So if your 5yo said this to another kid...

[lovinmyboys]

I think the parent probably shared that on the group text thinking it was a safe place (sounds like it was all extended family). I wouldn't read into it that she isn't going to try to teach the child better habits. It really bothers me that a 5yr old is being labeled like that-especially by people who are family.

 

My most difficult child's worst years were 4 and 5. He is almost 7 now and he wouldn't say anything like that these days. 5 is so young. The summer my ds was 4 I told him the pool was closing for the summer and he freaked out. He didn't know that "summer came back." When he said that I realized just how young he really was and it put some of the other things he said then into perspective.

 

Please encourage your daughter to see this child as a child who is still learning appropriate behavior- not as a "bully" or "rude."

[shawthorne44]

I'd be worried, shocked and wonder where I went wrong.  

[gardenmom5]

for a 5yo - I'd probably laugh out of sight, and figure out what they'd been watching or computer games they been playing.  then ban them.

  eta: and yes, we'd have the discussion that it wasn't nice, and why it wasn't nice.  but he's learning them somewhere.

 

I had to ban curious george cartoons.  they had THE WORST influence on him.

Edited May 10, 2017 by gardenmom5

[73349]

A couple of more thoughts.

 

In Lilo and Stitch, Lilo is meant to be ~5, right? Just not an age when kids are impressive in their capacity to deal with big feelings politely.

 

And ... I don't like the volcano comment, but I think the kid saying that is more likely to turn around and be friends again in five minutes than the little kindergartners I've seen trying out playground power plays like "You can't play with us."

 

So if I laughed, it would be 100% behind his back & it's a teachable moment, but not an end-of-the-world event at all.

 

ETA: I agree with PPs about TV. I had to ban Ni Hao Kai-Lan, among others.

Edited May 10, 2017 by whitehawk

[lovinmyboys]

Also, as far as this child bullying your grandchildren, I think the best thing is more supervision when they are together. Most of the time that is all that is needed to keep everyone safe. My ds never physically hurt anyone, but I have a nephew who did at that age (upper elementary now and doesn't hit). At family gatherings the adults took turns supervising the kids.

[EmseB]

I wouldn't find it funny and I'd tell my kid that we don't speak hatefully to other people. If practical I would have my kid apologize for being mean.

 

That said, I would also try to keep things low key, lest additional attention/freaking out only amplify the problem.

[StaceyinLA]

I think the parent probably shared that on the group text thinking it was a safe place (sounds like it was all extended family). I wouldn't read into it that she isn't going to try to teach the child better habits. It really bothers me that a 5yr old is being labeled like that-especially by people who are family.

 

My most difficult child's worst years were 4 and 5. He is almost 7 now and he wouldn't say anything like that these days. 5 is so young. The summer my ds was 4 I told him the pool was closing for the summer and he freaked out. He didn't know that "summer came back." When he said that I realized just how young he really was and it put some of the other things he said then into perspective.

 

Please encourage your daughter to see this child as a child who is still learning appropriate behavior- not as a "bully" or "rude."

Well, because he has been so hateful to her kids, I think it's hard for her to not see him that way. When every single time you're around him, your kids wind up crying and upset, it's hard to see him differently.

 

One thing I had forgotten that she reminded me of yesterday was his telling my 5 yodgs "I wish you were dead," because he got fussed at for pushing my grandson into a mud puddle. It's not like my grandson ran in and tattled on him or anything; he was seen doing it and got caught. He's told them other really ugly things; some of which are typical little kid ("you're not my friend anymore), and some worse.

[StaceyinLA]

And I just wanted to say that I appreciate everyone's thoughts and input. I appreciate other perspectives.

[scrapbookbuzz]

Well IDK if he's trying to be silly. He's not generally a nice kid.

 

And his mom knows this. His teacher sent home a note. Both parents laughed and thought it was funny; made the comment that "apparently it's not ok to say this to another student," when they shared it in a group text thread that included my daughter.

 

I really thought laughing was a terrible reaction because I don't find it remotely funny, especially coming from a kid who is often very rude, but clearly I'm in the minority on that.

 

This kid has gotten in trouble for bullying at school a few times, and he very much bullies my grandkids, who always wind up crying because of mean things he says to them.

While it may just be a "5-year-old boy thing" to do what he did, this also makes me wonder what his home life is like. 

Yes, young children have wild imaginations but to always be rude and mean? I just wonder.

[8circles]

Agreeing with the comments that this can be very normal and not concerning.

 

One thing that I think is important is knowing what happened just prior to this being said, especially if this was said out of anger. My nephew has gotten in trouble at school for saying this kind of thing and it turns out that some other kid was bullying him on the sly, saying things like - I'm going to stalk you forever - while following him around on the playground, quietly mocking him.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'd try not to laugh and tell him it's not nice to say such things and he should not say them.  People don't like it...etc.

 

And I happen to be a highly sensitive person.  I really don't think this is a big deal.  I think it's fine the teacher mentioned it, etc. and I would talk to my kid, but geesh really kids say silly things all the time.  Totally normal. 

 

 

[Paige]

It wouldn't register on my "things to be concerned about" meter unless there were much more to the story. If it were my kid, I'd tell him that he shouldn't say things like that and then I'd drop it. 

[Garga]

I don't think it's funny at all. I don't understand why anyone would have to hide a giggle. I think it's upsetting.

 

I would correct the child, but gently. I don't have a script ready right now for how to handle it to offer, but I agree that I would be upset by it, especially since this is something that happens a lot. If it was a one-time thing, then I might let it go, but over and over? No. Something isn't right. The child may be acting normally for his developmental stage, but it would need to be corrected in a gentle way. It's not acceptable behavior to me, even if it's "normal" for kids to talk that way. It's "normal" for people to distrust someone who looks different, but not acceptable. This is the same thing. I'd be teaching my child not to use such graphic imagry of just how much he wants to hurt someone.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Garga

[HS Mom in NC]

Sounds like cartoon talk to me.  I have 3 older brothers, a nephew and grew up with mostly boys in the neighborhood.  I'd probably just roll my eyes and think it was annoying like I did in real life when boys talked like this.  All of whom were perfectly normal people who didn't harm others. It's how they play sometimes.  Kid A starts with something like the OP described then kid B responds with a similar one up, then it's kid A's turn to out do kid B, then kid Q thinks up a doosey and on it goes until everyone is laughing at their gross, ridiculous statements.

If this kid had a history of exhibiting clinically diagnosed sociopathic behavior then I'd take it seriously.  But just a typical obnoxious trouble maker kid?  Not a big deal.

I'm wondering what the average number of brothers and male friends in childhood is for people who aren't upset by this kind of thing compared to the people who find it disturbing. 

[MistyMountain]

None of what you are describing seems out the ordinary to me for a 5 year old child. I definitely encountered kids saying similar around that age. If it was my child that said something like that I would tell them that it is not ok to talk like that and I would definitely correct the behavior. I would not laugh about it in front of them or to others. It would not concern me about a child that age saying something like that.

Edited May 12, 2017 by MistyMountain

[SKL]

I'm wondering what the average number of brothers and male friends in childhood is for people who aren't upset by this kind of thing compared to the people who find it disturbing. 

 

I have three brothers too.  :)

 

I let my daughters get away with roughhousing etc. that seems intolerable to some of my friends.  My kids' behavior is similar to my brothers', and so it really doesn't faze me.  Of course I am trying to teach them not to act that way in front of others, which is sinking in about as fast as any other social life skill.  :P

 

[heartlikealion]

The parents lack tact if they are going to laugh about it on social media in a group text that includes the parent (if I'm understanding that part of the thread correctly).

 

Not that I never make faux pas, but this just seems like an indication to me that the child does these things because it's not viewed as wrong/inappropriate to him. Or at least not seen as a particularly big deal. Like did they even try to correct the behavior?

 

I've read that sometimes it's best to just apologize on your child's behalf if they do something upsetting to another child, rather than force your child to give an apology. I have a feeling they wouldn't be the type to apologize and just shrug and think the upset child needs to loosen up. /shrug

[heartlikealion]

I grew up with just sisters. Yeah, not having brothers probably does influence my stance on this stuff, but also the fact that my father is very much a "turn the other cheek" type. He tries to remind us not to let others influence our reactions, pray for our enemies, etc. I don't think he fits the mold of the stereotypical male.

[SKL]

I wouldn't assume that because the parents laughed later among adults, that means they didn't advise the child to change his behavior.

[rocassie]

I have a 5yo right now.  He says some pretty ridiculous things that are on the surface are violent but he doesn't quite grasp the physical determent that would happen if what he said were to actually transpire.  My oldest DD (10yrs currently) would also say similar things when she was 5yo.  Many things were exaggerations of books, show, or games they were playing.  I try so hard not to laugh, but sometimes I can't help it.  I would try to correct, especially if it was voiced in anger but sometimes they were just playing with no actual intent to do anyone harm.  

 

Here are a few things that have been said by one or the other:

 

I'm going to bite your head off like a gummi bear.

I'll squash you like a bug, and then you'll moan, "Help me! Help me!"

I"m going to squish you until you're the size of an ant.

If I put this baking soda and vinegar in my mouth, will my head blow off like a volcano?  Wouldn't it be funny if Sister's head exploded and lava started to pour out of her mouth?  Do you think it would hurt to have lava pouring out of your mouth?

I'm so mad, I could eat you up. (Guess which book we had been reading for bedtime repeatedly.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by cbreeding

[HS Mom in NC]

I have three brothers too.  :)

 

I let my daughters get away with roughhousing etc. that seems intolerable to some of my friends.  My kids' behavior is similar to my brothers', and so it really doesn't faze me.  Of course I am trying to teach them not to act that way in front of others, which is sinking in about as fast as any other social life skill.  :p

 

 

I think there's a hyper vigilance to any type of aggression, even playful aggression, that didn't exist a generation ago.  Plenty of us had mothers who threatened us with instant death if we left that #^$%& door open one more time and we all understood that mom wasn't really in a murdering mood, she was just blowing off steam.  None of us suffered any emotional damage from her threats because hyperbole was understood.  

 

I know people who won't let their kids say the word stupid in any context because the sacred, holy, all important feelings of someone somewhere could be potentially hurt and that would be earth shattering.  Meanwhile, the rest of us ask a kid whining about a sibling calling them stupid, "Are you stupid?" The kid answers no.  Then we explain, "Just because someone loses their temper and calls you stupid, it doesn't mean you're stupid. You don't have to believe it when others say things like that." Then we tell the sibling to knock it off.  Everyone walks away perfectly fine and better prepared for life because in life people are going to say obnoxious things to us at some point, and it's up to us to choose not to believe them.  That whole sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me phrase needs a resurgence ASAP. You can't control others, but you can control how you choose to react to them.

 

By the way, the people I know who ban the word stupid have the most hyper sensitive kids who burst into tears over every little slight and struggle keeping friends.  One of my closest friends is like this and I'm never around her with her kids because at 12 and 7 they cry more than my kids did as preschoolers.  There was another kids at PE who was like this.  He must've been about 12 and everyone eventually started calling him Crybaby Ben because he was deeply wounded by normal aggressive play and burst into tears when kids playfully trash talked each other on the basketball court, did the one up aggressive talk, affectionately teased, and the like.  He had no clue what was going on or how to respond, so he just cried. The rest of the kids did it to each other as play and friendship building. It's the same with physically aggressive play.  It's normal and results in harmless bumps and bruises but so many parents are hysterical about it.  I really wonder what their backgrounds are.  Have they really not seen boys wrestling and punching each other for fun?

[SKL]

Oh yeah, just yesterday I told my kid I am going to chop off her legs if she doesn't stop tipping my piano bench while sitting on it.

 

That's not to say violent words can't sound like serious threats though.  I remember bullies using hyperbole on me, and that didn't make them less scary.  It depends on the tone and the general demeanor of the speaker.

[heartlikealion]

I wouldn't assume that because the parents laughed later among adults, that means they didn't advise the child to change his behavior.

 

No, but I was reading the post as one train of thought... "his teacher sent home a note. Both parents laughed..." as if they laughed at their son getting a note sent home. But the laughing may have not been at the note at all, just what they did online. It's kind of hard to say.

 

[heartlikealion]

I think there's a hyper vigilance to any type of aggression, even playful aggression, that didn't exist a generation ago.  Plenty of us had mothers who threatened us with instant death if we left that #^$%& door open one more time and we all understood that mom wasn't really in a murdering mood, she was just blowing off steam.  None of us suffered any emotional damage from her threats because hyperbole was understood.  

 

I know people who won't let their kids say the word stupid in any context because the sacred, holy, all important feelings of someone somewhere could be potentially hurt and that would be earth shattering.  Meanwhile, the rest of us ask a kid whining about a sibling calling them stupid, "Are you stupid?" The kid answers no.  Then we explain, "Just because someone loses their temper and calls you stupid, it doesn't mean you're stupid. You don't have to believe it when others say things like that." Then we tell the sibling to knock it off.  Everyone walks away perfectly fine and better prepared for life because in life people are going to say obnoxious things to us at some point, and it's up to us to choose not to believe them.  That whole sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me phrase needs a resurgence ASAP. You can't control others, but you can control how you choose to react to them.

 

By the way, the people I know who ban the word stupid have the most hyper sensitive kids who burst into tears over every little slight and struggle keeping friends.  One of my closest friends is like this and I'm never around her with her kids because at 12 and 7 they cry more than my kids did as preschoolers.  There was another kids at PE who was like this.  He must've been about 12 and everyone eventually started calling him Crybaby Ben because he was deeply wounded by normal aggressive play and burst into tears when kids playfully trash talked each other on the basketball court, did the one up aggressive talk, affectionately teased, and the like.  He had no clue what was going on or how to respond, so he just cried. The rest of the kids did it to each other as play and friendship building. It's the same with physically aggressive play.  It's normal and results in harmless bumps and bruises but so many parents are hysterical about it.  I really wonder what their backgrounds are.  Have they really not seen boys wrestling and punching each other for fun?

 

"Mom's gonna kill you" seems like use of a common expression, whereas things like "light your eyeballs on fire" doesn't. It's more jarring when it's not commonly heard I think or can't be explained away as "just an expression." And of course context and even age of the speaker/recipient.

 

Sounds like you can't stand this person's way of raising their kids or their kids. Hard to believe you find them tolerable enough to be your closest friend.

 

Some of the things I bolded can be perceived as justification for bullying. "Toughen up, buttercup. Kids do these things" mentality. While I do agree that it seems extreme for a kid to cry everytime they are around other children joking, I wouldn't say that it's necessarily a good way to build friendships, either, just because it's how those particular kids choose to bond. The way you describe these parents makes me think you may want to pick up a copy of The Highly Sensitive Person by Elaine N. Aron. Sensitivity is a spectrum and some of us fall much closer to the other end. It doesn't mean we're weak or inferior or defective as so many people like to imply.

[Melissa in Australia]

I think there's a hyper vigilance to any type of aggression, even playful aggression, that didn't exist a generation ago.  Plenty of us had mothers who threatened us with instant death if we left that #^$%& door open one more time and we all understood that mom wasn't really in a murdering mood, she was just blowing off steam.  None of us suffered any emotional damage from her threats because hyperbole was understood.  

 

I k

some mothers still do.

 

 I threaten to skin my kids alive regularly. - as in  if you do that again I will skin you alive. It is an expression I have picked up from my mother..........

[Liz CA]

Might the child have undiagnosed issues?

 

My son has ASD and when he was 3 he told kids at his preschool that if they didn't stop whatever it was they were doing he was going to bomb their houses.

 

He got that from TV.  He saw the news.  It was just after 9/11.

 

I was horrified and the school made a HUGE deal about it.  We had no idea at the time he had special needs.  We didn't know until years later.  I wish we had known earlier.

 

This is the first impression I had when I read OP's description. Sounds like this little guy has seen a lot of cartoons / movies or played some games.

Others have suggested appropriate responses and a little talk about what words can express frustration a little better than the ones he chose. I would not laugh in front of him but may chuckle later.

However, my response to the letter from school would most certainly not have been what OP described.

[HS Mom in NC]

"Mom's gonna kill you" seems like use of a common expression, whereas things like "light your eyeballs on fire" doesn't. It's more jarring when it's not commonly heard I think or can't be explained away as "just an expression." And of course context and even age of the speaker/recipient.

 

Sounds like you can't stand this person's way of raising their kids or their kids. Hard to believe you find them tolerable enough to be your closest friend.

 

Some of the things I bolded can be perceived as justification for bullying. "Toughen up, buttercup. Kids do these things" mentality. While I do agree that it seems extreme for a kid to cry everytime they are around other children joking, I wouldn't say that it's necessarily a good way to build friendships, either, just because it's how those particular kids choose to bond. The way you describe these parents makes me think you may want to pick up a copy of The Highly Sensitive Person by Elaine N. Aron. Sensitivity is a spectrum and some of us fall much closer to the other end. It doesn't mean we're weak or inferior or defective as so many people like to imply.

So you are aware of the concept then?  It's the phrasing that upsets you?

 

I have friends who raise children very differently than me.  Don't other people? Surely people aren't isolating themselves from people with different parenting views.  Like I said, I don't hang out with this friend with kids because hers cry all the time and run to mommy for intervention over every single eye roll from playmates.  She and I go to coffee shops and the symphony together without kids so it's not an issue between us.

 

Bullying is when someone is intending harm.  Aggressive play among kids has been within the range of normal for a long time and intends no harm. Yes, they may wrestle and play fight in ways that result in minor injuries, but as long as everyone involved is enjoying it, it's not a problem.   It's only this last generation of parents that rough language and rough play are always interpreted as bullying. Do people not have uncles and cousins talk about all the rough boy play?

 

I'm aware of highly sensitive children, my point was we used to teach all kids to not be sensitive about every single thing and aggressive phrase. Highly sensitive children are not the norm, and we need to teach kids how to deal with the range of normal behavior. Sensitive kids especially need to be taught this.  But somehow, plenty of people parenting young kids now seem to have missed out on the concept entirely.  How did that happen!? Are the dads not stepping up and explaining this norm to the moms?  Were the parents raised by highly sensitive parents who are unaware of the range of normal?  How do people not know that it's within the range of normal for a kid to use aggressively worded hyperbole? 

 

We ran into this lack of awareness at church once.  My mother hates pink flamingos-she thinks they're ugly and tacky.  So, as a way of being affectionate, all my brothers and sister and all our kids buy her pink flamingo items and leave them at her house, sometimes on the front lawn.  Every year we buy a pink flamingo ornament and leave it on her picture perfect tree.  She goes on about how horrid and awful and hideous they are.  Then everyone giggles behind their hand.  One very busy year we forgot.  She said she was so disappointed that no one got her a flamingo ornament.  The next year after Sunday school my then 10 year old was coloring, waiting for the services to end and wanted the flamingo page. She explained to the kids she was going to color it pink and leave it for her grandmother because Grandmother hates them.  A whole family of 6 siblings K-6th grade were absolutely horrified that someone would do such a terrible thing to their grandma.  The teacher tried to explain the concept of affectionate teasing/pranks to them and how, like sarcasm, there's an opposite element going on.  They had no clue.  They couldn't grasp it.  Their parents were upset that the teacher (the pastor's wife and mutual friend of my mother's) would encourage and participate in it..in church, even!

 

Yeah.  A lot of people are really missing out on a big aspect of friendships and play and taking it as the exact opposite.  When other people who do get that pick up on the void in other people, they're unlikely to want to be around them as much because the other don't understand the normal range of behavior.  It's a minefield and not really worth the potential hassle. Granted, not everyone engages in it, but that doesn't mean it's categorically bad that some do. 

 

[Carrie12345]

My youngest ones (6 and 10) say crazy things to each other.  When they're being hyper, rowdy kids, it doesn't phase me a bit.  When they say crazy things in fits of intense rage, it's a whole other story.

 

Much like my stb15yo will say SOB if she stubs her toe, but she's in for a world of hurt (is that a threat?) if she *calls me* an SOB.

 

Context matters. (IMO)

[heartlikealion]

So you are aware of the concept then?  It's the phrasing that upsets you?

 

I have friends who raise children very differently than me.  Don't other people? Surely people aren't isolating themselves from people with different parenting views.  Like I said, I don't hang out with this friend with kids because hers cry all the time and run to mommy for intervention over every single eye roll from playmates.  She and I go to coffee shops and the symphony together without kids so it's not an issue between us.

 

Bullying is when someone is intending harm.  Aggressive play among kids has been within the range of normal for a long time and intends no harm. Yes, they may wrestle and play fight in ways that result in minor injuries, but as long as everyone involved is enjoying it, it's not a problem.   It's only this last generation of parents that rough language and rough play are always interpreted as bullying. Do people not have uncles and cousins talk about all the rough boy play?

 

I'm aware of highly sensitive children, my point was we used to teach all kids to not be sensitive about every single thing and aggressive phrase. Highly sensitive children are not the norm, and we need to teach kids how to deal with the range of normal behavior. Sensitive kids especially need to be taught this.  But somehow, plenty of people parenting young kids now seem to have missed out on the concept entirely.  How did that happen!? Are the dads not stepping up and explaining this norm to the moms?  Were the parents raised by highly sensitive parents who are unaware of the range of normal?  How do people not know that it's within the range of normal for a kid to use aggressively worded hyperbole? 

 

We ran into this lack of awareness at church once.  My mother hates pink flamingos-she thinks they're ugly and tacky.  So, as a way of being affectionate, all my brothers and sister and all our kids buy her pink flamingo items and leave them at her house, sometimes on the front lawn.  Every year we buy a pink flamingo ornament and leave it on her picture perfect tree.  She goes on about how horrid and awful and hideous they are.  Then everyone giggles behind their hand.  One very busy year we forgot.  She said she was so disappointed that no one got her a flamingo ornament.  The next year after Sunday school my then 10 year old was coloring, waiting for the services to end and wanted the flamingo page. She explained to the kids she was going to color it pink and leave it for her grandmother because Grandmother hates them.  A whole family of 6 siblings K-6th grade were absolutely horrified that someone would do such a terrible thing to their grandma.  The teacher tried to explain the concept of affectionate teasing/pranks to them and how, like sarcasm, there's an opposite element going on.  They had no clue.  They couldn't grasp it.  Their parents were upset that the teacher (the pastor's wife and mutual friend of my mother's) would encourage and participate in it..in church, even!

 

Yeah.  A lot of people are really missing out on a big aspect of friendships and play and taking it as the exact opposite.  When other people who do get that pick up on the void in other people, they're unlikely to want to be around them as much because the other don't understand the normal range of behavior.  It's a minefield and not really worth the potential hassle. Granted, not everyone engages in it, but that doesn't mean it's categorically bad that some do. 

 

 

It did sound like bullying that the OP described because everything she said implied to me that this child was rude and/or mean. Not playful banter between two friends.

 

She maybe didn't really explain it was a running joke in the family. Just saying that it was something she was doing because someone hated it does not give the full picture you gave me about years of flamingos. I can see why the kids would not grasp it if she didn't elaborate.

 

I never said I was against playful pranking. I don't know if you are under the assumption that I am. I never spoke about pranking anywhere in the thread.

 

[heartlikealion]

And no, I don't think friends have to be similar in every way or let every topic affect their friendship, but it was the way in which you spoke about your friend and her children that made it sound like this person isn't such a close friend. If I was your friend I don't know if I'd want to be after reading a post about my family like that. It just sounded kind of harsh. And I don't think it's so much that highly worded hyperbole is unheard of... it's that it's being said by someone who has a history of acting jerky/isn't a close friend to the recipient.

[Garga]

Oh yeah, just yesterday I told my kid I am going to chop off her legs if she doesn't stop tipping my piano bench while sitting on it.

 

That's not to say violent words can't sound like serious threats though.  I remember bullies using hyperbole on me, and that didn't make them less scary.  It depends on the tone and the general demeanor of the speaker.

 

I agree that it depends on the tone and demeanor and the relationship you have with someone. I joke around alot with the kids and always have, but the tone has been light. The kids giggle. Someone could say the exact same words in a different tone and no one would be giggling.

[StaceyinLA]

Honestly, we don't know the tone in which it was said, but with his history of getting into trouble for bullyish behavior, I just assume it was not done in a joking manner. It was enough to make the other child fearful.

 

As far as his parents, they are nice people. I wouldn't say they're the best parents (the dad is one of those who wants the kid to be "tough" and neither really spend a lot of time at home with the kids (they both work and have a pretty active social life that they haven't seemed to tone down much since they've had children). They've always stayed with an aunt during the day, so they haven't been in daycare. He started pre-k last year and is now in K.

 

I'm sure it seems like a bigger deal to us (well, my dd mostly) just because of the behavior she sees from him regularly. I think she's just going to do her best to avoid situations with them whenever possible.

[maize]

By the way, the people I know who ban the word stupid have the most hyper sensitive kids who burst into tears over every little slight and struggle keeping friends. One of my closest friends is like this and I'm never around her with her kids because at 12 and 7 they cry more than my kids did as preschoolers. There was another kids at PE who was like this. He must've been about 12 and everyone eventually started calling him Crybaby Ben because he was deeply wounded by normal aggressive play and burst into tears when kids playfully trash talked each other on the basketball court, did the one up aggressive talk, affectionately teased, and the like. He had no clue what was going on or how to respond, so he just cried. The rest of the kids did it to each other as play and friendship building. It's the same with physically aggressive play. It's normal and results in harmless bumps and bruises but so many parents are hysterical about it. I really wonder what their backgrounds are. Have they really not seen boys wrestling and punching each other for fun?

Um.

 

Some of what you are describing--emotional sensitivity in combination with anxiety--is highly innate, probably genetic in nature.

 

In other words, I strongly suspect that if you were raising your friend's kids, or "Crybaby Ben" (what a nasty, bullying title!), they would be just as likely to cry as they are now.

 

If you have kids who aren't prone to such emotions and behavior it is easy to be self-congratulatory and assume it is because of your superior parenting; truth is nurture is always limited and anxiety is one of those things that is very heavily influenced by nature. It's easy to look at anxious parents and think it is their parenting that results in anxiety in the kids, but my experience has been that it is the parent's genetic legacy more than their behavior that is at work.

Edited May 12, 2017 by maize

[heartlikealion]

Um.

 

Some of what you are describing--emotional sensitivity in combination with anxiety--is highly innate, probably genetic in nature.

 

In other words, I strongly suspect that if you were raising your friend's kids, or "Crybaby Ben" (what a nasty, bullying title!), they would be just as likely to cry as they are now.

 

If you have kids who aren't prone to such emotions and behavior it is easy to be self-congratulatory and assume it is because of your superior parenting; truth is nurture is always limited and anxiety is one of those things that is very heavily influenced by nature. Its easy to look at anxious parents and think it is their parenting that results in anxiety in the kids, but my experience has been that it is the parent's genetic legacy more than their behavior that is at work.

 

Thank you. I was told I was "too sensitive" my whole life, even from my own father. Later he's the one that picked up the book The Highly Sensitive Person and read it and then let me have his copy. It's aggravating to go your whole life treated like you're defective because of it. I cannot handle certain imagery but it's not because I need to be conditioned or something. I think it's just because it's how I was born. The Walking Dead is one of my favorite shows, but I know my limits and leave the room or close my eyes if it's too intense. The sensitivity I referenced in the book is not limited to taking things to heart. It also affects ability to read a room. Some but not all HSP are empaths. I now understand why my sister has more trouble than me with certain situations.

[8circles]

Thank you. I was told I was "too sensitive" my whole life, even from my own father. Later he's the one that picked up the book The Highly Sensitive Person and read it and then let me have his copy. It's aggravating to go your whole life treated like you're defective because of it. I cannot handle certain imagery but it's not because I need to be conditioned or something. I think it's just because it's how I was born. The Walking Dead is one of my favorite shows, but I know my limits and leave the room or close my eyes if it's too intense. The sensitivity I referenced in the book is not limited to taking things to heart. It also affects ability to read a room. Some but not all HSP are empaths. I now understand why my sister has more trouble than me with certain situations.

 

As an HSP & an empath with high anxiety, I totally agree with you.

[LMD]

highly sensitive is fine, but malicious intent shouldn't be applied just because someone isn't as sensitive either. Especially over a ridiculously hyperbolic, cartoonish comment from a small child who is still learning social appropriateness. I mean really, no one thinks he actually wants to light eyeballs on fire, do they? It's a pretty common 'character is angry' cue, especially in cartoons - like this one (link to a screenshot from 'The Amazing World of Gumball' where the mother character is angry and has eyes of literal fire)

Isn't it pretty common imagery in literature, I'm sure that 'eyes lit up' is basically a cliché, can you imagine how it sounds to a literal minded 5 year old?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=cartoon+gumball+eyes+fire&client=ms-android-samsung&prmd=ivsn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivx4TyruvTAhWLgbwKHaB0BBoQ_AUICigB&biw=320&bih=452#imgrc=mJRwfmm1VnjWJM:

[heartlikealion]

highly sensitive is fine, but malicious intent shouldn't be applied just because someone isn't as sensitive either. Especially over a ridiculously hyperbolic, cartoonish comment from a small child who is still learning social appropriateness. I mean really, no one thinks he actually wants to light eyeballs on fire, do they? It's a pretty common 'character is angry' cue, especially in cartoons - like this one (link to a screenshot from 'The Amazing World of Gumball' where the mother character is angry and has eyes of literal fire)

Isn't it pretty common imagery in literature, I'm sure that 'eyes lit up' is basically a cliché, can you imagine how it sounds to a literal minded 5 year old?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=cartoon+gumball+eyes+fire&client=ms-android-samsung&prmd=ivsn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivx4TyruvTAhWLgbwKHaB0BBoQ_AUICigB&biw=320&bih=452#imgrc=mJRwfmm1VnjWJM:

 

The tone when saying something really outrageous is what makes it sound potentially malicious. That and the relationship. Since they don't seem to have a good relationship and the child was probably actually angry, not saying something like, "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse!" it doesn't put it in the same category as the two friends on the basketball court exchanging smack talk.

[LMD]

well we're hearing it, what, 4th hand? The actual words can be interpreted with different intents, but it isn't a credible threat and I find it way OTT to interpret it as such.

I prefer to err on the side that says a 5 year old isn't being intentionally nasty. And on the side of the parents, even though it's super fun to paint people as bad parents.

[heartlikealion]

well we're hearing it, what, 4th hand? The actual words can be interpreted with different intents, but it isn't a credible threat and I find it way OTT to interpret it as such.

I prefer to err on the side that says a 5 year old isn't being intentionally nasty. And on the side of the parents, even though it's super fun to paint people as bad parents.

 

Yeah, we don't know. I'm just saying that if you're not friends with someone then rude and/or mean things are not seen as funny or even necessarily acceptable. They are seen as rude and/or mean. Saying, "my eyeballs are on fire I'm so mad" is way different than, "You're driving me nuts, I want to light your eyes on fire." Yes, this child may not be able to have the judgement to discern that. I guess we can give him a pass. I was picking on the parents because they laughed at the matter in front of the parents of the other child. Laugh in the privacy of your home or with other friends if you want... but at least don't do it in front of the parents of the child that was upset. I don't even know how this happened, guess they are all linked on facebook or something.

[Ausmumof3]

Well, because he has been so hateful to her kids, I think it's hard for her to not see him that way. When every single time you're around him, your kids wind up crying and upset, it's hard to see him differently.

 

One thing I had forgotten that she reminded me of yesterday was his telling my 5 yodgs "I wish you were dead," because he got fussed at for pushing my grandson into a mud puddle. It's not like my grandson ran in and tattled on him or anything; he was seen doing it and got caught. He's told them other really ugly things; some of which are typical little kid ("you're not my friend anymore), and some worse.

For what it's worth I totally get it. There's a kid that's similar in age to my five year old but literally a head taller. Objectively I can see he may have some issues that the parents haven't figured out yet but it doesn't change the fact that every time they play my kid gets hurt. And my kid is physically pretty tough and doesn't cry easily.

[LMD]

well, I'm feeling a bit prickly at the idea that I'm not allowed to laugh at something clearly ridiculous, except in the privacy of my own home.

I could easily see laughing as a first response, even in front of the other family, as a way to diffuse the situation and highlight the absurdity of 5 year olds.

 

I am really struggling with what people are wanting here?

a boring, safe world where people are castigated for laughing at the 'wrong' moment? I hope that the parents in question choose their audience better in future, and I hope that the child matures, but I don't see the big deal at all. Some people are sensitive? okay, some people aren't. Labelling a 5 year old relative because of a mismatch in sensitivity levels is mean imo.

If they really are a 'bad' family that the people in question can't bear to be around, well that's up to them - not up to a message board.

The op wanted to know what other people would think and was happy with the wide range of responses.

Edited May 12, 2017 by LMD

[Ausmumof3]

I think there's a hyper vigilance to any type of aggression, even playful aggression, that didn't exist a generation ago. Plenty of us had mothers who threatened us with instant death if we left that #^$%& door open one more time and we all understood that mom wasn't really in a murdering mood, she was just blowing off steam. None of us suffered any emotional damage from her threats because hyperbole was understood.

 

I know people who won't let their kids say the word stupid in any context because the sacred, holy, all important feelings of someone somewhere could be potentially hurt and that would be earth shattering. Meanwhile, the rest of us ask a kid whining about a sibling calling them stupid, "Are you stupid?" The kid answers no. Then we explain, "Just because someone loses their temper and calls you stupid, it doesn't mean you're stupid. You don't have to believe it when others say things like that." Then we tell the sibling to knock it off. Everyone walks away perfectly fine and better prepared for life because in life people are going to say obnoxious things to us at some point, and it's up to us to choose not to believe them. That whole sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me phrase needs a resurgence ASAP. You can't control others, but you can control how you choose to react to them.

 

By the way, the people I know who ban the word stupid have the most hyper sensitive kids who burst into tears over every little slight and struggle keeping friends. One of my closest friends is like this and I'm never around her with her kids because at 12 and 7 they cry more than my kids did as preschoolers. There was another kids at PE who was like this. He must've been about 12 and everyone eventually started calling him Crybaby Ben because he was deeply wounded by normal aggressive play and burst into tears when kids playfully trash talked each other on the basketball court, did the one up aggressive talk, affectionately teased, and the like. He had no clue what was going on or how to respond, so he just cried. The rest of the kids did it to each other as play and friendship building. It's the same with physically aggressive play. It's normal and results in harmless bumps and bruises but so many parents are hysterical about it. I really wonder what their backgrounds are. Have they really not seen boys wrestling and punching each other for fun?

It may be that because they have hypersensitive kids who cry easily they have become more sensitive about mean things being said themselves. Sometimes the child creates the parenting as much as the parenting creates the child.

[Catwoman]

Honestly, we don't know the tone in which it was said, but with his history of getting into trouble for bullyish behavior, I just assume it was not done in a joking manner. It was enough to make the other child fearful.

 

As far as his parents, they are nice people. I wouldn't say they're the best parents (the dad is one of those who wants the kid to be "tough" and neither really spend a lot of time at home with the kids (they both work and have a pretty active social life that they haven't seemed to tone down much since they've had children). They've always stayed with an aunt during the day, so they haven't been in daycare. He started pre-k last year and is now in K.

 

I'm sure it seems like a bigger deal to us (well, my dd mostly) just because of the behavior she sees from him regularly. I think she's just going to do her best to avoid situations with them whenever possible.

If it was enough to make the other child fearful (and that child isn't known for being overly fearful of things,) that would seem to imply that this wasn't just friendly banter and that the words were said in an aggressive manner.

[Ausmumof3]

As with everyone else I think context is so important here. I also don't hear stuff like that and think wow what an imaginative kid. I generally thing "someone's watched too much tv".

 

If the kids was being bullied it could be a smart funny sassy way to deal with it.

 

If it was said in a playful way to a good friend it could be funny.

 

If it was said to a more sensitive kid in a mean way it was inappropriate.

 

Either way I think as a parent I'd probably deal with it seriously with the kid but I might have a laugh later on Facebook. I wouldn't want the kid to know I thought it was funny though.

 

We do try teach "say what you mean and mean what you say here" though.

[Catwoman]

I think there's a hyper vigilance to any type of aggression, even playful aggression, that didn't exist a generation ago. Plenty of us had mothers who threatened us with instant death if we left that #^$%& door open one more time and we all understood that mom wasn't really in a murdering mood, she was just blowing off steam. None of us suffered any emotional damage from her threats because hyperbole was understood.

 

I know people who won't let their kids say the word stupid in any context because the sacred, holy, all important feelings of someone somewhere could be potentially hurt and that would be earth shattering. Meanwhile, the rest of us ask a kid whining about a sibling calling them stupid, "Are you stupid?" The kid answers no. Then we explain, "Just because someone loses their temper and calls you stupid, it doesn't mean you're stupid. You don't have to believe it when others say things like that." Then we tell the sibling to knock it off. Everyone walks away perfectly fine and better prepared for life because in life people are going to say obnoxious things to us at some point, and it's up to us to choose not to believe them. That whole sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me phrase needs a resurgence ASAP. You can't control others, but you can control how you choose to react to them.

 

By the way, the people I know who ban the word stupid have the most hyper sensitive kids who burst into tears over every little slight and struggle keeping friends. One of my closest friends is like this and I'm never around her with her kids because at 12 and 7 they cry more than my kids did as preschoolers. There was another kids at PE who was like this. He must've been about 12 and everyone eventually started calling him Crybaby Ben because he was deeply wounded by normal aggressive play and burst into tears when kids playfully trash talked each other on the basketball court, did the one up aggressive talk, affectionately teased, and the like. He had no clue what was going on or how to respond, so he just cried. The rest of the kids did it to each other as play and friendship building. It's the same with physically aggressive play. It's normal and results in harmless bumps and bruises but so many parents are hysterical about it. I really wonder what their backgrounds are. Have they really not seen boys wrestling and punching each other for fun?

"Crybaby Ben?" Really? And you're okay with that? I think it's a horrible thing to have called that boy such a cruel name.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The tone when saying something really outrageous is what makes it sound potentially malicious. That and the relationship. Since they don't seem to have a good relationship and the child was probably actually angry, not saying something like, "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse!" it doesn't put it in the same category as the two friends on the basketball court exchanging smack talk.

 

And the OP says herself that she didn't hear it and doesn't know what tone was used.  So perhaps we should trust people to parent their own children.  Both the parents of the boy who has been labeled a "jerk" at the tender years of five years old no less.  And also the parents of the other child.  And the teacher or principal who sent the note.  They can work it out between them.with no help from us. 

 

Hopefully both boys adults in their corner who truly love them as they are and who are willing to guide them to adulthood.  Personally I think that either extreme of being overly brash or overly sensitive can be somewhat of a handicap to people as they grow up.  But none of it is decided on the basis of one playground incident and certainly not by five years old. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well IDK if he's trying to be silly. He's not generally a nice kid.

 

And his mom knows this. His teacher sent home a note. Both parents laughed and thought it was funny; made the comment that "apparently it's not ok to say this to another student," when they shared it in a group text thread that included my daughter.

 

I really thought laughing was a terrible reaction because I don't find it remotely funny, especially coming from a kid who is often very rude, but clearly I'm in the minority on that.

 

This kid has gotten in trouble for bullying at school a few times, and he very much bullies my grandkids, who always wind up crying because of mean things he says to them.

 

I don't know why some people are saying that the boy's parents laughed about it in front of the other boy's parents.  It was shared in a group text - to family - presumably to other adults.  If the child's aunt is unhappy with how the boy treats her kids then she needs to deal with it directly right then and there.  All the aunts I know will say something like "Kids, I want you to share your toys" or "Kids, please speak nicely to each other".  And then actually supervise them. 

 

As to whether family should share such stories with each other - well, that might depend on family dynamics but there is nothing wrong with asking to be kept off of the group texts if such stories bother you.  But I don't have much sympathy with adults branding young children with labels.  It makes me wonder if he is then treated according to those labels, making it all a self-fulfilling prophecy.  (I shared stories of my daughter stealing candy from the store when she was five, and fortunately the adults all laughed and no one branded her as a thief at the age of five.  I did have her take the candy back and we dealt with it, but that was not part of what really was a funny story of her going behind me and taking candies out of the open bins in the store's self serve section.)

[Laurie4b]

I get the volcano thing can't happen, but I just feel like that's a pretty graphic threat, especially the lighting the eyeballs on fire part.

 

I work with kids that age and their regular old play can be about blowing up the whole planet while building some contraption on the playground to do it, kind of preschool OM style. Hot lava is a favorite topic. I can't quote you anything but I know the first couple times, I kinda was wide-eyed. The director told me it's very normal play. I would have had a different reaction if I hadn't heard this myself. None of the kids saying these things is even slightly aggressive. 

 

 

So my question would be whether it was truly an attempted threat or a statement in play that an adult got upset about. 

Edited May 13, 2017 by Laurie4b

[heartlikealion]

well, I'm feeling a bit prickly at the idea that I'm not allowed to laugh at something clearly ridiculous, except in the privacy of my own home.

I could easily see laughing as a first response, even in front of the other family, as a way to diffuse the situation and highlight the absurdity of 5 year olds.

 

I am really struggling with what people are wanting here?

a boring, safe world where people are castigated for laughing at the 'wrong' moment? I hope that the parents in question choose their audience better in future, and I hope that the child matures, but I don't see the big deal at all. Some people are sensitive? okay, some people aren't. Labelling a 5 year old relative because of a mismatch in sensitivity levels is mean imo.

If they really are a 'bad' family that the people in question can't bear to be around, well that's up to them - not up to a message board.

The op wanted to know what other people would think and was happy with the wide range of responses.

 

We already live in that world... go laugh at the scene of an accident or something and see how that goes. Face it, there's a time and place for everything. To you it would diffuse a situation, fair enough. To me, I couldn't get over the darkness in the movie Kobo (I made a thread about that) and most people were unfazed about the witches threatening to pluck the boy's eyes out! I found it extremely disturbing. But, I've also had a chemical burn and a papercut in my eye which maybe intensified my defensiveness about content with eye injuries. I was greatly disturbed by a couple other movies for similar reasons. These movie makers must know it's disturbing.

 

In short, you're allowed to do whatever you like, but you might be judged for it. Just like every time I post on this thread I know people are judging me.

[heartlikealion]

And the OP says herself that she didn't hear it and doesn't know what tone was used.  So perhaps we should trust people to parent their own children.  Both the parents of the boy who has been labeled a "jerk" at the tender years of five years old no less.  And also the parents of the other child.  And the teacher or principal who sent the note.  They can work it out between them.with no help from us. 

 

Hopefully both boys adults in their corner who truly love them as they are and who are willing to guide them to adulthood.  Personally I think that either extreme of being overly brash or overly sensitive can be somewhat of a handicap to people as they grow up.  But none of it is decided on the basis of one playground incident and certainly not by five years old. 

 

I don't know why some people are saying that the boy's parents laughed about it in front of the other boy's parents.  It was shared in a group text - to family - presumably to other adults.  If the child's aunt is unhappy with how the boy treats her kids then she needs to deal with it directly right then and there.  All the aunts I know will say something like "Kids, I want you to share your toys" or "Kids, please speak nicely to each other".  And then actually supervise them. 

 

As to whether family should share such stories with each other - well, that might depend on family dynamics but there is nothing wrong with asking to be kept off of the group texts if such stories bother you.  But I don't have much sympathy with adults branding young children with labels.  It makes me wonder if he is then treated according to those labels, making it all a self-fulfilling prophecy.  (I shared stories of my daughter stealing candy from the store when she was five, and fortunately the adults all laughed and no one branded her as a thief at the age of five.  I did have her take the candy back and we dealt with it, but that was not part of what really was a funny story of her going behind me and taking candies out of the open bins in the store's self serve section.)

 

I honestly somehow didn't realize that the families were related. I know it states it in the OP but it didn't sink in. Yeah, they need to be supervised and the aunt(s) or whoever should speak up if there are issues. Now the group text chain makes more sense, since they are related. But if you know who your audience is, you might wanna rethink that text. I could see that going either way (hey it was a harmless text, don't sweat it). As for noticing laughter, they probably used a laughing emoji. The whole thing seems more harmless now that I'm understanding the group text context better but yes still questionable judgement.

 

As far as branding a kid a jerk or a thief. I think that was done after multiple interactions, not one? So if your child stole candy multiple times, yes, it's possible that other parents might whisper to each other, "keep an eye on this one, she might steal from you" or such. It wouldn't surprise me. And no, people shouldn't get stuck with a label just because of something that happened at age five.