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Secular books on marriage? or how to pick a counselor?


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++Per board rules....I don't want marriage advice, just book or counselor advice please. ++

 

Dh and I have been headed steadily for divorce for many years now.  We have been together since we were 18yo, and have been married 23 years. We have never been the type to fight and still get along ok. For the past several years, we have lived together as amicable roommates.   I didn't want to split up our family until dd18 graduated high school and we are at that point now.  

 

He has always refused to talk about his feelings and completely shuts down anytime an uncomfortable situation is brought up.  Due to this, over the years, I stopped trying to talk to him and to repair little things along the way. A switch was flipped this week and he has finally started talking. He and I have finally, talked very bluntly about our marriage and I feel there was finally some honesty and openness that could be pivotal for a reconciliation.  I just don't know if I want to go down that path and open up old wounds again.  A week ago, I was ready to sign papers and to happily walk away. Now I am wondering 'what if".

 

I work outside the home and we have way more assets than debt, so we can split and survive financially.

 

 

I need some help thinking things through.  Either a book or counselor to help me flush out my feelings and see parts of this that I can't right now.   

 

I was looking for counselors (for myself) on my insurance web site last night, but feel like I would be blindly picking one.  I try looking at their personal websites but still feel uneasy.  I have years of experience with counseling for my daughters, but never for myself.  It is odd that it is harder to find someone for myself, than them. LOL I have one friend who went to a marriage counselor and will ask her if she has a recommendation, but other than her, I don't have anyone to ask.  

 

A book would be good also, just so I can think about things at convenient times vs. appointment times.  I do not want a book that tells me to pray and what Gods will is. Slight religious leanings are fine, but I don't want it to be the tone of the entire book. 

 

Any suggestions for a book to help me think things through... or how to pick a counselor for myself?  Another book recommendation I would like, is one to to work though with my husband if we decide to stay together.  We will need some guided help to repair our marriage, but since he is so shy about his feelings I don't think he will be as open to talking, if another person is in the room. 

 

(I am on the Washington side of the boarder outside Portland Or, if you have any specific people recommendations.)

Edited by Tap
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Book recommendations if you decide to stay together:

 

How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It (my DH recommends this book to his guys at work) Both parties need to read it.

 

The Five Love Languages

 

I can't help with counselor suggestions or how to negotiate a split. I'm sure others with experience can help with that.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I wish you peace with whatever decision you make.

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We saw a counselor in the Portland area that was really amazing, but he is $300 a session. Our church paid for it because we were very important to that church and they didn't want us to split up, lol. He was a pastor, but his counseling was not religious at all. I am trying to remember his last name. I remember how good he was at getting to the real issue by drawing charts on a huge white board in his office. We had two sessions with him that were probably enough right there because he helps put everything in perspective so that you have fresh compassion for the other person. Its been seven years since we had ten sessions with him and we are better than ever. If you are willing to go to Portland I can probably get his last name.

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I think with therapists you just have to start trying and be prepared to switch. I know many therapists that haven't been a good fit for me lol

 

This is what I did, too.  Somehow, I just 'knew' when I'd found the right one.

 

 

 

No books.  Never found them helpful.  Sorry.   

 

And, Tap, I was just thinking of you the other day.  This is wonderful news for you and your dh.  I hope it works out.   :grouphug:

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You could try something by the Gottman's. I haven't read any of their books but I have gained a lot from their website.

 

Www.gottman.com

 

Eta: :grouphug:

 

Yep, I was going to recommend Gottman's The Seven Principles For Making Marriage Work. I find myself using principles from it all the time. I don't think Hubby ever bothered to read it, but he went along with it when I wanted to do the exercises from it together, and he got a lot out of the exercises even without reading the book.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  for what must be a very complicated set of emotions.

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When I saw a counselor, I asked my physician who she would recommend for me. She gave me a few names, suggested one as a good fit and it was. 

 

Also, psychologytoday.com is a great resource! Counselors have their biography and which insurances they take up on there. DH gets a good number of referrals from it too. 

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Wow, I wonder triggered the change in him but I am glad something did and you guys may get another chance at a better marriage.

You have already received book rec's - haven't read all of them but "Boundaries in Marriage" may also be helpful. Written by Christian psychologists (with doctorates) but not preachy. They are definitely not the kind who say "pray" and all will be well.

 

I definitely think you are right in seeking counseling. I would check out several websites of counselors in practice in your area. Something they say on their site could speak to you. But also be prepared to re-evaluate how it's going after the 3rd or 4th session. If neither of you feel there is a rapport, you may have to change. Don't be shy or afraid. This is the same as finding the right doctor for an illness.

New Life Live will refer you to a counselor in your area if you want to go this route: http://newlife.com/counselors/. These are typically vetted through their system, licensed, have certain specializations etc., but they are typically Christian. Most will not cram bible verses down your throat and are fine with counseling on a secular basis if the client desires it, however the recommendation to evaluate after a few sessions remains valid in all situations.

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As for finding a good therapist, trial and error is the only thing that works well for us. Maybe you and your husband could agree to set up appointments with 3 different therapists and then discuss which if any of them is a good fit?

 

My own Dh responds better to male therapists.

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The Gottmans have books but also train marriage therapists. It's likely that there's a Gottman trained therapist in your area.

 

My husband and I have benefited greatly from attending two marriage workshops with them but they are based in our city and I am not sure if they have workshops in other states very often.

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Yes, putting things in context makes them no longer hurtful and personal so that you can take ownership of your own bad behavior and let go of hurtful things the other person has done. Without that ability it is impossible to move forward, IMO. The marriage counselor that we saw years ago diagrammed our family patterns from generations on a big whiteboard and and right away we were seeing that some of our behavior was learned, and not meant to hurt the other person. That helps the kindness quotient right there.

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It sounds like you have waited until your husband was ready. This is highly commendable. I would make sure he is actually ready to come to the table about the marriage. In my life, when husband and I saw a counselor it was extremely hurtful. Dh thought, and I really believe wanted, to be ready to work on things, but he wasn't. Everything was great in the office, but when it came right down to doing the work at home he attacked my vulnerability. He wasn't ready.

 

All that to say, I would not jump right in to a counselor until both of you are committed to the messy process of making it work. Some counselors also do a thing where each person comes in separately, then two sessions together. That would have been extremely beneficial for us. I could have voiced my feelings of being attacked and it could have been worked on without Dh feeling threatened.

 

ETA: I have found that personal therapy has helped me a lot. I do not know if I can say it has directly helped our marriage (I have gained a lot more confidence and I don't think Dh necessarily likes that), but I can now step back and see a situation before being completely all in emotionally. Because when you are completely emotionally caught up, you make the best decisions!

Edited by EndOfOrdinary
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I've heard good things about CBT in this regard.  The theory is that you don't have to delve through your whole head and heart, mostly you have to start treating each other better, in specific ways that they suggest so you can practice them, and then you add another one, etc.  And before long you're happy.  (That's a summary, and it's of what I've heard--I've never done this myself, but it sounds appealing.)

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It sounds like you have waited until your husband was ready. This is highly commendable. I would make sure he is actually ready to come to the table about the marriage. In my life, when husband and I saw a counselor it was extremely hurtful. Dh thought, and I really believe wanted, to be ready to work on things, but he wasn't. Everything was great in the office, but when it came right down to doing the work at home he attacked my vulnerability. He wasn't ready.

 

All that to say, I would not jump right in to a counselor until both of you are committed to the messy process of making it work. Some counselors also do a thing where each person comes in separately, then two sessions together. That would have been extremely beneficial for us. I could have voiced my feelings of being attacked and it could have been worked on without Dh feeling threatened.

 

ETA: I have found that personal therapy has helped me a lot. I do not know if I can say it has directly helped our marriage (I have gained a lot more confidence and I don't think Dh necessarily likes that), but I can now step back and see a situation before being completely all in emotionally. Because when you are completely emotionally caught up, you make the best decisions!

This is a good point. It's possible DH needs some personal therapy first.

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I asked my primary care physician and he gave me a couple of names off the list I printed out from my insurance website.

 

Also, I tend to pre judge therapists by their staff. If I'm finally calling for help for myself, the last thing I want to deal with is witchy staff who keep putting me on hold.

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I think you've been given plenty of great recommendations above, but for your husband I might consider No More Mr Nice Guy.  It's controversial and off putting in a few places, but it basically addresses the problem with men who pretend to be nice but actually never talk about their feelings or what they want and the way that tends to create passive-aggressive behavior and manipulations that are anything but nice,  because men like this tend to have trouble with boundaries.  I don't know if that applies exactly, but I think you'll know if you read the reviews.

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:grouphug:

 

For individual therapy, I really think one needs to be prepared to switch if a therapist isn't a good fit. I've had good and just ok. The best therapist I worked with was recommended by a friend.

 

 

Yep, I was going to recommend Gottman's The Seven Principles For Making Marriage Work. I find myself using principles from it all the time. I don't think Hubby ever bothered to read it, but he went along with it when I wanted to do the exercises from it together, and he got a lot out of the exercises even without reading the book.

......

 

This is the book I was going to recommend as well. Gottman's stuff is the best I know of if you decide to try to work on the marriage, and this book anyway has doable and helpful exercises to complete. My husband, also, just did the those without reading the book. It helped us.

 

 

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If were trying to choose a therapist, I would either meet with them first (or call if they would allow) and try to get a feel for their typical strategy. The last one we tried did absolutely nothing for us. We had one assignment to work on in the 6 or 7 times we went. He sat and listened and offered zero help, other than directing us to a book on our last visit (it may have been a Gottman book, I don't recall). It was a total waste of time and left us both really frustrated. A previous one talked so over our heads and had such scattered thoughts we left there more confused than when we walked in. I would also ask around to your trusted friends for recommendations.

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I have been listening to podcasts on Shrink Rap Radio hosted by Dave Van Nuys, Ph.D. His interviews cover many topics in psychology, including psychotherapy. It has given me much to think about re therapy, especially since of the nearly 10 therapists I have seen in the past 35 years, not one has ever talked about the therapy process itself, and I have spent countless hours participating in completely ineffectual therapy.

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I heard this idea once that appealed to me, though I have not tried it. It was not from a marriage expert, but from either a frugality or a successful habits type author and I think the idea was to prevent problems in the marriage rather than fix them, but it seems like it could help repair smaller problems. The idea was to keep a notebook in which you wrote down good things you noticed about your spouse every day. It didn't have to be anything monumental. It could be stuff like "He looks great in his blue shirt" or "He brought in the groceries without being asked" or "He spoke so kindly to the elderly man next door" or "He saved a moth from drowning in the pool". The point was to refocus your lens on the everyday positives. Anyway, it is free and easy and might help you rediscover some affection for one another.

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A few months ago, my dh & I started marriage counselling. "Finding a counselor who fits for you" was not so much the problem as finding one that had availability! By the time I got to wanting therapy, I was ready for it THEN, not two months down the road.

 

Then, once we did find a counselor, the first couple of sessions I found rather frustrating because I was ready to dive into some issues, but we needed a couple of sessions just so the counselor could really get a grasp of the issues.

 

I say all that to let you know that I've found it worthwhile, but it takes a while, too!

 

Personally, I have found the most help for my marriage in learning about ME. With that in mind, I just finished reading a book that I loved and found very helpful, if that's where you are. Untame Yourself (I personally found the cover image a little off-putting, btw, but the book itself was great.) I also second the recommendation for Boundaries.

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