Handling a disrespectful office environment

[MEmama]

Please don't quote.

I'm struggling with how to handle an issue with my boss. He is routinely disrespectful to me--mostly in front of customers. He would insist it's "just teasing", but his words and dismissiveness leave me feeling small, and very angry at his glaring patriarchal attitude. Before I snap and walk out, I need some ideas of how to deal with him.

Some background. I like most aspects of my job. The hours (and number of hours) and flexibility are exactly what I need, I'm learning a lot of (transferable) skills, and overall I'm challenged yet comfortable in my role. I run the operation, and truly he would be lost without me if I left. It's just me and him in our daily operations; there isn't anyone else who knows what all I do or who could step in. He KNOWS this, and honestly I think he's nervous I'll leave. Unfortunately for him, when I do it be because he's forced me out with his condescending remarks.

I am not a person who likes to be teased, which is clearly obvious to anyone who knows me. I get flustered when people are so blatantly rude to me; I am not someone who can come up with pointed words or brush it aside with a witty comment. And increasingly I am aware at how much of it is because I am female and he feels he can get away with it; he would never talk to a man the way he talks to and about me in front of others. 

I don't know exactly what I'm looking for. Words of advice? Commiseration? Definitely not to be told to just suck it up. I'd like to learn how to deal with him like an adult, without losing my cool or walking out. Confrontation is not something I am comfortable with, but I need to say something that will get him to stop. He isn't unaware it bothers me; he's of the personality that gets kicks out of making other people feel bad.

How do you handle this kind of situation? 

[Tanaqui]

Honestly? He sounds utterly toxic and if he "gets kicks out of making other people feel bad", as you said, then I doubt there IS much you can say to stop him. (Unless you have some juicy blackmail, in which case I'd hold out for a raise.)

Sometimes, walking out IS acting like an adult. If you're really running the show then you must be able to get another, better job elsewhere, where people won't demean you for the lulz. And if you're bound and determined to find something to say to him, give it one last try, I'd say that.

[gardenmom5]

your description sounds more like bullying.  bullies will always come up with "i'm just teasing/joking" when their victim objects.  (re: victim blaming)  I'd also be very concerned he's more prone to do this in front of customers.  

there is nothing you can do to stop this (unless he does something for which you can have him arrested/file a legal complaint) - I would be looking for a new job.

[JustEm]

If you know he would be lost without you then you have the upper hand.  I would start a conversation with him being calm but frank about the issue and let him know you are more than willing to quit if the bullying does not stop.

[HomeAgain]

4 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

If you know he would be lost without you then you have the upper hand.  I would start a conversation with him being calm but frank about the issue and let him know you are more than willing to quit if the bullying does not stop.

This.
I'd probably drop a reminder in there that people don't quit their jobs, they quit their bosses, and his lack of boundary and respect is making that decision easy.  But if I said that, I'd mean it and be willing to leave.

[gardenmom5]

I would like to add one thing.  this isn't because you're female and your boss is male.  this is because your boss is a sob, and sobs will hire people they can bully.

 

[Tanaqui]

True, although he does seem to have decided that he can more easily bully women.

[MaBelle]

Ditto above.  Tell him to knock it off and if he doesn't just leave.  Who needs that kind of crap?

 

[EKS]

I'm curious how you know that your boss would never treat a man the way he's treating you if it's just you and him in the office?  

Some people really do show affection by teasing.  Since you don't give examples (and it's impossible to convey tone and backstory through the internet) it's hard to tell whether that is what is going on here.  

 

[gardenmom5]

 

22 minutes ago, EKS said:

I'm curious how you know that your boss would never treat a man the way he's treating you if it's just you and him in the office?  

this.  how he treats male customers doesn't count. male vendors don't count either. - he's not in a position of authority over either of them.  (and he needs them for his business, more than they need him.)

 

[mmasc]

I’m sorry. That really sucks. 😞 Could you give us an example of what he says in front of people? Does he act like that when it’s just the two of you? Has he done it since day 1? I think these answers will tell you if he will stop or if a frank conversation would help or not. 

ETA: I don’t handle teasing well and it makes me quite uncomfortable. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by mmasc

[happi duck]

I would hate to be run off from a job I otherwise liked.  Iiwm, when he did this in front of a customer I'd say "I don't like to be teased.  Please stop."  Hopefully looking stupid in front of a customer would stop it.  If he switched to bullying when you were alone I'd go ahead with "Except for your teasing, I like my job and you seem to need me.  Please stop the comments."

I'd stick to the word teasing so that he doesn't just get focused on saying "I'm just teasing."

Just my two cents!  (hugs)

[SKL]

If he's doing it in front of customers, tell him afterwards that you are giving him 1 warning that if he does that again, you are going to call him out in front of the customers.  Then follow through.

Document your conversation(s) if there is anyone above him that you could inform.

"Please stop."

"Please stop.  I don't like it."

If that doesn't work or makes things worse, then give your notice.

[Sneezyone]

 

Document. Explain in clear terms that you are not amused and want it to stop. Take your concerns to senior ppl. Quit and sue. In that order.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Sneezyone

[MercyA]

I don't like confrontation either, but I hate that a jerk is making you unhappy in a job that otherwise sounds like a great fit. 

Short and simple. "I really don't like being teased. Please don't do that." If he protests, say, "I really don't want to argue about it. Just please don't do it. Now I have to go [do whatever]." Repeat until he knows you really mean it. It might be hard to say, but it's easier than finding a new job. 

[gaillardia]

this sounds like verbal abuse and I recommend you look online for pointers on how to handle it from here on out. If it makes you uncomfortable then it is wrong and maybe illegal. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful than that and will try to find information for you about abuse in the workplace and what your rights are. 

You should not have to be defending yourself, feeling embarassed or humuliated, teased, or feeling like you are ready to quit. You would be surprised at what is illegal. Documentation, I don't know if recording his behavior without his knowledge is illegal or not, but I would be considering it if it is legal. Having someone who will witness for you would be another route to take. Obviously other people see or hear this too, right? How rooted do they seem to be in their relationship to that business? Enough to sever ties if asked to witness for you? I'm sick of people being taken advantage of and strongly encourage you to research what your rights are as an employee.

Edited July 23, 2019 by gaillardia

[Ausmumof3]

To be really honest I would start looking elsewhere and have something on the go before calling it out.  If he’s just naive as to his behaviour he might wake up to himself and stop but if he’s a genuine bully he’s likely to just turn nastier after being confronted.  Not seeing the interaction means I can’t say which it is for sure but if you think its intentional abuse to make you feel bad I’d be looking elsewhere.  Calling out abusers on your own without support isn’t always a safe option.

[Forget-Me-Not]

@Sneezyone she asked that we don’t quote. I’m sure you just overlooked it 😊

[LMD]

Firstly, I'd start documenting every comment and incident. To protect yourself if he gets nasty.

I think you need to rehearse a simple line that makes your boundary clear and say it every. single. time - if you can cut him off before he finishes even better. Then walk away, to the bathroom, to get a drink, to just do a lap of the office. Back up your words with a physical boundary.

"No, I will not accept you talking to me like that"

"That is rude and unprofessional and I will not accept it"

"Do not speak to me like that, it is unacceptable."

No pleases or sorrys or explanations. He knows what he is doing. If he's otherwise a good guy, then this is like habit training. If he's not otherwise a good guy then you'll pretty quickly see that he has no intention of respecting you or your boundaries, you'll know that the workplace is toxic and unviable and make plans to leave. I'm sorry you're going through this.

[Selkie]

2 hours ago, mmasc said:

I’m sorry. That really sucks. 😞 Could you give us an example of what he says in front of people? Does he act like that when it’s just the two of you? Has he done it since day 1? I think these answers will tell you if he will stop or if a frank conversation would help or not. 

ETA: I don’t handle teasing well and it makes me quite uncomfortable. 

I agree, examples would be helpful. It's hard to know what to advise without more information.

[MEmama]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I would like to add one thing.  this isn't because you're female and your boss is male.  this is because your boss is a sob, and sobs will hire people they can bully.

 

Yes, he is a bully, but also yes, he talks to me that way because I'm a female. It is clear when he tells people who come into the office that "he does all the work; SHE (pointing at me and sneering) does absolutely nothing around here. Ha ha ha!"

We do have a guy about my age who comes in once a month; he notices how I'm treated and calls him out on it. He's known my boss forever, but I don't trust him enough to ask for advice. 

[MEmama]

14 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I agree, examples would be helpful. It's hard to know what to advise without more information.

I'm reluctant to give too many examples, mostly because it's overall attitude and tone--and him KNOWING that it makes me uncomfortable and goading me anyway--than anything else. Mostly it's the standard issue patriarchal BS we are all familiar with.

He's just a rude, salty old man, honestly. He's not dangerous or anything like that. He has lost many, many clients in the time I've been there because he's so mean. I know we have clients who wonder how or why I stay. 

I have held my ground on some topics, like politics. I saw immediately he is on the opposite end of every spectrum as me, so on my first day (when he brought it up) I told him I won't discuss politics under any circumstances. I have had to remind him repeatedly; the last time I almost told him it was becoming harassment (but he stormed out so I didn't get a chance). 

He owns the business, so there isn't a higher up to complain to or file a complaint with. 

Sorry all this went under your quote! I should have multi-quoted.

[mmasc]

With that info, sadly I don’t think anything you say will help. 😞. You could definitely try what a pp recommended and telling him that you like your job, but you will have to quit if he keeps it up. If he keeps it up, then he obviously doesn’t value you enough to keep you. What a bummer

[HomeAgain]

I guess I should have asked before, but do you want to stay?

I'm a pretty bold person when I'm in the right, and I know not everyone can channel that.  Maybe going passive-aggressive would be easier on you.  Just look at your boss blankly, stare for a few seconds while he gets uncomfortable, and ask, "what do you mean by that?"  Sometimes putting people on the spot works just as well, if not better, than confronting them directly.

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

I don't like confrontation either, but I hate that a jerk is making you unhappy in a job that otherwise sounds like a great fit. 

Short and simple. "I really don't like being teased. Please don't do that." If he protests, say, "I really don't want to argue about it. Just please don't do it. Now I have to go [do whatever]." Repeat until he knows you really mean it. It might be hard to say, but it's easier than finding a new job. 

 

51 minutes ago, LMD said:

Firstly, I'd start documenting every comment and incident. To protect yourself if he gets nasty.

I think you need to rehearse a simple line that makes your boundary clear and say it every. single. time - if you can cut him off before he finishes even better. Then walk away, to the bathroom, to get a drink, to just do a lap of the office. Back up your words with a physical boundary.

"No, I will not accept you talking to me like that"

"That is rude and unprofessional and I will not accept it"

"Do not speak to me like that, it is unacceptable."

No pleases or sorrys or explanations. He knows what he is doing. If he's otherwise a good guy, then this is like habit training. If he's not otherwise a good guy then you'll pretty quickly see that he has no intention of respecting you or your boundaries, you'll know that the workplace is toxic and unviable and make plans to leave. I'm sorry you're going through this.

I think I can say this to him. I suspect it's a lost cause, but it will make me feel better to stand up for myself. 

Several times I have been forced to ask him if he'd rather I leave. He doesn't, of course; he and I both know how much he needs me there. But even so, it continues.

I have half heartedly looked for a replacement job, just in case I reach my breaking point. But mostly I really do like my job and I don't want to leave (yet). I just want him to stop being so insulting to me. Ugh.

 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

I don't like confrontation either, but I hate that a jerk is making you unhappy in a job that otherwise sounds like a great fit. 

Short and simple. "I really don't like being teased. Please don't do that." If he protests, say, "I really don't want to argue about it. Just please don't do it. Now I have to go [do whatever]." Repeat until he knows you really mean it. It might be hard to say, but it's easier than finding a new job. 

I feel these are to "supplicant" in trying to appease the jerk, and that there should be more of an infinitive tone.  (as in ' he will, or there will be consequences."  even if it's only she quits)

so - "I don't like", " I don't want",

no - "please"....

32 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Yes, he is a bully, but also yes, he talks to me that way because I'm a female. It is clear when he tells people who come into the office that "he does all the work; SHE (pointing at me and sneering) does absolutely nothing around here. Ha ha ha!"

We do have a guy about my age who comes in once a month; he notices how I'm treated and calls him out on it. He's known my boss forever, but I don't trust him enough to ask for advice. 

at that point - I would start listing off what you DO, TO THE CUSTOMER. (ending with: how he couldn't get along without you.)  then look at him and "smile".  (a frozen smile/stare that doesn't reach your eyes. delivered with a "I dare you to dig yourself a deeper hole, jerk" face.)

or - in front of customer, ask: "If *you think* I don't do anything, why do you still pay me to do __, ___, ___, ,___, etc?" - again, frozen smile that doesn't reach your eyes.

yes - these are burning bridge moves.  but he's an sob/bully and I think his customers would be interested in how he treated his employee.

why do you want to stay?

I would suggest you read up on bullies and narcissists.  also boundaries by townsend and cloud.  (I like dr. les carter's youtube channel - surviving narcissism.)

does he have a supervisor - or is he "it"?

do keep a record of every interaction.

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

True, although he does seem to have decided that he can more easily bully women.

we have an example of him bullying one woman.  one woman is not a pattern.

we have an example of him not bullying one male who works for him one day a month.  one day a month for one male is not a pattern of not being bullied.

51 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Yes, he is a bully, but also yes, he talks to me that way because I'm a female. It is clear when he tells people who come into the office that "he does all the work; SHE (pointing at me and sneering) does absolutely nothing around here. Ha ha ha!"

We do have a guy about my age who comes in once a month; he notices how I'm treated and calls him out on it. He's known my boss forever, but I don't trust him enough to ask for advice. 

have you witnessed him bullying OTHER women over whom he holds professional authority?  or just you?  

that is one guy, one day a month - who speaks out.  are there any other guys under his authority that he doesn't bully?

townsend and cloud's book on boundaries should be very helpful.

[LMD]

With his 'joking' comment, you look him in the eye and say your line - "that is unprofessional and unacceptable" and walk away immediately. Do not stop if he tries to smooth it over, you've said your piece and have nothing else to say to him. If he comes to you later to tell you how you overreacted and he was joking, you say your line again and walk away. Him: "come on MEmama, you know I'm just having fun!" You: "it is unprofessional and unacceptable" Him: "yeah, but..." You: "no, it is unprofessional and unacceptable" *get up and walk away*

If he talks to you normally at other times then act normally. But this is your only response to behaviour that crosses your boundaries. Boundaries that you've spoken to him about before and he refuses to respect. You're not being mean or impolite, you are helping him to learn to respect women's boundaries - that it a kindness.

[MercyA]

23 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I feel these are to "supplicant" in trying to appease the jerk, and that there should be more of an infinitive tone.  (as in ' he will, or there will be consequences."  even if it's only she quits)

so - "I don't like", " I don't want",

no - "please"....

Yes, I did think about this, but sometimes it's easier for a non-confrontational person to phrase things this way. It's better to say something than nothing at all--and one can always escalate. 

Whatever tone or phrasing she chooses, I think the most important thing is for MEmama to have a phrase or two ready to use and repeat. You can do it, MEmama! 

[Acadie]

"You need to stop."

With someone like this I wouldn't get into how I feel, or what I'm uncomfortable with, or what constitutes professional behavior. I'd just be clear about the boundary. "You need to stop."

"You need to stop or you'll lose your best employee."

Repeat two or three times publicly, if necessary. Clarify, possibly joke, but still maintain the boundary--"Yep, I'm the only employee, but I'm still the best."

Then tell him privately he needs to stop or you will quit. At that point, you've got to mean it.

He sounds like a dude. What if you act like a dude? Tell him you'll walk if this isn't working for you. 

Amy

Edited July 24, 2019 by Acadie

[gardenmom5]

17 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Yes, I did think about this, but sometimes it's easier for a non-confrontational person to phrase things this way. It's better to say something than nothing at all--and one can always escalate. 

Whatever tone or phrasing she chooses, I think the most important thing is for MEmama to have a phrase or two ready to use and repeat. You can do it, MEmama! 

it's also easier for the bully to ignore it.  and smirk.  and take pleasure in upsetting the non-confrontational person and being reminded, yet again, how they have power over them.  that's my concern.

 

[Katy]

It's not a lost cause.  He's an older guy and men tend to treat all coworkers that way in all-male environments, so he probably doesn't comprehend that this isn't normal.  It is abusive, but he's not aware he's being abusive so he doesn't get it.  I'll probably catch all kinds of grief for this, but if I were you, the next time he does something that bothers you I'd tear up.  Literally start crying, tell him he's being so inappropriate you are going to take the rest of the day off to consider if you want to keep this job or not. Both because it's a genuine display of emotion that you've been holding back, but also because IME old men turn to mush at tears.  When it's VERY CLEAR to him that you're not okay with it he may or may not change.  Then you'll know for sure if it's a lost cause.  If you're not the type to cry, ever, then instead write him a letter.  Just be genuine and very clear that this is really bothering you and if it doesn't change you are going to quit.

[gardenmom5]

6 minutes ago, Katy said:

It's not a lost cause.  He's an older guy and men tend to treat all coworkers that way in all-male environments, so he probably doesn't comprehend that this isn't normal.  It is abusive, but he's not aware he's being abusive so he doesn't get it.  I'll probably catch all kinds of grief for this, but if I were you, the next time he does something that bothers you I'd tear up.  Literally start crying, tell him he's being so inappropriate you are going to take the rest of the day off to consider if you want to keep this job or not. Both because it's a genuine display of emotion that you've been holding back, but also because IME old men turn to mush at tears.  When it's VERY CLEAR to him that you're not okay with it he may or may not change.  Then you'll know for sure if it's a lost cause.  If you're not the type to cry, ever, then instead write him a letter.  Just be genuine and very clear that this is really bothering you and if it doesn't change you are going to quit.

I see a few possibilities.

if he's "just clueless and really thinks he's just being funny.  tearing up, *might* wake him up that it's mean, and get him to stop.  it *might also* get him to go off on some rant about how manipulative women are with their tears (I've seen younger men make these comments. usually the ones who pick up women in bars.), and to subsequently dig in his heels.

if he's a bully - it will let him know he's getting to her, and things could escalate to being even meaner.

 

[Garga]

OP, do you have a gut feeling for how to handle it?  Like, if you were brave enough to go through with it, what do you think would be the best way to handle it?  If you were completely brave and a confrontational personality? 

A lot of times in these situations, we do have a gut feeling for what we should do, but we need help getting up the nerve to do it.  We might be able to help you get up the nerve or hone exactly how do implement whatever it is you think you should implement.

[Liz CA]

6 hours ago, MaBelle said:

Ditto above.  Tell him to knock it off and if he doesn't just leave.  Who needs that kind of crap?

 

 

This ...in so many words. I'd ask for a meeting and tell him this is not how you will be treated. If he does not think he can change or at least refrain from making comments, you will need to seek employment elsewhere. Since you know him better than we do, you would know how best to approach this so it stays in the realm of amicable since it sounds like you value this job and it fits right now with what you need. However, be prepared to take action because if you don't, the teasing may even get worse. The "formula" is "If you don't stop...then I will." It can be communicated in a number of ways to suit your style.

[Pen]

Next time he does it, especially effective perhaps if it happens to be in front of others, “Name, I like this job and would like to continue to work here, but I find your behavior is creating a hostile work environment for me. If you keep on acting and saying things like you just did, I will resign.” If you do feel ready to do that.  

You might want a record of his statements and that you have warned him privately first though. See if your area has “hostile work environment” laws.  Knowing the law and if it is on your side could help make your point with out actually saying that you might take legal action. 

[Pen]

However, he may in his own view be teasing and not mean what he does the way it feels to you.  

Men do sometimes tease in ways like that with people they feel like buddies with.  Where it’s more an indication of closeness and informal banter. 

If so you should be able to tease back.

“Says you! Without me you’d be ___”  the ____ needs something colorful...  I dunno... “in a barrel headed for Niagara Falls” and grin. 

Or to the customers, “He lies.  He’s the figure head. I make things go.”  And smile benevolently.  

Edited July 24, 2019 by Pen

[EmilyGF]

My dad had a very disrespectful boss who belittled him in front of coworkers and undercut his work to the point of making the company lose money. Frequently my dad wanted to quit, and almost did a few times, but he stuck with it because he could see how there were long term benefits of not burning bridges. Over time, my dad has benefited a lot from the connection and he's figured out ways to avoid interaction as much as possible. Also, he has become aware of how the boss undercuts and belittles ALL employees, so he no longer feels singled out. This man, too, is the owner of his company and there is no higher level to appeal to.

OP, I don't think what your boss is doing is OK and I hope some of the suggestions above can help you. However, I think you may want to avoid burning bridges as it seems like you can benefit a lot from this job, at least for now.

Emily

[Pen]

Another possible option would be to try to let it wash over you without affecting you. Sort of an inner eye roll (probably not actual) and dismiss it in your own mind as him being a jerk.  Again.  But try not to take it any more to heart than a 2 year old having a tantrum.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Pen

[Sneezyone]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

we have an example of him bullying one woman.  one woman is not a pattern.

we have an example of him not bullying one male who works for him one day a month.  one day a month for one male is not a pattern of not being bullied.

have you witnessed him bullying OTHER women over whom he holds professional authority?  or just you?  

that is one guy, one day a month - who speaks out.  are there any other guys under his authority that he doesn't bully?

townsend and cloud's book on boundaries should be very helpful.

 

It only takes one woman. You don’t have to harass every woman in your employ to be beyond the bounds of law and decency.

I do agree with the bit about not using passive language tho. You don’t need to get into a tit for tat pissing match. 

“Do not say that to me. That is inappropriate. Stop, now.” Is sufficient. 

Keep a log/journal of what he does/says and what you observe. Trust your instincts.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Sneezyone

[SereneHome]

I have to preface my response by admitting that I really don't give  a crap about such things at work. My boss, who is a woman, is INCREDIBLY rude and moody. After I got over the initial shock that someone can actually be THIS rude and moody at work, I just really truly don't care.

I say all that to show that I look at those type of situations by taking emotions out of it.  So, as crappy as it might sounds - you really have two choices - take it or leave it.  It's not a place with HR and various channels of management.  It's one guy, who has no one above him and it's you and you don't have anyone next to you.

If you have a hard time expressing yourself verbally, send him an email. And may be that will help.  Hopefully, it will help. But I wouldn't expect miracles. So I would mentally prepare yourself for either outcomes - you walk out now or you bide your time and walk out later. But I would put your mental health first - and act from there.

Good luck!!

BTW, my mom retired from her job two years before she was planning to bc of ONE email her boss sent her.  I wouldn't have even blinked at that email, but my mom got really upset and announced her retirement 2 wks later.  I couldn't believe it!  But my mom is super sensitive to things like that and that was that.

[kiwik]

Do you know any of the big customers about the same age?  If they told him it wasn't OK would he listen?  Otherwise just coming up with a few stock responses and repeating them ad nauseam might be the only way.  Don't give an ulta matim unless you can afford to quit and are willing to do so.  It makes you feel a bit like having a marble jar doesn't it?  At least he hasn't undermined your confidence but watch out for that 

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

we have an example of him bullying one woman.  one woman is not a pattern.

 

Does it have to be a pattern? Does sexism only count if it happens to multiple women? 

[Pen]

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/what-makes-a-work-environment-hostile-1919363

you could decide whether you think his behavior rises to this level or not...

[Pen]

Possibly helpful for ideas:

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/what-makes-a-bad-boss-bad-1917716

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/how-to-deal-with-a-bully-at-work-1917901

[gardenmom5]

57 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

Does it have to be a pattern? Does sexism only count if it happens to multiple women? 

if it's only one woman - how do you know it's sexism and not simply because he's a bully?  does he treat female customers this way?  or just his single female employee?

we dont' know if he treats men this way - if he does, would that still make him sexist?  or "just" a bully?  the single male example she gives - talks back to him, he doesn't tolerate being bullied and he doesn't tolerate other people being bullied.  bullies generally are cowards who don't bully those who talk back.  what would he be like to a male who doesn't talk back?

bullies - will hire people who *they perceive* as being a target for bullying.  females aren't the only ones who get bullied - so do men.  males aren't the only ones doing the bullying in the workplace - women bully too.  and it's not about sexism - it's about being a bully.

[Pen]

If you spoke to the other employee male you mentioned, asked his advice, what are you afraid of potentially happening?  What’s the risk?

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

if it's only one woman - how do you know it's sexism and not simply because he's a bully?  does he treat female customers this way?  or just his single female employee?

we dont' know if he treats men this way - if he does, would that still make him sexist?  or "just" a bully?  the single male example she gives - talks back to him, he doesn't tolerate being bullied and he doesn't tolerate other people being bullied.  bullies generally are cowards who don't bully those who talk back.  what would he be like to a male who doesn't talk back?

bullies - will hire people who *they perceive* as being a target for bullying.  females aren't the only ones who get bullied - so do men.  males aren't the only ones doing the bullying in the workplace - women bully too.  and it's not about sexism - it's about being a bully.

 

You can be a bully and also be sexist.  The two conditions are not mutually exclusive. 

The OP wasn't asking us to decide whether or not this man's actions were sexist.  She asked for advice on how to handle the situation.  I'm going to assume that she is enough of an authority on her own life experiences to know whether or not she is being treated in a sexist manner or not.  There's a phrase that I have heard again and again in internet advice forums: "Assume a context of abuse", meaning that if someone tells you "This situation is abusive/toxic/sexist/unhealthy and I need help", don't undermine them; believe them.   It costs us nothing to believe them and offer commiseration and advice.    

[kiwik]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

If you spoke to the other employee male you mentioned, asked his advice, what are you afraid of potentially happening?  What’s the risk?

Is it another employee or a regular customer or tradesman?  

[Pen]

5 hours ago, kiwik said:

Is it another employee or a regular customer or tradesman?  

 

I don’t know.

 I thought I saw that above, but now I don’t.  

I thought Someplace she talked about wishing she could ask this guy’s advice, but not knowing him well enough.  

I think either I dreamed the post, or it was edited out or I mistook someone else’s for @MEmama ‘s :embarrassed: 😳.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Pen