wuhan - coronavirus

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

It just blows my mind that some places are keeping track of things like this, and I wish I was there. In my state the Attorney General just wrote to all the health departments and school boards etc, threatening to sue them if they enforce any mandates, or impose quarantine, or contact trace anyone.  I really can’t believe that is so and that I just wrote that. I can’t do another round of this. If the Omicron variant proves to not be very mild and non dangerous I am quitting  my job. 

I think that’s fair. And I’m so sorry that you are in the situation of having to think about it.

[Laura Corin]

3 hours ago, KSera said:

I've been trying to find more info about the lateral flow aspect of this (the rest of it doesn't surprise me at this point, unfortunately). The only thing I could find is one statement by someone that said something that was ambiguous and I could read two ways--either they all took a lateral flow 24 hours before, or some of them did. I would like to know if the person who spread it to the others was one of the ones who took a lateral flow and if it was a full 24 hours before. We've been planning to have a family gathering for Christmas, and rapid tests before are one of the key pieces we had planned, so if we are still considering doing it (no idea at this point), it sounds really important that everyone do it immediately before the gathering. No one should be relying on a lateral flow done a full 24 hours earlier.

 

In the video I think Spector says that everyone took a test but some of the reports say 'most'. And it doesn't mention timing.

I agree that tests should be immediately before gathering.  I test a few hours before I go to visit my mum each week - tests are free.

[regentrude]

8 hours ago, TCB said:

In my state the Attorney General just wrote to all the health departments and school boards etc, threatening to sue them if they enforce any mandates, or impose quarantine, or contact trace anyone.  I really can’t believe that is so and that I just wrote that. I can’t do another round of this. If the Omicron variant proves to not be very mild and non dangerous I am quitting  my job. 

It's insane. We may be in the same state; our a$$hole AG did this, too.

(At least one school district fired back and told him he doesn't have authority over the *school districts* and it's against the law to have a child attend who might carry a contagious disease)

I am so sick of the blatant disregard for human life certain politicians display openly. Doesn't matter that folks die, just as long as they get their tin foil hat constituents to re-elect them. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by regentrude

[regentrude]

6 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

 I test a few hours before I go to visit my mum each week - tests are free.

When I was in Germany recently,  I could buy self tests for 1.50 euro in every drugstore. ( there are also free tests available through certain agencies). Here, it's over $10 per self test ($24 for two-pack). No wonder people don't routinely test before gathering.

Edited December 12, 2021 by regentrude

[catz]

Just now, regentrude said:

When I was in Germany recently,  I could buy self tests for 1.50 euro ( there are also free tests available through certain agencies). Here, it's over $10 per self test. No wonder people don't routinely test before gathering.

I think it's pretty shameful we haven't gotten to a place where we can't just grab a box of rapids for a reasonable price.  Still debating what to do for the holidays and if it were easy for all of us to get rapid tests, it would be a no brainer.  

[wathe]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

When I was in Germany recently,  I could buy self tests for 1.50 euro in every drugstore. ( there are also free tests available through certain agencies). Here, it's over $10 per self test ($24 for two-pack). No wonder people don't routinely test before gathering.

Access to RATs is a big hot-button issue here now.  We can't even buy them to take home.  We can pay $40 to have one done at a pharmacy. There is no other means of general public access. It's ridiculous.

Many have been distributed free by govt to businesses to test their employees, and some will be sent home with school children over the holidays,  But no access for the rest of us.  

PCR tests are free, but one has to qualify (symptoms or close contact), and they take a day or two to result.

ETA that public pressure  and media pressure to improve public access to RATs has been intense in the past week or so, so hopefully we will se change here soon.   #freetherats!

Edited December 12, 2021 by wathe

[Dmmetler]

On 12/10/2021 at 7:27 PM, Tenaj said:

I wondered the same thing this week when I was out wandering in and out of stores with my mask on. That's ok, maybe people will stay away from me 😂

I've wondered that as well. Oh, well....

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

It's insane. We may be in the same state; our a$$hole AG did this, too.

(At least one school district fired back and told him he doesn't have authority over the *school districts* and it's against the law to have a child attend who might carry a contagious disease)

I am so sick of the blatant disregard for human life certain politicians display openly. Doesn't matter that folks die, just as long as they get their tin foil hat constituents to re-elect them. 

Our big local district sued under ADA, with the help of a couple of very savvy civil/disability Rights attorneys and several parents of kids who are medically compromised AND have IEPs that simply could not be met virtually, pointing out that not requiring masking was excluding their kids from school and was an ADA violation. They won, even in a heavily conservative circuit. Unfortunately, I've already heard school choice folks using said case as a rationale for why parents should be able to send their kids to private school on public money. 

The upshot is that currently, I cannot require students to mask, even in my public parks and rec setting, and even though it is literally not possible to socially distance (and that doesn't really do much anyway). I'm triple vaxxed, running air purifiers, the center used CARES funds to upgrade the HVAC so we have much better ventilation, and will be masking. I'm off for the next month, and am keeping the nuclear option of quitting in my back pocket. If I had a ton of money to burn, I would be tempted to sue under ADA as well. Unfortunately, my ADA attorney brother isn't admitted to the bar in TN. 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Dmmetler

[MEmama]

50 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I've wondered that as well. Oh, well....

I assume the opposite, if it makes you feel better.
 

I figure I can trust people who mask, but if someone can’t be bothered to do something so simple when out in public I assume they don't take any precautions at all. I won’t stand behind an unmasked person in the grocery line, and will leave an aisle if not everyone is masked. Might be overkill on my part, but I want no part in sharing the same air as someone who isn’t taking public health seriously. 

[TexasProud]

6 minutes ago, MEmama said:

I assume the opposite, if it makes you feel better.
 

I figure I can trust people who mask, but if someone can’t be bothered to do something so simple when out in public I assume they don't take any precautions at all. I won’t stand behind an unmasked person in the grocery line, and will leave an aisle if not everyone is masked. Might be overkill on my part, but I want no part in sharing the same air as someone who isn’t taking public health seriously. 

LOL. You would have nowhere to stand in my neck of the woods. I am the only one masked, though I know many are vaccinated. 

[kbutton]

12 hours ago, TCB said:

It just blows my mind that some places are keeping track of things like this, and I wish I was there. In my state the Attorney General just wrote to all the health departments and school boards etc, threatening to sue them if they enforce any mandates, or impose quarantine, or contact trace anyone.  I really can’t believe that is so and that I just wrote that. I can’t do another round of this. If the Omicron variant proves to not be very mild and non dangerous I am quitting  my job. 

Hugs. I wouldn’t blame you. 

[KSera]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

When I was in Germany recently,  I could buy self tests for 1.50 euro in every drugstore. ( there are also free tests available through certain agencies). Here, it's over $10 per self test ($24 for two-pack). No wonder people don't routinely test before gathering.

I agree it’s ridiculous the state of rapid testing in the US (though even worse in Canda!). I did want to share that Walmart sells the rapid tests for $14 a box of two. That’s still much too expensive and puts it out of reach of those that live paycheck to paycheck, but hopefully that helps some for now. I ordered online and got enough to qualify for free shipping. 

[wathe]

Just now, KSera said:

I agree it’s ridiculous the state of rapid testing in the US (though even worse in Canda!). I did want to share that Walmart sells the rapid tests for $14 a box of two. That’s still much too expensive and puts it out of reach of those that live paycheck to paycheck, but hopefully that helps some for now. I ordered online and got enough to qualify for free shipping. 

RATs are distributed differently, province by province - because healthcare is a provincial responsibility.  The Federal government has provided millions to the provinces for distribution.  Some provinces are doing a fabulous job with distribution (ie Nova Scotia)  and some are NOT. No coincidentally, I don't think, those with right/populist leaning governments are not making general public access free or easy - (because free tests might cut into your pharmacy chain owner buddy's income perhaps........)

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, wathe said:

RATs are distributed differently, province by province - because healthcare is a provincial responsibility.  The Federal government has provided millions to the provinces for distribution.  Some provinces are doing a fabulous job with distribution (ie Nova Scotia)  and some are NOT. No coincidentally, I don't think, those with right/populist leaning governments are not making general public access free or easy - (because free tests might cut into your pharmacy chain owner buddy's income perhaps........)

I almost put Ontario, but then I was lazy because I would’ve had to go back and verify that Ontario is the one that all the #FreetheRATs stuff is coming from, so I said Canada 😳. Is Ontario the correct province?

[wathe]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

I almost put Ontario, but then I was lazy because I would’ve had to go back and verify that Ontario is the one that all the #FreetheRATs stuff is coming from, so I said Canada 😳. Is Ontario the correct province?

One of, yes.

#FreetheRATS!!!!

[Kanin]

14 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I do wish I'd stop feeling that people on this forum have more sense than the people making decisions, though, lol. 

Same!

I mean, well done all of us, but really? We can't be (shouldn't be!) the smartest bunch around 😝

[mumof6]

2 hours ago, wathe said:

Access to RATs is a big hot-button issue here now.  We can't even buy them to take home.  We can pay $40 to have one done at a pharmacy. There is no other means of general public access. It's ridiculous.

Many have been distributed free by govt to businesses to test their employees, and some will be sent home with school children over the holidays,  But no access for the rest of us.  

PCR tests are free, but one has to qualify (symptoms or close contact), and they take a day or two to result.

ETA that public pressure  and media pressure to improve public access to RATs has been intense in the past week or so, so hopefully we will se change here soon.   #freetherats!

A friend is a high school secretary getting these tests ready to distribute next week. They were 250 short for their school and won’t be getting more. It is voluntary- I guess they are expecting 250 to refuse?

Meanwhile I got a rapid test in the parking lot of a restaurant yesterday so we (co-workers) could eat unmasked at the table! Come to a Christmas party! Come 15min early to get your rapid test!

 

[wathe]

12 minutes ago, mumof6 said:

A friend is a high school secretary getting these tests ready to distribute next week. They were 250 short for their school and won’t be getting more. It is voluntary- I guess they are expecting 250 to refuse?

Meanwhile I got a rapid test in the parking lot of a restaurant yesterday so we (co-workers) could eat unmasked at the table! Come to a Christmas party! Come 15min early to get your rapid test!

 

Right.  Distribution has been highly inequitable.

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

I agree it’s ridiculous the state of rapid testing in the US (though even worse in Canda!). I did want to share that Walmart sells the rapid tests for $14 a box of two. That’s still much too expensive and puts it out of reach of those that live paycheck to paycheck, but hopefully that helps some for now. I ordered online and got enough to qualify for free shipping. 

I did the same thing the other day and now I think I have enough to last us through the holiday gatherings.  They're over $10 more per box at CVS!

[KSera]

48 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I did the same thing the other day and now I think I have enough to last us through the holiday gatherings.  They're over $10 more per box at CVS!

That Somerset, UK outbreak in the people who all did lateral flow tests has me a bit uncertain about our plans now. I read several places that they did them 24 hours before though, which at least could explain it. I’d really like to know more about who was the index case and when they took theirs and what exactly the vaccine status was – – how long ago, etc.

[Matryoshka]

6 minutes ago, KSera said:

That Somerset, UK outbreak in the people who all did lateral flow tests has me a bit uncertain about our plans now. I read several places that they did them 24 hours before though, which at least could explain it. I’d really like to know more about who was the index case and when they took theirs and what exactly the vaccine status was – – how long ago, etc.

Yeah, me too. We've been doing the rapid tests just about an hour before gathering, as from what I'm understanding they're best at telling if you're contagious right now...

[ieta_cassiopeia]

4 hours ago, MEmama said:

I assume the opposite, if it makes you feel better.
 

I figure I can trust people who mask, but if someone can’t be bothered to do something so simple when out in public I assume they don't take any precautions at all. I won’t stand behind an unmasked person in the grocery line, and will leave an aisle if not everyone is masked. Might be overkill on my part, but I want no part in sharing the same air as someone who isn’t taking public health seriously. 

I insist on leaving two metres (or as close to that as possible) behind anyone not obviously masked (though I try to leave one metre behind masked people not in my social circle in any case).

My nearest attended test centre is shut due to weather for the winter and may not return. However, my local library has free test kits on the table by the front door (in smart boxes to take home) and my workplace has a big container full of hygeine-sealed test kit components for DIY lateral flow testing. I test myself once a week despite not being in a group that's required to do tests (frontline medical staff where I work must do three tests a week, one of which must be a PCR test, and the places where most of my other close relatives work require everyone to do likewise regardless of role). Nobody is charged for any of it, though I prefer to use my workplace's test kits because it's clearly purchasing in bulk and that's cheaper for them than using the boxed ones are likely to be for the library.

I am concerned that my same-level colleagues are still reluctant to test. (My manager, on the other hand, is pleased that at least one of his subordinates is routinely testing of their own volition).

The most recent statistic for my local hospital is 11 in hospital at some point during the week before last (2% of capacity if all present at the same time), 6 of whom were/are in the ICU (50% of capacity if all present at the same time) and 1 death (the first my hospital's had of COVID for three weeks). The reprieve will likely not last long but everyone's mood visibly lifted this week as they realised they can get more of the elective treatments done than expected.

Lateral flow tests are definitely best at telling you if you have it right now (they can't predict the future and don't know your past), but if you and those around you avoid public places between when you take the test and when you go, it will most likely be accurate enough. (Nonetheless, I'd take a lateral flow test each in your luggage, and use it if someone has to break the bubble during the gathering to get milk or something. The test materials are typically valid for 2 years, so if you don't use them this gathering, they'll still be available if you need them in future).

Numbers of people masking is visibly dropping in some shops even though they're legally required for anyone not exempt. You can tell the places that enforced the rules well before or simply attracted cautious types, because everyone or nearly everyone expected to mask indeed masks in those places.

Due to COVID-related hygiene issues, toys cannot be donated to hospital this year and people are instead being asked to donate chocolate for those children spending Christmas at the local hospital. (Tinsel is banned, but for different hygiene reasons).

Also, I'm excited because tomorrow... ...er, Wednesday (per Laura Corin's comment), I can make a booking for my COVID booster! Everyone else in my family's already had one due to either their age or their occupation, and I don't want to be the odd one out any more

Edited December 12, 2021 by ieta_cassiopeia

[Laura Corin]

The UK is at over 30 percent of population boosted - over forties up to now - and is opening up for all adults to book from Wednesday.  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/12/uk-booster-jab-rollout-to-increase-to-1m-a-day-to-battle-omicron-tidal-wave?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Boris Johnson is in political trouble - at least his distraction technique could have some practical benefit.

 

[Laura Corin]

Meanwhile.

BBC News - Covid: First people in UK hospitals with Omicron variant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59627188

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Ausmumof3]

1290 cases for VIC and 2 deaths.

536 for NSW 0 deaths.

Queensland border is officially open.  There’s a lot of pressure here to reduce quarantine for Omicron close contacts from 14 to 7 days.

WA is expected to make a border announcement today.

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

1290 cases for VIC and 2 deaths.

536 for NSW 0 deaths.

Queensland border is officially open.  There’s a lot of pressure here to reduce quarantine for Omicron close contacts from 14 to 7 days.

WA is expected to make a border announcement today.

I think we're in strife, unfortunately. Hopefully booster timing will be shortened again. 

If WA has any sense, they'll keep those borders shut tight for at least another few months. 

[lewelma]

We are supposed to open to Australia in mid January. There is a lot of talk about delaying this due to the lack of information on Omicron. 

So far, we have not had a single case of Omicron detected in NZ's quarantine facilities. 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.garvan.org.au/news-events/news/3d-analysis-of-sars-cov-2-reveals-clues-on-virus-tactics
 

I heard a pretty interesting talk by this guy recently. (Australian researcher Sean O’Donoghue) They’ve done detailed analysis of all the proteins in the virus trying to map what each does.  There’s still quite a chunk that we don’t know what they’re for.  Some mimic human cell parts? to help the virus hide. 

This is preomicron.  They have also built an open available software tool where you can go and look at the structure etc.

[Ausmumof3]

https://aquaria.ws/covid
 

and the models here.

[Ausmumof3]

9 cases of Omicron in NSW. It’s also suspected that some cases from a cluster linked to a nightclub in Newcastle with a cluster of 84 are Omicron though not yet confirmed.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

54 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

9 cases of Omicron in NSW. It’s also suspected that some cases from a cluster linked to a nightclub in Newcastle with a cluster of 84 are Omicron though not yet confirmed.

And our (QLD) border has just opened up 😬

I'm nervous about this. I feel like we've been really really really well looked after for almost two years, and now this feels almost reckless. I reckon if Christmas wasn't around the corner it would be different. 

Our boosters are only just rolling out, and suddenly we have 1000s of people from hotspots allowed in.

I realise there are some safety nets in place, but those nets have holes.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

But in happier news, I've just booked my booster, now that it's been reduced to 5 months 👍

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, chocolate-chip chooky said:

But in happier news, I've just booked my booster, now that it's been reduced to 5 months 👍

Hooray 🎉🎉🎉

[Ausmumof3]

52 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

And our (QLD) border has just opened up 😬

I'm nervous about this. I feel like we've been really really really well looked after for almost two years, and now this feels almost reckless. I reckon if Christmas wasn't around the corner it would be different. 

Our boosters are only just rolling out, and suddenly we have 1000s of people from hotspots allowed in.

I realise there are some safety nets in place, but those nets have holes.

Yeah.  Totally get it! And you will have more influx than us because tourism.

[Ausmumof3]

13 cases here today. No details as yet. 

[KSera]

7 hours ago, KSera said:

That Somerset, UK outbreak in the people who all did lateral flow tests has me a bit uncertain about our plans now. I read several places that they did them 24 hours before though, which at least could explain it. I’d really like to know more about who was the index case and when they took theirs and what exactly the vaccine status was – – how long ago, etc.

I'm still trying to track down more info on this, and from what I'm finding, it sounds to me like the only report about this outbreak is via the Zoe app. I thought it was identified on the app and then was followed up on and the reporting was about official follow up, but that does not appear to be the case. So, someone logged into Zoe and reported this outbreak had happened after they attended a Christmas party under the conditions they gave (everyone vaccinated, and some [I wonder how many] had a booster) and that 16 of 18 of them were testing positive. That at least has me putting a little more of an asterisk next to this as far as not changing our plans based on this one report. I've also read repeatedly that they took the rapid tests "24 hours before" which I think is an important cautionary for people not to rely on tests taken that far ahead of time.

[Ausmumof3]

This sounds hopeful.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59639007
 

First UK death with Omicron variant 

[mommyoffive]

Omicron Update: Dec 13 - by Katelyn Jetelina (substack.com)

[Ausmumof3]

Weird looks like my post didn’t go through this morning.  NSW had a big jump yesterday up to 804 cases. VIC pretty steady at 1189. 
 

We’re building an MRNA manufacturing facility - yay.

Press conference with the PM today emphasised we’re not going backwards. Quote of the day “We're not letting Omicron take us back, though. We've decided as a country to live with this virus and Australians have worked so hard for that.” hm well no.  I worked hard to hopefully be able to live without the virus thank you.

Constant emphasis on the high double vax rate. No acknowledgment that Omicron means we need boosters for that to work. 
 

[Melissa Louise]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Weird looks like my post didn’t go through this morning.  NSW had a big jump yesterday up to 804 cases. VIC pretty steady at 1189. 
 

We’re building an MRNA manufacturing facility - yay.

Press conference with the PM today emphasised we’re not going backwards. Quote of the day “We're not letting Omicron take us back, though. We've decided as a country to live with this virus and Australians have worked so hard for that.” hm well no.  I worked hard to hopefully be able to live without the virus thank you.

Constant emphasis on the high double vax rate. No acknowledgment that Omicron means we need boosters for that to work. 
 

I really feel for all the HCWs about to get hit with another wave. 

Worried about dd travelling in two weeks with Omicron 🔺and only two shots AZ. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

I really feel for all the HCWs about to get hit with another wave. 

Worried about dd travelling in two weeks with Omicron 🔺and only two shots AZ. 

Can she get an early booster?  Some have been able to through GPs for overseas travel. Not sure about interstate though.

[bookbard]

Kind of freaking out at that big jump in numbers in NSW.

Booked my kids vaccination but haven't mentioned it to my other half yet. I will wait till a day or so beforehand I think and then just say that I've booked it. Hopefully by then the increasing numbers will make him feel better about it. 

Can book in a booster from mid Jan I think. Considering seeing if there's anywhere with Moderna. 

[Melissa in Australia]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-14/newcastle-covid-outbreak-could-become-highest-transmission-event/100697836

no masks, loud music, singing  confined space.  650 in attendance, so far 150 have tested positive and others in the community have also tested positive connected to the people that were there

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Can she get an early booster?  Some have been able to through GPs for overseas travel. Not sure about interstate though.

Honestly not sure, but I doubt it.

I'm hearing people at 5 months are struggling in Melbourne to get appts before mid-Jan. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Weird looks like my post didn’t go through this morning.  NSW had a big jump yesterday up to 804 cases. VIC pretty steady at 1189. 
 

We’re building an MRNA manufacturing facility - yay.

Press conference with the PM today emphasised we’re not going backwards. Quote of the day “We're not letting Omicron take us back, though. We've decided as a country to live with this virus and Australians have worked so hard for that.” hm well no.  I worked hard to hopefully be able to live without the virus thank you.

Constant emphasis on the high double vax rate. No acknowledgment that Omicron means we need boosters for that to work. 
 

Same. I feel like we've all worked so hard to avoid it. Hard lockdowns, restrictions, closed borders etc. I embraced all of that so that we have no covid here. I've felt that my family has been safe.

Why are 'we' suddenly so okay with living with it? I wonder how many of us actually are.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Honestly not sure, but I doubt it.

I'm hearing people at 5 months are struggling in Melbourne to get appts before mid-Jan. 

I called our GP and asked if my high-risk daughter could have her booster early, and they said yes. Worth asking?

[Melissa Louise]

20 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I called our GP and asked if my high-risk daughter could have her booster early, and they said yes. Worth asking?

Worth asking, but neither is high risk  (luckily, of course). I think I'll express post them some really good masks for the flight. 

 

 

[Arcadia]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Press conference with the PM today emphasised we’re not going backwards. Quote of the day “We're not letting Omicron take us back, though. We've decided as a country to live with this virus and Australians have worked so hard for that.” hm well no.  I worked hard to hopefully be able to live without the virus thank you.

 

44 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

Same. I feel like we've all worked so hard to avoid it. Hard lockdowns, restrictions, closed borders etc. I embraced all of that so that we have no covid here. I've felt that my family has been safe.

Why are 'we' suddenly so okay with living with it? I wonder how many of us actually are.

That was what Singapore govt declared months ago. Think they say that the economy cannot sustain prolong lockdowns. Next general election is a few years away.

ETA: I meant lockdown as in international tourism, not internal lockdown.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Arcadia

[chocolate-chip chooky]

2 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

That was what Singapore govt declared months ago. Think they say that the economy cannot sustain prolong lockdowns. Next general election is a few years away.

We actually haven't had a lockdown here (QLD) for a while now. I think the last one was in July? Any scares since then have been stamped out quickly with excellent contact tracing.

I think it's all about opening the borders, but goodness, the timing. They opened the borders yesterday, just when cases are going up in other parts of Australia.

And with omicron still being an unknown beast, it just feels too much too fast for me. It's like we've gone from super-cautious to reckless overnight.