So my MIL announced that she’s flying in for a two week week visit- need advice

[marbel]

10 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

Agree.

And to expand on your point, I'm sure I'll make mistakes as a MIL, just as I do as a mom. I hope I'll be allowed grace and forgiveness.

What the OP's MIL did does not fall into the unforgivable category to me. But given the sledgehammer responses in this thread, I can see this isn't a universal feeling. 

We don't know WHY she made the plans first without asking. We haven't heard it was a pattern. IMO, there has to be a reason. Maybe it is a very sad reason, like she's lonely and just wanted to be with family. 

I was thinking about this. So often people make vague invitations - "we'd love to see you"... "come visit anytime..."  stuff like that.  I never take them seriously unless there is a specific date or event mentioned. Even if I did take them seriously, I would always ask before making travel plans. But for all anyone here (maybe even OP) knows, OP's husband says those sorts of things to his mom and she's taking him up on it.

OP, I'm sorry. I would be inclined to just make the best of it this year, but tell my husband to talk with his mother about house rules, expectations for the kids, etc. If he is schedule to work during her visit, I would see if he can take any time off so he can spend it with his mom. My in-laws annoy the heck out of me but they are not my parents, they are not toxic, and they are not going to be around forever. We make the best of our infrequent visits with them and see them as obligations rather than pleasure.  I would explain to the kids that the visit is not ideal but we'll deal with it, and give them language to use with grandma if she starts parenting them inappropriately. 

But that's my life and how it would work.  I hope you get it worked out so everyone can enjoy the holiday!  Hugs to you.

[Mbelle]

14 minutes ago, Farrar said:

But part of the reason for drawing these lines is so that this grandma can have a better relationship with the kids. It may make you sad to think of them not welcoming her... but it doesn't really matter if they're welcoming or not when she upsets the household and bickers with the older kids. She's not going to have a great relationship with them long term anyway. Boundaries will actually help her do that if it's done right.

This.  

 

Some families have decades of no boundaries and don't have a clue about them or have backhanded ways of dealing, such as shame, guilt, silence, avoidance and manipulation.  We have to bring practical loving sense to our families communication habits if they are like this so our children can carry these habits forward in a healthy way.  It is not always an easy road.

[Katy]

I don't think we know enough about the OP's situation to know if this woman is a toxic manipulator, is just thoughtless, or maybe she just got a devastating diagnosis and wants to be there before she announces she has end stage cancer or something. OP didn't ask how to set boundaries, she asked how to enjoy this visit anyway.

I've lived enough places around the country to know that the right way to handle it is going to vary. In most of the South and the Midwest, the answer is to teach the kids to nod and smile and politely ignore the grandmother's instructions and follow mom's rules instead. In other areas flat-out refusing and arguing and calling for mom might be considered more appropriate.

If it really is something that only happens every few years I'd do my best to figure out ways Grandma could show off, for the kids to get to know her best sides.  But then again I think my in laws are a tiny bit afraid of me, and that's WITH DH and I agreeing to each confront our own families about whatever issues we have.

[unsinkable]

27 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don't think we know enough about the OP's situation to know if this woman is a toxic manipulator, is just thoughtless, or maybe she just got a devastating diagnosis and wants to be there before she announces she has end stage cancer or something. OP didn't ask how to set boundaries, she asked how to enjoy this visit anyway.

I've lived enough places around the country to know that the right way to handle it is going to vary. In most of the South and the Midwest, the answer is to teach the kids to nod and smile and politely ignore the grandmother's instructions and follow mom's rules instead. In other areas flat-out refusing and arguing and calling for mom might be considered more appropriate.

If it really is something that only happens every few years I'd do my best to figure out ways Grandma could show off, for the kids to get to know her best sides.  But then again I think my in laws are a tiny bit afraid of me, and that's WITH DH and I agreeing to each confront our own families about whatever issues we have.

I was thinking this, too, but I was too stitious (ok, maybe I'm superstitious) to post it.

[Carol in Cal.]

There is a lot of room between ‘tell her not to tell the kids what to do’ and ‘tell her she has to stay in a motel.’

I have found that sometimes redirecting GPS works as well with them as with toddlers.  After all, they mean well.  

To do that, though, you do have to be *in the room*.  It’s work, for sure.  It is, however, part of teaching kids how to be in a tense situation without blowing it or being a doormat, and when I thought of it that way, it made it easier to enjoy the whole process.

For instance, DD had a sensory avoidance problem that made her an incredibly picky eater.  I taught her privately how to be polite about that—eat before you arrive, eat what you can, say no thank you when offered something you don’t want, do not show disgust or aversion to what is offered under any circumstances.  But, and this was key, I also backed her up.  When people got insistent or said, “Aren’t you hungry?”  I would smile and say, she said no thank you, she is fine.  And mostly that would be the end of it.  And, again, this was key, I let her know in advance that I would back her polite refusals up so she would not be put on the spot.

If you think of this as an opportunity to explicitly teach the older kids how to be polite in a trying situation, but you also back them up yourself instead of telling them to either defy or knuckle under to GMa’s rules, it might both improve your relationships and be enjoyable to an extent.  Also, that generation has different norms.  My MIL once told me that she thought the problem with her other son’s kids’ low weights was that they were not used to a meal routine.  I thought this meant that they noshed whenever they wanted to instead of having meals, and was surprised because SIL is quite a cook; but what she actually meant was that they didn’t eat meals at the same time every day.  I had no idea that MIL thought that was normal and important; and we certainly were not that kind of guest when we visited their house.  It was a big fat glimpse into how much grace she had been extending US to realize that she thought that was the norm, and yet we completely disrupted it without me even realizing it every single time we stayed with them.  

There are always things like that across generations who live apart, and sometimes even across generations who live in the same town.  OP, I hope you can do a little redirecting, and take some pleasure in encouraging GMA to make good memories with you and your kids, and also to relax.

[gardenmom5]

I'm now remembering the christmas we hosted my family for christmas eve.  my mother, grandmother, brother - and his kids . . . showed up FOUR HOURS early.   I had things that had to be done to prepare both for dinner, - and my children's christmas gifts.   If I entertained them - my children would have fewer gifts in the morning - becasue I couldn't physically stay up all night long so they could open their gifts in the morning.  (I already had staying up late on my schedule to finish things - so I'd have to stay up even later.)

I had to just go in my then sewing room - and lock the door behind me.

but when I was little, and my mother actually hosted - my grandmother did the exact same thing to her.  one time - it was FIVE hours early.  and no, she expected to NOT help - but to be entertained.

[marbel]

52 minutes ago, Mbelle said:

This.  

 

Some families have decades of no boundaries and don't have a clue about them or have backhanded ways of dealing, such as shame, guilt, silence, avoidance and manipulation.  We have to bring practical loving sense to our families communication habits if they are like this so our children can carry these habits forward in a healthy way.  It is not always an easy road.

Sure, of course. But that doesn't mean necessarily telling grandma "nope, don't come this year" just for the sake of teaching kids how to set boundaries.  I mean, there are different ways to do it, including talking things out (with older kids anyway).  Whatever the OP and her husband decide to do, they can do it in front of their children, and model what they want them to learn. That's not silence and avoidance.  

[shawthorne44]

1 hour ago, unsinkable said:

Agree.

And to expand on your point, I'm sure I'll make mistakes as a MIL, just as I do as a mom. I hope I'll be allowed grace and forgiveness.

What the OP's MIL did does not fall into the unforgivable category to me. But given the sledgehammer responses in this thread, I can see this isn't a universal feeling. 

We don't know WHY she made the plans first without asking. We haven't heard it was a pattern. IMO, there has to be a reason. Maybe it is a very sad reason, like she's lonely and just wanted to be with family. 

 

I don't think it was that she made plans and then informed the OP's family.    It was that a majority of the family dreads her visit.   I figure a majority because I think we can put OP in the Dread category since she posted, she said that her older kids are in the Dread category.   Kids was plural, so I assume a minimum of 2 older kids.   The youngest was placed in the Eager category.   So, even putting OP's DH with the youngest kid, that is 3 dreading and 2 eager.   

The only real impact of the MIL's mistake of not asking for the visit is that The Hive's advice isn't about how to respond to a request, since that wasn't given.  Also, it is another small ding against the MIL.  

For those that worry about how your grown kids will treat you in this situation.  I would say to not make yourself unwelcome when you do visit.   

 

[Scarlett]

Introvert here, who would prefer to not even have to share my house with my kids some days,  but when dhs parents come I remember he loves them  and I don’t ever like to make him feel like he has to choose between them and me.  Two weeks is a long time... but I just keep thinking how she might be lonely, or sick or just feeling like she would do this surprise and everyone would welcome her.  Makes me sad.

[shawthorne44]

40 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

...but when I was little, and my mother actually hosted - my grandmother did the exact same thing to her.  one time - it was FIVE hours early.  and no, she expected to NOT help - but to be entertained.

My Grandmother, not the evil one and this was mom's MIL, would 'drop in' on my mom during the day hoping to catch the home in disarray.   She admitted this when she gave up trying.   I wonder if there had been a similar motive?   

I remember once telling a friend one of my Grandmother stories and I ended it with, "And that was the nice one"   Her response was "Wow".   

[Mbelle]

42 minutes ago, marbel said:

Sure, of course. But that doesn't mean necessarily telling grandma "nope, don't come this year" just for the sake of teaching kids how to set boundaries.  I mean, there are different ways to do it, including talking things out (with older kids anyway).  Whatever the OP and her husband decide to do, they can do it in front of their children, and model what they want them to learn. That's not silence and avoidance.  

Of course it doesn't necessarily mean that.  I would never do that, but that is me.  I tend to get angry and shout, but I've learned I don't have to do that.  I can simply say, I love you Grandma and I'm so glad you want to be with our family, but for the sake of my nerves and sanity could you please think about calling and saying you have been thinking about coming to see us and I'd love to see you during the holidays, can we work that out? I don't know about doing that in front of the children though.  I would ask her privately, as well as the issue with parenting the children.  To be honest there are lots of people who like to parent other people's children.  It's a common issue.

[marbel]

3 minutes ago, Mbelle said:

Of course it doesn't necessarily mean that.  I would never do that, but that is me.  I tend to get angry and shout, but I've learned I don't have to do that.  I can simply say, I love you Grandma and I'm so glad you want to be with our family, but for the sake of my nerves and sanity could you please think about calling and saying you have been thinking about coming to see us and I'd love to see you during the holidays, can we work that out? I don't know about doing that in front of the children though.  I would ask her privately, as well as the issue with parenting the children.  To be honest there are lots of people who like to parent other people's children.  It's a common issue.

I didn't mean they should talk to the MIL in front of the kids.  I was seeing it something more like... "ok, Grandma is planning to come visit us for Christmas. She didn't ask, and we would rather she didn't come just now. But, for this year, we're going to make the best of it because the plans are made and it would be cruel to tell her not to come. So, yeah, not ideal. But to avoid this happening again... blah blah..." get everyone on board with making it work. The older kids can  understand that (maybe leave the youngest out, depends on ages etc). Assure them that if Grandma tells them to do something they know they don't have to do, like get up early in the morning, the parents will run interference. Come up with some things everyone can do with Grandma, and things everyone can do without Grandma. 

One other thing I do is talk to my kids separately from their dad about his parents. My daughter and I in particular have lots of conversations about boundaries; she also understands that different families have different boundaries and that we expect that when she is an adult, she will kindly set her boundaries with us - and if she marries, she should have talks with her future husband about boundaries with his family and how that will look for them as a new couple/family unit of their own. 

BTW I'm not trying to put words in OP's mouth. Just saying how it might go down in my house.   :-)

[gardenmom5]

26 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

My Grandmother, not the evil one and this was mom's MIL, would 'drop in' on my mom during the day hoping to catch the home in disarray.   She admitted this when she gave up trying.   I wonder if there had been a similar motive?   

I remember once telling a friend one of my Grandmother stories and I ended it with, "And that was the nice one"   Her response was "Wow".   

I wouldn't be surprised - but I recall her doing it to the wife of my mother's cousin one thanksgiving.  I only realized it in hindsight about how early we showed up.

but when she'd call, and ask what I was doing - if I said "cleaning", she'd ask who was coming over.

she was also bored with her life and expected others to entertain her.

[unsinkable]

38 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

 

I don't think it was that she made plans and then informed the OP's family.    It was that a majority of the family dreads her visit.   I figure a majority because I think we can put OP in the Dread category since she posted, she said that her older kids are in the Dread category.   Kids was plural, so I assume a minimum of 2 older kids.   The youngest was placed in the Eager category.   So, even putting OP's DH with the youngest kid, that is 3 dreading and 2 eager.   

The only real impact of the MIL's mistake of not asking for the visit is that The Hive's advice isn't about how to respond to a request, since that wasn't given.  Also, it is another small ding against the MIL.  

For those that worry about how your grown kids will treat you in this situation.  I would say to not make yourself unwelcome when you do visit.   

 

I'm guessing bc I didn't do a hard count...But the majority of the posters here who had the most extreme sledgehammer responses were reacting that way bc the MIL made plane reservations and then told the family.

Regarding how ECSue's family feels...She has 2 older & 2 younger plus her and her DH. 

But in our family...some stuff isn't a vote. Some needs are more important at different times. If Dad really wants to see his mom bc of XYZ, it wouldn't be a vote situation. It would be a "how can we make this work" situation. 

In this situation, if EcSue was my spouse, I'd do everything I possibly could to ease her mind, work load, stress level, etc.

"My MIL lives across the country from us and usually tries to visit every year or two. Well, she emailed thats she’s flying in for a visit the last two weeks of December.  My youngest two will be excited she’s coming but the older two kids don’t enjoy her visits. She tends to assume a parenting role and tells the kids what to do. My kids just want to relax and sleep over the holiday break from school. They only get a week off so she’ll be here even during the week of school before break begins. I need your wisdom and encouragement so I can improve my very negative attitude.  I feel like this birthday/Christmas will be awful and I just want to cry. "

[Mbelle]

33 minutes ago, marbel said:

I didn't mean they should talk to the MIL in front of the kids.  I was seeing it something more like... "ok, Grandma is planning to come visit us for Christmas. She didn't ask, and we would rather she didn't come just now. But, for this year, we're going to make the best of it because the plans are made and it would be cruel to tell her not to come. So, yeah, not ideal. But to avoid this happening again... blah blah..." get everyone on board with making it work. The older kids can  understand that (maybe leave the youngest out, depends on ages etc). Assure them that if Grandma tells them to do something they know they don't have to do, like get up early in the morning, the parents will run interference. Come up with some things everyone can do with Grandma, and things everyone can do without Grandma. 

I see what you mean.  We do that too.

One other thing I do is talk to my kids separately from their dad about his parents. My daughter and I in particular have lots of conversations about boundaries; she also understands that different families have different boundaries and that we expect that when she is an adult, she will kindly set her boundaries with us - and if she marries, she should have talks with her future husband about boundaries with his family and how that will look for them as a new couple/family unit of their own. 

I have done this as well.

BTW I'm not trying to put words in OP's mouth. Just saying how it might go down in my house.   :-)\

I know.  Me too.

 

[Slache]

5 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Every time I read about unwanted in-laws I wonder if I am the only one feeling sadness. I have young boys. I would be devastated if one day my visits were received in such a way.  

No, I think about this all the time. I never want to see my MIL again (we do regularly) and can't imagine my DD/DDIL feeling that way about me.

[Farrar]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

You say that as if the DIL in the situation is always the reasonable one.  These relationships are always a two way street and sometimes the grandma isn't doing anything to make herself unwelcome. Sometimes, it's the DIL who is unwelcoming, difficult to get along with, rude, etc.  (and sometimes it's the son in law, I know of that situation too.)  And it's really tough on grandparents who are loving and reasonable and want relationships with their grandkids (and their own adult children) but the adult child's spouse is the one who is difficult or even toxic. 

Oh, it can absolutely be either the grandparents or the parents or both. In this particular case, I can't quite imagine seeing this as the OP's fault unless she has massively misrepresented the facts though.

It's always going to be hard for mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law - coming from different family traditions, different expectations, different generations - and these days, often from different cultures, religions, regions of the country if not parts of the world sometimes too. I just think... the fewer the assumptions the better, by far. Assuming you can just show up is a pretty big assumption. Assuming you can tell someone else's kids what to do in their own home is also a pretty big assumption. Both ends should always try to say what they need clearly - I want to come, I want to visit, I want help with this task, etc. And to ask - Would you like to talk about when, do you want to help with the meal planning, are you willing to watch the kids, are you interested in going here or there, etc. If both sides feed everything through that very basic screen - am I assuming? am I making clear what I want? am I asking what the other party wants? - then that would probably head off a lot of issues.

Unfortunately, some people don't think they should have to do that at all. They think "this is the way it's done" and they're resistant to having to ask or advocate. Why should I have to ask permission to visit, it's my son and grandchildren! Or why should I have to tell her not to take my kids' toys away! They're my kids! And then things get nasty, at least, in my experience.

[Farrar]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

Oh, I totally agree that the biggest problem I can fully see in the OP is that grandma just up and bought airline tickets without checking with anyone.  I mean really, that just seems like it should be common sense....what if the family had decided to go visit the OP's family and had already bought their airline tickets.  

 

Generally, it's probably good for all folks in these situations to try to start from a place of patience and an assumption of good intentions.  And since we don't know much from the OP other than grandma bought tickets without checking with the OP, and that two of her kids think their grandma is bossy ( to just paraphrase,)  I think it's wise to start withe the assumption that grandma isn't toxic or NPD or a rude selfish witch, but rather didn't think much ahead, or perhaps there was a miscommunication between the OP and her DH and her DH's mother.  

Agreed. I mean, I do think those behaviors are pretty toxic sounding, honestly. But this gets back to assumptions. If grandma assumes that it's okay to correct grandkid all the time, but mom doesn't ever sit her down and say "hey, that's not okay" and instead fumes about it, then... I mean, it's still grandma who is really overstepping, but, hey, we all make mistakes. Someone should correct them. And, ideally, do so with the assumption that it's a mistake, not an intentional slight.

[East Coast Sue]

5 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

No, you aren't the only one.  

 

It’s complicated. My MIL isn’t fond of me but we get along. My mom died 2 years ago and the truth is I miss her dearly. My birthday is during MIL’s stay and that’s a day that I feel my mom’s loss even more b/c she always made my birthday special. So, I’d be sad anyway but now I’m just overwhelmed by the thought of having a visitor for 2weeks. 

[gardenmom5]

21 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

You say that as if the DIL in the situation is always the reasonable one.  These relationships are always a two way street and sometimes the grandma isn't doing anything to make herself unwelcome. Sometimes, it's the DIL who is unwelcoming, difficult to get along with, rude, etc.  (and sometimes it's the son in law, I know of that situation too.)  And it's really tough on grandparents who are loving and reasonable and want relationships with their grandkids (and their own adult children) but the adult child's spouse is the one who is difficult or even toxic. 

the DIL in this situation isn't the one who made plans and then informed her mil she was visiting on ___ date/holiday for two weeks without being given so much as the option to say - how about ___?  the onus in this situation isn't on the dil.

and mil's should remember the dil controls access to the children, so don't be rude and disrespectful by pulling such stunts. and I do have friends who bend over backwards to not tick off the spouse so they can have access to the grandkids.  (in one case in particular - both mothers-in-law work together for the benefit of the children.)

 

12 minutes ago, Slache said:

No, I think about this all the time. I never want to see my MIL again (we do regularly) and can't imagine my DD/DDIL feeling that way about me.

same here - I'm trying very hard to not be the mil my parents had, or I had.  (my mother was fairly placid.  dh's mother is nuts.)   I currently have a good relationship with dsil - possibly better than his relationship with his parents.  which is . . .strange.

I'm trying to reach out to 1ds's gf (whom he wants to marry before he gets his MS, currently lives in another state), and lay a foundation for a good relationship in future.   for reasons I won't go into (and I understand, but it really is, and always has been, in her head and not reality) - she is convinced I hate her.    so.. . . I'm trying to let her know otherwise (and it never has been the case.), I'm sure closer proximity (ds wants to work in this area after graduation, and we have access to top medical facilities she needs) will help with that over time.

 

[Scarlett]

One of my friends has 4 daughters, no sons.  They are all married now and all have children....oddly enough every MIL is described as ‘crazy’ or ’intrusive’ or ‘difficult’. 

It made me wonder if it is usually the husbands mother who is described as the problem.  So I started taking mental notes every time a MIL was described as crazy was it the husbands mother or the wife’s,  almost always in my experience.....the husbands mother is described much more harshly and often kept out of the couples life in some way or another.

I should do a poll here.

[Mbelle]

So my in-laws are coming for a month early summer 2019.  Here's how the conversation went in our house. 

Dh said, Mom and Dad are thinking about coming over next summer.  I said, Ok, when?  He said I don't know they need to check on tickets.  I reminded him our son will not be here for 3 weeks in July, so to consider that.  Now they are coming in June.  

I do have a detached garage with guests suite, so that is very very convenient.  I also live in walking distance to parks, trails and restaurants and shopping.  Also very easy.  We have an old beater of a truck they can drive if not going to far. 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

One of my friends has 4 daughters, no sons.  They are all married now and all have children....oddly enough every MIL is described as ‘crazy’ or ’intrusive’ or ‘difficult’. 

It made me wonder if it is usually the husbands mother who is described as the problem.  So I started taking mental notes every time a MIL was described as crazy was it the husbands mother or the wife’s,  almost always in my experience.....the husbands mother is described much more harshly and often kept out of the couples life in some way or another.

I should do a poll here.

for my parents inlaws - my mother's mother wins the mil from hades hands down.

[Mbelle]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

One of my friends has 4 daughters, no sons.  They are all married now and all have children....oddly enough every MIL is described as ‘crazy’ or ’intrusive’ or ‘difficult’. 

It made me wonder if it is usually the husbands mother who is described as the problem.  So I started taking mental notes every time a MIL was described as crazy was it the husbands mother or the wife’s,  almost always in my experience.....the husbands mother is described much more harshly and often kept out of the couples life in some way or another.

I should do a poll here.

Make a poll! LOL

For me it's FIL, but dh is in agreement about it.  We have reached an age where we are going to love him anyway as best we can anyway, but not let him run over us.

[Jean in Newcastle]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

One of my friends has 4 daughters, no sons.  They are all married now and all have children....oddly enough every MIL is described as ‘crazy’ or ’intrusive’ or ‘difficult’. 

It made me wonder if it is usually the husbands mother who is described as the problem.  So I started taking mental notes every time a MIL was described as crazy was it the husbands mother or the wife’s,  almost always in my experience.....the husbands mother is described much more harshly and often kept out of the couples life in some way or another.

I should do a poll here.

A lot of daughters are close to their mom and might even model their family culture after their family-of-origin. A lot of MIL’s on the husband’s side see the DIL as the interloper who stole their son away. Both of the above sentences described my situation. 

[happi duck]

16 minutes ago, East Coast Sue said:

 

It’s complicated. My MIL isn’t fond of me but we get along. My mom died 2 years ago and the truth is I miss her dearly. My birthday is during MIL’s stay and that’s a day that I feel my mom’s loss even more b/c she always made my birthday special. So, I’d be sad anyway but now I’m just overwhelmed by the thought of having a visitor for 2weeks. 

So sorry for your loss.

My mil isn't fond of me either.  My mom died when we were married a year, 24 years ago.  I hate having a mil instead of my mom.

I didn't have any guidance through grief so losing her really messed me up.  I wish I had set up traditions for marking certain days.  Do you already have a tradition for your "without mom" birthdays.  If so, keep it no matter what.  If you want to start one do it anyway even with a visitor.

Many (hugs) from another daughter missing her mom

[LMD]

46 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

One of my friends has 4 daughters, no sons.  They are all married now and all have children....oddly enough every MIL is described as ‘crazy’ or ’intrusive’ or ‘difficult’. 

It made me wonder if it is usually the husbands mother who is described as the problem.  So I started taking mental notes every time a MIL was described as crazy was it the husbands mother or the wife’s,  almost always in my experience.....the husbands mother is described much more harshly and often kept out of the couples life in some way or another.

I should do a poll here.

 

My husband's parents are wonderful people who treated me like a daughter from the moment they met me. We've had our bumps but give each other grace. We see each other regularly. They have good relationships with all their children's spouses (daughters in law and son in law). My MIL is far from perfect, and in many ways we are not compatible at all, but she was determined to not be the mother in law that she had. She succeeded.

My mother is the problem MIL in our family who hasn't seen her only grandchildren in 6 years.

[Halftime Hope]

8 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

1. If telling Grandma to check into a hotel because she simply cannot make two week plans on such short notice without asking will "destroy the relationship" then that's Grandma's fault. That ship has completely and utterly sailed, because Grandma cares more about her right to presume on people than she does about her grandkids.

2. A relationship where somebody feels it's okay to just impose on you for two weeks is not normal and healthy to begin with.

3. Talk is cheap. Actions are what get results. If you say "You can do it just this once, but never again" then nobody takes you seriously, whatever the subject is.

Tanaqui, you clearly have a very black and white view of this.  

You've seen that many of us see more gray here, and we are positing more reasons to find a way to work it out, set boundaries, set expectations, and enable better relationships with the family.  Perhaps this is not possible, due to the rigidity or intractability of the personalities involved.  We don't know.

The fact that some of us see gray doesn't mean we are wrong or damaged or programmed to accept abuse.  It simply means that we have more flexibility than your posts would suggest, perhaps more grace, and certainly more willingness to risk and to be inconvenienced for something we perceive as valuable. 

I wish you all the best.

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Halftime Hope

[teachermom2834]

Regarding MILs and DILs- I have an awful relationship with mine. I'm the one upthread that said we have a five day/four night limit. She won't come because that isn't long enough. But things would get very ugly if she was here any longer. We are both at fault. Of course, I believe it is more her. MUCH more her!!! But, there are things I said and did over the years that were unnecessarily mean or disrespectful and things that I would do differently with some age and maturity. 

However, when we met, I was 18 years old. I was planning a wedding at 20 and became a mom at 23. Through all of the conflict at the beginning of our relationship I was a kid. She was the one in her forties! I'm 44 now and when I meet the girlfriends and potential spouses of my boys I remember that I am the adult. I'm the one with some life experience and maturity. I really feel like it is on me to make the relationship work and meet her where she is. Why did MIL engage with me as equals and get into it with me when she was a grown woman and I was a kid? My MIL and I would never be friends. She would drive me nuts if I went to church with her or lived next door or even if I had to stand in next to her in line at the grocery store, probably. While I know I am at fault in the relationship and I could have given more grace or been kinder over the years, I really wish she would have behaved better and given me some grace while I grew up. So that is what I'm taking from the situation now that I'm approaching becoming the MIL.

My MIL did stuff like this: I had my first baby at 23. He was jaundiced and failed to thrive initially so I was juggling breastfeeding and supplementing and we had home health aides coming to our apartment. I had a difficult delivery and ended up with significant tearing as well as nerve damage that led to difficulty walking because of a foot droop.My closest family was 800 miles away and we had no friends.  MIL visited when ds was about 10 days old. It was Mother's Day. My first Mother's Day. My MIL plopped on the couch, looked at me and said "What are you doing for me for Mother's Day? It's my day to put my feet up and relax!" So dh (the scared and overwhelmed 23 yo new dad with sick baby and injured wife) and I hobbled around the kitchen and made her dinner. 

Toxic and dangerous?? I dunno but some of us have MILs that do that kind of thing. If I had just set a boundary then and said "NO. We are not making dinner. We are ordering a pizza"  we would have a better relationship now. Some boundaries would have benefited her and her access to our kids. 

[Pen]

Tell her to bring along plenty of books she wants to read because your nuclear family needs plenty of down time and alone time.  And or assign her to do read aloud for kids who would like that in her room or theirs. 

Specify when you will be available to socialize.  

Encourage youngers who would enjoy “grandma time” to do things with grandma and vice versa. 

Tell grandma what your house rules are including no telling big kids what to do. 

 

Have dh tell her to give you grace and space, however you need that— and maybe pay for a cleaner to come clean.  

and for future have dh tell her to work out visits with him and you prior  to getting tickets.  

ETA. But maybe if you can get grandma to be more chill and mellow it would be easier for fuuuture holidays     I think there may be communication trouble on both sides she not telling you ahead of time and discussing what would work well for visit, but you and dh not telling her what you want/ need  either  

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Pen

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

One of my friends has 4 daughters, no sons.  They are all married now and all have children....oddly enough every MIL is described as ‘crazy’ or ’intrusive’ or ‘difficult’. 

It made me wonder if it is usually the husbands mother who is described as the problem.  So I started taking mental notes every time a MIL was described as crazy was it the husbands mother or the wife’s,  almost always in my experience.....the husbands mother is described much more harshly and often kept out of the couples life in some way or another.

I should do a poll here.

In my FOO, it was my mom's mom who was the problem.  My dad's mom made missteps and could be demanding, but my mom was able to let her know or put up with it.  My mom's mom was mean to my mom, which made my dad furious.  She always knew he didn't like her and from things I heard, she deserved it.  But she wasn't banned or anything like that.  She was the fun granny from us kids' perspective; my mom didn't tell us just how bad Granny could be until she had passed.

But I do think that usually, the mom's mom fits in better because moms are in charge of how the household is run, and they learned from their own mom.  My mom isn't likely to find my way of housekeeping or childrearing alien.  So on average, the dad's mom is more likely to find things strange when she visits.

[Halftime Hope]

8 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Every time I read about unwanted in-laws I wonder if I am the only one feeling sadness. I have young boys. I would be devastated if one day my visits were received in such a way.  

They are family. Tell them to lay off the kids and enjoy the family. Time will come when we will lose our parents and all we will have are memories.  😞 

 

Exactly this.

[Shoeless]

5 hours ago, Katy said:

I don't think we know enough about the OP's situation to know if this woman is a toxic manipulator, is just thoughtless, or maybe she just got a devastating diagnosis and wants to be there before she announces she has end stage cancer or something. OP didn't ask how to set boundaries, she asked how to enjoy this visit anyway.I'

2

 

If my father or MIL decided that arriving for an uninvited 2 week stay to break the news like this to my family AT CHRISTMAS, it would cement my belief that they are total drama queens and at best have incredibly poor boundaries and at worst are toxic.  Seriously, cancer for Christmas?  I can't think of a worse lasting memory to leave my family.  Every year at the holidays, they'll remember the time that grandma showed up with cancer for Christmas.  Yikes. Talk about melodrama. 

[moonflower]

To be fair, I think the PP meant that maybe the grandma wanted to spend Christmas with her family before announcing she had cancer, as sort of a last fun/worry-free memory.

[happi duck]

This struck a nerve.  Cancer doesn't wait.  Having to tell people you have cancer is scary and it sucks.

My sister who died this spring felt funny telling people.  She was already hospitalized before I convinced her she wasn't being a bother.  I called loved ones to tell them. 

Some *dear* friends of hers I didn't know about didn't find out.  They were searching for her but extraordinary circumstances kept them from finding her before she died.

Diagnosis to death in my sister's case was two months.  Cancer doesn't wait.  Please don't talk about melodrama.  Comments like those are why my sister felt she shouldn't tell people.

Edited December 12, 2018 by happi duck

[Shoeless]

My apologies, happi duck.  I am so sorry to hear about your sister.   

 

[Katy]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

One of my friends has 4 daughters, no sons.  They are all married now and all have children....oddly enough every MIL is described as ‘crazy’ or ’intrusive’ or ‘difficult’. 

It made me wonder if it is usually the husbands mother who is described as the problem.  So I started taking mental notes every time a MIL was described as crazy was it the husbands mother or the wife’s,  almost always in my experience.....the husbands mother is described much more harshly and often kept out of the couples life in some way or another.

I should do a poll here.

 

So I have a theory about this- girls hash out difficult relationships with their mothers before they get married, often when they're only 9-12.  They develop boundaries.  They tell their mothers to not overstep.  Boys just shrug and leave it alone until their wives put their feet down about MIL overstepping.

If you do a poll, include past relationships too.  Because my MIL is insane - multiple involuntary committals insane. She's not part of our lives and hasn't been since before we got married. My mom isn't fantastic, but we have boundaries. I have complained about her here before though.  My ex's parents, OTOH, were fantastic.  I adored them and miss them all the time. Losing them was one reason the relationship lasted longer than it should have.  If ex died, I'd incorporate them into my life again.  But they work very hard on doing the right thing ALL THE TIME.  They're retired pastors, the kind I suspect will be hearing, "Well done good and faithful servant," when they die.  They are constantly evaluating everything they do to be more ethical and better and to help others.  I hope to be more like them when I'm their ages. I've given up hope of serving others that much with tiny children in the house.

[Halftime Hope]

17 minutes ago, Katy said:

  I hope to be more like them when I'm their ages. I've given up hope of serving others that much with tiny children in the house.

 

Just a reminder of something you already know.  Serving your tiny ones well is the best service to society you could perform, and no one but you could possibly do the job as well, and in all it's fullness; there are things that will never get done--small spots filled in their hearts and minds--unless you are there to do it.  {{Katy}}

[TechWife]

12 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Every time I read about unwanted in-laws I wonder if I am the only one feeling sadness. I have young boys. I would be devastated if one day my visits were received in such a way.  

They are family. Tell them to lay off the kids and enjoy the family. Time will come when we will lose our parents and all we will have are memories.  😞 

My son had very limited in-person contact with my parents due to distance (my husband's parents had died before he was born). I hope that I can see any grandchildren I might one day have more frequently than they were able to see them. However, respect is an important part of a relationship - respect between the grandparents and parents and the grandparents and the children. My parents never would have come to see us without planning ahead and asking if it was okay with us - it simply wouldn't have occurred to them. I don't intend to plan visits with the grandchildren without permission myself, unless there are extenuating circumstances (such as another event is bringing us to the same area), and then I would have to take into account that those would be my circumstances and I shouldn't impose my circumstances on other people. Asking if it's a good time for a visit and how long is a good length of time to stay is never in poor taste. In my casual, non-scientific observations, I think lack of respect is one thing that damages in-law/grandparent relationships more than any other thing. Lack of respect for parental responsibility, autonomy and individuality leads to a lot of poor behavior among family members.

As a personal rule of thumb, family members should be treated with as much or more respect than those outside the family.  If I wouldn't dream of just notifying a casual acquaintance of my impending, long visit, then I shouldn't dream of doing that same thing to a family member.

Edited December 12, 2018 by TechWife

[TechWife]

5 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

You say that as if the DIL in the situation is always the reasonable one.  These relationships are always a two way street and sometimes the grandma isn't doing anything to make herself unwelcome. Sometimes, it's the DIL who is unwelcoming, difficult to get along with, rude, etc.  (and sometimes it's the son in law, I know of that situation too.)  And it's really tough on grandparents who are loving and reasonable and want relationships with their grandkids (and their own adult children) but the adult child's spouse is the one who is difficult or even toxic. 

I realize this. However, relationships can't be forced. If the DIL is unwelcoming, rude, difficult to get along with, then the grandparents don't have to put up with it long term and can do what they can to mitigate the situation - plan ahead, ask "is this a good time?", stay in a hotel. Write letters or make use of phone calls more often than visits. But, Grandma can also sit down w/DIL and say "I think we're having a difficult time getting along, how can I make things better?"

[TechWife]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Agree with plan ahead, ask if it's a good time, phone calls, letters etc.

 

When a person (regardless of the letter in front of the IL acronym) is unreasonable, rude, etc, "I think we are having a difficult time, how can I make things better?" doesn't really work.  

 

In at least one situation, the answer was basically...................you are right, I don't want you involved in our lives.  This is my little island and you don't belong on it.  (that's a paraphrase, but an accurate description.)

It doesn't work in the heat of the moment, however, good conflict resolution skills demand that a conflict be addressed directly. The elephant in the room needs to be discussed at some point if there is to be growth in a relationship and if you want to develop a strong relationship.

If someone says that I am not wanted on their island, then it is my responsibility to engage in self reflection to determine if I am part of the problem and address it appropriately if I care to. Otherwise, it is still up to me how I react to that rejection. If someone is being unreasonable, and I really am just desiring typical interactions, then that is their issue, not mine. A loving, respectful response goes a long way to keeping doors open and softening hearts for possible future interactions. Sometimes we never know what motivates others, and we may never find out. There may be past hurts and issues in someone's life that are impacting his/her relationship with me, and there's nothing I can do about that. I can only control what I have responsibility for - what I say and what I do. It's not easy, and it's not always the natural, instinctive thing to do. But, it is part of being a mature person, IMO, to be able to recognize where our individual responsibilities lie within the various relationships we are engaged in throughout our lives. One of the reasons these conversations and interactions are so hard is that they can mean mourning lost relationships and unmet expectations. Relationships are just hard, period.

[TechWife]

3 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

If my father or MIL decided that arriving for an uninvited 2 week stay to break the news like this to my family AT CHRISTMAS, it would cement my belief that they are total drama queens and at best have incredibly poor boundaries and at worst are toxic.  Seriously, cancer for Christmas?  I can't think of a worse lasting memory to leave my family.  Every year at the holidays, they'll remember the time that grandma showed up with cancer for Christmas.  Yikes. Talk about melodrama. 

Cancer doesn't schedule according to holidays. It is the person who is ill who gets to decide when they are ready to share the information, how to share it and with whom to share it. Cancer is a body's ultimate rebellion against itself. It is something that a patient cannot control. Left unchecked, it's life changing at best and fatal at worst. One of the few things cancer patients can and should control is information sharing. Receiving bad news isn't about the recipient, it's about the person who is sharing the news. Most patients are concerned with how to share the bad news, but the timing is still their choice, not ours.

Maybe, just maybe, if we can learn to handle things with grace and respect, the children will remember that time Grandma told us she was sick with cancer and "we all rallied around her doing xyz." 

 

[TechWife]

3 hours ago, happi duck said:

This struck a nerve.  Cancer doesn't wait.  Having to tell people you have cancer is scary and it sucks.

My sister who died this spring felt funny telling people.  She was already hospitalized before I convinced her she wasn't being a bother.  I called loved ones to tell them. 

Some *dear* friends of hers I didn't know about didn't find out.  They were searching for her but extraordinary circumstances kept them from finding her before she died.

Diagnosis to death in my sister's case was two months.  Cancer doesn't wait.  Please don't talk about melodrama.  Comments like those are why my sister felt she shouldn't tell people.

I'm so sorry about your sister, happi duck. My deepest sympathies.

[TechWife]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

These things are all so much more complicated than a simple A and B relationship.  There are often many people involved.   And sometimes it just takes one toxic person to throw it all into crazy

Agreed. But, I never said it was easy. Relationships are complicated.  Mentally unstable people complicate things, but I'm still responsible for how I act and what I do within that relationship. rThere is always an if A than B, it just looks different and the A's and B's vary according to a situation. As individuals, circumstances limit our impact. Difficult situations are hard, no doubt about it. I've certainly see enough of them in their various combinations in my lifetime.

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

Cancer doesn't schedule according to holidays. It is the person who is ill who gets to decide when they are ready to share the information, how to share it and with whom to share it. Cancer is a body's ultimate rebellion against itself. It is something that a patient cannot control. Left unchecked, it's life changing at best and fatal at worst. One of the few things cancer patients can and should control is information sharing. Receiving bad news isn't about the recipient, it's about the person who is sharing the news. Most patients are concerned with how to share the bad news, but the timing is still their choice, not ours.

Maybe, just maybe, if we can learn to handle things with grace and respect, the children will remember that time Grandma told us she was sick with cancer and "we all rallied around her doing xyz." 

 

*sigh* This grandma doesn't even have cancer for all we know.  And if cancer doesn't wait, then why would this hypothetical grandma wait to tell everyone at Christmas?

Again, this was a hypothetical situation someone else brought up. 

This thread went from "My MIL invited herself over for 2 weeks at Christmas and it makes me want to cry" to "What if she has cancer?!?"  Come on, now.    

[SKL]

I still think MIL probably was chatting with DH and said, "hey, I was thinking this year I could fly out and visit you guys.  What are your vacation plans around the holidays?  Are you going anywhere or anything like that?  Any days you won't be home?" "Nah, we don't really have any plans, we're not going anywhere.  It would be great if you could come."  "Ok, I'll try to figure out some affordable plane tickets." "Cool, let me know your dates."

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

*sigh* This grandma doesn't even have cancer for all we know.  And if cancer doesn't wait, then why would this hypothetical grandma wait to tell everyone at Christmas?

Again, this was a hypothetical situation someone else brought up. 

This thread went from "My MIL invited herself over for 2 weeks at Christmas and it makes me want to cry" to "What if she has cancer?!?"  Come on, now.    

I know that. I am not reacting to the thread itself, which I am fully aware the mention of cancer was a hypothetical situation. I am reacting to your  response that you state you would have if your IL hypothetically delivered the news of cancer on a holiday visit. I found your hypothetical response to your hypothetical situation to be lacking in compassion, mercy, empathy and common decency. I suggest you revisit the reason why that is your hypothetical response and address whatever you need to in your life in order to be able to handle bad news appropriately. The answer is not to blame grandma or anyone else for ruining a holiday. It simply isn't appropriate, nor is it necessary for a diagnosis like this to ruin a family gathering in the first place. Handled appropriately with empathy, compassion & respect it could create some lovely family memories. Delivering a cancer diagnosis to family members is done on the terms of the patient, not on those of the family members. It is not ruining a special event, or an ordinary day, in a loving family environment. It is a self centered thing for the patient to do. There is no other way to do it - a patient's cancer diagnosis is about them, period. Cancer patients must be self centered if they are going to seek treatment toward recovery or if they have decided not to seek treatment. It is all about them - it has to be if they are going to enjoy life as much as they can and are going to build support systems for themselves and immediate family. There is a lot to attend to.  People who deliver their cancer diagnosis are not 'drama queens' with 'poor boundaries' that are now 'toxic'. Even if a person in your life regularly has boundary and behavior issues, announcing a cancer diagnosis at the time and place of their choosing is not one of them.

[Shoeless]

59 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I found your hypothetical response to your hypothetical situation to be lacking in compassion, mercy, empathy and common decency. I suggest you revisit the reason why that is your hypothetical response and address whatever you need to in your life in order to be able to handle bad news appropriately. 

 

What a nasty thing to say. You don't know the first thing about me or my life or the people in it.  My stepmother died of pancreatic cancer, six weeks after her diagnosis.  Her diagnosis came 3 years after her double lung transplant.  

But I'm sure you've got all the how's and why's of my response to those situations figured out, so I won't bore you with the ugly details of my life. 

 

[TechWife]

3 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

What a nasty thing to say. You don't know the first thing about me or my life or the people in it.  My stepmother died of pancreatic cancer, six weeks after her diagnosis.  Her diagnosis came 3 years after her double lung transplant.  

But I'm sure you've got all the how's and why's of my response to those situations figured out, so I won't bore you with the ugly details of my life. 

 

Given this information,  I am honestly shocked that your hypothetical reaction in your hypothetical scenario was so lacking in empathy. However, it doesn't' change my assessment of it.

None of us knows all of the details of each others lives, but I can tell you illness & death is something that has visited our family frequently. Between my husband and I we have buried four parents, one step-parent and three brothers. We have dealt with two major life changing illnesses with our son, a lifelong kidney disease that resulted from one of them and then there's the matter of a developmental disability. So, yeah, I know how to hear and to give bad news.

I don't think you read my entire post, though.

I am truly, very sorry for the loss of your mother in law.

[Acadie]

12 hours ago, Katy said:

 

So I have a theory about this- girls hash out difficult relationships with their mothers before they get married, often when they're only 9-12.  They develop boundaries.  They tell their mothers to not overstep.  Boys just shrug and leave it alone until their wives put their feet down about MIL overstepping.

 

Just wanted to say I've been mulling over your theory and I think it's brilliant. Somehow it helps me see the potential for conflict with more compassion for everyone involved. Also helps me feel better about our current trials and tribulations with dd12 🙂

So thank you!

Amy

Edited December 12, 2018 by Acadie