Help make this unpleasent

[amy g.]

I'm very happy to hear that Dh is on board with you and it is only the in laws who are giving you grief.

 

That makes your situation much easier.

 

Morally, I really think that any combination of solutions would be fine and well within your rights.

 

You are very generous to offer to include them in part of the trip.

 

I understand that their behavior and your inlaws' attitude about family and parenting are drastically different from your own. I think it would be much easier on your Dh as he makes this hard transition of thinking and parenting if you could stop villainizing the other family members for their different attitudes and family culture.

 

Also, very gently, when my oldest was the age of your son, I believed that when she and her siblings turned 18 she would be on her own to figure out school or college or whatever she wanted to do. I was very against paying for our children as adults. Dh and I both put ourselves through school. We had no respect for the rich kids who had parents paying for everything. We didn't want lazy, entitled kids like that!

 

But our kids are not even slightly inclined to be lazy. I'm sure your son will behave very differently than your step kids when he becomes an adult.

 

You might not want to have already established broad, sweeping moral guidelines.

 

Imagine that you have much more disposable income when your son is grown. He has an opportunity to work on a medical research project but he can't accept unless he gets some help with his housing costs. You are not going to want to be held to the "rule" that all 20 somethings need to be on their own and financially independent.

 

This does not mean that you have to support your stepchildren forever.

 

I would just change how you view the situation and the language that you use to describe it. I would address each decision with the question "What action will bring this adult child closer to our goals?"

 

If you can get the discussion onto morally neutral ground, you can push the adult stepchildren into learning to do more for themselves based on the fact that they need that from you for future success.

 

While you still leave the door open to do more for your own child financially if that extra help will move him closer to his own future success.

 

As far as the vacation, it looks like you have it all figured out. You can just state it as your preference. "What would make me happy is to have this time alone with you and Ds and then fly the older kids out for a couple of days."

 

Your preference is enough reason.

 

There is no reason to include what is wrong with their behavior and how much your son has given up. That kind of talk just creates more division within the family.

 

Good luck, and I hope you have an amazing time on your vacation.

Edited July 15, 2017 by amy g.

[Seasider]

I actually was going to write some more about them having the house to themselves. Based on what you've written before, they sound kind of like teens, in a bad way (by that I mean that not all teens are like that). So, I was guessing that the "having the house to themselves" thing might be quite appealing to them... but that you should count on your house being trashed by the time you get back. I even considered suggesting that you take pictures of the house before you leave, just so you have proof (for yourself, your husband, the in-laws, whomever) that *they* trashed your house while you were gone, and it wasn't like that when you left. Which might make it easier (psychologically) to kick them out... like, can't live with people who don't respect your property at all.

 

Of course, I don't know if they'd trash your place... maybe they won't (other than some dirty dishes in the sink or w/e). But, the thought definitely crossed my mind.

 

That said, unless there are living things in your house that would die if not checked on (i.e. plants you really care about that need to be watered on a regular basis, or any animals), I would not have anybody check on the house. I don't think treating the adultren like kids is a good for them, and the obvious (and deserved) mistrust isn't helping them - people tend to live up and down to expectations. I'd try my best to act like they're responsible mature grown-ups, and leave them. Hopefully, they'll live up to the challenge. If not, and they completely trash your place, kick them out (I know, easier said than done).

 

Aside from the distrust that having someone else check on the place conveys, I'm not sure it'd really do any good. Unless you were to have someone else check every day or something, which is really way too often.

 

FWIW, I'd make sure your home owners insurance is up-to-date (good to do anyway).

+1

[Χά�ων]

I am not against them living with us. But I expect household help, full time employment or full time school.

 

I am not saying all 20 somethings should be in the rat race vs medical research, peace corp, etc. I feel all 20 somethings should be contributing to society. Playing mine craft all day is not contributing.

 

I know in 20 years there will be a lot of resentment. My son is a very driven child and looking at a career where the starting pay is 20% more than our very confortable middle/upper middle class combined income, while the steps view fast food jobs that pay a buck over minimum wage as a good job. My son has talked about college since he was 4. He is already saving for it. He is working on his writing to apply for scholarships to camps and programs that align with his field. The steps talk big and then refuse to do anything to get there.

 

When he is making over 6 figures and they are living in poverty, I am sure it will be my fault for favoring DS. The steps and DS have very different mindsets about life. The steps will need a very harsh wake up call to realize that fast food is not going to get them the same lifestyle as a masters degree and working in an indemand field.

 

The house we bought for the steps is in a location that makes access to community college not just easy, but such that not noticing takes effort. It is not even possible they can claim it was out of sight out of mind. The steps really areout of touch with reality and I firmly believe they need to experience it now, before they get so far into life that they are trapped in a poverty cycle.

[QueenCat]

There is NOTHING wrong with you and your dh taking your one ds on a trip. Nothing. It's fine to take the olders if you want & can afford to but there is NO obligation, morally or financially. Go and have fun with your dh and youngest ds.

[luuknam]

I can ony say that intentional or not, the first time DH knew they put away the dishes so horribly wrong and I had a fit the behavior stopped.

 

Anyone but the inlaws can conclude that by the mid 20s if they have not figured out that spoons go in the spoon drawer and so on, and have been tested and it shown that yes, they aree capable, then it was a jerk move by them.

 

 

I wasn't saying it wasn't intentional - I just didn't think a photo could prove whether it was. Though I guess if you do have one of those utensil divider things (we don't), it would be kind of obvious that spoons go with spoons.

[KungFuPanda]

Hey Zapow (OP, I feel you should know that this is how I say your screen name in my head),

 

Have you ever thought of doing a train trip with your DS? You'd likely have to plan different stops, but it's a way to get in a multi-stop adventure without driving or taking a bus.

[maize]

Hey Zapow (OP, I feel you should know that this is how I say your screen name in my head),

 

 

Zapow! I love this!

 

For those who don't read Greek, the name is Charon (like the boat man of the afterlife...)

 

But I think I'm going to start reading it as Zapow. Sounds like a superhero.

[Seasider]

Zapow! I love this!

 

For those who don't read Greek, the name is Charon (like the boat man of the afterlife...)

 

But I think I'm going to start reading it as Zapow. Sounds like a superhero.

In my mind I call her Karen. Have no idea if that's what was intended, but that's what I got!

[Wheres Toto]

We are planning a 3 week long road trip over the winter to the southeast United States including in South Florida and the Florida Keys. I'm trying to presented in such a way that is seems less as than cool than it will be. I need help. How does one make leaving the cold midwest in the middle of winter to go on a fully paid trip that includes, Key West, Universal Studios, Everglades, KSC, and a resort in a historic district in either GA or SC, seem unpleasent?

 

We are not made of money. I keep getting pressure, both internal (trying to change the internal dialouge) and external to include mid 20 somethings with no real job on our dime. Including them makes our costs more than double due to vehicle and lodging complications. It means less vacation for us.

 

The "fair" solution presented is to exclude all kids, even the minor children. I feel this is BS. But then what I expect is that by mid20's they hage their own life.

 

 

Also if I am not wrong that the mid 20 somethings can figure their vacation out or that it is not wrong to exclude more than legal adults who should have established their own household, while still including the minors, that would be great to know. Ditto if I am wrong and that family vacations are every child , and potential partners and dependents (they do not have any children, but are wll into the age range to be married for 5+ years and to have their own children) no matter their age, that would be fine.

 

I feel I cannot win. DS and I can go without a problem. DH and I can go without a problem. But if DH and I take only the children who are legally minors...

 

I didn't read any replies yet.

 

My oldest is 11 and 13 years older than her younger siblings.  Once she was in college, we often did not include her in vacations.   Part of it was logistics and timing, where it might not be convenient for her to miss classes and/or work.  Part of it was she's an adult and is living her own life.  If we had her come along on a vacation these days, unless it was for some special occasion, we'd have her contribute for her expenses - her own room at least.

 

She went on a two week tour of Europe earlier this year with friends, her and I do take long weekend trips of our own where I  "treat" (we're hoping to go to Salem around Halloween), we took her to Mardi Gras without the younger guys when she was in high school.    She also went on many vacations before her siblings were ever born.  So, I figure it probably all works out fairly even in the end.

[Anne in CA]

No disagreement between DH and I. It is more the external expectations that I treat the mid20s both like fully independent adults while I drive them everywhere, do all the house work, pay their bills, and never make any demands of them.

 

Things are changing, and DH is on board, but he has only experienced this toxic dynamic and is struggling much more than I am since I came from a saner family in this area. I now make then pay their own medical bills and I make sure that we never give them rides to the store. They either walk or they take DS and pay for him to be their public transportation guide.

Are they not able to manage public transportation in their mid twenties????? 

 

Seriously, you can't leave them alone for three weeks is that is the level of responsibility they need others to take for them. That is extremely worrisome. I've known plenty of low IQ people who figure out public transportation very quickly. That is a new level of dysfunction I had not understood. 

[FaithManor]

I might frame it as a trip to "visit colleges" and tour some campuses that are in the area without mentioning the theme parks and other attractions. Certainly my parents took me and each of my brothers on individual college tour trips and that never bothered any of us.

I have not read all the responses yet, but I really liked this idea.

 

This is what I would do. Do not have a family vacation. Instead set up a college visit tour with stops in between institutions.

 

I did this with eldest and middle boy. We did three colleges each one about three to four hours apart, and then stopped to see interesting sites in the area. Since those unmotivated twenty somethings are not planning college futures, there would be no reason for them to tag along. They wouldn't be interested in doing so. Then you and your son can just keep the other fun parts of the trip on the down low.

 

If your dh wants to entertain his adult kids, he can figure that out himself at home. At some point you have to simply move forward with what is best for your ds since the others do not want to act like decent family members.

[Bluegoat]

This is what I want. I want to take the olders to Universal, I know they will love it and I can see us all having a great time.

 

I do not want them for the entire 3 week trip. I have many reasons, but first of all, in your mid 20's, even with one employer, you have not worked enoigh to earn 3 weeks vacation time. Being rewarded with something that people work full time for years at one employer is just wrong IMHO. It is NOT something people who barely work get.

 

Ha!  People generally start with three weeks here - that's basic.

[Χά�ων]

Are they not able to manage public transportation in their mid twenties?????

 

Seriously, you can't leave them alone for three weeks is that is the level of responsibility they need others to take for them. That is extremely worrisome. I've known plenty of low IQ people who figure out public transportation very quickly. That is a new level of dysfunction I had not understood.

Yes, I agree. I worked in the disability advocacy field and with young adults who have IQs that put them on the line of never being fully independent, and yet they are more independent than the step adultren.

 

What is even more worrisome about not being able to figure out the public transit is that the bus to the grocery store stops in front of a house four doors from ours and has a major stop in front of the grocery store. No transfers. Not even turning onto a different street. How does one work with that?

Edited July 15, 2017 by Χά�ων

[Χά�ων]

Ha! People generally start with three weeks here - that's basic.

Where are you again?

 

They do not have the education or experience to hold a job beyond entry level low pay high turn over fields (fast food, retail, etc). Typically those fields allow one week a year to start and only after a year.

[QueenCat]

Ha!  People generally start with three weeks here - that's basic.

 

Basic for your area? Two weeks seems the norm for most I know, for early career jobs. If they include sick time with vacation time and call it PTO, it might be a little higher.

[QueenCat]

I really don't get why parents shouldn't be able to travel with the kids still at home. To me, that's just normal.

[fdrinca]

I may do this. When I plan I keep a cost per person on my spreadsheet, I can easily print it out.

 

I should add that I am not against them coming. I think it would be fun to go to Universal Studios with them. I would pay for admission and a bus ticket there.

 

But I am not planning to be at Universal for 3 weeks and frankly, if they tag along for 3 weeks I know I will be grouchy and not enjoy myself as much. And I know it will put a significant number of things I want to do out of reach finacially. I will resent them for this. Especially since they live with us rent free and do NOT pull their weight. DS does 10x more. Hell, he has started his second business this year. And they still have yet to figure out what a 40 hour work week actually is.

When I was in college and graduate school, my father's job changed and suddenly the family was able to go on vacations. While I 100% understood why my family was taking vacations/doing things very differently from how they had while I was at home, I still had a sense of being left out/not fair. I think to soften the blow, or make it more equal, or some other motivation, my mother would occasionally mail me gift cards or other financial gifts. I appreciated the gifts then, and as a parent I see how they fall squarely into the "fair does not mean equal" camp.

 

But your situation sounds imbalanced from the start, so maybe that isn't a helpful option for you.

 

I'd say that they are welcome to come with you to Universal. Pay for the hotel, admissions, whatever for the two or three days you are there. They'd be responsible for getting to and from Universal themselves. Should fit with the financial, interest, and time-off-from-work restraints. 

 

To make it unpleasant? 

It's a trip to places they don't want to visit

They can't afford to do it they way they'd like (sodas, etc)

And they'd probably lose their jobs in the process. 

[QueenCat]

We have included college kids and even post on trips when it worked but never felt guilty (nor did they act indignant) when it didn't work to do so. Usually that was due to their schedules..... but again, you decide what YOU want to do and then do it!

[Bluegoat]

Where are you again?

 

They do not have the education or experience to hold a job beyond entry level low pay high turn over fields (fast food, retail, etc). Typically those fields allow one week a year to start and only after a year.

 

 

Basic for your area? Two weeks seems the norm for most I know, for early career jobs. If they include sick time with vacation time and call it PTO, it might be a little higher.

 

Yes, for my province, for a very low end job, 2 weeks is normal paid vacation for FT work.  You go up to three weeks after 8 years.  And if the employee doesn't take the vacation they are supposed to be paid for that.  That's all by law.

 

A more middle of the road type of job typically seems to have three weeks, though.  PLus possibly some personal days.

[QueenCat]

Yes, for my province, for a very low end job, 2 weeks is normal paid vacation for FT work.  You go up to three weeks after 8 years.  And if the employee doesn't take the vacation they are supposed to be paid for that.  That's all by law.

 

A more middle of the road type of job typically seems to have three weeks, though.  PLus possibly some personal days.

 

In my experience, personal days ARE vacation days. Sometimes sick days are separate but sometimes they are instead part of the total package of days off, not including holidays. So, for example, dh gets 23 days of PTO (he's been in his field for over 25 years) BUT that PTO is for everything (vacation, sick, personal) that is not a holiday that everyone at his company gets off. What he doesn't use in one year is rolled over to the next year. Only paid for unused days up to a certain amount when you leave the company.

[Bluegoat]

In my experience, personal days ARE vacation days. Sometimes sick days are separate but sometimes they are instead part of the total package of days off, not including holidays. So, for example, dh gets 23 days of PTO (he's been in his field for over 25 years) BUT that PTO is for everything (vacation, sick, personal) that is not a holiday that everyone at his company gets off. What he doesn't use in one year is rolled over to the next year. Only paid for unused days up to a certain amount when you leave the company.

 

Two weeks vacation are law here, and sick days are separately mandated. 

 

PTO days aren't usually rolled into vacation - then it would just be vacation - if they are offered, they are separate.

 

My dh's job - also about 25 years -  has vacation (5 weeks) sick days (a week maybe?) I think a few personal days, and four or five family days.  You aren't supposed to mix them up, so if you don't use the family days, or sick days, for example, you lose them. 

[katilac]

Why do you have to convince the in-laws of anything? You and dh are independent adults with lives that you can run yourselves. 

 

I know some people can be very persistent with complaining and blaming - oh, how I know! But I eventually realized that I don't have to listen just because they're talking. I will literally walk away or hang up the phone on that type of person. Yes, sometimes that means leaving a family event. Oh, well.  

[luuknam]

What is even more worrisome about not being able to figure out the public transit is that the bus to the grocery store stops in front of a house four doors from ours and has a major stop in front of the grocery store. No transfers. Not even turning onto a different street. How does one work with that?

 

 

Okay, this is just weird. I mean, I'd get it if they were to talk your kid into 'helping' them navigate that for free, but their willingness to pay your son for that? Either they're willing to spend money to 'prove' that they're really impaired, or they really have some significant difficulties.

 

You said they deny any kind of depression. What about an anxiety disorder of some sort? 

 

I would stop letting them use your kid as their guide and see what happens (you can pay your kid so your kid doesn't complain about losing his 'job'). 

[Χά�ων]

Okay, this is just weird. I mean, I'd get it if they were to talk your kid into 'helping' them navigate that for free, but their willingness to pay your son for that? Either they're willing to spend money to 'prove' that they're really impaired, or they really have some significant difficulties.

 

You said they deny any kind of depression. What about an anxiety disorder of some sort?

 

I would stop letting them use your kid as their guide and see what happens (you can pay your kid so your kid doesn't complain about losing his 'job').

Sorry, I should clarify, I insist that they pay for DS if they need his help. He is providing them a service, he should not have to pay for his own fare. He is already giving his time at no cost. His business is set up in such a way that he makes $10-$35/hour and he does not charge them. If he were employed as someone to teach a disabled person how to use public transportation he would be paid. The very least they can do is pay for his fare.

 

 

I do not know about anxiety disorders. I am not sure and am not trained to identify them.

[bettyandbob]

Why do you have to convince the in-laws of anything? You and dh are independent adults with lives that you can run yourselves. 

 

I know some people can be very persistent with complaining and blaming - oh, how I know! But I eventually realized that I don't have to listen just because they're talking. I will literally walk away or hang up the phone on that type of person. Yes, sometimes that means leaving a family event. Oh, well.  

 

 

This. 

 

I don't think I'd try to convince the in laws of anything. It sounds like they are as bad as the adult children, viewing you and your ds as interlopers. At the same time I wouldn't want to deal with the noise they make when they don't like what is decided, so I'd go with the college tour without elaboration. And since you have pets, I would hire a trusted friend to check up on the pets. I'd say to adult kids "I know you are too busy, so I hired ------------ to come by to care for Fluffy. 

 

I think if the grandparents are so concerned about the adult children needing help, perhaps they should be offering a place for them to live. In your situation, I might consider downsizing my home to a two bedroom condo for a few years at least, so these young adults may start to move on. If they make progress on personal responsibility, you may decide to provide assistance in the future (a portion of a tuition payment or whatever makes sense). Right now any assistance, including the offer of housing in your room seems to be enabling lack of maturity. 

 

 

Incidentally, dh's uncle had to downsize to get some of his adult dc to move. 

[Anne in CA]

Yes, I agree. I worked in the disability advocacy field and with young adults who have IQs that put them on the line of never being fully independent, and yet they are more independent than the step adultren.

 

What is even more worrisome about not being able to figure out the public transit is that the bus to the grocery store stops in front of a house four doors from ours and has a major stop in front of the grocery store. No transfers. Not even turning onto a different street. How does one work with that?

Wow, you have much bigger problems than chores or a vacation. I'm sorry for your stress.

 

In answer to your OP, I would make sure the step dd's know that you will mostly be doing educational things during the trip. Even if you are not. My oldest dd NEVER would do anything educational as an adult, so she skipped every vacation we invited her on as as adult because as home schoolers we were always doing educational things and she didn't like that. No harm, no foul. 

 

When I couched our Mexico vacation as a Spanish Immersion plan she immediately didn't want to go. She would have done the mission part of it with no complaint, but she would NEVER work on her Spanish or go to museums to study Mexican art, or go to cooking seminars. So, if you want them to not want to go, I'd make sure to only highlight the educational things. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Tell the outlaws and steps to GTH and enjoy FL with dh and ds! Seriously, I think for your mental sanity and the health of your marriage, you need a break.  I wouldn't say a peep to the steps until a day or two before you depart on the trip. No sense in dragging out the whining misery.

[idnib]

Working on figuring out adultren boundaries. It is harder than I think it should be due to inlaw influence that I should never have listened to. Before the great blow up at one for being a lazy bum I thought they were mentally handicap because they could not manage a task I viewed as age appropriate for a preschooler. I push for testing and it showed they can learn and are not impaired in that area. But really, I listened to the inlaws about how they really are not their age and still need lots of help. So I am fighting those voices that I listened to and allowed to shape how I viewed them.

 

Master of manipulation, they are.

 

 

I know some of this sounds unbelievable to people, that there really are people like this who have neither mental illness nor some sort of disability. My parents' neighbors had a child who was exactly like this though, and didn't start getting his act together until his mid-30s, when he finally got a job. He was lazy, entitled, and coddled, and his parents always stepped in to do things for him. (And I don't use those words, generally, as I tend to take a generous view toward young adults developing and blooming at different rates.) 

 

Long story short, he moved back in with his parents after being on his own living in a car for awhile, and after his mom passed away from cancer someone on the street reported him for elder abuse of his dad. He doesn't hate his dad or have particular anger towards him, he's simply too lazy to make the effort to care for him properly. 

 

So I do believe you when you say that there are people who are just like this, outliers due to a combination of lack of work ethic and energy, and enabling family members.

 

ETA: It was my parents' neighbors, not my parents!

Edited July 16, 2017 by idnib

[gardenmom5]

Yes, I agree. I worked in the disability advocacy field and with young adults who have IQs that put them on the line of never being fully independent, and yet they are more independent than the step adultren.

 

What is even more worrisome about not being able to figure out the public transit is that the bus to the grocery store stops in front of a house four doors from ours and has a major stop in front of the grocery store. No transfers. Not even turning onto a different street. How does one work with that?

 

these adultren have been indulged, bailed out, and never been required to do for themselves what someone else would do for them. . .  given what I hear - they have a very well developed sense of entitlement.

I do not see that as someone who would ever *willingly* use a bus.  that would be  . . . demoralizing/degrading . . .   and it's not because they are not capable of using a bus, but because it is viewed as "beneath" them so they will refuse.

even if your son is taking his time to take them places on the bus . . I doubt it's becasue they are incapable of figuring out how it works.  if that was the case - there would be more overt signs of anxiety.  this way - they get to treat him as a servant and maybe even pretend in their heads that he is their chauffeur.

[desertstrawberry5]

i feel like a vacation is the least of the problems here. 

 

Am I understanding that you have been married for approximately one year? your dh has his kids living with him and you and your ds moved in to an already existing situation? 

 

Was there a plan in place? were you aware of the situation before joining this family? Did you expect thing s to change? Were you expecting a different situation than the one you now find yourself in?

 

Why are your in laws involved in your marriage in any way? Did they have a large part in raising the adult children? Even if they did, that job is done, yes? There are no more young children in the home, except your one son?

 

your relationship with your stepchildren seems extremely adversarial. I understand this transition is a difficult one. It sounds to me like professional intervention is a bit overdue here. i don't think this is a blended family. I think this is two separate families living in one home, with very little harmony. Y'all need some help sorting this out. 

 

is your relationship with you dh solid? how long have you been together? Is it possible that you kind of jumped into this, expecting to just all fall into place? Were you aware of his parenting style? Were you pleased with it? How involved is he in your ds's life? How involved is he in his own children's lives? they seem to have a lot of control and influence in your lives. How were they getting along before you moved in?

 

What is your plan moving forward? Do you have one?

 

 

[mathnerd]

The house we bought for the steps is in a location that makes access to community college not just easy, but such that not noticing takes effort. 

 

The solution to your problem is laid out in this thread! Your step children hate colleges! Crimson Wife suggested that you tell them that you are going on College Tours :) So, I am 100% sure that they will not want to tag along with you and go to boring college tours, sit in on boring orientation meetings, visit departments that your son is interested in etc etc.

 

Tell them, that you are taking your son to visit a few universities. You mentioned other states besides Florida on your itinerary. So, it could be more than one university. Tell them that if time permits, you will try to make detours and see some places by taking the backroads. Tell them, that most of the trip will be in the car or in universities. My son is only 9, I have taken him on a few college tours already, so it is not too early. For what they are putting you through, you need a break from them and your DS needs a break from them as well.

[Χά�ων]

i feel like a vacation is the least of the problems here.

 

Am I understanding that you have been married for approximately one year? your dh has his kids living with him and you and your ds moved in to an already existing situation?

 

Was there a plan in place? were you aware of the situation before joining this family? Did you expect thing s to change? Were you expecting a different situation than the one you now find yourself in?

 

Why are your in laws involved in your marriage in any way? Did they have a large part in raising the adult children? Even if they did, that job is done, yes? There are no more young children in the home, except your one son?

 

your relationship with your stepchildren seems extremely adversarial. I understand this transition is a difficult one. It sounds to me like professional intervention is a bit overdue here. i don't think this is a blended family. I think this is two separate families living in one home, with very little harmony. Y'all need some help sorting this out.

 

is your relationship with you dh solid? how long have you been together? Is it possible that you kind of jumped into this, expecting to just all fall into place? Were you aware of his parenting style? Were you pleased with it? How involved is he in your ds's life? How involved is he in his own children's lives? they seem to have a lot of control and influence in your lives. How were they getting along before you moved in?

 

What is your plan moving forward? Do you have one?

 

The inlaws put themselves there and one adult child lives with them. I have been blocking them on our lives as much as possible.

 

We bought the house a year ago, but slowly blended for a year before that.

 

I am going to admit that I really thought the one was incredibly stupid. I know, not nice to think, but I am being honest. I see it was manipulation now.

 

Since they are adults, who in theory have their own lives, we did not consult them outside of seeing if they wanted to live with us as that influenced the area and size of the house.

 

I had no idea the level of dysfunction, DH did not either. He treated adult children as roommates and expected them to have their own interests and lives. He did take them to work and major medical appointments. One had a medical issue and even after (incredible) insurance the amount owed was beyond the means of almost all early 20 somethings, so he paid it, a small amount given the alternative was the death of his child.

 

I expected adults to adult. I assumed the limitations was impairment, vs laziness when I was around (I have known the family for 10 years). I expected the seperate lives would continue once we blended the families, because seriously, who in their mid 20's actually wants their parents to be the center of their life?!

 

I am not against adults living at home. I actually think it can be advantagious. The young adult can continue education, get established in their career, save money for their own home, or establish a strong retirement or emergency fund. But, I have expectations of behavior and work.

 

DH and I have a 5 and 10 year plan, it does not include the adults. It includes DS because he will not be finished with the Master's degree he wants. DH has made the transition to not parenting the adult children as though they are tweens, the problem seems to be that the mid 20 somethings have not made the transition to adulthood.

[Χά�ων]

The solution to your problem is laid out in this thread! Your step children hate colleges! Crimson Wife suggested that you tell them that you are going on College Tours :) So, I am 100% sure that they will not want to tag along with you and go to boring college tours, sit in on boring orientation meetings, visit departments that your son is interested in etc etc.

 

Tell them, that you are taking your son to visit a few universities. You mentioned other states besides Florida on your itinerary. So, it could be more than one university. Tell them that if time permits, you will try to make detours and see some places by taking the backroads. Tell them, that most of the trip will be in the car or in universities. My son is only 9, I have taken him on a few college tours already, so it is not too early. For what they are putting you through, you need a break from them and your DS needs a break from them as well.

I will do this.

 

I am sure I will get hell for looking at colleges for DS when they refused to go.

[KungFuPanda]

Meh, just tell them you're going to one of those pioneer immersion camps where you do chores and sleep on hay bales. Scatter some pamphlets about for good measure. They'll quickly opt out. They don't need your details.

[FaithManor]

Meh, just tell them you're going to one of those pioneer immersion camps where you do chores and sleep on hay bales. Scatter some pamphlets about for good measure. They'll quickly opt out. They don't need your details.

LOL "Hey steps, we volunteered for reboot of Pioneer House! PBS, shoveling cow poo, chopping wood, and no electricity. Wanna come?"

[idnib]

LOL "Hey steps, we volunteered for reboot of Pioneer House! PBS, shoveling cow poo, chopping wood, and no electricity. Wanna come?"

 

Don't forget to mention the latrine!

[Alessandra]

We will be visiting colleges and staying in the dorms.

 

Going to a Peace Corps/ mission/ volunteer orientation and learning how to live in a 3rd world country.

 

Participating in a medical experiment in which we are exposed to fear-inducing animals.

 

Going to Mexico. Passport needed.

 

Outward Bound program on an island off the Keys.

 

Survival school, learn to live off the land. Bring a snare, a knife, and the water purification method of your choice.

 

A language intensive, speaking only ____. Requests in English will be ignored.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Alessandra

[Mimm]

Or... just tell them the truth. They've been on cool vacations, your son hasn't, it's his turn, you can't afford everyone. Easy peasy.

 

ETA: I'm pretty conflict averse, but I'm also of the opinion that if people have a problem with perfectly reasonable circumstances, then that is very much THEIR problem. I try my best not to make it my problem.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Mimm

[Spryte]

Or... just tell them the truth. They've been on cool vacations, your son hasn't, it's his turn, you can't afford everyone. Easy peasy.

 

ETA: I'm pretty conflict averse, but I'm also of the opinion that if people have a problem with perfectly reasonable circumstances, then that is very much THEIR problem. I try my best not to make it my problem.

I like this.

[Χά�ων]

My reply to the other thread.

 

After reflection and talking to DH and having talked with them the conclusion is in their own words, "I don't want to grow up." That explains everything, they want a royal childhood with servants that extends well into adulthood. And life is about to get real. I am removing the internet or changing the password daily. They will be denied the new password unless they pay for it. We have four libraries within walking/short bus ride from our house.

 

Plans are now actively being made to meet with the inlaws to draft a plan of action to force them to grow up. In case that fails, I will be still cut off the free ride at our house. DH is going to school, we are setting up and will be running an Air B&B, my son is close to entering high school and his educational needs are increasing. DH and I are drawing up a list which include most of the house work that they will be requires to do.

 

Fret not those who view them as a modern day cinderella, their sibling has fallen for their plight and is actively looking for an apartment so they can take care of their sibling for life. They will fail. Fast food does not pay enough for a 2 bedroom in our area.

 

In this case they are invited to join us on vacation, 100% on their own dime. Paid up front in full. Vacations are for those who work. I consider attended college full time work. If they were truly independent, or actively trying, I would invite them and pay for it, as seems to have been the case for Crimson Wife. I am pretty sure Crimson Wife was not ok living among roaches because she did not want to grow up and work.

 

 

Re: roaches, we are actively murdering any who cross the lines of defense set on the outside paremeter of the house. Dh and I do weekly walk throughs of their room and crack down on food. In the past this adultchild was given a house to live and they completely trashed it. As in food left everywhere, trash covering the floor, no attempts to even sweep.

 

As an aside, we moved a year ago and the sheets have not been changed and the sleeping bag they use has not been washed, even post camping trip.

[caedmyn]

I only read the first page so maybe somebody already said this, but why not just invite the 20-somethings along for the part of the vacation that you wouldn't mind having them along on, and that you're willing to pay for?  Don't invite them for the whole thing and don't make it an option for them to come if they pay their way.

 

And this is just me, but if they're only going to be there for 2-3 days or however long you'll be at Universal Studios, maybe it's not worth being super tight with money for those few days and telling them they can't order sodas with their meals.  Seems like it's just going to raise your stress level trying to monitor and enforce it and dealing with whatever backlash you get from that.  While I understand not wanting to paying for "extras" with meals, and your overall frustration with your step-children's behavior, I would think if you invited, say, another couple out to a meal, you wouldn't micromanage what they ordered, and it might be best to treat the step-children the same way.   

[Melissa in Australia]

My reply to the other thread.

 

 

Sounds great

[gardenmom5]

have they been able to articulate a reason why they don't want to grow up?  could some part of them recognize they don't have the skills for adulthood so they'll just stay home?  that sounds an area of possible anxiety - and when they're willing,  could make progress with some hand holding.

 

what you're doing should go a long way to getting through to them that life costs money. 

 

have they ever done any sort of aptitude testing for a potential career?  if they don't want to do college - there are areas that just certifications or concentrated training programs could lead to a decent living.  that could give them the message - they are capable of developing the skills and employer is looking for so they can pay for life.

 

[Χά�ων]

I only read the first page so maybe somebody already said this, but why not just invite the 20-somethings along for the part of the vacation that you wouldn't mind having them along on, and that you're willing to pay for? Don't invite them for the whole thing and don't make it an option for them to come if they pay their way.

 

And this is just me, but if they're only going to be there for 2-3 days or however long you'll be at Universal Studios, maybe it's not worth being super tight with money for those few days and telling them they can't order sodas with their meals. Seems like it's just going to raise your stress level trying to monitor and enforce it and dealing with whatever backlash you get from that. While I understand not wanting to paying for "extras" with meals, and your overall frustration with your step-children's behavior, I would think if you invited, say, another couple out to a meal, you wouldn't micromanage what they ordered, and it might be best to treat the step-children the same way.

We did the math yesterday, it will cost over $1,200 to put them on a bus and take them to Universal for two days. With that much out of pocket I would give them $20/day and tell them to deal with it.

[KungFuPanda]

Not changing sheets for a year goes well beyond just messy or even lazy. That's just deeply and strangely wrong. It's good you're having your intervention, but it seems like you'll need some medical care to back that up. Have they aged out of your insurance yet?

[MistyMountain]

For your own sanity I think your plan is good. I think living with them is not healthy for your sanity. The in laws are not going to change from helping them transition but it really is not your fault. You are doing what you can but you have forces working against you. If moving even farther away was an option in the future and just really cutting back on contact with the in laws I would do that. It could be something like anxiety or depression causing the issue and I have seen that or it could just be entitlement and laziness because of how they grew up since it sounds like dh did not get as much influence as others. You and dh are otherwise happy but the in law situation makes you really unhappy and stressed.

[Χά�ων]

Not changing sheets for a year goes well beyond just messy or even lazy. That's just deeply and strangely wrong. It's good you're having your intervention, but it seems like you'll need some medical care to back that up. Have they aged out of your insurance yet?

Still on insurance for a bit. What medical speciality could help? Mental health? Neuropsyc? Primary care doctor?

[displace]

Still on insurance for a bit. What medical speciality could help? Mental health? Neuropsyc? Primary care doctor?

I'd start with a pcp and psychiatry eval.

 

Something is super wrong here- depression, anxiety, personality disorders, mental health issues, maybe even low IQ. But maybe something easier, like thyroid or anemia or B12.

[maize]

Still on insurance for a bit. What medical speciality could help? Mental health? Neuropsyc? Primary care doctor?

If they would agree to neuropsych testing that would be good. Has anything ever been diagnosed in the past? This sounds like major executive function trouble and likely anxiety/depression on top of it.

 

When a person is leading such a marginally functional life I feel pretty safe in presuming some degree of malfunction in the brain.

[regentrude]

Still on insurance for a bit. What medical speciality could help? Mental health? Neuropsyc? Primary care doctor?

 

From all you tell about these behaviors, I agree this goes way beyond issues of laziness/entitlement. This is so far beyond normal that I think a full psychiatric evaluation is in order. Their inability to complete basic adult life tasks hints at a severe mental illness that exceeds the family's capability to care for them if they do not receive treatment.

Edited July 16, 2017 by regentrude