wuhan - coronavirus

[Ausmumof3]

31 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Everything about this drug looks super promising *except* that  there is no indication of how soon this would have to be given to be effective. In the tests on ferrets with SARS2 it seems that the drug had to be given within 12 hours of infection (that's initial exposure, not the appearance of symptoms). The researchers mention that since disease progression is slower in humans, the window may be larger, but no mention of how much larger. Since many people have no idea they are even infected until several days after exposure, human studies are obviously needed to see if it will still work if it's taken, say, 4-5 days after exposure.

Even if it doesn't work well at the point when most people would test positive, it might be an effective prophylactic in cases where there is a high risk of exposure. In the mouse/RSV studies, for example, it worked just as well if it was taken within 24 hours before exposure.

Thanks.  I really appreciate your ability to interpret and get to the crux of these studies.

[Ausmumof3]

Locally one of our mystery cases turned out to be false positive and the other has been linked to interstate. So all cases are now linked to the one cluster. We didn’t get a proper press conference today and there was no mention whatsoever of Omicron in what we did get. So looks like we are just ignoring it and hoping for the best.

[kokotg]

3 hours ago, lewelma said:

This was written on my home ed board in reference to people complaining about the vaccine passports being discrimination. It was stated in a way that I have never heard before and really spoke to me.

"*Actual* *real* discrimination is when disabled people are excluded from spaces because of an inadequate health response which does not work to take their wellbeing into account. There is a a lot of abelism in this thread and it would serve us all well if we could all check our [health] privilege."

 

Yes, this. 

I'm also tired of hearing about the 1% of nurses at some hospital or other who are going to quit over vaccine requirements, with no thought given at all to how many might quit over being denied a safe work environment if their co-workers AREN'T vaccinated. Or how many people won't go into health care or education or whatever at all now that they see how little regard many people give to the lives or health of people in those fields. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by kokotg

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Locally one of our mystery cases turned out to be false positive and the other has been linked to interstate. So all cases are now linked to the one cluster. We didn’t get a proper press conference today and there was no mention whatsoever of Omicron in what we did get. So looks like we are just ignoring it and hoping for the best.

Whats your best guess about the border? Ds' g/friend isn't booked to leave till the 21 st, and I'm thinking she should probably try to bring it forward. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Whats your best guess about the border? Ds' g/friend isn't booked to leave till the 21 st, and I'm thinking she should probably try to bring it forward. 

There’s been basically nothing about it today.  I’d be super hesitant to say.  My gut feel based on absolutely nothing is that they’re trying to push through it but if bad data comes in about omicron they will shut down with little warning.  They have already been moving many more people than expected into hotel quarantine which is causing a bit of angst, apparently including people who had prior approval for home quarantine.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

“We are very concerned (about Omicron). We’re meeting on a very regular basis and we don’t take any option off the table. 

Professor Spurrier came to the directions meeting with a recommendation to close the borders, which would be the most risk-averse approach we could take. 

It was a consensus decision, supported by everybody in the directions committee, that we step through this as gradually as possible.”

@Melissa Louise

This is the quote from Marshall from the press conference today which is obviously horribly inconclusive.

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

“We are very concerned (about Omicron). We’re meeting on a very regular basis and we don’t take any option off the table. 

Professor Spurrier came to the directions meeting with a recommendation to close the borders, which would be the most risk-averse approach we could take. 

It was a consensus decision, supported by everybody in the directions committee, that we step through this as gradually as possible.”

@Melissa Louise

This is the quote from Marshall from the press conference today which is obviously horribly inconclusive.

I'm just grateful we're not trying to second guess the NSW - VIC border as well.

All I can do is give L a heads up that she might want to squeak through sooner rather than later. Ty!

[Ausmumof3]

18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I'm just grateful we're not trying to second guess the NSW - VIC border as well.

All I can do is give L a heads up that she might want to squeak through sooner rather than later. Ty!

Yeah, it’s so hard to know hey.  At least she’s not likely to have issues going back the other way. 

[Laura Corin]

1 in 4 'colds' in the UK are probably actually Covid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-59545557?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=61add4ff531c2c47333600f7%26One in four colds actually Covid - virus app founder%262021-12-06T09%3A31%3A43.523Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:4640b162-5c05-4460-a483-91b46dea5756&pinned_post_asset_id=61add4ff531c2c47333600f7&pinned_post_type=share

[Kassia]

I have elective surgery scheduled for Wednesday with a one night overnight stay.  I got a call from the surgeon's office today saying that the hospital is full of covid patients and will not allow surgeries that require an overnight stay.  They gave me the option of going home the same day or canceling.  😞  As of now I'm planning on going ahead with the surgery and coming home the same day but I'm really upset about it.  OTOH, I'm grateful to have the option.  

Our small county hospital has been full for a while but this is a bigger hospital in an area where I thought there were fewer Covid patients.  I just hope they don't cancel before Wednesday.

 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Kassia said:

I have elective surgery scheduled for Wednesday with a one night overnight stay.  I got a call from the surgeon's office today saying that the hospital is full of covid patients and will not allow surgeries that require an overnight stay. 

Oh darn it. I am sorry. This sucks. And that's what the "but it's my personal choice" folks can't get into their thick skulls.

[Acadie]

2 hours ago, Kassia said:

I have elective surgery scheduled for Wednesday with a one night overnight stay.  I got a call from the surgeon's office today saying that the hospital is full of covid patients and will not allow surgeries that require an overnight stay.  They gave me the option of going home the same day or canceling.  😞  As of now I'm planning on going ahead with the surgery and coming home the same day but I'm really upset about it.  OTOH, I'm grateful to have the option.  

Our small county hospital has been full for a while but this is a bigger hospital in an area where I thought there were fewer Covid patients.  I just hope they don't cancel before Wednesday.

 

I hope your surgery goes forward as you wish and that coming home ends up being a safer option for you, with good support. Do you have a sense from the surgeon's office what kind of support you might need, and family or a friend who can be available to help out? 

[Kassia]

34 minutes ago, Acadie said:

I hope your surgery goes forward as you wish and that coming home ends up being a safer option for you, with good support. Do you have a sense from the surgeon's office what kind of support you might need, and family or a friend who can be available to help out? 

DH will be home with me.  What I'm scared of is that I have a very difficult time waking up from anesthesia and I'm afraid to come home practically unconscious.  Especially since I'm having foot surgery and can't put any weight on my foot and I can only get into the house using stairs.  I just can't imagine being very groggy and trying to get in the house and up the stairs with only one foot. 

With my last surgery, my respiratory rate dropped and DH and a nurse had to sit with me in recovery for hours nudging me constantly and encouraging me to cough to bring it back up.  

I'm also worried about pain relief since I'd be getting it by IV in the hospital but orally at home.  I don't want to be nauseated and it won't be as effective as it would be with IV.  Plus I'd just be more comfortable in a hospital bed where it's easy to elevate the foot of the bed, icing, etc.  And DH would get a little bit of a break before having to take care of me.  But I'm mostly nervous about actually waking up enough to get home and in the house.  Maybe I should be worried about the pain as well.  😞  It's major surgery - total foot reconstruction that is expected to take three hours.

[Bambam]

1 minute ago, Kassia said:

I'm also worried about pain relief since I'd be getting it by IV in the hospital but orally at home.  I don't want to be nauseated and it won't be as effective as it would be with IV.  Plus I'd just be more comfortable in a hospital bed where it's easy to elevate the foot of the bed, icing, etc.  And DH would get a little bit of a break before having to take care of me.  But I'm mostly nervous about actually waking up enough to get home and in the house.  Maybe I should be worried about the pain as well.  😞  It's major surgery - total foot reconstruction that is expected to take three hours.

Pain meds often make me nauseated. I ask for a script for something to help with that. I may need it or I may not, but I want it there immediately in case I need it.  Maybe you can ask for a paper script and then only have your DH fill it if you need it? 

[regentrude]

18 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 What I'm scared of is that I have a very difficult time waking up from anesthesia and I'm afraid to come home practically unconscious. ...

With my last surgery, my respiratory rate dropped and DH and a nurse had to sit with me in recovery for hours nudging me constantly and encouraging me to cough to bring it back up.  

I'm also worried about pain relief since I'd be getting it by IV in the hospital but orally at home.  I don't want to be nauseated and it won't be as effective as it would be with IV.  

They can't discharge you if you haven't woken properly from surgery, can they? Won't they have to keep you in the observation room until certain vitals establish? (I doo have a tough time waking up; it takes longer than with other patients)

I get very nauseous from anesthesia and can't tolerate narcotics.
Last surgery, I mentioned it to the doctor beforehand, and they put something into my IV to alleviate nausea. The other time, I called because I was so nauseous, and they sent a prescription for promethizine.

Good luck. I am sorry you are in that position. Can you recruit an additional person to take you home so they and your DH can safely put you to bed?
 

[El...]

I'm sorry, Kassim. That sounds extra stressful. 

One thing to consider might be asking for your dh to get pain and anti-nausea meds for you before you leave the hospital. I and family members have had occasions when hospital pharmacy was the only one to whom the prescription went, but then they were closed for the night or the weekend, and it was a huge problem to get the prescription sent elsewhere or something else prescribed instead. I wouldn't leave without both meds in hand. I'm sure they can do that for you.

[Kassia]

11 minutes ago, elroisees said:

\

One thing to consider might be asking for your dh to get pain and anti-nausea meds for you before you leave the hospital.

I do have it set up that the hospital pharmacy will bring any prescriptions to be before I'm discharged.  And we have Zofran and percocet here from DH's recent ER visit for a kidney stone.

 

 

28 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Last surgery, I mentioned it to the doctor beforehand, and they put something into my IV to alleviate nausea. 

Good luck. I am sorry you are in that position. Can you recruit an additional person to take you home so they and your DH can safely put you to bed?
 

I always ask the anesthesiologist for something to help with nausea.  Sometimes I wonder if that's what is causing me to have so much trouble waking up.  We don't have anyone else to help get me in and DH has a sensitive back (I suspect a herniated disc) so we'll have to be very careful.  

 

 

47 minutes ago, Bambam said:

Pain meds often make me nauseated. I ask for a script for something to help with that. I may need it or I may not, but I want it there immediately in case I need it.  Maybe you can ask for a paper script and then only have your DH fill it if you need it? 

They told me the hospital pharmacy will get my prescription to me before discharge.  If there's a problem, we have Zofran and Percocet here from DH's recent ER visit.  

 

[Ausmumof3]

Might sound a bit like overkill but if you get really stuck local volunteer fire brigade or storm emergency people may help you out.  They do get a few calls of that nature here and quite often get asked to help paramedics with lifting people etc. It might be a different situation there though.  I really hope all goes as smoothly as possible.

[Pawz4me]

19 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

I always ask the anesthesiologist for something to help with nausea.  Sometimes I wonder if that's what is causing me to have so much trouble waking up.

 

I don't know if what they can put in your IV makes your groggy or not. When I had my hysterectomy many years ago I told them I get terribly nauseous with general anesthesia, so supposedly they put something in my IV. But I still woke up feeling awful and asked for something. Then they gave me Phenergan (promethazine) which . . . yeah, it made me hugely sleepy. I could NOT wake up.

[Kassia]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I don't know if what they can put in your IV makes your groggy or not. When I had my hysterectomy many years ago I told them I get terribly nauseous with general anesthesia, so supposedly they put something in my IV. But I still woke up feeling awful and asked for something. Then they gave me Phenergan (promethazine) which . . . yeah, it made me hugely sleepy. I could NOT wake up.

Phenergan is definitely stronger than Zofran as far as making you sleepy!  

[Ausmumof3]

Things are just ticking along here at the same pace. 260 cases in NSW and a bit over 1,100 in Vic.  Maybe slightly up on a couple of weeks ago but very gradual. NSW has 31 cases of omicron, no hospitalisations so far but it’s probably too soon for them to have hit that stage. QLD are opening next week.

[prairiewindmomma]

Talk to the anesthesiologist tomorrow to see if they can tweak the blend they use. Two of us always have unique tweaks for us. Sounds like you might benefit from having Zofran run and maybe backing down on sedating drugs that make you nauseous like fentanyl and running ketamine or something instead. YMMV but I would tell them what you told us….

[bookbard]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Things are just ticking along here at the same pace. 260 cases in NSW and a bit over 1,100 in Vic.  Maybe slightly up on a couple of weeks ago but very gradual. NSW has 31 cases of omicron, no hospitalisations so far but it’s probably too soon for them to have hit that stage. QLD are opening next week.

Really hoping Omicron ends up being mild.

Went into the city today  and everyone wearing masks, everywhere asking to see check in and vax certificate. It was SO hot wearing a mask (very humid), we ended up going home earlier than planned, I just couldn't cope! I really feel for people having to wear a mask in the heat. I wear one at work but at least I can turn on the air con. 

[Melissa Louise]

When do masks come off in NSW? Is it next week? 

[Melissa Louise]

I just bought better masks for ds. He works further into the red zone of our LGA and cases are ticking up there. I'm telling him he has to keep masking even when the mandate lifts. At least he is in air con. 

[kbutton]

7 hours ago, Kassia said:

Phenergan is definitely stronger than Zofran as far as making you sleepy!  

IIRC, phenergan suppresses your respiration, so if yours already goes low, you might want zofran instead (if that's safe). 

[Kassia]

3 hours ago, kbutton said:

IIRC, phenergan suppresses your respiration, so if yours already goes low, you might want zofran instead (if that's safe). 

That is correct.  They wouldn't give me phenergan at the hospital for that reason.  They wouldn't even give me pain meds.  I can't have morphine anyway because it makes me itch and the Dilaudid I was supposed to have suppresses respiration.  It was awful!  

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Kassia said:

That is correct.  They wouldn't give me phenergan at the hospital for that reason.  They wouldn't even give me pain meds.  I can't have morphine anyway because it makes me itch and the Dilaudid I was supposed to have suppresses respiration.  It was awful!  

 

Dilaudid is in the same class of opioids as morphine. I am surprised that you could have had it if you are allergic to morphine. 

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Dilaudid is in the same class of opioids as morphine. I am surprised that you could have had it if you are allergic to morphine. 

I had the morphine in an epidural when it made me itch. When I get it by IV I'm okay but dilaudid is stronger so that's why they gave that to me by IV (I think).  

 

[Ausmumof3]

https://sigallab.net/
 

Preprint only paper here showing partial escape from Pfizer with Omicron.

Sorry I can’t get the actual paper to link but if you scroll down it’s under pre-prints.

[Ausmumof3]

1312 cases and five deaths for Vic.

403 cases 1 death for NSW.

Definitely seems to be a gradual trend up now though with day to day wobbles higher and lower.

[Ausmumof3]

this was the Twitter comment from the author on the immune escape paper- so seems like while it’s not ideal it’s not as bad as it could be

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[KSera]

12 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

this was the Twitter comment from the author on the immune escape paper- so seems like while it’s not ideal it’s not as bad as it could be

 

 

The other thing from what I’m reading, is that while it shows significant reduction in neutralization, that’s after two vaccine doses, and three doses boost neutralization by a similar amount that this variant decreases it. So it seems possible that boosted versus omicron might be similar to two doses versus previous strains (clear as mud?). Also, this is pseudovirus in a lab and there are other things besides antibodies at play. So we won’t know what it does in the real world until more time has gone past.

[Ausmumof3]

And a second very early analysis on Omicron and vaccine effectiveness.  Seems like at this point it’s reduced but not gone which is good news.  It also fits with the demographic getting infected most in South Africa being younger (lower vaccine rates) although there can be other explanations for that. 
 

I’m thinking though given the surge of cases if it’s not entirely immune escape so much it must be quite a bit more infectious?

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

The other thing from what I’m reading, is that while it shows significant reduction in neutralization, that’s after two vaccine doses, and three doses boost neutralization by a similar amount that this variant decreases it. So it seems possible that boosted versus omicron might be similar to two doses versus previous strains (clear as mud?). Also, this is pseudovirus in a lab and there are other things besides antibodies at play. So we won’t know what it does in the real world until more time has gone past.

Yeah.  I must admit patience is not my strong point right now.  I know we need to wait but still hanging off every scrap of data!

[KSera]

16 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’m thinking though given the surge of cases if it’s not entirely immune escape so much it must be quite a bit more infectious?

All the analyses I’ve seen are predicting that it is much more infectious. Possibly as much as measles. 
 

 

15 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yeah.  I must admit patience is not my strong point right now.  I know we need to wait but still hanging off every scrap of data!

I know! The data on severity out of South Africa is continuing to look encouraging. But I haven’t seen and would like to see is something comparing the age groups affected now versus with Delta. Because if they’re entirely different, then it’s apples and oranges and it’s too early to get overly hopeful based on the data so far.

Omicron’s less severe cases prompt cautious optimism in South Africa

[Syllieann]

36 minutes ago, KSera said:

The other thing from what I’m reading, is that while it shows significant reduction in neutralization, that’s after two vaccine doses, and three doses boost neutralization by a similar amount that this variant decreases it. So it seems possible that boosted versus omicron might be similar to two doses versus previous strains (clear as mud?). Also, this is pseudovirus in a lab and there are other things besides antibodies at play. So we won’t know what it does in the real world until more time has gone past.

The anecdotal data from the Christmas parties in Norway and Spain have me feeling pretty pessimistic about boosters bringing it up.  At least it is looking less severe though.

[Laura Corin]

Omicron cases in the UK doubling every three days?

BBC News - Covid: Early signs Omicron spreads more easily, says No 10
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59563939

[Acadie]

Two lineages of Omicron, one of which does not show up on PCR, only genomic testing. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/07/scientists-find-stealth-version-of-omicron-not-identifiable-with-pcr-test-covid-variant

[Ausmumof3]

22 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Omicron cases in the UK doubling every three days?

BBC News - Covid: Early signs Omicron spreads more easily, says No 10
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59563939

Similar to the rate in South Africa I think? 

[Harriet Vane]

42 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Two lineages of Omicron, one of which does not show up on PCR, only genomic testing. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/07/scientists-find-stealth-version-of-omicron-not-identifiable-with-pcr-test-covid-variant

I am confused.

As I read the article, it seems to say pcr tests detect the presence of coronavirus but not necessarily the fact that it is omicron?
 

OR does this mean that omicron infections are not able to be detected by a standard pcr test at all? Meaning we need different tests…?

[KSera]

7 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I am confused.

As I read the article, it seems to say pcr tests detect the presence of coronavirus but not necessarily the fact that it is omicron?
 

OR does this mean that omicron infections are not able to be detected by a standard pcr test at all? Meaning we need different tests…?

What I’m understanding is that they still show up as Covid on PCR tests, but they don’t show the S gene drop out that has been being used as an indication of it being the omicron variant. Regular sequencing takes much longer, but this S gene drop out allows it to be immediately evident as omicron as far as I understand. So this other omicron variant isn’t doing that. 

[Ausmumof3]

22 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I am confused.

As I read the article, it seems to say pcr tests detect the presence of coronavirus but not necessarily the fact that it is omicron?
 

OR does this mean that omicron infections are not able to be detected by a standard pcr test at all? Meaning we need different tests…?

PCR can detect all the variants but not which specific variant it is.  Omicron often has a specific gene dropout thing that means it can be screened for with PCR but not conclusively identified as omicron variant that way. To 100pc confirm they do genomic testing. Only they’ve now realised that there’s a sub lineage of omicron that doesn’t have the s gene drop out so PCR is not longer a reliable screen.  It will detect you’ve got Covid but without genomic testing you can’t conclusively say it’s omicron.

[Ausmumof3]

The other thing I’ve seen noted not I don’t think we’ve discussed here is there seems to be more than typical variance within omicron itself suggesting it’s still evolving a lot or possibly there’s some kind of proof-reading error that makes it change faster than other variants.  No proof as yet just a few people making that observation.

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

What I’m understanding is that they still show up as Covid on PCR tests, but they don’t show the S gene drop out that has been being used as an indication of it being the omicron variant. Regular sequencing takes much longer, but this S gene drop out allows it to be immediately evident as omicron as far as I understand. So this other omicron variant isn’t doing that. 

Yes, that's my understanding too. PCR testing will identify Omicron as Covid positive, so we don't need different tests simply to test for Covid.

But initial reports said Omicron's S gene drop out could be identified with PCR testing. That seemed like a great boon because standard PCR equipment and apparatus could identify Omicron without additional sequencing. But it's actually not the case with the Omicron lineage that doesn't show S gene drop out. 

The take home message for me is we likely have far more Omicron cases than we've identified in the US. 

1 hour ago, Harriet Vane said:

I am confused.

As I read the article, it seems to say pcr tests detect the presence of coronavirus but not necessarily the fact that it is omicron?
 

OR does this mean that omicron infections are not able to be detected by a standard pcr test at all? Meaning we need different tests…?

 

[Mom_to3]

8 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Yes, that's my understanding too. PCR testing will identify Omicron as Covid positive, so we don't need different tests simply to test for Covid.

But initial reports said Omicron's S gene drop out could be identified with PCR testing. That seemed like a great boon because standard PCR equipment and apparatus could identify Omicron without additional sequencing. But it's actually not the case with the Omicron lineage that doesn't show S gene drop out. 

The take home message for me is we likely have far more Omicron cases than we've identified in the US. 

 

Considering how little we are doing about Omicron (or Delta) in the US, I don't really think it matters. Omicron may well take over very quickly here - we are doing (close to) nothing to stop it. I am sure it's already in every state.Identifying Omicron/contact tracing would only make a difference if it would change our strategy. We won't react until things are incredibly dire. You can see that I am incredibly pessimistic about our federal (and my state's) response so far...

[Ausmumof3]

Eek. we had our first omicron case from Zimbabwe today. 

[mommyoffive]

Omicron: We're getting (some) answers - by Katelyn Jetelina (substack.com)

[Melissa Louise]

44 people infected with Covid after a trivia night at the pub round the corner.

They would all have been vaccinated, unless the pub was breaking the rules (possible).

Don't think I'll be going anywhere over summer...

[Ausmumof3]

14 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

44 people infected with Covid after a trivia night at the pub round the corner.

They would all have been vaccinated, unless the pub was breaking the rules (possible).

Don't think I'll be going anywhere over summer...

Must admit I’m super nervous about the kids footy next year.