Wabi Sabi Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 If I told ds to wait for marriage, I would be a hypocrite. I did not and have no regrets. There are many things I did in my life that I tell Ds I want him to do differently. That doesn't make me a hypocrite. I hope he will learn from my mistakes. But if one has no regrets and doesn't consider it a mistake in the first place, then yes, it would be hypocritical. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) nm Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Our church required premarital couples' counseling with a MFT and this topic was actually discussed in our sessions. The MFT advised a "don't turn your spouse down unless you have a REALLY good reason to" policy and keeping a stock of supplies to help facilitate getting the initially reluctant spouse in the mood IYKWIM. Totally embarrassing at the time but it did turn out to be great advice. However there is no recourse if either partner decides that "I just can't right now" is a great reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 There are other ways of getting gratification aside from intercourse and all my fellow current/former military wives will say thank goodness for that! Yes indeed and these can all have a place in a healthy marriage. As an ex military wife I agree. I also think masturbation plays an important role for teens who aren't ready for sex. However, my point was that you don't know whether you'll like sex until you try it, so telling someone to MARRY you for sex before you even know if you like it can be counterproductive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) However there is no recourse if either partner decides that "I just can't right now" is a great reason. But there is. Because two people generally communicate and there's give and take. Doesn't every relationship have to find a way to navigate between, "I really don't want to right now" and "I really do want to right now"? Of course standards are going to differ and some people may default to obliging and some people default to refusing (based on personal philosophy, religion, background, whatever), but isn't this something every couple has to come to terms with? And if you think, hey, my partner really wants to do this and they can only do this with me, maybe I should consider it even though I'm tired/touched out/whatever...that's not really a bad thing, IMO. I will say that rejection is hard to take in a marriage. Over and over again; I don't know what that's like. You don't want to be intimate once in awhile, ok? But you consistently say "I just can't right now" and the other person is supposed to just say okay with no discussion -- I would imagine it would start to hurt. Edited March 1, 2016 by JodiSue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Paul says that in the New Testament. Not to deny each other unless it's for a mutually agreed upon period of time because it will lead them to temptation. As a result many churches teach this. 1 Corinthians 7:5, if you want to look it up. We basically do that, unless one of us is sick or whatever. Then there might be an, "I'm sorry, I'm really not in the mood, but I'll satisfy you (quickly)." I don't find it disgusting at all, but I can see how it would be if there was some degree of abuse or manipulation going on. Frankly though, I don't understand how people stay in sexless marriages. The difference between a marriage and a room mate is sex. I've heard too many stories where sexless marriages were due to cheating (literally or with a porn addiction), and frankly if DH wanted to go months or years without sex I wouldn't stay married. I'd see it as a sign there was something else fundamentally wrong in the relationship. Obviously if there's a medical thing there's a medical thing, but if there's no desire to satisfy the other person's needs at all? Or if you pretend you don't have needs for long stretches of time? Yeah, either you don't love him, you have a medical issue, you're getting your needs met by someone else, or you're letting something else mess with the boundaries of your life. It sounds like a very damaging belief system for a time that has long gone. IMO If there is something amiss with the sexual satisfaction of either party, a conversation would seem like a healthier option. Adding this to the list of reasons I am not Christian and could never be Christian and why I hope ny kids are never Christian. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 IME, having regular sex out of obligation even when you don't want to because your spouse has a much higher sex drive isn't great for a marriage. But she wasn't talking about having sex out of obligation. She was talking about loving one's spouse such that their happiness and satisfaction is more important than their own. It's about a husband being understanding if his wife is going through a low-drive period because of kid stress (or whatever) and backing off even though he'd really like sex that day. It's about a wife deciding to express her love for her husband physically even when she might not be feeling all that up for it at the moment. It's about understanding that sometimes, all it takes is a little time to get in the mood - and knowing how to help that along. (I'm using the stereotypical example of the low-drive female and higher-drive male though obviously it can go the other way too.) Good premarital counseling addresses these issues and helps couples anticipate them. It can also help them to be prepared for issues of childbirth, aging, etc that all can affect sex drive and how to deal with incompatibilities that can come up over the years of the marriage. There is no way to guarantee ahead of time that a couple will remain sexually compatible for the entire length of their marriage. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I don't think learning what you want in a partner before you commit to spend a lifetime with one person is a weak argument. There's a lot more to sexual compatibility than the initial physical attraction. Frequency, for example, is a big problem for some people. Two virgins might be wildly attracted to each other, then get married and find out that she wants it daily (or more!) and he's fine once a week, or vice versa. Or one person might discover they like it wild and kinky while their partner wants a more gentle, emotionally-centered sexual relationship. These are the things you don't learn about yourself until after you've been doing it a while, and differences in compatibility have contributed to ending more than one marriage. Marriage is a big commitment. The more you know about yourself and your needs going in, the better off you'll be. Of course, saying that sex is an important part of a relationship and you need compatibility in that area has gotten more than one woman branded (or here on the forums, implied subtly to be) a slut. If you love someone, the sex will just work itself out. Sex is dirty and even thinking about it before marriage is immoral. Sex is only for making babies, so just think about Jesus and everything will be fine. Yeah, that might work for the first few years, but thirty years down the road, not so much. To each her own, obviously, but I think the arguments for waiting until marriage are much weaker. When it comes to marriage, though, just because you are compatible before marriage doesn't mean you will continue to be. Changes in health, kids, hormones, etc. can cause partners' libidos and inclinations/inhibitions to shift and change over time. Which is a point I think both in favor of the "wait until marriage" crowd's viewpoint and in favor of conscious non-monogamy in marriage, depending on how you look at it--sexual compatibility is only one point in a very large field of what makes up a successful marriage, and is arguably not a deal breaker. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 There are many things I did in my life that I tell Ds I want him to do differently. That doesn't make me a hypocrite. I hope he will learn from my mistakes. You missed the second part for me, I have no regrets. I do not consider my sexual encounters outside of marriage as mistakes. I had full choice (free will) to do or not do. But if one has no regrets and doesn't consider it a mistake in the first place, then yes, it would be hypocritical. Bingo, you win the prize. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) It sounds like a very damaging belief system for a time that has long gone. IMO If there is something amiss with the sexual satisfaction of either party, a conversation would seem like a healthier option. Adding this to the list of reasons I am not Christian and could never be Christian and why I hope ny kids are never Christian. Why is the assumption that there is no conversation? It's damaging to be intimate with your spouse when they desire intimacy with you? ETA: honestly, I think it's damaging to deny intimacy or affection within a marriage, barring some medical issue and even those can be tough to deal with. Just as I think it's damaging to demand intimacy and expect it every time one asks. But it's not like all of this is happening in some vacuum where no one talks to each other or brings up questions or concerns or plans to deal with differences. Edited March 1, 2016 by JodiSue 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoot Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 My personal suggestion would be to wait until they are physically, mentally, and somewhat financially capable of caring for a child independently. Birth control can fail even the most vigilant user. While there are other options available in the case of accidental pregnancy, I think the goal of being physically, mentally, and financially capable to care for a child is more concrete than simply waiting until one "feels ready" or even just saying "wait until marriage." I actually know a number of youth group kids who are now on their second or third marriage because the "wait until marriage" line they got as teens was interpreted as, "get married as soon as possible so that I can have sex." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 . The difference between a marriage and a room mate is sex. Seriously? On so many levels, I have to disagree with this. Roommates don't expect to take care of each other in the event of disability/aging/sickness. Roommates have no duty to one another beyond what's in the lease. Roommates don't usually help raise each others' children (or have each others' children). Marriage makes two people family who would not otherwise be. It's so, so much more than sex. 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Hold up. You were told that a spouse should not to turn down sex unless they have a really good reason and then given tools to push the other person into having sex??! If one of us says no, the other respects it. No reason needed to be given. No pushing. No trying to get the other into the mood. No means no. I am disgusted that anything else would be taught or viewed as acceptable. You've never been in a situation where one person wanted to, the other didn't really, but after a little romance/snuggling/kissing/whatever, the mood changed and you were glad you didn't just walk away, or turn over and go to sleep? Or, you've never just been able to tell that your partner wasn't going to be up for it, so you didn't put them in the position of having to refuse? Remember, she's talking about people who love each other and want to make each other happy, not conniving, manipulative people. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I'm not a Christian and I don't think it's bad advice. I think we are all overthinking the advice. If your spouse kisses your neck and extends the invitation, don't turn him down because you'd rather watch the Tonight Show. Or because you're still mad that he left his cup by the sink (LOL). I don't take the advice to be "on your back women whenever and wherever!" It goes both ways, and a connected spouse will know when not to start poking at you. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEmama Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) Our church required premarital couples' counseling with a MFT and this topic was actually discussed in our sessions. The MFT advised a "don't turn your spouse down unless you have a REALLY good reason to" policy and keeping a stock of supplies to help facilitate getting the initially reluctant spouse in the mood IYKWIM. Totally embarrassing at the time but it did turn out to be great advice. nm Edited March 1, 2016 by MEmama 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Why is the assumption that there is no conversation? It's damaging to be intimate with your spouse when they desire intimacy with you? If I do not want to be intimate, then I have the right not to be. Being badgered, pressured, guilted, or coerced to hax sex is indicative of an unhealthy dynamic. It does not matter how you sugar coat it, if a person says no and the other person does anything less than accept the no, then it is not respectful. I have respect for my partner and when he says no, I stop. When I turn him down he does the same. No reason needs to be given. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 You've never been in a situation where one person wanted to, the other didn't really, but after a little romance/snuggling/kissing/whatever, the mood changed and you were glad you didn't just walk away, or turn over and go to sleep? Or, you've never just been able to tell that your partner wasn't going to be up for it, so you didn't put them in the position of having to refuse? Remember, she's talking about people who love each other and want to make each other happy, not conniving, manipulative people. No means no. That is all there is to it. Research domestic abuse. It is not all physical. Not respecting the No is a control issue and not healthy. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 When it comes to marriage, though, just because you are compatible before marriage doesn't mean you will continue to be. Changes in health, kids, hormones, etc. can cause partners' libidos and inclinations/inhibitions to shift and change over time. Which is a point I think both in favor of the "wait until marriage" crowd's viewpoint and in favor of conscious non-monogamy in marriage, depending on how you look at it--sexual compatibility is only one point in a very large field of what makes up a successful marriage, and is arguably not a deal breaker. I was thinking this same thing. Libido changes over time, bodies change over time, life focus changes over time... Sexual compatibility and sex itself are only one data point in the playing out of a marriage, and they are a shifting one. (As an aside, I'm frequently amused to find myself in agreement with Ravin; I think we're more alike than different though we lead lives that in many ways are as far apart as you can get) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 So I've spent way too much time today reading about politics and feeling plenty disturbed, but this is by far the most disturbing thing I've read all day. Isn't this EXACTLY the opposite of what we all want to teach our kids? "Sure she's saying no now, but after a few drinks she'll be saying yes!" :ack2: :ack2: :ack2: :ack2: :ack2: My brain is bleeding... Yes, this. Excuse me while I go have another conversation with my son about the word "no" and what it means. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) If I do not want to be intimate, then I have the right not to be. Being badgered, pressured, guilted, or coerced to hax sex is indicative of an unhealthy dynamic. It does not matter how you sugar coat it, if a person says no and the other person does anything less than accept the no, then it is not respectful. I have respect for my partner and when he says no, I stop. When I turn him down he does the same. No reason needs to be given. What is badgered, pressured, guilted, or coerced? Why do you assume that's what's happening? Why do you assume someone is saying no and it's not being respected? Aside from that, if I was trying to be intimate with my DH and he just said, "No," and there was no discussion or anything else going on, I'd feel rejected. It just sounds cold and unfeeling. Here I desire intimacy with the only person I am intimate with in this way, and they give me a flat no, and that's it? And there's no discussion about why? That sounds so...strange. Neither of us would act that way toward each other in our marriage. There's so much more that goes on in our dynamics as a couple that it would never come down to one action resulting in a flat no with no other context or conversation. ETA: I see from your other replies that you're simply not engaging in communication with your partner in a way I'd associate with a married couple. We have way more conversation about this stuff than just "No." Most of our conversations about anything in life are more elaborate than that, lol. Edited March 1, 2016 by JodiSue 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 But if one has no regrets and doesn't consider it a mistake in the first place, then yes, it would be hypocritical. True. But I have heard plenty of people say they can't tell their kids to refrain from XYZ because they had done it when they were young. That is what I was referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 You missed the second part for me, I have no regrets. I do not consider my sexual encounters outside of marriage as mistakes. I had full choice (free will) to do or not do. Bingo, you win the prize. Ok. I see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 No means no. That is all there is to it. Research domestic abuse. It is not all physical. Not respecting the No is a control issue and not healthy. It's clear that we are not going to understand each other. I have no idea why are you bringing up domestic abuse. I'm not a Christian and I don't think it's bad advice. I think we are all overthinking the advice. If your spouse kisses your neck and extends the invitation, don't turn him down because you'd rather watch the Tonight Show. Or because you're still mad that he left his cup by the sink (LOL). I don't take the advice to be "on your back women whenever and wherever!" It goes both ways, and a connected spouse will know when not to start poking at you. Right. Exactly. Especially the bolded. Like someone else said, this isn't happening in a vacuum. There is conversation, there is knowledge of each other, care and concern and love. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaConquest Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 And I advocate waiting on marriage...I think a too early marriage is more destructive than too early sex! Exactly this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 What is badgered, pressured, guilted, or coerced? Why do you assume that's what's happening? Why do you assume someone is saying no and it's not being respected? Aside from that, if I was trying to be intimate with my DH and he just said, "No," and there was no discussion or anything else going on, I'd feel rejected. It just sounds cold and unfeeling. Here I desire intimacy with the only person I am intimate with in this way, and they give me a flat no, and that's it? And there's no discussion about why? That sounds so...strange. Neither of us would act that way toward each other in our marriage. There's so much more that goes on in our dynamics as a couple that it would never come down to one action resulting in a flat no with no other context or conversation. Funny, what about the tools and strategies to "help a spouse get in the mood" mentioned above? Being married or in a relationship does not make it right. No is no. Reasons are not needed. If it is an ongoing problem then a conversation in another time and place could help the situation. Put the situation into a different context. A guy hits on a girk at a bar, the girl says no, and he starts rubbing her back then nibbling on her ear. Anyone here think that is OK? I hope not. If it is not OK there, it is not OK in marriage. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 It's clear that we are not going to understand each other. I have no idea why are you bring up domestic abuse Really? You cannot see it? Wow. Can you see how in a different context what is being advocating can be considered rape? Being married or in a relationship does not change the meaning of the word "no" or that no reason needs to be given. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 No means no. That is all there is to it. Research domestic abuse. It is not all physical. Not respecting the No is a control issue and not healthy. We are not talking two strangers at a bar. Good grief. My husband has convinced me many times when I initially just want to go to sleep. I am always glad he did! He is not abusive. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 We are not talking two strangers at a bar. Good grief. My husband has convinced me many times when I initially just want to go to sleep. I am always glad he did! He is not abusive. Beung married or knowing the person changes nothing. No means no. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Funny, what about the tools and strategies to "help a spouse get in the mood" mentioned above? Being married or in a relationship does not make it right. No is no. Reasons are not needed. If it is an ongoing problem then a conversation in another time and place could help the situation. Put the situation into a different context. A guy hits on a girk at a bar, the girl says no, and he starts rubbing her back then nibbling on her ear. Anyone here think that is OK? I hope not. If it is not OK there, it is not OK in marriage. Uh, my relationship with my DH is much different than getting hit on by a random person at a bar. Cause if a guy came up and started rubbing my back or my butt at a bar, he'd get yelled at and shoved away. But that's not the case with my DH. If your relationship with your spouse is the same as someone you don't know hitting on you, then what you're saying makes much more sense now. If you equate your spouse making physical advances towards you as the same thing as a stranger making physical advances, then, yeah, I can understand what you're saying a lot better. But that's not how my DH and I relate to each other at all. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Uh, my relationship with my DH is much different than getting hit on by a random person at a bar. Cause if a guy came up and started rubbing my back or my butt at a bar, he'd get yelled at and shoved away. But that's not the case with my DH. If your relationship with your spouse is the same as someone you don't know hitting on you, then what you're saying makes much more sense now. If you equate your spouse making physical advances towards you as the same thing as a stranger making physical advances, then, yeah, I can understand what you're saying a lot better. But that's not how my DH and I relate to each other at all. I think you missed my point. The relationship and how well they know each other does not change that one person said "no". No means "no". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Really? You cannot see it? Wow. Can you see how in a different context what is being advocating can be considered rape? Being married or in a relationship does not change the meaning of the word "no" or that no reason needs to be given. Did you read Zoobie's post, which I had quoted in the same post you quoted here? (Now there's a convoluted sentence.) We are not talking about a different context. We are talking about the context of spouses who love each other and want the best for each other. I wasn't going to talk about this but I'll give you a different context: my first marriage. Active before marriage, totally compatible. Within a year, though, he was making "suggestions" that we add certain... elements.... into our life that were not compatible with our marriage vows of fidelity, iykwim. Suggestions turned into demands. And that turned into me leaving. That is not the type of marriage I am talking about, where one person makes his/her pleasure the priority over the spouse. Completely different picture than that of a spouse romancing a partner a little bit to see if the mood changes. Or of a spouse knowing when not to try because he/she does not want to put pressure on the partner and does not want to put the partner in the position of having to say no. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Beung married or knowing the person changes nothing. No means no. Wow, you are really getting hung up on the word no. My dh and I have a great relationship but we have both convinced the other to change their minds about sex. That doesn't make it an abusive relationship. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Beung married or knowing the person changes nothing. No means no. I have changed my mind from no to yes many times with my dh. Happily. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 What happens if you find out that you are wildly mismatched? That your brand new husband is a premature ejaculator or can only get off looking at porn? Or that your new wife is frigid? I can't imagine spending an entire marriage being profoundly dissatisfied sexually. I ask for samples of cheese and ice cream before I buy them because I want to make sure I like them first. I can't imagine making a bigger purchase totally uninformed! I'd think porn was something you would have discussed before that. And that if you married someone you love, you'd deal with premature ejaculation. I cannot wrap my head around finding the perfect guy, but ditching him because he isn't into sex as often. I mean that happens all the time in marriage anyway! My husband and I were on the same page, but then kids came and I was tired and not interested, then he had a side effect from mediation that made it difficult, then I had surgery and hormonal issues, etc etc. Should we not have stayed married? Or do you work around that stuff? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yes, I am hung up on the word "no". The posts here defending it because marriage/love/relationship feeds into the prevalent rape culture in our society. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yes, I am hung up on the word "no". The posts here defending it because marriage/love/relationship feeds into the prevalent rape culture in our society. I don't think people are talking about rape, I think they are talking about one spouse initiating something, the other spouse being all meh, not really in the mood, the first spouse maybe giving the second spouse a back rub after which they may think hey I want to do this after all OR they may go no, really not tonight and that's the end of that. This kind of stuff happens in my household quite frequently, and it's not always the same spouse initiating or sometimes being ultimately turned down. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I don't think people are talking about rape, I think they are talking about one spouse initiating something, the other spouse being all meh, not really in the mood, the first spouse maybe giving the second spouse a back rub after which they may think hey I want to do this after all OR they may go no, really not tonight and that's the end of that. This kind of stuff happens in my household quite frequently, and it's not always the same spouse initiating or sometimes being ultimately turned down. So, you (general you) all have "safe words"? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) Yes, I am hung up on the word "no". The posts here defending it because marriage/love/relationship feeds into the prevalent rape culture in our society. I think it's because most of us rarely ever have a situation as black and white as, "Honey, do you want to have sex tonight?" "No." Or, "Honey, do you want to have sex tonight?" "Yes." There's so much more context and communication (spoken and unspoken) that goes into intimacy with a long term partner, that I just can't even imagine it happening that way with two people who love and care for each other and are trying to balance each other's needs with their own. Edited March 1, 2016 by JodiSue 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I think it's because most of us rarely ever have a situation as black and white as, "Honey, do you want to have sex tonight?" "No." There's so much more context and communication (spoken and unspoken) that goes into intimacy with a long term partner, that I just can't even imagine it happening that way with two people who love and care for each other and are trying to balance each other's needs with their own. Sooo, safe words? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yes, I am hung up on the word "no". The posts here defending it because marriage/love/relationship feeds into the prevalent rape culture in our society. You are not listening to what we are saying because you are so hyperfocused on 'no meaning no.' It is very insulting for you to say we are feeding the rape culture. Wow. Just wow. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) So, you (general you) all have "safe words"?Not necessary around here. Really, cannot imagine a situation that would come up in our relationship in which a safe word would be necessary. Maybe we're too boring. Or just too aware and in tune with each other. Edited March 1, 2016 by maize 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Sooo, safe words? No? I don't think I know what you mean. Maybe part of my confusion is that physical affection is a normal part of our day. There's no definitive line being drawn where it's like "now we will touch each other with the understanding that we will sleep together, is that ok with you?" Things either end up there or they don't, but I can't think of a time where I've just said no, because...well, that would be extremely weird in the context of our relationship. That, and I do like him an awful lot. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) You've never been in a situation where one person wanted to, the other didn't really, but after a little romance/snuggling/kissing/whatever, the mood changed and you were glad you didn't just walk away, or turn over and go to sleep?I have been known to say, "I don't really feel like it, but I could be convinced..." There have also been No Means No times, though. ETA: Strangely enough, I typed that about No Means No before I read the PP where this is hotly debated. Edited March 1, 2016 by Quill 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking Squirrels Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I plan on teaching them they shouldn't have sex until they are ready for it. Not when someone else tells them they should, not when an interested party pushes them to. I will encourage them to wait until 18ish just to get a bit more maturity and get through high school, but I'm not going to be upset at them if they choose to before then. I will make sure they know they can come to us any time they need for getting on the pill or acquiring other protection. It's part of life, it's part of who we are. I think the push and pressure to wait can make it into something bigger and more stressful than it needs to be. And my honest feelings on waiting until marriage is that it can encourage getting married before being ready. I'd rather they have sex when they are ready to and wait to be sure on marriage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I don't believe in unchaperoned dating in high school. How does that work? Do your teens not go anywhere without a chaperone? Re: Young marriage. If my kid wants to get married before the age of 25 or so, I will strongly recommend to the couple that they get a prenup. WITH such a document in place, I would even consider giving consent to my kid marrying before 18. What would a prenup do? I got married at 20yo without a prenup, since I was so young I didn't have any assets anyway, and any assets obtained during marriage would be split 50-50 since it was a communal property state. Are you talking about kids who *do* have assets despite being *young*? Yes, I am hung up on the word "no". The posts here defending it because marriage/love/relationship feeds into the prevalent rape culture in our society. There is "no, but you can try to get me in the mood", and "no, don't even dare touch me". I don't think it feeds into rape culture to have the former be the default *inside* a marriage, saying the latter specifically if you're really not in the mood. I usually specify either way, e.g. "I'm not in the mood, so don't get your hopes up, but you can cuddle me and see if I change my mind" - usually I change my mind, but not always. Now, if "I'm *really* not in the mood today" got a bunch of kissing etc attempting to persuade me, that'd bother me. As far as my own kids is concerned, my 8.5yo said something along the lines of sex being for marriage, and I haven't corrected him. I don't need a long, drawn-out conversations with an 8yo about the exact details of when *exactly* a non-marriage relationship is good enough. I'll get to that when he's older. He'll also get the "you have hands for a reason" talk when he's 11-12yo or so. And the usual talks about STDs, pregnancy, etc etc etc. Since both my kids are boys, they'll also get long lectures about how even if they are okay with abortion, and the girl says she's okay with abortion or that she'd give the kid up for adoption, that if an accident were to happen, they'd be powerless to make her have an abortion/adoption, that hormonal teenage girls quite often decide to have the baby after all, and that the legal system will make them pay lots of money for 18 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Ok I googled. I'm going to tell my DH we need to develop safe words. My safe word is when I fall asleep while we are cuddled watching TV together. lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Ok I googled. I'm going to tell my DH we need to develop safe words. My safe word is when I fall asleep while we are cuddled watching TV together. lol Wait, you're not okay with him having sex with you while asleep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Ok I googled. I'm going to tell my DH we need to develop safe words. My safe word is when I fall asleep while we are cuddled watching TV together. lol My safe words are "Go Away." As long as whomever is being told to go away goes away, everyone is perfectly safe. ;) 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yes, I am hung up on the word "no". The posts here defending it because marriage/love/relationship feeds into the prevalent rape culture in our society. Wow. I am not sure I have ever been so offended by a post on this board. Although the post upthread about how women who've had only one partner really don't know if the sex is actually good or not is a close second. So, you (general you) all have "safe words"? No, we don't need them. I don't know how to explain this any further without saying more about my personal life than one should say on a public message board. All I can say is that you are picturing something far, far different from the reality of my life and, apparently, the lives of others here. If I ever had to give a firm "no," it would mean no and would be accepted as no without complaint coercion, etc. What I am either not communicating well, or you are not getting, is that we know each other well enough that it never gets to the point that one of us has to say "no." 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Wait, you're not okay with him having sex with you while asleep? A girl has to draw the line somewhere. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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