Miss Peregrine Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Is the "gaslighter" aware of their lies/gaslighting to make you feel insane or do they believe what they are saying is true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Depends, and doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Human memory is notoriously fallible, even for sane people. I'm sure there are many people who engage in this behavior who have completely wiped their memory of reality. However, you can drive yourself crazy trying to pick apart the motivations of crazy people. It's rarely worth the time. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 The ones I have seen mostly believe what they are saying, at least in the moment. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Depends, and doesn't matter. Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 When I've seen it happen, the person always seemed to completely believe what they said. I suspect that you'd really have to be a borderline psychopath to try and do that to someone knowingly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinaPagnato Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Depends, and doesn't matter. :iagree: I think it matters for those trying to figure out what the heck is going on, but in terms of how to respond, no, it doesn't matter. Or at least it won't serve a purpose. I can't tell you how many times I've attempted to correct the record on something undeniable, and the narcissist truly spins the occurrence completely backwards. Up is down and black is white if that's what they've determined will best suit their purposes. I don't engage it anymore because after 40 years I've finally figured out it. doesn't. work. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 ^^Oh good point. I didn't mean "doesn't matter" as in the victim shouldn't think about it or anything re-victm-y like that. Whatever helps you see the pattern or get away from it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Is the "gaslighter" aware of their lies/gaslighting to make you feel insane or do they believe what they are saying is true? I think they believe that they are always right, and the world revolves around them, so lying does not come from their lips.... 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I think sometimes that they convince themselves that it is true, sometimes they actually think it is, and sometimes they think it's not true but saying it is justified by something else that happened. It's never, ever, a bad thing that they do in their own perspective. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I think it depends on how self-aware of how manipulative they are actually being. the two people ikirl - i doubt they were/are ever aware. eta: keeping in mind, these types say whatever is required to justify themselves. I agree, their self-awareness/lack thereof doesn't matter. you treat them the same. boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. my grandmother repeatedly blamed me for my sister's indiscretions, thereby justifying herself in the favoritism. as far as I could tell, she really believed her lies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I think sometimes that they convince themselves that it is true, sometimes they actually think it is, and sometimes they think it's not true but saying it is justified by something else that happened. It's never, ever, a bad thing that they do in their own perspective. This has been my experience. The person is so certain that their version is real that I begin to doubt myself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarlaB Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 In my situation it doesn't appear that the NP can distinguish truth from lies- in fact her common strategy is to rewrite history to support whatever she happens to feel. It's exhausting. Under extreme pressure or presentation of facts she *might* be able to begrudgingly acknowledge a slightly different truth but would never ever admit it or own any wrongdoing. I used to struggle with this- wondering if she, in the still and quiet of night, can ever acknowledge the truth to herself, but then burst out laughing because NP aren't really know for self reflection. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I think they believe that they are always right, and the world revolves around them, so lying does not come from their lips.... Or if it does, it is because humans lie sometimes and you just have to make your peace with that. :glare: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I don't have a good understanding of what this actually looks like. I don't think I have had a gaslighter in my life. I have encountered some manipulative people, but I got out of their lives after one too many roller coaster episodes. In such cases, I thought, "Wow, that chick is too unstable to hang with...defriend." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 In my experience, I truly believe the person kind of knew what they were doing, but didn't see it as wrong. Does that make sense? Like it was "good" for me, or something. They believe their lies, or even justify them as "righteous" because they see it as an end to a means. I look back now, and see how much I have grown as a person since I have completely cut myself off from them. So liberating. I no longer doubt myself, or think I am going crazy. I am my own person, and it is so liberating and wonderful. My advice for anyone dealing with this type of person. Run. far far away. and never look back. I am not heartless at all, and very kind to others, but it was the best earthly thing I ever did for myself and my family. One last thing....I remember this person, one time, laughing at me, because I told them I would never be good enough or do the right thing for them. At that time, I was totally enslaved. never again. This was a family member/person that was supposed to look out for me. They are the worst ones. specially when you grow up knowing no different. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 I don't have a good understanding of what this actually looks like. I don't think I have had a gaslighter in my life. I have encountered some manipulative people, but I got out of their lives after one too many roller coaster episodes. In such cases, I thought, "Wow, that chick is too unstable to hang with...defriend." This person will say something horrible and when told that it is hurtful will say that I am the one that said it to them. Or when caught in a lie will add detail to further qualify their words and will insist they meant that all along. I am pretty sure those are gaslighting but I am no expert. The first example makes me so rage-filled. It is total crazy-making. How on earth as you supposed to argue with that? I am feeling my blood pressure rise just typing about it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 In my situation it doesn't appear that the NP can distinguish truth from lies- in fact her common strategy is to rewrite history to support whatever she happens to feel. It's exhausting. Under extreme pressure or presentation of facts she *might* be able to begrudgingly acknowledge a slightly different truth but would never ever admit it or own any wrongdoing. I used to struggle with this- wondering if she, in the still and quiet of night, can ever acknowledge the truth to herself, but then burst out laughing because NP aren't really know for self reflection. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk presentation of facts can also make them even more angry. My grandmother did lots of rants about how she tried to stop my brother from marrying his first wife. (and if he'd just listened to her . . . .she was actually just like grandmother). what she did or did not say, I don't know (and didn't really care.) I immediately pointed out how she tried to stop me from marrying my dh . . . she just glared at me. one more mark against me. (plus, a week after we got married, she tried to convince me that he'd be sleeping with coworkers on an out of town trip, where everyone had their own hotel room. her reason was 'everyone does it".) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 One thing I've seen online is that the person who is basically doing the gaslighting tries to convince people they're the one being gaslit. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I think it can be either. I knew one person who was a cold-blooded liar, often it seemed for no real purpose. I know one person who I think justifies her lies because she sees herself as persecuted. The lies are understood as a way of expressing what she perceives as real injustices. ETA: What complicates this is that some things that really are unjust have happened to her. I knew one person, more sane than the rest, who seemed to have two different reasons. On the one hand he saw himself as someone who was more advanced than many others, and so he would fudge the truth in many cases because they would not understand the real situation. (Kind of like a parent who tells a young child he's never done drugs.) And on the other hand I think he had a significant issue with repression and that seemed to cause him to lose sight of actual events, possibly without even being fully aware of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 The one I'm thinking of, I think they really have rewritten it in their minds. They also are ruled by their emotions, so if it feels true in the then & now (like, if they believe that you deliberately slighted them) then it is true and any response is totally justified, because FEELINGS. Apparently. And I was so used to it that I'd forget facts and just go along with it. Dh has many times pointed out 'hang on, didn't you do x?' Oh yeah... She conveniently omits that part. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Depends, and doesn't matter. Love this!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I see 'Gaslighting' as a deliberate attempt to deceive. So, it is a conscious, planned action. I see the 're-writing' of history as more likely of someone who has NPD or something similar. They may be a party in the re-writing but it comes from a less sinister and more organic place. My mother is a great one for re-writing the past but I don't think she is 'lying'. I think she believes her truth. I think the end result is similar but the motivation is different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Gaslighting is intended to make the victim doubt their own sanity and depend upon the abuser to filter their reality. The lies begin very believably. It's like that feeling when you first take off roller skates and feel like you are still moving. You might logically know, but those feelings are so strong they distort the truth. Once your inner ear settles and the feelings wear off, it's plain as day but the gaslighter strives to either get you back on skates ...or pretending you are. Violence is a key tool at that point. Depending upon who this person is in your life, distancing yourself may or may not be an option. Our laws don't protect people (certainly not innocent children) from verbal and emotional abuse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagine.more Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 This person will say something horrible and when told that it is hurtful will say that I am the one that said it to them. Or when caught in a lie will add detail to further qualify their words and will insist they meant that all along. I am pretty sure those are gaslighting but I am no expert. The first example makes me so rage-filled. It is total crazy-making. How on earth as you supposed to argue with that? I am feeling my blood pressure rise just typing about it. Yes, or basically just denying stuff over and over until you start to wonder if maybe you are remembering things wrong. Ie. my mom once tried to choke my stepsister in full view of my father and sister. My father pulled her off. She said stuff like, "That never happened! How could you think I would do that?" when I referred to it later. When confronted about it she just kept insisting that it never happened and finally went to a condescending, "well, if did that, I'm sorry if it hurt your feelings that you think I did that." :banghead: Witnesses don't matter, irrefutable facts don't matter, her main goal is to convince me it didn't happen so I will stop mentioning it because it portrays her in an unflattering light. She used to do this so often when I was a child that I thought I was crazy. My sister thought the same. Then as older teens we talked and verified what memories we could as real and sifted out truth from her fiction. Gaslighting would also be insisting "no, your favorite color isn't yellow, it was always green" and just insisting on that over and over so consistently that the person starts to wonder if maybe one time they must have said it was green and eventually starts to wonder if maybe at one point their favorite color really was green. Or if you're old enough/aware enough to see what they're doing you know they're gas lighting you but like Miss Peregrine says it's impossible to argue with and super infuriating. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I see 'Gaslighting' as a deliberate attempt to deceive. So, it is a conscious, planned action. I see the 're-writing' of history as more likely of someone who has NPD or something similar. They may be a party in the re-writing but it comes from a less sinister and more organic place. My mother is a great one for re-writing the past but I don't think she is 'lying'. I think she believes her truth. I think the end result is similar but the motivation is different. I'm not sure I understand your distinction because people with NPD definitely deliberately attempt to deceive and there is often much planning involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 This person will say something horrible and when told that it is hurtful will say that I am the one that said it to them. Or when caught in a lie will add detail to further qualify their words and will insist they meant that all along. I am pretty sure those are gaslighting but I am no expert. The first example makes me so rage-filled. It is total crazy-making. How on earth as you supposed to argue with that? I am feeling my blood pressure rise just typing about it. I know a person who did things like this, but I just call that projection. So, this person says, "when we were on that weekend trip, you acted so angry." No. she was acting angry. I was trying to figure out what she was so mad about and thought she must have had a fuss with her DH beforehand. So I call that projection - when you project your state of mind or behaviour onto another and say - or actually believe - that they are doing/saying/acting the way you actually are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I believe a therapist did this to me. Did she know what she was doing? Yes, I believe she did. She tried to manipulate me to do what she wanted me to do. I doubt she'd admit it as such. She would probably explain it as wanting to do what it took to help me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarlaB Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 presentation of facts can also make them even more angry. My grandmother did lots of rants about how she tried to stop my brother from marrying his first wife. (and if he'd just listened to her . . . .she was actually just like grandmother). what she did or did not say, I don't know (and didn't really care.) I immediately pointed out how she tried to stop me from marrying my dh . . . she just glared at me. one more mark against me. (plus, a week after we got married, she tried to convince me that he'd be sleeping with coworkers on an out of town trip, where everyone had their own hotel room. her reason was 'everyone does it".) Absolutely! Presenting facts is interpreted as criticizing and the NP cannot under any circumstances handle criticism.... All roads lead to NP being unable to face inner demons of profound insecurity & woundedness, so everything must be deflected outwardly onto others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Gaslighting is an attempt to make the other person question their own perceptions/sanity. An NPD person is thinking about themselves, their own perception, and trying to control other people's perception of them, not other people's perception of themselves. The effect can be similar, but the cause is different. When the NPD cares about my perception of them, which is dependent on my perception of myself, I think the line is too fine to differentiate. This seems to be the case most often when the NPD person in your life is family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I'm not sure I understand your distinction because people with NPD definitely deliberately attempt to deceive and there is often much planning involved. Not an attempt at a clinical definition, by any means, but what I think when I hear Gaslighting is an absolute, conscious decision to attempt to fool someone into mis-believing reality. The manipulator is very aware of the real truth. Very much like the movie, I see it as an evil manipulation deliberately trying to make someone feel unstable. Whereas, when I think if someone with NPD, I think of a person like my mother who is absolutely convinced of her own reality. She isn't trying to force a fake reality on me. She really believes her version of the events. She has distorted the truth in her mind in such a way, and for such a long time that she is firmly convinced that her way IS the true way. Her view IS the true view. Her memory IS the true memory. Of course, that is only based on my observations with my own mother. So, it is limited at best. But I tend to think that Gaslighting, as I define the term, is a much more focused on trying to mess with the mind of one particular person while someone with NPD just messes with almost everyone. I don't know if that clarified any. But, that is what I was thinking. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 This person will say something horrible and when told that it is hurtful will say that I am the one that said it to them. Or when caught in a lie will add detail to further qualify their words and will insist they meant that all along. I am pretty sure those are gaslighting but I am no expert. The first example makes me so rage-filled. It is total crazy-making. How on earth as you supposed to argue with that? I am feeling my blood pressure rise just typing about it. You shouldn't argue with it. Arguing feeds their ego. It draws you in to their lair. It gives them more power. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 You shouldn't argue with it. Arguing feeds their ego. It draws you in to their lair. It gives them more power. I totally agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdrinca Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I suspect it depends on the level of narcissism that accompanies the gaslighting. Is there a true NP at work, or just a jerk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TianXiaXueXiao Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I know a person who did things like this, but I just call that projection. So, this person says, "when we were on that weekend trip, you acted so angry." No. she was acting angry. I was trying to figure out what she was so mad about and thought she must have had a fuss with her DH beforehand. So I call that projection - when you project your state of mind or behaviour onto another and say - or actually believe - that they are doing/saying/acting the way you actually are. Sometimes gaslighters are projecting but often they are simply denying reality/rewriting history. They will insist that you are crazy when you bring up something hurtful or damaging that they have done. They will feign concern for you by asking you frequently if you are OK or if you are aware of how crazy something you said sounds: "I've never known you to say such vicious things about others, especially about me! What's going on here? Are you feeling jealous or concerned that you aren't getting enough of my attention? I'm really worried about you." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Depends, and doesn't matter. Yeah really. Either way it's a sucky behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 the number of times I heard - you don't mean that; you don't think that; you don't want that; the constant undermining of who you are as a person (starting in very early childhood). as far back as I can remember. frankly - the reason the person does it is irrelvant. combined with how many things are "remembered" in a way that goes against your own memory - you do start to think you are crazy. realizing that nothing they say is trustworthy is the first step towards saving your own sanity. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegs Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I've seen a really insecure friend freak out about perceived slights and similar, then address this with whomever she believes has been 'angry/annoyed with her', 'distant', 'uncaring', etc.; and then when the alleged offender tries to reassure her, she's already so convinced that they've done her wrong, that she perceives the reassurances to be the lies of a gaslighting manipulator. Honestly, it's exhausting! She genuinely experiences these situations as a victim of emotional manipulation and gaslighting, and the loved ones she doesn't-quite-accuse genuinely experience this as just her being a really anxious, insecure person, in need of some very clear boundaries. So in answer to the OP, IMO some 'gaslighters' are truly unaware that the other party believes the 'gaslighter' is trying to make her feel crazy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) nm Edited December 2, 2015 by ^ 022 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I've seen a really insecure friend freak out about perceived slights and similar, then address this with whomever she believes has been 'angry/annoyed with her', 'distant', 'uncaring', etc.; and then when the alleged offender tries to reassure her, she's already so convinced that they've done her wrong, that she perceives the reassurances to be the lies of a gaslighting manipulator. Honestly, it's exhausting! She genuinely experiences these situations as a victim of emotional manipulation and gaslighting, and the loved ones she doesn't-quite-accuse genuinely experience this as just her being a really anxious, insecure person, in need of some very clear boundaries. So in answer to the OP, IMO some 'gaslighters' are truly unaware that the other party believes the 'gaslighter' is trying to make her feel crazy. What you described is not "gaslighting." Gaslighting is an attempt by a person with abusive patterns of behavior and likely narcissistic traits that is done to control the behavior of another person. The world is not full of gas-lighters. They are rare (though they can run in families as the original narcissist damages children, etc.). So if the pattern of behavior of gaslighting is being perceived by a person as occurring with multiple people, it's likely that, as you imply, it's she who has the issue. She's the one with the pattern. However, a hallmark of a true gaslighter is that he or she will say the same thing: "It"s not me; it's you." : "I was just kidding," or "You are too sensitive" or "Have you taken your meds?" Because of that pattern, I think it's important to keep the label of gaslighting for the situation it's meant to describe: One person who uses verbal manipulation to keep his or her targets in check. It is not a victim who sees gaslighting behind every perceived slight. A gaslighter will NOT try to assure the victim, only to toy with the victim. The question is , "Are they conscious they are doing this?" isn't because someone is misperceiving intent; it's because if they are narcissistic, they will see themselves as "all good" so it's hard to tell if they know they are lying or if service to self is so overwhelming that lies don't even register on their radar. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I believe my mother 100% knew what she was doing. She got off on the power. I also believe my ex knew what he was doing. I think his motives were different, but both knew what they were doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Reported 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Yes. They know exactly what they're doing. I'm referring specifically to my mother and ex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdel Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) nm Edited December 23, 2015 by Sdel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I've seen the movie that gaslighting was named after (though I don't recall if I saw the 1940 or 1944 movie - probably the 1944 one). It was definitely deliberate and the abuser fully knew what he was doing. Which doesn't mean people can't drive you crazy unintentionally... just that etymologically, as an abuse tactic, it was definitely on purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 just that etymologically, as an abuse tactic, it was definitely on purpose. That's actually the etymological fallacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 This person will say something horrible and when told that it is hurtful will say that I am the one that said it to them. Or when caught in a lie will add detail to further qualify their words and will insist they meant that all along. I am pretty sure those are gaslighting but I am no expert. The first example makes me so rage-filled. It is total crazy-making. How on earth as you supposed to argue with that? I am feeling my blood pressure rise just typing about it. They are most likely aiming to rile you. Don't do them the favor. :) Try to remain calm even if you find it is difficult and you want to punch something. Perhaps say something like: "You and I both know the truth on this topic," with extreme calm. Practice this if necessary. If things go out of control from there, ask him to leave. Gaslighting is a form of manipulating and is often exercised when the gaslighter thinks he has a vulnerable victim who will be derailed by it and be so confused that it somehow benefits the gaslighter. Is it time to cut off personal contact and just communicate by text or email if possible or through lawyers? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 They are most likely aiming to rile you. Don't do them the favor. :) Try to remain calm even if you find it is difficult and you want to punch something. Perhaps say something like: "You and I both know the truth on this topic," with extreme calm. Practice this if necessary. If things go out of control from there, ask him to leave. Gaslighting is a form of manipulating and is often exercised when the gaslighter thinks he has a vulnerable victim who will be derailed by it and be so confused that it somehow benefits the gaslighter. Is it time to cut off personal contact and just communicate by text or email if possible or through lawyers? laughter has it's place. treating it as though it's just the funniest thing ever . . . . I've finally gotten to where my 2sil isn't able to get under my skin anymore. (I had an ephiphany about her - that she is completely out of control within herself - but she wants people to think she's "the martyr". I've noticed her dd's are working very hard to be different from her.) anyway - I was going to lunch with 1sil, and 2sil ended up derailing those plans, so all three of us ended up going. (it was 2sils' bd.) she loves Mexican food, and choose a Mexican place and flat out stated to 1sil she knew I wouldn't like it because "Kristen hates Mexican food". then she had the chutzpah to repeat it to my face. (smiling and laughing like she's so charming. not. but many people do not see "it".). I honestly wanted to just laugh and say "wow.". I'm sure I had a flabbergasted expression. talk about desperation on her part. I thought she was truly pathetic. (it did not bother me. she really is that pathetic.). it bugs her I don't find her charming - and she doesn't understand why. my brother did similar once before too - and I did just burst out laughing. he NEVER tried that on me again. it made him seem stupid. (which he was.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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