Ladies, this is your conscience speaking: "Are you past due for a mammogram?"

[Doran]

Remember a little while back when I said I'd made an appointment for a mammogram, and how it was over a month away, and that I might not have any motivation to go a month from then? (It's okay if you don't remember...but trust me, it happened.) Today, I went. Yep, felt like a piece of bread dough with nerve endings, I did. Surprisingly, the month long wait for the appointment proved to be beneficial because our imaging center just got a brand new digital imaging machine which reads "my kind of breasts" better than the old technology. So, it's done. No results yet, of course, so I'm still crossing my fingers on that. But, it's done.

 

You should go, too. I was six years past due for mine, and I am now very relieved to be able to tell my own conscience to back off, bucko! :001_smile:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Remember a little while back when I said I'd made an appointment for a mammogram, and how it was over a month away, and that I might not have any motivation to go a month from then? (It's okay if you don't remember...but trust me, it happened.) Today, I went. Yep, felt like a piece of bread dough with nerve endings, I did. Surprisingly, the month long wait for the appointment proved to be beneficial because our imaging center just got a brand new digital imaging machine which reads "my kind of breasts" better than the old technology. So, it's done. No results yet, of course, so I'm still crossing my fingers on that. But, it's done.

 

You should go, too. I was six years past due for mine, and I am now very relieved to be able to tell my own conscience to back off, bucko! :001_smile:

 

Yeh, yeh, yeh, I'm goin' already. Thursday. I'll get a consult then. Happy?

 

Good for you, Doran. I'm proud you went.

[Crissy]

it's done.

 

:

 

 

Yay, Doran! I'm so glad you went.

 

I'm good. I had my first at 34, so I'm not due for another year yet.

[Chelle in MO]

Just went a couple of weeks ago. All clear. It only took 'til I got to the parking lot to remember to breathe! Not really, but man, it smarts! I loved the e-mail that circulated a few years ago about simulating mammograms--you know, lie down naked on the floor of the garage and have a friend back the car over your br*ast or slam it in the refrigerator door. Too funny.

 

Now if I could just remember to do the monthly exams between now and the next check up!

 

Chelle

[WTMindy]

Remember a little while back when I said I'd made an appointment for a mammogram, and how it was over a month away, and that I might not have any motivation to go a month from then? (It's okay if you don't remember...but trust me, it happened.) Today, I went. Yep, felt like a piece of bread dough with nerve endings, I did. Surprisingly, the month long wait for the appointment proved to be beneficial because our imaging center just got a brand new digital imaging machine which reads "my kind of breasts" better than the old technology. So, it's done. No results yet, of course, so I'm still crossing my fingers on that. But, it's done.

 

You should go, too. I was six years past due for mine, and I am now very relieved to be able to tell my own conscience to back off, bucko! :001_smile:

 

I'm actually going on Wednesday. Blech!!

[fosterisacoolcat]

Not to hijack your thread but add your yearly trip to the dermatologist to that list. Skin cancer is some scary stuff and you cant see all the parts of your body, even with the creative use of a mirror!!

[mom31257]

I actually have never had one yet, and was a year overdue for a pap smear. We have no family here, and when I was to go last summer, my husband had 2 surgeries and spent 3 months on crutches. I put it off and never got around to rescheduling.

 

I had ear pain and a sore throat, so I went to our walk-in family practice tonight after my husband got in from school. I asked and they could do the pap there. They are going to schedule me for a mammogram at the hospital here. They also did a complete blood work up. I was glad to get it all taken care of for just 1 co-pay!

 

I don't have an ear infection, but they think it's allergy related. I'm going to try Zyrtec otc.

[Nicole M]

Back off, conscience.

 

Okay, serious question. I have some vague notion that I heard that having frequent mammograms can actually increase your risk of breast cancer. Is that a lot of hooey? I have another vague recollection of discussing this with my midwife, before she retired taking all my records with her, and we "decided" to wait until I was 45 for the first and then have a mammogram every other year.

 

So according to that schedule, I'm not late for my first mammogram. Yet. But I'm about 5 years overdue for a pap. My new insurance co. is stalking me.

 

I'd love to hear how others schedule their mammograms. (Or don't, as the case might be for some.;))

[sdWTMer]

My time is not up yet for one, but thanks for the reminder!

[Ellie]

Okay, serious question. I have some vague notion that I heard that having frequent mammograms can actually increase your risk of breast cancer. Is that a lot of hooey? I have another vague recollection of discussing this with my midwife, before she retired taking all my records with her, and we "decided" to wait until I was 45 for the first and then have a mammogram every other year.

Let me scare you just a little.

 

My friend Mary Leggewie skipped *one year* between mammograms. She ended up having a double mastectomy, from which she was recovering when she acquired a secondary infection. She passed away last December.

 

I will *never* skip a year again.

[Nicole M]

Let me scare you just a little.

 

My friend Mary Leggewie skipped *one year* between mammograms. She ended up having a double mastectomy, from which she was recovering when she acquired a secondary infection. She passed away last December.

 

I will *never* skip a year again.

 

Oh, Ellie. I'm so sorry about your friend.

 

The thing that's just gets me about breast cancer is that all this to-do is made about indicators for risk. But they seem to mean nothing. A friend of ours had no indicators (lots of babies, lots of nursing, no family history, etc.), went to all her scheduled mammograms, did the self check monthly and still got cancer.

 

When my midwife retired with my records and my employer forced us into a hostile, expensive health care system, it took the wind out of my sails. But now I'll get on it.

 

Again, I'm terribly sorry for the loss of your friend. Thank you for being willing to share that story.

 

Nicole

[Sarah CB]

I haven't gone yet. I'm only thirty, but my half-sister (my dad's daughter) died of breast cancer when she was 27...she left behind 4 and 2 year old girls. I was 16. I didn't think I'd make it to 27 and I think that every bump, ache, and spot is cancer. I'm scared to actually go for a mammorgam and I haven't gone for a pap test in over 6 year.

 

I'm also convinced that cancer kills and there's no point in fighting it - besides giving false hope to everyone around you. I remember when my sister was dying - no one would admit that she was dying. Every conversation was positive. Even when she started going to the Chinese medicine doctor they were sure that would cure it. I didn't actually think she was going to die until I was told that the doctors gave her three weeks. I lived halfway across the country and hitch-hiked there arriving four hours too late.

 

I've obviously got some issues with cancer that I should probably get over pretty quick.

[VaKim]

I'm 42. Never had one and never intend to. Never have paps either, or any other doctor appts. unless I am very sick (last time was years ago.) I have seen too many get all the tests, and when it becomes necessary, treatments, and still die. But not only do they die, but the little bit of life they have left they spend so sick they cannot enjoy it. Even if I found out I had cancer, I would refuse treatments.

 

I don't even have a "conscience" about such things. Oh, and I am by no means trying to convince anyone else or any such thing. Just stating my own point of view for me. :-)

[Alice]

Good for you Doran!

 

I have my very first one scheduled in September. :)

[Bev in B'ville]

I just recently went for my yearly mammogram. I was called back for magnification studies last week. Next Monday I'll be getting a biopsy (if you all can keep me in your prayers, please). The surgeon told me the good news is that the specks are microscopic and if they are cancer they're tiny and can be treated with complete success. (They'd remove the specks and then I'd do radiation for a month or so just to make sure.)

 

He also told me by the time you can palpate (feel) a lump, the cancer has already been in your body for 8-10 years! That's a lot of time.

 

Please, please, please get your yearly mammogram. Early detection is THE KEY to successful treatment.

[Kelli in TN]

I am current, but due for one. I am waiting for a phone call with my appt. date and time. (My physician's nurse actually takes care of this for the patients. You tell her what day of the week is good and she gets the appt set up and calls you back)

 

I am current on everything else. Which reminds me, I need to start another thread about my labwork.

[Closeacademy]

I got my appointment card to schedule my baseline screen and then the big flood came. Our hospital was one of the biggest hit and was closed down. The ER was just opened up again and so I have to wait a little while to make that appointment until that part of the hospital opens again. It may be next June before everything is up and running again.

 

:001_smile:

[Tracy in Ky]

I just had one yesterday!! :D The lady doing the test and I chatted *during* the test about medicinal herbs! Ha. It was the most fun mamo that I have had.

 

I go every year.

[Marie in Oh]

I am now experiencing my second friend being diagnosed in a year's time. First friend is 34 with a major family history and is doing great. Second is in her 50's, no family history, diagnosed with inflammatory cancer-- google it, it is scary stuff but extremely rare and extremely agressive. She has been given 3 years. Her youngest is 11. I have not gone yet-- I am 35-- but I understand you cant be pregnant or nursing for 1 year before having one. That hasn't ever happened in 11 years.

 

By the way, there are three types of b. cancers. The most common is estrogen + which is surpressed in childbearing/nursing years. This is the type that the more children you have and nurse, the less risk you are for getting. Another kind, progesteron + actually grows during the childbearing years, while progesteron levels are high. This type (the one my 34 yo friend has) has more genetic factors to it and you tend to get it younger. Inflammatory b. cancer is neither of the two, hard to diagnose, and extremely rare- 1% of the cancers diagnosed in the US are this type. The symptoms are itchy spots in br$@sts, one being larger than the other, pain and inflammation. It is more common in African American and Eastern european women - my friend with it is Romanian.

 

This is not something I want to be an "expert on" but when it is happening all around you, you tend to read up. It isn't worth not going. I will, as soon as I am able and not nursing. Go ladies. For the people who love you and want you around-- and for your grandchildren.

[Renee in NC]

They won't give me one because I am "too young." Hooey! My grandmother died of breast cancer in her 30s!:confused:

[cin]

I've obviously got some issues with cancer that I should probably get over pretty quick.

 

 

You and 90% of the population. My Gma In Law had breast cancer and was cured (at 85 or some ungodly age!) and I have 2 friends who have been cured of various cancers. But I do believe that we all have cancer-phobia to a certain degree, and in fact, the word carcinophobia is in the dictionary now.

 

:grouphug:

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I understand how you feel about this, and in certain scenarios I might feel the same. In fact the most interesting thing a doctor ever told me was to stay away from doctors as much as possible.

 

However, two years ago my mother found a lump under her breast that turned out to be stage 2 cancer. She had a lumpectomy, chemo, and radiation. Today she is 100% healthy, no sign of there ever being a problem.

 

 

She was told it was from taking hormones during menopause. Guess what I won't be doing.

[Tracy in Ky]

They won't give me one because I am "too young." Hooey! My grandmother died of breast cancer in her 30s!:confused:

 

 

I had my first at 29, because I wanted to make sure I was okay. I told my dr. that if insurance didn't pay, then I would. But they paid for it.:)

[LisaNY]

I haven't gone yet. I'm only thirty, but my half-sister (my dad's daughter) died of breast cancer when she was 27...she left behind 4 and 2 year old girls. I was 16. I didn't think I'd make it to 27 and I think that every bump, ache, and spot is cancer. I'm scared to actually go for a mammorgam and I haven't gone for a pap test in over 6 year.

 

I'm also convinced that cancer kills and there's no point in fighting it - besides giving false hope to everyone around you. I remember when my sister was dying - no one would admit that she was dying. Every conversation was positive. Even when she started going to the Chinese medicine doctor they were sure that would cure it. I didn't actually think she was going to die until I was told that the doctors gave her three weeks. I lived halfway across the country and hitch-hiked there arriving four hours too late.

 

I've obviously got some issues with cancer that I should probably get over pretty quick.

 

Oh, (((Sarah))) you're not alone, my dear. I have many of the same issues that you do. I watched two good friends die of breast cancer, and lost my dear younger brother to Leukemia. I know all too well what you are talking about. :sad:

 

I had a mammo about 1 1/2 years ago, and they found "suspicious" cells. I had to undergo breast biopsy surgery for it. The emotional toll it took on me was darn near devastating.

 

You don't know how many times I've said things like, "I hope I live to see ________ ..."

 

I hate, hate, hate feeling this way.

[lynn]

I did mine this year. Those that keep putting it off just go, it really isn't all that bad. It will be one to check off the list of checkups you need to do.

[Scarlett]

Mine is scheduled for next Thursday. My mom is a breast cancer survivor. (almost 5 years since diagnosis). Hers is most likely from the hormones she took for over 10 years. I too will never take a hormone. And I don't miss my mamograms although hers was found by a GP when she went in for a unrelated topical cyst. He found the spot and the ultrasound couldn't even pick it up. How is that for experience paying off?

[mommaduck]

I have a question, but I posted it here http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49547 so as not to derail.

[Renee in NC]

I had my first at 29, because I wanted to make sure I was okay. I told my dr. that if insurance didn't pay, then I would. But they paid for it.:)

 

I haven't had insurance in years (almost 10!) so I think they don't want me to do it until absolutely necessary. How much is a mammogram anyway?

[Doran]

Six years since my last mammogram. Six between my recent and last pap. Over two since my last physical. I'm in the camp that believes I'm better off to stay away from doctors as much as possible, really. But, then I think about the stories, like Ellie's and Sarah's, and I get cold feet. I figure I owe it to somebody (though I realize that's illogical) to be more consistent. I'm not afraid of doctors, and I'm not really afraid of what they're going to tell me. I'm afraid of the money it will cost, because I'm not among the fortunate who have employer paid benefits. Our insurance is paid out of pocket and until recently, offered nothing in the way of wellness screenings. And, I'm afraid of the mantra of fear our medical system creates. As I've posted before, one of the most profound things I ever heard spoken was from an elderly black gentleman whose wife was dying of cancer. When I told him I was headed to a doctor after so many years, he said, "Well, one thing's sure..you'll be goin' back regular now, cuz they always find sumpin' wrong wicha." Truer words were never spoken. And, that's what I hate most.

 

When I had my first mammo at 40 -- good girl that I was -- I was called in for follow up. They did a second set of x-rays and an ultrasound. The nurses called in the radiologist because they couldnt' find anything. The radiologist couldn't find anything conclusive either. All they could say was, "Well, there's nothing really abnormal in your images. You just have really dense breasts. But, since we can't be sure, we want you to come back in six months for another set of x-rays. And, then we'll get you back in another six months from then - a year from today - and we'll establish your baseline from that." So, I was going to have three sets of x-rays taken, an out of pocket expense for me, and exposure to whatever amount of radiation, so they could "be sure". I declined. I never went back. That was 2002. I've walked around for six years with that question mark in my head. Is that stupid, or what?!?

 

I may be called in again this time. They may tell me something horrible. I have this little voice in my head saying, if it's bad news, it's my own fault for not following up. I'm praying all will be well, but there are no guarantees. And, then, I'm right back to where I started and to where VaKim is. There are never any guarantees. So, who am I fooling? And, why do I have to live in perpetual fear of being sick when I'm going to die no matter what?

 

Woah. Didn't mean to get all heavy duty on you there, people. Guess I need a cup of tea and a wind down. :001_huh: :001_smile:

[Sara R]

No more mammograms needed for me! That's the positive side of going through a bilateral mastectomy...

 

My stats, for the curious:

 

Diagnosed at age 32, no family history. I had 2 lumps in my 20s that were biopsied and found to be benign. I felt a lump in October and got it biopsied in November (figuring this would be only an inconvenience like my last two biopsies; totally not worried about cancer)--but it was cancer. I had had a clinical breast exam in August, and there was no palpable lump then. At the time, the doctor used the time to train me officially how to do a breast exam, and I felt myself that there was no lump there at that time. That tumor was pretty darn fast-growing. I know I've read that it takes tumors 8-10 years to grow large enough to feel, but I don't think that's true for all cases.

 

Mine was estrogen positive. Taking birth control pills is a risk factor for estrogen positive breast cancer, but I had only taken them for 3 months 10 years prior. It was already stage 3 and spread to a bunch of lymph nodes. I had about a 50% chance of recurrence within 5 years, even with all the treatment.

 

I went to a major cancer center, where there were really nice people and where I could have confidence that we were fighting the cancer hard from the first shot, because your first shot is your best shot. Because I had two tumors, a mastectomy was necessary. After a lot of internal debate I decided on a bilateral for a lot of reasons (wanting to prevent future surgeries and biopsies, symmetry). I had that in December. Then I had chemo (January-April) and radiation (May-June). Then hormone therapy, which means no-hormone therapy, because the hormones make the cancer grow. I opted to have my ovaries removed (November) to put me into menopause and to reduce the chance of recurrence. I had reconstruction but that was a bit of a fiasco. If I had it to do over again I don't think I would choose reconstruction.

 

The good news--I'm 2 1/2 years from diagnosis, and nothing nothing nothing! I'm very glad I went through treatment. I've had a few more years to teach my kids important things. But I was discouraged at the many stories of people who go through treatment and die anyway. It's a tough choice, and if I had a recurrence I don't know if I would opt for treatment or not. For the original diagnosis, I think the decision to treat is easier. You have a better chance of beating it, and treatment isn't as crippling (for most) as chemo is after a recurrence. During chemo, my mom came and helped out a lot with the household, but I still functioned emotionally as Mom for my kids. It wasn't like I was bedridden for months. I'm very grateful for how things have turned out.

 

About mammograms for the under-50 set: a lot of studies have shown that there are no benefits to routine screening mammograms for women under 50. If you want to study this further you can go to your library and pick up Susan Love's Breast Book. Page 236 begins the discussion about screening mammograms for women under 50. After age 50 the benefits are clear. They really do need to develop some sort of reliable screening method for women under 50, because younger women do get breast cancer and they die from it more often and usually more quickly (cancers in younger people tend to be more aggressive). The problem is that mammograms aren't very good at finding cancer in young dense breasts.

[JFSinIL]

I went in a couple months ago and it was easy. But then I do not have all that much to squish. ;)

[Doran]

No more mammograms needed for me! That's the positive side of going through a bilateral mastectomy...

 

 

Thank you for sharing your story. There is always something to learn and someone who can teach us so well. You've done that for me.

 

Peace,

[Robin in Tx]

Ellie, I'm very sorry about your friend.

 

One of my best childhood friends delayed a mammogram after feeling a lump and in the end it cost her her life (passed away last summer, the week of her 50th birthday).

 

My very best friend in the whole wide world has never in her life had a mammogram. She felt something, went to get it checked out, and was diagnosed with cancer the week of her 50th birthday (about a month ago). Chemo has begun and she will be facing surgery in a few months, probably a mastectomoy.

 

Yeah... get those routine exams, ladies.

 

Robin

[Kimberleigh]

I'm the camp that feels you're perfectly healthy until a doctor tells you that you're sick. So if I don't go to the doctor, I'm fine! I haven't had a pap in over ten years. I had a mammo three years ago because I had an infected lymph node that needed some attention, but haven't been back since.

 

I'm bad, I know. But I had a cousin who was hit by a bus and killed when she was in her early 30's, so I know that sometimes things happen even when you follow all the rules.

[Jennifer3141]

I've got 2 more years until I have I need one. But I'm very proud of all of you who have been so proactive with your health!

 

Jen

[Tracy in Ky]

I haven't had insurance in years (almost 10!) so I think they don't want me to do it until absolutely necessary. How much is a mammogram anyway?

 

I really don't know. Maybe someone on here does. It may also depend on where you get it done. An in-house mamo might be cheaper than going to the hospital.

[Diana in OR]

Asking sheepishly, what's "overdue"?

 

I had a few off and on during my 30s, but always clear. Then I had a bre*st reduction 5 years ago. (The dr. called it a giant biopsy,lol.) I had to wait 2 years after the surgery before I could have a mamo.

 

At 39, they were able to get a good baseline image. My GP told me that the American Physicians' Association now recommends mammograms every other year for women in their 40s. The American Cancer Society still recommends them every year starting at 40.

 

I'm 41, and due for a yearly at the end of this month, but could wait another year if I go by what my GP says.

 

Still debating.

[Doran]

Asking sheepishly, what's "overdue"?

 

I had a few off and on during my 30s, but always clear. Then I had a bre*st reduction 5 years ago. (The dr. called it a giant biopsy,lol.) I had to wait 2 years after the surgery before I could have a mamo.

 

At 39, they were able to get a good baseline image. My GP told me that the American Physicians' Association now recommends mammograms every other year for women in their 40s. The American Cancer Society still recommends them every year starting at 40.

 

I'm 41, and due for a yearly at the end of this month, but could wait another year if I go by what my GP says.

 

Still debating.

 

 

...as, I'm sure, would be the opinions of those who've had lumps removed, more extensive cancer treatments, or a history of BC in their families...

But, if your GP says every other year is fine, then I'd go with that. JMHO.

[Amy loves Bud]

I'm 42. Never had one and never intend to. Never have paps either, or any other doctor appts. unless I am very sick (last time was years ago.) I have seen too many get all the tests, and when it becomes necessary, treatments, and still die. But not only do they die, but the little bit of life they have left they spend so sick they cannot enjoy it. Even if I found out I had cancer, I would refuse treatments.

 

I don't even have a "conscience" about such things. Oh, and I am by no means trying to convince anyone else or any such thing. Just stating my own point of view for me. :-)

 

 

I think that is very interesting because I am the total opposite. I'm still very upset with my mother, who died of lung cancer, for not fighting harder (and also at my sister for encouraging her to stop treatments). Because of my feelings about that I've determined that I will do all the recommended screening I can and pursue all treatments if I am ever faced with such a situation.

 

I think it is very interesting how our personal stories color our views on things. (Also not trying to convince anyone as it is very personal, I just find it something worth thinking about.) I pray that neither one of us will ever be challenged in our convictions!

[Guest goodneighbor]

I am scheduled for one in October. I just weaned my dd a week ago so I could dry up in time. I was sad to stop nursing, but dh reminded me that it's my life at stake, and dd will be fine (she's 20 months). We've been following a lump for some time, but the surgeon felt ok with things to see me in a year instead of every 6 months, like we were doing. While I was pregnant and nursing early on, they monitored me with a sonogram.

 

My mother had cancer on both sides. She was misdiagnosed on her second one, and eventually died from it. She was 53 when she died, and 44 when she was first diagnosed.

[HRAAB]

Yeah, my conscience was yelling (aka as my dh) at me to get it done. So I did. My first at age 47. Bad, bad, I know. I didn't like it, it wasn't comfortable, but I survived and all is good. I've promised myself and dh to be responsible about this - as long as it doesn't slip my mind.

 

Janet

[Parrothead]

I'm glad you went.

 

I'm supposed to have one done this year. I had an appointment in March, but we had a blizzard that day so I didn't make it.

[sandellie4]

I've had a hard time with self-checks and mammograms. I'm not overweight or anything, but the tissue in my breasts is thick, apparently, and the doctors and assistants, they say, just do the checks anyway. But then in the same breath, they say, it will be difficult to tell the difference between normal and a lump during your self-checks and during mammograms. I'm afraid, terrified, of hospitals and surgeries, and the last thing I want to do is have a bunch of false positives because my breasts are too dense and don't want to cooperate with the testing.

[yvonne]

I haven't had insurance in years (almost 10!) so I think they don't want me to do it until absolutely necessary. How much is a mammogram anyway?

 

I just had one today. The posted prices were about $350 for the hospital and $150 for the radiology center, so about $500 total.

 

yvonne

[Scarlett]

I just had one today. The posted prices were about $350 for the hospital and $150 for the radiology center, so about $500 total.

 

yvonne

 

 

My insurance has paid for it the last couple of years, but I'm pretty sure the last time I had to pay, it was only about $120. :confused: Maybe I'm wrong.

[Mom to Aly]

OMG, thank you! I'm 42 and still have never had one--just keep putting it off, and had totally forgotten! Yes, I must do this!

[LisaKinVA]

Good reminder.

 

It was on my "to do before 40th b-day list" this fall, but I'm pregnant. No unnecessary x-rays for me (no lumps either...)

 

With BFding, I probably will have one sometime in 2010. I'm not sure how the machine would take to getting wet :lol:

 

There have been no issues anywhere in my family tree (well, okay, we have issues, just not ones that deal with mammograms :tongue_smilie:)

[jonesloonybin]

Boy it is hard when dealing with Cancer. My Mat. Grandma died of B. Cancer. My M. Aunt died of Cancer. My Mother died at age 40 of a Brain Tumor. I understand the baggage and fears that come from watching someone struggle with Cancer. I have had "the talk" with dh about what would happen if I had cancer. I would do all I could and fight to live if I had a chance but my mother never had a chance. There was 0 chance of survival due to the location of the tumor. The treatment and surgury actually made thing worse for her. She could not eat/walk/use the bathroom/use the left side of her body at all/was delusional/etc. It was so hard to watch. So, while she live 1yr/2months after diagnoses...she actually ended up with less functional time. All around sad.

 

My heart goes out to anyone that is going through this or knows someone who has cancer. I wish you all the best and hope things look up for you.

[kristavws]

No -had it done recently. Now the dentist, that is another story. Personally, I would rather have a mammogram done and go the gyno on the same day, then go to the dentist.

 

Krista