s/o when should your kids have sex?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Unless they know the audience, know they aren't going to offend the audience, and have an exhibitionist streak...

 

Yeah I can't imagine this is common between children and their parents (no matter how old the children are).

 

But sure this would be quite different.

[ikslo]

Never.  Because I said so.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Never.  Because I said so.

 

Yeah that is really the first thought that comes to mind.  :laugh:

 

I don't want to think about it really.

[ikslo]

Yeah that is really the first thought that comes to mind.  :laugh:

 

I don't want to think about it really.

 

I know, right?

[J-rap]

As Christians, we've encouraged our children to wait until marriage or in a lifetime relationship.  We believe sex is a truly remarkable thing to share with someone you love, something that is unique to just you two, that you work on and get better at and get into a beautiful rhythm of throughout the years.  It's something you have even when nothing else seems to be going right or awful things have happened and it's the only way to communicate in the midst of despair.  It is something to celebrate with when you're happy, or just really fun when you're bored.  It can help keep you close during a season that is very busy.  It can keep bringing you back together again and again as you naturally evolve into different people throughout your lives.

 

Of course, just because you choose to have sex with other people beforehand doesn't mean that the above can't happen.  

 

But, given what we believe to be a unique and important component in a long-term relationship, plus all the things that can go wrong (unwanted pregnancy, STD's, etc.), plus the emotional drain and confusion that can result, we have encouraged our children to wait.

 

Do we think it's a terrible sin for those who don't wait?  No.

 

If our kids choose differently, we would love them and treat them the same, and wouldn't judge them.

 

I do think the church in the U.S. has been handling this issue very weirdly for some time now.  I can understand why it would put a really bad taste in someone's mouth.

[ktgrok]

By this same logic you'll also never let your kid drive, because a car accident can have life changing consequences.

 

No, by this logic I expect my son to wait to drive until he is old enough and mature enough for a license, and to then follow the rules of the road. 

 

I don't expect him to never drive, and I don't expect him never to have sex. I just hope he will do both those things within certain parameters. As I said above, my preference is for marriage, but I know that may not be his. I'd still hope he confined sex to a committed, monogamous relationship where both parties are mature enough and financially and emotionally stable enough to handle whatever outcome there may be. Just as I expect him not to drive if he can't afford insurance to cover his own or other people's injuries/damage. 

 

I would view casual sex/hook ups on par with driving recklessly. Not an issue of purity or whatever, but as an issue of responsibility, and safety. I don't feel those who have casual sex are immoral, I think they are unwise. 

[poppy]

Not my decision.    My hope is the same as with any hope- that they do things smartly, for what they feel are the right reasons. 

 

I honestly & truly believe some posters here have insanely overinflated paranoia about sex.  There, I said it.  Most people who have sex outside of heterosexual marriage  do not get horrible diseases and have love children/abortions.  Honestly.  I would guess the rate of divorce is just as high. Point being that marriage, like sex, can be a risky emotional choice.  That's OK.  Better to live your life honestly than hide away, so long as you can do so with physical and mental health intact.   Whether that means waiting for marriage/true love, or having lots of adventures, or living a fairly celibate and asexual life.... I just want them to be happy.

[Guest]

As is often the case, Pam in CT has voiced my thoughts (no sardines in the house notwithstanding).

 

I dunno this is all very very weird to me.

 

Did you guys take your parents into consideration when you started having sex??? My parents factored in to that decision zero point zero zero zero per cent!

 

I was raised very religiously, fwiw.

 

I feel like it's my job to protect my kids, bodily, until a certain age....arm them with factual information...yes, I can let my opinion BE KNOWN, because I'm an important person to my kids...but I can't (and definitely do not!) expect my opinions to sway the kids one way or the other. And in any case, in a relationship, the brain that I helped develop isn't the only one involved, so...I come right back to it being my job to make sure they know how to use their brains and then hope for the best.

 

And even if I think "the best" is wait til marriage (I do not), I'd still be hoping for the best because a bad marriage, or a marriage to an unhealthy person is just short of hell on earth. Getting married, even when you ARE fully mature is a roll of the dice!!

 

I presume to have almost no control over adult or nearly-adult people. My personal will does not make the wind blow!

[maize]

As is often the case, Pam in CT has voiced my thoughts (no sardines in the house notwithstanding).

 

I dunno this is all very very weird to me.

 

Did you guys take your parents into consideration when you started having sex??? My parents factored in to that decision zero point zero zero zero per cent!

 

I was raised very religiously, fwiw.

 

I feel like it's my job to protect my kids, bodily, until a certain age....arm them with factual information...yes, I can let my opinion BE KNOWN, because I'm an important person to my kids...but I can't (and definitely do not!) expect my opinions to sway the kids one way or the other. And in any case, in a relationship, the brain that I helped develop isn't the only one involved, so...I come right back to it being my job to make sure they know how to use their brains and then hope for the best.

 

And even if I think "the best" is wait til marriage (I do not), I'd still be hoping for the best because a bad marriage, or a marriage to an unhealthy person is just short of hell on earth. Getting married, even when you ARE fully mature is a roll of the dice!!

 

I presume to have almost no control over adult or nearly-adult people. My personal will does not make the wind blow!

 

Did I take my parents into account? No.

 

But I did take God into account. By the time I was a teenager I had fully adopted my parents' religion as my own, and those values had become my values. Nearly all of my siblings followed a similar path.

 

My parents were a significant factor in that since they taught and lived their faith every day of my growing up years.

Edited March 1, 2016 by maize

[Mergath]

My kids are young, but...when they are ready to be a parent. Emotionally, financially, etc. and when they are in a relationship with someone they are willing to tie themselves to for many years through a shared child.

 

Their dad is firmly in the wait till marriage camp. He didn't date until he was 25, and then we married just a few months later, so I'm not sure how viable his advice on the whole thing is going to be.

 

If I waited to have sex until I felt completely ready to be a parent, I might still be a virgin. Heck, there are days now I don't feel completely ready, and dd is almost eight.  :lol:  

[marbel]

Not my decision.    My hope is the same as with any hope- that they do things smartly, for what they feel are the right reasons. 

 

I honestly & truly believe some posters here have insanely overinflated paranoia about sex.  There, I said it.  Most people who have sex outside of heterosexual marriage  do not get horrible diseases and have love children/abortions.  Honestly.  I would guess the rate of divorce is just as high. Point being that marriage, like sex, can be a risky emotional choice.  That's OK.  Better to live your life honestly than hide away, so long as you can do so with physical and mental health intact.   Whether that means waiting for marriage/true love, or having lots of adventures, or living a fairly celibate and asexual life.... I just want them to be happy.

 

Maybe some of us have seen or even experienced some of the heartaches and other problems that can come from having sex too young and/or too soon in a relationship.

 

 

[poppy]

I'm sure that my parents not associating shame with sexual choices was a factor in my life. Thank goodness.

[maize]

If I waited to have sex until I felt completely ready to be a parent, I might still be a virgin. Heck, there are days now I don't feel completely ready, and dd is almost eight.  :lol:  

 

There's some real truth in that...

[Mergath]

The friends I had in high school who were not virgins confessed to me that the sex was awful. They did it because they thought they were "in love" with their boyfriends and all regretted it after the inevitable breakup. I don't think that the typical sexually active teen boy is a particularly good lover but I have only secondhand knowledge.

 

DH and I waited until we were adults and when we finally had sex, it was satisfying. There's a lot to be said for the privacy that comes with being an adult since we didn't have to sneak around to avoid getting caught by parents or the police. One time in the backseat of a car at the drive-in just for kicks was MORE than enough. Talk about uncomfortable!

 

To me, this is more of an argument in favor of pre-marital sex than anything else. When two people are having sex for the first time, it's almost always awful. I'd had a few partners before I got married, and it was nice to learn from them and figure out what I enjoy (and what I don't). That way, when I was old enough to start thinking about marriage, I had a much better idea what I wanted sexually from a spouse. I was SO naive about those kinds of things when I first started having sex. If I had married that first person, we would have fumbled along having terrible sex for years. I probably would have been put off the whole idea, and I would have missed out on a lot.

 

I seriously can't imagine getting married when I've never had sex, my potential spouse has never had sex, and we have no idea if we're compatible in that area. I mean, you look for compatibility in all other areas. You don't marry someone you've never talked to and just hope that you'll have decent conversations, or that after years you'll eventually get to the point where you can chat with each other and it won't be awful. Why is sex so different? 

[Danestress]

I tell my boys all the reasons I think waiting is better.

 

But I also tell them that when they think they are ready, not to do it on a whim. Take the woman to lunch or on a walk (I am assuming this is in the context of a relationship). Tell her where you would like things to be heading. Ask her to think about it.reassure her that you like her and respect her if she wants to wait.

 

I figure if you are adult enough for sex, you are adult enough to be honest, respectful, and cautious.

[Joanne]

I don't believe in unchaperoned dating in high school. I also prefer a "courtship" model, though not the creepy, patriarchal version.

 

I think dating should be for adults who are ready to seriously think about finding a future spouse. Not necessarily marrying right away, but the end goal of dating should be figuring out if the boyfriend/girlfriend is marriage material. I don't believe in casual relationships "just for fun". If you KNOW that you do not want to marry the other person, you shouldn't be involved with him/her at all.

I want to date - to date. I have no intention of a long term, cohabitating, or necessarily committed relationship.

 

I can't imagine expecting another grown adult - even my own kid - to embrace that dating IS only for spouse finding.

[Tsuga]

I have definitely known all of my life that I was an accident.  I was given up for adoption!

 

My mom decided not to adopt me out  when she learned that her neighbor, who screamed at and spanked her kids, was their adoptive mom! She thought about abortion but couldn't decide. I was definitely an accident.

 

Most kids are unplanned. Being unplanned does not mean unloved, unwanted, or unnecessary. Life begets life, that's why you're here. "Because my parents did everything the church said and had a piece of paper saying they could" as a reason for existence pales in comparison to the cosmic beauty of life itself.

 

 

 

Maybe some of us have seen or even experienced some of the heartaches and other problems that can come from having sex too young and/or too soon in a relationship.

 

Maybe those heartaches are inevitable. Many people here went through a lot of what others faced even having waited until marriage, only we had the compound trouble of paying for a divorce lawyer. UGH.

[regentrude]

I think dating should be for adults who are ready to seriously think about finding a future spouse. Not necessarily marrying right away, but the end goal of dating should be figuring out if the boyfriend/girlfriend is marriage material. I don't believe in casual relationships "just for fun". If you KNOW that you do not want to marry the other person, you shouldn't be involved with him/her at all.

 

That's a lot of "shoulds" in one paragraph.

 

1. What is wrong with dating "just for fun"? Dating does not mean sleeping around. It can be enjoying companionship in other ways.

 

2. Why are you equating "do not want to marry" with "casual relationship just for fun"?

There are many reasons people may choose not to marry. That does not make them promiscuous hussies.

[Ravin]

As is often the case, Pam in CT has voiced my thoughts (no sardines in the house notwithstanding).

 

I dunno this is all very very weird to me.

 

Did you guys take your parents into consideration when you started having sex??? My parents factored in to that decision zero point zero zero zero per cent!

 

I was raised very religiously, fwiw.

 

I feel like it's my job to protect my kids, bodily, until a certain age....arm them with factual information...yes, I can let my opinion BE KNOWN, because I'm an important person to my kids...but I can't (and definitely do not!) expect my opinions to sway the kids one way or the other. And in any case, in a relationship, the brain that I helped develop isn't the only one involved, so...I come right back to it being my job to make sure they know how to use their brains and then hope for the best.

 

And even if I think "the best" is wait til marriage (I do not), I'd still be hoping for the best because a bad marriage, or a marriage to an unhealthy person is just short of hell on earth. Getting married, even when you ARE fully mature is a roll of the dice!!

 

I presume to have almost no control over adult or nearly-adult people. My personal will does not make the wind blow!

 

Not really. They were far, far away. I was not under their roof. They had no authority over me (I was in the Navy). Though I came close my senior year (prom night), and could have, because they didn't keep me on a very short leash.  I had a job and a car and the guy had his own apartment...if I'd been ready, i would have.

 

I did when I decided I was ready (and deliberately chose to lose my virginity in a hook-up situation, planned ahead that that was what I was going to do and that the guy was the one I wanted to do it with, because I thought he was good looking, I was attracted to him physically, he was experienced, and he was fresh out of boot camp, which mean he'd been very recently screened for STD's).

 

Really all I can ask for my kids is that the have the freedom to become sexually active for their own reasons, when they are ready, with a compatible and willing partner, and not because someone else pressured them into anything.

[Bluegoat]

Not my decision. My hope is the same as with any hope- that they do things smartly, for what they feel are the right reasons.

 

I honestly & truly believe some posters here have insanely overinflated paranoia about sex. There, I said it. Most people who have sex outside of heterosexual marriage do not get horrible diseases and have love children/abortions. Honestly. I would guess the rate of divorce is just as high. Point being that marriage, like sex, can be a risky emotional choice. That's OK. Better to live your life honestly than hide away, so long as you can do so with physical and mental health intact. Whether that means waiting for marriage/true love, or having lots of adventures, or living a fairly celibate and asexual life.... I just want them to be happy.

I think the rate of Std related issues is higher than many think. My husband was talking to an ent dr a few days ago and was very surprised to find out how often he sees cancers caused by hpv.

 

Clammydia (sp?) is really common among teens and increasingly, the elderly, and resistant versions are becoming more and more common.

 

I've wondered if antibiotic resistance might not lead to a significant change in sexual practices in a generation.

[Guest]

STDs are insanely rampant.

 

They aren't super deadly. But they're ubiquitous.

 

It is something to take into consideration.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I didn't/don't phrase it as should but more my opinion. I also give other opinions. My big push is for maturity, responsibility, safety and relationship.

[PeachyDoodle]

To me, this is more of an argument in favor of pre-marital sex than anything else. When two people are having sex for the first time, it's almost always awful. I'd had a few partners before I got married, and it was nice to learn from them and figure out what I enjoy (and what I don't). That way, when I was old enough to start thinking about marriage, I had a much better idea what I wanted sexually from a spouse. I was SO naive about those kinds of things when I first started having sex. If I had married that first person, we would have fumbled along having terrible sex for years. I probably would have been put off the whole idea, and I would have missed out on a lot.

 

I seriously can't imagine getting married when I've never had sex, my potential spouse has never had sex, and we have no idea if we're compatible in that area. I mean, you look for compatibility in all other areas. You don't marry someone you've never talked to and just hope that you'll have decent conversations, or that after years you'll eventually get to the point where you can chat with each other and it won't be awful. Why is sex so different? 

 

As someone who got married when I'd never had sex, and married a spouse who'd also never had sex, I can say that there is some truth to what you're saying. Our wedding night was not fireworks, by any stretch of the imagination. On top of not really knowing what we were doing, we were EXHAUSTED. It did take us awhile to figure out what worked for us, certainly. But the whole learning process was fun, and solidified our relationship. We learned together what was best for each of us. There is a learning curve for sex, no matter when you start or who you start with. It's not a bad thing to experience that learning curve as a couple, within the confines of a relationship that's committed for life. It was a safe space for us to learn and grow in, together.

 

Having only ever had one partner, I don't know what to say about compatibility. We are compatible sexually because we are compatible emotionally, intellectually, etc. We are compatible because we've grown to be so. We love each other, and we express that love, sexually, by each discovering what works for the other person and striving to each meet the other's needs. In that way, our sex life resembles the rest of our marriage. We are compatible because we choose to be. Maybe we're missing out on something (or just really lucky that we turned out to be a good sexual match), but I kind of doubt it.

 

 

That's a lot of "shoulds" in one paragraph.

 

1. What is wrong with dating "just for fun"? Dating does not mean sleeping around. It can be enjoying companionship in other ways.

 

2. Why are you equating "do not want to marry" with "casual relationship just for fun"?

There are many reasons people may choose not to marry. That does not make them promiscuous hussies.

 

I read a really interesting interview awhile back with a woman who came of age sometime in the first half of the 20th century (I don't remember when, exactly -- 20's or 30's maybe?). I was fascinated by the way she described attitudes towards dating when she was young. Her parents actually ENCOURAGED her to date as many young men as possible. By dating, of course, she meant going out dancing or whatever, no sex involved. But their theory was that this actually helped to curb premature sexual relationships by keeping young people from becoming too committed too quickly. It allowed them to get to know one another, and get to know what they were looking for in a potential partner, before getting serious with any one person. It seemed from the way she described it that this was the norm for her peer group. I wonder if our current view, which seems often to peg young women who go out with one guy on Friday night and another on Saturday as sluts, actually does young people a disservice in this regard. The extreme courtship model that requires a couple to more or less agree to marry before they can even date is an overreaction in the opposite direction. I wish I could find the interview, but I have no idea where I saw it.

[Xahm]

I seriously can't imagine getting married when I've never had sex, my potential spouse has never had sex, and we have no idea if we're compatible in that area. I mean, you look for compatibility in all other areas. You don't marry someone you've never talked to and just hope that you'll have decent conversations, or that after years you'll eventually get to the point where you can chat with each other and it won't be awful. Why is sex so different?

. I've heard this argument lots, and to me it's weak. There may be some people with something strange that makes them sexually attracted to one another but unable to sexually please one another, but that would be unusual, probably medical, and could appear later in marriage. Wedding night sex between virgins is awkward, but practice makes perfect and most who've waited are plenty excited about the chance to practice.

I would be wary in a situation where the couple, or one part of the couple, has absolutely no trouble waiting for the wedding night. That could speak to a mismatch in physical attraction that could be problematic.

FTR, I have no problem with adults following their own belief system regarding sex, even if I have different standards for myself, as long as they are responsible and the relationship is consensual.

[Crimson Wife]

 

My kids and I have also discussed the higher divorce rates associated with early marriage, and the commensurate higher probability that kids will be affected by divorce. 

 

There was a statistic in one of my college psychology textbooks about how as long as both the bride and groom were at least 21 and neither had been married previously, there is actually NO correlation between age at marriage and divorce risk after controlling for education and income. That is, a 22 year old upper-middle-class college graduate bride had the EXACT SAME risk for divorce as a 32 year old upper-middle-class college graduate bride.

 

This was a very handy statistic to have on hand in the argument I had with my parents when they claimed I was "too young" to get married and that I should wait to the "proper" age (30 +/- maybe a couple years).

[Laura Corin]

I am glad that I didn't marry the first man I had a settled relationship with.  I had all these feelings and he was a really nice, steady guy who was building an excellent career in aerospace.  We had been going out regularly for some months.  Then we had sex and it was fine.  Over time it was more than fine.

 

But what I discovered was that all those feelings weren't love: they were pent up sexual desire for a really nice bloke.  It's possible that if I had married him, I could have learned to love him.  But I vividly remember the morning-after disappearance of all the 'love'.  I still liked him a lot, and fancied him rotten, but the 'love' had evaporated.

 

Laura (committed relationship for 28 years; married for 24)

Edited March 1, 2016 by Laura Corin

[Crimson Wife]

I want to date - to date. I have no intention of a long term, cohabitating, or necessarily committed relationship.

 

I can't imagine expecting another grown adult - even my own kid - to embrace that dating IS only for spouse finding.

 

Each of us has free will and is free do what he/she wants within the boundaries of the law. Do what you wish- you are the one who will have to answer for your actions to a higher authority some day. We're all sinners and every last one of us is in need of forgiveness for the mistakes we have made.

[Laura Corin]

Each of us has free will and is free do what he/she wants within the boundaries of the law. Do what you wish- you are the one who will have to answer for your actions to a higher authority some day. We're all sinners and every last one of us is in need of forgiveness for the mistakes we have made.

 

Or not.

 

For the sake of courtesy, it might be an idea to preface this kind of statement with 'I believe...'

[regentrude]

Each of us has free will and is free do what he/she wants within the boundaries of the law. Do what you wish- you are the one who will have to answer for your actions to a higher authority some day. We're all sinners and every last one of us is in need of forgiveness for the mistakes we have made.

 

wow...

[Mergath]

. I've heard this argument lots, and to me it's weak. There may be some people with something strange that makes them sexually attracted to one another but unable to sexually please one another, but that would be unusual, probably medical, and could appear later in marriage. Wedding night sex between virgins is awkward, but practice makes perfect and most who've waited are plenty excited about the chance to practice.

I would be wary in a situation where the couple, or one part of the couple, has absolutely no trouble waiting for the wedding night. That could speak to a mismatch in physical attraction that could be problematic.

FTR, I have no problem with adults following their own belief system regarding sex, even if I have different standards for myself, as long as they are responsible and the relationship is consensual.

 

I don't think learning what you want in a partner before you commit to spend a lifetime with one person is a weak argument. There's a lot more to sexual compatibility than the initial physical attraction. Frequency, for example, is a big problem for some people. Two virgins might be wildly attracted to each other, then get married and find out that she wants it daily (or more!) and he's fine once a week, or vice versa. Or one person might discover they like it wild and kinky while their partner wants a more gentle, emotionally-centered sexual relationship. These are the things you don't learn about yourself until after you've been doing it a while, and differences in compatibility have contributed to ending more than one marriage. Marriage is a big commitment. The more you know about yourself and your needs going in, the better off you'll be.

 

Of course, saying that sex is an important part of a relationship and you need compatibility in that area has gotten more than one woman branded (or here on the forums, implied subtly to be) a slut. If you love someone, the sex will just work itself out. Sex is dirty and even thinking about it before marriage is immoral. Sex is only for making babies, so just think about Jesus and everything will be fine. Yeah, that might work for the first few years, but thirty years down the road, not so much.

 

To each her own, obviously, but I think the arguments for waiting until marriage are much weaker. 

[bibiche]

. I've heard this argument lots, and to me it's weak. There may be some people with something strange that makes them sexually attracted to one another but unable to sexually please one another, but that would be unusual, probably medical, and could appear later in marriage. Wedding night sex between virgins is awkward, but practice makes perfect and most who've waited are plenty excited about the chance to practice.

I would be wary in a situation where the couple, or one part of the couple, has absolutely no trouble waiting for the wedding night. That could speak to a mismatch in physical attraction that could be problematic.

FTR, I have no problem with adults following their own belief system regarding sex, even if I have different standards for myself, as long as they are responsible and the relationship is consensual.

What happens if you find out that you are wildly mismatched? That your brand new husband is a premature ejaculator or can only get off looking at porn? Or that your new wife is frigid? I can't imagine spending an entire marriage being profoundly dissatisfied sexually.

 

I ask for samples of cheese and ice cream before I buy them because I want to make sure I like them first. I can't imagine making a bigger purchase totally uninformed!

[Mergath]

Each of us has free will and is free do what he/she wants within the boundaries of the law. Do what you wish- you are the one who will have to answer for your actions to a higher authority some day. We're all sinners and every last one of us is in need of forgiveness for the mistakes we have made.

 

Well bless your tiny, dogmatic heart.

[Katy]

nm

Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[Crimson Wife]

 

I seriously can't imagine getting married when I've never had sex, my potential spouse has never had sex, and we have no idea if we're compatible in that area. 

 

Is it REALLY that hard to tell if you've got chemistry with a guy before you've had intercourse with him? I knew within an hour of meeting my DH that we had chemistry even if we didn't do anything more than kiss that first evening and WAAAAAAAAY before I ever went "all the way" with him. That is actually the EASIEST part IMHO of figuring out whether a boyfriend/girlfriend would make a good spouse because it's so obvious when the sparks are flying (even if the couple chooses not to turn those sparks into a roaring bonfire right away).

[Mergath]

Is it REALLY that hard to tell if you've got chemistry with a guy before you've had intercourse with him? I knew within an hour of meeting my DH that we had chemistry even if we didn't do anything more than kiss that first evening and WAAAAAAAAY before I ever went "all the way" with him. That is actually the EASIEST part IMHO of figuring out whether a boyfriend/girlfriend would make a good spouse because it's so obvious when the sparks are flying (even if the couple chooses not to turn those sparks into a roaring bonfire right away).

 

Did you even read my last post? Chemistry and sexual compatibility are NOT the same thing at all.

[Tsuga]

I'm the same age so it's not a generational thing. Maybe it's a Catholic thing?

 

My parents made DH sleep on the pull-out sofa when he visited their home a few days before we got married. I even said something to them about that because they hadn't made my aunt's boyfriend (not fiance) sleep on the sofa on a visit shortly prior, and the answer was, "you're our child so that's different".

 

It must be cultural. We're hoping that we can provide our parents with some happy years with us in the event they are not ready for group living. How would that be possible, or living at home through college if you marry young, if you don't have sex under the same roof as your parents?

[bibiche]

Each of us has free will and is free do what he/she wants within the boundaries of the law. Do what you wish- you are the one who will have to answer for your actions to a higher authority some day. We're all sinners and every last one of us is in need of forgiveness for the mistakes we have made.

Thanks. I am making a list of qualities I want my ideal god to have, and this has reminded me to add "Will send intolerant judgey people back as those they have judged to be judged by themselves in their previous incarnation." My God will be awesome.

[Tsuga]

Also, can I say... People who have only had sex with one person don't really know the relationship between chemistry and sexual compatibility. Even I only know that it's not directly related. You need more data points.

 

A woman who has only been with one man can only say the sex she has is better than no sex. She can't speak to the quality because she has nothing to compare it to. I have only two experiences and I know the second blows the first out of the water, I mean I thought I knew what an orgasm was.

 

Uh, no.

 

So I think this particular side of the debate will go nowhere.

[Tsuga]

Thanks. I am making a list of qualities I want my ideal god to have, and this has reminded me to add "Will send intolerant judgey people back as those they have judged to be judged by themselves in their previous incarnation." My God will be awesome.

The joy of love and compassion is so much greater than the clammy calm of self-satisfaction that justice has already been served. Even if they will never know it.

[6packofun]

What happens if you find out that you are wildly mismatched? That your brand new husband is a premature ejaculator or can only get off looking at porn? Or that your new wife is frigid? I can't imagine spending an entire marriage being profoundly dissatisfied sexually.

 

I ask for samples of cheese and ice cream before I buy them because I want to make sure I like them first. I can't imagine making a bigger purchase totally uninformed!

 

What happens when your husband BECOMES unable to maintain an erection?  What happens to a man whose wife BECOMES uninterested in sex?  None of these things are insurmountable and many of them can be determined by having something called a conversation.  LOL  I mean, I asked my dh if he had looked at porn or what he'd done sexually before we got engaged.  And I'm a fuddy duddy conservative Christian woman.  :P   And I'm pretty sure that a "frigid" woman gives off that vibe to someone who is trying to be intimate with her without having intercourse.  

 

What IS sexual compatibility?  When I talk to people about it, it usually tends to end up being that they have the same drive, desire sex the same amount on a regular basis, and like each other's parts and what they do with them.  Are these things truly not something people can compromise on?  I know countless happily married couples--including my own marriage--where there IS incompatibility...and that is an opportunity to love, serve, give and compromise for the good of the other!  Next question that always gets asked is, "Well, what if the person doesn't WANT to compromise??"  Then you might be with a loser and sex has nothing to do with the personality you chose.

 

As for what I tell my children...I TELL them that I had sex before marriage and it added not a single thing to my satisfaction as a married woman.  It didn't help me choose a spouse, it didn't give me any advantage in marriage that we could (and have) figured out all on our own together.  But I also tell them that there will be clues about who might be a sexually generous person.  Yes, something who will be generous with their bodies and desires and willingness to please.  No one fully knows who they are marrying, even if they do have sex before marriage.  But boy, there are plenty of SIGNS along the way as to whether that person has hang-ups, issues, selfishness, etc. that will translate into the bedroom!  I tell them to TALK and ASK questions about the other person's expectations and sexual past, even just their thoughts on it if that person is a virgin, too.  And no, it's not the worst thing to give in to temptation, but we aim for the best we can and give logical reasons for waiting and being extremely thoughtful about choosing a partner, hopefully for life.

[Crimson Wife]

 Frequency, for example, is a big problem for some people. Two virgins might be wildly attracted to each other, then get married and find out that she wants it daily (or more!) and he's fine once a week, or vice versa.

 

Our church required premarital couples' counseling with a MFT and this topic was actually discussed in our sessions. The MFT advised a "don't turn your spouse down unless you have a REALLY good reason to" policy and keeping a stock of supplies to help facilitate getting the initially reluctant spouse in the mood IYKWIM. Totally embarrassing at the time but it did turn out to be great advice.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Also, can I say... People who have only had sex with one person don't really know the relationship between chemistry and sexual compatibility. Even I only know that it's not directly related. You need more data points.

 

A woman who has only been with one man can only say the sex she has is better than no sex. She can't speak to the quality because she has nothing to compare it to. I have only two experiences and I know the second blows the first out of the water, I mean I thought I knew what an orgasm was.

 

Uh, no.

 

So I think this particular side of the debate will go nowhere.

 

Then again, I don't think it is wrong if someone has only been with one person.  The most important thing really is that if someone cares about their partner and isn't selfish all the time, things will usually fall into place.  Honestly if I had my pick between a person who shared my values and wants in life verses someone who was hot in the sack, I'd pick the most boring person in the sack verses someone who wasn't someone I could live with for the other reasons.  But that is what is most important to me and maybe not other people. 

So while I don't share the same religious beliefs and approaches to relationships that others do, saying something like this in response isn't really less judgmental. 

[Xahm]

I don't think learning what you want in a partner before you commit to spend a lifetime with one person is a weak argument. There's a lot more to sexual compatibility than the initial physical attraction. Frequency, for example, is a big problem for some people. Two virgins might be wildly attracted to each other, then get married and find out that she wants it daily (or more!) and he's fine once a week, or vice versa. Or one person might discover they like it wild and kinky while their partner wants a more gentle, emotionally-centered sexual relationship. These are the things you don't learn about yourself until after you've been doing it a while, and differences in compatibility have contributed to ending more than one marriage. Marriage is a big commitment. The more you know about yourself and your needs going in, the better off you'll be.

 

Of course, saying that sex is an important part of a relationship and you need compatibility in that area has gotten more than one woman branded (or here on the forums, implied subtly to be) a slut. If you love someone, the sex will just work itself out. Sex is dirty and even thinking about it before marriage is immoral. Sex is only for making babies, so just think about Jesus and everything will be fine. Yeah, that might work for the first few years, but thirty years down the road, not so much.

 

To each her own, obviously, but I think the arguments for waiting until marriage are much weaker. 

I agree that the arguments for waiting until marriage are pretty weak unless you belong to a religion and believe that's what you should do. That's why I generally expect adults in committed relationships to be having sex. It bothers me if they profess to believe the same things as I do and just have sex anyway, but if they don't share those religious beliefs, or I'm not close enough to them to have that kind of conversation, it's live and let live for me. 

I think my feelings on this are also affected by the fact I wasn't ever part of that "everything past a handshake is sin" persuasion. My fiance knew very well before we got married that I was not frigid, and we did have conversations about sex, what we expected, how we'd deal with problems, and so on. We are somewhat odd in our forthrightness, perhaps.

For what it's worth, I hope my kids will follow our religious path as their own, chose to wait until they find the mate that's right for them, and be married for life to that person. I will also (they are super young now, so this is a "best of intentions" thing) make sure they know about sex, consent, birth control, std prevention, and what to do if they or a friend gets in some sort of trouble. I'll make sure they have two ways to access birth control and condoms, one through me so I can also offer advice and one anonymous so they can access it if they are too embarrassed. I hope they'll use that information to be a great resource for their friends and then later so that they can know it all for their marriage, but I know they may choose differently. If they don't believe that God calls them to celibacy before marriage, I do hope they'll wait until they've graduated high school and gained some maturity, and I will put rules in place to make that more likely. Oh, and there is no "sex is dirty, only for making babies" in our particular culture. I've seen it in neighboring cultures and agree that's a problem.

[Mergath]

Our church required premarital couples' counseling with a MFT and this topic was actually discussed in our sessions. The MFT advised a "don't turn your spouse down unless you have a REALLY good reason to" policy and keeping a stock of supplies to help facilitate getting the initially reluctant spouse in the mood IYKWIM. Totally embarrassing at the time but it did turn out to be great advice.

 

IME, having regular sex out of obligation even when you don't want to because your spouse has a much higher sex drive isn't great for a marriage.

[Tsuga]

It is not true that frigid women give off that vibe. My partner's ex is a PRIME example, unless he's a liar. She is an amazing flirt--so much so that in my brief encounters with her during her marriage and subsequent two boyfriends, I was amazed. I asked my partner of that bothered him, that she was so much more affectionate with them than she ever was with him.

 

He said no, that wasn't it at all. She was all over him before and during marriage.

 

She just didn't like sex!

 

You can't tell at all.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Our church required premarital couples' counseling with a MFT and this topic was actually discussed in our sessions. The MFT advised a "don't turn your spouse down unless you have a REALLY good reason to" policy and keeping a stock of supplies to help facilitate getting the initially reluctant spouse in the mood IYKWIM. Totally embarrassing at the time but it did turn out to be great advice.

 

I think it's rather shitty advice.  There could be reasons it can't happen all the time.  Reasons that can't be controlled.  If someone is under the impression it is owed to them that could be a real problem.  That is precisely the type of person I would not be compatible with.

[Crimson Wife]

Also, can I say... People who have only had sex with one person don't really know the relationship between chemistry and sexual compatibility. Even I only know that it's not directly related. You need more data points.

 

A woman who has only been with one man can only say the sex she has is better than no sex. She can't speak to the quality because she has nothing to compare it to. I have only two experiences and I know the second blows the first out of the water, I mean I thought I knew what an orgasm was.

 

Uh, no.

 

So I think this particular side of the debate will go nowhere.

 

There are other ways of getting gratification aside from intercourse and all my fellow current/former military wives will say thank goodness for that!

[Χά�ων]

Our church required premarital couples' counseling with a MFT and this topic was actually discussed in our sessions. The MFT advised a "don't turn your spouse down unless you have a REALLY good reason to" policy and keeping a stock of supplies to help facilitate getting the initially reluctant spouse in the mood IYKWIM. Totally embarrassing at the time but it did turn out to be great advice.

Hold up. You were told that a spouse should not to turn down sex unless they have a really good reason and then given tools to push the other person into having sex??!

 

If one of us says no, the other respects it. No reason needed to be given. No pushing. No trying to get the other into the mood. No means no. I am disgusted that anything else would be taught or viewed as acceptable.

[Xahm]

By the way, the argument for premarital sex (between consenting adults who are either on birth control or ready for a baby) that I believe is strong is "We enjoy it, it brings us closer together, we love each other and are responsible, so why the heck not?" 

 

Someone above made the comment that two virgins are also not going to know what they are missing made a good point. For all I know, the sex I have with my husband is not as good as the sex I could be having with someone else out there, but that doesn't matter at all to me. What I have with him is amazing and satisfying and, most importantly, is with him. If it were not satisfying to both of us, we would go to doctors and counselors, because that is important to both of us.

[Χά�ων]

There are other ways of getting gratification aside from intercourse and all my fellow current/former military wives will say thank goodness for that!

Somethings cannot be replaced.