s/o when should your kids have sex?

[Crimson Wife]

 

Ds is 18. He and his girlfriend have been dating for 2 years. We (including her parents) are aware of their activity and have talked to them, plus she's taking bc pills. Beyond that (discussions), at this point it's their choice. 

 

I don't believe in unchaperoned dating in high school. I also prefer a "courtship" model, though not the creepy, patriarchal version.

 

I think dating should be for adults who are ready to seriously think about finding a future spouse. Not necessarily marrying right away, but the end goal of dating should be figuring out if the boyfriend/girlfriend is marriage material. I don't believe in casual relationships "just for fun". If you KNOW that you do not want to marry the other person, you shouldn't be involved with him/her at all.

[Melissa in Australia]

wait until you are ready for the possibility of having a child. best wait until married, but if you don't remember the family is super fertile and you will probably end up with a child. if you are not ready for that possibility then wait.

 

 

I have lots of examples with my brothers and sisters to show what happens if you don't wait.

[kewb]

I have told mine that it is best to wait until you are prepared to take responsibility for the baby you may create. If you are not in a position to take responsibility then you are not ready to have sex.

 

I have also told them that if they are too embarrassed to buy condoms then they are not ready to have sex.

 

Most importantly I have told them that sex is something they should want to do. Anyone who says "if you loved me you would" does not love you. For if they loved you they would wait until you were ready. That you only get one first ever time. And before they give that moment away they should be sure it is whom they want to have that memory with.

Edited March 1, 2016 by kewb

[abba12]

I don't believe in unchaperoned dating in high school. I also prefer a "courtship" model, though not the creepy, patriarchal version.

 

I think dating should be for adults who are ready to seriously think about finding a future spouse. Not necessarily marrying right away, but the end goal of dating should be figuring out if the boyfriend/girlfriend is marriage material. I don't believe in casual relationships "just for fun". If you KNOW that you do not want to marry the other person, you shouldn't be involved with him/her at all.

 

It's nice to see someone hold that opinion in a not-creepy-patriarchal way! I would probably consider allowing dating at 16 but that's partly influenced by the fact I was engaged at 17 myself, and have no regrets. But even then, I think family interaction and group dynamics are just as important as the one-on-one time, and possibly moreso. It's in a group that you'll see how your potential spouse actually acts. I remember many, many family lunches with my DH when we were dating, and going out ice skating as a group. We got our alone time too, he always drove me home, and we had some one-on-one dates like movies and a bushwalk we did, it wasn't strict, but the group setting was also emphasized and many of my best memories of that time was in groups. 

 

The purpose of dating is to find a spouse, we don't believe in casual dating for fun. If you have no intentions of marrying them you should end the relationship, for lots of reasons, in my personal opinion. I don't see anything healthy in going through lots of boyfriends/girlfriends for the sake of it.

 

Obviously, though, this is a hugely divisive topic and my family is pretty counter cultural here. 

[Chris in VA]

I'm amused by the not marrying before 30 thing lol. I suppose if you're wanting to delay marriage that long, it makes a lot of sense that many people would not want to delay sex that long. Encouraging late marriage AND no sex would be hard. 

 

As for me, I married at 18 and had my first baby at 19 lol! (and sex had nothing to do with it, I wasn't a virgin, though my husband and I did not have sex between us until our wedding night and he was a virgin, but he was quite happy to remain that way many years longer if need be.)

 

I have no regrets at all, though young marriages do have some unique challenges and I think a large portion of them fail simply because of unrealistic and immature expectations, they also have some unique benefits in my personal opinion. I wouldn't dissuade my kids from marrying young, but I would also talk very seriously about expectations and maturity and knowing fully what they're getting into, but that's the kind of thing I hope to talk to them about all through adolescence, what relationships truly look like. 

 

I was surprised to find my clergy husband is in favor of young marriages. I guess he's in the "it's unrealistic to expect people to wait until they are older for sex" camp.

 

Me, I'm not sure why people say "I wouldn't want to be the 40 Year Old Virgin!!"

 

Why not? To me, that's awfully judgy, like it would be unhealthy or proof that one is abnormal. I think it would show a person has a lot of self-control, and the ability to hold to what they hold as a higher value. (That's if they are still a virgin because they are waiting for marriage or a committed relationship--I would consider it abnormal to not have had *any* relationships by that time, but still, it happens.)

 

ETA--that last part isn't directed at you, abba, or anyone here--just the hypothetical person out there.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Chris in VA

[Annie G]

 

I have also told them that if they are too embarrassed to buy condoms then they are not ready to have sex.

 

 

 

That's a good point- if they can't walk in and buy condoms from a random clerk, how are they going to have the necessary and sometimes awkward conversations with their partner?   (I guess they don't have to buy them, but procure them somehow.)

[maize]

Our church teaches that sexual relations are sacred and should be between a husband and wife only.

 

That is what I teach my children.

 

I also teach them that other people follow different standards and we should be respectful to those who believe differently than us. I teach that as mortals we sometimes make wrong choices and we can repent and be forgiven. I teach that if they are the victim of someone else's inappropriate sexual behavior they carry no fault or shame.

[Renthead Mommy]

I am in the 'when you are ready' camp.

 

And I am big on the 'remember sex makes babies and is also the cause of STD's' so be careful. 

 

The NO SEX until marriage idea bothers me, because to too many young people 'no sex,' because it causes babies tends to mean anal and oral sex.   They see it as  "I'm not having sex,  just getting oral/anal and that is not sex because you can't get pregnant that way." 

 

And the worse part about that is most of the time it is girls only giving the oral, receiving the anal.  So they are doing all the giving and getting nothing of the positive side of sex in return. 

[abba12]

I was surprised to find my clergy husband is in favor of young marriages. I guess he's in the "it's unrealistic to expect people to wait until they are older for sex" camp.

 

Me, I'm not sure why people say "I wouldn't want to be the 40 Year Old Virgin!!"

 

Why not? To me, that's awfully judgy, like it would be unhealthy or proof that one is abnormal. I think it would show a person has a lot of self-control, and the ability to hold to what they hold as a higher value. (That's if they are still a virgin because they are waiting for marriage or a committed relationship--I would consider it abnormal to not have had *any* relationships by that time, but still, it happens.)

 

ETA--that last part isn't directed at you, abba, or anyone here--just the hypothetical person out there.

 

I know it wasn't directed at me, but just wanted to say, I know a 28yo male virgin, I know a woman who was a virgin until she married at 32 and I know a 40 year old virgin who will likely never marry. I have a lot of respect for them, that's a hard road! lol. 

 

My comment was more aimed that, I think a large portion of kids, if expected to wait until 30 or 40 for sex, would fail. A lot of people don't have that self control, so it would be a hard pair of beliefs to encourage together and expect frequent success with. Some successes, definitely, they're out there and they're highly admirable! But it's a very, very high standard to be held to. In biblical times, where the 'wait until marriage' part comes from, people married far younger, it would be strange to be single at 25. Even until fairly recently, more people married before 25 than after. Marrying late in life is a more modern concept that, merged with not having sex, is pretty tricky. 

[abba12]

The NO SEX until marriage idea bothers me, because to too many young people 'no sex,' because it causes babies tends to mean anal and oral sex.   They see it as  "I'm not having sex,  just getting oral/anal and that is not sex because you can't get pregnant that way." 

 

And the worse part about that is most of the time it is girls only giving the oral, receiving the anal.  So they are doing all the giving and getting nothing of the positive side of sex in return. 

 

That's not been my experience. I am well aware there is a group of people who believe and act on this, definitely. But there is also a large group for whom no sex means nothing more than kissing. Most of my waiting-until-marriage friends would not touch breasts/allow their breasts to be touched. I would like to think the 'no sex means anal' crowd is a minority, one I intend to speak to my kids about directly. 

[Scarlett]

Good god, I didn't get married until I was almost 37. I can't imagine having waited. I would have practically been the 40 year old virgin if I did. :lol:

 

 

 

^^^This^^^

 

 

^^^And this. ^^^

 

 

Ds is 18. He and his girlfriend have been dating for 2 years. We (including her parents) are aware of their activity and have talked to them, plus she's taking bc pills. Beyond that (discussions), at this point it's their choice.

This seems so strange to me. Where is their activity taking place? I assume your son is still living at home.

[Scarlett]

I am in the 'when you are ready' camp.

 

And I am big on the 'remember sex makes babies and is also the cause of STD's' so be careful.

 

The NO SEX until marriage idea bothers me, because to too many young people 'no sex,' because it causes babies tends to mean anal and oral sex. They see it as "I'm not having sex, just getting oral/anal and that is not sex because you can't get pregnant that way."

 

And the worse part about that is most of the time it is girls only giving the oral, receiving the anal. So they are doing all the giving and getting nothing of the positive side of sex in return.

No sex until marriage is taught to our children as including all of those things. Because the no sex until marriage is about more than getting pregnant.

 

I am teaching my son that he has to decide whose standards to go by....and he has committed to go by Gods standards. I also tell him that his very capable of controlling himself in order to abide by those standards.

[goldberry]

One piece of advice I received (which I did not follow) was not to have sex with anyone I wasn't prepared to have in my life for the rest of it, because if there was a baby, married or not, that guy was going to be in my life. 

 

 

This is SO TRUE.

[maize]

I really don't get either "it's too hard to expect kids to wait" or "being a forty year old virgin is lame".

 

I know lots of people of all ages who choose to remain chaste outside of marriage. Yes it is possible to make it through the raging hormones of the teen years without acting on those urges; once the body and brain are mature self control is even easier. This is something that humans are capable of choosing, either for purely personal reasons or from a desire to obey a perceived higher law.

 

I waited.

Dh waited.

I expect my kids to wait.

 

It's not about worshiping virginity; if they slip up, they can repent and go right back to choosing chastity and waiting for the sanctity of marriage.

 

There is confidence in choosing self control.

[AimeeM]

This - pretty much exactly.

 

I will also note that we tell our children (well, our DD, since our boys are too young to discuss the when and how) not to have sex until they are ready to have children. We do not advocate birth control, but my children do/will know what it is, and the purpose of it - and that no birth control (outside of abstinence) is 100% effective, always, so they should always understand that sex *can* result in pregnancy.

We're a wait until marriage family, I hope my children will and I'll teach them about why we believe it's important to wait and how we believe God designed marriage and sex. 

 

(but, for the record, sex before marriage is NOT the most heinous sin in existence, and if one did have sex before marriage we would still love, accept and support them, while disapproving of that choice. I've seen some wait-until-marriage families who act as if sex before marriage is the ultimate sin and destroys you for life, forever. *rolls eyes*  ). 

 

[SKL]

Let's see, we just had this conversation the other day.  I think I told them that they shouldn't have sex until they are grown up, preferably not until marriage.  But it was just said in passing in between a couple of more important discussions.

 

I would rather my kids wait until they are in their 20s, because I feel it is more likely then to be a mature-ish decision.  I'm not hung up about whether they are married or not.  I think the reason I said "preferably not until marriage" was partly because that sets a sort of threshold in their mind, and partly because that is probably what they are hearing in school.  I wouldn't want them to go and tell their teacher that their mom has a lax view of these things.  :P  Especially since I am an unmarried mom myself.

[Tanaqui]

I have a lot of respect for them, that's a hard road! lol.

 

Not necessarily. Some people aren't very interested in sex, or even find it distasteful. Humans are really amazingly diverse!

 

[Barb_]

I generally counsel them to wait until they are moved out or barring that, to wait as long as possible until they move out. My reasoning is similar to Sadie's...teen relationships are so absorbing and distracting that they can completely derail self-actualization. I suspect this may be worse for females. A sexual relationship is fun until the novelty wears off and then it's a lot of responsibility and drama. I think we do our teens a disservice when we don't acknowledge how exciting and satisfying teen sex is, and also how stressful and even burdensome a sexual relationship can become before they are ready to be emotionally responsible for someone else. Sex-as-sacred-talisman works for adults looking backward, but kids are really just feeling the pull of their animal nature. We have to recognize that and not be afraid to talk about it openly.

 

Anyway, the teen years are hard enough without taking on someone else. The two that didn't wait until graduation had...issues of one sort and another. The one who did has been much happier with her choices. She didn't wait for marriage, but I didn't expect her to. Do you guys realize that we're in the middle of a huge social shift regarding marriage? From an article I will link below, "Today, only around 20 percent of Americans ages 18–29 are wed, compared to nearly 60 percent in 1960". I don't think it's reasonable to expect an individual to be sexually mature for up to 25 years before he or she is sexually active.

 

Forgot the link:

 

 

Single Women Are Now the Most Potent Political Force in America: http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/02/political-power-single-women-c-v-r.html

Edited March 1, 2016 by Barb_

[abba12]

Not necessarily. Some people aren't very interested in sex, or even find it distasteful. Humans are really amazingly diverse!

 

*rolls eyes*

 

Yes, I do also know an asexual. Two, I suspect, but only one will admit it. They were not the people I was talking about and I think that was fairly clear. Do we really need to put a disclaimer at the end of everything? I think it was pretty clear I was generalizing to the common person. The common person enjoys sex and would find waiting for sex a challenge, at least at times. 

[Barb_]

I was surprised to find my clergy husband is in favor of young marriages. I guess he's in the "it's unrealistic to expect people to wait until they are older for sex" camp.

 

Me, I'm not sure why people say "I wouldn't want to be the 40 Year Old Virgin!!"

 

Why not? To me, that's awfully judgy, like it would be unhealthy or proof that one is abnormal. I think it would show a person has a lot of self-control, and the ability to hold to what they hold as a higher value. (That's if they are still a virgin because they are waiting for marriage or a committed relationship--I would consider it abnormal to not have had *any* relationships by that time, but still, it happens.)

 

ETA--that last part isn't directed at you, abba, or anyone here--just the hypothetical person out there.

It's not that it can't happen. It's just unrealistic to set up an expectation that your child can MAKE it happen.

[Barb_]

I really don't get either "it's too hard to expect kids to wait" or "being a forty year old virgin is lame".

 

I know lots of people of all ages who choose to remain chaste outside of marriage. Yes it is possible to make it through the raging hormones of the teen years without acting on those urges; once the body and brain are mature self control is even easier. This is something that humans are capable of choosing, either for purely personal reasons or from a desire to obey a perceived higher law.

 

I waited.

Dh waited.

I expect my kids to wait.

 

It's not about worshiping virginity; if they slip up, they can repent and go right back to choosing chastity and waiting for the sanctity of marriage.

 

There is confidence in choosing self control.

Yikes. I think you should HOPE they would wait. I don't believe you have the right to expect they will wait, especially not for a period of time extended into their 20s and even their 30s. Their sexuality belongs to them. Setting expectations crosses all sorts of boundaries. Maybe that isn't what you meant?

[maize]

 

I will not be judgmental of a different choice than what I would wish for them, but I do expect that they understand that physical intimacy should only occur in a relationship in which there is mutual respect and consent. No means no, I'm not sure means no, I thought I was ready but I'm not means no, whether it's their partner or themselves saying it. Sometimes when we talk about readiness and consent with boys, we only address it from the perspective of a consenting partner, and forget to talk about giving consent also.

 

 

Can I piggyback off of this?

 

Often I come across the idea that it is unrealistic to expect young people to wait for marriage. I've never understood why. To my mind, it is in many ways an extension of the consent concept.

 

If I teach my son to wait for consent, I expect him to exercise the necessary self control. Don't proceed until consent is given. Don't proceed if consent is given and then withdrawn. It doesn't matter if your engines are roaring, it doesn't matter if you are in a committed relationship. No means no and there is no excuse.

 

Adding a religious perspective in which sex is reserved for marriage just adds one more layer of consent: don't proceed until you have God's consent. God gave us the power of procreation, the power to become partners with one another and with him in bringing his children into the world. He gave us the procreative and bonding experience of sexual intercourse as a key component of marriage and of family formation. He gives his consent to the expression of that gift only within the bonds of marriage.

 

Wait for God's consent.

 

That is what I teach.

[chocolatechip]

*gulp*. You told your children that one of them was an accident?!

Out of myself and my three siblings, three of us were not "planned." It hasn't scarred us or anything terrible. 

 

I am the eldest and was a total surprise.

My next sister was the only baby my parents were actually actively "trying" for. 

My surprise brother accidentally followed her 18 months later.

And then there is my "tagalong" sister who was another surprise - maybe even more than myself or my brother. She's five years behind him. 

[theelfqueen]

I've no idea, but DS pointed out it was illegal until 17. I did not correct him ;)

 

Actually there are several US states where the age of consent is 17 or 18.

 

http://www.ageofconsent.us/

 

 

In addition to the moral questions, questions of pregnancy and disease, the dangers of ending up on sex offender registries, and all the things that can land a person there,  should be taught to children.

[maize]

Yikes. I think you should HOPE they would wait. I don't believe you have the right to expect they will wait, especially not for a period of time extended into their 20s and even their 30s. Their sexuality belongs to them. Setting expectations crosses all sorts of boundaries. Maybe that isn't what you meant?

I do expect that they will wait.

 

Just as I expect that they will go to college.

 

I expect they will be upstanding and honorable people.

 

I expect they will choose good partners and good careers and raise adorable grandchildren who I will get to love and cherish.

 

Maybe what I call expect you would call hope? Certainly they will live their own lives and make their own choices, I have no desire to take that responsibility on myself!

[Barb_]

Can I piggyback off of this?

 

Often I come across the idea that it is unrealistic to expect young people to wait for marriage. I've never understood why. To my mind, it is in many ways an extension of the consent concept.

 

If I teach my son to wait for consent, I expect him to exercise the necessary self control. Don't proceed until consent is given. Don't proceed if consent is given and then withdrawn. It doesn't matter if your engines are roaring, it doesn't matter if you are in a committed relationship. No means no and there is no excuse.

 

Adding a religious perspective in which sex is reserved for marriage just adds one more layer of consent: don't proceed until you have God's consent. God gave us the power of procreation, the power to become partners with one another and with him in bringing his children into the world. He gave us the procreative and bonding experience of sexual intercourse as a key component of marriage and of family formation. He gives his consent to the expression of that gift only within the bonds of marriage.

 

Wait for God's consent.

 

That is what I teach.

Because of the unintended consequence of a rushed marriage. To get to the sex part. Yes I know young marriages can work. This board is full of examples. But young marriages are likelier to fail, and the boards are full of those examples as well. I know of three that failed before the 2nd anniversary. If they weren't waiting until marriage, they wouldn't have been married in the first place. Young marriage generally puts women in charge of finishing the raising of her less mature husband. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's best to let these guys grow up first before taking them on as life partners.

[Barb_]

I do expect that they will wait.

 

Just as I expect that they will go to college.

 

I expect they will be upstanding and honorable people.

 

I expect they will choose good partners and good careers and raise adorable grandchildren who I will get to love and cherish.

 

Maybe what I call expect you would call hope? Certainly they will live their own lives and make their own choices, I have no desire to take that responsibility on myself!

Yes, I think the word expect is emotionally loaded. I don't expect my kids to go to college or to have children. I kind of hope they will but I expect them to make their own choices. The word expect implies they have no choice in the matter. Unless they are to disappoint you by not living up to your expectations. Edited March 1, 2016 by Barb_

[Lady Florida.]

I'm amused by the not marrying before 30 thing lol. I suppose if you're wanting to delay marriage that long, it makes a lot of sense that many people would not want to delay sex that long. Encouraging late marriage AND no sex would be hard. 

 

 

 

Not everyone who married late in life did so because they chose to delay marriage. Some of us didn't find The One until later in life.

 

 

 

I haven't read many replies, just skimmed a couple late, but I don't think it's bad for kids to know they are a surprise. My last is 11 years younger than my other two. I'm pretty sure she'll figure it out. I will tell her she is the best surprise of my life. :)

 

As long as they know they were a pleasant surprise or happy accident I don't see a problem with it either. 

 

I don't believe in unchaperoned dating in high school. I also prefer a "courtship" model, though not the creepy, patriarchal version.

 

I think dating should be for adults who are ready to seriously think about finding a future spouse. Not necessarily marrying right away, but the end goal of dating should be figuring out if the boyfriend/girlfriend is marriage material. I don't believe in casual relationships "just for fun". If you KNOW that you do not want to marry the other person, you shouldn't be involved with him/her at all.

 

I'm not sure why you quoted me for this statement. Obviously if I said ds and his girlfriend have been dating for 2 years, then we approve both of dating and of them as a couple. We don't think every relationship will or should lead to marriage. And just because a relationship doesn't lead to marriage doesn't mean it's casual or just for fun, though I also don't think that's wrong if you're mature and emotionally able to handle it.

 

Ds and gf don't KNOW that they do not want to marry. They don't know that they do either. 

 

I just don't get why you singled out his relationship with this wonderful young woman. 

 

 

 

Me, I'm not sure why people say "I wouldn't want to be the 40 Year Old Virgin!!"

 

Why not? To me, that's awfully judgy, like it would be unhealthy or proof that one is abnormal. I think it would show a person has a lot of self-control, and the ability to hold to what they hold as a higher value. (That's if they are still a virgin because they are waiting for marriage or a committed relationship--I would consider it abnormal to not have had *any* relationships by that time, but still, it happens.)

 

 

 

I didn't say no one should be a 40 year old virgin, but intimated that *I* wouldn't have wanted that. Not everyone holds virginity up as some special gift to give another person. Also, honestly if I reached 40 was still a virgin I would have felt like I missed out on a lot of years of an enjoyable, natural human activity. And during some of my best years too. Notice all of those are "I" statements. I'm not judging. I just wouldn't have wanted that for myself.

 

I suppose if one thinks sex is only for procreation then it would be a virtue to wait until marriage. Otherwise, I really don't see anything super special about saving yourself. I do think you need to be emotionally mature and have a good relationship with your partner, but that's also my belief. I've known professional men and women who find casual, just-for-fun sex enjoyable, and they are perfectly happy people.

 

This seems so strange to me. Where is their activity taking place? I assume your son is still living at home.

 

It's taking place where you probably think it is. At our house. And at hers. We the parents feel that if we forbade it they'd be in the backseat of a car or an hourly motel. Teens who want to have sex will find a place and a way. We are not against their relationship. We are comfortable with it. Her parents are on the same page as dh and me. 

 

I'm sure there are plenty of people here who think that's terrible. That's okay. Think what you want. They aren't your kids. They're ours. And they're damn good kids too.

[maize]

Because of the unintended consequence of a rushed marriage. To get to the sex part. Yes I know young marriages can work. This board is full of examples. But young marriages are likelier to fail, and the boards are full of those examples as well. I know of three that failed before the 2nd anniversary. If they weren't waiting until marriage, they wouldn't have been married in the first place. Young marriage generally puts women in charge of finishing the raising of her less mature husband. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's best to let these guys grow up first before taking them on as life partners.

Where this happens I agree it is a problem.

 

 

Rushed marriages are not the norm in my circle.

 

Waiting is.

 

But it starts with waiting to find the right partner, and waiting till it is the right time to marry.

 

Lots of waiting :)

 

I met my husband when I was twenty. I married him when I was twenty three. He was twenty five. Do you consider that too young or too rushed?

[maize]

Yes, I think the word expect is emotionally loaded. I don't expect my kids to go to college or to have children. I kind of hope they will but I expect them to make their own choices. The word expect implies they have no choice in the matter. Unless they are to disappoint you by not living up to your expectations.

I can tell it is loaded for you.

 

It is not loaded for me. It is less loaded than hope.

 

Expect to me is just what I think will happen. I expect it will be sunny tomorrow.

[Joker]

I do expect that they will wait.

 

Just as I expect that they will go to college.

 

I expect they will be upstanding and honorable people.

 

I expect they will choose good partners and good careers and raise adorable grandchildren who I will get to love and cherish.

 

Maybe what I call expect you would call hope? Certainly they will live their own lives and make their own choices, I have no desire to take that responsibility on myself!

 

I would use hope where you used expect in these instances.

 

I hope they will wait.

 

I hope they will go to college (I didn't right out of high school and thankfully my parents were ok).

 

I hope they will be honorable.

 

I hope they will choose wisely.

 

I hope they will have children (They may not want to and it should be ok). 

 

I've learned, especially this year, that I need to expect nothing. I hope. I pray. I wish. Ultimately, I just want them to be happy. Everything else is a bonus. 

[Lady Florida.]

This is not our first go round with a teen. Dss and his girlfriend also had sex in our home. I don't understand squeamishness over this fact of life. People have sex. Even people related to you. Dss did not marry that girlfriend, but neither of them are emotionally scarred for having had sex as older teens then not marrying one another. She is happily married with kids (last we heard) and dss is married to a ddil anyone would love to have. 

 

Nothing earth-shattering happened because we (and that girl's mother) allowed them the freedom to engage in mature, safe sex in our homes.

[Crimson Wife]

I think we do our teens a disservice when we don't acknowledge how exciting and satisfying teen sex is, and also how stressful and even burdensome a sexual relationship can become before they are ready to be emotionally responsible for someone else.

 

The friends I had in high school who were not virgins confessed to me that the sex was awful. They did it because they thought they were "in love" with their boyfriends and all regretted it after the inevitable breakup. I don't think that the typical sexually active teen boy is a particularly good lover but I have only secondhand knowledge.

 

DH and I waited until we were adults and when we finally had sex, it was satisfying. There's a lot to be said for the privacy that comes with being an adult since we didn't have to sneak around to avoid getting caught by parents or the police. One time in the backseat of a car at the drive-in just for kicks was MORE than enough. Talk about uncomfortable!

[Barb_]

I can tell it is loaded for you.

 

It is not loaded for me. It is less loaded than hope.

 

Expect to me is just what I think will happen. I expect it will be sunny tomorrow.

It doesn't matter whether it is loaded to me or to you. What matters is, will your kids find it so?

[Barb_]

The friends I had in high school who were not virgins confessed to me that the sex was awful. They did it because they thought they were "in love" with their boyfriends and all regretted it after the inevitable breakup. I don't think that the typical sexually active teen boy is a particularly good lover but I have only secondhand knowledge.

 

DH and I waited until we were adults and when we finally had sex, it was satisfying. There's a lot to be said for the privacy that comes with being an adult since we didn't have to sneak around to avoid getting caught by parents or the police. One time in the backseat of a car at the drive-in just for kicks was MORE than enough. Talk about uncomfortable!

Actually, that's a good point too. Some teen sex is truly awful. It's good for kids to hear it like it is. It can be awesome or awful, but that isn't the point. The point is to acknowledge the normalcy of sex but still delay the physical urges until the emotional capacity catches up.

[maize]

It doesn't matter whether it is loaded to me or to you. What matters is, will your kids find it so?

My kids get to live with me every day. They know me and my attitudes and feelings in ways that words on a forum can't convey.

 

Much less chance for misunderstanding.

[Tsuga]

DD once told me she'd figured out the rule of three for humans (the rule of three for breeding cornsnakes is that they need to be 3 feet long, 3 years old, and 300g). You shouldn't have sex until you

 

1) have a job and can support a child

2) Have a house in a safe place so the child has somewhere to live

3) Are at least 30 years old.

 

I kind of doubt she'll wait until she's 30-but the first two seem pretty good to me (although I'd accept apartments. I don't think DD had visited a friend's home which wasn't in a house, either owned or rented, because in this area you can rent a several bedroom house for the same cost as a decent apartment)-and are basically what is required before you can be considered as a possible adoptive parent. 

 

Lots of women in academia wait to conceive. It is kind of a problem for those who want babies but wait, because their chances go off a cliff (chances, so of course some have no problem) by the time they get their PhDs.

 

I think it's worthwhile to have a chat about waiting and what you can do to support her if, when it comes to that, she wants to have a baby and continue her career. Having baby at home with grandma is hard for grandma but for the career... it means you can have a baby more easily, you're young, you can still do it. Without grandma, people wait until 40. So I'd say, my rule of three would be, 20, grandma/grandpa can semi-retire, and have a job or be in an academic career track.

 

It is a shame, biologically, that being a "responsible" mother is so at odds with human biology. My mom has helped me SO much, and she gave good advice, but as a social project I hope my generation can be the generation in which grandma and grandpa can really make it possible for people to have babies before 35. 

 

I mean if you still want to wait, great, but there shouldn't be that social pressure to wait until you have everything "just so"--as if you could control the future.

 

Edited for grammar.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Tsuga

[Crimson Wife]

 Dss and his girlfriend also had sex in our home. I don't understand squeamishness over this fact of life. People have sex. Even people related to you.

 

DH, oldest DD, and I lived with my parents for a year while DH was in grad school. I *NEVER* felt comfortable having sex under their roof, even as a 27 y.o. married woman. We installed a lock on our bedroom door but I still felt super-awkward about going at it with my parents right down the hall. Intellectually I knew it was fine since we were married but viscerally I felt like we were crossing the line.

[Barb_]

Where this happens I agree it is a problem.

 

 

Rushed marriages are not the norm in my circle.

 

Waiting is.

 

But it starts with waiting to find the right partner, and waiting till it is the right time to marry.

 

Lots of waiting :)

 

I met my husband when I was twenty. I married him when I was twenty three. He was twenty five. Do you consider that too young or too rushed?

I was also 23. For me it was too young. For my husband it was without a doubt too young. Still we sucked it up and made it work and made a life in spite of many years of struggle. As I said, I'm not categorically opposed to young marriages. I do think, however, that young marriages tend to disproportionally affect females in a negative way. Once a woman is married she tends to bend herself to suit her husband by taking on the greater share of housework, childcare, and well (let's face it) husband-care. Now, if that is your aim then there is no problem. The problem lies with women who have career ambitions and believe they can marry and haves family and the whole package. It's difficult to find a spouse willing or able to help make that happen. Now that I have adult daughters I'm beginning how important it is to delay marriage in order to accomplish anything outside of marriage and family.

[Barb_]

Lots of women in academia wait to conceive. It is kind of a problem for those who want babies but wait, because their chances go off a cliff (chances, so of course some have no problem) by the time they get their PhDs.

 

I think it's worthwhile to have a chat about waiting and what you can do to support her if, when it comes to that, she wants to have a baby and continue her career. Having baby at home with grandma is hard for grandma but for the career... it means you can have a baby more easily, you're young, you can still do it. Without grandma, people wait until 40. So I'd say, my rule of three would be, 20, grandma/grandpa can semi-retire, and have a job or be in an academic career track.

 

It is a shame, biologically, that being a "responsible" mother is so at odds with human biology. My mom has helped me SO much, and she gave good advice, but as a social project I hope my generation can be the generation in which grandma and grandpa can really make it possible for people to have babies before 35.

 

I mean if you still want to wait, great, but there shouldn't be that social pressure to wait until you have everything "just so"--as if you could control the future.

 

Edited for grammar.

THIS!! Many times over.

[Joker]

DH, oldest DD, and I lived with my parents for a year while DH was in grad school. I *NEVER* felt comfortable having sex under their roof, even as a 27 y.o. married woman. We installed a lock on our bedroom door but I still felt super-awkward about going at it with my parents right down the hall. Intellectually I knew it was fine since we were married but viscerally I felt like we were crossing the line.

 

I don't get this. We've rarely lived near our parents so they have visited often. Is this only in their home or is it also if they are visiting in your home? I just don't get it. I have sex with my dh with my dds in the home. I have had sex with my, and dh's parents, in the home. I feel it isn't healthy to act like it is something to hide and be ashamed of. I don't want my dds thinking it's not okay to have sex with their spouses when they visit. It seems to make it something wrong and dirty when it's not either of those things. 

[Tsuga]

I married for sex, essentially. I didn't think of it like that, but there is no doubt in my mind that if I had thought I could have a love affair and let it go, I never would have married my ex. I knew he wasn't that nice but I thought I could make it work.

 

Well, I got my kids.

 

If your kids are going to wait, hopefully you are pro-masturbation, because they are going to pass their prime reproductive years, in all likelihood, before meeting the one who will be perfect for them, and it's enough to drive people mad, or to drive them to marriage. And marriage is not something that you should be driven to. My 2c.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Tsuga

[Cammie]

I generally counsel them to wait until they are moved out or barring that, to wait as long as possible until they move out. My reasoning is similar to Sadie's...teen relationships are so absorbing and distracting that they can completely derail self-actualization. I suspect this may be worse for females. A sexual relationship is fun until the novelty wears off and then it's a lot of responsibility and drama. I think we do our teens a disservice when we don't acknowledge how exciting and satisfying teen sex is, and also how stressful and even burdensome a sexual relationship can become before they are ready to be emotionally responsible for someone else. Sex-as-sacred-talisman works for adults looking backward, but kids are really just feeling the pull of their animal nature. We have to recognize that and not be afraid to talk about it openly.

 

Anyway, the teen years are hard enough without taking on someone else. The two that didn't wait until graduation had...issues of one sort and another. The one who did has been much happier with her choices. She didn't wait for marriage, but I didn't expect her to. Do you guys realize that we're in the middle of a huge social shift regarding marriage? From an article I will link below, "Today, only around 20 percent of Americans ages 18–29 are wed, compared to nearly 60 percent in 1960". I don't think it's reasonable to expect an individual to be sexually mature for up to 25 years before he or she is sexually active.

 

Forgot the link:

 

 

Single Women Are Now the Most Potent Political Force in America: http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/02/political-power-single-women-c-v-r.html

 

No need for me to retype when everything has already been said by Barb!

 

Wait...until you can handle the possible drama.

 

Wait....until you have moved out (so your father doesn't have a heart attack.)

 

And I advocate waiting on marriage...I think a too early marriage is more destructive than too early sex!

[Barb_]

My kids get to live with me every day. They know me and my attitudes and feelings in ways that words on a forum can't convey.

 

Much less chance for misunderstanding.

So do mine. All of our kids do. And yet misunderstandings do happen and kids can completely dash your hopes for them and defy your expectations. Even the best ones. So I really do hope they understand that they have choices outside of your plans for them. That's all.

[maize]

I was also 23. For me it was too young. For my husband it was without a doubt too young. Still we sucked it up and made it work and made a life in spite of many years of struggle. As I said, I'm not categorically opposed to young marriages. I do think, however, that young marriages tend to disproportionally affect females in a negative way. Once a woman is married she tends to bend herself to suit her husband by taking on the greater share of housework, childcare, and well (let's face it) husband-care. Now, if that is your aim then there is no problem. The problem lies with women who have career ambitions and believe they can marry and haves family and the whole package. It's difficult to find a spouse willing or able to help make that happen. Now that I have adult daughters I'm beginning how important it is to delay marriage in order to accomplish anything outside of marriage and family.

There's no straightforward path for women.

 

Delay marriage and family, and children may never happen. The woman who waits until her thirties for children and then struggles with infertility is all too common.

 

These decisions drove me crazy when I was a young adult and trying to figure out which choices to make. I was quite envious of men and what appeared to me to be the comparative simplicity of their choices.

[maize]

So do mine. All of our kids do. And yet misunderstandings do happen and kids can completely dash your hopes for them and defy your expectations. Even the best ones. So I really do hope they understand that they have choices outside of your plans for them. That's all.

If you knew me you wouldn't worry about whether my children will know how to make their own choices. I'm really, really, really bad at trying to control anyone else :D

[Tsuga]

There's no straightforward path for women.

 

Delay marriage and family, and children may never happen. The woman who waits until her thirties for children and then struggles with infertility is all too common.

 

These decisions drove me crazy when I was a young adult and trying to figure out which choices to make. I was quite envious of men and what appeared to me to be the comparative simplicity of their choices.

 

That's why we women have one another. :) Even for those of you with whom I frequently disagree... we're probably closer, over the Internet, than my partner is with any other man in his life.

 

Being a woman is hard.

[Barb_]

There's no straightforward path for women.

 

Delay marriage and family, and children may never happen. The woman who waits until her thirties for children and then struggles with infertility is all too common.

 

These decisions drove me crazy when I was a young adult and trying to figure out which choices to make. I was quite envious of men and what appeared to me to be the comparative simplicity of their choices.

Here you and I are in complete agreement. My heart hurts for one of my daughters right now. She has some difficult decisions coming up in the next year or so.

[Joker]

My kids get to live with me every day. They know me and my attitudes and feelings in ways that words on a forum can't convey.

 

Much less chance for misunderstanding.

 

I feel the issue is when your kids don't necessarily agree with your viewpoints. Then it becomes how horribly do they think they are letting you down. That can crush a kid, I know!  Knowing what you expect is very different than living up to what you expect. We can all hope our dc do what we expect but we, honestly, should prepare ourselves for what to do if they don't. 

[Crimson Wife]

 

I'm not sure why you quoted me for this statement. Obviously if I said ds and his girlfriend have been dating for 2 years, then we approve both of dating and of them as a couple. We don't think every relationship will or should lead to marriage. And just because a relationship doesn't lead to marriage doesn't mean it's casual or just for fun, though I also don't think that's wrong if you're mature and emotionally able to handle it.

 

I don't believe every dating relationship should result in engagement or marriage either. Dating should be about getting to know the other person to see if he or she would make a good spouse. Not all will, and it's fine to go through several dating relationships before finding Mr./Ms. Right. But I have a big problem with dating someone you KNOW is Mr./Ms. Wrong just to "have fun". A lot of my friends wasted their 20's with "bad boys" whom they knew they would never want to marry and ignoring all the nice guys who would've made great husbands. I do not want that for my children. I don't want them to rush into marriage before carefully evaluating the merits of a potential spouse, but I want them to view dating as having an end goal of marriage at some point.