Xahm Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 So, I'm in the middle of a Facebook conversation with the pastor of the church we have already decided to leave. I've known him and his family for a long time and due to family ties will likely be in the same room as him, his wife, and kids several times a year. His responses are totally baffling me despite the fact that we come from similar conservative theological backgrounds (though I'm less conservative now and I think he's taken a sharp turn somewhere) Have any of you heard anything like this? Is there an author/blogger who is promoting these views? We are leaving this church no matter what at this point, but I'm concerned enough that we may pass our concerns up the chain and I want to understand more before I take such action. As part of a conversation about refugees, he stated that the biblical command to love our neighbor only applies to those "who can walk to my door, knock on it, and ask for help." I asked him about the church's response to the homeless who had been using the church's hose to bathe. He replied that he believes that blocking access to water and doing nothing else (zero percent of church budget to ministry of any sort) was completely correct. When I asked about verses about being known by our fruit and faith without works is dead, he responded that "looking at the poor and asking for good works by those with faith is "a leftist and antichrist list of good works. Volunteerism is not a good work in God's kingdom." Have any of you heard something like this? It would not shock me if he has read something, taken one aspect of it, and run with it. I'm avoiding giving this too much emotional investment and praying about what to do, but I was just accused of having antichrist theology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Never heard that and it is ridiculous, in my opinion. God's Word doesn't say that anywhere. This sounds like a conversation I would exit pronto. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Um, has he read his bible? Ever? Does he not have the story of the Good Samaritan in it? Or talk about "the least of these"? 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 The guy is a wack job. I would not even engage him in conversation any longer. Considering my parents gave their entire lives to missions in Africa, we clearly would not see eye to eye on that one. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 While I think there is room for disagreement among people of good will about what to do about the refugees (personally, I don't think the two sides of this argument, care for the needy and security concerns, are mutually exclusive), his response only brings one thing to my mind: When you see crazy coming, cross the street. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 He is dead wrong. This is not a gray area. He has completely fallen off the map here. 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarasue7272 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 After reading that article about Westboro that someone posted, it sounds like them! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 My mind is blown that a Christian pastor would believe that. His theology is much closer to antichrist than your own. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Pretty sure the guy the Good Samaritan helped out wasn't walking anywhere on knocking on doors! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Well . . . I was going to say he's a nutter. But everybody else has done a much more polite job of wording that. ;) 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 If one of those homeless people followed him home and knocked on his door, would he open his door and actually provide help when asked. Or would he look out the window, call the police and them a stalker is at his house. Then justify not helping by saying the person never asked for help without acknowledging he never gave the person a chance. I digress. I don't consider a pastor with the beliefs you've described Christian. Only God will know if he is. As a Christian, I look for Christian leaders (pastors not politicians) who can clearly express and demonstrate God's love. I'd definitely find a new church and limit contact. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Thank you all for confirming my sanity. I guess I'm hoping, for the sake of his family, that he read some blog by a guy with a Phd in BS who had a specific definition of "Volunteerism" that this man misunderstood and is now applying to all kind or generous acts. Though thinking about it more, I don't know how that would help. Maybe make it easier to not feel as awkward around his wife, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Well . . . I was going to say he's a nutter. But everybody else has done a much more polite job of wording that. ;) I didn't! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I've not heard of his theory before. He certainly sounds off. No wonder you're leaving. With him being in error in such a basic tenet of Christianity, I wouldn't be able to trust anything else he taught. Caring for others is pretty much what the whole thing is about. Bizarre. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 He serves a Jesus I do not know. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Geesh no clue, but that sounds so bizarre to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I think 'Jesus's teachings confirm my political leanings' is fairly common . What's unusual about this fellow is that he has the gall to lecture it from the pulpit, I pity the people he is supposed to serve. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Since everyone has already covered this really well, I'm going to up the ante. (And in the time it took me to type this with children climbing on me, other people said the same thing better than I could have.) I am a Christian. If I thought my religion said that we shouldn't help those in need, that we were wrong to help the homeless, the poor, the widow and orphan, the least of these, etc. I would be questioning my religion. As it is my heart is still grieving at the people I have seen in the last week quoting from the Bible as a reason not to help Muslims. People shouldn't even need the commands in the Bible to help others. I mean, how can a human being look at someone else in need and not want to help? But the idea that the Bible says the opposite? It doesn't. If it did, I would be questioning my belief. Edited November 20, 2015 by beaners 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 He is completely nuts. Christ's whole big message was to love one another -- not to sit and twiddle our thumbs and wait for others to come to us. Don't give him another thought. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 If I recall my Bible correctly, Jesus served the UNworthy. That was why he was so revolutionary. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 The only thing I can think of - and I am really reaching here - is that he does not want people to think that good works will give them a pass to heaven. But really I just think he's kind of crazy. Those kinds of conversations on facebook seem useless to me, but if you wanted to continue, you could point him to James 2:14-26. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 So we should want secular institutions to not encourage doing good so that Christians can be distinctive for it? That's seriously messed up.. It is messed up, but it does seem his logic has gone: Helping the poor is a liberal thing and liberals are bad so helping the poor is bad. Seriously messed up. Normally I'd drop it and just feel bad for him, but he has a position of authority (albeit in a small and dying church) and an ordination in a denomination I'm not ready to leave just yet. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 We Christians have all experienced times when we've failed to be kind and loving, or other times when we've been influenced by someone's teaching that we later realized wasn't quite right. Just remember that when you disagree with him, extend your own kindness and grace to him. I don't know where he is getting this from, but it may be because of a growing push (it's in our high schools) to do what the church has always traditionally done in their communities in helping the poor, etc. Except now, it's promoted as as being a good, secular world citizen. It's kinds like,"We can be just as Christian as you Christians, but without your Christ; just look at all of our good works." Like I said, though, I don't know exactly what he's thinking. I'm just putting this out here as a possible explanation. Wow. That is some seriously messed up commentary. HUMANS have always been helpful, kind, empathetic, service minded. HUMANS have performed that role in communities. I am shocked by your post. The arrogant and exclusive and judgmental and inaccurate thoughts behind it anger me. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Wow, he's crazy and doesn't even sort of understand the Bible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 . It is messed up, but it does seem his logic has gone: Helping the poor is a liberal thing and liberals are bad so helping the poor is bad. Seriously messed up. Normally I'd drop it and just feel bad for him, but he has a position of authority (albeit in a small and dying church) and an ordination in a denomination I'm not ready to leave just yet. Does your denomination have a leadership hierarchy above the pastor? Can you take your concern to someone above him? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Does your denomination have a leadership hierarchy above the pastor? Can you take your concern to someone above him?. Yes, I think I'm going to consult a former pastor about how to do this. Or if it would help. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Whaaat? Any church that turns away the hungery without even attempting to help (at least a little bit) is really wrong. I've also never heard that volunteerism = anti-Christ. That is just so wrong-headed. I'm glad you're leaving the church. And hopefully your dialog will come back to him someday and he'll repent. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 So, I'm in the middle of a Facebook conversation with the pastor of the church we have already decided to leave. I've known him and his family for a long time and due to family ties will likely be in the same room as him, his wife, and kids several times a year. His responses are totally baffling me despite the fact that we come from similar conservative theological backgrounds (though I'm less conservative now and I think he's taken a sharp turn somewhere) Have any of you heard anything like this? Is there an author/blogger who is promoting these views? We are leaving this church no matter what at this point, but I'm concerned enough that we may pass our concerns up the chain and I want to understand more before I take such action. As part of a conversation about refugees, he stated that the biblical command to love our neighbor only applies to those "who can walk to my door, knock on it, and ask for help." I asked him about the church's response to the homeless who had been using the church's hose to bathe. He replied that he believes that blocking access to water and doing nothing else (zero percent of church budget to ministry of any sort) was completely correct. When I asked about verses about being known by our fruit and faith without works is dead, he responded that "looking at the poor and asking for good works by those with faith is "a leftist and antichrist list of good works. Volunteerism is not a good work in God's kingdom." Have any of you heard something like this? It would not shock me if he has read something, taken one aspect of it, and run with it. I'm avoiding giving this too much emotional investment and praying about what to do, but I was just accused of having antichrist theology. Goodness. If volunteerism isn't good works then what is in his theology? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I just touched on this topic on the pacifism thread, so I'll copy what I wrote there: I'm reminded of an article that someone recently posted here on the forum. It described work being done for the homeless in Utah, work largely supported by the Mormon church. A journalist asked a housing authority employee why the Mormon church donated so much money to the project. The man replied, “I think they believe all that stuff in the New Testament about helping the poor. That's kind of crazy for a religion, I know, but I think they take it quite seriously." That was a very convicting thing for me as a non-Mormon to read. I believe Jesus when He told us to take care of the poor, and I believe Him when he said “love your enemies.†It's almost like your pastor hasn't read his Bible. :( My husband's been teaching a class on Galatians, and we just studied the section in which Paul describes his agreement with Peter, James, and John--Paul would minister to the Gentiles, and the others to the Jews. Paul wrote, "They only asked us to remember the poor—the very thing I also was eager to do." So, in discussing everything they would be doing as they spread the gospel, the *only* additional thing that they wanted to be absolutely sure of is that Christians were helping the poor. I was so happy when an elderly woman in our church later emailed my husband and asked, "What can we do as a church to care for the poor?" Hasn't your pastor read the parable of the sheep and the goats? It's a fearful thing for me when Jesus says, "Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me." I have fallen far, far short in this area. I do remember some years ago, a prominent conservative radio personality (maybe Rush?) was claiming that social justice was basically a code word for liberalism and conservatives shouldn't be involved in it. :confused: Maybe your pastor has heard something similar about volunteerism? Edited November 20, 2015 by MercyA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Wow. That is some seriously messed up commentary. HUMANS have always been helpful, kind, empathetic, service minded. HUMANS have performed that role in communities. I am shocked by your post. The arrogant and exclusive and judgmental and inaccurate thoughts behind it anger me. I think you totally misunderstood Fifiruth. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El... Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Whuuuuut? No. That's way off. Perhaps he was "losing" an argument and brought out the most dramatic condemnations he could think of, to make some point about.... Nope, I can't even justify it that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Given this is a Facebook convo, I'd leverage that venue to "tag" others that you'd like to join the conversation (mention them by name, and the name is in bold, and they get notified) by mentioning you'd like to know what they think. Also, I'd take screen shots. Before he thinks better of putting those words up in a public space. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I have heard of something that reminds me a little of this. It's kind of an objectivist philosophy grafted onto a type of fundamentalist CHristianity - which is totally bizarre in many ways. When I encountered it there seemed to be a lot of emphasis on it being morally wrong to give people things they don't earn, as if it represents a sort of lie. And it was very individualistic as well. They were really into the idea that the free market was somehow the arbiter of what was good and right. It seems really weird to me, but there actually seems to be a whole group of Christians in the US who are really into Ayn Rand, who would certainly have thought volunteerism is evil. Edited November 20, 2015 by Bluegoat 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I have heard of something that reminds me a little of this. It's kind of an objectivist philosophy grafted onto a type of fundamentalist CHristianity - which is totally bizarre in many ways. When I encountered it there seemed to be a lot of emphasis on it being morally wrong to give people things they don't earn, as if it represents a sort of lie. And it was very individualistic as well. They were really into the idea that the free market was somehow the arbiter of what was good and right. It seems really weird to me, but there actually seems to be a whole group of Christians in the US who are really into Ayn Rand, who would certainly have thought volunteerism is evil. Um... I know this is not your viewpoint, so I'm not disagreeing with you. But this is so messed up! Christianity is based on people being given something they did not and cannot earn! 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solascriptura Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 He is clearly wrong and this is a classic example of a Christian needing to read the Bible for authority. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Pp Given this is a Facebook convo, I'd leverage that venue to "tag" others that you'd like to join the conversation (mention them by name, and the name is in bold, and they get notified) by mentioning you'd like to know what they think. Also, I'd take screen shots. Before he thinks better of putting those words up in a public space. I already took the convo from my wall to private message because I believe him to be in sin and confronting him personally and privately was the right thing to do. I wish I could just wash my hands of this, but my husband and I are going to write a letter citing scripture and our doctrinal confession to send to him and possibly the elders (whom we plan to meet with anyway to make clear why we are leaving). We are going to consult our form of government and a former pastor about how to do this the proper way, taking it up to the next level as needed. Any BTDT conservative Presbyterians want to give me pointers on how to do this? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 How old is he? Is it possible he is going loopy? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 I have heard of something that reminds me a little of this. It's kind of an objectivist philosophy grafted onto a type of fundamentalist CHristianity - which is totally bizarre in many ways. When I encountered it there seemed to be a lot of emphasis on it being morally wrong to give people things they don't earn, as if it represents a sort of lie. And it was very individualistic as well. They were really into the idea that the free market was somehow the arbiter of what was good and right. It seems really weird to me, but there actually seems to be a whole group of Christians in the US who are really into Ayn Rand, who would certainly have thought volunteerism is evil. Actually, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I even have heard him mention Ayn Rand. And one of the reasons he gave for not helping the poor was that they are lazy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 How old is he? Is it possible he is going loopy?Mid forties. Sadly I don't think that is it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 We Christians have all experienced times when we've failed to be kind and loving, or other times when we've been influenced by someone's teaching that we later realized wasn't quite right. Just remember that when you disagree with him, extend your own kindness and grace to him. I don't know where he is getting this from, but it may be because of a growing push (it's in our high schools) to do what the church has always traditionally done in their communities in helping the poor, etc. Except now, it's promoted as as being a good, secular world citizen. It's kinds like,"We can be just as Christian as you Christians, but without your Christ; just look at all of our good works." Like I said, though, I don't know exactly what he's thinking. I'm just putting this out here as a possible explanation. Non-Christians don't help others just so they can say "neener, neener we are good too" to Christians. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I'm avoiding giving this too much emotional investment and praying about what to do, but I was just accused of having antichrist theology. Welcome to the dark side. It's not so scary once you find yourself here, is it? ;-) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Welcome to the dark side. It's not so scary once you find yourself here, is it? ;-) It's really funny because, due to the crowds I run with, I'm almost always either the most conservative or most liberal one in the group. I think Iknow where I would fall in a group with you. :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Actually, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I even have heard him mention Ayn Rand. And one of the reasons he gave for not helping the poor was that they are lazy. Keep in mind Ayn Rand would have a very low opinion of this man as well. She calls faith a curse, and belief in God to be the antithesis of reason (paraphrasing, but, she has many quotes along those lines). He is a true idiot. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Definitely go to the elders with this. I attended a Presbyterian Church growing up, and there is no way this should be allowed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 I don't think citing scripture or your doctrinal confession will do any good, with respect to him. He's clearly redefining words to mean what he wants them to mean to support his position, and he will do that with whatever scripture or confessional statement you cite. It may help in communicating with the elders if you decide to send the letter to them, if they haven't been completely pulled down his rabbit hole. The letter would help, I think, in going up above the local church level, showing exactly where we see a problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 This man should not be leading anyone. Not only is he entirely wrong about Christianity, but he fails Humanity 101, as well. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Keep in mind Ayn Rand would have a very low opinion of this man as well. She calls faith a curse, and belief in God to be the antithesis of reason (paraphrasing, but, she has many quotes along those lines). He is a true idiot. I have never been able to figure out the fascination that sort of Christian has with Ayn Rand. Usually they tend to say that she was wrong about some things and right about others, but they don't seem to notice that the same kind of selfish view of reality is behind her view of things like being kind and her views on economics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I think there are some valid Christian arguments to be made about the wisdom of letting in single young Sunni Muslim men who could be part of ISIS. I'm not sure there's much risk of that amongst those who've been in UN refugee camps for two years, but I can certainly see that it might not be wise, and if I were in Europe I would have some significant issues with open border policies given ISIS's threats to send fighters across Europe. Those who have been in refugee camps are refugees. Most of the young men walking across Europe are migrants. I do not think there are any valid biblical arguments against helping those ISIS have been targeting: Shia, Yazidis, and Christians. Children and the elderly should also be helped. I wouldn't waste my breath with this pastor though. He's added doctrines that aren't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) It's really funny because, due to the crowds I run with, I'm almost always either the most conservative or most liberal one in the group. I think Iknow where I would fall in a group with you. :) You're always welcome with me and mine. Besides, it's not so bad here in the Dark Side. We've got cookies. But seriously, this kind of theology is not surprising to me. I mean, it kind of is, in that it's not expected, but one can see that trends come and go in religion all the time, and not always beneficial, or even logical ones. Generally, trends that are picked up by many churches are the ones that ultimately change the face of the religion. It's why things change in the church over the centuries, things like the role of women in church or society, the role of minority races, etc. The trend that identifies volunteerism with enabling laziness isn't new, even if it is new to you. Some of us naysayers have been watching this from the side lines for quite a while. When we mention examples of it, the response from decent, upstanding theists is something like dismissal. After all, the logic goes, if one doesn't see any evidence in their community, we're just taking extreme examples and trying to make them look bad. Only, that's not actually true. We're seeing extreme examples and we're pointing them out because they're problematic in one way or another. And yes, weird. And sometimes, they catch on. This is one such example. Ayn Rand was the poster child of a popular group of conservatives during the last presidential election. Slowly but surely, these arguments have persuaded people to change their minds, and now you know someone who's been persuaded. I'll bet one can find support for this mindset going back through Fox News reports for years - not that volunteerism is bad, but the idea that *this* time, volunteerism is enabling laziness. As people learn to draw their own conclusions about when volunteerism is really enabling laziness in disguise, they see patterns in society. Your soon-to-be former pastor sees a pattern, and he wants to share this insight with his congregation. Can't you just see it from his point of view? [ETA: I mean incredulously, not as an appeal to please consider and try and respect it] Far all we know, he's thinking to himself, "Yanno, Jesus didn't enable the lazy, he invited people to repent. You can't repent for someone else, they have to do it themselves, and part of repentance is to recognize the sinfulness and futility of your ways, and then change them. In other words, part of being serious about coming to the lord is to pull yourselves up by whatever bootstraps you may have, and get thee to a church. Jesus also said not to waste your time and efforts after those who don't care. Throwing efforts of volunteerism after people who have no desire to repent suck up the time and resources of the few who really see the light. No throwing pearls before swine and all that." I don't think he's necessarily nutso. I think he's been persuaded to see a certain pattern in life, and once he sees it, it feels as real as any other pattern he's seen. And at the end of the day, this interpretation fits in with a particular reading of the bible. He's not beholden to you or anyone else to keep his conscience clean. If he feels he's got god's approval, he'll be strong in his convictions. Considering there have been many things over the years that have persuaded him, I'd bet all the change in my pocket he feels he's got god's approval, and he feels you have been duped by forces of evil (sin, satan, antichrist, whatever). Edited November 20, 2015 by albeto. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Well I think he's saying it isn't what the words "a good work in God's kingdom" are talking about. I also think there are people who politicize the idea of caring for others until, taken to its extreme, it is meaningless and even destructive. For example, the stuff about caring for our veterans before caring about Syrian refugees (or anyone else from overseas). There is nothing wrong with the concept of taking care of our veterans. If we suddenly found $$ to help people in need, where was it when American vets (and others here) needed it? That's a fair question. But when they go to the point of basically dehumanizing others based on their religion or nationality or race, now you're just hurting people. And a person who thinks it's OK to do that is not a nice person. And I wouldn't want their charity unless it was the only way I could stay alive. The above is an example from the conservative extremist side, but there are plenty of examples from the liberal side. Like killing cops in cold blood because "black lives matter." And the crickets chirp when black children are murdered by black criminals. Either list could go on all day. That said, it sounds like the pastor mentioned in the OP is confused and a poor communicator and probably needs to be relieved of his duties. Edited November 20, 2015 by SKL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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