S/O how to prepare for elder parents care

[Pen]

What should be being done to prepare ahead of time for self getting older and someday needing care if there is not a sudden death while relatively well?

And same for our parents to the extent that can be done?

[regentrude]

Save, save, save.

Make sure paperwork is in order: will, medical and financial POA; list of all assets and where to find them. Make sure family knows your wishes for life prolonging measures.

Make home senior friendly and safe. There are organizations that come do home inspections and point out what can be done to lessen the chance of falls and accidents. Bathrooms and stairs are big issues. 

Be active to preserve flexibility and balance to lessen chance of falls. Maintain healthy weight, get regular preventive care.

Declutter. Getting rid of stuff while well and healthy will make it easier and less overwhelming to move if that should be necessary.

Engage in community. Build a strong network of connections; this has been shown to ward off dementia, and it also provides a safety net.

[regentrude]

Oh, and another thought: build good family relationships. Don't piss off your kids or their significant other. It will be much easier to find solutions and help if your kids actually LIKE you.

[regentrude]

and another, prompted by pitterpatter's saga in the other thread: make a plan for your pets! Anticipate needing to move when elderly. It is NOT reasonable to expect your caregiver to take care of critters as well. Do not acquire an animal with a long lifespan if you cannot reasonably expect to be healthy enough to care for it for that much time.

[BarbecueMom]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

and another, prompted by pitterpatter's saga in the other thread: make a plan for your pets! Anticipate needing to move when elderly. It is NOT reasonable to expect your caregiver to take care of critters as well. Do not acquire an animal with a long lifespan if you cannot reasonably expect to be healthy enough to care for it for that much time.

There is a no-kill animal shelter near us that will take in your pet and care for it or rehome if you leave a contribution to the shelter in your estate planning.

[Pawz4me]

The thing my parents did that helped me the most, besides letting me know their end of life wishes well ahead of time, was to have money and to make sure I had very easy access to it. My name and/or my brother’s name was on everything, including their checking and savings accounts. We also had their POAs (for health care and business). Our names were added to all their accounts and investments as soon as we were adults. It takes a great deal of trust to do that, especially when more than a few dollars are involved, and of course that type of total access while the parents are still relatively young and healthy may not be the right thing for everyone to do. But it made it so much easier for us to take care of them when the time came.

[pitterpatter]

I have no idea. All this sounds great, if you can. It's a whole other ballgame when life throws you continuous curve balls. In my case, should we save, or spend money making memories for my daughter with her father? (He was given a 5-10 life expectancy about eight years ago.) What about when your husband is fired at age 40 through no fault of his own and is forced to take another job at much less pay? Btw, this happens all the time. We didn't pay attention until it happened to him. The government seriously needs to do something about these unethical business practices.

My only suggestion, live well beneath your means. Save and hide money beneath your mattress.

[Katy]

Understand the difference between assisted living (often an overpriced scam with no more care than a neighbor checking on you) and a nursing home (well regulated with as much care as you need), and learn how to research which places are best near you, and which have had multiple state violations. Don't choose a place with high staff turnover or particularly progressive management policies, both are bad signs that on a day to day basis no one is taking responsibility for bad decisions.

If you can afford LTC insurance, buy it.

Make it clear to your kids that you don't want or expect them to caregive, just sell your crap and move you into a nice nursing home.

When you can no longer care for your pets or your stuff, rehome the pets and sell or donate the stuff.

 

[BarbecueMom]

So what should one be doing now, with a parent that has $0 to their name, is approaching “retirement age” (60) and is already needing occasional financial support while still working full time?  What does this look like at 62, 65, 70, as far as finances and SS and Medicare and such?  What happens when they suddenly can’t work?  What are we looking at, expense/time wise, just to keep her not-homeless?  What can we NOT do or it’ll affect getting Medicaid if needed at some point?

Multigenerational living is not an option here (BTDT, can’t do it again).

[elegantlion]

Talk, talk, and talk about it with the necessary people. My dad was sick for two years before he passed away. He never got to the point that my mom couldn't care for him, but that would have happened soon if he had lived. My mom has all her faculties and buckled down and sold her house, had an auction, and we got a house together. It was one of the choices that was thoroughly discussed while my dad was living. My mom is very open about her finances and detailed about the paperwork. But this was not a one time conversation, these chats happened often over that two year period. 

Between me, ds, and my mom, there is one either as joint account holder or POD on all of our checking, savings, and investment accounts. There is enough life insurance to bury any of us and we have a decent idea of what that would cost. Plots are purchased and my mom had her name put on the double headstone when my dad's was purchased. We're having discussions about what might happen should she become incapacitated. Some of the actions we've taken will help mitigate the emotional distress and family discord should I or she become ill or die. 

We've discussed what to do with her stuff. I have a relative that died and had supposedly made a list of what they wanted done with some of their material possessions, things given to family. Their son couldn't find the list for a long while and it cause a lot of emotional distress as he tried to honor her wishes. 

There are some things we still need to work on, yet we've discussed them, just not finalized wishes or expenses for example. Questions I've asked myself are things like: At what point healthwise does care become too much for me? What are the options and how much do they cost? How can I honor my mother (we're very close -which is why living together works - I know she'll want to stay in her house as long as possible) and still maintain myself as a person? What happens if my health declines first (I have some chronic issues)? What expectations do we have of how ds will be involved in our care? What about relatives that are going to be a challenge to deal with? What happens if I get married again? 

The summer we all moved into together was rough, so many circumstances made it so emotional and physically challenging. My mom is strong (both mentally and physically) and we all had anxiety all summer. In many areas things just had to be cut so that we could essentially start over living together. Again, because we had talked so much about it, we knew it was the right choice. Now we have to work on the next step in the process.

 

[BarbecueMom]

30 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

What type of housing situation is this person currently maintaining? Are there health issues involved?

If this person is able to live independently (reasonably healthy), I'd start by looking at how s/he could live more frugally - shared apartment, government subsidized housing, that kind of thing. Your/their local council on aging may be a good place to start. Honestly, in the absence of chronic health issues, 60 is young and the major options are to increase income or cut expenses until social security eligibility is reached. Hopefully someone else will chime in with more info to offer you. 

You can also read up on Medicare. Medicare for Dummies is a real and helpful book. 

 

 

 

She rents, sibling also lives there and contributes to rent, groceries, and car repair, but he’s in a low-salary career field and isn’t really self supporting on his own.  Her salary covers bills, sibling’s contribution covers “spending” - gas, groceries, odds and ends.  Neither her salary nor sib’s contribution goes far enough. She’s not an extravagant spender, but is a picky, routine eater and hesitant to change things in the diet to make it cheaper or healthier (I did have success with getting her to quit buying single-cup yogurts!).

Honestly, half of her problem is bad decisions combined with poor/poorly understood advice (I see a lot of her in the posts people make about issues with adult kids with ASD or EF struggles), the other half is that she had two kids without ever having a partner and worked in a “second-household income” type career field without a primary income to support it.

Health is stable, gets good routine care, but has a history of heart issues.

She’s worried if she moves somewhere smaller/cheaper that it will be too small or sketchy to let my kids spend the night there.  Unfortunately, she isn’t wrong.

I just worry about a sudden turn before she can draw SS or have Medicare or be eligible/able to utilize senior housing (and that can’t happen until sibling can afford his own place).  A credit card judgment from a bill that was run up when she was hospitalized several years ago and not working during recovery wiped out her entire savings.  There’s literally nothing other than paychecks.  And what happens when she can’t even work part-time anymore.

[mathnerd]

5 hours ago, regentrude said:

Oh, and another thought: build good family relationships. Don't piss off your kids or their significant other. It will be much easier to find solutions and help if your kids actually LIKE you.

This times 1000. I am literally witnessing the squirming of the older people in my family who pissed off the significant others of their kids when they were younger and thought they would live forever - their lifestyles and situations would have turned out vastly differently had there been genuine respect and affection for the kids and their SOs.

[Carrie12345]

I think I lost the post I was writing on the other thread.

I'm considering what's feasible for getting a small home in a better location for elderly people. (Hospitals, doctors, transportation, delivery services, etc.)  I love where I am but, if I ever lose my ability to drive while out here, I'm pretty sunk.

I've been lazy with taking care of my health for the past year or so, and I need to change that. My mind wants to play tricks on me by pretending that I can "catch up" in my 50s when I have more time to eat well and be fit.  I doubt my cardiovascular system is getting the message.

I'm not someone who understands "bored" (I also have ADHD,) so I can't really relate to the idea of having nothing to do, but it's clearly important to have hobbies.  I'd like to make sure I have a wide variety that covers multiple scenarios.  I know it was a very difficult thing for my grandmother when a combination of arthritis and loss of eyesight took away so many of her activities, knitting in particular.

I hope to continually communicate with my kids and spouse about my wishes for my care AND my desire to have them divvy up whatever unavoidable burdens there might be.  My grandmother's 3 kids have split things the best they're able to, within each of their resources.  One handles all the POA stuff from a geographical distance.  One provides financial assistance and does most of the visiting.  One has been doing the bulk of medical coordination.  They still fight, and it isn't all equal, but it's a coordinated effort.  And that's with 24/7 care in a nursing home, so there's still much to do.

As far as my own parents, I've attempted to have conversations about the future, and my mom just won't participate!  I'm sure I'll make continued attempts as time keeps going by, but my bottom line is that, if you're not going to participate in your own planning, I'm not going to entertain complaints or completely derail the plans I make for my own family in lieu of a coordinated plan with my FOO.  For example, Mom shows no interest in relocating.  So, if and when I buy a new home, I'm not going to intentionally spend more money to accommodate the almost nonexistent possibility of her moving in.  If she were to discuss it as something she'd be open to, I'd be more likely to make that investment. Instead, I'll focus on getting a lower mortgage paid off faster so I have less to worry about in my own future.

[livetoread]

I’ve been looking at assisted living places with my folks, and we have concluded that, in least in our area, if you have a choice, the ones run by religious organizations are probably a better bet. There are for profit places, but having watched them over the years, they often change ownership and what was good at one time can quickly go downhill under different management that wants to squeeze more money out. The two religious ones have been consistent for decades, and the best nursing home in the metro area is associated with one of them. It’s all $$$$ though, and figuring out the timing to move in so that you benefit from the services you are paying for and aren’t stuck on a waiting list is ideal.

 

[MysteryJen]

Sometimes the best way to talk to your parents is by asking them about their friends. I have learned much about my dmil's finances and plans by them telling me about the terrible stuff that has happened around them. Things like falls in the night, the tipping point of dementia, children who swoop in and take over in an abrupt and harsh way, worries about driving, figuring out food and doctor's appointments. That way you can talk about "what if that happens to them?" Do they have a plan? How will they pay for drivers, home help, house cleaning, etc.?

My dmil is well situated financially and mentally. She is on the waiting list for an assisted living apartment (at least a two year wait, she is 82). She has funds to pay for what she needs, and she is kind and grateful and independent, but not unrealistic. She expects to spend down all her money and is generous Now to her children and grandchildren. She wants to stay in her house, but understands that it might not be possible. She takes excellent care of herself and is in great shape physically, although she is starting to have some balance issues, due to foot problems. She and her dh (who died suddenly 10 years ago) designed the house to age in place.

My mom wants to stay in her house. Not designed to age in place in any way. She only talks about how her friends have lovely caring children who do everything for them. My brother, and sister, and I, by implication, are none of those things. My brother and I have encouraged her to pay for lawn service and other things because we believe that she should sell her paid for, hugely overvalued house, now. My sister, though she doesn't do anything to help, wants her to keep the house to pass it on. My mother is in good shape, with a decent retirement (pension), and could easily live for 20 more years. But she can't in that house. It will take a crisis to change any of the conversations.

I plan to be a grown up in my conversations with my children. I am going to get old, I am going to get frail, my money might not be enough to sustain living independently. Pretending that isn't going to happen is not helpful for anyone. And I will not be selfish. I was unselfish in raising my kids, I swear I will be unselfish in my final years with them.

[maize]

I'd love a single floor living arrangement, our current home is split entry so there is no way to avoid stairs. My paternal grandparents had a great set up, everything they needed was on the main floor of the home and they had a finished basement set up for guests--they never had to go down there. 

MIL passed away last year, FIL I think has assets sufficient to pay for assisted living if he needs it. I'm a bit concerned he will try to save so there is something to pass down, really with 9 children to split any inheritance it couldn't go far. 

My parents...dad has Parkinsons and I worry about mom trying to care for him indefinitely on her own; they don't live anywhere near any of us kids. Mom I expect to live into the triple digits, I know several of us would be happy to take her in at some point. There are enough to split the load. 

[Carol in Cal.]

For ourselves, what we are doing--we live in a single story house in a city that has reasonably priced public transportation (like a taxi service) for the disabled.

We have long term care insurance.

We have identified a couple of assisted living places that would be acceptable to us.  We do need to write those down.

We're connected with folks at church and elsewhere, although not as much as we should be.  I need to dig into reclaiming our home and making it a place where we can entertain (has not been for 14 years.)  I'm realistic about the fact that our cabin is not an aging in place environment, much as we would like it to be.  

We are thinking of building a small cottage in our fairly deep urban back yard, that would be even more accessible (no steps at all, lever doorknobs, high toilets, grab bars, walk in shower, etc.) than our home is.  Then we could live there and rent out the house, which is in a neighborhood that is experiencing rent appreciation, and make enough income to hire help before the long term care insurance would kick in.  This would be spartan but safe and comfortable living.  In the meantime, before we need it, we would be able to host people in need there, friends who are recuperating from surgery or whatever.  That way also if MIL does run out of money, which seems likely, but does not qualify for Medicaid (questionable), we would have a better place to host her, although I think that by then we would need to be in the same house due to dementia maybe.  

We have an estate plan, but sometime in the next 3-5 years will go back and revise it as DD is old enough to be more responsible than when we first did it.

I guess we need to buy cemetery plots.  

We are still working and hope to be able to save enough to supplement our insurance when the time comes.  We stay mentally fit, but not as much physically.  I need to work on that more than DH, but we both should pay more attention.  That's going to take retiring to pull off however.  

All this will fall apart if MIL ends up needing care that we have to pay for.  We don't make enough to cover this, but we are the only available option in the extended family, so we will step up and cover it out of our savings.  I am not happy about this, but I have to say she pretty much did the best she could and deserves to have good care, and even if she didn't, she is family.  I fear that this will run us into a bind personally, but that is one of the reasons why we don't have a definite retirement date set.  Thankfully our health is good enough to hope to keep working as long as we choose.  Fingers crossed (all 10 of them, in prayer).  

Planning is crucial but it only takes you so far.

 

[solascriptura]

Planning the housing situation is so crucial in all of this.  I recently convinced my parents to downsize to a home just a few minutes from mine.  They were previously in a rural area located far from all of their children.  Their recent move has allowed them to have more frequent visits from all of us, more time with their grandkids, less home to maintain, a more active social life (because their new church is just a few minutes from their home), much closer to all the shops (they can walk if necessary), and local hospitals.  The benefits go far beyond those that I listed.  Whether you or your parents are in that "I'll die before I'll move from my home" please reconsider this.  It will make it far, far easier for everyone if the housing and location can accommodate an aging person.  Personally, their move has allowed me to care (not too much yet) for them much more easily.  I love my parent's dearly and want to do the best that I can do for them and I don't want to become bitter or sacrifice my own family to care for them.   Their old home had me driving to them for over 1 hour one way just to help them with their bills or computer.  

[Pen]

I’d like to follow up more on housing issues people have raised.

I had asked about bank that could operate long distance not long ago because we needed to have something joint set up for far flung family who might need long distance help in various ways. 

So now the long distance joint account is in process of being set up. 

But even better would be not to have individual older family members in several different states, mostly rural where nothing can be accessed without vehicle, and all far from each other. Mostly this will have to be as it is.  One uncle has already been settled into a nursing home in another state, for example. 

But I want to figure out a way to have my mother closer such as in a cottage right here where I live, or create a duplex-ish sort of dwelling that can handle multiple generations and aging in place as much as possible.  something that would still give some get away from each other space for kids, and 2 other generations so as not to drive one another batty.  But also give ability to help directly as can not be done at 3000 or even 300 or without difficulty 30 miles away. 

Ideally this same age in place sort of something would then work again as I am at that stage. 

 

Another thing I realized is that having a joint account is a step.  But as I learned things like that my uncle in nursing home was having liens placed on his home due to non payment of bills, there needs to be accessible info about what bills there are and to whom...what needs to keep being paid, what such as utilities might need to be shut off* if someone is in a care location.     ...especially if in a long distance situation where one cannot just check the mail. 

 

* but I also learned that off doesn’t necessarily mean fees will stop. There may be base fees that continue in some places even if, say, water and power are off. 

 

[solascriptura]

43 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

One other thing that was super helpful in my dad's last days:  he had spelled out his end-of-life wishes.  And as much as you agree with what they have said about DNR, when it comes right down to saying it out loud to the doctor at 2am, it's really really hard.  I don't think I could have said my dad's wishes had he not written them down himself and been very clear about it.  It would not have been malicious of me, it just would not have been possible to say, "Yeah.  Please stop with the extraordinary measures."  It's my dad.  Right?

 

I agree with this 100%.  However, it's also good to review the points periodically.  Recently after reading Being Mortal, I asked my mom about her wishes and she said that she absolutely wanted no intervention and said that she already had everything spelled out in a document typed up 15 years ago.  I was relieved until I read the said document.  It clearly stated that she wanted "any measure that the doctor deemed helpful."  I considered the contradictions and realized that a person's wishes can change over the years (perhaps without remembering what was  originally in them) and should be reviewed regularly to make sure that opinions and feelings are still lined up with what is in the documents.  Sigh.  

[LucyStoner]

17 hours ago, Seasider too said:

You can't give away (gift or donate) assets, sell assets for less than fair market value, cash out assets without a very clear paper trail of how the money was spent (i.e.major reason why reverse mortgages are view with skepticism), can't have more than $1-3K cash in the bank (amount varies by state). People run into trouble when they try to quickly and improperly liquidate assets to get under the minimum requirements so a person can qualify for aid. And I am speaking specifically about Medicaid for long term care, which also requires a physicians statement that such a level of care needed. You can't go live in a nursing home just because you're poor.  

1

 

Medicaid has a 5-year look back.  They will look back for sale or transfer of assets at below market rates for 5 years.  If family relationships are solid, some folks plan ahead and transfer the family home or a cabin to their heirs long before they might need care.  

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

 

Yep and that 60 month lookback is a.... to keep it clean, I'll just say it's a huge stumbling block for many. Gotta do things early in the game. That's why elder care lawyers *earn* their money. 

 

So another question seems to be how to find a good lawyer?

[Pen]

On 7/27/2018 at 6:59 PM, pitterpatter said:

I have no idea. All this sounds great, if you can. It's a whole other ballgame when life throws you continuous curve balls. In my case, should we save, or spend money making memories for my daughter with her father? (

Can memories be made without a lot of spending money?

Quote

He was given a 5-10 life expectancy about eight years ago.) What about when your husband is fired at age 40 through no fault of his own and is forced to take another job at much less pay? Btw, this happens all the time. We didn't pay attention until it happened to him. The government seriously needs to do something about these unethical business practices.

 

Yes. That is a big problem. Also when sickness results in not being able to work and thus not having medical bill insurance coverage if it was through work.  

Or losing savings due to economic downturns often related to greed and graft at bank or corporate levels it seems.  

Quote

My only suggestion, live well beneath your means. Save and hide money beneath your mattress.

 

Though things can happen to mattress money too. 

[Hoggirl]

My in-laws want to age in place.  They have the resources to do that, at least for awhile.  They do live in a one-story home that has some wide-doorways (they did this intentionally when they built the house 15 years ago), that would accommodate a wheelchair, but I don’t think their home is as handicap accessible as they perceive it to be.  They aren’t in wheelchairs at this point anyway.  Time will tell, I suppose.  Sil is 45 minutes away.  We are 1,000 miles away, so the bulk of the care (if and when needed) is going to fall to sil. 
 

What is frustrating to me is their stance of “never” moving out of their home.  It’s fine to have that as a goal, but it’s not very realistic.  They can’t fathom a need to ever do that.  Huh?  I am very much in the camp of “never say never.” I would prefer to be proactive rather than reactive.  They don’t have a ton of carp, but they have way more space and stuff than they need.  Their home is about 2,200 sq ft. 

For us, we have already done the major downsize and purged our stuff.  My goal for old age is to be sweet and compliant.  That seems unlikely given that I am currently neither (this is why it’s a goal).  I have told our only ds that when we become infirm we will move near to wherever he is. Not move in WITH him, just near him.  In whatever type of place is best for all of us.  I want to be close to him so it easy for him to serve as the manager/administrator of our care.  So he can check in on us.  So if (when) there is a crisis, at least we are physically close so as to be less disruptive to his life.  I would not have my inlaws live with me.  Fil is insufferable.  I would absolutely financially help support them living elsewhere if that need were to arise.  If the ever need more physical help than sil is willing or able to give, they are welcome to move to our area, and I will manage/administer their care somewhere OTHER than in my home. I will not uproot my life to move to where they are. This is where I think the elderly become unreasonable. 

[Pen]

I think a problem can be 

9 minutes ago, Hoggirl said:

 I have told our only ds that when we become infirm we will move near to wherever he is. N

 

that it can be hard to move after becoming infirm. 

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Hoggirl said:

My in-laws want to age in place.  They have the resources to do that, at least for awhile.  They do live in a one-story home that has some wide-doorways (they did this intentionally when they built the house 15 years ago), that would accommodate a wheelchair, but I don’t think their home is as handicap accessible as they perceive it to be.  They aren’t in wheelchairs at this point anyway.  Time will tell, I suppose.  Sil is 45 minutes away.  We are 1,000 miles away, so the bulk of the care (if and when needed) is going to fall to sil. 
 

What is frustrating to me is their stance of “never” moving out of their home.  It’s fine to have that as a goal, but it’s not very realistic.  They can’t fathom a need to ever do that.  Huh?  I am very much in the camp of “never say never.” I would prefer to be proactive rather than reactive.  They don’t have a ton of carp, but they have way more space and stuff than they need.  Their home is about 2,200 sq ft. 

For us, we have already done the major downsize and purged our stuff.  My goal for old age is to be sweet and compliant.  That seems unlikely given that I am currently neither (this is why it’s a goal).  I have told our only ds that when we become infirm we will move near to wherever he is. Not move in WITH him, just near him.  In whatever type of place is best for all of us.  I want to be close to him so it easy for him to serve as the manager/administrator of our care.  So he can check in on us.  So if (when) there is a crisis, at least we are physically close so as to be less disruptive to his life.  I would not have my inlaws live with me.  Fil is insufferable.  I would absolutely financially help support them living elsewhere if that need were to arise.  If the ever need more physical help than sil is willing or able to give, they are welcome to move to our area, and I will manage/administer their care somewhere OTHER than in my home. I will not uproot my life to move to where they are. This is where I think the elderly become unreasonable.

 

But are your in-laws actually asking you to uproot your life to move to where they are? It’s not unreasonable for them to want to remain in the home they love for as long as possible, and you’re not really in a position to decide whether or not it’s realistic for them to do that. It’s also not for you to judge whether they have “way more space and stuff than they need.” 

How old are your in-laws?

[regentrude]

53 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

It’s also not for you to judge whether they have “way more space and stuff than they need.” 

I absolutely reserve the right to judge that my parents have way more stuff than they need - because *I* will be the person saddled with all the stuff that fills their house.  Any attempt to get my 82 y/o father to reduce his ample possessions has been futile; mom would love to, at least a little, but dad is stubborn and has already announced that, if he ever has to move out of the house, he will NOT clean out but simply lock the door and leave us, IOW me, to deal with the stuff. Oh, believe me, I judge. Because it will be my problem in the not too far future. So I have the right to a strong opinion.

[Sneezyone]

24 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I absolutely reserve the right to judge that my parents have way more stuff than they need - because *I* will be the person saddled with all the stuff that fills their house.  Any attempt to get my 82 y/o father to reduce his ample possessions has been futile; mom would love to, at least a little, but dad is stubborn and has already announced that, if he ever has to move out of the house, he will NOT clean out but simply lock the door and leave us, IOW me, to deal with the stuff. Oh, believe me, I judge. Because it will be my problem in the not too far future. So I have the right to a strong opinion.

 

Yep, this. I tried to get my mom to downsize three years ago when she moved out of a 4000 sq foot house. Nope, she put all the stuff (including a baby grand piano) in storage until she finds a new home. I do like some of her things but the odds of me disposing of my own stuff to move hers in is slim/none. My mother is actually talking about building a new duplex for her, her equally old friend, and my disabled sister to share. I am not amused.

[Hoggirl]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

I think a problem can be 

 

that it can be hard to move after becoming infirm. 

True!  That was a poor word choice.  I will try to do it proactively/preemptively.

[Hoggirl]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

But are your in-laws actually asking you to uproot your life to move to where they are? It’s not unreasonable for them to want to remain in the home they love for as long as possible, and you’re not really in a position to decide whether or not it’s realistic for them to do that. It’s also not for you to judge whether they have “way more space and stuff than they need.” 

How old are your in-laws?

Oh, no.  Absolutely not.  I’m sure sil wishes we were closer. I mentioned that because my uncle’s wife (my aunt by marriage) and uncle did that for her mother.  She didn’t want to move.  Period.  I wouldn’t make the choice they did. 

They are 82 and 79 - so not that old. I have no issues with what they are wanting to do.  I certainly hope they can do it.  I just think it’s unrealistic to assume that remaining in place is always workable.  They seem incapable of imagining any other scenario.  

[Hoggirl]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I absolutely reserve the right to judge that my parents have way more stuff than they need - because *I* will be the person saddled with all the stuff that fills their house.  Any attempt to get my 82 y/o father to reduce his ample possessions has been futile; mom would love to, at least a little, but dad is stubborn and has already announced that, if he ever has to move out of the house, he will NOT clean out but simply lock the door and leave us, IOW me, to deal with the stuff. Oh, believe me, I judge. Because it will be my problem in the not too far future. So I have the right to a strong opinion.

I have a friend whose dad just laughs at her every time she tries to get him to cull/purge/clean out.  He just stretches out his arms in the house (or the vacation home), looks around and says, “Someday, this will all be yours!” He does not care one iota that she will be burdened with that task.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I have a 74yo friend who just did the Swedish death cleaning, with his lovely wife. (They didn't call it that, but same principle.) They are my role models for everything related to aging: They are active, healthy, and always willing to face the future frankly and honestly. He said he'd had to contend with his *grandfather's* stuff in the attic, and his father's stuff in the shed! I asked him how he felt about all the antiques and heirlooms and memories. He looked kind of disgusted and said, "It's all just stuff, you know. No longer serving any purpose but to weigh on my mind!"

Once I realized that he had zero emotional issues with the process, I went ahead and asked for details. He said they'd hired a consultant, to help them tackle it all. This is how they did it:

1. Declutter and deep clean kitchen and related areas like laundry and pantry. (Keep what you want, stash the rest anywhere but this room.)

2. Declutter and deep clean one bedroom and a living room or sitting room. (See above.)

3. Empty one good-sized bedroom entirely. This is the staging room.

So you live in the kitchen, one bedroom, and living room, as you go through this process. Move through the house and property in several sweeps:

4. First step is keeping. Anything you are sure that you, personally, want around you for the rest of the days, you move to the staging room. If you intend to keep a guest room, don't forget to save items for it.

5. Second step is "for the family." Don't just say, "This should be kept in the family." If you don't have some connection where you can say, "This will be special to Billy," or "Diane always loved this and it belongs in her home now," or even "Susie can sell these," or "the grandkids could take this couch and table for their new apartment," then it's neither an heirloom nor of value. Label these "for the family" items with specific names.

6. Third step is to tell the children that you are paring down and decluttering, to see if they speak up for anything. Don't offer, and for goodness' sakes don't have them all come over and start pawing through everything. Actually, don't let them. But this is their chance to speak up, if they always hoped to inherit XYZ item. (George said he skipped this step. He'd been trying to give the kids and grandkids stuff for years and felt like they had everything they cared about, and he was on a mission to just get this done.)

7. Call an antiques dealer, if you have antiques. Tell him there will be one conversation, so make sure he looks at everything. You don't want to know every little detail, just give you a total number on what he'll give for the items he wants. If you have very valuable stuff, get more than one quote. When you are happy with somebody's quote, sell. (Skip this step if you know you don't have anything good.)

8. Call a furniture or junk man, if you still have stuff that somebody might want but you don't want to sort it, yet you want a little money for it. Or call a mission, like an outreach church or an immigration center, to tell them they may come look at the furniture and household stuff, and they may have whatever they can haul away. If you have a relative who just can't stand this, to the point that SHE wants to do a yard sale, let her, but only one day or weekend. (This step is optional, because a lot of people don't even realize how worthless their broken down chairs and lead-filled, scratched up old dishes are.)

9. Now you need a trash hauler to come get everything that's left. Nobody wants it. Nobody needs it. 

10. Finally, clean your empty house and outbuildings. Look at the stuff in your staging room, and spread it out as you like. Now that it's all uncluttered and clear to view, after a decent interval you might want to make a list of needed repairs, upgrades, or modifications. 

 

You know what, I just remembered that my FIL and his wife did this at only 65 years old. They had a three story house full of fabulous and interesting stuff, because they were collectors and crafters who worked from home! They let it ALL go, in stages because they did bring in a lot of dealers for antiques and tools, and moved to a condo in Florida. That was 18 years ago and they still don't regret it.

 

 

[Pen]

On 7/27/2018 at 7:23 PM, Patty Joanna said:

 

More:  Put all the documents like the POA and the health care directive and so on in a cloud location so you can access it when your Mom ends up in the hospital and they listen to a darned thing you say until all the paperwork is in front of them.

 

 

I have been asking about this of others too, and just heard a story where the important stuff was put in a safety deposit box, included the documents that would give POA allowing someone else access to the box. 

[HS Mom in NC]

4 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

But are your in-laws actually asking you to uproot your life to move to where they are? It’s not unreasonable for them to want to remain in the home they love for as long as possible, and you’re not really in a position to decide whether or not it’s realistic for them to do that. It’s also not for you to judge whether they have “way more space and stuff than they need.” 

How old are your in-laws?

Have you ever been the person who had to clean out a house and workshop worth of stuff and make the house ready for sale when an elderly person had a catastrophic medical event that made them completely dependent on you? Do you know that many second hand places don't take furniture donations because they're at capacity? Some landfills charge to dump large amounts.  Selling online is a time consuming process. Getting a house on the market to help fund the expenses that come with full time elder care is overwhelming.  Each of those individually is overwhelming. And what if it all has to be done by someone who doesn't live nearby? Out of state?  On the other side of the country?  I agree that if it doesn't affect you then you should say nothing.  If it does affect you, then I think it's appropriate to point out to them how it will affect you.

[HS Mom in NC]

1. Whatever the doctor tells you to do, do it.  Stop eating junk.  Start eating high quality foods.  Start walking regularly.   Stretch. Develop interests that match your mobility levels. Connect with community.
2.  I downsized by 50% going into this house at age 45. I think I'm going to do serious purges every 5 years. Not just "what am I not using now" purges, but mentally purging my stages of life as they go.  I'm no longer in a serious hiker stage of life with the knee injury.  Now I'm a moderate hiker. I'm no longer a homeschooling mom in general, I'm a last stages homeschooling mom with a 13 year old, so all the K-6th grade stuff is gone. Things like that.
3.  I think about my last stages and what they might be.  When I think about putting in tile, I ask myself what will sell well because eventually the house will be sold to someone else.  That doesn't mean I can't pick what I like best from options that will likely sell well. I think about what it would be like living with each of my kids because that might happen.  I think about what kind of assisted living facility I might like because that might happen. I think about the hospice facility my grandmother was in and what a good job they did there because that might happen.  I think about living in a nursing home because that might happen. 
 

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

My in-laws want to age in place.  They have the resources to do that, at least for awhile.  They do live in a one-story home that has some wide-doorways (they did this intentionally when they built the house 15 years ago), that would accommodate a wheelchair, but I don’t think their home is as handicap accessible as they perceive it to be.  They aren’t in wheelchairs at this point anyway.  Time will tell, I suppose.  Sil is 45 minutes away.  We are 1,000 miles away, so the bulk of the care (if and when needed) is going to fall to sil. 
 

What is frustrating to me is their stance of “never” moving out of their home.  It’s fine to have that as a goal, but it’s not very realistic.  They can’t fathom a need to ever do that.  Huh?  I am very much in the camp of “never say never.” I would prefer to be proactive rather than reactive.  They don’t have a ton of carp, but they have way more space and stuff than they need.  Their home is about 2,200 sq ft. 

For us, we have already done the major downsize and purged our stuff.  My goal for old age is to be sweet and compliant.  That seems unlikely given that I am currently neither (this is why it’s a goal).  I have told our only ds that when we become infirm we will move near to wherever he is. Not move in WITH him, just near him.  In whatever type of place is best for all of us.  I want to be close to him so it easy for him to serve as the manager/administrator of our care.  So he can check in on us.  So if (when) there is a crisis, at least we are physically close so as to be less disruptive to his life.  I would not have my inlaws live with me.  Fil is insufferable.  I would absolutely financially help support them living elsewhere if that need were to arise.  If the ever need more physical help than sil is willing or able to give, they are welcome to move to our area, and I will manage/administer their care somewhere OTHER than in my home. I will not uproot my life to move to where they are. This is where I think the elderly become unreasonable. 

The bolded made me LOL.   I too am taking notes on how to not be unreasonable in my old age.  

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

The bolded made me LOL.   I too am taking notes on how to not be unreasonable in my old age.  

 

I think the problem is that everyone thinks they’re being reasonable — it’s other people who are being unreasonable! ?

[Hoggirl]

8 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

And of course, you can’t open the safety deposit box without proving you have POA.  We were told to put important payers in the freezer do they could be accessed in case of death or loss of consciousness.  Not in the safe.  

?

You can add a person to your safety deposit box. There is some paperwork to fill out if you don’t do it when you open it initially.  We added my fil when we did our expat assignment for two years. 

[Pen]

14 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

While a safety deposit box is a good place to store the original documents, people are just as (I think more!) likely to need emergency assistance during nonbanking hours, when you won't have access to a copy. So you want certified copies of these papers in a location you can reach them 24/7. The cloud storage is a great idea if (a) your device and available wireless are not fickle and (2) if you don't need a certified copy or get the ok to provide one later. I believe some of our  legal and financial transactions required certified, medical did not (that I can remember). 

 

Could you explain what you mean by a copy being “certified”?

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

I think the problem is that everyone thinks they’re being reasonable — it’s other people who are being unreasonable! ?

But there are certain things that if we think through ahead of time we should be able to realize are more reasonable than what we may actually WANT at any given time.  For instance, no one WANTS to move out of the home or area that they lived in their entire life but if your kids are working and raising their own family hours or even days away,  you need to think about how hard it is on them when you have a medical crisis or whatever.  So yielding to the people who are still working and raising kids is more reasonable.  

And stuff.  Man, we all have too much stuff.  I am working on purging and working on getting my Dh to purge the shop.  It is just ridiculous.  

[Jen500]

What if one spouse is older and/or has health problems? How does the younger/healthier spouse deal with the finances if the other spouse needs a lot of expensive care? Is there any protection for retirement assets/home for the spouse?

[Faith-manor]

9 minutes ago, Jen500 said:

What if one spouse is older and/or has health problems? How does the younger/healthier spouse deal with the finances if the other spouse needs a lot of expensive care? Is there any protection for retirement assets/home for the spouse?

I think that depends on the state. So much of these things are not a matter of federal rules.

In Michigan, one cannot be directly held responsible for one's spouses medical bills IF the spouse refuses to sign any of the paperwork in which you consent to be responsible for the bill. We made sure my mom refused to sign any of that for my DNA donor. He was determined to accumulate hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills fighting for the 1% chance of getting a couple more years. What he got was a few months of abject pain and misery, and making everyone else so miserable and anxiety riddled that we all are on meds to deal with the fall out.  But, for every hospitalization, I went along or my sister did - she took a couple of leaves of absence from her doctoral studies in France to come home for two or three months at a time. When paperwork was handed to mom by a member of hospital staff, we grabbed all the financial stuff and said, "Nope. She's got no assets. Nothing to tap. If you treat him and he doesn't pay, that's your problem not hers." Since the house had been signed over to her after he was arrested the year before, they apparently couldn't go after the house. It isn't much of house, but at the time, the only roof over her head that she could count on.

After he died, when the first hospital bill came rolling through with the laundry list of things they had done to him or provided for him that either was subject to deductible, co-pay, or simply put Medicare was refusing to pay for, she just sent a copy of the death certificate and a note reminding them that she had NEVER signed to be financially responsible for his bills, and that was the end. Never heard another word. We did the same thing with the credit cards he ran up. We made sure her name was off his accounts while he was still competent to do it, so when those tens of thousands of balances came due, we sent them his death certificate - didn't have mom do a thing "Our dad passed away, here is the certificate, he left no estate and died a pauper as you will see since these credit card bills are all payments to the medical providers." They left everyone alone after about three attempts to collect.

 But, when it came to his legal woes, there was no such protection. She still ended up being legally responsible for his lawyer bill, and since his court fines came due before he died, there was absolutely no way to refrain from paying them. The court threatened to take her car, her TV and computer, etc. Apparently in this state they can seize anything they think is of value from the spouse to pay the legal fees.  It took all of his social security for three months to pay that which left them living on $779.00 a month which is what she drew from SS. Even with a house paid off, that isn't enough to pay for utilities, home owner's insurance, food, prescription and doctor's office co-pays, etc. So you can guess who had to empty all of their emergency savings for that.

Be careful in the state of PA. There is a filial support law on the books. Here is a link. Basically, you can be forced to pay for your parent's medical bills, particularly nursing home bill.

https://www.paelderlaw.net/pennsylvanias-filial-support-law-children-can-be-held-responsible-for-parents-unpaid-nursing-home-bill/

 

[HS Mom in NC]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

But there are certain things that if we think through ahead of time we should be able to realize are more reasonable than what we may actually WANT at any given time.  For instance, no one WANTS to move out of the home or area that they lived in their entire life but if your kids are working and raising their own family hours or even days away,  you need to think about how hard it is on them when you have a medical crisis or whatever.  So yielding to the people who are still working and raising kids is more reasonable.  

And stuff.  Man, we all have too much stuff.  I am working on purging and working on getting my Dh to purge the shop.  It is just ridiculous.  

So very true.  Unreasonable Baby Boomers are thinking about how their granny was taken care of in general, but not about the practical details (common in generations prone to idealism rather than pragmatism like many Baby Boomers are.)   They want to live with family members like Granny did, but they seem to have forgotten that Granny moved in to middle aged daughter's house. So you can't have it the way Granny had it AND age in place. Granny didn't age in place.  Odds are the middle aged daughter who took care of Granny didn't work full time outside the home or have minor aged children living in the home.  Neither did middle aged daughter take Granny to 3 doctor's appointments a week and provide nursing care with injections, bag changes, etc. It just wasn't as available then. And odds are Granny didn't weight 300 lbs. like my MIL. How do you daily rotate somone's bed positions in that situation to avoid bedsores and circulatory issues?  How do you steady her on the toilet? She's a diabetic who doesn't monitor her blood sugar or eat a diabetic friendly diet and has problems feeling her feet.  How long until she can't walk? How long until she falls and breaks a hip? Her only child lives on the other side of the country.

And Granny didn't have the volume of stuff most of us have today. My Baby Boomer in-laws and my mother think everything they have is worth something significant or that they will have a descendant who really wants that cuckoo clock Greatgreat ganduncle Whatshisname brought from wherever in spite of having been told explicitly by every relative that they don't want it.  (True story in my husband's family.) So they hang onto it because if their kids and grandkids don't want it, maybe a great grandkid will. And they can't get rid of their son's baby teeth because even if daughter-in-law doesn't want those gross blood nubs, son's grandchildren might want them someday. (True story.) And the workshop full of tools for a hobby no one else in the family has ever been interested in, including the elderly parent who has now lost interest.  And the 3 sets of dishes even though no one else interested in them. And the clothes that don't fit anyone anymore from the 1990s.  And the kitchen full of pots and pans and the RV pots and pans, but they did sell the RV. (Hallelujah!)  And the 15 giant bins of Christmas decorations at Mom's house and another set of a dozen at the in-laws house.  At the in-laws house there are also outdoor inflatable Christmas decorations, about a dozen, but we can't reduce any them now because some of the grandchildren are teens and may grow up to want those when they have their own households. (All true stories.) But maybe they're being reasonable and all the descendants aren't. Even though those Baby Boomers all have personal experience with caring for elderly relatives who had a major issue and suddenly needed full time care AND to have a house on the market. Some people just refuse to learn.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

HomeschoolMominAZ, that whole post made me break out in hives.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

But there are certain things that if we think through ahead of time we should be able to realize are more reasonable than what we may actually WANT at any given time.  For instance, no one WANTS to move out of the home or area that they lived in their entire life but if your kids are working and raising their own family hours or even days away,  you need to think about how hard it is on them when you have a medical crisis or whatever.  So yielding to the people who are still working and raising kids is more reasonable.  

And stuff.  Man, we all have too much stuff.  I am working on purging and working on getting my Dh to purge the shop.  It is just ridiculous.  

 

I guess you didn’t realize that I was mostly joking with you when I posted. 

But again, what you consider perfectly reasonable may not be what your son will consider to be perfectly reasonable. And maybe your son’s future wife won’t think it’s a great idea for you to live nearby, no matter how wise a choice you may consider it to be. 

And moving far from your longtime home to live near your son may truly be the best idea for you, because you assume you will always be close to your son and his future family and you will be happiest living near him. But what if the relationship was different? What about the moms whose adult children are busy with their own lives and only visit Mom once a month, or maybe even less often than that, even though Mom moved to live near them because they told her it would be more convenient for them? What is Mom supposed to do the other 350+ days of the year? It’s not always easy for people to start brand new lives and make brand new friends and get brand new doctors and join brand new groups at 80 years old, and is it really fair to ask them to do that? I’m not so sure it is. If they want to do it, that’s fine, but their happiness needs to be strongly considered as well, particularly if they are still relatively healthy and active, or even if they’re not so healthy but have a strong support system.

My MIL moved from her lifelong home to live near us, and she did great, but she made friends very easily and adapted to changes very well. But a few of her neighbors in the senior housing community had moved there to be close to their kids, and they were miserable. They missed their old homes and their old friends and their churches and their regular activities. They were SAD and they were LONELY. They were such nice ladies, but they had such a hard time dealing with all of the changes in their lives. They hadn’t wanted to leave their old neighborhoods, but their adult kids had insisted their moms move near them... and then those kids hardly ever bothered to visit. 

I don’t think there is a one-size-fits-all solution. Every family is different, and relationships between family members vary tremendously. If one family’s mom was always a narcissistic jerk who spent every nickel and never thought of anyone but herself, it makes sense that her adult children will feel differently about taking care of her in her golden years than another family whose mom was kind and loving and generous. But even in families with great relationships, there can be disagreements about what is and is not a reasonable life choice. And if major medical issues come into play, that adds another level of stress.

 

[Catwoman]

28 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

So very true.  Unreasonable Baby Boomers are thinking about how their granny was taken care of in general, but not about the practical details (common in generations prone to idealism rather than pragmatism like many Baby Boomers are.)   They want to live with family members like Granny did, but they seem to have forgotten that Granny moved in to middle aged daughter's house. So you can't have it the way Granny had it AND age in place. Granny didn't age in place.  Odds are the middle aged daughter who took care of Granny didn't work full time outside the home or have minor aged children living in the home.  Neither did middle aged daughter take Granny to 3 doctor's appointments a week and provide nursing care with injections, bag changes, etc. It just wasn't as available then. And odds are Granny didn't weight 300 lbs. like my MIL. How do you daily rotate somone's bed positions in that situation to avoid bedsores and circulatory issues?  How do you steady her on the toilet? She's a diabetic who doesn't monitor her blood sugar or eat a diabetic friendly diet and has problems feeling her feet.  How long until she can't walk? How long until she falls and breaks a hip? Her only child lives on the other side of the country.

And Granny didn't have the volume of stuff most of us have today. My Baby Boomer in-laws and my mother think everything they have is worth something significant or that they will have a descendant who really wants that cuckoo clock Greatgreat ganduncle Whatshisname brought from wherever in spite of having been told explicitly by every relative that they don't want it.  (True story in my husband's family.) So they hang onto it because if their kids and grandkids don't want it, maybe a great grandkid will. And they can't get rid of their son's baby teeth because even if daughter-in-law doesn't want those gross blood nubs, son's grandchildren might want them someday. (True story.) And the workshop full of tools for a hobby no one else in the family has ever been interested in, including the elderly parent who has now lost interest.  And the 3 sets of dishes even though no one else interested in them. And the clothes that don't fit anyone anymore from the 1990s.  And the kitchen full of pots and pans and the RV pots and pans, but they did sell the RV. (Hallelujah!)  And the 15 giant bins of Christmas decorations at Mom's house and another set of a dozen at the in-laws house.  At the in-laws house there are also outdoor inflatable Christmas decorations, about a dozen, but we can't reduce any them now because some of the grandchildren are teens and may grow up to want those when they have their own households. (All true stories.) But maybe they're being reasonable and all the descendants aren't. Even though those Baby Boomers all have personal experience with caring for elderly relatives who had a major issue and suddenly needed full time care AND to have a house on the market. Some people just refuse to learn.

 

You appear to be generalizing and judging all Baby Boomers very negatively based on your own personal experiences with your own parents and in-laws. 

You may not mean it that way, but your post seems incredibly bitter toward an entire generation of the population.

[Pawz4me]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

But there are certain things that if we think through ahead of time we should be able to realize are more reasonable than what we may actually WANT at any given time.  For instance, no one WANTS to move out of the home or area that they lived in their entire life but if your kids are working and raising their own family hours or even days away,  you need to think about how hard it is on them when you have a medical crisis or whatever.  So yielding to the people who are still working and raising kids is more reasonable.  

And stuff.  Man, we all have too much stuff.  I am working on purging and working on getting my Dh to purge the shop.  It is just ridiculous.  

It's been mentioned that part of the challenge of elder care nowadays is that children often move far away. Which is true. But it's also a fact of modern life that people sometimes move great distances several times during their working career. So what if mom and/or dad uproot themselves and move hundreds or thousands of miles to be near their offspring, and then the offspring loses his/her job, or their spouse loses a job, or they just want to change jobs for whatever reason? What if that new dream job requires relocating? Then you're in a situation where the offspring either gives up the notion of relocating, mom and/or dad also have to relocate again, or mom/dad are left in that area. Which then puts the situation right back where it was to begin with--the elderly parent(s) and the offspring a large distance apart.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I think that depends on the state. So much of these things are not a matter of federal rules.

In Michigan, one cannot be directly held responsible for one's spouses medical bills IF the spouse refuses to sign any of the paperwork in which you consent to be responsible for the bill. We made sure my mom refused to sign any of that for my DNA donor. He was determined to accumulate hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills fighting for the 1% chance of getting a couple more years. What he got was a few months of abject pain and misery, and making everyone else so miserable and anxiety riddled that we all are on meds to deal with the fall out.  But, for every hospitalization, I went along or my sister did - she took a couple of leaves of absence from her doctoral studies in France to come home for two or three months at a time. When paperwork was handed to mom by a member of hospital staff, we grabbed all the financial stuff and said, "Nope. She's got no assets. Nothing to tap. If you treat him and he doesn't pay, that's your problem not hers." Since the house had been signed over to her after he was arrested the year before, they apparently couldn't go after the house. It isn't much of house, but at the time, the only roof over her head that she could count on.

After he died, when the first hospital bill came rolling through with the laundry list of things they had done to him or provided for him that either was subject to deductible, co-pay, or simply put Medicare was refusing to pay for, she just sent a copy of the death certificate and a note reminding them that she had NEVER signed to be financially responsible for his bills, and that was the end. Never heard another word. We did the same thing with the credit cards he ran up. We made sure her name was off his accounts while he was still competent to do it, so when those tens of thousands of balances came due, we sent them his death certificate - didn't have mom do a thing "Our dad passed away, here is the certificate, he left no estate and died a pauper as you will see since these credit card bills are all payments to the medical providers." They left everyone alone after about three attempts to collect.

 But, when it came to his legal woes, there was no such protection. She still ended up being legally responsible for his lawyer bill, and since his court fines came due before he died, there was absolutely no way to refrain from paying them. The court threatened to take her car, her TV and computer, etc. Apparently in this state they can seize anything they think is of value from the spouse to pay the legal fees.  It took all of his social security for three months to pay that which left them living on $779.00 a month which is what she drew from SS. Even with a house paid off, that isn't enough to pay for utilities, home owner's insurance, food, prescription and doctor's office co-pays, etc. So you can guess who had to empty all of their emergency savings for that.

Be careful in the state of PA. There is a filial support law on the books. Here is a link. Basically, you can be forced to pay for your parent's medical bills, particularly nursing home bill.

https://www.paelderlaw.net/pennsylvanias-filial-support-law-children-can-be-held-responsible-for-parents-unpaid-nursing-home-bill/

 

 

I looked this up.  Around 30 states seem to have this. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

It's been mentioned that part of the challenge of elder care nowadays is that children often move far away. Which is true. But it's also a fact of modern life that people sometimes move great distances several times during their working career. So what if mom and/or dad uproot themselves and move hundreds or thousands of miles to be near their offspring, and then the offspring loses his/her job, or their spouse loses a job, or they just want to change jobs for whatever reason? What if that new dream job requires relocating? Then you're in a situation where the offspring either gives up the notion of relocating, mom and/or dad also have to relocate again, or mom/dad are left in that area. Which then puts the situation right back where it was to begin with--the elderly parent(s) and the offspring a large distance apart.

Well, this is true.  We are fairly committed to staying put because we convinced my parents to move.  As Cat mentioned there isn't a one size fits all.  I have known elderly parents who move several times with their children.  I would not be opposed to doing that but that is another reason I want to have not so much STUFF.

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

It's been mentioned that part of the challenge of elder care nowadays is that children often move far away. Which is true. But it's also a fact of modern life that people sometimes move great distances several times during their working career. So what if mom and/or dad uproot themselves and move hundreds or thousands of miles to be near their offspring, and then the offspring loses his/her job, or their spouse loses a job, or they just want to change jobs for whatever reason? What if that new dream job requires relocating? Then you're in a situation where the offspring either gives up the notion of relocating, mom and/or dad also have to relocate again, or mom/dad are left in that area. Which then puts the situation right back where it was to begin with--the elderly parent(s) and the offspring a large distance apart.

 

This could certainly be a problem. But might not be. 

Whereas if people are thousands of miles apart the distance won’t likely be bridged unless someone tries to move closer to the other 

We live in an area where quite a few people (not us) have extended family network and it does seem to make things easier.