Difficult to hold my tongue

[happi duck]

Scarlett, I can't find it but upthread you mentioned you don't buy junkfood so maybe that's why he's drinking so much milk.  I think this is probably true.

I'm fairly certain I self-medicate with sugar and my brain knows ways to get a hit without eating candy or drinking soda.  The more I have the more I want.  I think milk has enough sugar to provide a hit.

Iirc your dss was open to help.  If i were chugging milk i hope dh (who i have asked to help me) would look into it and let me know "you want to cut down on sugar so i want to remind you that milk is high in sugar".  I would be embarrassed and hurt if he said "you don't need that" or "do you really think you should be drinking that?"  I prefer someone remind me of my *own* goals.

[Bambam]

More than possibly not related, but regarding having a person in the household who is overweight and others in the household let them know in an not-helpful way that they are and they need to stop eating so much/bad food choices/whatever. My concern is how that spills over to the other family members too. Because everyone hears it, knows it, internalizes differently. 

I have a friend whose husband *hates* any overweight person. He speaks about it. Often. It is obvious that he has a problem with overweight people (no idea why, this is his issue). BUT.. as as direct result his wife is 1000% scared of gaining any weight. And as she moves more and more into middle age, she is starting to spread out despite massive efforts to exercise, eat right, exercise more, exercise more, etc. The children have picked up their dad's hatred (I don't think that is too strong a word for this case). Those children may well do whatever they have to never to be overweight.

And for this lady, she is actually slightly afraid that if she gains more weight, her husband will not love her/leave her. 

I am not saying that this is happening in Scarlett's family. I'm saying that if there is an issue with any one child in a family, you need to really think about how that impacts everyone in the family. Our reactions and how things like this affect us - it isn't always logical and rational. 

I sympathize with the fact he is overweight, but young adults don't always make the best decisions. Trying to help them help themselves is great. But they need to want it themselves. 

And from my experience with teen boys (I only have girls, but boys end up over here semi-often), I wouldn't be too surprised at a teen drinking a gallon of milk in a 24 hour period. I'm amazed at what teens can put away. Shocked even. 

[Tanaqui]

Quote

As well, apparently, according to my uncle who is a veterinarian some dogs (such as Labs) don’t have a gene that allows them to feel full. They might just keep eating what ever is there. We had this with one of our dogs. And maybe some people have it too.

 

This can happen with humans but my understanding is that it's generally part of a fairly serious disability. He'd already be diagnosed if this was the case.

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Tsuga said:

I know you have issues with your stepmom but your attitude towards stepfamilies is, frankly, disgusting and hate filled.

You were hurt, I get it.

But some people.were hurt by foster parents--are foster families not real families either? My mom is passive aggressive and has issues, is she not a real mom?

Your dismissal of non traditional families is just another iteration of your stepmom's hate. Please get help.

 

I don't dismiss non traditional families. I AM a non traditional family. We are foster adopt parents. I long ago forgave my stepmother. I forgave her long before she apologized a year after my dad's funeral. It doesn't mean I can't recognize clear boundary issues and child preferences that are apparent to everyone else who has been active in this thread.  This is why I've been one of the people encouraging therapy.

For the record, my stepmom didn't have kids and didn't want them.  There was no issue of comparing kids going on in my family of origin.  I am sensitive to comparing kids because I don't ever want my adopted kids to feel less than my bio children.

 

1 hour ago, Tsuga said:

Speaking of context--she has distinguished between them but no she has not said it in that way, "he's not my kid." She has acknowledged that she doesn't have full control over the situation and wasn't involved in all the choices that got him to this point. I do think that there is an important distinction there. I have way less influence over my stepkids but I will also fight for them.

And Katy has repeatedly in several threads reiterated that stepfamilies are not families. It's not just hurtful and cruel (though it is absolutely those things), it is unhelpful. 

I wonder what the desired outcome is. It is not changed behavior because only love can motivate that. Not fear or self-hatred.

Which is something a lot of people on this thread could do to recognize.

 

I NEVER said that stepfamilies are not families. I never even implied it.  I think the distinction between your perspective and mine is that my assumption is that when a child becomes part of a blended family beyond a certain age <or> when they still have two parents who are actively doing the work of parenting the child in question the step parent is not and cannot be a primary parental figure to that child.  Which isn't to say at all that they shouldn't be a strong secondary and loving figure in the life of the child. But the idea that their authority will equal or exceed the parents isn't realistic in most situations. Obviously this is different if one parent abandons the children or is in some other way unwilling or unable to parent. Obviously this is different if a parent literally gives up his or her rights to the child and a stepparent or foster parent adopts them. But that's not the case here.  This kid still has his mother involved.  Admittedly by Scarlett's reports DSS's mother has not made the best decisions, but she is his mother and she always will be by sole virtue of the age that he was when he moved in with Scarlett.

Exactly what age that boundary becomes obvious might differ by therapist or by individual child and where they are developmentally.  Many therapists might say 10-12. I think I watched an episode of Dr Phil once where he said 6. Regardless, in this case we're discussing a kid who was in high school before he moved in with two parents who are still involved.  Scarlett might disagree with many of their decisions or lack thereof (and from previous threads I think its safe to say many of us would disagree with some of those decisions), but this child has two involved parents. 

You're correct in asserting that Scarlett has improved in her comparisons of the boys. But the idea that she's never expressed a clear preference or concern for her son over her stepson seems either disingenuous or uninformed. Perhaps you haven't read all of the previous threads.  It's great that you will still fight for your kids.  Every kid can use many adults in their life that love them and will fight for them. But I'm not the only person in this thread (or any of the others) that sees this situation as a bit more fighting the child rather than fighting for the child.  There's a huge difference.  Perhaps I'm wrong.  Perhaps Scarlett hasn't been as good at expressing her love for this child here as she has her venting and frustration with him.  But that's not the sort of intention anyone can properly suss out on the internet, which is why so many people agree what they really need is a family therapist.  Not more sessions complaining about the child on the internet.

[Pen]

23 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

This can happen with humans but my understanding is that it's generally part of a fairly serious disability. He'd already be diagnosed if this was the case.

 

I don’t know. Would they really check for things like that?

And in addition to genetics things like HDAC5 enzymes may be implicated  ...

I think the studies where they take a slim mouse and an obese mouse give each a fecal transplant from the other —then after that which mouse is thin and which obese reverses are pretty interesting. 

Being able to drink a whole gallon in one day would also mean a physically pretty big stomach capacity I’d think.  I have trouble getting in my 6-8 cups of water each day. It’s a lot just in terms of volume. 

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Some say let it go and others say get him help no matter the cost. 

 

Yes, you need to let it go. Get him his own help. 

 

 

[Pawz4me]

I'm surprised that so many seem to think drinking a gallon of milk--or anything--indicates a problem simply due to the drinking (volume). I'm guessing most of you don't live in a hot, humid climate? I'm small and this time of the year I try my best to drink considerably more than a gallon a day. If I didn't I'd be in a constant state of dehydration. Heat+humidity+even just a bit of movement outside=LOTS of sweating.

[Pawz4me]

Just now, StellaM said:

 

It seems a lot because it's milk. Drinking water to the conditions is obviously a healthy thing to do. 

But others have said otherwise. See Pen's post just a few up from yours for just one example.

[EmseB]

39 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

I think the distinction between your perspective and mine is that my assumption is that when a child becomes part of a blended family beyond a certain age <or> when they still have two parents who are actively doing the work of parenting the child in question the step parent is not and cannot be a primary parental figure to that child.  Which isn't to say at all that they shouldn't be a strong secondary and loving figure in the life of the child. But the idea that their authority will equal or exceed the parents isn't realistic in most situations.

1

 

If the above is true, then...

 

39 minutes ago, Katy said:

You're correct in asserting that Scarlett has improved in her comparisons of the boys. But the idea that she's never expressed a clear preference or concern for her son over her stepson seems either disingenuous or uninformed. 

 

...wouldn't it have to be assumed that a clear preference or concern would be for one's own bio children? Scarlett is not a primary parental figure, but as you point out a secondary and loving figure to her SS. Which is what makes her relationship with him more complicated. Obviously, she is not a secondary figure in her bio son's life, so would have different concerns for him, perhaps even more concern because she's the one who is primarily supposed to have parental concern over him. The relationship can't possibly be the same between the two boys.

Which is why blended families have their own sorts of difficulties, especially with older kids moving in, and why Scarlett, instead of venting those things to her DH or her kids might possibly be trying to show impartiality at home (however impossible that may be in her situation) but is venting here.

[EmseB]

29 minutes ago, PinkyandtheBrains. said:

 

Yes, you need to let it go. Get him his own help. 

 

 

Can you give a good example of how someone would let an issue go while also getting someone their own help? I have no dog in this fight, but it might be helpful, because those two statements seem totally contradictory to me.

[Pen]

14 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Oh right, sorrry, haven't read all posts. I agree with you, as someone who lives in a hot, humid place - drinking a lot of water is neccessary!

 

If one really needed the fluid for hydration then it makes sense at least if spread out over some hours. 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Exactly. You CAN help him, by helping HIM, not his weight.  Focus all your energy on loving and supporting all the good things about him and lovingly ignoring all the rest.  Listen when he talks, offer supportive advice if he asks, show genuine interest in his life.  

 

Love on him intentionally and as completely as you can.  Actively turn away from any comparisons, criticisms, or even worries.  He doesn’t need that from you.  Make this last year or two of him in your daily life one that really ties his heart to yours and that carries him with strength into whatever endeavor he pursues.

 

Doing that for him is the most beautiful, supportive gift you can share with him.  And you’ll be so much happier too, focusing on all the good.  

Naturally none of you can see every interaction I have with my kids. Dss and I get along very well.  He tells me all,kinds of stuff, he asks for my help when he needs it, I aske him to do things to help me. he obviously likes me enough that he came to live here knowing I would be the one home with him while his dad worked ( since then I do work a lot more but not when he came at first). I was primarily responsible for his schooling, his guitar lessons and getting him medical attention and dental which his mom had neglected.  

But I do understand y'all can't really 'see' that when I vent about weight and eating issues.  

[Scarlett]

52 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

That’s good. My mom’s friend has a son who was of your religion for a couple years, joined because of his girlfriend. He left( because of other reasons, too) after seeing their community disallow or disfellow, whatever the correct term is, an obese couple because of gluttony. When I did a bit of googling, it seems that some groups of JW do this, although the one I know of was 20 years ago.

Yeah, I have no way to even reply to this.  Been a JW my entire life and never known a single person disciplined for gluttony although I guess technically it is possible.   I do however hear of many people claiming they were df'd for one thing when it was actually another.  

[Kassia]

54 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

Being able to drink a whole gallon in one day would also mean a physically pretty big stomach capacity I’d think.  I have trouble getting in my 6-8 cups of water each day. It’s a lot just in terms of volume. 

 

 

I drink much more than a gallon a day (not milk, but other liquids).  And I am one of those people who never feel full.  It's baffling and I've been that way since I was a newborn.  

 

[wendyroo]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Being able to drink a whole gallon in one day would also mean a physically pretty big stomach capacity I’d think.  I have trouble getting in my 6-8 cups of water each day. It’s a lot just in terms of volume. 

 

I drink about a gallon a day (mostly water, but also about 20 ounces of whole Fairlife milk) and I have had weight loss surgery that “sleeved” my stomach into a very small tube with a capacity of only about 1/4 of “normal”.  I obviously can’t guzzle large volumes at once, but if I make a point of drinking frequently throughout the day, then I can easily hit 120-130 ounces in 24 hours.

So, no, drinking a gallon a day does not necessarily require a large stomach capacity. 

Wendy

[Tanaqui]

Quote

I don’t know. Would they really check for things like that? 

 

My understanding is that the conditions known to affect satiety cues are so encompassing that they affect everything, including intelligence, speech, motor processing, etc. They're not something you can have and not know about it.

But it's probable I don't know enough!

[SereneHome]

I very much consider myself a newbie around here, but I read enough of OP's posts about her step son to say this - Scarlett, you are very very brave to be posting anything about your step son and food and his weight. 

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

I very much consider myself a newbie around here, but I read enough of OP's posts about her step son to say this - Scarlett, you are very very brave to be posting anything about your step son and food and his weight. 

I know right.   ?

[BarbecueMom]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

Being able to drink a whole gallon in one day would also mean a physically pretty big stomach capacity I’d think.  I have trouble getting in my 6-8 cups of water each day. It’s a lot just in terms of volume. 

 

I’m the same way, and often wonder if the push to drink more, more, more water has backfired by training the stomach to constantly be at capacity, whether it’s full of water or kale or cheesecake.

I will admit I have trouble watching large-serving eating since my GI issues and non-existent appetite stuff started, and am worried about having three teen boys to feed in the near future. I start getting dizzy and nauseous thinking about that darn annual 4th of July hot dog contest.  I’ve actually had to skim pretty fast past the posts about weekly multiple gallon milk consumption.

[catz]

29 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

But I do understand y'all can't really 'see' that when I vent about weight and eating issues.  

You have been posting on this topic on a regular basis for a long while now. Your tone and judgment level is better than your early posts on this subject.  And I do think those who have been following along over many years can remember the tone and that's why these threads do get touchy.  

My question to you is why is this still a hot button topic for you?  Can you challenge yourself to be able to let things go?  Acknowledge these boys are growing up?   Your 190 lb "skinny" kid is not going to waste away.  I don't remind my < 120 lb 17 year old son to eat and he manages not to waste away.  Your step kid that struggles has 2 parents and just needs quiet support and not judgment.  It is truly NOT about will power.   You are going to be a happier person if you can just let this go.  Are you an anxious person in general?  Does your DH has a difficult relationship with the step son that is feeding into this?  You don't need to own this or do anything about it.  He's seen a doctor.  He's on the cusp of adulthood.  If it's causing you enough stress to STILL be posting after all this time on this topic, it's taking up too much of your time and energy.   I think whoever suggested above that maybe you should see a counselor if your step son is unwilling may be onto something.   You can only control yourself.   
 

47 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Can you give a good example of how someone would let an issue go while also getting someone their own help? I have no dog in this fight, but it might be helpful, because those two statements seem totally contradictory to me.

I can see some sense to this.  Humans are not perfect.  Would you want someone micromanaging and correcting you every time you took an extra cookie or went through a Taco Bell drive through?  

That said, you can keep healthy items in the house and make it easier to make good choices.  You can limit how much you will buy.  You can suggest family walk or bike rides.  You can be a sounding board when he's ready to talk or needs more resources.  You can model good choices both in terms of food and in terms of emotional health.  You can accept there won't be perfect will power  at times.  Especially when tempting foods are easy access.  

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, happi duck said:

Scarlett, I can't find it but upthread you mentioned you don't buy junkfood so maybe that's why he's drinking so much milk.  I think this is probably true.

I'm fairly certain I self-medicate with sugar and my brain knows ways to get a hit without eating candy or drinking soda.  The more I have the more I want.  I think milk has enough sugar to provide a hit.

Iirc your dss was open to help.  If i were chugging milk i hope dh (who i have asked to help me) would look into it and let me know "you want to cut down on sugar so i want to remind you that milk is high in sugar".  I would be embarrassed and hurt if he said "you don't need that" or "do you really think you should be drinking that?"  I prefer someone remind me of my *own* goals.

Well, yes.  Dh talked to him today......tried to brainstorm foods to buy dss that will,satisfy the hunger he has.  I think the fact he has mostly cut out bread and sweets has him craving the milk.  The other thing that happened is that Ds took 2 steaks out of the freezer yesterday and cook one  for himself yesterday for lunch and today for lunch.  That just can't happen.  We can barely afford meat as it is so one person getting steak for lunch two days in a row is just nuts.   I think he must be/feel starving. We gotta find some food to help him feel full. 

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

You have been posting on this topic on a regular basis for a long while now. Your tone and judgment level is better than your early posts on this subject.  And I do think those who have been following along over many years can remember the tone and that's why these threads do get touchy.  

My question to you is why is this still a hot button topic for you?  Can you challenge yourself to be able to let things go?  Acknowledge these boys are growing up?   Your 190 lb "skinny" kid is not going to waste away.  I don't remind my < 120 lb 17 year old son to eat and he manages not to waste away.  Your step kid that struggles has 2 parents and just needs quiet support and not judgment.  It is truly NOT about will power.   You are going to be a happier person if you can just let this go.  Are you an anxious person in general?  Does your DH has a difficult relationship with the step son that is feeding into this?  You don't need to own this or do anything about it.  He's seen a doctor.  He's on the cusp of adulthood.  If it's causing you enough stress to STILL be posting after all this time on this topic, it's taking up too much of your time and energy.   I think whoever suggested above that maybe you should see a counselor if your step son is unwilling may be onto something.   You can only control yourself.   
 

I can see some sense to this.  Humans are not perfect.  Would you want someone micromanaging and correcting you every time you took an extra cookie or went through a Taco Bell drive through?  

That said, you can keep healthy items in the house and make it easier to make good choices.  You can limit how much you will buy.  You can suggest family walk or bike rides.  You can be a sounding board when he's ready to talk or needs more resources.  You can model good choices both in terms of food and in terms of emotional health.  You can accept there won't be perfect will power  at times.  Especially when tempting foods are easy access.  

See, the comment about me reminding my son to eat is an example of how people latch on to one thing......so to be clear this is not some regular thing that happens with Ds. He eats fine his weight is fine, but sometimes depending on the circumstances he truly might forget to eat.  I certainly don't follow,him around reminding him to eat....but if he is cranky amd out of sorts I know instantly he has forgotten to eat.  I wouldn't remind him to eat bcause he is too thin......which he isn't anyway.....I would remind him so he can stop being cranky to the rest of the world.  

 

Dh dh does not have a difficult relationship with his son. No one has a difficult relationship with anyone in this house.  We all get along fine and have school and jobs and other committments. 

 

[catz]

13 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

See, the comment about me reminding my son to eat is an example of how people latch on to one thing......so to be clear this is not some regular thing that happens with Ds. He eats fine his weight is fine, but sometimes depending on the circumstances he truly might forget to eat.  I certainly don't follow,him around reminding him to eat....but if he is cranky amd out of sorts I know instantly he has forgotten to eat.  I wouldn't remind him to eat bcause he is too thin......which he isn't anyway.....I would remind him so he can stop being cranky to the rest of the world.  

 

Dh dh does not have a difficult relationship with his son. No one has a difficult relationship with anyone in this house.  We all get along fine and have school and jobs and other committments. 

 

But every time you start one of these threads you mention your son and talk about his weight.  They are 2 completely different people not even genetically related entering adulthood.   Honestly, having your almost adult DSS's problems and imperfections spelled out on a public board repeatedly in such great detail is probably crossing a line.  I feel like I know way more about this situation than I should as a spectator.   If you were beyond this now, it would not be worthy of continued posts venting on just this particular topic.

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

But every time you start one of these threads you mention your son and talk about his weight.  They are 2 completely different people not even genetically related entering adulthood.   Honestly, having your almost adult DSS's problems and imperfections spelled out on a public board repeatedly in such great detail is probably crossing a line.  I feel like I know way more about this situation than I should as a spectator.   If you were beyond this now, it would not be worthy of continued posts venting on just this particular topic.

And on cue. 

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

But current US culture strives to thwart any possibility that someone might experience hunger. We treat it like

I recently read not all of, but some of the book The Obesity Code and, while I readily admit there are things in that book I don’t like and I disagree with, the part I appreciate is that he recognizes that feeling hungry does not mean one must eat. 

 

 

I think that there may also be confusion between hunger of a sort when there is food insufficiency and hunger when appetite is stimulated by smelling, seeing, hearing or thinking about food even when having had plenty.  The same word can refer to a too thin street kid trying to find enough food to survive out of dumpsters or to a person with plenty who has the munchies for whatever reason.

 

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

But every time you start one of these threads you mention your son and talk about his weight.  They are 2 completely different people not even genetically related entering adulthood.   Honestly, having your almost adult DSS's problems and imperfections spelled out on a public board repeatedly in such great detail is probably crossing a line.  I feel like I know way more about this situation than I should as a spectator.   If you were beyond this now, it would not be worthy of continued posts venting on just this particular topic.

Also do you not see the other topics I post on? I post a lot.  Not just this one topic. Lol

[Stibalfamily]

Could you make soup, or brown rice and beans to fill him up? You could make frozen bean, vegetable and brown rice burritos too, or buy them. I know its hot but soup can fill you up while not being very many calories. Soup can also make meat stretch really far. I would make sure to add lots of plant based protein which is much healthier and less expensive. Can you be proactive in having healthy, ready-to-go food and snacks so he can have that instead? You could maybe make a large amount once or twice a week. If he gets hungry between meals then he will always have a healthy choice. I was never allowed just to eat food that wasn't specifically for me. We knew what we could and could not eat. We did not just go in the freezer and defrost food. We also wouldn't have been able to drink a gallon of milk ourselves, out of curtesy for everyone else. Maybe you, your husband and step-son need to sit down and simply come up with a meal plan, recipes or a solution so you don't run into bad feelings. Ask him if he would like you to prepare food ahead of time that he can have so you don't run into problems where you are running out of things or using things needed for family meals. He could also go online and find healthy recipes that he would like to make for himself during the week, you could look at them together and he can prepare them himself. Give him a food budget and go from there. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Scarlett, I am repeating elegantlion's sentiment upthread. I don't dislike you, I do read your other threads (and comment like for anyone else), I don't think you hate your family. Hopefully with that disclaimer out of the way, I can ask a question:

What do you get out of this? As a venting option, this venue really stinks because you get a whopping three people agreeing and sympathizing, and two hundred disagreeing or advising or scolding or analyzing or whatever. 

So it's not just a place to vent. You are not stupid, you can tell that this is a hostile environment for this particular type of venting.

Are you bored? Do you enjoy the part we are getting to now, which is typical for your threads, when you start arguing with people about what a great relationship all your family members have, and how you post lots of topics, and nobody reads your other topics, and nobody likes you...?

I mean, do you just do this for attention? For a ton of people to talk with and argue with for a couple of days?

I'm sorry but it might help us all finally ignore these threads if you'll tell us that you only start them to amuse yourself and yank our chains. ?

[catz]

3 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

I'm sorry but it might help us all finally ignore these threads if you'll tell us that you only start them to amuse yourself and yank our chains. ?

 

Maybe she uses these boards like her DSS uses food?  Comfort?  Stress relief?  ?‍♀️  I give up. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Stibalfamily said:

Could you make soup, or brown rice and beans to fill him up? You could make frozen bean, vegetable and brown rice burritos too, or buy them. I know its hot but soup can fill you up while not being very many calories. Soup can also make meat stretch really far. I would make sure to add lots of plant based protein which is much healthier and less expensive. Can you be proactive in having healthy, ready-to-go food and snacks so he can have that instead? You could maybe make a large amount once or twice a week. If he gets hungry between meals then he will always have a healthy choice. I was never allowed just to eat food that wasn't specifically for me. We knew what we could and could not eat. We did not just go in the freezer and defrost food. We also wouldn't have been able to drink a gallon of milk ourselves, out of cutesy for everyone else. Maybe you, your husband and step-son need to sit down and simply come up with a meal plan, recipes or a solution so you don't run into bad feelings. Ask him if he would like you to prepare food ahead of time that he can have so you don't run into problems where you are running out of things or using things needed for family meals. He could also go online and find healthy recipes that he would like to make for himself during the week, you could look at them together and he can prepare them himself. Give him a food budget and go from there. 

That is what Dh tried to discuss with him today.....he wasn't very cooperative. I do buy stuff that is for lunches.   Tuna fish, lunch meat, cheese, leftovers, salad......

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

Scarlett, I am repeating elegantlion's sentiment upthread. I don't dislike you, I do read your other threads (and comment like for anyone else), I don't think you hate your family. Hopefully with that disclaimer out of the way, I can ask a question:

What do you get out of this? As a venting option, this venue really stinks because you get a whopping three people agreeing and sympathizing, and two hundred disagreeing or advising or scolding or analyzing or whatever. 

So it's not just a place to vent. You are not stupid, you can tell that this is a hostile environment for this particular type of venting.

Are you bored? Do you enjoy the part we are getting to now, which is typical for your threads, when you start arguing with people about what a great relationship all your family members have, and how you post lots of topics, and nobody reads your other topics, and nobody likes you...?

I mean, do you just do this for attention? For a ton of people to talk with and argue with for a couple of days?

I'm sorry but it might help us all finally ignore these threads if you'll tell us that you only start them to amuse yourself and yank our chains. ?

Certainly not yanking anyone's chain.  

It is just a vent......and hey I think more than two people are nice to me.  

[Mergath]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

That is what Dh tried to discuss with him today.....he wasn't very cooperative. I do buy stuff that is for lunches.   Tuna fish, lunch meat, cheese, leftovers, salad......

 

That's the problem right there. Why in the world do you have to have a big discussion with him about it? I probably wouldn't be cooperative either in that kind of situation. Just acquire the stuff, stick it in the fridge/freezer, the end. If you don't think he'll find it, say, "Hey, SS, there's some <whatever> in the freezer if you get hungry." That's all you have to do. You don't have to make a big production out of asking him to please eat veg burritos for the sake of his health because he's obese and on and on and on.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, Mergath said:

 

That's the problem right there. Why in the world do you have to have a big discussion with him about it? I probably wouldn't be cooperative either in that kind of situation. Just acquire the stuff, stick it in the fridge/freezer, the end. If you don't think he'll find it, say, "Hey, SS, there's some <whatever> in the freezer if you get hungry." That's all you have to do. You don't have to make a big production out of asking him to please eat veg burritos for the sake of his health because he's obese and on and on and on.

A big discussion? Did I say big?  dh asked him what he would like us to buy him to eat. Oh the horrors. 

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Well, yes.  Dh talked to him today......tried to brainstorm foods to buy dss that will,satisfy the hunger he has.  I think the fact he has mostly cut out bread and sweets has him craving the milk.  The other thing that happened is that Ds took 2 steaks out of the freezer yesterday and cook one  for himself yesterday for lunch and today for lunch.  That just can't happen.  We can barely afford meat as it is so one person getting steak for lunch two days in a row is just nuts.   I think he must be/feel starving. We gotta find some food to help him feel full. 

Would it help to have a certain part of the refrigerator, freezer, and pantry as "these are fine to fix for yourself" and another that is "these are reserved for planned meal preparation"?  I wonder if he went looking for the steaks or if they were just the first thing he saw and grabbed them. Were there other obvious lunch choices that he could easily see and easily prepare?  

Or, would it be possible, as a family, to come up with a weekly menu which lays out specific meals and snacks for each day?  It sounds as if the boys are old enough and independent enough to be fixing some food on their own, so would it be possible to include them in this rather than imposing a meal plan on them.  It might be done in a way that is more about planning as a family to make sure that shopping is done efficiently and so that anyone who is home first can get started on a meal rather than about the food needs of any one particular person in the family.  

 

[Scarlett]

28 minutes ago, jdahlquist said:

Would it help to have a certain part of the refrigerator, freezer, and pantry as "these are fine to fix for yourself" and another that is "these are reserved for planned meal preparation"?  I wonder if he went looking for the steaks or if they were just the first thing he saw and grabbed them. Were there other obvious lunch choices that he could easily see and easily prepare?  

Or, would it be possible, as a family, to come up with a weekly menu which lays out specific meals and snacks for each day?  It sounds as if the boys are old enough and independent enough to be fixing some food on their own, so would it be possible to include them in this rather than imposing a meal plan on them.  It might be done in a way that is more about planning as a family to make sure that shopping is done efficiently and so that anyone who is home first can get started on a meal rather than about the food needs of any one particular person in the family.  

 

Obviously we have to now tell him, meat in the freezer  ( which is not in the house btw) is off limits.  I do make menus.  I have no idea why he thought it would be OK to go get steaks from the freezer for his lunch.  I mean sure steak sounds better than tuna fish or eggs or salad......but we just can't afford that.  

[Lady Florida.]

2 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

My understanding is that the conditions known to affect satiety cues are so encompassing that they affect everything, including intelligence, speech, motor processing, etc. They're not something you can have and not know about it.

But it's probable I don't know enough!

The only syndrome I'm familiar with is Prader Willi Syndrome. In that case yes, other things are affected including intellectual development and muscle tone. I had a student with Prader Willi and although she was obese she was always hungry and never felt saiety. It's a syndrome that isn't hard to miss though because the person is always hungry and will do nearly anything to get food. My student's parents had locks on all the pantry doors and had food hidden in parts of the house. She always seemed to find the hiding places and managed to either get the key or figure out how to break the locks. It's a nightmare syndrome. My other students were told not to bring snacks to school (this was high school) and if they did they had to keep a close watch on them. She learned how to be extremely sneaky about food. It wasn't uncommon to find food wrappers and chips bag near where she sat after class got over even though I often didn't see her actually eating.

 There might be other conditions that affect satiety but if Scarlett's ss had Prader Willi they'd know it. 

[Pen]

Marijuana, some antidepressants, some anti inflammatories, enzyme activity, and gut bacteria all can potentially affect “hunger” symptoms.  According to books I have read and BBC programs I’ve heard. Some of this would be secondary to other illnesses. A friend of mine ballooned with cancer even though weight loss is more common. Hormones can certainly have an effect on metabolism and perhaps on sense of hunger also. 

[DawnM]

I have been reading lately about Overeaters Antonymous.    We have equated his eating with alcoholism in the past.  And I do feel he is eating his feelings.  He has a lot to be upset about.  I am not sure if suggesting a meeting would be helpful, but there are meetings all over the country.  

Honestly, I just feel so bad for him. 

[unsinkable]

9 minutes ago, DawnM said:

I have been reading lately about Overeaters Antonymous.    We have equated his eating with alcoholism in the past.  And I do feel he is eating his feelings.  He has a lot to be upset about.  I am not sure if suggesting a meeting would be helpful, but there are meetings all over the country.  

Honestly, I just feel so bad for him. 

I linked to the family and friends page for OA a few pages back, for Scarlett. 

at this point, her son might not be ready for OA ( I'm not in any position to know that) but it can help Scarlett with her understanding of what he is dealing with. The page also suggests fam & Friends going to another family program (like AlAnon) since OA doesn't have on specifically.

But anyone can go to "Open Meetings." You don't have to be an addict.

[DawnM]

Just now, unsinkable said:

I linked to the family and friends page for OA a few pages back, for Scarlett. 

at this point, her son might not be ready for OA ( I'm not in any position to know that) but it can help Scarlett with her understanding of what he is dealing with. The page also suggests fam & Friends going to another family program (like AlAnon) since OA doesn't have on specifically.

But anyone can go to "Open Meetings." You don't have to be an addict.

 

Ah, I missed that.  I haven't read all of this thread.  It is LONG.  

[Scarlett]

45 minutes ago, DawnM said:

I have been reading lately about Overeaters Antonymous.    We have equated his eating with alcoholism in the past.  And I do feel he is eating his feelings.  He has a lot to be upset about.  I am not sure if suggesting a meeting would be helpful, but there are meetings all over the country.  

Honestly, I just feel so bad for him. 

 

Not directed specifically to you. 

One thing about reading all of these various opinions is it brings some things into focus. One of those is that dss is not upset about anything. Obviously some of you don’t believe that but he seems happy to me.  He is involved with his friends, his faith, his job. He is looking forward to his senior year of culinary arts. He has a car—-he meets his mom for lunch every couple of weeks so no more drop off pick up issues. 

I know some of you have an image of him trapped in an unhealthy home with a wicked controlling step mom who favors her bio child in all things. That isn’t true in the slightest. Y’all aren’t here in our house or in his actual life and a lot of what you ‘think’ is our reality is probably your own projections and insecurity. 

 

[DawnM]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 

Not directed specifically to you. 

One thing about reading all of these various opinions is it brings some things into focus. One of those is that dss is not upset about anything. Obviously some of you don’t believe that but he seems happy to me.  He is involved with his friends, his faith, his job. He is looking forward to his senior year of culinary arts. He has a car—-he meets his mom for lunch every couple of weeks so no more drop off pick up issues. 

I know some of you have an image of him trapped in an unhealthy home with a wicked controlling step mom who favors her bio child in all things. That isn’t true in the slightest. Y’all aren’t here in our house or in his actual life and a lot of what you ‘think’ is our reality is probably your own projections and insecurity. 

 

 

I seem to remember you mentioning that he had issues with his bio mom.  Seeming happy doesn't mean he doesn't have some issues attached to all of that.

And WOW, our own projections?  We are going by all the many, many threads YOU have started about this SS and his eating ISSUES.  Yes, ISSUES.  If they weren't ISSUES you wouldn't be talking about it ALL.THE.TIME.

[Pawz4me]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 

Not directed specifically to you. 

One thing about reading all of these various opinions is it brings some things into focus. One of those is that dss is not upset about anything. Obviously some of you don’t believe that but he seems happy to me.  He is involved with his friends, his faith, his job. He is looking forward to his senior year of culinary arts. He has a car—-he meets his mom for lunch every couple of weeks so no more drop off pick up issues. 

I know some of you have an image of him trapped in an unhealthy home with a wicked controlling step mom who favors her bio child in all things. That isn’t true in the slightest. Y’all aren’t here in our house or in his actual life and a lot of what you ‘think’ is our reality is probably your own projections and insecurity. 

 

Gently -- You can't know this for someone else. You just can't. No matter how well you think you know them.

[Tanaqui]

Quote

One of those is that dss is not upset about anything. Obviously some of you don’t believe that but he seems happy to me.  He is involved with his friends, his faith, his job. He is looking forward to his senior year of culinary arts. He has a car—-he meets his mom for lunch every couple of weeks so no more drop off pick up issues. 

 

Quote

I hate to see him on HBP meds since age 16.  I hate to see him suffer socially.  I hate to see him struggle with his clothes.  It I don't hate him. I want what is best for him.   So if I am just suppose to accept this situation......well I guess I will, but I struggle with it.  

 

The bolded is why people think he's not happy. You're the one who said those words. I don't know what the truth is, but I do know that your confusion on this matter is something that we can't address here.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

I seem to remember you mentioning that he had issues with his bio mom.  Seeming happy doesn't mean he doesn't have some issues attached to all of that.

And WOW, our own projections?  We are going by all the many, many threads YOU have started about this SS and his eating ISSUES.  Yes, ISSUES.  If they weren't ISSUES you wouldn't be talking about it ALL.THE.TIME.

Lol yes I post a lot 

yes we all have issues  to deal with. Yes I hyperfocus in an incident and it gets discussed here for long after it is over in our house. That doesn’t translate to dss being ‘upset’ and certainly not about a lot of things. 

[DawnM]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Lol yes I post a lot 

yes we all have issues  to deal with. Yes I hyperfocus in an incident and it gets discussed here for long after it is over in our house. That doesn’t translate to dss being ‘upset’ and certainly not about a lot of things. 

 

then why ask us?  You obviously have it all figured out and just accuse us of projecting when we try to offer help.  

[hippiemamato3]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Lol yes I post a lot 

yes we all have issues  to deal with. Yes I hyperfocus in an incident and it gets discussed here for long after it is over in our house. That doesn’t translate to dss being ‘upset’ and certainly not about a lot of things. 

The post quoted above indicates that, yes, your stepson is deeply miserable. But it doesn't suit you now, so you're trying to say he's perfectly happy. 

[BeachGal]

Motivational interviewing can help people who need to make changes in their lives. It is a way of discussing issues such as addictions and involves allowing them to be ambivalent -- a part of the process of changing behavior -- while maintaining their autonomy as they decide what is needed to change. The listener's job is to listen and evoke when the individual seeking change is ready.

ETA

Some food to include would be eggs -- as many as 6 per day -- some cheese, veggies. Avocados which are about 6 for $6 at our Costco. A variety of nuts, especially walnuts but not so much peanuts which are a legume. Good fat will help him to feel satiated. Fiber from veggies will help grow a healthier microbiome in his gut and soak up unhealthy stuff in the gut.

The earlier meals take place in the day, the better. Eating in the evening and especially at night leads to weight gain. This has to do with circadian rhythms.

[Catwoman]

24 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Not directed specifically to you. 

One thing about reading all of these various opinions is it brings some things into focus. One of those is that dss is not upset about anything. Obviously some of you don’t believe that but he seems happy to me.  He is involved with his friends, his faith, his job. He is looking forward to his senior year of culinary arts. He has a car—-he meets his mom for lunch every couple of weeks so no more drop off pick up issues. 

I know some of you have an image of him trapped in an unhealthy home with a wicked controlling step mom who favors her bio child in all things. That isn’t true in the slightest. Y’all aren’t here in our house or in his actual life and a lot of what you ‘think’ is our reality is probably your own projections and insecurity. 

 

 

But Scarlett, how can the poor guy be 100 pounds overweight and not be upset about it in the least? He sounds like a bright young man, so I’m sure the high blood pressure scares him, as well.

Let’s face it, people can hide their emotions. Look at how you say you’re able to hide your feelings from your stepson about his weight, yet you are obviously very worried and upset about it. Just because your stepson acts happy-go-lucky, it doesn’t mean he’s not secretly worried about things. And maybe he doesn’t mention his weight very often because he’s scared he won’t be able to do the things he needs to do to slim down. It can’t be easy for him to have a slim and attractive stepbrother who can eat anything he wants and never gain an ounce. You compare the two boys, even if you don’t tell them about it — do you really believe your stepson isn’t doing the same thIng without admitting it to you?

I think you should seriously consider the suggestions about looking into Overeaters Anonymous.

[Amber in SJ]

Ok.  Please hear this in the gentlest tone possible.  I have not read the entire thread because I only got to the 4th page before I couldn't read anymore.  

First of all (((hugs))) to you, Scarlett.  It is so difficult to watch someone close to you struggle with addiction and feel helpless in the face of it.  Clearly, that is what you are dealing with here.  If he has been checked by the doctor and there don't seem to be any underlying physical causes to his being 100 lbs overweight at 17 then you are looking at addiction.  It isn't a character flaw, it isn't a deficiency, it is a disease.  

Food addiction is a tricky thing because unlike drug addiction, alcohol addiction or porn addiction you can't go cold turkey.  You have to keep the addictive substance in your life.

A person's relationship to food is highly individual.  Your naturally thin son, who sometimes forgets to eat, has a casual relationship with food.  Food, to him is fuel, and sometimes he forgets to refuel.  Your step-son, clearly has a different relationship to food.  You say he has not been in a stable home for most of his childhood?  Unfortunately, it sounds like he has been in a home that was chaotic and he didn't feel safe & loved.  Every person wants to feel safe and loved.  Guess where he turned for comfort?  Where he turned to feel love?  You got it.  Food.  It may sound like I am exaggerating to someone who doesn't have this relationship to food, but there have been studies that show eating can release the same "happy hormones" in our brains as hugs from parents or even sex.  Your step-son wasn't getting the unconditional love he needed from any of his parental figures, but he was getting it from food.  It was always there.  It didn't care what else was going on.  It consistently made him feel good.  If he felt a little bad later about eating so much?  Oh well.  You are asking him to give up or change what has always given him comfort and security.  This is the kind of thing that counseling is for.  Getting to the root of addiction and finding healthier ways to meet the emotional needs of the child (who is almost no longer a child.)

You say you were in a marriage previously that was mostly bad for years.  Why didn't you leave sooner?  Because the issue was complicated, right?  You had to decide for yourself when it was time to break away from those unhealthy/ dangerous habits and go forward.  It is the same for your step-son.  No one else could make you change.  No one on the outside, no matter how concerned they were for you, could force you to end the relationship.  No one else has the right to judge you for your choices in that relationship.  It is the same for your step-son.  

So here are my recommendations.  They are free so you can take them for what it is worth.

1.  His weight is not your business.  You can't bully, shame, cajole, mother, smother or educate someone out of an addiction.  All you can do is love him.  Not a single comment to him or to Dh for that matter, if Dh is going to pass on your concerns to Dss about his weight or his eating habits.  It is so hard.  You will feel like your tongue has holes in it from biting it.  

2.  Give him a soft place to land.  He needs to replace years of conditioning that food is his only comfort & security.  There will be good days and bad days in the process.  Your job is not to fix him, or change him; your job is to love him.

3.  Go to counseling.  Please.  Find some place that will work with him individually and with all of you as a family.  You need a shared language about this issue.  You need some direction in neutrality. I know you think that he doesn't know that you are so irritated by the issue of overeating, but believe me, he does.  Counseling will help you, as a family, know how to support Dss in breaking the food addiction.  

4.  Continue to do the great job you have started in getting him medical help.  This is going to be a lifetime journey of retraining deeply entrenched neural pathways and finding what works best for him physically & emotionally.  Continue to help him find health professionals who really listen to him and support him.  Be behind him 100% if you come across a medical health professional who is dismissive or unwilling to treat the issue as a whole rather than eat less/ exercise more.  

For the milk issue:  I would buy a gallon/ kid each week.  One for each of them.  That gives your son the 2 big glasses/ day you want him to have, and your dss can choose to drink his all in one day and buy more or make it last.  For cooking?   What I do if I think the kids are going to go through the milk before I get to cooking with it is measure out whatever I need & put it in a mason jar or other container that says "Don't touch!"

I hope things get better,

Amber in SJ