Waking grumpy, moody teens in the morning?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

DD14 doesn't like to sleep late in the morning, so she asks me to get her up by 9:30 at the latest--often earlier. When I try to but don't get forceful, she just goes back to sleep and then is upset that she overslept. When I do get forceful (in either an annoyed or a cheerful manner), she gets mad and yells at me and then doesn't want to get out of bed, and her day is all started off on the wrong foot and that carries through the morning. 

 

I've tried to tell her that she's on her own with getting up, but she gets upset and says she can't do it, I have to help her. I've tried telling her she has to go to bed before 1 a.m., but she really just isn't tired before then. I've tried telling her that she can just sleep however late she wants, but then that has us doing schoolwork until dinnertime, and that doesn't work for a million reasons. I've tried waking her once and then letting her deal with the fallout, but she has a tendency toward depression, and when she oversleeps she starts to beat herself up and ends up getting very down, which we don't want to see since she has a hard time working her way back from that. 

 

So... I'm stuck. I got yelled at again this morning, and it's making me feel very unpleasant. I do remember being this way as a teen, and I got annoyed when my mom woke me forcefully, but then she got to leave for work and I was someone else's attitude problem for the day. Obviously, as a homeschooling mom, I get to take the beating for the wake-up and then I also get to deal with the snit for hours too  :glare:

 

Please tell me there's some magic solution to this? I'm getting very tired of the roller coaster.

Edited March 6, 2017 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[egao_gakari]

I remember reading in Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Kids that preteens and teenagers' circadian rhythms get all messed up due to hormonal changes, so that they start not being able to sleep before midnight or later. The writer of that book recommends taking 2 weeks to "reset" the circadian rhythm by each night pushing them to stay up 2 hours later, then sleeping until they wake up naturally. You do that until they have worked their way all around the clock to getting sleepy at 9 pm ish, then set a standard bedtime and wake-up time with alarm clock and don't let them sleep in even on the weekend. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm contemplating doing so with our DS since he is increasingly grumpy and sluggish when waking up.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Eh I just let it roll of my back.  My kid does the same.  "Good Morning sweetheart!!!!  How are you this morning!!!"  Go away....leave me alone.....grrrrrr...  "I love you too...time to get up...isn't it a beautifulllllll morning?!!!!"

 

hahahaha.....

 

His reactions crack me up. 

[maize]

Get her a loud and obnoxious alarm clock, put it across the room where she has to get out of bed to turn it off.

 

And make it 100% her responsibility to get out of bed. From now on, you will not wake her up; tell her if she wants to be treated like a small child who cannot take responsibility for themself that has to be across the board, including going to bed at 8:00 PM like a small child, having only the privileges (electronics etc.) of a small child, and maybe even needing mommy to come in to wipe her bum like a small child. If she wants to be treated like a maturing young adult she needs to behave like one.

 

If she gets out of bed and goes straight to shower it will wake her up.

 

(I am assuming here that this is not a child struggling with depression or other issues that make self care difficult. If she has mental health or significant executive function issues then more supports may be necessary).

Edited March 6, 2017 by maize

[HomeAgain]

If I have to wake up my kid, I sing.  And I'm nearly tone deaf so it makes for very enthusiastic belting with little music behind it.

 

:lol:

 

My teen solved his problem by putting his alarm clock on a high shelf across his room.  He sets two alarms, just in case he tries to go back to sleep after the first one.  The effort of having to walk and stretch does usually wake him up enough to deal with a new day, though.

[Storygirl]

Does she have an alarm clock?

 

We do wake our kids in the morning. We have to, because the girls leave the house at 7:20 and the boys leave at 7:35 for school. My kids have alarm clocks, but we haven't made sure that they use them regularly. It's something we need to work on.

 

We have some extreme grumpiness here, too, in the mornings. And, as a night owl, I am up until midnight or 1:00 most nights, even though I have to be out of bed by 6:30 am. I know I need more sleep, but I can't get myself to bed earlier. I think it's not an uncommon problem, but it is worth working on, so that she doesn't end up like me and still struggle with it later in life.

 

At times in my life when I was more able to get to bed at a reasonable time, I was always still tired and grouchy in the morning. I am always more tired in the morning than at bedtime, no matter how many hours of sleep I have gotten. Every morning of every day of my life, getting up has been difficult.

 

Somehow, people like me and your daughter need to make ourselves go to bed on time, because it is best, not because we want to. Just as we do other things to stay healthy, even though we would rather not.

 

Is she willing to discuss this with you at a time of day when she is not tired? Can the two of you list the benefits of more sleep and the drawbacks of the current situation (let her list them)? Can you help her develop some strategies she will be willing to try? She needs to be involved in working on the solution. She needs to have ownership, or the solutions won't stick.

[maize]

Oh, I went back and re-read the OP and saw this child does struggle with depression. That changes things significantly.

 

Mmm. I don't think a 1 AM bedtime is healthy for a kid with depression trouble; while it is true that adolescent brains naturally reset to a later sleep/wake cycle 11:00 PM would be entirely reasonable and likely healthier. You might try egao_gakari's suggestion for resetting the clock. Early sleep has a different impact from late sleep on the brain, from everything I have read. 

 

 

[maize]

Here are a few resources on healthy sleep and overcoming sleep inertia (grogginess and grumpiness in the morning). Maybe go through some of these with your daughter and have her commit to trying a few of the suggestions?

 

https://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-topics/teens-and-sleep

 

http://sleepcenter.ucla.edu/sleep-and-teens

 

http://www.wikihow.com/Wake-up-in-a-Good-Mood

 

http://www.byrdie.com/what-supplements-do-i-need-amazon

[AK_Mom4]

Doing the reset thing around the clock really does work. DS21 has to do this about every three months. Her basically stays up most of the night the first night, then sleeps until he naturally wakes up. Same thing on day two - stay up as long as possible, then sleep until he wakes. Day three he is usually going to bed about 8pm and then wakes up naturally around 7am. He can then usually hold the normal day-night cycle for a few months until he starts having trouble sleeping again and has to do a reset. He jokes that he lives on a 26-hour day, but honestly I think that's not far off....

 

He has some depression he fights. A loud alarm clock makes it worse. He has had best results from some phone app he has that does a gradual wake-up over the course of thirty minutes. I think you can buy these in alarm clocks now as well.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Mmm. I don't think a 1 AM bedtime is healthy for a kid with depression trouble; while it is true that adolescent brains naturally reset to a later sleep/wake cycle 11:00 PM would be entirely reasonable and likely healthier. You might try egao_gakari's suggestion for resetting the clock. Early sleep has a different impact from late sleep on the brain, from everything I have read. 

 

 

I totally agree with you, but I don't know how to accomplish it without a major fight. And she's told me that the times that she's tried to go to bed earlier, she's ended up just laying in bed tossing and turning until 12:30 anyway. How hard would you come down on a teen to make her go to bed earlier? I could strong-arm her, but she will not be terribly happy with me. 

 

I've also suggested the clock-resetting option, actually, though I didn't know it was an expert-recommended thing. She's not into it. She's a night owl, unfortunately, as am I (and unlike DH and DD11). 

 

I'm just not sure how hard to push on this stuff anymore. When I do, it ends up being such a conflict that I'm not sure it's worth the damage to her (barely) burgeoning independence (which I'm trying hard to foster!) and our relationship. But I do think it's a health issue, really.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have the same bedtime fights flipflop.  Doesn't do crap.  LOL

 

I guess I just show a LOT of grace in this area.  I don't like that he gets like that, but he isn't in general a pain so I just let it go.

 

 

[maize]

I totally agree with you, but I don't know how to accomplish it without a major fight. And she's told me that the times that she's tried to go to bed earlier, she's ended up just laying in bed tossing and turning until 12:30 anyway. How hard would you come down on a teen to make her go to bed earlier? I could strong-arm her, but she will not be terribly happy with me. 

 

I've also suggested the clock-resetting option, actually, though I didn't know it was an expert-recommended thing. She's not into it. She's a night owl, unfortunately, as am I (and unlike DH and DD11). 

 

I'm just not sure how hard to push on this stuff anymore. When I do, it ends up being such a conflict that I'm not sure it's worth the damage to her (barely) burgeoning independence (which I'm trying hard to foster!) and our relationship. But I do think it's a health issue, really.

 

You suggested the option where she go to sleep 2 hours later each day as if moving around the world two time zones at a time? Seems that would appeal to a night owl as she gets to stay up even later than usual...until things are reset.

 

Where mental health is fragile things do become very tricky. Could you possibly find a sleep specialist to evaluate/talk with her? Maybe do a sleep study? 

 

Getting a professional on your side to do the counseling and encourage changes could help.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

You suggested the option where she go to sleep 2 hours later each day as if moving around the world two time zones at a time? Seems that would appeal to a night owl as she gets to stay up even later than usual...until things are reset.

 

Where mental health is fragile things do become very tricky. Could you possibly find a sleep specialist to evaluate/talk with her? Maybe do a sleep study? 

 

Getting a professional on your side to do the counseling and encourage changes could help.

 

 

Believe it or not, yes. Not exactly by two hours, but simply staying up later each night until she's tired and then sleeping until she woke naturally the next day, and continuing to roll that forward until the natural wake time is where she wants it to be. I suggested it because I remember basically doing it accidentally during summer vacations in college :lol: Maybe I'll bring it up again. 

 

Professionals have spoken about it with her (briefly), but I think everyone pretty much throws up their hands at the teen sleep cycle. I really do remember the same problems as a teen, especially as a night owl, but again, it was not my mother's all-day problem. I was annoyed with her but cheerful again by the time I got to school, and then by nighttime I was over it. We homeschoolers don't have that option, unfortunately, as I get to be the target all day long. 

 

She just got up. It's 11:25. She's in a decent mood, actually, but it may come back to bite us later since we're starting schoolwork so late that it means there are things she won't be able to do later, and that will bring her mood down. Argh.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I remember reading in Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Kids that preteens and teenagers' circadian rhythms get all messed up due to hormonal changes, so that they start not being able to sleep before midnight or later. The writer of that book recommends taking 2 weeks to "reset" the circadian rhythm by each night pushing them to stay up 2 hours later, then sleeping until they wake up naturally. You do that until they have worked their way all around the clock to getting sleepy at 9 pm ish, then set a standard bedtime and wake-up time with alarm clock and don't let them sleep in even on the weekend. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm contemplating doing so with our DS since he is increasingly grumpy and sluggish when waking up.

 

Thanks, I may bring this up again to her. The problem is when to do it, since we have weekly commitments and then family visiting for a week soon!

 

Eh I just let it roll of my back.  My kid does the same.  "Good Morning sweetheart!!!!  How are you this morning!!!"  Go away....leave me alone.....grrrrrr...  "I love you too...time to get up...isn't it a beautifulllllll morning?!!!!"

 

hahahaha.....

 

His reactions crack me up. 

 

You know, I have let it roll off my back for a long time, but because the "starting the day in a bad mood" thing carries forward through the day, it seems like we need to have a better solution. And I REALLY didn't like getting yelled at this morning. My mornings are already hard--I don't need to carry everyone else's hard mornings too!

 

If I have to wake up my kid, I sing.  And I'm nearly tone deaf so it makes for very enthusiastic belting with little music behind it.

 

:lol:

 

My teen solved his problem by putting his alarm clock on a high shelf across his room.  He sets two alarms, just in case he tries to go back to sleep after the first one.  The effort of having to walk and stretch does usually wake him up enough to deal with a new day, though.

 

:lol: I have vivid (and very negative) memories of my mom singing "Oh, how I hate to get up in the morning!" to me on days when I was grumpy about waking up. I can't bring myself to sing to her because of it!

 

She uses her phone as an alarm clock, and it's right next to her bed. I'll suggest moving it. Or actually, maybe I'll give her my morning sun alarm clock!

 

Does she have an alarm clock?

 

We do wake our kids in the morning. We have to, because the girls leave the house at 7:20 and the boys leave at 7:35 for school. My kids have alarm clocks, but we haven't made sure that they use them regularly. It's something we need to work on.

 

We have some extreme grumpiness here, too, in the mornings. And, as a night owl, I am up until midnight or 1:00 most nights, even though I have to be out of bed by 6:30 am. I know I need more sleep, but I can't get myself to bed earlier. I think it's not an uncommon problem, but it is worth working on, so that she doesn't end up like me and still struggle with it later in life.

 

At times in my life when I was more able to get to bed at a reasonable time, I was always still tired and grouchy in the morning. I am always more tired in the morning than at bedtime, no matter how many hours of sleep I have gotten. Every morning of every day of my life, getting up has been difficult.

 

Somehow, people like me and your daughter need to make ourselves go to bed on time, because it is best, not because we want to. Just as we do other things to stay healthy, even though we would rather not.

 

Is she willing to discuss this with you at a time of day when she is not tired? Can the two of you list the benefits of more sleep and the drawbacks of the current situation (let her list them)? Can you help her develop some strategies she will be willing to try? She needs to be involved in working on the solution. She needs to have ownership, or the solutions won't stick.

 

My sleep patterns are like yours, and I just discovered (after testing with high morning blood sugars and a high A1C level) that sleep patterns like ours are a strong contributor to insulin resistance and the development of type 2 diabetes. So much for my "I'll sleep when I'm dead" mentality! So yeah, I'm definitely not setting a good example. 

 

Doing the reset thing around the clock really does work. DS21 has to do this about every three months. Her basically stays up most of the night the first night, then sleeps until he naturally wakes up. Same thing on day two - stay up as long as possible, then sleep until he wakes. Day three he is usually going to bed about 8pm and then wakes up naturally around 7am. He can then usually hold the normal day-night cycle for a few months until he starts having trouble sleeping again and has to do a reset. He jokes that he lives on a 26-hour day, but honestly I think that's not far off....

 

He has some depression he fights. A loud alarm clock makes it worse. He has had best results from some phone app he has that does a gradual wake-up over the course of thirty minutes. I think you can buy these in alarm clocks now as well.

 

 

I've said the exact same thing! It's a real fight for me to work on a 24-hour schedule. It doesn't really surprise me that she's this way--I can totally empathize. 

[AK_Mom4]

On the school work thing - night owls have a natural second (or third) wind at 10pm ish. Take advantage of that and start having her plan to do some school work then. Sounds like you are up then anyways and yeah - I know it prolly means giving up some of your evening downtime, but it pays to be productive when their brains are functioning best IFKWIM.

 

DS21 does stats homework after 10pm some nights. Wow! My brain is pretty dead, but he is up and running strong then.

Edited March 6, 2017 by AK_Mom4

[Lady Marmalade]

Has she tried taking melatonin at all to help get to sleep earlier?  That might be a more gentle way to adjust the falling asleep time- versus going all the way around the clock. 

 

When my teens have trouble sleeping, they take one melatonin gummy and it really seems to help.  An adult dose is two gummies, so they're really only taking half a dose.  To reset a sleep cycle, she would probably need to take it every day for up to a week, but it might help.

 

Also, I'm sure you know this, but it bears repeating, screen time at night really messes with the sleep cycle.  If she absolutely must be on an electronic device after dark, make sure she is using it in a blue-screen mode so it doesn't affect her sleep.

[Garga]

She might need 10 hours of sleep. I didn't read carefully, but is there a way to start creating a schedule of 1:00 - 11:00 a.m. for sleeping? 8.5 hours might not be enough for a teenager. They often need 9 or 10 hours of sleep. It sounds like the 9:30 wake time is smack in the middle of a deep episode of sleep. Sleep goes in cycles. Light stage, heavy stage, light stage, heavy stage. If you wake during a light stage, you can get up pretty easily. If you wake during a heavy stage, it's torture to try to wake up. What happens if you wake her up at 10? Thirty more minutes of sleep should have her coming out of a heavy sleep cycle and into a lighter one (I think..you might want to research it.)

 

If it was my family, I'd be trying the idea of pushing the sleeping time forward every two hours first. And then if that didn't work, and there was no way around the 1:00 bedtime, then I'd try letting her sleep until 11.

 

The last resort would be getting up promptly at a set time in the morning, and then have her go to bed 15 minutes earlier over a looong period of time. So, 12:45 for a week. Then 12:30 for a week. Then 12:00 for a week. I don't know if that would work, but that would be something I'd try, until she was back to where she could get 10 hours of sleep.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Has she tried taking melatonin at all to help get to sleep earlier?  That might be a more gentle way to adjust the falling asleep time- versus going all the way around the clock. 

 

When my teens have trouble sleeping, they take one melatonin gummy and it really seems to help.  An adult dose is two gummies, so they're really only taking half a dose.  To reset a sleep cycle, she would probably need to take it every day for up to a week, but it might help.

 

Also, I'm sure you know this, but it bears repeating, screen time at night really messes with the sleep cycle.  If she absolutely must be on an electronic device after dark, make sure she is using it in a blue-screen mode so it doesn't affect her sleep.

 

 

She has tried melatonin and it gave her nightmares (it gives me crazy, vivid dreams too), so she won't try it again. And the electronic devices, ugh. If it was up to me I'd smash every device in this house. I'll remind her again, and we'll see if we can figure out how to put it into blue light mode. Thanks for the reminder.

[Garga]

Oh, I just noticed that she wants to be woken at 9:30 and often earlier. That means she's waking at different times each day. That will mess with a sleep schedule.

 

Same wake time, same bed time every single day--weekends included. Don't mess with the sleep schedule.

 

No blue lights before bed.

 

Strong bedtime routine to signal to the body to slow down.

 

Warm milk.

 

No caffeine late (unless she's adhd, and then caffeine can help calm her thoughts.)

 

Have you tried all those sorts of things? There's a longer list of all the different things to do to help with sleeping. Have you tried the routine stuff?

 

I wear earplugs. That helps me to get to sleep.

 

Right now my struggle is with temperature. Too cold, and I can't fall into a deep sleep and I'm up all night--takes me a long time to fall asleep if I'm too cold. Too hot, and I'm sweaty and up all night.

[Alice]

Teen sleep issues are probably the #1 issue I hear about at that age as a pediatrician. I have recommended the sleep reset routine as mentioned earlier, although it's only practical for kids in school if it's a holiday. 

 

The other way to do it is to reset the bedtime each night by 15 min. So if she is currently falling asleep at 1:00, go to bed at 12:45, and try and get up 15 min earlier. Go backwards by 15 min at a time every 2-3 days until you are at the bedtime and wake-up times desired. 

 

Never lie in bed trying to fall asleep for more than about 20 min. Sleep is so habitual that if you lie there thinking "I never falls asleep until X time" then you won't fall asleep. If they can't fall asleep after about 20 min, get up and do something quiet in the room. Read a book, etc. But not anything with screens. 

 

Only sleep in bed. Don't read in bed, watch TV, etc. Get a chair to do those things in your room. It's like with a baby that you are sleep-training. You want your subconscious brain to think "when I get in bed it's time to sleep." 

 

Two things that are probably the most important but that get the biggest groans and I think rarely get followed: 

 

*No screens of any kind for an hour before bedtime. If they have to do it, do the blue-screen mode but I'm not a big believer that the blue-screen mode makes a huge difference based on kids I've seen. Or maybe it's just that using screens tends to keep your mind working and isn't restful. I tell them to try and save non-screen homework for closer to bedtime (reading a book, etc). 

 

*You have to maintain your desired bedtime and wake-up time on weekends. Don't vary by more than 1 hour. So no sleeping in or going to bed late. The example I've heard from sleep experts is that sleeping in/staying up late on weekends creates a perpetual state of jet-lag. If your body naturally wants to go to bed at 1:00 and you let it do that on Fri and Sat...it's that  much tougher on Sun and Mon to fall asleep when you need to. 

 

I'm naturally a night-owl so I do get it. But I've had to get up early for the past 13 years for my work schedule. If I let myself sleep in or stay up late, I find it very easy to start drifting back to my natural night-owl times. I also find that if I get in bed around 10:00 I can fall asleep relatively easily. If I let myself stay up a little later, I start to feel energized and think I can stay up much later than I should. 

 

I'll also add that I think having an alternative sleep schedule is ok for a homeschooled teen....if it's working for the family. So if a kid is going to bed at 1:00 and getting up at 10:00 and it works for the family, I see no harm in that. But it sounds like it's not working for you all. 

[Katy]

dp

Edited March 6, 2017 by Katy

[Katy]

If she's going to bed at 1 and wants up at 9:30 or earlier but can't wake up without the grumps she needs more sleep than that.  If she wants to get up earlier, she needs to go to bed earlier.

 

Most sleep cycles are about 90 minutes, but the go in groups of two.  So if she wants to be up by 9, she needs to be asleep by midnight.  How long does she stay in bed until she's asleep?  20 minutes?  Then she needs to  be in bed by 11:30 to get up at 9.  Some teens require 10-11 hours of sleep, so this might need adjusting, but that's where I'd tell her to start. 

 

If she's noticed that she cannot sleep even if she shuts of the lights at midnight, she might find that she needs to go to bed earlier. Again, work with the 3 hour time cycle thing.  If she naturally goes to sleep at 1, have her try 3 hours earlier - which means being in bed by 10:30!  FTR, I've been like this since high school.  If I'm not out by 10:30, I'm very likely to be up until 1 or 2 in the morning unless I'm VERY sleep deprived.

 

And have her pick out an alarm clock and make it her responsibility.   We don't wake up kids here.

[Anne]

I think you've gotten great suggestions for your daughter.

 

I will add that I think that it is UNACCEPTABLE for her to yell at you in the morning. She certainly doesn't have to be Merry Sunshine or anything - but yelling is not okay. All her life she is going to have to function when she doesn't feel well (at least, that's been my reality...) and it's just not okay to take it out on other people like that.

 

Anne

[maize]

Maybe you could wear headphones with music or an audio book playing when you go to wake her up in the morning so that you can essentially ignore whatever grumpiness she throws out; might cut down on the grumping/yelling if the target is clearly oblivious :tongue_smilie:

[gardenmom5]

DD14 doesn't like to sleep late in the morning, so she asks me to get her up by 9:30 at the latest--often earlier. When I try to but don't get forceful, she just goes back to sleep and then is upset that she overslept. When I do get forceful (in either an annoyed or a cheerful manner), she gets mad and yells at me and then doesn't want to get out of bed, and her day is all started off on the wrong foot and that carries through the morning. 

 

I've tried to tell her that she's on her own with getting up, but she gets upset and says she can't do it, I have to help her. I've tried telling her she has to go to bed before 1 a.m., but she really just isn't tired before then. I've tried telling her that she can just sleep however late she wants, but then that has us doing schoolwork until dinnertime, and that doesn't work for a million reasons. I've tried waking her once and then letting her deal with the fallout, but she has a tendency toward depression, and when she oversleeps she starts to beat herself up and ends up getting very down, which we don't want to see since she has a hard time working her way back from that. 

 

So... I'm stuck. I got yelled at again this morning, and it's making me feel very unpleasant. I do remember being this way as a teen, and I got annoyed when my mom woke me forcefully, but then she got to leave for work and I was someone else's attitude problem for the day. Obviously, as a homeschooling mom, I get to take the beating for the wake-up and then I also get to deal with the snit for hours too  :glare:

 

Please tell me there's some magic solution to this? I'm getting very tired of the roller coaster.

 

 

Ok.  she's being ridiculous.  and a brat.  I wouldn't have tolerated it as long as you have.  I have four adults.

 

if she wants to stay up until the wee-small hours - she's on her own.  she needs to take responsibility.  if she's too wide awake - she needs to work on a bedtime routine. she needs to be OFF the computer and no screens in a dark room after 9pm.  (it triggers something in the eyes that affects sleep.)

 

she needs to be IN HER ROOM (with NO screen of any kind.) by 9pm.  tell her she can read a genuine paper book - no kindle.

then get her a really good alarm clock.    http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20506099,00.html

when I was a teen - I put my alarm clock across the room so I couldn't just hit the snooze button.

 

make sure she gets fresh air during the day.  evening yoga (20 - 25 minute practice) to help "shut down" could be helpful to going to sleep. 

 

or one of those clocks that goes flying around the room and doesn't shut up until you catch it and put it back.

 

 

[gardenmom5]

Oh, I went back and re-read the OP and saw this child does struggle with depression. That changes things significantly.

 

Mmm. I don't think a 1 AM bedtime is healthy for a kid with depression trouble; while it is true that adolescent brains naturally reset to a later sleep/wake cycle 11:00 PM would be entirely reasonable and likely healthier. You might try egao_gakari's suggestion for resetting the clock. Early sleep has a different impact from late sleep on the brain, from everything I have read. 

 

lack of sleep can 'cause' depression.  8hours of sleep for a 14 year old is not enough sleep.   this stage kids need more sleep than even a year or two previously.

[Peaceseeker]

Maybe you can leave some of her independent school work for after 9 pm (not anything she needs your help for though). I would probably let her sleep til 11, teach the bulk of her work early afternoon, and assign homework daily for the independent portion. She can choose to set an alarm and do it in the morning before you teach her around lunch, or she can do it after 9 pm when she is up anyways. It's a good age for them to begin to develop some habits and independence, with both school and waking up. It might take some work and scaffolding, but if she is a natural night owl she will probably use evenings in college to study anyways. So it might help her to learn how to use some of that time productively. I am a true night owl and some of my best thinking has always been done at night. I tried my best not to take a college class before 11 am either. Know thyself :)

Edited March 6, 2017 by CaliforniaDreaming

[TABmom]

An alarm clock that lights up might help. It turns on 30 minutes before it goes off and gradually gets lighter. Or you could open her blinds 20-30 minutes before you try to wake her up.

[SKL]

I would have her set 2 or more alarm clocks, in different parts of the room, that require her to get up out of bed before she can shut them off.  Set the alarms for different times so she has to get up out of bed at least 2 different times.  Then leave it up to her to get up or not.

 

Or, you could try what my mom did to me - throw a glass of cold water on her.  Oh wait, that didn't work either.  I'd just go back to sleep after the wet areas warmed up.  :P

 

What can I say, I'm not a morning person either.  :)

[Beth S]

Ok.  she's being ridiculous.  and a brat.  I wouldn't have tolerated it as long as you have.  I have four adults.

 

if she wants to stay up until the wee-small hours - she's on her own.  she needs to take responsibility.  if she's too wide awake - she needs to work on a bedtime routine. she needs to be OFF the computer and no screens in a dark room after 9pm.  (it triggers something in the eyes that affects sleep.)

 

she needs to be IN HER ROOM (with NO screen of any kind.) by 9pm.  tell her she can read a genuine paper book - no kindle.

 

I would guess that the late night screens are what keep her up late.  It's just too hard to resist at that age.

Yes, natural consequences to being unkind to your mom = you need to get more sleep, which means unwinding earlier in the evening, until you can be kind.

Adulthood is approaching, and her future boss & co-workers won't tolerate the grumpiness for long.

[maize]

One option for no screens but can't fall asleep yet is audio books. Both my kids and I like the audible app sleep timer for going to bed at night--you can set it for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, after which it turns off automatically. I lie in my bed with my eyes closed and listen to audiobooks--keeps my mind from racing or getting restless. For drifting off to sleep I prefer non fiction (fiction is more likely to engage me and keep me awake unless it is fiction that I find boring). I use the same trick for middle of the night insomnia.

[readinmom]

Dd has the same issues.  Sleeps in spurts most of the day, up late at night.  Her doctor is checking her hormone levels and we'll go from there.  It was definitely a contributing factor for bringing her home from school.  

 

I am a night owl, and so is ds.  Dh and other ds are early to bed, early to rise.  

 

I'll try the audio book suggestion, along with the adjusted sleep time.  

 

Hope things get better for you!

[Garga]

I agree with the poster above who said that sleep deprivation causes depression.  That happens to me very quickly.  

 

I also agree with the people posting that she may need to go to bed super early, so that she's asleep before the second wind hits at 10.  That also happens to me.  If I'm in bed by 10 or 10:30, I can sleep.  If I stay up late watching Netflix (happens a lot around here) past 10:30, I start feeling awake and end up staying up until 1:00.  

 

 

[Tammi K]

Have you tried a 'Zen' alarm clock?  It has a progressively longer, louder tone until it is steady.  My oldest reallyt needed this gradual wake-up to get a good start in the morning.

[gardenmom5]

I would guess that the late night screens are what keep her up late.  It's just too hard to resist at that age.

Yes, natural consequences to being unkind to your mom = you need to get more sleep, which means unwinding earlier in the evening, until you can be kind.

Adulthood is approaching, and her future boss & co-workers won't tolerate the grumpiness for long.

 

 

college  professors dont' tolerate it either.  especially if you overslept and missed your final . . .  the story of the student at my girls college who did that has made the rounds.  she was used to her father calling her and waking her up every day . . . . well - he didn't.

[Joker]

Mine are responsible for getting themselves up and they are in ps. They get up when their alarms go off or the natural consequence is being late for school (which they've never done). 

 

I will say not all teens need so much sleep though. Oldest could easily sleep 12+ hours a day. Youngest does best on 6 hours. Youngest seems to be exactly like I was at her age (15) and if I slept more than that I was tired all day. Oldest goes to bed at 10pm and is up at 6am. Youngest either goes to bed at 11pm and gets up at 5am or sleeps 12-6am. On the weekends oldest sleeps for at least 12 hours at a time but youngest stays at 6 hours (rarely 7). 

[fairfarmhand]

I would guess that the late night screens are what keep her up late.  It's just too hard to resist at that age.

Yes, natural consequences to being unkind to your mom = you need to get more sleep, which means unwinding earlier in the evening, until you can be kind.

Adulthood is approaching, and her future boss & co-workers won't tolerate the grumpiness for long.

 

Okay. This is not a waking up problem. This is a kindness problem.

 

NOBODY including mom and dad get free passes on hatefulness. No matter what time of day, you have to have basic kindness.

 

And that's what I'd frame it as with my teen.

 

She SHOULD NOT be blaming you for her late sleeping, her bad mood, or her moodiness if she doesn't get up on time.

 

That is on HER. You want to be a big kid girl? Take responsibility for yourself.

 

Apologize for being unkind to your mom.

 

Lest anyone fear I'm advocating a forced fake cheerfulness, I am not. But waking up quietly or alone is completely different from waking up unkindly and in a hateful mood.

 

Lay out the factors of the problem:

 

1. She wants to get schoolwork done by x o clock.

 

2. she doesn't want to sleep late because she wants to get school done.

 

3. She's tired in the morning.

 

4. You don't appreciate being treated badly in the morning.

 

Now let her solve the problem.

 

Tell her " I will not try to do someone a favor (waking her up) if you can't be kind." So, what's the solution to the problem.

 

Don't offer a solution. Let her figure it out. Tell her you're willing to help her, but the solution has to be hers.

 

If she sleeps late because she was up too late, then the consequence is late schoolwork. That's what big people do, accept responsibility for their actions.

 

By the way, since I am a teacher, I go off the clock at 3 or 4 pm. I don't want to be doing school during those hours, so she's going to have to figure out how to make her hours mesh with mine.

 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. We talked more about it yesterday and she decided that she wants to start trying to go to sleep at 11:00. I woke her at 8:15-8:30 this morning, she woke up pretty cheerfully, and now I'm prepared to insist she turn her lights off at 11 tonight, even if she's annoyed with me. 

 

She knows all the research on blue light/devices, regular sleep/wake times, etc. It's just a matter of her making the decision to act on that knowledge. Hopefully we can make some progress this time!

[MegP]

Saw this the other day--has some good ideas in it...http://faithit.com/stop-doing-8-things-teen-school-year-amy-carney/?utm_source=jbethke&utm_medium=facebook&utm_content=8-things-teen&utm_campaign=feb3-jbethke-teens

[FriedClams]

My kids have alarm clocks. I expect them to use them every day except weekends. They get up at 6:45 without my help. Then they start chores and walk the dogs. I think normal healthy teens should be able to get themselves out of bed on time without help. I'd raise the bar on your expectations and leave it to her to be up as ready to go without your help (or you to blame).

[maize]

My kids have alarm clocks. I expect them to use them every day except weekends. They get up at 6:45 without my help. Then they start chores and walk the dogs. I think normal healthy teens should be able to get themselves out of bed on time without help. I'd raise the bar on your expectations and leave it to her to be up as ready to go without your help (or you to blame).

Normal, healthy teens.

 

Teens with fragile mental health like OP's can be a different world entirely; tough love in such circumstances can backfire badly.

 

Parenting with mental health challenges in the mix is never, ever straightforward.

[sassenach]

I think the solution is insisting that this is not your responsibility.

 

Even if she begs you, it's not your job to get her up. Tell her you'll buy any alarm she picks out on Amazon, but she's on her own to actually get out of bed.

 

Also, she's responsible for her own attitude. If she wakes up late and grumpy, it's still her job to be kind to the family.

 

Growing up is hard.

[parisa]

Some people are deeply, terminally grouchy in the morning — no one disputes this fact. But if you’re “not a morning person,†as such moodiness is often more delicately referred to, is this actually meaningful in some way? Does it say anything about the quality of your sleep? Or your life?

Grouchiness, however long it lasts, is associated with the “sleep inertia“ phase — a transitional period of grogginess that typically lasts between five and 20 minutes after a person first wakes, though it can go on for some time longer, according to Allison G. Harvey, Ph.D, professor of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley and director of the Golden Bear Sleep and Mood Research Clinic.

“The process of waking up is slow — not like a light switch, much slower,†Harvey says. “These feelings are not pleasant, but do not necessarily indicate having had a poor night of sleep.â€

Why some people are able to cheerfully adjoin their sleep inertia phase with the rest of their day is much more individualized and specific. Grouchiness could be associated with not getting enough rest and being tired, but it could also be be symptomatic of having a bad attitude about the day.

“I would be curious if it happens every morning, or only Monday through Friday. If it is only [those days], I would guess that it is either because you aren’t getting enough sleep, and being woken up by your alarm clock when you are still really tired can make your grumpy, or if it is because you aren’t looking forward to going to work,†says Alice D. Domar, Ph.D., executive director of the Domar Center for Mind/Body Health.

While not having much to look forward to could be a sign of depression — a chemical inability to see what’s beautiful about the day ahead — that’s not usually the issue, Domar explains. “For most people though, morning grumpiness is simply a symptom of our over-scheduled life, with too little sleep and not enough things that bring us joy on a day to day basis,†she says.

from : https://goo.gl/0GyBrG