What say the Hive: Rude or not rude?

[medawyn]

Saturday we had a large (40ish) people party as a going away party for my husband/our family.  He is leaving immediately after Thanksgiving to start a new job, and the kids and I are following a few weeks later.

 

Sunday was our day of rest/clean up/packing and prep.  About three o'clock, one of our party goers stopped by to pick up his car.  He apparently over-served himself and chose to get a ride home, which was an excellent idea.  Unfortunately, yesterday he stayed until 8 pm.

 

Consequently DH got relatively little done on what is, basically, one of his last two days home.  He has not packed for Thanksgiving nor started packing to drive half way across the country.  The dozen lightbulbs that are out are still out.  (And I can put these in myself, but they are in our super high, 17' ceilings, so help is nice.)  My dishwasher still has standing water in it.  (I've tried to repair this myself, so I'll be calling in the plumber after Thanksgiving, I guess.)  There about half a dozen other small things undone, which will fall on my shoulders in the next few weeks.  This doesn't even touch the family time he missed out on.

 

I'm irritated, because I think DH should either have encouraged our unexpected visitor to leave or to get busy with things while he was here.  Since he was an uninvited guest (and a newish work colleague rather than a long-standing friend), I guess I don't consider it rude not to encourage an extended visit.  DH contends that would have been rude, and his job was to provide hospitality for as long as someone wants to stay.

 

Am I just irritated because I didn't get my productive (and guest free) Sunday?  Or could DH have encouraged our visitor to leave earlier without being rude (or heck, gotten his help climbing on our giant ladder if he was immune to hints)?

[J-rap]

I've learned that some people are just like that.  They don't seem to have that social awareness, for whatever reason.  They are generally the same people who don't mind if you say, "So sorry, don't mean to kick you out, but we have to get back to packing now.  Thanks for stopping by!"  I know that feels uncomfortable to do, but sometimes you just have to do it.

 

 

[regentrude]

Your DH should have told the unexpected visitor that he was busy packing and unfortunately had not time to hang out and chat.

This is not rude;  people who drop in unannounced should not, and usually also do not, expect  hospitality.

But unless the hosts make it clear, it may not occur to the guest that his presence is inconvenient. I would take it as a sign that the guest thoroughly enjoyed himself the night before.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2015 by regentrude

[Amy in NH]

Dh should have continued to work while socializing. Be mad at him, not the guy who didn't leave, particularly if Dh was somehow giving him cues to stay.

[Cinder]

I think you have good reason to be irritated. Your time is short and this guy turned a 5 minute visit into 5 hours!

[catz]

Some people are just this way. So yes that is rude. However, it is a life skill to be able to say "Bob, it was great seeing you,but I have errands and stuff to get to since we are leaving soon so I will have to say goodbye now."

[KungFuPanda]

The guy wasn't rude, your DH just seems unwilling or unable to communicate clearly or set boundaries.

[maize]

It would not have been at all rude for your husband to send him on his way after a brief exchange of pleasantries.

[Bluegoat]

I think your husband could have sent him off without being rude - just point out that he only had a short time left to complete some jobs.

 

However - I do think that rules of hospitality are one of those things where background makes a big difference.  Some families and some cultures have guidelines that are fairly strict.  They run into problems though when one person knows them (say, I can't ask a guest to leave) and another doesn't (don't stay longer than 20 min.)

 

navigating those can end up in wonky situations.

[medawyn]

The guy wasn't rude, your DH just seems unwilling or unable to communicate clearly or set boundaries.

 

This was one of those cases where his extrovert/super social nature collided with his ADHD sense of time, which usually leaves me, the introvert and keeper of the family schedule, annoyed.  This is one of those ongoing marriage conversations, you know?

[DesertBlossom]

I've learned that some people are just like that. They don't seem to have that social awareness, for whatever reason. They are generally the same people who don't mind if you say, "So sorry, don't mean to kick you out, but we have to get back to packing now. Thanks for stopping by!" I know that feels uncomfortable to do, but sometimes you just have to do it.

This is exactly what my Dh says. Je works in a busy retail/sales type potition and he has some people who want to stay and gab with him. He says those same people who don't get those social cues and realize they are wasting his time also don't get offended when he cuts them off and says he has to get back to work. Edited November 23, 2015 by DesertBlossom

[medawyn]

Dh should have continued to work while socializing. Be mad at him, not the guy who didn't leave, particularly if Dh was somehow giving him cues to stay.

 

 

I think you have good reason to be irritated. Your time is short and this guy turned a 5 minute visit into 5 hours!

 

Oh, I am :-) I was just checking to make sure my irritation wasn't completely out of whack.  I had leftover pie for second breakfast; that helped a little :-)

 

 

 

ETA the all important contents of second breakfast!

Edited November 23, 2015 by HOPE_Academy

[medawyn]

I think your husband could have sent him off without being rude - just point out that he only had a short time left to complete some jobs.

 

However - I do think that rules of hospitality are one of those things where background makes a big difference.  Some families and some cultures have guidelines that are fairly strict.  They run into problems though when one person knows them (say, I can't ask a guest to leave) and another doesn't (don't stay longer than 20 min.)

 

navigating those can end up in wonky situations.

 

I think that's where DH and I were having a communication failure last night.  He just didn't seem to understand that we aren't necessarily obligated to entertain all guests, all the time.  I started wondering if I had the wrong end of the stick.  We'll just have to keep working at setting mutually agreeable boundaries around guests - especially the unexpected ones - in our home.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have sort of a mixed response to this.

 

It sounds like your husband doesn't manage his time very well to start with--he should have been as frantic as you about this, and the fact that he is sanguine about it would be hard for me, since it leaves me to do things alone that he was planned to help with.  My feeling would be that he chose to have a good time with an acquaintance rather than keep his commitment to me, and that would be annoying.  

 

My hope would have been that he would start working on some of those projects while still conversing with this guy.  In my world, it would have gone down exactly like it did in your world, and it would have left me to either be the bitch who asks for some chores to be attended to in front of company, or the clean up woman who does them all myself later on after DH is gone.  Neither are appealing.  I would be somewhat ticked off at being put into that position, but not so much at the guest as at the irresponsible spouse who seized on this opportunity to get out of some irritating household chores that he will now never get around to.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Yes, the guy should have thought, gee, I shouldn't intrude on family time.

 

Yes, your dh should have told him he needed to get chores done.

 

But don't spend your last 24 hours being irritated.  If it were any other weekend, this would be a no-big-deal annoyance, so just let it go.  :-)

[Guest]

This was one of those cases where his extrovert/super social nature collided with his ADHD sense of time, which usually leaves me, the introvert and keeper of the family schedule, annoyed.  This is one of those ongoing marriage conversations, you know?

 

btdt a bazillion times. You are completely correct. There's nothing abnormal about going "It was great to see you man, I gotta get back to packing."

[Carol in Cal.]

btdt a bazillion times. You are completely correct. There's nothing abnormal about going "It was great to see you man, I gotta get back to packing."

Or, even better (and more likely to pass his 'politeness' muster), "It's great to see you, man, want to give me a hand with these light bulbs?"

[Janie Grace]

Wow, I can totally relate to every aspect of that scenario.

 

Chances are, your dh is a really nice guy and people love to be around him. He values people over projects and harmony over expediency. 

 

This sometimes makes me nuts about dh and I get angry. However, it helps me to remember that it's part of why I love him. Sure, you'd have a shorter to-do list if he was a more get-down-to-business, blunt guy. But then he wouldn't be the guy you love. 

[Cinder]

Oh, I am :-) I was just checking to make sure my irritation wasn't completely out of whack.  I had leftover pie for second breakfast; that helped a little :-)

 

 

 

ETA the all important contents of second breakfast!

 

:drool:   Ooh, now I want pie for breakfast. I had the eensiest slice of leftover red velvet cake from ds1's b-day; had to leave the rest for him though. Because, y'know, *birthday* cake. But I'd still rather have pie!

[SKL]

I think it was up to DH to say something.  It's impossible for me to say whether the guest was justified in feeling welcome to hang around idly.

 

The friend should have offered to help if it was obvious there was work to be done.  This is something I just explained to my kids last Sunday, when they may or may not have prevented their friend's family from getting some yard work done.

 

 

[Guest]

Or, even better (and more likely to pass his 'politeness' muster), "It's great to see you, man, want to give me a hand with these light bulbs?"

 

Maybe. And for someone like *me,* definitely. The ADD adults in my life simply can not do things in a group like this though, without someone supervising them telling them what needs to be done. It would go,

 

Can you help me with these lightbulbs?

I love these lightbulbs.

Remember when you had to change lightbulbs practically ever five minutes b/c they barely lasted?

When I was in college we used to buy them in bulk.

When stores stared using these long lasting buls, I had a friend who stockpiles incandescent bulbs because he thought it was some kind of government conspiracy.

chucklr chuckle chuckle

Hey! Have you seen our pantry? Ohh I am going to miss having a pantry this big and organized! Let me show you.

 

2 hours later, wife walks by, sees open package of lighbulbs. Goes and hunts down DH who is FOR SOME REASON half-heartedly cleaning something to look busy, but wife already cleaning that thing and for the love of everythng beautiful in the world can this other just LEAVE so that DH can go put up the lightbulbs; wife is scared of ladders and he KNOWS that....but he's just going to leave it for wife so what? He can chat with this random dude all day, the day after a big party???????!!!!!!! :cursing: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing:

 

This is going almost verbatim in my autobiography :laugh:

[Guest]

Wow, I can totally relate to every aspect of that scenario.

 

Chances are, your dh is a really nice guy and people love to be around him. He values people over projects and harmony over expediency. 

 

This sometimes makes me nuts about dh and I get angry. However, it helps me to remember that it's part of why I love him. Sure, you'd have a shorter to-do list if he was a more get-down-to-business, blunt guy. But then he wouldn't be the guy you love. 

 

Also true :)

[gardenmom5]

I'm sorry to have to tell you this - your dh is a doormat.

 

while entertaining unexpected guests can be gracious if you do NOT have pressing things to do (even if that pressing thing is vegging out), hosts need to develop the skill of how to encourage guests (even those who've been invited) to depart  after a reasonable time so they don't over stay their welcome.

[gardenmom5]

Oh, I am :-) I was just checking to make sure my irritation wasn't completely out of whack.  I had leftover pie for second breakfast; that helped a little :-)

 

 

 

ETA the all important contents of second breakfast!

 

then what do you eat for elevensies?

[medawyn]

I'm sorry to have to tell you this - your dh is a doormat.

 

while entertaining unexpected guests can be gracious if you do NOT have pressing things to do (even if that pressing thing is vegging out), hosts need to develop the skill of how to encourage guests (even those who've been invited) to depart  after a reasonable time so they don't over stay their welcome.

 

His problem is more an elastic sense of time.  His ADHD brain optimistically thinks all chores will fit, no matter what the time frame is.  I find this unbelievable frustrating, although I  am working on realizing that he/his brain probably won't change.  Therefore, it's my responses that have to change, whether that's to shelve my frustration or remind him more frequently of "real world" time.

 

then what do you eat for elevensies?

 

I ate a leftover samosa :-) 

[bettyandbob]

It would not have been rude to state that you were busy packing. He was at the party. He knew dh needed to pack.

 

It would not have been rude to pack in front of him. I don't mind company and friendly conversation while I work.

 

It also would not have been for dh to say "since you are here, do you have time to help me with this dishwasher..."

 

The visitor was rude, but mostly clueless that his behavior was an issue as opposed to an arrogant all about me personality.

[HS Mom in NC]

 

 

I'm irritated, because I think DH should either have encouraged our unexpected visitor to leave or to get busy with things while he was here.

 

I completely agree.  I think your husband is at fault here.  He should've greeted the guy, chatted with him for a few minutes, and then sent the guy on his way. 

 

 

Since he was an uninvited guest (and a newish work colleague rather than a long-standing friend), I guess I don't consider it rude not to encourage an extended visit.  DH contends that would have been rude, and his job was to provide hospitality for as long as someone wants to stay.

 

Nope. It's never his job to extend hospitality as long as someone wants to stay.  It's outrageously rude of the co-worker to expect to stay without being invited for a visit. (I have no idea if the co-worker expected that or was invited in by your husband.)  It was far more important for your husband job to finish up his responsibilities than to entertain an unexpected, uninvited, unannounced guest. Not even close. 

 

Am I just irritated because I didn't get my productive (and guest free) Sunday?  Or could DH have encouraged our visitor to leave earlier without being rude (or heck, gotten his help climbing on our giant ladder if he was immune to hints)?

 

Yes, by being honest.  "Hey, coworker guy, glad to see you're feeling better. (Insert a few minutes of chit chat if co-worker guy seems to want to talk.) Then end with  I'm so glad you came to the party.  Thanks for coming, but I've got a pile of stuff to do before I leave.  Goodybye!"

 

Your husband probably needs to read the boundaries book or something like it.

 

 

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

His problem is more an elastic sense of time.  His ADHD brain optimistically thinks all chores will fit, no matter what the time frame is.  

Wow, I never knew this about ADD.  It explains so much in my life.  SO MUCH.

[happi duck]

I don't think visitor was rude because it sounds like your dh happily visited with not even a hint.

 

I don't think it would have been rude for your dh to visit a bit and then say "gotta go" or "help me out".

[Guest]

Wow, I never knew this about ADD.  It explains so much in my life.  SO MUCH.

 

Smart but scattered, the book, is really helpful for the person on the outside. So to speak :)

[Carol in Cal.]

So to speak.  Alternatively, so to yell.  Or at least, so to be TEMPTED to yell.

[Garga]

Why didn't you say something? Either to the guest directly or to your DH at the time?

[Robin M]

Next time, if there is a next time, you will have to be the one to direct the person to the door.  I do it with my husband who is quite gabby.  I don't care who the person is, if they are interrupting our day, arriving unannounced and we are in the middle of something, I stay next to hubby, politely cut the conversation short and guide them gently out the door.  And Yes,I'm an introvert.  And yes, I would have been upset given that you had entertained the guy the night before.  He really didn't need to stay and you are the rudder that steers your family's ship.  So steer away, my dear.    

[mom2scouts]

I think we have the same husband. The only difference is that my husband would have gone to the guy's house to help him with some of *his* projects while leaving me with all of our projects. If I complained, my ADD husband would have claimed that he had to help the guy that day because it was the only day to do it before he moved out of town. :glare:  :001_rolleyes:   

[Jennifer132]

It was rude for the guest to stay if your dh didn't invite him in. If your dh invited him in, then I would assume that the guest thought you all wanted him to stay. If you didn't want him to stay, that should've been delicately stated at the front door (...I would love to invite you in, but we so much last minute stuff to do...). If your dh wanted him to leave, he should've dropped hints (standing up at the tail end of a conversation and putting his hand out for a shake, while saying, "well, I'm glad you were able to stop by! I'm sure you realize we have a lot to do this afternoon..."). I would have no problem asking the guest to help with chores too, if he wanted to stay.

[HS Mom in NC]

 

 

"DH contends that would have been rude, and his job was to provide hospitality for as long as someone wants to stay."

This is not ADD.  This is someone who has very wrong ideas about social obligations.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[TammyS]

This is exactly what my Dh says. Je works in a busy retail/sales type potition and he has some people who want to stay and gab with him. He says those same people who don't get those social cues and realize they are wasting his time also don't get offended when he cuts them off and says he has to get back to work.

 

Sometimes, I'm one of those people.  If your cues are really obvious, I'll get it.  But if you are making subtle hints, it might go right by me.  But if you say, "I gotta get back to work" I'm not offended.  I figure we are adults and can use our words, right?

[TammyS]

He just didn't seem to understand that we aren't necessarily obligated to entertain all guests, all the time. 

 

I would think that the problem here is the definition of "guest".  If someone just drops by, they aren't a guest.  They aren't necessarily unwelcome, but part of dropping by is that you take what you get, which might be nothing at all.  But you aren't a guest and wouldn't have the same expectations.

 

[Guest]

 

"DH contends that would have been rude, and his job was to provide hospitality for as long as someone wants to stay."

This is not ADD.  This is someone who has very wrong ideas about social obligations.

 

 

They think it works this way because there's all the time in the world, so why not be super friendly and entertaining. They literaly don't "feel" time go by.

[TammyS]

.

 

It sounds like your husband doesn't manage his time very well to start with--he should have been as frantic as you about this, and the fact that he is sanguine about it would be hard for me, since it leaves me to do things alone that he was planned to help with.  My feeling would be that he chose to have a good time with an acquaintance rather than keep his commitment to me, and that would be annoying.  

 

 

 

It feels sort of like that, doesn't it?  Also, after maybe 15 minutes, I would have no problem stopping in and saying, "DH really needs to get back to work, so we'll have to see you later, unless you'd like to help."

 

[zoobie]

It was rude to you and your family for DH to put off obligations to be with you to have fun with his friend. The friend isn't a mind reader, but staying that long uninvited is weird.

[38carrots]

I think your DH subconsciously (hopefully!)  found a very convenient excuse not to help you out by "being polited to the guest." Having elastic sense of time, as you said, helped him not to be too worried about the long term consequences. It seems like one clueless guy came over to pick up his car, started talking with another clueless guy, and the rest is history. Sorry you are dealing with this. My DH would've behaved exactly like yours, unfortunately.

[kewb]

I don't mind drop in guests but I also have no problem telling the drop in that I have work to do. They are welcome to stay and help me while they visit or they can leave.

My dh would see this as a great way to get out of something he agreed to do. Not in a malicious way but in a "hey, he was visiting. What was I supposed to do" way. That said, I also have no issues telling his guests to pitch in or go home.

[Robin M]

I don't know about any of your hubbies, but mine can't work and talk at the same time.  So funny if he is cleaning and and I'm in the room. Takes forever.  

[HS Mom in NC]

They think it works this way because there's all the time in the world, so why not be super friendly and entertaining. They literaly don't "feel" time go by.

 

I still don't believe that's ADD.  That's someone stating what they think the social rules are.  I know people with ADD who wouldn't say a guest as the right to stay as long as they like. They also understand the "work first, then play" rule but sometimes get distracted by other work tasks that need doing. Does he manage to meet deadlines and complete assignments at work?

 

After my c-section with my middle daughter I lost my sense of time.  I literally didn't feel time to go by at all for 6 months.  However, I didn't need to feel time going by to be ware of the fact that time does go by.  I was perfectly able to understand the idea that time goes by and I was perfectly capable of constantly looking at clocks and setting timers me to feed my baby, feed my family, get things done, get to appointment on time, etc.

 

I think waaay too many allowances are made to excuse people who aren't naturally inclined to things rather than spending time figuring out ways to help them adapt or demanding they find ways to adapt if they're adults.   I may not be naturally be good at large scale spacial estimates, but I still have to follow the rules everyone else does when it comes to driving a car.  My husband doesn't have depth perception but he can still drive because he's found ways to adapt.

 

 

[Guest]

After my c-section with my middle daughter I lost my sense of time.  I literally didn't feel time to go by at all for 6 months.  However, I didn't need to feel time going by to be ware of the fact that time does go by.  I was perfectly able to understand the idea that time goes by and I was perfectly capable of constantly looking at clocks and setting timers me to feed my baby, feed my family, get things done, get to appointment on time, etc.

 

I think waaay too many allowances are made to excuse people who aren't naturally inclined to things rather than spending time figuring out ways to help them adapt or demanding they find ways to adapt if they're adults.   I may not be naturally be good at large scale spacial estimates, but I still have to follow the rules everyone else does when it comes to driving a car.  My husband doesn't have depth perception but he can still drive because he's found ways to adapt.

 

 

 

Congrats HMIA, on not having ADD.

 

I don't thinking naming the very real and present ADD is "making excuses." I don't see anyone saying, "Oh it's ADD, so don't ever mention it to your husband."

 

You have to recognize the problem before you can take steps to rectify it ("adapt," as you say) so I don't even know why you're arguing about this.

 

As to driving with no depth perception? .................mmmk

[maize]

I still don't believe that's ADD. That's someone stating what they think the social rules are. I know people with ADD who wouldn't say a guest as the right to stay as long as they like. They also understand the "work first, then play" rule but sometimes get distracted by other work tasks that need doing. Does he manage to meet deadlines and complete assignments at work?

 

After my c-section with my middle daughter I lost my sense of time. I literally didn't feel time to go by at all for 6 months. However, I didn't need to feel time going by to be ware of the fact that time does go by. I was perfectly able to understand the idea that time goes by and I was perfectly capable of constantly looking at clocks and setting timers me to feed my baby, feed my family, get things done, get to appointment on time, etc.

 

I think waaay too many allowances are made to excuse people who aren't naturally inclined to things rather than spending time figuring out ways to help them adapt or demanding they find ways to adapt if they're adults. I may not be naturally be good at large scale spacial estimates, but I still have to follow the rules everyone else does when it comes to driving a car. My husband doesn't have depth perception but he can still drive because he's found ways to adapt.

 

 

Maybe this should be a spinoff, but I'm on my phone and would have a hard time cutting and pasting a quote. I want to know what "time going by" feels like. Is this really something most people experience? I've only recently learned that ADHD impacts sense of time, though it explains so much about myself. I'm wondering what exactly it is I am missing out on!

[Ellie]

Next time, if there is a next time, you will have to be the one to direct the person to the door.  I do it with my husband who is quite gabby.  I don't care who the person is, if they are interrupting our day, arriving unannounced and we are in the middle of something, I stay next to hubby, politely cut the conversation short and guide them gently out the door.  And Yes,I'm an introvert.  And yes, I would have been upset given that you had entertained the guy the night before.  He really didn't need to stay and you are the rudder that steers your family's ship.  So steer away, my dear.    

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[medawyn]

Why didn't you say something? Either to the guest directly or to your DH at the time?

 

 

Next time, if there is a next time, you will have to be the one to direct the person to the door.  I do it with my husband who is quite gabby.  I don't care who the person is, if they are interrupting our day, arriving unannounced and we are in the middle of something, I stay next to hubby, politely cut the conversation short and guide them gently out the door.  And Yes,I'm an introvert.  And yes, I would have been upset given that you had entertained the guy the night before.  He really didn't need to stay and you are the rudder that steers your family's ship.  So steer away, my dear.    

 

Yes, this is what I should have done.  I think at the beginning of the visit, I just couldn't fathom that DH wouldn't say after a bit "Hey, I've got a super busy afternoon, so..."  And then I felt like I was in some sort of weird social experiment where the wife just goes about the day (including feeding, bathing, and putting children to bed) and crankily wondered if it would end.  Next time there will be less passive aggressive and more assertive, especially since I now know how irritating the first time was!

[Guest]

Maybe this should be a spinoff, but I'm on my phone and would have a hard time cutting and pasting a quote. I want to know what "time going by" feels like. Is this really something most people experience? I've only recently learned that ADHD impacts sense of time, though it explains so much about myself. I'm wondering what exactly it is I am missing out on!

 

Do you know that feeling when you know someone is looking at you?

 

It's kind of like that. But you're the watcher, and it's time lol

 

I tend to the other extreme. I can think "I need to wake up in exactly six hours," go to sleep, and pop open my eyes exactly 6 hours later. It's*very* disconcerting to me when I feel like time "got away from me."

 

My ADD peoples, otoh, can, for example, make the same 30 minute drive every day for years...know in their minds it takes thirty minutes....and still leave when they need to be there in twenty minutes....absolutely, positively, legitimately feeling like they have plenty of time.