I need help defending my homeschooling style

[mom2agang]

I have a friend who is a newer homeschooler (3yrs) and is a "School at Home" type. She sets time limit for class (45m) does grades and test (pop quizes, weekly test etc). Me, one the other hand is a lot more relaxed. We school wherever and whenever. I don't give grades or test,but I do check to make sure they are learning. She's always saying Im doing my kids an injustice and not getting them ready for college. She'll even tell the kids that. Any advice on how to handle this? Is there good articles on not grading and testing? I would like to defend my homeschool style with more then,"These are my kids and leave our hs alone!"

[kitten18]

I don't have any advice but wow, she seriously has some nerve. I would not be friends with someone who was that critical.

[Harriet Vane]

She has crossed some important boundaries. This is not something to be "nice" about (though neither do you need to be rude). Tell her in no uncertain terms to NEVER criticize your parenting or education to your children, EVER.

 

Unless you are actually criminally abusive of your kids, there is NO reason why she needs to criticize you either to your face or to your children. None.

 

Something like this would cause me to re-evaluate the entire friendship. This isn't just a little disagreement. It's unbelievably inappropriate.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I doubt that statistics of any kind would make a difference.  I would tell her you are homeschooling specifically so that YOU can make decisions about what is best for your OWN children at every age and stage, and that what is best is more than a simple grade on a paper.  For you it's about raising a whole child and you do this better in a more relaxed atmosphere.  If she persists, I would tell her clearly that it's off-limits to criticize, and CERTAINLY not in front of or directly to the kids (!!!).  There must be a long history of friendship or something, 'cuz I can't imagine tolerating that BS under any other circumstances!!! 

[emzhengjiu]

I would just keep repeating that we're doing what is right for our family.  Smile, then say every family's different don't you agree.  Don't continue the conversation.  Change the topic.  What a shame though.  I love talking about different homeschooling styles with other moms.

[Hikin' Mama]

I've been doing this homeschooling thing a long time and I'm a bit tired and grouchy this morning. But...

 

I would feel no need to defend my homeschooling style to anyone. I would be very blunt about her not voicing her opinions to my kids and if she continued to voice them to me I would choose not to spend time with her. I have many friends with whom I don't agree on things, but we can keep our disagreements to ourselves and focus on the things we do have in common or the fact that we just like to be around each other. If she were my friend and she couldn't do that, then I'm afraid it wouldn't be a friendship worth maintaining.

[momacacia]

I would become so very busy dong school with my kids that I wouldnt have time to be with said friend. If you kwim. ;)

[OneStepAtATime]

The fact that she openly criticized your choice is a red flag that this may not be a very healthy friendship, but the fact that she said something to your kids is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.   Seriously, that is so far over the line!  There are a lot of women on this board that I agree with and there are a lot of women on this board that I disagree with and just bantering back and forth on a board like this is fine (as long as you remain respectful) but I would NEVER EVER  tell someone else's child anything like that.  WOW!  

 

Is she the only game in town?  Can you find other people to hang out with?  Is she part of a larger group and you don't want to cause an issue with the group?  In fact, are there any other parents homeschooling in your fashion that could back you up and provide some support?  Unbelievable.  So so sorry you are facing that.  :grouphug:

[Soror]

I'd be tempted to start making copious amounts of comments about how if I wanted my kids to be schooled like that I would have put them in public school because there is no difference.

[geodob]

She might need reassuring, where your approach has her questioning her own approach?

So that if she can get you to adopt her approach?  Then it would help confirm to her, that she is using the best approach.

 

So you could try reassuring her, that her approach is best for her and her children.

 

[8filltheheart]

Tell her to read this forum.  :)   There are plenty of us with homeschool success stories that complete reject traditional school methodologies.   As a matter of fact, for my homeschooling profile that I wrote for my ds's college applications, I dwelt on the fact that our homeschool does not resemble traditional schooling at all.   It must have worked b/c he was accepted at some competitive schools like GA Tech.

 

http://www.news.gatech.edu/2014/01/06/5000-students-offered-early-action-admission-tech

On average, the students admitted to Tech have a 4.0 GPA, an SAT score of 1485 out of a possible 1,600 and will have taken 9.4 AP/IB/Dual enrollment courses by high school graduation.

According to Tech:

Over the weekend, more than 5,000 students around the world earned acceptance to Georgia Tech as part of the Early Action admission pool for the 2014 freshman class.

These high schoolers, as in previous years, are at the top of their classes. Georgia Tech's average admitted student has a 4.0 GPA and an SAT score of 1485/2193 and will have taken nine college-level courses prior to high school graduation

 

.

 

 

[73349]

Has she been to college herself? Mine was not a weekly quizzes kind of place. In fact, many kids who go to PS for high school have trouble adjusting to the self-paced, seldom-graded courses after all the spoon-feeding and immediate feedback. Since she has no qualms about asking you these questions, I think you should point that out to her so that she can reflect on her own assessment practices.

[OneStepAtATime]

She might need reassuring, where your approach has her questioning her own approach?

So that if she can get you to adopt her approach?  Then it would help confirm to her, that she is using the best approach.

 

So you could try reassuring her, that her approach is best for her and her children.

Well, this would be a more polite way to go... maybe she really would be willing to listen if you approached it this way.

 

And I agree with 8FilTheHeart 100%, have her read this Forum.  She might really find it eye opening and not see herself as the be all, end all of homeschooling knowledge.

[texasmama]

As others have pointed out, this is a boundary issue, not a homeschooling issue.

 

I have a homeschool friend, and she does school at home, complete with hours from 8-3.  The kids stay in the schoolroom doing extra work until 3 if they finish early.

 

However, she has never said anything negative about my style or even inquired overly much into it.  She has boundaries, which makes her a good friend.  I don't say anything negative about her homeschooling style.  I'm sure we will both rear great kids who have plenty of knowledge and education.  There is not just one formula to reaching the goal of going to college for homeschooled kids. 

 

I wouldn't even try to address this.  I would write this off as wackadoodle over control.  This is not a friend I would want to have.  I once encountered a homeschool mom who, in the first couple of meetings, suggested that we needed to get together to homeschool.   Well, I didn't care for her, and her kids had some issues which would preclude this, as well.  It was the opposite type of boundary crossing, but I dealt with it in the moment (taken by surprise, as I was during a church meeting) by waxing eloquent about classical homeschooling and about my curriculum until everyone's eyes glazed over and hopefully, she realized that homeschooling with me was not something she wanted to pursue further, IFKWIM.  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

Tell her to read this forum.  :)   There are plenty of us with homeschool success stories that complete reject traditional school methodologies.   As a matter of fact, for my homeschooling profile that I wrote for my ds's college applications, I dwelt on the fact that our homeschool does not resemble traditional schooling at all.   It must have worked b/c he was accepted at some competitive schools like GA Tech.

 

http://www.news.gatech.edu/2014/01/06/5000-students-offered-early-action-admission-tech

.

Emphasizing this by quoting since I can't like it (maxed out).  Definitely this.

[Pen]

Not all top college preparatory bricks and mortar schools give grades etc. either. 

 

I think I'd tell her directly that you think she is wrong and behaving inappropriately.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I have a friend who is a newer homeschooler (3yrs) and is a "School at Home" type. She sets time limit for class (45m) does grades and test (pop quizes, weekly test etc). Me, one the other hand is a lot more relaxed. We school wherever and whenever. I don't give grades or test,but I do check to make sure they are learning. She's always saying Im doing my kids an injustice and not getting them ready for college. She'll even tell the kids that. Any advice on how to handle this? Is there good articles on not grading and testing? I would like to defend my homeschool style with more then,"These are my kids and leave our hs alone!"

Seriously, I would handle it by asking her point blank how much she would appreciate me disparaging her homeschooling choices in front of her kids. If I liked her enough to keep her around, I would say something generic about different strokes for different folks. Seriously though? How old are your kids? Unless you had multiple multiples, you outrank her in experience in the trenches. The nerve!

 

Has she been to college herself? Mine was not a weekly quizzes kind of place. In fact, many kids who go to PS for high school have trouble adjusting to the self-paced, seldom-graded courses after all the spoon-feeding and immediate feedback. Since she has no qualms about asking you these questions, I think you should point that out to her so that she can reflect on her own assessment practices.

This was my experience too. In fact, I was just telling DH the other day that I feel like it would actually be easier for me to prepare my kids for college than for junior high or high school. The expectations, hand-holding, and general baby-sitting are just like night and day.

[Above The Rowan]

I'd be tempted to start making copious amounts of comments about how if I wanted my kids to be schooled like that I would have put them in public school because there is no difference.

 

THIS. 

I was scrolling through responses before I posted this one myself. I saw you did it first so I just yelled YES!!! At my screen and hit the quote button. 

 

I would make not only the point soror stated, but I'd also say things to the effect that "I don't feel the need to test as I work with my child every day and know precisely where his level is, I don't need to utilize group teaching methods to teach a single child (or two or five, wahtever the case may be)."

 

This kind of thing would make me question my friendship with the person. However, if otherwise you have lots in common, or a lot of activities in common, I'd just not engage and let her think what she wants. Usually those that attack the strongest do so because they are insecure of their OWN choices. Their judgment says a lot more about them than it does about me, so I try to just disengage from people like that. 

 

I have friends who school RADICALLY different than I do. We just choose to not discuss the details of our homeschool days lol. But we're great friends otherwise so it's worth the eggshell-walking. 

[Soror]

LOL, I was feeling smarmy when I wrote that comment. I'm trying to think about what I'd say if this was my good friend but it is hard because I cannot imagine it, especially telling my children. I think I would keep my confidence and let her know our schooling is working for our family and there was no discussion. I was just talking to someone the other day who was talking about doing tests and quizzes, I cannot wrap my brain around that to be honest. I'm right there teaching them, I know what they know. They are learning, making progress, adequately challenged and we all enjoy school (most of the time :) ), so I'm not really worried about what others do. I would wonder if she was insecure as well. Is she happy with what she is doing? Do you complain or leave openings for these comments or is she just that brazen?

[Ellie]

I have a friend who is a newer homeschooler (3yrs) and is a "School at Home" type. She sets time limit for class (45m) does grades and test (pop quizes, weekly test etc). Me, one the other hand is a lot more relaxed. We school wherever and whenever. I don't give grades or test,but I do check to make sure they are learning. She's always saying Im doing my kids an injustice and not getting them ready for college. She'll even tell the kids that. Any advice on how to handle this? Is there good articles on not grading and testing? I would like to defend my homeschool style with more then,"These are my kids and leave our hs alone!"

 

I had a friend at church who homeschooled like that. Her kids had to be at their school table at 7 a.m., whether they were dressed or not, whether they had eaten breakfast or not. She put them in school when they were 7 and 9yo. Another friend from church began homeschooling a few years later. She told me that before her dc were born, she was NOT interested in homeschooling because of the other woman's Nazi homeschool style, but she changed her mind after she met me. :D 

 

I think you're going to have to look your friend in the eyeball and tell her to knock it off if she wants to continue the friendship. You don't need to defend yourself or your methods. Those articles and whatnot are available to her if she wanted to know. She doesn't. I wouldn't spend a nanosecond trying to convince her that your method works for you.

[albeto.]

Believe it or not, I avoid conflict like the plague offline. If my friend did this (when my friend did this), I simply smiled and looked her straight in the eye while she talked. No defending, no polite requests. These fall on deaf ears. If she's clever she'll realize she's being a nag and stop. If she's considerate she'll realize she's being a nag and stop. If she figures out you'll never respond, she'll realize she's being a nag and stop. You will have said nothing to hurt her feelings, she'll figure this out all on her little onesies, and you can move on. If she continues, then you treat her like any other friend who is a nag, however you do that. Unless you don't care to spend your time with nags, in which case your days may become a bit brighter and more positive. 

[mom2agang]

Thanks. We've been friends for years. She really is a good friend. This is annoying me. You are right. I don't need to defend my way of homeschooling. I need to let her know she has crossed the line.

[8filltheheart]

LOL, I was feeling smarmy when I wrote that comment. I'm trying to think about what I'd say if this was my good friend but it is hard because I cannot imagine it, especially telling my children.

This happened to me IRL but in the opposite direction. There were 2families in particular that the adults kept telling our oldest ds that we expected too much from him and that we didn't understand appropriate high school level work.

 

I simply refused to engage in discussing homeschooling with them and told our ds he needed to accept the fact that we believed they were wrong and these were the goals he had set for himself by wanting to be a chemical engineer.

 

It gives me no satisfaction that his friends have not been successful in achieving their goals. But, my ds is fully aware of why he has achieved his.

[Haiku]

I have a friend who is a newer homeschooler 

 

Are you sure she's your friend? Were it me I would say, "Look, 'friend,' I know that we do things differently than you do, and our way works for us. If you want to continue being friends, then you need to stop saying anything about it. I don't need or want your input on our homeschool."

 

If that's too wordy, try "Mind your own business."

[kbutton]

I know some perfectly nice people IRL that would be brazen enough to do something like this--they tend to be take charge folks that get results from taking charge in other arenas of life. They apply this strategy to friendships until someone puts up boundaries. I would tell her that the topic is off-limits unless she is asking sincere questions and to stop saying things like that to your kids. She would likely not tolerate you saying things to her own kids like "your mom is training you to just do the next thing and never think for yourself" (just an illustration, I don't think that about "school-at-home" moms!). If that doesn't work, and you want to continue being friends, I think you might have to let her know there is a difference between outspoken and pushy, and illustrate by giving her examples of pushy statements that parallel hers and come from your POV. ;-)

[Ellie]

Thanks. We've been friends for years. She really is a good friend. This is annoying me. You are right. I don't need to defend my way of homeschooling. I need to let her know she has crossed the line.

 

Do it today. :-)

[Carol in Cal.]

I agree with the others about the boundary issue being the important one.

However, it's pretty common for newbies to be very insecure and not really know what they are doing, so they mimic the school system until they figure out how to teach.

Something to keep in mind is that the gold standard, the fallback for the school system in fact, is private tutoring.  IOW, when the school system methods don't work, people pay big bucks for a private tutor who, basically, will homeschool the child by teaching at his exact level, one to one.  And that is what you are doing.  Obviously superior.  Someday she might grow into that as well.  :)

 

[Ellie]

 

However, it's pretty common for newbies to be very insecure and not really know what they are doing, so they mimic the school system until they figure out how to teach.

 

 

Her friend has been homeschooling for three years. She should be over the newbiness enough to quit haranguing her about her methods, KWIM? :-)

[Elisabet1]

Your friend is rude. And if any of my "friends" were to try to circumvent me and tell my children that I am doing something wrong, then I would cut them off as a friend.

 

Stop trying to defend yourself and start protecting yourself. That friendship ship has sailed. Let it go. Please move on from it. In a few years, she will either give up home schooling or change her ways. (no one ever lasts as a home schooler how she is doing it). Maybe she will come crawling back then. But politely but firmly let the friendship go. She might come back around when she changes and realizes she was out of line to talk to your kids like that.

[My3girls]

Wow, I would have to tell her she crossed the line when she spoke to my kids about it. As for the rest of it, I agree with the person who said to tell her that's the beauty of homeschooling that you get to choose what's best for YOUR kids.

 

I have the opposite problem mostly. A friend and I started homeschooling at the same time so we did our research together, went to the expo together, talked about it for months, and ended up on opposite ends of the spectrum. Go figure! When her original curriculum (Switch On Schoolhouse) didn't pan out, she asked to look at mine. She pretty much said there was too much reading in just about every choice I made including math. Lol. I just shrugged. She's also the one who says her oldest daughter is reading too fast and she cannot keep her in books. I told her how great that was, but she told her daughter to slow down! I sent her the 1000 great books link and told her to take the poor kid to the library and let her check out 6 or 7 at time. Was that wrong of me? She jokingly threatens her kids to send them to my house when they complain. Luckily, my kids take it as a compliment.

[SereneHome]

What is that saying - sometimes the best defense is a great offense.  I wouldn't even let her open her mouth again, and instead would start telling her what a terrible waste of time for her to do "school at home" and how silly it is and how she might as well just send her kids to regular school, etc etc etc.

 

And I know you are saying she is a great friend and she might be (we all have our faults), but if someone was rude to me and I did try the "nice" approach first, I would have no problem turning  the tables at some point.

 

But I've been known for my bluntness and not taking a lot of crap from people.  Then again, may be that's why I don't have a lot of friends.

[kiana]

I don't see what's wrong with "These are my kids and it's not your business."

 

But FTR, I never had grades or tests while being homeschooled (except in math, at the high school level only) and I managed to transition to university just fine. The only thing that I wish my parents had done differently is some experience writing literary analysis papers in high school.

[VeteranMom]

Do you think insecurity might be behnind her behavior?  I'd probably try to find a tactful way to tell her that you don't want/need her advice or input. 

[Garga]

Didn't we have a thread a little bit ago about homeschoolers who do a poor job and their kids are barely educated?  And didn't a few people say that it would be nice if homeschoolers would point out to each other if they think they're failing their children rather than having our homeschools regulated by the government? 

I guess she read that thread and decided that she needs to regulate you rather than the government regulate you.  Maybe she was reading that website where former homeschool students wrote about their abysmal educations.  

 

I'm not saying you need regulating but it sounds like she truly thinks something's wrong with your homeschool.  Just because she thinks that doesn't mean you have to defend your homeschool to her if you don't want to.  You can just tell her you don't want to talk about it.

 

Or, since you are good friends and I assume like each other and want to understand each other better, you could have a lovely couple of hours long conversation about your different philosophies and see if you can both see the other person's point of view.  That might lead to an understanding or it might lead to an even greater standoff.  If it's a greater standoff then you can decide it's not a good topic of conversation for the two of you and refuse to talk about it ever again.

 

ETA:  I would be very angry about her talking to my kids about it.  I can see if she's concerned and you guys could talk together as friends and get this sorted out, but her talking to your kids is something that needs to stop.

 

[Walking-Iris]

If it were just a matter of telling me what I was doing wrong and I valued the friendship, I may just opt for a "pass the bean dip" moment. But telling someone's children that what their parents are doing is wrong is not cool. Just ask my brother-in-law. We've had our moments.

 

If this is a friendship you value and will miss deeply if it ended, then you need to find a calm way to address the issue. It may be best if you kept your friendship on neutral grounds. I have IRL homeschooling friends that I could talk homeschooling with all day. I know other IRL homeschoolers that I would try really hard to never talk about homeschooling with if I could help it. 

 

It may be best to clear the air. And then continue the friendship on grownup terms, and leave issues of parenting and schooling out of it. Talk about other things.

 

It's never a good idea to try to convince someone that their way of schooling is right or wrong, or your way is okay. It's never really a good idea to post links or send articles. There's something a bit passive aggressive about it even if your intentions are good.

 

If it gets to be a bigger issue and it's not worth the drama....simply fade out the friendship into more of an acquaintance scenario. There's no need to end something with drama. 

 

 

[Tracy]

There is no way any of my homeschooling friends would say anything like this to me.  We all have different styles, and we all butt out of each other's homeschooling decisions unless someone is seeking advice.  If she is a good friend, then you need to have a heart-to-heart with her.  If not, then I would tell her that I disagree with her and that it is an inappropriate topic of further discussion.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm big on boundaries.  My good friends, however, know that I want them to let me know if I might have some blind spots in my life.  So I listen with an open mind.  If my kids were in high school, (as one is) then schooling "whenever and whatever" would not be giving him what he needed to go to college if he were to choose to do so at some point.  So I would want a friend to point that out.  (I have no idea how old your kids are and what you mean by that phrase so this isn't directed at you specifically but is an example of how my friendships work.  It is also a reflection of many threads on this board that have pointed out that some homeschooling parents are relaxed to the point of educational neglect.  Again - I don't know  you so please don't think I'm directing it at you but more as a hypothetical.)   That said, once they pointed something out and I considered it, I would consider them as overstepping boundaries to continue to mention it.  And I would certainly consider it overstepping if they mentioned it to my kids.  

[CarolinaHomeschooler]

I have a friend who is a newer homeschooler (3yrs) and is a "School at Home" type. She sets time limit for class (45m) does grades and test (pop quizes, weekly test etc). Me, one the other hand is a lot more relaxed. We school wherever and whenever. I don't give grades or test,but I do check to make sure they are learning. She's always saying Im doing my kids an injustice and not getting them ready for college. She'll even tell the kids that. Any advice on how to handle this? Is there good articles on not grading and testing? I would like to defend my homeschool style with more then,"These are my kids and leave our hs alone!"

 

You don't have to defend anything to her. It's her problem, not yours. Make her do the work. I have a couple sections in my FAQs that may help you. One is here:

 

http://www.carolinahomeschooler.com/afaq5.html  (scroll to the last section)

 

and the other is here:

 

http://www.carolinahomeschooler.com/afaq6.html  (the first section, but adapt it to your situation and put the burden of proof on your friend instead of you feeling you have to defend).

 

And finally, others have probably mentioned this already, but your friend is seriously overstepping her bounds when she shares her opinions with your children. She owes you and them an apology. Explain to her that she stops that now - no excuses, no free passes anymore - if she does it again, she won't be allowed near your children. And then follow through.

 

Dianna

[QuirkyKapers]

I would be curious to know with all the tests and quizzes how much material her children have retained.  I prefer my kids master what they are learning, which to me means they can talk about it in their own words. I know in school I would memorize for the test.  If you gave me that test a week later, I am sure my test score would have gone down, unless I restudied.  I want my kids to be able to do more than just learn required information and treguretate it back like robots.  To me, this can destroy their love for learning.   It isn't like my kids never have tests though.  They have been in programs where they do that.   I don't know if that helps you.  In my opinion, you don't need to defend yourself to your friend. Since she thinks her way is right, there probably isn't going to be anything profound that will make her have respect for your style of teaching. 

 

"I am glad your way of homeschooling works for your family.  Isn't it great how homeschooling is such a diverse community and there are so many ways kids can learn instead of traditional methods.  And, oh, by the way, if you continue to tell my kids that I am letting them down, you won't be welcome to come over any longer.  I don't critique your teaching methods and would appreciate it you would show me the same respect."  Pass the bean dip.  If she can't respect what you say, than I would put distance in the relationship.  If she asks about it, I would be honest and tell her got tired of her nagging.  You already have a mother, spouse and kids that can nag just fine, you don't need to add to the list.  ;)  No offense intended if your mom, spouse and kids don't nag you.  

 

Oh- you could try a word picture like:  When you say x, it makes me feel like a chick being pecked on by a hen.  O.k. probably not a good picture, but its late.  Maybe some others have some ideas.....

[NASDAQ]

I would allow my very close friend to say something like that to me. I keep Very Good Friends so they can point out things I might miss even if sometimes those things are wrong and/or hurtful.

 

But just shut it down now. Really. You're going to do the opposite of convince her: you're going to make it seem as if you're opening this as a neutral debate topic (which type of home schooling is best?) rather than commentary on your life.

 

"I appreciate that you feel comfortable enough to tell me this but I've made my decision and I'm not interested in defending it or discussing it further. And never, ever talk to my kids about my mothering."

[LucyStoner]

I'd be tempted to start making copious amounts of comments about how if I wanted my kids to be schooled like that I would have put them in public school because there is no difference.

Yeah, the best defense is a good offense and all that.