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So if your 5yo said this to another kid...


StaceyinLA
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WWYD? And no, not my grandchild, but it's their cousin on the other side of the family and he's kind of a little jerk; says rude things to my grandkids almost every time they're together.

 

He got a note at school for telling another kid he was going to, "throw him in a volcano, pull him out, and then light his eyeballs on fire."

 

What would you think if your kid said this? Would you laugh? Would it concern you? Inquiring minds want to know...

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My almost 4 year old (DD) says similar to her 11 year old brother. We have no idea where she gets it from. Maybe Disney Junior cartoons? (Elena of Avalor had a volcano monster...) I'm hoping her wild imagination leads her to be an awesome writer. Thankfully her mild anxiety keeps her on her best behavior at preschool. For now...

 

We don't laugh around her, and we make her try again and speak kindly, etc., etc. Her Barbies and Calico Critter dolls also do very interesting things. 

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I would laugh, but not in the kid's hearing.

 

He's five, they say all sorts of crazy things. I would make sure he knew it was unacceptable; if there's a pattern I would get very intentional and proactive about it (giving reminders before he goes into situations, practicing nicer ways to talk, etc.) but I'm not sure I would be "concerned" depending what you mean by that.

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It sounds like the kind of hyperbole little kids are prone to. Cartoon talk, if you will. Little boys can be especially drawn to this, in my experience. 

 

What was his intent? Was he saying this in a deliberately mean way, trying on purpose to hurt feelings?

 

Or was he merely flippant, sarcastic, or silly? 

 

In the first case, I would talk to the kid about meanness and hurting feelings on purpose, and I might have a word with his mom.

 

In the second case, I would gently tell him talking about volcanoes is cool but that it hurts feelings to suggest throwing someone in. And then we might either talk more about cool volcanoes or perhaps model ways to be silly that don't imply death and torture to other people. He's just a little guy, trying to be silly, right?

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I'd ask him how he planned to do that. Where is this volcano? How will you get there? If you weigh 42lbs and Johnny weighs 45lbs, how will you lift him? How hot is a volcano? Can you pull him out? If eyeballs are wet, how will you light them on fire?

 

And then we'd have a chat about saying what we mean and better ways to express that sentiment, ones he can back up.

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Well IDK if he's trying to be silly. He's not generally a nice kid.

 

And his mom knows this. His teacher sent home a note. Both parents laughed and thought it was funny; made the comment that "apparently it's not ok to say this to another student," when they shared it in a group text thread that included my daughter.

 

I really thought laughing was a terrible reaction because I don't find it remotely funny, especially coming from a kid who is often very rude, but clearly I'm in the minority on that.

 

This kid has gotten in trouble for bullying at school a few times, and he very much bullies my grandkids, who always wind up crying because of mean things he says to them.

Edited by StaceyinLA
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How did the parent of the other child take it?

 

When my oldest was in grade 1, another kid casually told him that he was going to bring a knife to school and cut him into pieces. Totally different threat level, I know, compared to a volcano. What was strange was how casually my DS told me. Like, if we hadn't been walking an unusually long way to DH's office that day, it might have never come up. The principal added it to this child's rather thick file of incidents.

 

So I guess my reaction would depend on the context in which it was said, and any prior incidents that might indicate a pattern.

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I wonder if your dislike of this child is coloring your opinion of the comment....

I thought about that, because he is a rude child and kids like that are difficult to like, but I think I'd have flipped if my son said something like that at that age, and I know I wouldn't want my grandson to talk like that.

 

Maybe I just haven't been around boys who acted this way. I can't remember any of the kids in my family saying these types of things, and yes, plenty of boys who talked about farts and other gross things.

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Could he be reacting this way because he is insecure/feeling stressed at school?  I know DS started going through a period of saying similar when he was actually feeling extremely stressed at school.  It was a defense mechanism.  I have a nephew that did similar as well.  He was lagging behind in social skills and would strike out verbally when he felt cornered.

 

Personally, I wouldn't immediately think bad thoughts about a kid that young saying these things.  This isn't abnormal.  But if it is an ongoing issue I would wonder if he needed some targeted social skills help and if there weren't some underlying cause for stress/anxiety.

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How did the parent of the other child take it?

 

When my oldest was in grade 1, another kid casually told him that he was going to bring a knife to school and cut him into pieces. Totally different threat level, I know, compared to a volcano. What was strange was how casually my DS told me. Like, if we hadn't been walking an unusually long way to DH's office that day, it might have never come up. The principal added it to this child's rather thick file of incidents.

 

So I guess my reaction would depend on the context in which it was said, and any prior incidents that might indicate a pattern.

Wow that's a bit scary. But yeah, I think part of what's coloring what I, and my daughter, thought when we read it is his past behaviors and things he has said.

 

I'm not saying the child is a psychopath, but he certainly has some problematic behaviors and often treats other children badly.

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5 year olds come in a range of social skills and it is well within the developmental norms for kids this age to say things like this. Our current climate that is hyper sensitive to bullying has begun dissecting these types of things earlier and earlier. Children just do not understand the nuances of give and take and impulse control. The comment itself wouldn't alarm me. Even the best behaved kids will say things like this when parents are not around and most kids don't bother to tattle about it as it can be common place. If he is still doing it in 2nd grade then I would be questioning it. My way of dealing with this behavior is two fold; first this little guy needs to begin having conversations about kindness and hurtful comments when it is caught. He may not be perspective taking yet so he needs to learn about what it is like in someone else's shoes. For the child receiving said comments I would begin bolstering their Teflon coating. We talk alot about how people like to go around putting star stickers and circle stickers on each other (star stickers would be praise and circle stickers would be insults...based on a book we adore) and we would talk about how we can not let those stickers stick to us. It is part of character building we do here.

 

I call it early inoculation. I prefer my own kids to experience these types of situations when they are young and the lesson is cheap. If the first experience they get with this is teen years when emotions are all over it becomes very dangerous for their self worth. So I might sound like a crazy person but I celebrate these moments I get to support my littles in the experiences of life and social interactions :)

 

A funny aside but my grown son, when he was in 2nd grade, had a boy in his class exactly like this. My son was sensitive and had such a hard time with this boy. He would say creative put downs like this constantly. The loving parents of this particular class went out of their way to help their own kids handle it and the staff worked with the family. My son is still friends with this kid to this day (they are 23 now) and this boy works for Microsoft. He is a really well put together adult.

Edited by nixpix5
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I thought about that, because he is a rude child and kids like that are difficult to like, but I think I'd have flipped if my son said something like that at that age, and I know I wouldn't want my grandson to talk like that.

 

Maybe I just haven't been around boys who acted this way. I can't remember any of the kids in my family saying these types of things, and yes, plenty of boys who talked about farts and other gross things.

Kids at this age, especially boys, say things to each other that adults may not know, unless they accidentally overhear. I can remember telling gruesome stories to my friends at age five and I turned out fine. My parents didn't talk that way, but I did watch a lot of television then.

 

Like others, I think the boy watches too much television. Even the Disney Channel is not as wholesome as you'd expect. The characters on many shows say awful things to one another.

 

If it were my own child, I would talk with him, saying that's not how we talk to people and I'd expect it's a lesson I'd need to repeat often. I wouldn't share the story with others, especially on a group text or social media. I was a child with a difficult personality, I have at least one child who can be a challenge, and I've learned that stories like the one described were used to reinforce relative's ill will.

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My son didn't kill bugs much less examine their guts.  And he had/has a vivid imagination.  But he never said anything remotely like that.

 

So I don't know.  By itself, probably not worrisome.  As a whole I hope your dd can keep her kids away from him for the most part.

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I think his tendency to be rude and jerkish in general is more concerning than the actual words that came out of his mouth. If he's angry all the time, sounds like he needs some help.

 

My almost 4 year old threw this fantastic tantrum and told me she wanted everyone to die (except her little brother). This was right after she angrily smashed a banana and tried to throw a dozen eggs in the garbage. But she was upset over having to leave her cousins' house and all their baby kittens. (Can you blame her?) She feel things strongly, but most of the time her behavior is just fine. She's sweet and independent and spunky. So I can laugh (not at her) when her emotions get the best of her and she lashes out.

 

I think all kids at that age need some guidance on how to process their feelings and need to be told when their reactions are out of line. Either his behavior isn't being corrected or it's being encouraged, or there's something going on his life that is frustrating him.

Edited by DesertBlossom
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I'm often heard telling my kids "don't say that at school."

 

It's also important that they learn to see things from the other person's perspective.

 

But, honestly, I would chuckle a little to myself.  That's pretty creative.  Assuming, of course, that the child has no actual tendencies to physically harm or bully people.

 

My kid around that age got in trouble at school for saying "come on, buttcheeks!" to motivate her classmates to move.  For some unknown reason Buttcheeks was a term of endearment that she used at home.  But no, it does not go over well at school.  :P

 

One thing I will say - we teach kids to "use their words" when things frustrate them.  So they are supposed to think of some words that express their frustration.  At 5 they are still learning what kinds of words are OK to express frustration.  It's not unusual to hear "I hate you" / "You're stupid" / "I'm gonna tell on you" type comments.  "I'm gonna throw you in a volcano and set your eyes on fire" is more colorful, yes, but I doubt the kid meant it literally; he was just trying to express how big his frustration was.  Rather than respond with horror, I would teach him some better words to say, like "that really upsets me when you do that."

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My first thought was that this comment wouldn't even really register with me.  We'd have the talk about being kind, etc., but it would slightly amuse me and I wouldn't be concerned.  Then I thought about a particular child in our lives (we rarely see him and he lives in another state) saying this when he was five, and it would trouble me because he exhibits other behaviors that are not okay and I worry about him.

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WWYD? And no, not my grandchild, but it's their cousin on the other side of the family and he's kind of a little jerk; says rude things to my grandkids almost every time they're together.

 

He got a note at school for telling another kid he was going to, "throw him in a volcano, pull him out, and then light his eyeballs on fire."

 

What would you think if your kid said this? Would you laugh? Would it concern you? Inquiring minds want to know...

My child would be in trouble. 

 

I would love to do that to some people. But children need to learn limits on what they say and why they say it. Thoughts and opinions are ok. Vocalizing everything and failing to have a filter is not ok. 

 

Of course, if the 5 yr old was a victim of bullying by the child the 5 yr old said this too, I might have a different take on things. But I would need to be pretty sure my child was being bullied as bullies themselves have a habit of claiming to be the victim. 

Edited by Janeway
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Actually sounds like fairly normal little boy humor, though that would depend on the tone.

 

If it were my child I would talk to them about how that kind of thing can make other people feel hurt or afraid and strongly urge them not to say such things.

 

I wouldn't think anything in particular was wrong with the kid though.

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My 4 year old says crazy things like this. He can also be quite mean to other kids but really only kids he knows well like siblings and cousins. For him, he thinks he's being funny and really doesn't understand why people think he's being mean. We've been working on it but it is a process.

 

I actually think the comment by the 5 year old his funny because of how ridiculous it is. But context matters. My kids try to one up each other in regards to how ridiculous of a statement regarding something they can make. Since they are currently dealing with a death in the family they talk about ways people can die. So that comment wouldn't phase me at all if my kids were talking to each other.

 

But if said to a kid after they had a disagreement I would still think the comment was funny because it's ridiculous but I'd also be upset my kid was threatening someone. The threatening behavior would be corrected. But I wouldn't even worry about the words used in the threat

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I'm with a lot of the other posters that I wouldn't think much of it. It's kind of funny from a little kid just because it's so specific and visual. Either he watches a lot of TV and borrowed the phrase or he's really creative - or a little of both. I wouldn't assume he was a budding problem child from that comment. I wouldn't think it was a big deal at all really.

 

On the other hand, I *would* be just as annoyed by the parenting. Some kid was upset by the comment (with good reason!) and the parents basically told him - in sarcastic language, which is never a good idea for young children - to go forth and say whatever he wants. And that's not cool.

 

So, I think you can think the comment is no big deal, but that the parents really mishandled it.

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Since I have a thing about eyeball injuries (I get freaked out when TV/movies have stuff with eyeballs) that would especially rub me the wrong way. If it was my kid I would have a talk about how you shouldn't make threats and how there are better ways to deal with anger/frustration/etc. Maybe tell them to walk away and not talk to the kid that is bothering them in the moment. But I wouldn't expect a lot of self control at that age. Just remind them that it's not ok to say mean things like that. Remind them if there's a real issue they can get an adult involved. Something like that.

 

I might also ask where he came up with what he said (did he hear it somewhere else or what).

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Wow that's a bit scary. But yeah, I think part of what's coloring what I, and my daughter, thought when we read it is his past behaviors and things he has said.

 

I'm not saying the child is a psychopath, but he certainly has some problematic behaviors and often treats other children badly.

Agreeing with a PP that overall, this wasn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of being a 5yo boy, and that these incidents in families tend to pile on to "that kid".

For my mom, there is "that" grandson. (Fortunately not mine :p ) I don't see him enough to hazard a guess at a diagnosis, but I'm sure there would be one if he were evaluated. But my mom can't see that, and because of a couple of incidents, she just expects him to be trouble. And so she is hyper focused on his behaviour, and never misses a thing that might have otherwise been "fixed" before she noticed. And it's almost as though subconsciously she wants him to fulfill that label and sets him up for failure. (WHY would you even leave the remote for your remote control blinds out when they're coming to stay?!) And so everything that might be brushed off as being 5yo boy "stuff" becomes another example of how this grandson is "a horrible child". And so, when everyone in the family starts sharing stories, it reinforces everyone's perception. Meanwhile, all the other grandsons have had their moments, too, but because they haven't been compared and added up, they seem like isolated incidents.

So maybe this kid is just a regular 5yo, who said something silly to someone who took it the wrong way, and it's just been added to the litany of his offences in the family lore?

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Well I'd be more likely to panic and talk to a therapist, but this is probably due to being a foster parent, and isn't a typical parenting response.

 

In the mean time I would have a serious discussion about choosing words carefully and not threatening people because there really ARE bad people in the world who do bad things and I would never want him to be mistaken for one of them.  Possibly along with reading The Boy Who Cried Wolf, or doing copywork about threatening people, depending on the impression I got after talking to him about it.

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My ds8 does say things like this and in spades. He has autism and it goes with the delays and social thinking deficits. Part of it is how how thinks (as you're seeing, it can be a stage developmentally for younger boys) and part of it is not having the language to express his emotions more appropriately. So instead of saying "I hate this and feel really frustrated!" he might say something threatening and scary (I'm going to blow you up with a bazooka).

 

You actually have multiple issues there. One, what do the parents do, not my business. Two, what should the school do, well it sounds like they're bumbling and working on it and might eventually get there. And three what should the family or victims of his words do. That part is the simplest. You state "When you say threatening things like that, we feel scared and don't want to be with you" and you leave. If you don't want to totally leave, you take a break for an hour where that dc isn't allowed to play with your dc, allowing him to see the consequence and allowing your own dc to feel safe. My ds has autism, and that's the courtesy I expect, that people TELL him how his actions make them feel and that there is a CONSEQUENCE.

 

If the kid has a serious disability, it's probably not going to sink in but at least the other child doesn't feel traumatized or ignored. If he's more developmentally typical, it may actually sink in. 

Edited by OhElizabeth
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I would let the child know that it wasn't ok to say that.

And then we would laugh. 😂The reason we could laugh about it is that it's so over the top and absurd. If he said "I'm going to stab you with my pencil", that would be more concerning.

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I have a friend with two (pretty well-behaved) young boys. Her take on it is that kids are essentially born sociopaths and have to be parented into being kind/generous/thoughtful/polite human beings. (I think the book of Proverbs backs her up on this one--something to the effect of kids being foolish.) This kind of comment from a 5yo I think is both developmentally normal and proves her right.

 

I mean, as a parent, I haven't thought to tell DS not to tell people he'll throw them into volcanoes--it doesn't come up unless a kid has already said something obnoxious. Just keep giving the kid lots of warm fuzzies when he says something nice, and correct matter-of-factly ("Don't threaten to hurt people. They don't like that") when he comes out with the foolishness.

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I would be concerned. Not that the child is unusually violent, because I think most small children experiment with saying mean or violent things, but wondering where he got ideas like that! Can most children that age think up stuff like that on their own?

 

I would probably react with a disapproving look and move on, unless the other child was upset. But I think his parents need to really work on being kind and gentle and using words thoughtfully with him, since it sounds like this is his habitual behavior. But you probably can't suggest it to them unless you have an excellent relationship.

 

 

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I get the volcano thing can't happen, but I just feel like that's a pretty graphic threat, especially the lighting the eyeballs on fire part.

 

In a vacuum, while it is graphic, I don't think it's that bizarre. The main "monster" from the Moana movie is a lava monster with fire eyes. Some kids have more vivid imaginations and advanced verbal skills to their storytelling 

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WWYD? And no, not my grandchild, but it's their cousin on the other side of the family and he's kind of a little jerk; says rude things to my grandkids almost every time they're together.

He got a note at school for telling another kid he was going to, "throw him in a volcano, pull him out, and then light his eyeballs on fire."

What would you think if your kid said this? Would you laugh? Would it concern you? Inquiring minds want to know...

  

I don't think it's funny, either.

 

I wouldn't find it funny, either, and I could definitely understand if the parents of the other child were concerned about it, particularly if this boy tends to be a bit of a bully and he didn't seem to be joking when he said it. I could imagine that kind of threat being scary to another 5 year-old.

 

It's easy to laugh things off when they're not directed at your kid.

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So much depends on tone which even the OP didn't hear.  In "no tolerance" environments, even innocent things can be blown out of proportion. The words themselves are funny but we use a lot of hyperbole in this household and no one is sociopathic or violent or abusive.  (For example, "If you don't turn in your math, I'm gonna hang you up by your toes!"  A lighthearted tone lets everyone know that no ones toes are actually in danger.)  I wouldn't laugh in front of the child, but I might share it as a funny with other adults who I would expect to be able to laugh at it without overreacting.  And even if I heard it or it was directed to my child in anger, I wouldn't get too worked up about it.  I would simply tell the child to use different words to express their anger.  I think that overreacting to things can make things into something that overwise they would never have become - aka - a big deal. 

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I get the volcano thing can't happen, but I just feel like that's a pretty graphic threat, especially the lighting the eyeballs on fire part.

 

Might the child have undiagnosed issues?

 

My son has ASD and when he was 3 he told kids at his preschool that if they didn't stop whatever it was they were doing he was going to bomb their houses.

 

He got that from TV.  He saw the news.  It was just after 9/11.

 

I was horrified and the school made a HUGE deal about it.  We had no idea at the time he had special needs.  We didn't know until years later.  I wish we had known earlier.

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My NT, usually very sweet almost five year old says this sort of thing. She has a vivid imagination and thinks it's either a huge insult or is funny. I remind her to only say nice things, but it's a learning process. I wouldn't(and don't) freak out if she said this.

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My kid at 3yo said some "funny" things too - like once, angry at her teacher, she stated "my grandpa has a gun."  I didn't tell my kid it was funny; I talked to her about respecting her teacher.  But my dad and I had a good laugh about it later.  :)

 

At 5yo perhaps one expects the child to know not to use such violent language.  I'm really not sure whether that is age-typical or immature; I don't have a 5yo boy to compare to.  I also can't tell whether he was trying to be funny or really scare the other person.

 

My kids have told me some things said in school even now (5th grade) that are hyperbolic like that.  I laugh right out at them, because obviously their 5th grade classmates are not serious.  At some point silly is just silly.

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A couple days ago I happened to be the only adult observing a large group of neighborhood boys from a distance. They were probably all 4-10 years old. At least half of them shouted: "I'm going home to get my gun/knife/bomb!" at some point. Little kids say lots of things. Some have the social savvy to keep it away from their parents' ears.

 

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My spectrum kid used to threaten to "blow up your car!" "blow up your whole house!" He just had big feelings he couldn't put into words.

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Well IDK if he's trying to be silly. He's not generally a nice kid.

 

And his mom knows this. His teacher sent home a note. Both parents laughed and thought it was funny; made the comment that "apparently it's not ok to say this to another student," when they shared it in a group text thread that included my daughter.

 

I really thought laughing was a terrible reaction because I don't find it remotely funny, especially coming from a kid who is often very rude, but clearly I'm in the minority on that.

 

This kid has gotten in trouble for bullying at school a few times, and he very much bullies my grandkids, who always wind up crying because of mean things he says to them.

 

 

 

As others have pointed out, my reaction is ENTIRELY context dependent.  My 5yo probably wouldn't go quite so far as the eyeballs on fire, but I could see her threatening to throw a sibling into a volcano.  HOWEVER, I have never heard her make a silly threat like that in a mean way.  It is always in the context of mutual teasing, and always in a silly-happy way.  So for me personally, in the context of how my 5 year old might say that (to a sibling, not to a friend), I'd laugh.  If she said it to a non-sibling, I'd probably tell her it was inappropriate, because not all families allow that sort of "lighthearted" banter.  

 

If a child who is often mean said it in a mean way to one of my kids, I'd be mad about it, but probably not call-the-teacher mad.  

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I should add that I'm not a fan of "laugh about naughty behavior on facebook" parenting. If it were my kid, who has ASD, we'd be talking about social context, watching less TV (not that he sees much of it anyway), naming our emotions, etc. This would all be general background stuff. I wouldn't make a fuss about a single incident other than to say "hey, I don't like that language. Please try again." I'd laugh about it with DH later that night, and share it with my friend with boys this age, and she'd probably have an even bigger whopper to tell me!

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I think I'd try not to overreact. At this age, we're still trying to teach kids to "use their words". But then when they do, we tell them no, those are the wrong words! It's tough for them! They're still learning!

 

So a very low-key, "Kiddo, you know that wasn't a very nice way to say that you were angry. Next time, it might be better to say 'I'm angry, and I don't like that' rather than to pull out the volcanoes" is appropriate. (And yes, I've heard similarly violent and elaborate statements from four, five, and six year olds. It's pretty common, even if you've never heard it.)

 

And then, yes, I'd probably snicker about it in private, though I'd keep a straight face on around the kids.

 

I'm more concerned about the fact that you've labeled a five year old child a "jerk" and "not nice" and "difficult to like". He is five. It's a tough age.

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A five year old is not a "jerk" or a rude child (yet!). He is little, he might not know how to express his feelings in words and he might need better role models to learn from. And even though my child would not say such things, I would not be surprised if I heard such things from a 5 year old boy - I heard one frustrated 5 year old tell his friend that he wished that "Great balls of fire would rain on top of his friend's head while an angry T-Rex chased him in a middle of a raging tornado". That was a pretty creative way to express frustration - though I told him to not wish such terrible things on his friend, I could not help but laugh at the ridiculousness of it all.

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Not knowing anything else about him, I'd assume he was not really thinking about its meaning too much, while at the some time was wanting to say something mean.  So, I wouldn't laugh, not even to myself.  I would talk to him about what he said and why it isn't a nice thing to say to someone.  By that incident alone, I wouldn't think he had any deep problem, but it does seem a little unusual to me.

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WWYD? And no, not my grandchild, but it's their cousin on the other side of the family and he's kind of a little jerk; says rude things to my grandkids almost every time they're together.

 

He got a note at school for telling another kid he was going to, "throw him in a volcano, pull him out, and then light his eyeballs on fire."

 

What would you think if your kid said this? Would you laugh? Would it concern you? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

 

If my own kid said something like that, I would be appalled, and there would be consequences to pay (starting with a good lecture and progressing to loss of privileges depending on the circumstances).  I don't care how old they are, talk of violence is not acceptable from my kid.  Period.

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I would find it funny. I do have 3 boys but my daughter can dish it out just as well!

But we are a macabre, sarcastic humour kind of family. I quite regularly threaten to make a misbehaving child into soup! (usually followed by a giggle and cuddle - laughter is a great de-escalator)

 

Of course we would do the 'that's not nice, speak kindly, people don't stay friends with mean people' et al talk. But I would not be panicking.

 

I too find it disturbing that this 5 year old child is labelled as the naughty, 'hard to like' kid. I find it sad that the labelling is within the family. Thank goodness that my family still loves and spends tme with my sometimes-off-the-wall, work-in-progress kids...

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