Does anyone else see this? Do you think it is cause for concern?

[snowbeltmom]

I don't actually get how that is a principle.  I can accept that there might be practical reasons in some cases.

 

Here, they are talking about disallowing homeschooled kids from the school string and choir program, on principle it seems.  I cant see how this makes at sense.  It isn't disruptive because it isn't during class time.  It isn't using school services without them getting money for it.  Homeschoolers pay taxes to fund that program like everybody else.  So what principle is that "if you don't use our classrooms for everything you can't have any access to public education programs" - where is the logic in that?

 

:iagree:

The policy in my state is only a few years old, but it is very popular in my area.  Homeschoolers and private schooled kids participate in a wide variety of extracurricular activities and some homeschoolers take classes at the public school, although the state leaves it up to each district whether or not homeschoolers can take academic classes at the school. 

 

My tax dollars are supporting these activities, and if a homeschooler takes a class at the public school, the state gives the school more money, so it is a win-win for all involved, imo.

 

 

[Happy2BaMom]

Both sides of the "will more regulation will lead to less abuse and neglect" debate are pretty much dealing with anecdote and hunches only. There's no concrete evidence to support either side. Most of the "data" pro-homeschooling groups point to is hopelessly flawed (with high performing homeschoolers opting in and no information on anyone else.)

 

For me, the rights of a child to an education trump the rights of the parents to raise "stay at home daughters" or not teach their children. Kids who are being abused and neglected are more important than my personal convenience. And the number of kids who are abused and neglected while homeschooling is not so small as to be insignificant. I'm tired of homeschoolers ignoring anyone with concerns about homeschooling.

 

 

The "data" of the pro-homeschooling groups is part of the problem. There is a lot of "well, homeschooled students continually out-perform public school students, so don't worry about it" myths out there. I actually think that used to be true. Don't think that any more. 

 

I have a much-older friend who started homeschooling her kids in the mid-90's (we were friends then, so I watched her journey). Homeschooling was still rather weird then - that was more than 20 years ago - and the parents who were doing it were still largely the gritted-teeth-gonna-prove-I-can-do-this-come-h*ll-or-high-water mold and followed that kind of rigor, whether classical or unschooling. And it worked. Pretty well, overall, IMHO.

 

By the time my friend's kids were in junior high, the mode was already changing. The long-time co-op that she had helped form had to close down for a year due to having to reset expectations of parents....e.g. they "had to teach that homeschooling had to be just that, and that the coop was for supplementation only, and that parents had to be prepared to teach or help every week at the coop". 

 

I've seen a huge decrease in quality since the time I started homeschooling (8 years ago). And I've posted about it here before. Always someone comes along and points out how horrible the public schools are, which is interesting, for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is that public schools are not monolithic. There are a number of excellent ones out there (my school district and most of the ones around me), a number of good ones, middling, poor, etc. I don't understand why parents are comfortable choosing the worst of the worst-performing schools as an acceptable comparison for people tutoring their own children one-on-one at home. But whatever. 

 

My ds will be attending the IB program at a local high school next year, in part because the level of academic rigor and expectation is so much higher there than in the local homeschool community. Part of me is sad about him attending high school, but I also am happy that, when he applies for college, that he will not have to risk being associated with what I view as an increasingly-lax educational movement.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Happy2BaMom

[Lecka]

This is just an aside, but my relative had no involvement with other homeschoolers. She bought a curriculum used in a private Christian school where kids worked through booklets on their own. Then joked about how she needed to open the box (never followed through on this).

 

So I hope this is rare, but I know it would be invisible to other homeschoolers bc she didn't be participate in anything like that.

 

Honestly my relative's child was older and might have just dropped out after repeating a grade, if not for "homeschooling."

 

I don't know.

 

I have never met anybody else doing anything like this and I have met quite a few homeschoolers! This is probably known only to close relatives and maybe a few friends of the child. They would not spread it around, you know?

[LMD]

iPads and apps are tools just like a book is a tool.... can be useful or completely useless. If it has more than mine craft on it , they're already ahead of some kids.

 

My kids both went to public 1st and enjoyed RazKids and BrainPOP. I still hear about it sometimes. "This is MLK weekend" "oh he is from altlanta actually. I learned that on BrainPOP".

 

They also had about 16 kids in the classroom each, though. 60 is obviously terrible. And I'd really bad for kids flung from that into educational neglect by their parents.

Oh, I agree, we use plenty of tech here!

There is just no way on earth I'd give my particular 6 year old his own ipad.

The public school we were zoned for had community classrooms with that many kids and 2-3 teachers in there. Ipads - paid for by parents - were compulsory from K. The parents I spoke to were very unimpressed, kids would watch YouTube all day, show younger ones inappropriate content etc. It was largely chaos. They went on to homeschool! I know people with stories of other schools run similarly and the main consensus was that it's anarchy in there.

[Murphy101]

Both sides of the "will more regulation will lead to less abuse and neglect" debate are pretty much dealing with anecdote and hunches only. There's no concrete evidence to support either side. Most of the "data" pro-homeschooling groups point to is hopelessly flawed (with high performing homeschoolers opting in and no information on anyone else.)

 

For me, the rights of a child to an education trump the rights of the parents to raise "stay at home daughters" or not teach their children. Kids who are being abused and neglected are more important than my personal convenience. And the number of kids who are abused and neglected while homeschooling is not so small as to be insignificant. I'm tired of homeschoolers ignoring anyone with concerns about homeschooling.

Over the years when I was in school I knew several kids who were expected to become stay at home daughters. And many who were expected to go into whatever particular profession. And yet they had no problem sending their kids to school. Even with an awful kid like me. 😜

 

I've never understood that argument.

 

If someone doesn't believe their daughters should live a certain way for religious reasons or whatever, the school should respect that. What's that got to do with knowing how to write or solve algebra problems is beyond me.

 

I think they are scared their child will conform to peers. Conformity is the problem though, not the kid getting math. There's no anti-religious voodoo in learning higher math.

[maize]

Over the years when I was in school I knew several kids who were expected to become stay at home daughters. And many who were expected to go into whatever particular profession. And yet they had no problem sending their kids to school. Even with an awful kid like me. 😜

 

I've never understood that argument.

 

If someone doesn't believe their daughters should live a certain way for religious reasons or whatever, the school should respect that. What's that got to do with knowing how to write or solve algebra problems is beyond me.

 

I think they are scared their child will conform to peers. Conformity is the problem though, not the kid getting math. There's no anti-religious voodoo in learning higher math.

It seems some people are afraid that learning math=opportunities and opportunities=loss of control over their kid's future.

 

Leave only one door open and they have to go through it...

[Murphy101]

Oh, I agree, we use plenty of tech here!

There is just no way on earth I'd give my particular 6 year old his own ipad.

The public school we were zoned for had community classrooms with that many kids and 2-3 teachers in there. Ipads - paid for by parents - were compulsory from K. The parents I spoke to were very unimpressed, kids would watch YouTube all day, show younger ones inappropriate content etc. It was largely chaos. They went on to homeschool! I know people with stories of other schools run similarly and the main consensus was that it's anarchy in there.

Everyone I talk to in my area feels the same. They are really frustrated and feel helpless bc they can't homeschool or afford private school but their kids are not getting a decent education.

 

I don't know how they can demand parents buy iPads. Or data plans. Or wifi/internet at home. Or what? By law they have to educate regardless. Just like they can't kick a kid to the curb if they don't have pencil and paper.

 

And I keep thinking that I just do not understand why we are spending billions on tech and we can't even get graduates with the level of education Laura Wilder got with a few books and chalk on the prairie. It makes no kind of sense.

[Murphy101]

It seems some people are afraid that learning math=opportunities and opportunities=loss of control over their kid's future.

 

Leave only one door open and they have to go through it...

Then they are simpletons. Because there's always another way. If there's not a door, there's a window, a fireplace chimney or if nothing else knock the damn wall down. It not coincidence that cornered critters do a lot of damage to a place. It's human nature and you cannot parent that out.

[LMD]

Bringing up bad schools is not, for me, an exercise in deflection.

 

It is simply to illustrate that here, they can't even keep their own low standards - yet they want to judge mine?

And, when they are acting on the assumption that if I don't meet their standards then going to school will be better, I will disagree with that assumption.

 

 

On the question of evidence, I agree that it can be a problem. However, if the department was less antagonistic and heavy handed, it would be easier to work together on this. Local hs organisations do collect data on hs grads and hsers who do choose to sit standardised tests.

[LMD]

Everyone I talk to in my area feels the same. They are really frustrated and feel helpless bc they can't homeschool or afford private school but their kids are not getting a decent education.

 

I don't know how they can demand parents buy iPads. Or data plans. Or wifi/internet at home. Or what? By law they have to educate regardless. Just like they can't kick a kid to the curb if they don't have pencil and paper.

 

And I keep thinking that I just do not understand why we are spending billions on tech and we can't even get graduates with the level of education Laura Wilder got with a few books and chalk on the prairie. It makes no kind of sense.

I don't know how they can demand it either. I was quite aghast listening to this mother, so I enquired for myself and it was true. We were in a low socioeconomic area, paying for that ipad was probably their biggest expense! Oh, and in gr 3 it needs to be upgraded to a netbook.

It was insane, but a lot these mostly poor, largely migrant parents were not in a position to argue! This mother opened up a conversation with me at the park by asking what school my kids went to, she was desperate for an alternative. Her eyes lit up when I told her that yes, homeschooling is legal!

[kiana]

I don't know how they can demand parents buy iPads. Or data plans. Or wifi/internet at home. Or what? By law they have to educate regardless. Just like they can't kick a kid to the curb if they don't have pencil and paper.

 

What the heck??

 

That has GOT to violate some 'free and appropriate' thing. What do they do if the kid just shows up without it?!

[Rosie_0801]

I don't know how they can demand it either. I was quite aghast listening to this mother, so I enquired for myself and it was true. We were in a low socioeconomic area, paying for that ipad was probably their biggest expense! Oh, and in gr 3 it needs to be upgraded to a netbook.

It was insane, but a lot these mostly poor, largely migrant parents were not in a position to argue! This mother opened up a conversation with me at the park by asking what school my kids went to, she was desperate for an alternative. Her eyes lit up when I told her that yes, homeschooling is legal!

 

Our local school charges a yearly fee for use of laptops (primary school) which, after six years, has more than covered the cost of the machine. Do they get to keep the old, clunky, out of date laptop when they graduate? No, they do not.

[wapiti]

I don't know how they can demand it either. I was quite aghast listening to this mother, so I enquired for myself and it was true. We were in a low socioeconomic area, paying for that ipad was probably their biggest expense! Oh, and in gr 3 it needs to be upgraded to a netbook.

It was insane, but a lot these mostly poor, largely migrant parents were not in a position to argue!

 

This is the sort of thing that should be brought to the attention of the school board.  It sounds like the same type of dumb administrative decision that results in poor quality curricula, where the Pearson (or whoever) rep does quite the sales job.

 

ETA, in my area, public elementary students are not permitted, much less required, to bring personal computers/tablets, though it's possible it may have changed very recently.  I know for certain that the local STEM charter does not allow it until 5th.  Personal devices are pretty much required in all the local middle and high schools (public and private) but my understanding is that arrangements are made for those that can't afford one, i.e. the district provides.

Edited January 19, 2017 by wapiti

[Murphy101]

Our local school charges a yearly fee for use of laptops (primary school) which, after six years, has more than covered the cost of the machine. Do they get to keep the old, clunky, out of date laptop when they graduate? No, they do not.

But if a kid doesn't pay it - then what happens?

 

I'm so glad I homeschool. Because I would refuse. And I wouldn't let my kid bring one home either.

 

None of my kids have electronics before approx age 15/16 other than limited to weekend use TV based games like Wii/Xbox or NintendoDS games.

 

We love tech. We just don't love tech as babysitter and don't think tech is some miracle education pill.

[Rosie_0801]

But if a kid doesn't pay it - then what happens?

 

I'll ask.

[ScoutTN]

My kids do not have a meek and sweet mother.

 

They have a strong willed, argumentative mother.

 

I suppose I have only myself to blame for the strong willed, argumentative children who wear me out...

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  This is me, too!!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

If there is a legal definition of educational neglect, then it should be applied to all school-aged children whether homeschooled or not.  If that definition is simply that the child has his/her butt in a seat - whether at home or at school - it still has to be equal.  But if it is that the child needs to be at grade level or "show progress", then that still should be equal.  Because children are being neglected educationally in public and private schools as well as homeschooling.  It's horrible that it is so.  I don't say that as a "that lets us off of the hook" thing at all.  But I don't think that you should define neglect differently for different kinds of educational methods and venues. 

 

Edited to say that I looked up the definition of educational neglect in my state and it is simply to neglect to enroll them in a school or homeschool or special ed. program. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[FaithManor]

I have a question though Jean. You say "butt on seat" but in a school that means there is a supervising teacher teaching something for several hours a day, some sort of formalized education thing going on in front of the child that he/she has the opportunity to try, and books/educational materials are provided. So in the case of my local PS elementary school each child gets penmanship worksheets, a math text, a science text, a social studies workbook, a spelling workbook, books to take home to read or have read to them, and assignments made on a very regular basis. Chores and video games are NOT the order of the day. On top of which, they do get in trouble from the state for poor performance and have to show effort to improve.

 

This is NOT what happens with homeschool neglect. It.is.not.equivalent. I am talking about families with no plan, no books, no assignments, no teaching, no nothing. Apparently by "butt in seat" equivalency since they are at home in a homeschool that is somehow equal?

 

And in my area we have numerous families who go year in and year out making no effort. Unless you truly believe that kids run entirely feral in the ps, and teachers do nothing but twiddle their thunbs all day drawing a paycheck fo sitting on their behinds - a grievous, inaccurate, and judgmental assumption to make of all ps teachers - then the PS beleve it or not wins over unmotivated parents and in particular the ones who eschew education so their kid can't leave the cult.

 

My PS for all its plethora of faults is not turning out neurotypical kids that can't write their names, read at a 5th grade level, or write a decent sentence. But local homeschoolers are doing exactly that and bragging about it.

 

They deserve to have authorities involved, and for darn certain they have no right to deprive their children of the crappy PS opportunity to learn because of religious belief.

 

Sometimes I truly wonder why people hate PS teachers so much. Good gravy, the vast majority work very hard!

[Rosie_0801]

I have a question though Jean. You say "butt on seat" but in a school that means there is a supervising teacher teaching something for several hours a day, some sort of formalized education thing going on in front of the child that he/she has the opportunity to try, and books/educational materials are provided. So in the case of my local PS elementary school each child gets penmanship worksheets, a math text, a science text, a social studies workbook, a spelling workbook, books to take home to read or have read to them, and assignments made on a very regular basis. Chores and video games are NOT the order of the day. On top of which, they do get in trouble from the state for poor performance and have to show effort to improve.

 

 

One of our local schools went through a phase of assigning work to kids, some of whom couldn't read adequately yet, and waiting for them to finish it. No teaching. Just assigning. Then a bad report if it wasn't done.

 

I was very surprised to hear that, because the Catholic schools are usually better than the public.

 

I've no idea how this was allowed, and I'm not generalising this to all schools or all teachers. 

[poppy]

Oh, yes there is.

 

Sorry, realised short and blunt sounds like snarky. We had a state inquiry into this very thing, we have data from other homeschool organisations about who/how many access their services. We may not know exactly but we can have some decent estimates, and they all put less onerous reg = higher compliance.

I would honestly not trust data provided by homeschool orgs about who uses their services. I'm on the board of such a group and I can tell you the data collection is very much geared towards advocacy not impartiality .

[Kassia]

And I keep thinking that I just do not understand why we are spending billions on tech and we can't even get graduates with the level of education Laura Wilder got with a few books and chalk on the prairie. It makes no kind of sense.

 

Here in Ohio, high-stakes standardized tests are taken on computers so all students have to be very comfortable using the computers so they do well on the tests.  All test prep is done on the computers as well as the tests themselves.  When every student doesn't have a computer in school, then the testing is a nightmare because students have to take the tests in shifts which means classroom instruction has to stop - for weeks at a time - and the computers are tied up for testing and can't be used for other things.  Our district has chromebooks for every student in grades 3-12 - those are the students who are tested.  Everything revolves around the darn tests.

 

ETA:  the chromebooks are provided by the district.  Parents pay for insurance, earbuds, and covers.  I can't remember if they pay any rental fee.  The district pays a fortune to rent the chromebooks.  Meanwhile, our schools are falling apart and new teachers make very little money.  All because of these useless tests that prove nothing.  It's appalling.  Most homework, tests, etc. are done on the chromebooks and it's hard for parents to see what their children are actually doing in school because there aren't hard copies of anything.  There are also security/privacy issues as well as the fact that there is no way to block sites that are inappropriate.    

Edited January 19, 2017 by Erica H

[Murphy101]

Here in Ohio, high-stakes standardized tests are taken on computers so all students have to be very comfortable using the computers so they do well on the tests. All test prep is done on the computers as well as the tests themselves. When every student doesn't have a computer in school, then the testing is a nightmare because students have to take the tests in shifts which means classroom instruction has to stop - for weeks at a time - and the computers are tied up for testing and can't be used for other things. Our district has chromebooks for every student in grades 3-12 - those are the students who are tested. Everything revolves around the darn tests.

 

ETA: the chromebooks are provided by the district. Parents pay for insurance, earbuds, and covers. I can't remember if they pay any rental fee. The district pays a fortune to rent the chromebooks. Meanwhile, our schools are falling apart and new teachers make very little money. All because of these useless tests that prove nothing. It's appalling. Most homework, tests, etc. are done on the chromebooks and it's hard for parents to see what their children are actually doing in school because there aren't hard copies of anything. There are also security/privacy issues as well as the fact that there is no way to block sites that are inappropriate.

Again. I just do not understand why people just do it.

 

I'd refuse to buy the insurance. I'd refuse to buy the earbuds or the covers. I'd refuse to hook it up to our internet at home.

 

And legally - how can the schools make parents do it?

 

And for the love of Pete. Whoever decided to use a test that required that much insanity in material purchases should be fired. And so should the testing companies. Which is a total scamming racket as far as I can tell.

[Bluegoat]

As far as schools asking parents to buy tech - I think its probably the same as other school supplies.  Parents normally have to pay for gym shoes, pencils, and calculators, book-bags, and so on.

 

It drives me crazy that elementary schools spend on this stuff when they can't afford to do other important things.  Like have a reasonable number of kids per class.  Even at higher levels, it often seems like they are not thinking carefully about what benefit a technology will give above other, cheaper ways of doing things.

[theelfqueen]

My SIL has pulled two of her kids from public school into online public charter. She kept saying they were homeschooling, which made my mother crazy and me a little grumpy... until SIL asked me to suggest some kind of math help for her struggling kids. And I had a wide variety of suggestions (and pulled a complete set of Keys to Algebra off my shelf and handed them to her) and she started asking questions about my curriculum and such until she realized that yes I made all these decisions and planned all the lessons, and purchased the curriculum, etc myself. She was a bit shocked by the whole thing.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Edited January 20, 2017 by theelfqueen

[Murphy101]

As far as schools asking parents to buy tech - I think its probably the same as other school supplies. Parents normally have to pay for gym shoes, pencils, and calculators, book-bags, and so on.

Have to? No they don't. There is no legal mandate requiring that in my state. And every dang year we all hop on the crazy wheel and repeat the problem of:

 

Teachers need basic matierals the stupid schools do not provide to teach and therefore:

 

They put out huge supply lists for each kid that easily supplies for 10 because

 

Half the kids won't bring anything or enough of what is on the list

 

And thus the teachers will complain about buying out of their own pocket.

 

When what needs to happen is for everyone to draw a line in the sand and refuse. Bc the govt school isn't going to pay for anything they can get away with not buying and every time the public does this they are sending the message that the school budget doesn't really have to budget for the most important things needs for the classroom.

 

In my state students will have smart boards but not enough math textbooks for each student to take home.

 

There are iPads and laptops, but literally no available teacher in the classroom bc the school either can't afford to hire a teacher at all or doesn't pay enough to make it worth teaching in crappy systems.

 

Some school districts are slightly better than others, but not enough to claim superiority. Usually they look nicer and fancier bc they have a huge football stadium. Don't even get me started.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Murphy101

[Murphy101]

They can't make you.

 

I'd refuse too. And my kid would hate me.

I know. Which just makes me madder about it.

[Seasider]

My SIL has pulled two of her kids from public school into online public charter. She kept saying they were homeschooling which made my mother crazy and me a little grumpy... until SIL asked me to suggest some kind of math help for her struggling kids. And I had a wide variety of suggestions (and pulled a complete set of KEYS to Algebra off myself and handed them to her) and she started asking questions about my curriculum and such until she realized that yes I made all these decisions and planned all the lessons etc myself. She was a bit shocked by the whole thing.

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Yes, I've experienced a similar reaction. Like we just moved schooling to a different location and that everything else just magically fell into place.

 

"Wait, you really had to do XYZ, too?"

Yeah, really.

[poppy]

Again. I just do not understand why people just do it.

 

I'd refuse to buy the insurance. I'd refuse to buy the earbuds or the covers. I'd refuse to hook it up to our internet at home.

 

And legally - how can the schools make parents do it?

 

And for the love of Pete. Whoever decided to use a test that required that much insanity in material purchases should be fired. And so should the testing companies. Which is a total scamming racket as far as I can tell.

 

You would refuse to provide earbuds?  Really? 

 

I'm part of a fundraising community club. We provide school supplies for needy kids.  So I guess that's what happens when parents don't "just do it". We would give your kid ear buds.

I guess you could refuse that too.

[LMD]

I don't hate PS teachers at all. They have a hard job, for which they get little kudos and oftentimes, lower pay than they should.

 

I do hate the PS system.

 

I adore teachers.  I'm sitting next to an excellent one right now (my bestie). 

 

In fact, teachers-turned-homeschoolers are over represented amongst homeschooling parents!  I wonder why?!

(yes, I know demographics play a role in that)

[Murphy101]

But I agree with you about the line in the sand.

 

I don't pay my 'voluntary' contribution on principle. Because it isn't voluntary. It's a demand. And it's a demand because of a whole lot of issues that aren't mine to deal with, so long as dh and I are paying our taxes.

 

I am not a popular school mom.

Me either. You can sit with me at the table in the corner. 😔

[Murphy101]

You would refuse to provide earbuds? Really?

 

I'm part of a fundraising community club. We provide school supplies for needy kids. So I guess that's what happens when parents don't "just do it". We would give your kid ear buds.

I guess you could refuse that too.

Yes I would. (They wouldn't even need them bc notice I'd refuse it all anyways.)

 

Because they would not even need your committee if those in charge of the school did their bleeping jobs right and put the priority on the classroom instead of administration and turf for football fields.

 

Any school that is saying they can't put even basic need in the classroom isn't being managed right. You shouldn't have a single student who has to rely on being needy enough to get all their basic educational materials at a public school. That's the whole blasted point of public school. An equal basic free education for everyone.

 

If it matters, I don't allow earbuds for general use in my house. I want to know what's going on and I think it's bad for ears. (Am i the only who wonders about that bc I hear everything many people are playing through their buds in public bc they play it so very loudly.)

 

Why does our country spend millions more for education and healthcare per person spending than most any other nation but get far less?!

 

Enough already. Long past time to refuse to comply with foolish programs that perpetuate the problem until that changes. If more did it would happen and it would happen quickly.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have a question though Jean. You say "butt on seat" but in a school that means there is a supervising teacher teaching something for several hours a day, some sort of formalized education thing going on in front of the child that he/she has the opportunity to try, and books/educational materials are provided. So in the case of my local PS elementary school each child gets penmanship worksheets, a math text, a science text, a social studies workbook, a spelling workbook, books to take home to read or have read to them, and assignments made on a very regular basis. Chores and video games are NOT the order of the day. On top of which, they do get in trouble from the state for poor performance and have to show effort to improve.

 

This is NOT what happens with homeschool neglect. It.is.not.equivalent. I am talking about families with no plan, no books, no assignments, no teaching, no nothing. Apparently by "butt in seat" equivalency since they are at home in a homeschool that is somehow equal?

 

And in my area we have numerous families who go year in and year out making no effort. Unless you truly believe that kids run entirely feral in the ps, and teachers do nothing but twiddle their thunbs all day drawing a paycheck fo sitting on their behinds - a grievous, inaccurate, and judgmental assumption to make of all ps teachers - then the PS beleve it or not wins over unmotivated parents and in particular the ones who eschew education so their kid can't leave the cult.

 

My PS for all its plethora of faults is not turning out neurotypical kids that can't write their names, read at a 5th grade level, or write a decent sentence. But local homeschoolers are doing exactly that and bragging about it.

 

They deserve to have authorities involved, and for darn certain they have no right to deprive their children of the crappy PS opportunity to learn because of religious belief.

 

Sometimes I truly wonder why people hate PS teachers so much. Good gravy, the vast majority work very hard!

I think that you are reading something into my post? I taught ps for years before homeschooling. I plan to go back after homeschooling.

 

All I did was to look at MY states legal definition of educational neglect. MY state's legal definition doesn't mention tests etc. Obviously other laws require them.

[Arcadia]

I'm part of a fundraising community club. We provide school supplies for needy kids. So I guess that's what happens when parents don't "just do it". We would give your kid ear buds.

My kids former public school provide headsets for technology class in kindergarten and up. However parents are welcomed to provide ear buds or headsets for their kids instead of using the common headsets. I don't expect schools to sterilize headsets and I have a sensory kid so he brought his own headset for the once a week class. The public school gave the k-5 teachers $100 for classroom school supplies which includes boxes of tissue paper. As my kid has seasonal allergies, I don't mind sponsoring boxes of Kleenex (or any other brand) of tissue paper for his classroom.

 

There was a thread sometime last year about a boardie who teach high school math and she has 6 scientific calculators to share among her entire class of students. My kids have a $10 scienctific calculator to use for SAT and ACT while the boardie's students are sharing school supplied calculators for daily class work.

 

School funding for my school district is through property tax. However the district do get a certain amount of instructional dollars per child from the budget and they have to pay for each child that uses a public charter instead of the public school. So they are happy for my children to go to private school or homeschool but they "lost money" for the years my kids used a public charter instead of their assigned public school.

[Rosie_0801]

They can't make you. 

 

I'd refuse too. And my kid would hate me.

 

My local friend said they bully you until you capitulate. 

[poppy]

Yes I would. (They wouldn't even need them bc notice I'd refuse it all anyways.)

 

Because they would not even need your committee if those in charge of the school did their bleeping jobs right and put the priority on the classroom instead of administration and turf for football fields.

 

Any school that is saying they can't put even basic need in the classroom isn't being managed right. You shouldn't have a single student who has to rely on being needy enough to get all their basic educational materials at a public school. That's the whole blasted point of public school. An equal basic free education for everyone.

 

If it matters, I don't allow earbuds for general use in my house. I want to know what's going on and I think it's bad for ears. (Am i the only who wonders about that bc I hear everything many people are playing through their buds in public bc they play it so very loudly.)

 

Why does our country spend millions more for education and healthcare per person spending than most any other nation but get far less?!

 

Enough already. Long past time to refuse to comply with foolish programs that perpetuate the problem until that changes. If more did it would happen and it would happen quickly.

 

Even when I was a kid,  had to send in pencils and notebooks.  So we're talking .... early 1980s? I don't see $5 earbuds as all that different.

Maybe tomorrow I'll ask my mom if she had to purchase school supplies when she went, 25 years earlier.

 

[lovinmyboys]

IME, your kid will miss out on recess and other fun things at school until you get them the earbuds.

[Murphy101]

IME, your kid will miss out on recess and other fun things at school until you get them the earbuds.

So they want to shame/punish poor kids? Or just kids they think have jerk parents? Tell me again why I'd want people like that taking care of my kid every day? And why they shouldn't be sued for it?

[lovinmyboys]

I'm not advocating it, just reporting it 😀. Kids who didn't have ear buds would be given ear buds. Kids who didn't use the ear buds given would be punished.

[Murphy101]

I'm not advocating it, just reporting it 😀. Kids who didn't have ear buds would be given ear buds. Kids who didn't use the ear buds given would be punished.

I know. I just hate this stuff. And that's why truth be known the schools are glad I home school. Because there's plenty of indicators they sure as heck don't want mouthy moms who actually get involved and demand changes. Just give your money and cheer or go away is the very strong vibe here.

[Rosie_0801]

I'm not advocating it, just reporting it 😀. Kids who didn't have ear buds would be given ear buds. Kids who didn't use the ear buds given would be punished.

 

Shame for kids who have a low pain threshold, huh? I can't use them. They hurt.

[Guest]

So they want to shame/punish poor kids? Or just kids they think have jerk parents? Tell me again why I'd want people like that taking care of my kid every day? And why they shouldn't be sued for it?

Word.

[Murphy101]

Shame for kids who have a low pain threshold, huh? I can't use them. They hurt.

So glad someone other than me said it. They hurt me too. I can do maybe 15-20 minutes. My dh bought me a cushy headset to watch Netflix in the ruku remote at night, but even with those, I don't wear them bc it hurts. I place them around my neck and turn it up until I can hear it, but it's so close and still so low that the sound doesn't bother sleeping dh.

[Anne in CA]

I, also, can't use earbuds. I have horrible tinnitus and they make me miserable.

[Guest]

To be fair, I bet they'd let kids have their own over ear headphones instead if pain was an issue, provided they were just a basic pair and didn't block outside noise overly much. That doesn't make the rest of it much better though!

[Rosie_0801]

To be fair, I bet they'd let kids have their own over ear headphones instead if pain was an issue, provided they were just a basic pair and didn't block outside noise overly much. That doesn't make the rest of it much better though!

 

I can't use them either!

[IfIOnly]

I, also, can't use earbuds. I have horrible tinnitus and they make me miserable.

Oh, earbuds hurt my ears so badly. So painful. Ow.

[laundrycrisis]

This thread has wandered a bit, but I'm going back to the original question.  Yes.  

 

We are in a zero regulation state.  The homeschoolers here are very defensive about keeping it that way.   There is a lot I could say on both sides of that issue considering the state of the state and the public schools in the state right now, but I'll mostly skip that.  Among homeschoolers where I am, unschooling and very relaxed homeschooling seem to be the approach of most of the people I know IRL, with a very small portion being more academic.  And I hear (all the time, for years) people defending that reading isn't really important, that being illiterate  at 10/11/12 is nothing to panic about, that math facts don't really matter, that algebra doesn't matter, etc.  They will do it when they are ready, when they are interested, when it has real meaning to them, and so on.  The same people will talk and post the old statistics with the fun graphics that show homeschoolers outperforming publicly schooled kids in every area.  I do think that this is eventually going to catch up with the homeschooling community.  Especially when I look at the majority political makeup of our state legislators and the things they like to do - I cannot see this state continuing as a zero regulation place.  I think the only reason it hasn't already happened is very vocal opposition that turns out in person in great numbers when called upon, and that the state is such a mess with bigger and more threatening fish to fry.  But I think the day is coming when homeschoolers here will have to jump through more hoops.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

I hate earbuds!!!

 

 

[Dmmetler]

Shame for kids who have a low pain threshold, huh? I can't use them. They hurt.

 

My DD is taking a college class which is partially on a computer and is supposed to have earbuds or headphones, so we bought a nice set of headphones for her to keep in her backpack for that purpose. I don't think anyone would have problems with a kid using their own headphones.

[FaithManor]

So glad someone other than me said it. They hurt me too. I can do maybe 15-20 minutes. My dh bought me a cushy headset to watch Netflix in the ruku remote at night, but even with those, I don't wear them bc it hurts. I place them around my neck and turn it up until I can hear it, but it's so close and still so low that the sound doesn't bother sleeping dh.

I have sensitive hearing, and really find it uncomfortable to have the sound directly channeled into my ear even with the volume quite low. It isn't exactly pain, but on the other hand, I'd go absolutely nuts if I had to use them!