Did I overemphasize Fiscal Responsibility? Argh

[TranquilMind]

It's natural for me to be quite frugal. I had Depression-era parents, and I heard frequently about how you never go into debt, and you buy a chair at a time, if that is all you an afford to furnish your house.  Message received.  Our mortgage is like 5% of our income and we are quickly eliminating it.  I buy stuff only rarely, and only what we need or will need (not averse to Costco stocking up).  I get my hair cut at Great Clips because hey, she is as good as any high falutin' stylist at an expensive salon that I have ever had, and also because my neck will no longer tolerate hanging over the bowl, so they just wet it and cut it.  Perfect. 

 

However- the kids!  Gee, I have to FORCE my teen to take money to do anything.  He actually says things like "I am not an income-producing asset and I feel bad spending money".  WHAT??? 

 

I say that you are my finest "asset" and you are in prep stage right now, and not expected to produce income.  Go have some fun!   ;) 

 

Another at University spends almost nothing.  Food.  I say to go out and have a little fun but don't do stupid things like get drunk or anything.  No problem.

 

Is this just me?  Do others have extremely frugal kids who hate to spend money?  They insist they are never going into any debt, but I tell them that while the no-debt lifestyle is freedom itself, it is hard to purchase a home without debt.  We did sell our highest priced home to a couple who did just that, though. They lived in a tiny house and saved for 20 years, and then bought ours, cash.  Easiest sale ever.

 

Just wondering if others have these kind of conversations with teens or if we are all just weirdos.  (Yeah, don't answer that second part.  ;)

[EmilyGF]

I have two sets of friends like that (for whom it seems painful to spend money - they wouldn't even register for gifts for their weddings because it was painful for them to see others spend money). 

 

On the plus side, both of these sets of friends have a lot of flexibility to do whatever they like because they aren't tied down to big bills. :-)

 

Emily

[Joyofsixreboot]

I am like you. Eerily so. My kids are like yours. On the bright side they have no debt.

Edited March 19, 2016 by joyofsix

[TranquilMind]

I have two sets of friends like that (for whom it seems painful to spend money - they wouldn't even register for gifts for their weddings because it was painful for them to see others spend money). 

 

On the plus side, both of these sets of friends have a lot of flexibility to do whatever they like because they aren't tied down to big bills. :-)

 

Emily

Yeah, that's true.  But sometimes they never DO anything.  My parent always wanted to visit a certain country and the opportunity to go with a friend came.  Parent declined because, "You never know how long you wil live and I want to time it so my money and my life last the same amount of time."

Well, ok...but you never went!  I feel bad about that and wish this would have happened. 

I want to do some things. 

[Matryoshka]

 

Is this just me?  Do others have extremely frugal kids who hate to spend money?  They insist they are never going into any debt, but I tell them that while the no-debt lifestyle is freedom itself, it is hard to purchase a home without debt.  We did sell our highest priced home to a couple who did just that, though. They lived in a tiny house and saved for 20 years, and then bought ours, cash.  Easiest sale ever.

 

We are pretty frugal.  We have no debt, we try to spend wisely etc.

 

We have three kids.

 

One is fairly balanced, I think.  She spends money but considers where and how she spends it, and tries to save for larger things.

One sounds more like yours.  She's an introvert, she isn't into clothes or shoes, she doesn't feel the need to do or buy lots of stuff.  Or much of anything.  I can't even get her to think of anything she'd possibly want for Christmas or her birthday.  Gift cards she gets go unspent for ages.

And the third spends any money she gets as soon as she gets it and always wants more stuff.  Where did that one come from???

 

[Bluegoat]

My sister can be a bit this way.  She is in her late 20's now, and attached but no kids, and she earns quite a good income, and her boyfriend has a good job as well.  So, they are actually fairly well set.  She does spend on things she can afford, but she finds it stressful, especially if it wasn't a planned purchase.

 

I think an aversion to spending can sometimes become a source of unhealthy stress.  And it can sometimes strt to take the form of miserliness which isn't good, either towards ourselves or others.  Every virtue has a related sin or error associated with it, so that is something to watch out for. 

[TranquilMind]

We are pretty frugal.  We have no debt, we try to spend wisely etc.

 

We have three kids.

 

One is fairly balanced, I think.  She spends money but considers where and how she spends it, and tries to save for larger things.

One sounds more like yours.  She's an introvert, she isn't into clothes or shoes, she doesn't feel the need to do or buy lots of stuff.  Or much of anything.  I can't even get her to think of anything she'd possibly want for Christmas or her birthday.  Gift cards she gets go unspent for ages.

And the third spends any money she gets as soon as she gets it and always wants more stuff.  Where did that one come from???

 

Did you find that last one on the doorstep? 

 

:-)

[MercyA]

It sounds like you did a good job! I wouldn't worry about it. You and your kids are not weirdos. Buy them something special once in a while, if it makes you feel better.  :)

[TranquilMind]

My sister can be a bit this way.  She is in her late 20's now, and attached but no kids, and she earns quite a good income, and her boyfriend has a good job as well.  So, they are actually fairly well set.  She does spend on things she can afford, but she finds it stressful, especially if it wasn't a planned purchase.

 

I think an aversion to spending can sometimes become a source of unhealthy stress.  And it can sometimes strt to take the form of miserliness which isn't good, either towards ourselves or others.  Every virtue has a related sin or error associated with it, so that is something to watch out for. 

Oh, I will give money away, wherever and whenever I feel led to do so, and it has happened frequently. 

 

I also give bonuses to most of the people who do work for me, but only if they don't try to extract a high price from me up front.  The more generous they are in pricing, the more generous I am in bonuses.  I wish more trades got this about me.  I had one guy who finally reduced his payment requests to, "Pay me whatever you want." knowing it would be higher than what he would ask.

 

I just worked with a new guy who trusted me for payment on a multi-thousand dollar job, instead of demanding a lot of money up front.  I gave him a huge bonus just because he trusted me - and he did a fantastic job.  On the other hand, I worked with someone for years, who suddenly decided all his customers, including long timers like me, had to pay thousands up front.  Nope.  He doesn't work for me anymore.  If I have paid you faithfully for over a decade, and even given you bonuses, trust me! 

 

So it isn't miserliness or the need to hold on to money.  I don't count it like Scrooge at night or fail to heat the house.  It's just some weird ingrained code I have. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

It sounds like you did a good job! I wouldn't worry about it. You and your kids are not weirdos. Buy them something special once in a while, if it makes you feel better.  :)

I try, but they never want anything! 

 

I did score a few nice things at Christmas though, that they seemed to enjoy.  Thank you, Amazon. 

[ktgrok]

Maybe talk to them about budgeting, and making sure to have a category for "fun" as well as clothing? That way they may feel more comfortable spending it?

[zoobie]

My dad is like that. I would encourage them to budget for entertainment and actually USE it. Because life. He's also very introverted, but his frugality gets in the way of his social life and frustrates my stepmother greatly at times. He will do stuff like buy the cheapest crappiest shoes at Walmart and then wonder why his knees hurt, kwim? He hates spending money on himself. He looks at the prices on menus and orders cheap over what he would actually enjoy eating the most, even though money is not an issue. (I'm talking $5 difference in entrees, not ordering a cartful of lobster.) My stepmother makes sure he's dressed presentably, but if he were alone, his frugality could hinder work advancement, etc. I rarely bought clothes in high school and felt very guilty when I needed some.  Anyway, not being in debt is good, but not making everyone around you miserable because of your cheapness is good too. 

[Mergath]

I think it's possible to go too far in either direction. I will say that if my kid didn't feel like he/or she was worthy of my money because he/she wasn't an "income-producing asset," I might try to be a little more balanced in the future. And there are situations where going into debt can be the better course of action. For example, your kids say they'll never go into debt, but what happens if one of them has a serious medical problem and the treatment will result in medical debt? Yes, debt sucks, but being dead sucks more.

 

I try to emphasize (and live) a balance between responsibility and flexibility. I want to be responsible with our money, but at the same time I don't want to put off everything I want to do until I'm too old to do it. I try to pass that on to my dd, but I'll have to get back to you in about fifteen years before I can tell you if the lessons took or not. :P 

[Carrie12345]

My 3 oldest kids almost never ask for anything, which is cute until I realize they don't have socks and underwear that fit @@.  They're reluctant to mention upcoming field trips or activity equipment b/c they understand how quickly it all adds up.  They always get everything they need, and a good deal of what they want, but they don't even really hint for it.  Holidays and birthdays can be frustrating!!!

 

However, they have no issue spend, spend, spending their own cash!

(We're doing Financial Lit next year, so it'll be interesting to see if/how they change.)

[Laura Corin]

I think it's a personality trait as much as anything.  My mum is extremely frugal as am I, but my brothers are not so much; of my two sons, one is very frugal.

[maize]

I think it's a personality trait as much as anything. My mum is extremely frugal as am I, but my brothers are not so much; of my two sons, one is very frugal.

I agree it is a personality trait. In my family some of the kids were extreme tightwads a in college and some didn't mind spending at all; same parents, essentially the same upbringing.

 

I am extremely thrifty with the exception of lessons and activities for my kids.

Edited March 19, 2016 by maize

[mamiof5]

You are not weirdos, but lucky indeed!

[Night Elf]

All of my children are frugal and I didn't emphasize it. Honestly, I've always been able to give them anything they wanted, they just never asked for a lot. My youngest is the worse. I have to insist that we are not poor and I can afford to buy her a new shirt or a nicely scented candle for her room.

[TranquilMind]

I think it's possible to go too far in either direction. I will say that if my kid didn't feel like he/or she was worthy of my money because he/she wasn't an "income-producing asset," I might try to be a little more balanced in the future. And there are situations where going into debt can be the better course of action. For example, your kids say they'll never go into debt, but what happens if one of them has a serious medical problem and the treatment will result in medical debt? Yes, debt sucks, but being dead sucks more.

 

I try to emphasize (and live) a balance between responsibility and flexibility. I want to be responsible with our money, but at the same time I don't want to put off everything I want to do until I'm too old to do it. I try to pass that on to my dd, but I'll have to get back to you in about fifteen years before I can tell you if the lessons took or not. :p

Well, absolutely.  The one that mentioned not being income producing knows that our crappy insurance just induced us to pay cash for a surgery.  Sure, it costs money, but yeah, being sick or dead is worse, so that is a useful and needed expenditure.

Same thing about some other products or services.  Sometimes, it is just worth it to pay more for better quality or better/quicker services.  And you are freer to do that if you are frugal about the things that really don't matter that much to you. 

[TranquilMind]

Yeah, I have one who headed overseas (trip he paid for himself) but refused to eat any lunches because they weren't included. He was already underweight, but came home 10 lbs lighter. He also came home with not a single photo because he goofed and deleted them, but wouldn't buy a postcard! We didn't hear from him for a week and someone said, "Check his debit card!" "Really? You think he would have actually SPENT money?" He's living in 150 square feet, with a roommate, with a bathroom down the hall because he doesn't want to spend any more on rent. He lived in his car last summer--he figures he saved $1000!

Wow!  Yeah, buy that kid a steak dinner.  He needs the calories. 

And living in a car....no savings would compensate for that, I think. 

[Rosie_0801]

And living in a car....no savings would compensate for that, I think. 

 

It's fine as a single person when you have a choice. 

[Bluegoat]

Oh, I will give money away, wherever and whenever I feel led to do so, and it has happened frequently. 

 

I also give bonuses to most of the people who do work for me, but only if they don't try to extract a high price from me up front.  The more generous they are in pricing, the more generous I am in bonuses.  I wish more trades got this about me.  I had one guy who finally reduced his payment requests to, "Pay me whatever you want." knowing it would be higher than what he would ask.

 

I just worked with a new guy who trusted me for payment on a multi-thousand dollar job, instead of demanding a lot of money up front.  I gave him a huge bonus just because he trusted me - and he did a fantastic job.  On the other hand, I worked with someone for years, who suddenly decided all his customers, including long timers like me, had to pay thousands up front.  Nope.  He doesn't work for me anymore.  If I have paid you faithfully for over a decade, and even given you bonuses, trust me! 

 

So it isn't miserliness or the need to hold on to money.  I don't count it like Scrooge at night or fail to heat the house.  It's just some weird ingrained code I have. 

 

People can be generous with others but miserly with themselves.  It isn't I think so much about what they spend, but the attitude behind it.  Or, especially with dependent young people, they can really feel almost embarrassed to be needing to be supported - I think a lot of teens are mentally ready to be self-supporting but they don't have natural outlets for that in our work world.  I think that feeling badly about spending some money for fun is something to discourage.

 

The idea of people who die with a bunch of money in the bank, and never do the fun thing they dreamed of, or who spend years cutting the butter in every recipe in half, is just so sad, but it starts before that.

[Joyofsixreboot]

My dad is like that. I would encourage them to budget for entertainment and actually USE it. Because life. He's also very introverted, but his frugality gets in the way of his social life and frustrates my stepmother greatly at times. He will do stuff like buy the cheapest crappiest shoes at Walmart and then wonder why his knees hurt, kwim? He hates spending money on himself. He looks at the prices on menus and orders cheap over what he would actually enjoy eating the most, even though money is not an issue. (I'm talking $5 difference in entrees, not ordering a cartful of lobster.) My stepmother makes sure he's dressed presentably, but if he were alone, his frugality could hinder work advancement, etc. I rarely bought clothes in high school and felt very guilty when I needed some.  Anyway, not being in debt is good, but not making everyone around you miserable because of your cheapness is good too. 

I have a tendency to be this way. I really, really try not to be and can get over it for the kids but buying myself something makes me physically ill and I truly dislike when people get me gifts. My kids will accept gifts but seldom ask for anything. I think, considering my parents and grandparents, it is genetic and learned  :laugh:

[Joyofsixreboot]

Yeah, I have one who headed overseas (trip he paid for himself) but refused to eat any lunches because they weren't included. He was already underweight, but came home 10 lbs lighter. He also came home with not a single photo because he goofed and deleted them, but wouldn't buy a postcard! We didn't hear from him for a week and someone said, "Check his debit card!" "Really? You think he would have actually SPENT money?" He's living in 150 square feet, with a roommate, with a bathroom down the hall because he doesn't want to spend any more on rent. He lived in his car last summer--he figures he saved $1000!

I came home from a semester in England with money because I never spent my stipend. I'm better than I used to be though. Also underweight has never been a problem.  :lol: I would draw the line at living in my car. I wouldn't feel safe.

[bettyandbob]

 

On the plus side, both of these sets of friends have a lot of flexibility to do whatever they like because they aren't tied down to big bills. :-)

 

Emily

It sounds they don't have that freedom because they might be afraid to spend money. In that situation they will miss out on experiencing life.

[bettyandbob]

I try to model some frugality, while still allowing yourself spending without guilt. I think I've been successful with dd. She saves to do things she really wants (anime convention) while still building up bigger savings for ultimate professional goal (PT school). She doesn't shop a lot, but when she does it's Target or thrift (formal clothes come from thrift stores. Her most recent purchase was the women's wardrobe staple--a black dress). She's quite good at comparison shopping and evaluating need.

 

She doesn't like people to spend money on her, especially me. I think she thinks a lot about how I'm working 3 jobs now and doesn't want to be a burden. We've argued about whether i should buy her a prom dress. I'd really like to buy her a dress. It would make me feel good to provide that for her. She's such a good daughter and she's leaving home in a few months.

 

I'm a little worried she won't socialize at college next year because doing so might involve spending money.

 

One thing I'd really like to help her do is study abroad. There really is no other time in a person's life when travel is as easy as when you are young, childless, unmarried and not yet starting your professional life. I am afraid she won't allow herself the experience. For me the opportunity has never come up again, but I think it's very important to go new places and see things and I'd hate for her to miss that.

[Cindy in FL.]

Yeah, that's true. But sometimes they never DO anything. My parent always wanted to visit a certain country and the opportunity to go with a friend came. Parent declined because, "You never know how long you wil live and I want to time it so my money and my life last the same amount of time."

Well, ok...but you never went! I feel bad about that and wish this would have happened.

I want to do some things.

My dad has prostate cancer which was already spread to lymph nodes at diagnosis. The doctor told him he had 7-8 years so he budgeted accordingly. That was 15 years ago. It's been interesting.

[amy g.]

I have one who is very frugal. She has every extra scholarship dollar in the bank and every cents she has ever made babysitting or feeding horses is in a box in her room. That is very helpful when I forget I need cash and can just go to the daughter bank to borrow it.

 

My son is super careful with money, but he likes nice things. So he researches and only buys things that he can use and then sell later for a profit. Neither one of them like to take money from me. I can't count the number of times I have heard,"Mother, STOP trying to give me money!"

 

The thing is, my husband and I are not really that way. We didn't teach them to be like that. Sure, I color my own hair, get infrequent cuts, buy clothes from the thrift store, but then I use the money I save for crazy splurges like $800 of Anerican Girl stuff to put in the little girl's Easter nests.

 

Dh likes nice things, but he only buys clothes on sale, only pays cash for cars, yet he will take the kids out to eat evey single time they run errands with him. My mother-in-law and my sister-in-law were extremely frugal, while neither of my parents could control their own spending. I think Dh and I are more balanced but sometimes how a kid turns out is just hard wired in their genetics.

[DawnM]

My kids don't spend much.  I had to MAKE my 18 year old take $10 the other night for food as I knew he would be at the community college past 7pm.  He finally agreed and bought a 6" meatball sandwich for $4 and a water.

 

We do have what I consider a nice house though and feel that if we are going to spend money, that is one place to do it.  

 

And like you, my youngest wants more.  He likes nice stuff.  I can't fault him that.  But what we tell him is that if he is going to be picky and need the $20 shirt rather than the $4 Kohl's special, he can only get 1, where the other boys can get 5.  Sometimes he opts for a cheaper item or waits until his birthday for things.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2016 by DawnM

[DawnM]

Oh, I will give money away, wherever and whenever I feel led to do so, and it has happened frequently. 

 

I also give bonuses to most of the people who do work for me, but only if they don't try to extract a high price from me up front.  The more generous they are in pricing, the more generous I am in bonuses.  I wish more trades got this about me.  I had one guy who finally reduced his payment requests to, "Pay me whatever you want." knowing it would be higher than what he would ask.

 

I just worked with a new guy who trusted me for payment on a multi-thousand dollar job, instead of demanding a lot of money up front.  I gave him a huge bonus just because he trusted me - and he did a fantastic job.  On the other hand, I worked with someone for years, who suddenly decided all his customers, including long timers like me, had to pay thousands up front.  Nope.  He doesn't work for me anymore.  If I have paid you faithfully for over a decade, and even given you bonuses, trust me! 

 

So it isn't miserliness or the need to hold on to money.  I don't count it like Scrooge at night or fail to heat the house.  It's just some weird ingrained code I have. 

 

But 99.9% of the world does not operate this way, so I fully understand why they don't get it.

[kewb]

Our feast or famine life due to dh's illness has definitely made some impacts on my teens in regards to food. If they have money they will buy whatever food they want when they want it.

 

There is also their natural inclinations. I am a saver my dh is a spender. More like it burns and he must spend the cash or die. My ds is a bit like dh only he can temper it a bit. He can save when there is something he wants. He only shops clearance for clothes. He researches before big purchases. My dd is a spender until she wants something expensive bad enough. She has paid full price for an article of clothing when she really wants it right now. She also can save for a big purchase if needed.

[Miss Mousie]

My 3 oldest kids almost never ask for anything, which is cute until I realize they don't have socks and underwear that fit @@.  They're reluctant to mention upcoming field trips or activity equipment b/c they understand how quickly it all adds up.  They always get everything they need, and a good deal of what they want, but they don't even really hint for it.  Holidays and birthdays can be frustrating!!!

 

However, they have no issue spend, spend, spending their own cash!

(We're doing Financial Lit next year, so it'll be interesting to see if/how they change.)

 

Mine is a bit like that, too.  And when he's grocery shopping with DH, he'll pick the cheapest of whatever item even if the one he'd really like is only a dime more.  If I suggest going out to breakfast on a school day, he'll tell me he can pay.  Sigh.  Drives me bonkers.

 

What are you planning to do for financial literacy?  I bought the Life of Fred book, but his politics are clearly very different from mine - not necessarily a bad thing, because it can open discussions, but still, I'd rather have the main thing be more in line with my own views.  I've never read Dave Ramsey, but I suspect he too is pretty far from my POV.

[TranquilMind]

My dad has prostate cancer which was already spread to lymph nodes at diagnosis. The doctor told him he had 7-8 years so he budgeted accordingly. That was 15 years ago. It's been interesting.

I hope he makes it to 100, and astonishes everyone. 

[TranquilMind]

But 99.9% of the world does not operate this way, so I fully understand why they don't get it.

That's why it is great to trust me when you work for me.  You will benefit.  If you don't, fine.  I will pay you the lowest amount I can negotiate or move on. 

[TranquilMind]

But 99.9% of the world does not operate this way, so I fully understand why they don't get it.

You know, on reflection, I don't know why not.  All it is is a form of reaping and sowing. 

[lailasmum]

I think I have quite unhealthy ideas surrounding money, spending it makes me feel so guilty and I can go to extremes of not buying clothes and shoes for myself until they fall apart and rarely doing fun things. My mum is extremely frugal, she would never take money for fun which I now realise is really important that you actually use a portion of your money to fill your life with fun, or spend it on hobbies etc. that kind of thing. I'm just learning how to get the balance and not feel the guilt. Maybe just talking about budgeting for fun and doing it yourself from time to time would make sure there is balance. We were never actually taught any money skills, it was just the feeling of don't spend it rather than learning how to spend wisely so it may be quite a different situation.

[lllll]

nm

Edited March 21, 2016 by _ oq?"

[73349]

I think it's healthy to emphasize responsibility, and my $ choices sound a lot like yours--but I wish someone older had talked to me about buying fewer and better things. We bought some really cheap things in our early 20s out of a sense of frugality, but now are wishing for more quality and less quantity.

 

http://www.buymeonce.com/home-usamight be worth a look with a teen.

[SereneHome]

It will be interesting to see how my kids turn out.  Financial security is HUGELY important to me and I am fairly frugal.  But at the same time I think it's important to have a balance and not save everything.  So I try to remember that.

 

Also, I don't view debt as a devil, I think it's important to be smart and leverage your money.  So, yes, I can see myself having assets/liability discussions with my kids.  As well as cost/benefit discussions. 

[stephanier.1765]

I have a son who is so tight he squeaks.  I might have just gone overboard with the money responsibility talks. :(

[madteaparty]

I wish I had this problem myself and wish this problem on my children, one of whom said he just wanted a 300$ Lego set for his birthday as if he were doing ME a favor😡

[Carrie12345]

Mine is a bit like that, too.  And when he's grocery shopping with DH, he'll pick the cheapest of whatever item even if the one he'd really like is only a dime more.  If I suggest going out to breakfast on a school day, he'll tell me he can pay.  Sigh.  Drives me bonkers.

 

What are you planning to do for financial literacy?  I bought the Life of Fred book, but his politics are clearly very different from mine - not necessarily a bad thing, because it can open discussions, but still, I'd rather have the main thing be more in line with my own views.  I've never read Dave Ramsey, but I suspect he too is pretty far from my POV.

 

We'll be going over the DR program mostly at home, but I'm leaning toward using this free program as the spine for the co-op class I'll be teaching:

http://www.hsfpp.org/

Their website mentions homeschoolers, but their registration specifies non-profits.  Our co-op isn't registered as a non-profit, but it operates as one.  I emailed them and they approved us.  I don't know what their policy for individual homeschoolers might be.

 

Teachers Pay Teachers has some good stuff, too!  Much more than my son's crummy ps course tackled.