Article: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?

[umsami]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/has-the-smartphone-destroyed-a-generation/534198/?utm_source=atlfb

 

 

Really interesting article.  Visited a potential boarding school for one of the kids and they are only allowed access to their phones during a 2-3 hour window, after homework has been checked.  Have been thinking of disabling the internet in our house, except for those two hours, too.  But, then again, I want my kids to learn to self-regulate....

 

 

"The number of teens who get together with their friends nearly every day dropped by more than 40 percent from 2000 to 2015; the decline has been especially steep recently. It’s not only a matter of fewer kids partying; fewer kids are spending time simply hanging out. That’s something most teens used to do: nerds and jocks, poor kids and rich kids, C students and A students. The roller rink, the basketball court, the town pool, the local necking spot—they’ve all been replaced by virtual spaces accessed through apps and the web.

 

You might expect that teens spend so much time in these new spaces because it makes them happy, but most data suggest that it does not...."

[Insertcreativenamehere]

I read this article, too. Very sobering indeed!

[Arcadia]

Pasi Sahlberg partially blames smartphones and screen time for Finland's drop in PISA rankings

 

"Finland used to have the best primary school readers in the world until the early 2000s, but not anymore. PISA test items rely heavily on test-taker’s reading comprehension. Appearance of handheld technologies such as smartphones among school-aged children in this decade has probably accelerated this trend.

 

Second, rapidly increased “screen time†with media is often eating the time spent with books and reading in general. According to some national statistics, most teenagers in Finland spend more than four hours a day on the Internet (not including time with TV) and that the number of heavy Internet and other media users (more than eight hours a day) is increasing just as it is doing in the U.S., Canada and beyond." https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/finlands-schools-were-once-the-envy-of-the-world-now-theyre-slipping/2016/12/08/dcfd0f56-bd60-11e6-91ee-1adddfe36cbe_story.html

[Chelli]

I read this article earlier. It really made me rethink how I'm dealing with screens, especially phones/tablets during "free time", moving forward.

 

Honestly, it's something I've seen with my teen and her friends, but I do make it a point to take her for lots of face to face meet ups as well. However, they are all on their phone when they get together in person too, but now they are chatting with those who aren't there and taking pictures to post to social media.

 

It's a different teen culture for sure.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Chelli

[Rebel Yell]

I skimmed the article, and agree with much of it... BUT...

For the most part, kids can only do things with other kids if other kids are available.

 

In the 80s, I could literally walk out my front door and there would be a dozen kids play kickball. The curb in front of my house was first base. 15 years ago when Diamond was about age 7, there was not a child to be found for blocks... and we live in the same house I grew up in! So the only way for sports and interaction was traveling to organized teams or dance classes.

 

So now, if BabyBaby (15) were to go to the roller rink, we'd have to travel back in time because they've all been torn down. The mall has a youth policy that during certain hours anyone under age 18 must be accompanied by someone 21+ close by. There are no video game arcades. Places where kids should be able to just hangout actively discourage teens from doing so.

 

So unless every kid simultaneously gives up theirn phone AND free/cheap/accessible places to hang out magically appear, then what can they (realistically) do?

 

And I don't know for certain that smart phones have ruined my kids. One especially, the one with a wider circle of aquaintences, is often GLAD to not be a part of things when she's seems them posting about dumb stuff they do, rather than unhappy to not be included.

 

I don't know what the answer is, or if it can be fixed. I think there are some great things about the phones, and some unfortunate things.

 

It has made it easier for me to say "yes" to many activities and adventures because we can stay in touch. I was raised my a master worrier, and fear would often prevent me from permitting many harmless activities.

[Guinevere]

I do see issues with too much phone use. My eldest is only 12, and she only has a flip phone for when she is gone at activities. Lots and lots of kids we know are constantly on devices. We might be waiting on a child at lessons, and my kids are playing with legoes, but, pretty soon all the kids in the room are huddled around the child who brought a screen. I don't want my kids staring at stuff all the time, but I also don't want to be making a big deal about it and causing other parents to feel like I'm judging. I really don't care if their child is using a device! I just don't want mine to! I try to remember to tell my kids ahead of time that they can't sit and watch something, but it's hard to enforce. Sometimes I just sit on the floor and try to play with all the kids so I am more interesting than the device. We also have sought out activities that don't allow electronics on the premises. At least in the down time at those activities, the kids just hang out.

[Caclcoca]

I read this article this evening.  I knew some of the info, but I had not connected a lot of it to smartphones and tablets.  Dh and I will be rethinking these things in the near future.

[Guest]

I like that it's mostly about generational trends not one particular "uphill both ways in the snow" old v young comparison.

[nansk]

I definitely see an effect on my 12yo. She used to be glued to a book or Kindle. Now, she spends several hours of her free time on the phone. And she is not reading anything on it; she is looking at videos of herself on Snapchat or Musical.ly - a completely pointless activity, imo.

 

But I don't blame entirely her. She has no siblings or cousins to play with. And all her friends are on their own phones. Even before we got her the phone last year, when we used to get together with a few families, all the kids would be clustered together, each on his/her own device, leaving my dd to grow bored and unhappy. So there is a certain amount of peer pressure of having your own phone and all the cool apps installed, getting friends to follow each other, etc.

 

 

 

But, then again, I want my kids to learn to self-regulate....

I do, too. But right now that is not happening. For a few years at least, we have to restrict access and monitor their phone usage, till they mature enough to see the advantage of doing so themselves.

Edited August 5, 2017 by nansk

[nixpix5]

None of this is new information but she does a nice job summarizing the trend. It goes hand in hand with an article I read about more young children needing physical therapy, speech therapy and occupational therapy due to inadequate physical play and interactions. Some kids literally go to OT so they can hold a pencil, sit in a chair, balance on a beam. All things kids once got plenty of.

 

The piece that alarms me is when they all come of age. They will have been reared on tech so their brains will have wired quite differently from previous generations. What once would have looked like AD/HD will just be the new normal brain. The only ones who will have experienced a different type of brain wiring will have been previous generations. As decades have rolled on and we get together less and become Wall-E computer people, I see a leap in people being on some sort of medication to try to move their brain chemicals back. I equate it to continuing to eat whatever you want and taking cholesterol and blood pressure medication. The research is showing a clear link to mental health issues and tech but nobody knows what to do about it since tech is here to stay.

Edited August 5, 2017 by nixpix5

[cave canem]

I don't know, but I sure am sick of them.

[Arcadia]

And she is not reading anything on it; she is looking at videos of herself on Snapchat or Musical.ly - a completely pointless activity, imo.

...

Even before we got her the phone last year, when we used to get together with a few families, all the kids would be clustered together, each on his/her own device, leaving my dd to grow bored and unhappy. So there is a certain amount of peer pressure of having your own phone and all the cool apps installed, getting friends to follow each other, etc.

DS12 is usually building something in Blocksworld because we don't have enough Lego's for him to build. DS11 would be car racing and he knows most models of racing cars now. I have to ration for both boys even though DS12 can be happy with no screen time while DS11 can have meltdowns.

 

My DS12 attended a math summer day camp recently and most kids have their smartphones because of calling parents for pickup. No free parking at that campus. Kids would cluster and compare games scores in the morning before camp start and those without smartphones are unintentionally left out. My kid told me they play on their phones during lunch but lunch time was like 20 mins so not much time to play.

 

My BIL's kids are in S3, S1 and P4 (10, 13 and 15 years old). There is peer pressure to have a smart phone and a tablet.

 

The thing with camera phones was that some privacy is lost. Smartphones and social media made it worse. Missteps are recorded for prosperity by people who may just think it is funny. I know my friends and family used to laugh while watching America's funniest home videos. However now everyone seems to become unintentionally reality TV actors. Mean comments in text are there for all to see at anyone's convenience. In my childhood days, I could have a quarrel with someone and be good friends again in the same day. Now the quarrel might be in text and viewed by many friends making it hard for the original squabblers to move on emotionally.

[KungFuPanda]

I'm glad I dodged this by having older kids. This level of connectedness came later in their childhoods and nobody got a phone til high school. My college dd still sees her friends regularly and they do normal, real-world things together. Homeschooled son doesn't have a phone, but he has a tablet that stays at home.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'll be the odd woman out.  A smartphone is a tool. - including being a tool for keeping in touch.  Both my teens have smartphones.  Dh and I have smartphones.  It has aided us in many ways esp. in allowing us to use up time confetti in productive ways (making lists, looking up recipes while we are at a store, keeping in touch with various people etc.)  Some of the time confetti is used for fun "useless" things but I don't mind that.  It hasn't kept any of us from not interacting with people in real life.  And it has allowed us to be more productive in hands on tasks because of specific apps which we've chosen to use. 

[Ausmumof3]

I think some of the things may have other causes than just smartphones. Like driving. It's become much harder to get a license. Maybe it's too daunting to start for some kids. And studies of other cultures show that our idea of a teenage rebellion isn't actually a necessary stage of human development.

 

I do think they have an impact. Some of the impact is probably from parents who are interest and iPhone obsessed. It's too soon to know for sure what the impact will be though I think.

 

Mind Change is an interesting read for those interested in reading deeper although inconclusive.

[nansk]

I'm glad I dodged this by having older kids. 

I'm glad I dodged this by having my kid before the advent of smartphones! I see younger parents now constantly checking their phones and missing out on interacting with their kids. 

[imagine.more]

I read the article and found it interesting as well. 

 

The thing that has me thinking is that this can't *just* be a smartphone thing. We don't allow our kids to have phones until 16....there is zero need for a child to have a phone imo until they are driving places themselves. So my 15 year old doesn't have a phone. Also, she has disabilities so she doesn't really do the internet thing either. She plays 30 minutes of PBSkids.com games most days. She calls her birth family once a week on my phone. She has emailed with friends a few times, and most of her friends here don't have phones (15-16 is a typical age to get cell phones among our social group). But, I see the exact same trend of zero desire for independence. The kids don't talk about getting their license. They don't date until 16-18 (this I'm okay with, haha!). They have no idea what they want to do when they grow up/where they'll go to college. DD15 NEVER makes plans with her friends on her own, doesn't go anywhere alone (her choice, not ours), and has expressed no desire to get a job and cried when I told her by 16 she'd need one because of course we're not giving an allowance at 16+ years old. She thought it was a punishment! I had to explain that it was just common sense, why should we give an allowance when she can legally work??  DD15 spent her first 12 years in the usual American culture. Zero emphasis on independence. She was given a phone at 9, but then of course it stopped being useful when her birth mom didn't pay the bill. She was not even allowed to use a knife to cut her food at 10. She spent 90% of her time at home in their apartment with her birth mom. She went to public school where everything was super-structured and she was told what to do every minute of the day. She was not allowed to walk to friends' houses or explore hobbies on her own. 

 

Contrasting that with my younger birth kids, I don't see this trend in them at all though they fit into the same 1995-2012 (iGen) generation that DD15 does. 

 

Recently, my 9 year old wanted to sign up for the library reading club which gives prizes. I told him I was too busy to manage that right now but he was welcome to do it on his own. He went, signed up, gave the librarian my email and his library card, and started. He keeps track of the books he reads, shows his list to the librarian, and selects his own prize (a book or small toy, which he usually shares with his sisters). He also carries a wallet with a bit of cash from birthdays/allowance and his library card. He makes small purchases on his own at the store. He decided completely on his own to use his birthday money to take his dad and brother to go bowling. At home he has his own interests and hobbies. He has career interests that are realistic for the future. 

 

My 6.5 year old also has what I see to be a typical level of independence for his age. He makes plans with friends at co-op to get together to play (often without asking us parents first, so sometimes I have to reign him in, lol!). He has hobbies and interests. He will play in the woods alone happily for hours with no direction from me. He has been responsible with his library books lately so I'll be getting him his own wallet to manage his library card independently. He constantly has schemes to earn money (lemonade stand, etc.) because he recognizes there are things he wants beyond what we buy (which is all needs and a few wants at gift-giving occasions) and he needs to find ways to earn money to get them. I don't think the kid is physically capable of being bored, lol!

 

So there must be something bigger about our culture that is causing this total lack of desire for freedom and independence. I think mostly it's the policies like someone mentioned above of not even allowing teens to do anything alone. Malls treat anyone under 18 like a child and dissuade them from hanging out without adult supervision. Parents won't let anyone under 18 babysit their precious toddler  :001_rolleyes: and companies won't hire under 16. Neighborhoods are no longer set up with stay at home parents so kids aren't home...they're in daycare, then after school care, and then organized sports right up until dark or later. Impromptu play outside with friends is harder to come by. CPS is called for neglect if a 6 year old is seen riding his bike in the neighborhood, even though that was 100% normal and expected even 20 years ago. And parents just don't expect their kids to be independent anymore.

 

But it's so pervasive that if you try to buck the trend you have an uphill battle. My 15 yo has no desire to drive because none of her friends are driving yet, so she doesn't feel that slight sting of being left out. Her friends are just as bad at making plans together as she is, so even when I push her to make plans (like this summer when i tried to get her to invite friends to a movie) it doesn't pan out because three 14-15 year old girls apparently can't just pick a day and go.

 

We're actually factoring in proximity to other kids' houses when looking for our next home to buy. Right now we're a long drive from everyone, but I am willing to give up my hope of more land just to make sure my younger kids can grow up riding their bikes to friends' houses or playing basketball in the street. If that means living in town, then so be it. Because if I have to parent another uber-dependent/unconfident teen like DD I will lose my mind. 

[zejh]

Supposedly, my oldest fits in this generation, but she's not quite 5, so I have no idea how they'd figure out if she and her cohort will fit the trend or not... Anyhow, I do wonder how much is dependent on geography. I see enough middle school kids going to the pizza shop or ice cream shop near our house that I'm not too worried about letting my kids start to do things like that at appropriate ages. Where we live, getting a driver's license would be less crucial for independence than some other places. Still, I wouldn't want to be stuck playing chauffeur when my kids are old enough to take themselves places. Of course, I'd also want to make sure they understood not being distracted while driving. I'm not sure how I'm doing wrt screen time. Video chats with grandparents I view as a positive change. Streaming video does make it hard to explain that not all the shows are available all the time, but on the bright side, it really minimizes exposure to advertising, and I've managed to limit things like drawing apps on my phone to times when we're in a waiting room or such.

 

So, who knows. If the article is to be believed, my daughter will be different from her brother and tbd baby sister, but I'll believe that when I see it.

[Guest]

I'll be the odd woman out.  A smartphone is a tool. - including being a tool for keeping in touch.  Both my teens have smartphones.  Dh and I have smartphones.  It has aided us in many ways esp. in allowing us to use up time confetti in productive ways (making lists, looking up recipes while we are at a store, keeping in touch with various people etc.)  Some of the time confetti is used for fun "useless" things but I don't mind that.  It hasn't kept any of us from not interacting with people in real life.  And it has allowed us to be more productive in hands on tasks because of specific apps which we've chosen to use. 

 

It does, however, keep some other people from pursuing more happiness and productivity-producing activities and goals, and there is a generational aspect to that.

 

The article is not about one specific family.

[kewb]

The lack of desire for independence is not due to the smart phone. In my area it is because parents don't foster independence.

Mine couldn't wait to get their permits and licenses because I don't always drive them where and when. Sorry, I have a life, too. Another factor is cost of insurance where I live. Parents are happy for their teen to wait because it is a big hike in premiums. Fewer teens work in high school because their are fewer opportunities and some parents don't want their teen to work during the school year. Or they send them on teen tours or they take summer classes. He opportunities to just be aren't there because teens are treated like pariahs.

 

The smart phone has definitely changed what we think of as childhood and the teen years. I am hesitant to say it is ruined. It is different. That doesn't make it good or bad.

[Barb_]

I agree with kewb and wonder if some of the circumstances the author sees as effects are actually causes. My older teens babysat constantly, now no one wants teen sitters. people post on my next door boards that they want adult, responsible babysitters. No one drives. People chase loiterering teens away. If there is nothing to do, smartphones are a great boredom killer.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It does, however, keep some other people from pursuing more happiness and productivity-producing activities and goals, and there is a generational aspect to that.

 

The article is not about one specific family.

No, it's not about one specific family. It's about a writer (and researcher according to his own words) who is twisting statistics and loosely done surveys to fit a very narrow premise.

 

As someone else pointed out , some of these generational trends have other reasons that have nothing to do with smartphones- like driving later. I'm purposely holding my teens back on driving because of COST. And so are all the parents of teens I know in this area.

 

Kids in that generation do appear to be less independent. But helicopter parenting (which has its own studies) explains that much better. And bemoaning the lack of teenage sex as a marker of less independence? I'll take that gladly (though I think that has other reasons like better education on the risks of stds and teen pregnancy). And perhaps kids with helicopter parents have less of an opportunity to engage in hanky panky.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[RegGuheert]

We have 11 smartphones on our cell phone plan and eight iPads.  Here's my take on how they are used:

 

- MomsintheGarden and I use our iPads extensively, mainly for web browsing.  MomsintheGarden uses her phone for texting, but I do that quite a bit less.

- DS27 uses his phone for chatting with friends/colleagues quite a bit.  He lives alone and it is how he stays in touch.

- DD24 also uses her phone for chatting with friends and colleagues, but not as much as her older brother.  She has an iPad she does not use.

- DS19 uses his phone to keep in touch with friends via text messages.  He just started this since he went away to college.  I think that really comes in handy for keeping in touch during the summer and winter breaks.

- DS17, DD15, DS15 and DS13 each have smartphones and iPads.  None of them use their smartphones.  They all use their iPads to varying degrees: DS17 and DS13 probably play the most on their iPads, but they all use them for school stuff.

 

So I guess the conclusion is that MomsintheGarden, DS27, DD24, and DS19 are the ones who use their smartphones for texting the most.  MomsintheGarden, DS17 and I probably use our iPads the most.  Part of the reason the younger children do not use their smartphones/tablets more is because we have pretty strict filtering/limits on their usage.

 

Where I probably am more concerned is with their PCs: DS27, DS17, DS15, and DS13 spend quite a bit of time playing video games.  Compared with their smartphone usage, that is a much bigger slice of their time.

[Lady Florida.]

I like that it's mostly about generational trends not one particular "uphill both ways in the snow" old v young comparison.

 

OT but when we lived in NJ I actually did walk to school uphill both ways in the snow. We lived in apartments on a hill. My school was on a hill. To walk to school we went down the hill where we lived, over a few streets, and up the hill to school. Coming home we went down the hill the school was on, over a few streets, and up the hill to our apartments. :D

I'll be the odd woman out.  A smartphone is a tool. - including being a tool for keeping in touch.  Both my teens have smartphones.  Dh and I have smartphones.  It has aided us in many ways esp. in allowing us to use up time confetti in productive ways (making lists, looking up recipes while we are at a store, keeping in touch with various people etc.)  Some of the time confetti is used for fun "useless" things but I don't mind that.  It hasn't kept any of us from not interacting with people in real life.  And it has allowed us to be more productive in hands on tasks because of specific apps which we've chosen to use. 

 

 

No, it's not about one specific family. It's about a writer (and researcher according to his own words) who is twisting statistics and loosely done surveys to fit a very narrow premise.

 

As someone else pointed out , some of these generational trends have other reasons that have nothing to do with smartphones- like driving later. I'm purposely holding my teens back on driving because of COST. And so are all the parents of teens I know in this area.

 

Kids in that generation do appear to be less independent. But helicopter parenting (which has its own studies) explains that much better. And bemoaning the lack of teenage sex as a marker of less independence? I'll take that gladly (though I think that has other reasons like better education on the risks of stds and teen pregnancy). And perhaps kids with helicopter parents have less of an opportunity to engage in hanky panky.

 

ITA with all of the above. It's tempting to blame one thing and the most obvious thing is the smartphone. Some of this has been coming on for a while and now we see the results. 

[bethben]

I have had discussions with my 16 year old ds who is trying to break away from a toxic girl/guy relationship. He asked how DH and I dated long distance and kept from getting too emotionally attached before marriage. DH and I wrote letters...those took at least a week to get back and forth. We talked on the phone 1-2 times a week because you actually had to pay extra for long distance. AND, we were usually connected to the phone with a cord. If you are in a situation like my DH was, the phone was in a place where people were constantly coming in and out.

 

With texting, you can be in contact with someone 24/7. It's almost like living with someone. There is no buffer space and time away from each other without a conscious decision. How can that be healthy for anyone? You never really have alone time when you can have texting conversations with someone constantly. Most of the teen girls I know are in counseling or on medication for anxiety and/or depression.

 

I told ds that I would get off of Facebook if he would turn the phone off for longer stretches of time. I'm doing my part and he seems to be doing his part because I'm not hearing his phone text alert constantly ringing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Frances]

I read the article and found it interesting as well.

 

The thing that has me thinking is that this can't *just* be a smartphone thing. We don't allow our kids to have phones until 16....there is zero need for a child to have a phone imo until they are driving places themselves. So my 15 year old doesn't have a phone. Also, she has disabilities so she doesn't really do the internet thing either. She plays 30 minutes of PBSkids.com games most days. She calls her birth family once a week on my phone. She has emailed with friends a few times, and most of her friends here don't have phones (15-16 is a typical age to get cell phones among our social group). But, I see the exact same trend of zero desire for independence. The kids don't talk about getting their license. They don't date until 16-18 (this I'm okay with, haha!). They have no idea what they want to do when they grow up/where they'll go to college. DD15 NEVER makes plans with her friends on her own, doesn't go anywhere alone (her choice, not ours), and has expressed no desire to get a job and cried when I told her by 16 she'd need one because of course we're not giving an allowance at 16+ years old. She thought it was a punishment! I had to explain that it was just common sense, why should we give an allowance when she can legally work?? DD15 spent her first 12 years in the usual American culture. Zero emphasis on independence. She was given a phone at 9, but then of course it stopped being useful when her birth mom didn't pay the bill. She was not even allowed to use a knife to cut her food at 10. She spent 90% of her time at home in their apartment with her birth mom. She went to public school where everything was super-structured and she was told what to do every minute of the day. She was not allowed to walk to friends' houses or explore hobbies on her own.

 

Contrasting that with my younger birth kids, I don't see this trend in them at all though they fit into the same 1995-2012 (iGen) generation that DD15 does.

 

Recently, my 9 year old wanted to sign up for the library reading club which gives prizes. I told him I was too busy to manage that right now but he was welcome to do it on his own. He went, signed up, gave the librarian my email and his library card, and started. He keeps track of the books he reads, shows his list to the librarian, and selects his own prize (a book or small toy, which he usually shares with his sisters). He also carries a wallet with a bit of cash from birthdays/allowance and his library card. He makes small purchases on his own at the store. He decided completely on his own to use his birthday money to take his dad and brother to go bowling. At home he has his own interests and hobbies. He has career interests that are realistic for the future.

 

My 6.5 year old also has what I see to be a typical level of independence for his age. He makes plans with friends at co-op to get together to play (often without asking us parents first, so sometimes I have to reign him in, lol!). He has hobbies and interests. He will play in the woods alone happily for hours with no direction from me. He has been responsible with his library books lately so I'll be getting him his own wallet to manage his library card independently. He constantly has schemes to earn money (lemonade stand, etc.) because he recognizes there are things he wants beyond what we buy (which is all needs and a few wants at gift-giving occasions) and he needs to find ways to earn money to get them. I don't think the kid is physically capable of being bored, lol!

 

So there must be something bigger about our culture that is causing this total lack of desire for freedom and independence. I think mostly it's the policies like someone mentioned above of not even allowing teens to do anything alone. Malls treat anyone under 18 like a child and dissuade them from hanging out without adult supervision. Parents won't let anyone under 18 babysit their precious toddler :001_rolleyes: and companies won't hire under 16. Neighborhoods are no longer set up with stay at home parents so kids aren't home...they're in daycare, then after school care, and then organized sports right up until dark or later. Impromptu play outside with friends is harder to come by. CPS is called for neglect if a 6 year old is seen riding his bike in the neighborhood, even though that was 100% normal and expected even 20 years ago. And parents just don't expect their kids to be independent anymore.

 

But it's so pervasive that if you try to buck the trend you have an uphill battle. My 15 yo has no desire to drive because none of her friends are driving yet, so she doesn't feel that slight sting of being left out. Her friends are just as bad at making plans together as she is, so even when I push her to make plans (like this summer when i tried to get her to invite friends to a movie) it doesn't pan out because three 14-15 year old girls apparently can't just pick a day and go.

 

We're actually factoring in proximity to other kids' houses when looking for our next home to buy. Right now we're a long drive from everyone, but I am willing to give up my hope of more land just to make sure my younger kids can grow up riding their bikes to friends' houses or playing basketball in the street. If that means living in town, then so be it. Because if I have to parent another uber-dependent/unconfident teen like DD I will lose my mind.

I think the driving thing is very location dependent. My son has always been very, very independent and self-confident and was given adult responsibilities (teaching adult karate classes and technical audio/video classes) by others who recognized his maturity at as young as 13. But he did not get his license until 18 and most of his friends were the same. Where we live, he could walk or bike to everything local. We would not have let him drive alone at 16 to his activities or friends in the major metropolitan area an hour away where traffic is insane. So there was really nothing to be gained by getting his license early. The bonus of him waiting is that he has never been on our insurance.

 

My nieces, on the other hand, live very rural and their dad works in the car industry. Both had cars before they even passed their driver's test. And although it took a few tries, they both got a license when they were 16.

[bettyandbob]

I don't think smart phones are the reason young people have reduced interaction with peers. 

 

Young people today have almost no spontaneous interactions. From a young age they do not go outside and play. If they do go outside and play, they may be the only kids in the neighborhood that does. There are no spontaneous meet ups for kick ball or shoot hoops. As a child I rode my bike everywhere from a young age. People do not allow children to explore like that. If they do, some well meaning stranger (or jerk neighbor) may report the family to CPS. As a kid I noticed the occasional other kid who took similar trails that led to the pool. That afternoon I'd make friends with that child playing sharks and minnows. For the rest of the summer I'd have a different neighborhood to bike to to meet up with new friend. Having friends in different neighborhoods was cool because you got to try out different playground equipment in different parks or have new woods to explore. If that friend was visiting dad for the summer then I had a pen pal the rest of the year. 

 

My kids learned to ride bikes, but no one took there bikes beyond the bounds of our neighborhood. Kids who regularly rode bikes only rode them on family bike rides, not for an independent activity where they explored a bit of the world and developed independent thinking and problem solving. 

 

In raising my kids I found that play and friendship development was facilitated by parents. I can say for sure my mother was never involved in my friendship development, even at a very young age. She didn't call anyone from preschool for a play date. I was supposed to find someone outside the house or play on my own. I had to figure out how to set up social interaction with peers. 

 

From what I've seen, kid social behavior goes from playdates organized by mom, to planned community programs (sports, clubs, etc). These planned activities with fees and enrollments start at a very young age. It's all fun and safe because we know it's monitored and we have a way to meet the parents. None of this promotes being independent. It doesn't promote learning to make friends without structured bounds. 

 

I don't think smart phones are as big an issue. There have been many factors that have led to less in person social interaction. 

[Laura Corin]

We turned off the data on Hobbes' smart phone. And we control his WiFi access at home. It's still difficult.

 

On the other hand, we live rurally, so the time he spends texting friends would not have been spent hanging out together, because getting around is not easy.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Laura Corin

[Paige]

I can't get too worked up about it. Change happens; there's always pros and cons. A few hundred years ago, people were moaning about kids wasting their lives reading, of all things, instead of doing more productive things. Then TV was killing everyone's lives, and a little later it was video games. Now smartphones are changing things, but the complaints about "kids today" are not novel. Changes may be happening faster because technology is moving faster, but I don't think it's a social crisis. We will adapt, move on, etc. 

 

Kids today have different lifestyles in many ways than I had but it is not all negative even if it's not all positive. 

[Amy Elizabeth]

I agree that smart phones are not the big bad wolf. My husband and I are from the Oregon Trail generation, and while we did have internet in our teen years and were able to email each other, we also have a stack of letters we wrote each other. My siblings are all millennials and none of them have any letters from their spouses because they were never truly disconnected from them. Today we use the internet to learn all kinds of things like how to dress a deer, how to make soap, how to fix the toilet, to learn about the Byzantine empire,...our kids use it to play games with friends that moved away, to learn how to customize dolls, to learn how to make miniature food/toys, etc... Heck, electronics also helped my daughter learn to talk (she has autism)! Yes, our kids do spend a lot of time playing games and watching shows they like, but I think it is my job to make a point of continually exposing them to all the variety of wonderful things there are out there. As time goes by and they continue to develop, they will find those things that they love from the hopefully wide feast I have spread before them.

 

It's not the kids. It's not the parents. It's about relationships and those aren't things that can be judged or measured.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

[Bluegoat]

I enjoyed the article - in particular that it was very much best on data trends, rather than just anecdotes.

 

I think it's a bit - actually, a lot -  unfair to say the writer things smartphones are the only factor in this trends - he specifically says that isn't so. But that its created a much steeper set of changes than he's seen compared to other generational changes.

 

So it's entirely possible to think that isolation among kids is a trend that has been increasing for years, but that it has suddenly taken off in a huge way.

 

I do see the effect of the social media thing here with my tween.  I've really tried to make her independent and interactive, and so far she largely is.  Luckily she can easily walk to friends, and to other places like violin lessons or shops.  Even though I sometimes would like to be more rural, I would hate for my kids to lose that independence.  My younger dd is more of a homebody but will go out and muck around with the neighbourhood kids.  And for my ds7, it's been a really important thing for him to have that independence - he's a bit of a different sort of child and it gives him a lot of confidence.

 

But my dd12s friends are now getting smartphones, and are increasingly wanting to chat.  And my dd was given a tablet by her grandmother - she's already had it taken away multiple times for using it when she isn't supposed to, including in bed.  What I hate most though is that instead of doing things she used to, like sewing, all she wants to do is play on the tablet.

 

The thing someone mentioned about all the kids being huddled around a tablet at an event really resonates with me.  I see this happening at church now - instead of making up games, they are al glee to the thing that one kid brought.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/has-the-smartphone-destroyed-a-generation/534198/?utm_source=atlfb

 

 

Really interesting article.  Visited a potential boarding school for one of the kids and they are only allowed access to their phones during a 2-3 hour window, after homework has been checked.  Have been thinking of disabling the internet in our house, except for those two hours, too.  But, then again, I want my kids to learn to self-regulate....

 

 

 

I've given dd12 largely a free hand since she was given her own tablet a week or so ago, other than no tablet in bed.  She's pretty uh failed with it every time, so we are going to have to create some rules.

 

The way I think of this is, it's like drinking alcohol.  Yes, I want my kids to enjoy it, and drink responsibly, and self-regulate. But I'm not going to do that by saying "help yourself to beer ad wine, any time!"  I'm going to wait until they are older.  

 

I'm actually more liberal than most - I'll very likely allow them to drink wine or beer with dinner when they are about 16, if I or my dh are.  I think that's a great way to learn to enjoy it for the taste, not as a way to alter consciousness, which tends to be what they'll see from other young people when they leave home, which is a one-sided view.  

 

Giving rules about screen use is no different, to me.

[SKL]

Well, to be fair, I'm not sure I always used time the best way when I was a tween / teen.

 

My kids are still young, but so far I don't see them being messed up by phones.  Mostly they use them during times when they'd otherwise be bored silly or fighting with each other.  They still do all the same stuff they did before phones.  I also like that they use the internet to learn new things, even if these aren't the particular things I'd spend time teaching them.  (Like how to apply make-up, do hair, or dance to the current popular music.)  I do discourage any kind of social media.  So maybe that is a difference.  When they are 13 I will let them do social media as long as they don't get stupid about it.

[SKL]

I'm not sure of the cause-effect of happiness / social interactions.  It could be the other way around.  And some people happen to like being alone.  I was like that as a teen back in the early 1980s, with none of these modern evils to blame for it.   :)

 

Another comment - some of those trends could be due to parenting trends based on fears.  More and more, people are afraid or feel it is irresponsible to let kids go out on their own.  We've seen it even here, where kids almost old enough to drive - or even older - are "not allowed" to go around town alone etc.  So it shouldn't surprise anyone that fewer teens are doing that or even wanting to do it.

 

I would also say that some of the trends they cite are rather positive in my opinion.

 

Also, maybe Gen X is not the best generation to compare today's teens to.

[Lady Florida.]

Young people today have almost no spontaneous interactions. From a young age they do not go outside and play. If they do go outside and play, they may be the only kids in the neighborhood that does. There are no spontaneous meet ups for kick ball or shoot hoops.

 

This was ds' experience when he was younger. He loved being outside, even in the Florida heat. There weren't many kids in our neighborhood then, but the ones that did live here were never seen playing outside. Fortunately he was happy to spend hours playing in the yard with his dog, looking for bugs and lizards, and once he learned how, riding his bike in the cul de sac. Still, it would have been nice if he had other kids to do that with. The few kids who did live here were either in daycare/after school care or weren't allowed to play outside on their own. This was in the early 2000s, so smartphones had nothing to do with it.

[Amy Elizabeth]

I suspect the danger in smart phones, electronics, etc lies in the fact that we as a culture do not teach our children how to enjoy their leisure. Many adults I know today got out to eat, play video games, watch TV, go to movies, etc when they have off time. Not that any of those are bad, but it is very difficult for me and my husband to find outher adults that enjoying DOING and LEARNING new things!!! When you enjoy doing and learning new things, you use smart phones for what they are for...tools. That right there probably explains a lot of depression and social unhappiness.

 

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[Bluegoat]

I'm not sure of the cause-effect of happiness / social interactions.  It could be the other way around.  And some people happen to like being alone.  I was like that as a teen back in the early 1980s, with none of these modern evils to blame for it.   :)

 

Another comment - some of those trends could be due to parenting trends based on fears.  More and more, people are afraid or feel it is irresponsible to let kids go out on their own.  We've seen it even here, where kids almost old enough to drive - or even older - are "not allowed" to go around town alone etc.  So it shouldn't surprise anyone that fewer teens are doing that or even wanting to do it.

 

I would also say that some of the trends they cite are rather positive in my opinion.

 

Also, maybe Gen X is not the best generation to compare today's teens to.

 

He did address that point specifically in the article.

 

I think fear based parenting is defiantly another aspect of teens being isolated.  I think in many cases, they don't really ever build up their own independent network of relationships that they are used to managing on their own.  I suspect though that social media exacerbates that.

[Guest]

I think the driving thing is very location dependent. My son has always been very, very independent and self-confident and was given adult responsibilities (teaching adult karate classes and technical audio/video classes) by others who recognized his maturity at as young as 13. But he did not get his license until 18 and most of his friends were the same. Where we live, he could walk or bike to everything local. We would not have let him drive alone at 16 to his activities or friends in the major metropolitan area an hour away where traffic is insane. So there was really nothing to be gained by getting his license early. The bonus of him waiting is that he has never been on our insurance.

 

My nieces, on the other hand, live very rural and their dad works in the car industry. Both had cars before they even passed their driver's test. And although it took a few tries, they both got a license when they were 16.

I don't think it necessarily is location dependant. Sure, if you live in a very bikeable/walkable area, there's less incentive to get a license, but I do not live in such an area, and still noticed this trend several years ago. (I even wrote a post about it, which got a strong reaction from the parents on here who are intentionally delaying driving for their kids.)

 

My take on it is what a PP said - parents are not fostering independance. They do not want their kids to drive, because of cost, lack of an "extra" car, and/or fear of accidents. Or fear that the kid will not be where they say they are going to be. For my part, I wanted my kids to drive independantly as early as possible. My reasons: I don't want to drive them all over God's green earth, I want them to have loads of driving experience before they go to college, I want them to get jobs while in their upper teens (and, again, I don't want to drive them to their jobs), and I want them to have that sense of accomplishment from doing something challenging and mature.

 

Even though we are more rural, many parents are perfectly happy to drive the kids around for the reasons I cited. Among my personal friends, it has little to do with cost; it is because the parents are afraid of accidents or disobedience. This is what friends have actually stated was their reason: "She isn't in a hurry to get her license and that is fine with me! I don't need to be worrying whether she will get home safely, not to mention she may say she's going to the mall with Brianna, when really she's at a love shack with Tyler!"

[Bluegoat]

If it was location dependant, how would you account for the statistical change?  More people moving to suburbs and rural areas?  I think the trend is significantly the other way.

[Bluegoat]

I also think the attitude to driving has unrelated factors in things like ambivalence about the pollution it causes.  Cars just don't have the same sense of harmless fun as they did for other generations.

[Frances]

I also think the attitude to driving has unrelated factors in things like ambivalence about the pollution it causes. Cars just don't have the same sense of harmless fun as they did for other generations.

This was definitely a factor for many of my son's friends, especially those who live where public transportation is good and biking and walking are also viable options. And when they went out in a large group, it was easier to walk or use public transportation then take multiple cars.

[Frances]

I don't think it necessarily is location dependant. Sure, if you live in a very bikeable/walkable area, there's less incentive to get a license, but I do not live in such an area, and still noticed this trend several years ago. (I even wrote a post about it, which got a strong reaction from the parents on here who are intentionally delaying driving for their kids.)

 

My take on it is what a PP said - parents are not fostering independance. They do not want their kids to drive, because of cost, lack of an "extra" car, and/or fear of accidents. Or fear that the kid will not be where they say they are going to be. For my part, I wanted my kids to drive independantly as early as possible. My reasons: I don't want to drive them all over God's green earth, I want them to have loads of driving experience before they go to college, I want them to get jobs while in their upper teens (and, again, I don't want to drive them to their jobs), and I want them to have that sense of accomplishment from doing something challenging and mature.

 

Even though we are more rural, many parents are perfectly happy to drive the kids around for the reasons I cited. Among my personal friends, it has little to do with cost; it is because the parents are afraid of accidents or disobedience. This is what friends have actually stated was their reason: "She isn't in a hurry to get her license and that is fine with me! I don't need to be worrying whether she will get home safely, not to mention she may say she's going to the mall with Brianna, when really she's at a love shack with Tyler!"

For us, there was literally no place our son wanted or needed to go (except the major city one hour away) that he could not bike or walk. And he did often take the train to the city (walking distance from our house) and then use public transportation once there. And we only had one car and had no need for another as we both walk to work and can walk to almost anything else we need. We let him live alone in the big city the summer before his senior year while he did research at the state medical school, so we certainly weren't trying to limit his independence by not encouraging a license at 16 and paying for insurance and an extra car. Honestly, I consider cars a necessary evil, and am not willing to spend anymore money than absolutely necessary on one.

 

For my nieces living rurally and attending school in a different town and parents working in a third, cars are the only option, so it made sense for them to get a license as soon as they could. Besides environmental concerns, I would think that fewer people living rurally is another factor contributing to later licensing ages. My husband and I both grew up in rural areas, and almost everyone got a license as soon as they could, and many of the boys bought cars in high school. Where my nieces live they say it is still the same, but even more kids have cars now because many parents are buying them.

[bettyandbob]

I need to say not having a license does not mean you can't be independent. My siblings and I all had licenses but no cars. We rode bikes, walked and occasionally public transit. I was babysitting and managing money starting at 11. We all had jobs and provided our own transportation to said jobs. We were in suburbs without a lot of public transit in the late 70s. We figured it out.

 

We were expected to figure it out. I think there is a segment of the population not having the expectation of children and teens to develop independence.

[Jean in Newcastle]

These sorts of articles and discussions that condemn an entire generation make me roll my eyes. Yes, I know there are trends. But trends are not the whole picture. Plenty of people buck trends. And people tend to be more complicated and might fit some trends and not others. And of course there is the whole "correlation doesn't equal causation" thing.

 

I just spent all morning with teen volunteers with not a smartphone in sight. I think that some of the doomsayers need to get out more.

 

In addition, these conversations always seem to bring out a certain kind of smugness in people who aren't "ruining their kids". I have no problem with families and individuals making a whole range of choices on technology etc. but in my experience no one has a corner on winning parenting based on these choices. For one thing, as experienced parents know, our parenting choices are just one piece of the puzzle especially when it comes to teenagers.

 

 

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[Lang Syne Boardie]

These sorts of articles and discussions that condemn an entire generation make me roll my eyes. Yes, I know there are trends. But trends are not the whole picture. Plenty of people buck trends. And people tend to be more complicated and might fit some trends and not others. And of course there is the whole "correlation doesn't equal causation" thing.

 

I just spent all morning with teen volunteers with not a smartphone in sight. I think that some of the doomsayers need to get out more.

 

In addition, these conversations always seem to bring out a certain kind of smugness in people who aren't "ruining their kids". I have no problem with families and individuals making a whole range of choices on technology etc. but in my experience no one has a corner on winning parenting based on these choices. For one thing, as experienced parents know, our parenting choices are just one piece of the puzzle especially when it comes to teenagers.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree. My boys are tracfone, flip phone guys because they can't afford smartphones, so I could play the smug card if I wanted, but

 

1. They have their own challenges achieving maturity because that's normal, and

2. Their friends have smart phones but also have normal social skills, good work ethic, etc.

 

As the mother of four boys who are 13-21 years old this year, I can NOT handle the "woe unto their generation" messages anymore. Their generation might do better if we believe in them, and try to speak blessings instead of curses over them.

[Wheres Toto]

Well, to be fair, I'm not sure I always used time the best way when I was a tween / teen.

 

My kids are still young, but so far I don't see them being messed up by phones.  Mostly they use them during times when they'd otherwise be bored silly or fighting with each other.  They still do all the same stuff they did before phones.  I also like that they use the internet to learn new things, even if these aren't the particular things I'd spend time teaching them.  (Like how to apply make-up, do hair, or dance to the current popular music.)  I do discourage any kind of social media.  So maybe that is a difference.  When they are 13 I will let them do social media as long as they don't get stupid about it.

 

This made me laugh because as a tween/young teen I used to spend hours sitting on my bed playing solitaire (with real cards!) and listening to music.   Not exactly a productive use of time.   :laugh:

 

Dh and I were just discussing this today, we are a family of antisocial introverts.  We spent all day today at dd's swim meet, surrounded by people.  And it occurred to us that we really had no desire to join in any of the small talk going on around us.  We did chat with people a few times but never really fully joined any of the groups sitting around talking.   We weren't on devices that kept us from talking, we just didn't really want to.

 

Dd did run around with the kids her age, play board and card games (surprisingly few screens or devices were in use by kids) in between her events.  She probably has the most need for social interaction of anyone in the family.  She also has the most friends, which I guess isn't a coincidence.

 

Neither of my younger kids has a smartphone of their own yet.  We have no plans for them to get one any time soon.  They have tablets and computers and play games with controlled chat so we aren't anti-screen.   Dd has one friend who texts my phone for dd using her mother's phone, but she's the only one.

[wintermom]

I think smart phones are only one piece of the picture of society. They can be a really useful tool, and allow people of all ages to communicate easily, quickly and affordably, navigate through cities driving or walking, recording and videoing all kinds of things, access and investigate masses of information very quickly, and much more. There is nothing necessarily wrong with the tool itself, rather how it's used.  With people who are busy with life, and working and moving and doing things, smart phones are amazing tools. Creating that framework of a lifestyle where there are a variety of physical and mental activities, peaceful/quiet times, and social interactions, and then having electronic tools available to enhance some of these situations, seems to be attainable. Not everyone who has a smartphone is bound to it day and night. 

[Guest]

The most striking thing to me about the article, and other similar articles and conversations, is how unhappy some people are with their phone/internet use. But as everyone points out: that's where life happens. It's where you talk to your friends, how you find info both research and about local, irl events. Etc.

 

... Self included, obviously.

 

But A LOT of kids and teens absolutely do not know how to change their screen use, so that it's merely useful and not an actual drain on their happiness.

 

Heck, that goes for a lot of adults. I just had a friend over and she was saying how she hates her phone because she wastes so much time with it. I said, "put it down." She laughed, said, " ha I know right" and keyed in the password on her phone to respond to a message.

 

I have a hard time believing other people *only* see others with super joyful social media, phone, etc habits, and don't think kids have a particularly difficult time developing such habits.

 

A Homeschool board is basically self-selecting for proactive parents who are on the ball helping their kids use their limited time alive on the planet well.

Edited August 5, 2017 by OKBud

[thessa516]

I don't get too worked up about how today's teens are different in regards to driving or interacting with one another in the world. However, I would like to see more emphasis put on the emerging studies regarding mental health and social media use. To me, it's the most alarming part of the article. The author touched on it: 

 

Teens who spend three hours a day or more on electronic devices are 35 percent more likely to have a risk factor for suicide, such as making a suicide plan.

The more time teens spend looking at screens, the more likely they are to report symptoms of depression.

 

Accordingly, the number of teens who feel left out has reached all-time highs across age groups. Like the increase in loneliness, the upswing in feeling left out has been swift and significant.

This trend has been especially steep among girls.

 

Girls have also borne the brunt of the rise in depressive symptoms among today’s teens. Boys’ depressive symptoms increased by 21 percent from 2012 to 2015, while girls’ increased by 50 percent—more than twice as much.

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Correlation is not causation.

 

It doesn't take much thinking to flip these things around - maybe already depressed teens spend more time on their phones?

 

There are many more environmental factors affecting teens than phone usage.

I agree. Also people are more aware of the signs of depression now and are more likely to identify depression than in the past.