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[TechWife]

It sounds as if he is a sensitive person. You have said you are straightforward, I see myself that way as well. I would encourage you not to change in order to appease him. You have tried to figure out how to relate to him and he has said he won't tell you if you offend him. If you start walking on eggshells around him, you are allowing him to manipulate you. That may be a common interaction in his family, but it isn't in yours. I like what someone else suggested about asking him to trust you and that he really can assume the best of your intentions. Tell him that even though he has said he won't tell you if you offend him, that you will continue to be straightforward and if you truly ever have any issues with him, you will address them directly with him and that you won't leave him guessing. I think you can perhaps figure out how to relate to each other, but fundamentally changing your communication style shouldn't be part of the equation. Communicate thoughtfully but don't compromise who you are. As Rosie said, you will never see all of the egg shells and I recommended that you don't make eggshell detection your goal when communicating with anyone.

[nixpix5]

Quite honestly I think he is too sensitive. There is this old saying "we do not need to adapt the road to our children but we need our children to be able to adapt to the road" or something like that. It sounds like 1. He grew up in a passive aggressive household with what I call "double bind" family members. They say one thing but mean another. And 2. Life has altered itself around him too much that he doesn't adapt or just assumes the worst.

 

I like that he had the guts to be honest with you. That is a nice skill. Now he needs the guts to sit down and have a deeper conversation about communication. It takes two. You cannot do all of the changing. I would be humble and listen but the more sensitive someone is and the more you are hyper aware trying to change, the worst it is for him. Paranoid people are challenging and exhausting. Someone trying to bubble themselves from any level of criticism or judgment make me crazy but worse are the ones that see it everywhere even when it doesn't exist.

 

Medical school will toughen him up if he is heading that route.

[myfunnybunch]

If he is going to be in a permanent relationship with your dd, who will have ongoing medical circumstances that require frank discussion, he's going to have to toughen up. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be intentionally more aware of how you interact, but he has to at least meet you halfway and decide what to let roll off his back.

 

I think life is especially challenging for highly sensitive people who always read between the lines in search of offense (I know not all HSP are this way, but many I've met are and it really takes a lot of joy out of their lives).

 

No person can expect everyone they meet to know and understand his/her full backstory and thus change their own communication styles accordingly.

Yes, this.

 

Being a HSP or coming from a dysfunctional family does not mean that others are entirely responsible for changing to accommodate one's sensitivity. This could be a maturity issue, something that he can develop awareness of and learn to change as he moves through life, it could be a family pattern that will diminish as he develops trust and security in his relationship with your dd and with you, or it can become an emotionally abusive manipulation. Or in between, just a really unpleasant and difficult characteristic that makes it hard to have conversations. Who knows?

 

Be kind. Be aware of his issues. Be you. That sets a boundary for him that falls between you changing completely and him changing completely. There's got to be some balance, or the eggshells can turn into land mines.

[solascriptura]

He's not reading between the lines, but rather twisting your words. I would try to remain kind, patient, and cautious. In all of my years, I haven't figured out how to talk to people who do this. I usually end up feeling manipulated and exhausted from defending myself.

[bettyandbob]

I think there is nothing you can do. Seriously, I'd explain you are blunt and there is no hidden meaning.

 

The reason you are so involved in your dd's health care is because her illness has required a lot of advocacy and not one that is easily navigated without a well versed assistant. That's not something one easily does for oneself at the stroke of midnight on ones 18 the birthday.

 

How does your DD see the situation?

 

Your DD is quite vulnerable. She spends significant time with boyfriend's family in part there are issues with your younger DD. Is it possible this is not a good relationship, but she accepts it because being in his home is calmer/safer. I'd worry that the boyfriend was too controlling, but your DD did not want to admit red flags because of her sister's issues.

 

I apologize if I've run an incorrect tangent.

[chocolatechip]

 

** He really is. He thinks the sun was replaced with five fake suns, and that's why trees have moss. I am not making this up.

What the.  :huh:  :confused1:  :svengo:

[Guinevere]

I'm surprised how many posts are ready to torch the boyfriend.

 

So far, I've not heard anything that sounds "off" to me.  Honestly, I think, OP, that you are right to consider if you have speech patterns that are pushy or defensive.  Both of your examples came off that way to me.  This kid could be your son-in-law.  I think it's good to examine yourself and see if you can understand each other better.  

Edited July 30, 2017 by Guinevere

[Tanaqui]

What the.  :huh:  :confused1:  :svengo:

 

Yup. I'm still patting myself on the back for my ability to keep a straight face.

[KungFuPanda]

Do not tie yourself in knots trying to please this kid. If his personality is such that he's determined it be offended, he'll find a reason. I don't think this is about you at all.

[gardenmom5]

Putting aside the issue of how oversensitive he is or isn't, and why he may or may not be that way, and whether or not this is healthy for him or the OP's daughter, I'm just gonna say this:

 

I hate that quote. I utterly loathe it. It gets trotted out all the time by people who really mean "I can't be bothered not to offend you" and "You shouldn't care that I treat you like dirt" and "Don't come tattling to me just because the other kids punched you and stole your lunch money" and "Neither your feelings, nor you, matter to me at all" and "You're a whiner and a crybaby and stupid and therefore inferior to me".

 

I agree with everything you said about that condescending quote. - and it shouldn't be said to anyone.

 

It's like "sticks and stones".    somewhere, very recently, I just saw something about a girl whose boyfriend said that to her.  so she picked up a dictionary and threw it at him. and asked him if the words hurt now.

 

* Could go either way here, I suppose. I don't think we have enough context to say for sure.

 

Edit: Also, just FYI, there's no solid evidence that she actually is the one who put those words together in that order.

 

 

Perhaps because you don't see him as a good fit for your daughter and able to take care of her properly due to her medical issues, so subconsciously pushing to make sure he follows the rules. How old is he and is he taken proper care, especially when she has her blank moments or do you feel he is taking advantage?   

 

As for me I see it as a self esteem problem and bordering on emotionally abusive.  I say this only because I'm watching my father tread careful lines with his new lady friend who doesn't like how charming he is with everyone. Their relationship has revealed her long time unresolved baggage.  So I'm seeing for the bf,  baggage from a former relationship and hasn't learned how to deal with it.   

 

I have not seen her say anything about not considering him a  "good fit".

perhaps you are seeing things because of your father's new lady friend.

 

I agree that you have to be careful about how you bring it up, but I do think if you're close to your child and he or she knows you're not the type of be petty, the time to mention red flag behaviors is while the couple is dating rather than waiting until things get too serious. The more time an abusive or manipulative person has to influence your kid, the harder it may be for them to recognize it. If it's mentioned to them early in the relationship, hopefully they will begin to recognize it on their own if it continues to occur.

 

Giving your teen or adult child information isn't asking them to pick sides. I guess it depends on what kind of relationship you have with your kid, as well as on how you deliver that information.

 

i'll second this.  1ds had a gf who was . . . cahrayzy!   she was also a manipulative piece of work. (for starters, she made him dye his hair light blonde)  he wanted to end it, but didn't know how so things kept escalating.  through the whole thing - she tried to separate him from us.  I had a very good relationship with him before this started - and it was one of the things that enabled him to ask for help in how to get rid of her.   he was 19 - and asked me to help him.

 

so building a strong relationship with kids can help them if/when they start getting into relationships/pairing - or even prevent them from being drawn into a cahrayzy person in the first place.

 

 

So many posts here are like, "man this guy is so over the top sensitive." Well, speak as an HSP I can tell you I will get a vibe if someone doesn't like me. I will pick up on body language, tone, etc. So if you walk around acting like, "sigh, I can't do anything right. Sigh, this person is so difficult. Why won't he change?!" he can probably sense that. Stop looking at him as "dude with an issue."

 

 

 

 

"vibes" can be wrong.  I very recently had a woman of my acquaintance come up to me *stating* she "had a vibe" I was offended by something she did - and she wanted to clear the air.  I had no clue what she was talking about.

[heartlikealion]

Seriously? You guys want him to go around saying, "that's offensive" each time she says something offensive? That's just extreme to the other end. Neither person needs to do all the changing. But as OP stated, she can only change herself. So being mindful of his reaction (body language) or whatever is a start. You tell a joke and no one laughs it doesn't mean they are going to feel the urge to approach you and say, "you know, that joke was offensive." Sometimes you just gotta put two and two together.

 

I have not seen her say anything about not considering him a  "good fit".

perhaps you are seeing things because of your father's new lady friend.

 

 

i'll second this.  1ds had a gf who was . . . cahrayzy!   she was also a manipulative piece of work. (for starters, she made him dye his hair light blonde)  he wanted to end it, but didn't know how so things kept escalating.  through the whole thing - she tried to separate him from us.  I had a very good relationship with him before this started - and it was one of the things that enabled him to ask for help in how to get rid of her.   he was 19 - and asked me to help him.

 

so building a strong relationship with kids can help them if/when they start getting into relationships/pairing - or even prevent them from being drawn into a cahrayzy person in the first place.

 

 

 

"vibes" can be wrong.  I very recently had a woman of my acquaintance come up to me *stating* she "had a vibe" I was offended by something she did - and she wanted to clear the air.  I had no clue what she was talking about.

 

yeah, I'm not perfect. I am just saying I have picked up vibes before that were right. I blurted out to mutual friend once, "I don't think so and so likes me." She said, "she doesn't. She thinks you're a know-it-all" but she would never say that to my face.

[heartlikealion]

But nothing Tap wrote in her OP is actually offensive. You can't stop being offensive if you never actually started.

 

And yes, it is the young man's responsibility to communicate with Tap if he is finding (invisible to a reasonable other) things to be offended about.

 

I guess it's really debatable. I mean people have had to apologize for things where there was no ill intent after realizing what a fuss it caused.

 

She could be his future MIL. You really think it's wise for him to point out every thing? lol. My MIL sounds rude when she answers the phone. I have never told her that. I told dh before. He said, "nah, that's just my mom" (but I think she sounds differently when he calls). She says, "Heellllooooo" in a weird way sometimes. No, the word "hello" is not offensive. But you know, context and all that. Jerry Seinfeld and Newman haha.

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by heartlikealion

[almondbutterandjelly]

I don't think there's anything you can do.  I have an ex-relative-by-marriage who was like this.  Everything anyone said offended her in some way.  It messed up my relative pretty good for awhile (they divorced eventually).  Big red flag.  Continue to maintain a good relationship with your dd is all you can do.

[heartlikealion]

She can't spend her life walking on eggshells. 

 

I really don't think the examples she gave are debatable. 

 

Look, I'm someone who gets her knickers in a twist pretty darn easily. If I'm reading the examples and not finding something to be offended about, you can be pretty sure she didn't say anything offensive :)

 

A couple of us have stated that she could have supplied the nurse the info. without bringing the bf or his family into the conversation. I don't think what she said was wrong, but clearly there are ways to make it sound less about him and more about the girl's diet.

 

examplet

Dr: Have you been eating much protein

Mom: My child has been eating at McDonald's a lot. Ordering cheeseburgers.

Child: *embarrassed* Gee, Mom. Did you have to tell him I'm getting fast food?

 

Nothing is WRONG with the conversation. It's just maybe not ideal to one of the people in it. Consider it walking on eggshells if you want. She asked what she can do. We answered. So do nothing. Don't be surprised if you get the same reactions.

 

[heartlikealion]

I thought Tap wanted a glimpse into his possible view of things. Not just a choir of "don't give into this manipulative guy" type posts. So he's putting motives where there aren't any on Tap's side and people say that's wrong. But lots of people are not offering him the same grace.

 

How about we just say they are both having a big misunderstanding and need to clear the air. If Tap wants to be the bigger person she should maybe just say, "hey, I'm very direct. I don't have hidden meaning behind the things I say. If something bothers you, please let me know. I'm not always aware of how things may be perceived" or something to the effect. If saying that means she's walking on eggshells then I guess she can silently feel confused and frustrated. That's not really any healthier for them, really.

[SquirrellyMama]

"I have no desire to be your enemy, so don't treat me like one, ok?"

 

As tactful as a brick through a window, but walking on eggshells is impossible when they won't tell you where they left the eggs.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this. I do not think this will not help in the situation.

 

I have a hard time with direct/blunt people. Something about that personality type puts me on edge, and I do take things differently.

 

I know I do this, and definitely try to think through things later to figure out intent. Unfortunately, this hasn't always been the case.

 

I think you both have some changes that could be made. Listen to your tone, and think through your body language.

 

I've found people who are direct have insane eye contact. It feels like their eyes are burning holes in my head.

 

I do have friends who are in the middle. They are great to have around when there is a direct and sensitive person in the group.

 

Kelly

[Pen]

I just had a long conversation with dd18s boyfriend who says I am very negative when I talk to him.  He feels like I put  him down a lot.  I am a very direct person, I know this about myself..DD has a chronic health issue and he is the center of her world.  I need to figure out how to change his perception of me. Things are just a matter of fact to me, are taken quite personally by him and it has caused a large rift.  I am going to have to be the one who changes when I am around this person, so please help me!!!

 

Example:

 

A nurse and I were talking about my daughter's low iron levels and possibly starting IV iron to restore them. The nurse, DD, he and I were in the conversation.  Nurse asks if we eat meat. "I say yes, we eat beef 2-3x per week, but dd has started eating at her boyfriend's quite a bit and they eat more chicken there"  Nurse says "well chicken has iron too" I say "yes, it does". Then conversation moves on and nothing else is said about it.  To me, it is just a matter of fact dd's iron is low, she has gone from eating red meat 2-3 times per week, to eating it only once every week or two for several months. (What he doesn't know is that dd has always craved red meat when she is low energy, we always assumed it is the iron she needed)  He took it quite personally and that I was criticizing him and his family because they eat more chicken.  I wasn't talking snarky, it was just a chatty tone.

 

 

 

On the first example, the word "but" tends to be a critical sounding word. Sounds like maybe the nurse also thought you were criticizing the chicken rather than beef by her reply?  

 

And your explanation sounds like you do in fact feel, if not critical, at least certainly concerned that your dd is not getting enough iron due to change of eating from beef to chicken when she is with her bf.  So worry and concern could come through as sounding critical.  

 

In the second example it is also possible that worry on your part sounds to him like it is critical.  

[elegantlion]

As I highly sensitive person who is also blunt, it sounds like you might intimidate him. I remember that age feeling like everyone in authority over me, everyone that I wanted to please (like the parents of a boyfriend) was uber critical of me, at least it felt that way. 

 

Personally, I'd give it time, watch your body language and buts (not to appease him, but to try to assess yourself). If you otherwise have a decent relationship, then at some point you could talk with him about this. Most of the truly blunt talking people I know are honest, which as a HSP is great because once you recognize that level of honesty in a person it's easier to get along with them because there is no trying to discern whether their "vibe" is their reality. 

[Rosie_0801]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this. I do not think this will not help in the situation.

 

I have a hard time with direct/blunt people. Something about that personality type puts me on edge, and I do take things differently.

 

I know I do this, and definitely try to think through things later to figure out intent. Unfortunately, this hasn't always been the case.

 

I think you both have some changes that could be made. Listen to your tone, and think through your body language.

 

I've found people who are direct have insane eye contact. It feels like their eyes are burning holes in my head.

 

I do have friends who are in the middle. They are great to have around when there is a direct and sensitive person in the group.

 

Kelly

 

 

There is no appropriate way to voice the concept that you don't wish to be someone's enemy? So it is better to let them think you are?

[SquirrellyMama]

There is no appropriate way to voice the concept that you don't wish to be someone's enemy? So it is better to let them think you are?

I'm sure there is a way, just not that bluntly. It won't help. Especially since we don't know her tone of voice.

 

She needs to think about tone, body language, and adding in some good stuff too. Using the sandwich method is great for people like this. Give me some compliments in your request or criticism, and you'll get a lot further.

 

Kelly

[Rosie_0801]

I'm sure there is a way, just not that bluntly. It won't help. Especially since we don't know her tone of voice.

 

She needs to think about tone, body language, and adding in some good stuff too. Using the sandwich method is great for people like this. Give me some compliments in your request or criticism, and you'll get a lot further.

 

Kelly

 

 

So pile on the compliments, project admiration, make what you think is an innocent comment, compliment some more just in case it wasn't?

 

That's an awful burden to place on someone. And, as others have said, for someone who doesn't naturally communicate that way, it is creating an abuse dynamic. Where does one find all these compliments when talking to someone who treats you like an enemy? People who think you are the enemy don't tend to be generous enough in your direction to provide fuel for it. Even if words of affirmation is someone's love language, there still has to be something to say!

 

For people who don't communicate that way naturally, it can feel incredibly insulting to try. I couldn't treat anyone I had any respect for the way you are saying!

[SquirrellyMama]

So pile on the compliments, project admiration, make what you think is an innocent comment, compliment some more just in case it wasn't?

 

That's an awful burden to place on someone. And, as others have said, for someone who doesn't naturally communicate that way, it is creating an abuse dynamic. Where does one find all these compliments when talking to someone who treats you like an enemy? People who think you are the enemy don't tend to be generous enough in your direction to provide fuel for it. Even if words of affirmation is someone's love language, there still has to be something to say!

 

For people who don't communicate that way naturally, it can feel incredibly insulting to try. I couldn't treat anyone I had any respect for the way you are saying!

And for people who don't naturally communicate bluntly? Both sides can feel insulted.

 

She asked how better to communicate with him. I'm giving her an idea.

 

I find it very hard to be blunt with a blunt person. I have done it with people I know who appreciate that style. Afterwards, I felt awful, like I was insulting. Obviously, that's how they want it, but I still felt like I was mean.

 

Abusive? That seems harsh.

 

Kelly

[Robin M]

I have not seen her say anything about not considering him a "good fit".

perhaps you are seeing things because of your father's new lady friend.

 

No, I've seen this pattern in other people as well so am just more aware of it. I may have worded it wrong. Going for it may be a subconscious thing, but anywho another thought I had was

 

During this conversation did the bf take any responsibility for attitude or did it all fall to you, Tap, to be the one who has to make adjustments. In most situations like these, both parties need to make adjustment in communication. However, I know that wasn't your question. As far as how to talk differently, let your daughter led the way. Ask her how she would have handled it.

[Rosie_0801]

And for people who don't naturally communicate bluntly? Both sides can feel insulted.

 

She asked how better to communicate with him. I'm giving her an idea.

 

I find it very hard to be blunt with a blunt person. I have done it with people I know who appreciate that style. Afterwards, I felt awful, like I was insulting. Obviously, that's how they want it, but I still felt like I was mean.

 

Abusive? That seems harsh.

 

Kelly

 

No, it's not harsh.

 

If one has to manipulate their entire sense of being so as to avoid offending someone who is offended by anything that isn't a gushing compliment, it's an abuse dynamic whether either person intends it or not. Particularly when the offended person does not believe they have any responsibility to assume the best.

 

Please, to confirm, the correct way to speak to someone like yourself is to pile on the compliments, project admiration, make what one thinks is an innocent comment, compliment some more just in case it wasn't? I am trying for the second time to confirm this because it does not come naturally to all of us.

 

I can do it. But I have to go and hide in my room and cry afterwards.

[Seasider]

So pile on the compliments, project admiration, make what you think is an innocent comment, compliment some more just in case it wasn't?

 

That's an awful burden to place on someone. And, as others have said, for someone who doesn't naturally communicate that way, it is creating an abuse dynamic. Where does one find all these compliments when talking to someone who treats you like an enemy? People who think you are the enemy don't tend to be generous enough in your direction to provide fuel for it. Even if words of affirmation is someone's love language, there still has to be something to say!

 

For people who don't communicate that way naturally, it can feel incredibly insulting to try. I couldn't treat anyone I had any respect for the way you are saying!

My dh is not a salesman, but he has lots of company provided salesman's training for dealing with people. Once in a discussion where we were not agreed on a course of action, words started coming out of his mouth that....just weren't his. I let him know that it was better when he spoke as himself and not according to his management training. We had a good talk and good laugh about that and he agreed to save it for the business realm.

 

If someone I knew (and knew their normal tone) started layering in the compliments, that would certainly set my radar buzzing.

 

But, I am one of those folks who says what she means. I have a person in my life who likes to read nonexistent messages between the lines, replying to comments of mine with something like, "ok, so what you mean is <insert something I neither said nor implied>." I've had to flat out say, "I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. If you didn't hear those words, that's not what I said." It is exhausting.

 

Tap, I think it would be good for you to be able to tell the bf, "I say what I mean, you can trust I have no hidden agenda. We will both be more comfortable if you can learn to trust me and take me at face value." Maybe even use Rosie's exact words, just lay it out there that you really have no hidden agenda but that you also aren't going to coddle him. He should see that as a favor because I guarantee his med school profs aren't going to care about mincing words for sensitive students.

[SquirrellyMama]

No, it's not harsh.

 

If one has to manipulate their entire sense of being so as to avoid offending someone who is offended by anything that isn't a gushing compliment, it's an abuse dynamic whether either person intends it or not. Particularly when the offended person does not believe they have any responsibility to assume the best.

 

Please, to confirm, the correct way to speak to someone like yourself is to pile on the compliments, project admiration, make what one thinks is an innocent comment, compliment some more just in case it wasn't? I am trying for the second time to confirm this because it does not come naturally to all of us.

 

I can do it. But I have to go and hide in my room and cry afterwards.

No, you wouldn't have to give me gushing compliments. Sometimes it's not even a compliment, just letting me know you're human also.

 

Here is an example. I taught Sunday school. I had a kid that was really difficult. Acted out a lot in class. I had to talk to his mom about it. Instead of just saying "your kid is doing x, y, z" I sandwiched it in between a compliment "your son is a great kid" (I really did believe he was a great kid. No false compliments), and telling her that my kids weren't perfect either. I wanted her to know that I was human too. I wasn't trying to be perfect.

 

That might not come naturally to you. Being blunt or assuming the right iintent doesn't come naturally to me. But, I realize that I need to work on it. And I am. When I respect someone I try to relate to them in a way that works for them.

 

Kelly

[Catwoman]

I keep thinking about this, and the more I think about it, the more annoyed I get with the boyfriend.

 

Taking offense at the least little thing Tap says or does seems to be a pattern with the boyfriend, so maybe it's time for her dd to step up to the plate and tell him to knock it off with the drama and to quit making unwarranted negative assumptions about her mother.

 

Tap has enough going on in her life. She doesn't need to spend her time and energy measuring every little comment she makes within earshot of the boyfriend for fear that she will upset him.

[StaceyinLA]

I guess I'll be the lone dissenter. I see criticism. I saw it not only in your examples but also in your description of him. Some good comments were followed by a but.

 

He is highly intelligent but....

He plans on going to medical school but....

 

And rewording one of your statements, he likes video games but not...

 

I'll give it to you blunt. The two of you have a mismatch somewhere, maybe personality, iq, interests, or something else. I don't think you need to change because I don't think it's just words that are the problem. I think it's deeper than that and it's not fair to ask either of you to change who you are to appease the other.

I don't see that at all. She's explaining what he is doing and then explaining why it's still not something she can discuss with him. I think that was totally normal in her explanation to the boards about why it's difficult to make small talk.

 

The examples given make it seem like he really has a sensitivity issue, and honestly, I'd be asking for some input from my daughter on how to deal with it. If I had a son-in-law that was that sensitive, he'd have been long gone by now I'm sure. I just don't have time to tiptoe around every time I speak. That meme about being as surprised as anyone else with what comes out of my mouth was likely written about me. ;-p

[Rosie_0801]

No, you wouldn't have to give me gushing compliments. Sometimes it's not even a compliment, just letting me know you're human also.

 

Here is an example. I taught Sunday school. I had a kid that was really difficult. Acted out a lot in class. I had to talk to his mom about it. Instead of just saying "your kid is doing x, y, z" I sandwiched it in between a compliment "your son is a great kid" (I really did believe he was a great kid. No false compliments), and telling her that my kids weren't perfect either. I wanted her to know that I was human too. I wasn't trying to be perfect.

 

That might not come naturally to you. Being blunt or assuming the right iintent doesn't come naturally to me. But, I realize that I need to work on it. And I am. When I respect someone I try to relate to them in a way that works for them.

 

Kelly

 

Thank you for that example.

 

Now for the chicken example, obviously stating the fact that they ate chicken was problematic even when Tap agreed that chicken contained iron. What sort of humanising comment should have been included to have made her utterance acceptable? Should Tap have said boyfriend's mother is a fantastic cook? Should she have said she also likes chicken? Should she have made some sort of self deprecating remark about how she ought to eat more chicken herself?

 

 

I'm sure you can appreciate that it is very hard to communicate with people who feel respected when, from your perspective, you are treating them poorly.

[SereneHome]

I don't know the back story, I didn't read the entire thread, but it's not you, it's him, ESPECIALLY if he thinks you are only this way with him.

 

I have found that people like that are never satisfied.  It's not about being sensitive at all.  None of us can go through life expecting everyone else around us to change to suit our needs.  That's neither smart nor realistic. 

 

It's very nice that you want to change, but I am willing to bet you could be speaking to him like Mother Teresa and G-d himself and he will still find something to get offended about. 

 

Not only that - in a parent /child, adult /child relationship I think it is very much upon the young person to be more flexible.  It's just a respect thing.  At least where I am from and how I was raised.  He is coming into YOUR house and tries to tell you how you should be speaking??  Yeah....I don't think so

 

 

[Mergath]

I was a little like that at his age, though I was also shy so I would never have come out and told you I was offended. After eighteen years of emotional and physical abuse from an unhinged father, trying to discern every single emotional cue in someone's voice and being hypersensitive to what they weren't saying was a defense mechanism I'd developed to keep myself safe. It's pretty common in abused children.

 

I have no idea if that's what's going on his situation, and I'm sure it's annoying regardless, but try to be patient if you think there's a chance he might have dealt with some abuse. If you tend to be a more blunt person, that bluntness might set off danger signals in his brain and he's doing his best to deal with it.

[Mergath]

I don't know the back story, I didn't read the entire thread, but it's not you, it's him, ESPECIALLY if he thinks you are only this way with him.

 

I have found that people like that are never satisfied.  It's not about being sensitive at all.  None of us can go through life expecting everyone else around us to change to suit our needs.  That's neither smart nor realistic. 

 

It's very nice that you want to change, but I am willing to bet you could be speaking to him like Mother Teresa and G-d himself and he will still find something to get offended about. 

 

Not only that - in a parent /child, adult /child relationship I think it is very much upon the young person to be more flexible.  It's just a respect thing.  At least where I am from and how I was raised.  He is coming into YOUR house and tries to tell you how you should be speaking??  Yeah....I don't think so

 

I don't know how you could possibly know that from just the information in this thread.

[SquirrellyMama]

Thank you for that example.

 

Now for the chicken example, obviously stating the fact that they ate chicken was problematic even when Tap agreed that chicken contained iron. What sort of humanising comment should have been included to have made her utterance acceptable? Should Tap have said boyfriend's mother is a fantastic cook? Should she have said she also likes chicken? Should she have made some sort of self deprecating remark about how she ought to eat more chicken herself?

Honestly, no clue :)

 

But, let me go off of what you suggested up thread, and what other people have suggested.

 

Have a sit down with him, but start out with, "Boyfriend, I like you. I know we have differing communicating styles, and that's ok. I'm blunt and direct, and you don't have to read between the lines with me. I really want you to trust me." Etc, etc...

 

Sorry, I'm not super good at wording. Although I am super wordy :)

 

Also, if she doesn't like him then don't give that compliment. I just like things softened a bit.

 

Like others have said, I'd ask the daughter what she thinks.

 

I am still very intimidated by blunt personalities, but I'm getting better with thinking over intent.

 

Kelly

[Rosie_0801]

I am still very intimidated by blunt personalities, but I'm getting better with thinking over intent.

 

Kelly

 

I can intimidate people by sitting silently in a corner with a poker face. That's a special skill.  :glare:

[OneStepAtATime]

I do think this young man is over sensitive and overreacted to your responses.  I would not have found anything offensive in what you said.  However, honestly I could see how the chicken remark could easily be interpreted as you feeling his family doesn't care about your daughter enough to provide her with the foods she needs or that maybe his family makes bad food choices.  It did sound more like "Well, when she was eating at home more she was getting the right kind of food but now she eats at her boyfriend's more and they serve chicken instead of red meat so that is probably one reason why she is so low on iron now."   Even though you were not intending it to come across that way, I could see it sounding like that.

 

Tap, deep down inside, really how much do you genuinely like this young man?  How do you honestly feel about how he was raised and how he is around your daughter and how he behaves around you, etc? 

 

I usually get along well with people in general and like most people I meet.  In some instances, in reality, deep down inside, when I am being bluntly honest with myself, I am not comfortable with them and if I am being truly honest with myself may not actually like them even if we are both making an effort to get along.  Personalities are just not that compatible at a very basic level.  Some people are sensitive enough to pick up on that so even if my words don't sound offensive to me, they read the subtext that I am not always consciously aware of.  Is it possible that while you want to get along with this young man and are making a concerted effort to do so, deep down inside you don't actually LIKE this young man?  I don't mean to imply that you hate him or think he is a bad person or a bad fit for your daughter.  I mean do you like him?

 

I ask because if, deep down inside, you don't actually like him, it may be hard to mask that.  Regardless of the words you choose, and what you THINK you are conveying, the subtext that you don't actually like him may still be there for him to hear.

 

Even if you do actually like him, there seems to be a mismatch in personalities.  Does he get along with other members of your family?  How do they feel about him?  Since he is obviously important to your daughter, I guess your best option is to try hard NOT to use words that compare your two families and to talk with your daughter about your desire to improve the relationship.  See if she has suggestions.  If she knows you are trying (regardless of whether you actually like him or not) she may have some ideas on how to help.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[Tanaqui]

Here is an example. I taught Sunday school. I had a kid that was really difficult. Acted out a lot in class. I had to talk to his mom about it. Instead of just saying "your kid is doing x, y, z" I sandwiched it in between a compliment "your son is a great kid" (I really did believe he was a great kid. No false compliments), and telling her that my kids weren't perfect either. I wanted her to know that I was human too. I wasn't trying to be perfect.

 

I endured a lot of this as a kid from well-meaning teachers and guidance counselors. The end result is that I can't hear the words "You're smart" without feeling faintly nauseous. (Other compliments aren't that bad, though I still feel uncomfortably in the spotlight.)

 

My kid really liked Supernanny for a while. Jo Frost did that same technique midway through each episode, and as soon as she started in on "You did great but" I wanted to run for the door.

 

I have a friend who is a therapist who calls this sort of thing a "shit sandwich". She says my reaction is not that atypical - when this is overused, the end result is somebody who looks at compliments like another way to sneak attack and criticize.

 

When you have somebody who already sees criticism very easily, I'd be very cautious about finding ways to modify how you give criticism.

 

Not only that - in a parent /child, adult /child relationship I think it is very much upon the young person to be more flexible. It's just a respect thing. At least where I am from and how I was raised. He is coming into YOUR house and tries to tell you how you should be speaking?? Yeah....I don't think so

 

Respect goes both ways, from the way I was raised. If you're not respectful to other people, even as a guest in your home, then you can't expect them to be respectful towards you.

 

Now for the chicken example, obviously stating the fact that they ate chicken was problematic even when Tap agreed that chicken contained iron. What sort of humanising comment should have been included to have made her utterance acceptable? Should Tap have said boyfriend's mother is a fantastic cook? Should she have said she also likes chicken? Should she have made some sort of self deprecating remark about how she ought to eat more chicken herself?

 

She could've just said "Yes, she eats beef and chicken". I'll point out that the nurse replied with "Well, chicken has iron too" - which suggests to me that she may also have heard a potential criticism in those words and was trying to deflect it. (That doesn't mean there WAS an explicit criticism in the words or the tone, just that it's not completely ridiculous to think that some people might phrase a criticism in that way.)

 

None of us has the backstory to know why the boyfriend acts like this, but I can tell you that if a friend of mine came to me and said that their MIL was really passive-aggressive, and gave these example sentences, I wouldn't roll my eyes. Even if I didn't see it, I'd assume there was some context that made my friend get her hackles up, or that her own personal issues have some valid basis even if she's misreading that person.

 

As for walking on eggshells... *shrug* Tap said that he gets like this when an implicit comparison is made involving his family. So it's not every conversation, it's just one subject. I mean... I have a kid right now who comes to our house a lot, best friends with my kid, and boy, I don't like how her mom is raising her. So I don't say anything about her mom other than "She knows you're here?" or "I think you should go home now". There is absolutely no way I could mention anything about her family or home life without sounding critical, so I just don't do it. If I can manage it with an 11 year old, and it's really only the one topic, I'm sure Tap can manage it with him. Even if he is the most ridiculously oversensitive person on the planet, this can be managed. (That goes for ONE topic. If it turns out it's a bajillion topics or they change from day to day, then yeah, I'm with you guys on the eggshells thing.)

Edited July 31, 2017 by Tanaqui

[Guest]

"Tap, when you said that dd eats chicken at my house, I felt hurt and criticised."

Hahahaha

 

Ok that's funny. It's also how you can see how thoroughly ridiculous the whole thing is. How could you let on chicken is consumed at my place of residence!? That's private family business!!

 

See there's a difference between "blunt people" and people who are just saying true things. I tend to think of people who pride themselves on being blunt as lacking tact and literally just saying anything that springs to mind, bonus if it gets a rise out of someone.

 

"She eats chicken at his house" not only sounds like a sentence you'd learn in a foreign language class, it's also just a plain regular fact.

 

Don't start dressing up what you say to make him stop reading between non-existent lines. Then you're DOING the thing he's saying you do, that you do not currently do.

[Pen]

Tap, Aside from the question of whether you like the bf, if your dd and he were to marry so that he were the main person other than your dd herself to be responsible for her care, communication with medical personnel, etc., do you trust him for such a role? Do you feel confident in his abilities?

[TechWife]

I tend to think of people who pride themselves on being blunt as lacking tact and literally just saying anything that springs to mind, bonus if it gets a rise out of someone.

 

 

I recognize that I am a straightforward communicator. I do not see myself as generally blunt, although I am occasionally. I see bluntness as having an element of rudeness to it, while being a straightforward communicator is not rude. This is simply who I am as a person. I am straightforward, compassionate, empathetic and considerate. I am intentional and loving about the way I communicate. It is possible to be all of these things. I simply don't play verbal games. I don't have it in me - I don't often recognize it when others are doing it and I don't do it myself. Honest, considerate people don't play games with others. I was raised to step on eggshells around some close relatives. For me, because I don't recognize the verbal games, that meant silence. The problem with that approach is that it makes the actions, beliefs and responses of others my responsibility. Nothing is further from the truth. I am who I am - if someone I care about has an issue - let's sit down and try to work it out, but no one should expect me to change because they misunderstood me. There is nothing to misunderstand. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. If I am wrong about something, I am definitely open to learning and changing my opinions and therefore my actions that flow from those opinions (and have done this way too many times to remember at this point in my life), but don't ask me to ignore and undo the years I spent learning to have healthy relationships and to communicate effectively. 

 

ETA: Tap stated in her first post "I asked him to tell me when I say something offensive to him, but he says he won't do that." This is an example of a verbal game. If I can recognize it, I truly believe it is there. To deny a reasonable request that would improve communication and result in fewer "offenses" is manipulation in my book. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by TechWife

[Pen]

"Tap, when you said that dd eats chicken at my house, I felt hurt and criticised."

Hahahaha

 

Ok that's funny. It's also how you can see how thoroughly ridiculous the whole thing is. How could you let on chicken is consumed at my place of residence!? That's private family business!!

 

See there's a difference between "blunt people" and people who are just saying true things. I tend to think of people who pride themselves on being blunt as lacking tact and literally just saying anything that springs to mind, bonus if it gets a rise out of someone.

 

"She eats chicken at his house" not only sounds like a sentence you'd learn in a foreign language class, it's also just a plain regular fact.

 

Don't start dressing up what you say to make him stop reading between non-existent lines. Then you're DOING the thing he's saying you do, that you do not currently do.

 

 

Maybe the bf could be asked to clarify what bothered him.

 

 I did not understand the problem to be the statement that chicken is eaten at his house, but rather the comparison between that she eats high iron red meat beef at Tap's -- but only a less good for her possibly lower iron  non red meat  at his.

 

"Tap, I felt that what you said indicated that you are feeling that what we eat at my house is causing or adding to sweetie's low iron problem, I felt hurt and criticised."

 

And then Tap can either say, no, I did not mean that at all. I think chicken is the best thing for dd, every bit as good for her as beef.  Or can say, I didn't mean it in a critical way, but I was very worried that she needed more red meat since she has tended to crave that."

 

And then maybe bf can say something like, "Gosh, I didn't know. I wish someone, either you or sweetie, had said something about that months ago!"

 

 

It seems to me that communication is lacking. And as important as bf's feelings are, equally important may be that communication is not happening about what dd needs (or might need) for her health situation.

[heartlikealion]

I thought her comment about chicken implied that chicken has less iron. So, having her say, "yes, it does" when the nurse stated that chicken had iron didn't really change the fact that maybe she was implying it is inferior to beef as a source of iron. Lol So maybe the boyfriend heard, "well she was getting adequate iron but now she's eating less beef and more chicken, due to spending time at his parents' place."

 

This is what I think happened internally. And I have not googled to see what contains more iron. Just a thought.

 

Sometimes stating facts makes people defensive. "He's gay." *awkward pause* "Not that there's anything wrong with that." I mean I don't know if people still do that but I'm thinking back to Seinfeld again.

[TechWife]

nm - tmi!  

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by TechWife

[Lady Florida.]

Maybe the bf could be asked to clarify what bothered him.

 

 

 

 

Tap said she asked him to tell her when she says something that bothers him and he refused. From what I gather from her posts, while she doesn't want to walk on eggshells she does want to learn if she can phrase things differently when talking to him. It sounds like he's not willing to meet her halfway, which to me is kind of immature. Of course at his age he's probably not as mature as he thinks he is. Ask me how I know, or look at ds' age in my sig. :)

 

 

s anything wrong with that." I mean I don't know if people still do that but I'm thinking back to Seinfeld again.

 

Nothing wrong with using a bit of humor to help make your point.  Besides, almost anything can be a Seinfeld reference; that's how much that show infiltrated popular culture.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Lady Florida.

[heartlikealion]

I can appreciate the sentiment that Tap has a lot going on, she's doing her best, doesn't want more to deal with. I was just trying to offer possible POVs since she asked questions. Everyone keeps saying, "she shouldn't have to do x, y, z. She has enough to deal with" but are we privy to whatever the boy is dealing with? Similarly he might be really depressed right now, worrying about his girlfriend and for all we know he's viewing Tap as future MIL whom he doesn't want to ruffle the feathers of by pointing out each indiscretion he sees. They do need to communicate better. It would be ideal if each could work on this. Honestly it sounds like one of those things where his girlfriend might have to relay the information but at the same time no one wants to make her middle man probably. Dh will not directly tell people, "hey I think you sound rude when you refer to me as 'big'" but he'll tell me if someone said something like that. To be honest, if he were to call people out on it, they might just mentally categorize him as, "too sensitive." Who wants that?

[HS Mom in NC]

I don't think there's anything you can do.  I have an ex-relative-by-marriage who was like this.  Everything anyone said offended her in some way.  It messed up my relative pretty good for awhile (they divorced eventually).  Big red flag.  Continue to maintain a good relationship with your dd is all you can do.

 

Are we related? 

 

[Pen]

I thought her comment about chicken implied that chicken has less iron. So, having her say, "yes, it does" when the nurse stated that chicken had iron didn't really change the fact that maybe she was implying it is inferior to beef as a source of iron. Lol So maybe the boyfriend heard, "well she was getting adequate iron but now she's eating less beef and more chicken, due to spending time at his parents' place."

 

This is what I think happened internally. And I have not googled to see what contains more iron. Just a thought.

 

Sometimes stating facts makes people defensive. "He's gay." *awkward pause* "Not that there's anything wrong with that." I mean I don't know if people still do that but I'm thinking back to Seinfeld again.

 

I guess I am under the impression, like many people, that red meat for those who eat it does have a particularly high amount of fairly easily absorbed iron. Less maybe than fortified breakfast cereal or spinach or molasses or some other options, but still it somehow associated for what to eat when having low iron.

 

So I also understood that that was basically what Tap meant--and even if it was not, think that that would be an easy thing to have understood or misunderstood without much reading between the lines.  I'm presuming also from what Tap wrote that the dd tended to crave red meat when low in iron...

 

 

Tap said she asked him to tell her when she says something that bothers him and he refused. From what I gather from her posts, while she doesn't want to walk on eggshells she does want to learn if she can phrase things differently when talking to him. It sounds like he's not willing to meet her halfway, which to me is kind of immature. Of course at his age he's probably not as mature as he thinks he is. Ask me how I know, or look at ds' age in my sig. :)

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with using a bit of humor to help make your point.  Besides, almost anything can be a Seinfeld reference; that's how much that show infiltrated popular culture.

 

I thought he already did talk with her about the beef / chicken discussion at hospital.  And that what he refused to do was to tell her each and every time in future he finds something bothersome.  If they did not talk about the beef / chicken discussion at hospital how is that even a known situation?  Did Tap just guess?  Maybe if she went back and said, hey, I don't quite get what about what I said bothered you, was it ______ or was it ______, he'd refuse to talk further. But maybe he would. 

 

If this whole thing is just made up speculation about what was said that he reacted negatively to there's not much point in discussing it.

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

I thought he already did talk with her about the beef / chicken discussion at hospital.  And that what he refused to do was to tell her each and every time in future he finds something bothersome.  If they did not talk about the beef / chicken discussion at hospital how is that even a known situation?  Did Tap just guess?  Maybe if she went back and said, hey, I don't quite get what about what I said bothered you, was it ______ or was it ______, he'd refuse to talk further. But maybe he would. 

 

If this whole thing is just made up speculation about what was said that he reacted negatively to there's not much point in discussing it.

 

Yes, they did already talk about the red meat/chicken issue after if was over and I think (without looking back) they also talked about the curfew comments. She can't change what was said or how he felt about it. She can only apologize, which she did, and try to do better in the future. Since she says this is her way of talking she doesn't realize if/when she's offending him. There's where she asked for his help from now on and he refused. Even if he doesn't tell her every single time (which I agree is probably too much to ask), he could at least give her some feedback when he's feeling defensive over something she said. But from the way I read it, he won't. At all. Ever. If he won't meet her halfway then she really will feel like she has to walk on eggshells. If he tells her often enough when she says something in a way that bothers him she might be able to see a pattern in how she's wording things. As it stands now she either has to practically stop talking to him or take a chance on offending him every time she opens her mouth.

[Guinevere]

I don't like the compliment sandwich thing either.  If we are going to talk about conflict, let's talk about conflict.  If you are going to compliment me, compliment me.  I really don't like compliments used to manipulate me to relax so I will listen to criticism.  I don't think anyone has to change how they are wording things, or try to be sweet by gently saying everything they say.  I just think they need to decide if what they are saying is their business.  I'm not saying change how you talk.  I'm saying you should talk less.

 

I don't think the boyfriend is wrong to refuse to list every offense.  I have a person in my life who wants me to do that, but she is missing the point.  The point is that I want her to mind her own business.  I went down that road, and it turned into my fault, and how she was misunderstood every single time.  Finally, I realized that she was accusing me of being sensitive and difficult because she was sensitive and difficult, and I wouldn't play the game.  

 

So, what can you talk about?  Talk about the things that interest you, look for common ground, just like you would do with any friend.  Try to develop a relationship with him that doesn't involve your dd, and try to view him as another adult peer.  Would you talk to the husband of another friend the way you talk to him?  

 

Just some stuff to think about.

[marbel]

Tap, Aside from the question of whether you like the bf, if your dd and he were to marry so that he were the main person other than your dd herself to be responsible for her care, communication with medical personnel, etc., do you trust him for such a role? Do you feel confident in his abilities?

 

This is what I've been wondering.  I figure he must be a very serious boyfriend, else why would he be sitting in on a medical appointment?   

 

FWIW, I think it was implied that chicken is not as good as beef.  The discussion about curfews before the young adults took a nap (?) seemed odd, but I'm having a hard time thinking of an adult kid having a bf/gf over and napping, and needing someone to wake them up before the guest's curfew (if the guest had one).  

Edited July 31, 2017 by marbel

[solascriptura]

I can intimidate people by sitting silently in a corner with a poker face. That's a special skill. :glare:

Haha. Me too! I have the b*tch face. But truly, I'm actually a very nice and sincere person.

Edited July 31, 2017 by solascriptura