How do kids with weak transcripts go to college?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I feel like the current culture of college is that every student has to have a fantastic transcript to get into even middle-of-the-road colleges these days. That may just be my perspective from watching a couple of friends with high-school-aged kids prepping for college right now, but it seems like mediocre students don't even have a chance.

 

My kids...they are not academic go-getters. I'm not worried about my youngest, because she is a fireball in other ways and will power herself through in some other way. Right now culinary school seems to be the route she'll take, but the bottom line is that, in anything other than math (I believe she has dyscalculia, we're scraping together the money for evaluations), if she puts her mind to something, she'll do it (she may burn out everyone around her in her desire on the way, though  :willy_nilly: ).

 

My oldest is struggling with anxiety and depression, and she has never been a go-getter. In fact, she's a hider. I'm pushing/pulling her through her schoolwork now, and at the end of the line, when it comes time for college applications, her transcripts are going to be less-than-impressive. I'm trying to find some outside-the-box learning opportunities for her, and I'm starting to think that high school is going to look like the 3 Rs and a lot of nontraditional activities along with them.

 

So how do kids with weak transcripts go to college? Or unschooled kids, who did lots of life learning but not the kind of "class learning" that translates to a traditional transcript? Do those kids go to CC first and then transfer? I know there are some colleges out there that value nontraditional students, but from what I've read, we can't afford any of them! 

 

Maybe I should x-post this on the high school/self-ed board...

 

TIA.

 

ETA: I forgot to add that even though it may be that college isn't for her, she actually thrives when she has independence and autonomy, and she is looking forward to college (theoretically). Right now we're operating on the premise that she'll blossom when she finally has the opportunity to be out on her own. She may not, but I think she will. It's getting her ready for that time that's killing me now!

Edited February 21, 2016 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[Hilltopmom]

We just recently had a "how to unschoolers get into college" on the high school board- try that thread:)

 

Maybe also search for the "homeschool high school without AP or DE" threads.

[Matryoshka]

Community College.  They take anyone.  You can just get an Associate's or certificate, or transfer to a 4-year from there.

 

State schools that are not the flagship.  Dd is attending one, even though she could probably gotten in someplace more selective - they have her major, they will take all her CC and AP credits, and she wants to attend grad school and graduate undergrad debt-free.  Anyway, at the open house, the speaker (dean or somebody) said that anyone that met the minimum requirements (2.something GPA, minimum course work in high school), had shown interest by attending the open house, and applied Early Action, would pretty much be guaranteed to get in.  If they didn't express active interest or applied Regular Decision, there was no such guarantee, but it still has a 70-something percent acceptance rate.  And it's affordable.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Matryoshka

[Gil]

I'd imagine the same way that PS kids with weak transcripts get in.

[SKL]

I think young people can still get into non-competitive state colleges as long as they agree to take remedial courses prior to embarking on the regular general courses (for example, if they flunk the English part of the entry exam, they may start their other general courses but need to take English 000 as a pre-requisite to English 101).  Tutoring and external resources are available, at least where I live.  If they can't pass the remedial courses then they flunk out.

 

For a kid who is not low-IQ but is low-motivation, I would probably rather they waited until an older age before they decided about college.  Flunking out or dropping out of college is a pretty costly endeavor.

[Crimson Wife]

I'm doing my 2nd bachelor's through Utah State online, which charges fairly reasonable tuition ($299/credit for out-of-state) and accepts just about everybody (97.8% in 2015). Now it takes a lot of self-discipline on the part of the student to get through the program so I wouldn't recommend it for a student with motivation struggles. But for a "late bloomer" it might be a great option.

[Dmmetler]

Also, small less competitive private schools. There are a lot of them. Some are actually pretty reasonably priced, too.

 

For a student who is perhaps less well prepared, I'd suggest looking for a college which really has a mission of supporting first generation college students. They tend to have more support available to help kids make up deficits, and realize that they need to make kids more aware that these exist.

[NorthwestMom]

Tons of colleges have high acceptance rates. Don't fall for the myth that only high achievers can get into college! It's going to be just fine.

 

Check out this list: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-acceptance-rate

[FaithManor]

In our area kids with transcripts that would not catch the eye of our better state universities or private schools have the option of community college or two local universities - one of whom I hate to say is called "Crappy State U" by the local teaching faculty - that have very generous admission policies and rolling admission so if the student is unsure if he/she will graduate on time due to waffling low grades, they can still toss an application in before a July cut-off. These schools do not have a good reputation, however it is possible to either get a degree where it doesn't really matter where you matriculate from or to get really good grades and transfer out. The transfer problem can be an issue because our four tier one universities - MSU, U of MI, WMU, and MTU do not accept crappy state u's credits and only occasionally a few of the community college credits since CC's vary so wildly here in terms of depth and quality. There are a few good CC's around the state and those can be excellent places for students with a weaker transcript to land because they really do have good reputations with the private schools and better universities.

 

A couple of the regional campuses of U of MI and MSU are really good and definitely a bit cheaper. They accept a broader range of students, but are quite happy to flunk out those same students if they do not avail themselves of tutoring services or buckle down and embrace the work load. However, for the student with a go to attitude, they can be a great option and are less expensive than their tier one mother institutions.

 

One of mine was accepted to U of MI but exercised and option to begin at the Flint campus in order to save money as well as keep an eye on a health issue - ie. be closer to us in case something went wrong - and will be at the main campus for his last two years thus graduating from the flagship. It will however, save him about $22,000.00 over having completed all four years at Ann Arbor.

 

There are lots of reasons that students with "strong transcripts" may be at a non-flagship school so don't count out all tier 2 schools as being "less than". Just choose carefully. Some regionals also have very unique programs with small class sizes that the tier one schools don't have which can be very lucrative depending on the student's interests. I've known many a "not so strong student" in high school that blossomed at a regional and then went on to be very successful in their area of passion. There is something to be said for small school nurturing. 

 

With over 3000 colleges and universities in the USA there is something for everyone who is willing to work.

 

 

[73349]

Nontraditional activities may actually be very interesting to a college that is looking to round out a class with with some kids who didn't come straight from the usual academic treadmill. Don't go for a transcript that says, "Just like everybody else," if that's not who the student is.

[Pen]

CC and transfer, less competitive state colleges, work to school programs (such as I think Starbucks has?), carefully chosen schools that fit the child's particular strengths...  For example, someone who had a poor overall transcript, but was a prodigy in music might get into a music specialty program.

[Daria]

I'm starting the college search with my kid with a "weak" transcript, although his profile is a little different than what you describe.  There are colleges out there for all sorts of kids.  It has been actually really reassuring to research and see how many options there are.  

 

One thing I will tell you is that once you get past the top tier of private schools, the listed tuition and fees mean nothing.  Schools seem to list their price at a certain level, because they want to communicate that they are "worth" that amount, but in reality no one pays that tuition.  I was looking at one school, I can't remember which one, which had a list of automatic scholarships based on GPA and test scores.  One scholarship, which was for $15,000 or something like that, was specifically identified as being for students with a GPA below 3.0 or SAT (CR+M) below 1000.  In other words, they offered it to every student who didn't have high enough marks and scores to get a scholarship higher than $15,000.  The same school says that 100% of their incoming freshmen get "merit aid".  In other words, their tuition is really $15,000 less than the tuition listed on their website 

[regentrude]

It is not difficult to "get into college". Community colleges take everybody. Many public colleges have 90%+ acceptance rates.

 

The idea that it requires a "fantastic" transcript to get into college is a misperception; the fantastic transcript is required for highly selective colleges.

[Barbara H]

One place to start might be with looking are regional state universities in your state (the "directional" schools - Eastern, Western, etc.)  and with small liberal arts colleges. Many small liberal arts colleges are not difficult in terms of admissions and they offer a friendly supportive environment. Frankly, a lot of schools NEED students and they are eager to get your student's application. Often these schools are open to the more "average" B/C sort of student and many are enthusiastic about homeschool candidates as well.  The College that Change Lives website is a great place to start reading about liberal arts colleges.

 

Focusing too much on the getting IN part can take away from the more important questions. Once you get out of the realm of the really highly selective colleges, for most families the bigger questions are -

How to pay for college?

How do we find a college where our student will fit in well socially and academically?
How do we get a good value for our college investment?
How do we make sure our homeschooler is well prepared to be successful academically and in terms of life skills?

 

 

[Jenny in Florida]

So how do kids with weak transcripts go to college? Or unschooled kids, who did lots of life learning but not the kind of "class learning" that translates to a traditional transcript? Do those kids go to CC first and then transfer? I know there are some colleges out there that value nontraditional students, but from what I've read, we can't afford any of them! 

 

There's a place in college for every student who is capable and wants to go.

 

The last time I checked, there were more places available in colleges in the U.S. than there were students to fill them.

 

Also, you might be surprsed at the range and variety of colleges that will be open to your student. Once you have a decent idea of what kind of transcript you are looking it (coursework, GPA, etc.), you can use sites like the College Board search, http://www.collegedata.comand parchment.com to plug in your student's stats and interests and so on and get a list of possibilities. 

 

If your student is willing to aim at colleges at which her grades and test scores would put her in the upper 10-25% of applicants, she might also find there is more scholarship money available than you might expect.

 

And interesting or non-traditional studies and/or activities just might catch the eye of an admissions office.

 

If none of that works out, as someone else said, community colleges are non-competive in terms of admission. If your student has graduated from high school, she will be accepted. And community colleges are usually very affordable, too. Two years at a community college is a wonderful way to get started that is open to pretty much any student who wants to give college a try.

[Tsuga]

It is not difficult to "get into college". Community colleges take everybody. Many public colleges have 90%+ acceptance rates.

 

The idea that it requires a "fantastic" transcript to get into college is a misperception; the fantastic transcript is required for highly selective colleges.

 

Or for scholarships.

 

But otherwise, yes.

[GoodGrief]

Getting into a college is not difficult.

 

The problem can arise if one is looking for a program that's not available at an in-state school. Qualifying for scholarships can be an issue too. Not everyone has the resources to pay even in-state tuition without help.

[Nan in Mass]

I remember feeling like that. The stories about how fierce the competition is these days are so scary! And they are true at the top. Colleges that I got into as a fairly ordinary student with not all A's, nothing spectacular for extra curricular activities, and a mix of honours and regular classes would be impossible now with my transcript. But for all the chitchat, getting into *a* college is not that hard, even with a weak transcript. Finding a college where your child will THRIVE can be harder, especially if you have an atypical student. So can finding a college you can afford, since scholarships are less likely with a weak transcript. Those things will narrow your choices considerably. And the really tricky part for students with weak transcripts is SURVIVING their classes and passing enough of them to graduate. If the transcript is weak but the student herself is well prepared and capable, then all is well. If the transcript is weak because the student struggles with academics, then it might be better to start at a good community college, one with plenty of support for struggling students and appropriate remedial classes.

 

There are colleges out there that are not at all selective, colleges who support themselves by accepting students they know will not be able to survive past the easy freshman classes. Some have more of a sign up process than an application process. They take the weak students' money for a year or so and then eliminate them with some difficult required weeder classes. In some ways it is good that there are colleges who will let anyone try, but it can be very expensive for the student.

 

When we toured our local state college, we were bluntly told by the college itself that it was a good place to go if you weren't a top student, that they welcomed them. Oldest went to an out of state college that "provisionally" accepted him. His public high school transcript contained almost no A's and quite a number of F's, but the real problem was that they were accepting him to an engineering program and he hadn't done any math for the last 3 years. They asked that he take college algebra at the community college and said they,d take him if he got a 2.0 or better. Their application says right on it to please apply if you really want to come even if you are missing classes because they will help you figure out how to prepare yourself if they think you can be successful in their program.

 

There is hope!

 

Nan

[JFSinIL]

Community college - either working towards transferring to a four-year school OR working towards a two- year degree or certificate in a field that does not need a four-year degree.  There is something for everyone at your local community college!

[teachermom2834]

In our area public universities (with the exception of the state flagship ) are pretty easy to get into. Satellite campuses and regional state universities seem to offer guaranteed admission for an ACT of 19 and very minimal coursework. That is for guaranteed admission. They do admit some students with lower scores.

 

Our local medium sized Christian university is basically open admission. They offer lots of remedial courses. It really still is a decent school. In our state any student who has met minimal state high school graduation requirements and has an ACT of 17 or so would be able to choose from multiple 4 year schools. It just is not that hard to get into the lower level colleges. Bigger question to me is how to pay. A student will not qualify for any merit aid. Full sticker price is high.

 

Academically college is pretty accessible to most students. Financially it is harder.

 

I tend to think these less prepared students do not graduate but the school makes money off of them for awhile. But, the optimist in me is sure some kids take hold of the chance and do graduate in spite of not doing well in high school.

[amy g.]

My oldest never even had a high school transcript. At 18, she started at the local community college. She started out just taking 2 classes at a time since she had never been in a classroom before.

 

She made As. She was invited to take honors classes and was given an honors scholarship to CC. She is about to get her associates degree and is receiving some very nice transfer scholarships to both public and private universities, all without a high school transcript.

 

When we were filling out scholarship applications, it stuck me that the very things that made her a stand out candidate were all the things she focused on that we're not academic in nature.

 

Her 400 volunteer hours and her rodeo grand championships and the business she incorporated when she was 16 all set her apart from the applicants who have only high GPAs.

 

All of that was just to say that the kid who has NO interest in school or grades in high school has been able to make her way in the world in part because of all of the non academic advantages that homeschooling gave her.

[G5052]

Yes, and I've seen over and over how some kids mature in college and take off. Struggling in high school doesn't necessarily mean that college isn't going to go well.

 

Most community colleges do have an "open door" admissions policy. I always laugh when the local $30,000/ year prep school advertises "100% college admissions for our graduates." Unless you are on parole for a violent crime and/or have placement scores that put you below a 6th grade level in reading and/or math, you're in.

 

Getting in isn't an issue, it's staying in!

[Prairie~Phlox]

First I ask, do they want to go to college? My daughter was very self motivated. I thibk for my sons, I may go the high school equivalency test route, 1. So I know exactly where they are lacking & 2. So they don't have to do anymore than necessary to make the transcript look just ok & then they will be expected to do some type of training beyond that, whether it be community college or a specific certification towards something. Not everyone is cut out for a four year degree.

[Joyofsixreboot]

My 2 kids currently in college attend state schools that are commutable (50 miles away). Both schools looked at SAT's and really didn't care about anything else. Maybe we don't have big enough dreams but it didn't seem too hard to get in.

[Lanny]

Community College seems like the best route. If the student really changes and gets excellent grades in the CC, then there is a much better chance of transferring into a good school.  

[DawnM]

Here is the truth.

 

MOST careers don't need a flagship school on your resume to get the job!

 

There are exceptions for sure, but most don't!

[Nan in Mass]

Yes, and I've seen over and over how some kids mature in college and take off. Struggling in high school doesn't necessarily mean that college isn't going to go well.

 

...

 

Getting in isn't an issue, it's staying in!

 

Yes - it's STAYING IN.

 

(And paying for it.)

 

The whole application process favours the early bloomers.  If you have a late bloomer or a student who developed other non-academic areas of themselves in high school, then getting into a top college can be a problem.  Fortunately, most colleges are not top colleges.  The real problem for the late bloomers and the was doing something elsers is developing their academic skills fast enough to stay in college once they are there.

 

The years before college in many ways are the ideal time to develop non-academic bits of oneself, especially if there is a physical side to what one is doing.  LOL - So many interesting things to do and so little time in one lifetime to do it all. 

 

Nan

Edited February 22, 2016 by Nan in Mass

[linders]

Honestly, I would be more concerned about the fact that you have to push/pull her through her current schoolwork. The weak transcript sounds more like a symptom of an issue than the issue itself.

 

Unless something changes, how will she handle college, when you won't be there to do that? If the hope is that you can continue to provide support, then a local CC would be appropriate, along with helping her develop skills to be more independent and/or motivated in her work.

[wendy not in HI]

I think what Linders said is important.  If you are having to push/pull her now, do you think something will change in college? Do you think it will be helpful for her in the future if you continue to push and pull her through school?  Will you have to continue to push and pull her to work??

 

I know for my sister who really struggled in school, it took some growing up before she was able to do well in college.  She started and dropped out of community college several times in her early 20's.  But when she was about 28, she took another class and loved it.  Then she took more classes and has done really well, keeping her grades up at about a B average.  She is really close to getting her bachelors and has been able to juggle school, work, and single parenting.  I am so impressed with her. 

 

She has done it herself this time.  In her 20's my parents were sort of pushing her and occasionally helping her pay, but that was not motivation for her - it may have actually worked against her as she is sort of a "rebel". (Have you read Gretchen Rubin's "Better than Before"?  She talks about different personalities, and it has been helpful for me as I guide my own "rebel" toward her next step.  My daughter really has to make her own choices.  If she feels like I'm pushing her, she will push back and do the opposite...)

 

Back to my sister - she is someone who needed to decide for herself that school was important, and I kind of think she wanted to be able to prove everyone wrong. She struggled to read when she was in early elementary, and then didn't do well through middle school and into high school.  She says she thought she was just not smart enough, but she has found out that she is smart! She can do well in school!  She is a good reader! Studying works! I'm just not sure she would have ever realized that if my parents continued to push her.

 

I really do think it's okay for some kids to not go to traditional college.  Having a job for a year or so before deciding to go to college is great for some people. Or finding her passion through a technical certificate might be her thing! Working in a hot kitchen might be the right motivation for someone to get some more schooling...

[G5052]

Here is the truth.

 

MOST careers don't need a flagship school on your resume to get the job!

 

There are exceptions for sure, but most don't!

 

I would go so far as to say "nearly all."

 

As an example, I went to state colleges for both my undergraduate and graduate degrees. You'll see them on the "top 100 list" for this and that, but just barely. I did graduate in the 10 percent and had plum summer jobs, but that wasn't unheard of for that school. My first job after graduation came from a summer job.

 

In every job after graduation, I worked with people from the Ivies, military academies, MIT, Cal Tech, etc. I worked for 15 years before my oldest was born for a university and then the government.

 

And there was never a salary difference or a difference in advancement. 

 

Certainly if you're aiming for top-flight academia or professional tiers, it will make a difference where you go to school. In general though? No.

[Carol in Cal.]

If it's a maturity issue, I'd say that a gap year of working and saving and goal definition, followed by CC (and doing well there), would probably be the easiest path to a good university later on if that turns out to be the goal.  And if it's not, there are plenty of middle of the road colleges that give perfectly good degrees as long as you don't want something highly competitive. 

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Or for scholarships.

 

But otherwise, yes.

 

 

True, some scholarships are merit based, but not all.  Many scholarships aren't based on grades at all, especially when the degree program isn't academically challenging.  

 

My son got into a media program at a media arts university, and got a sizable scholarship based solely on an essay about how his creative mind led him to that school.  

[Katy]

Many schools will accept anyone that can afford to go there or who is willing to take loans to pay the tuition.