If you don't drink alcohol, do you allow

[Murphy101]

My teens have their own company just like I do. I don't tell my teens, oh I'm having soandso over so you can't do whatever. (I can't think what, but I'm sure there's something someone wouldn't like.)

 

I don't really give much consideration to who they have visiting other than setting another plate out.

 

We just go about our lives.

 

My dh home brews beer, but I don't really talk about it bc I rarely drink beer. My body doesn't process bubbles. ;) I am not sure any of their friends know we often have two kegs in house.

 

I usually have a few bottles of wine in the house too. When I'm on a whole30 round, I don't drink any of it. But when not on a round? I quite enjoy sipping Chardonnay while knitting or crocheting by the fire while watching a show. If you came by after dinner, you might see me doing that.

 

I don't think I should need to adjust my home life for my teens' friends and I wouldn't expect other people to do it for mine.

 

If you feel these people are awful influences you can't trust with your teen, then go elsewhere.

 

But otherwise, what they eat, drink, watch on tv, music they play and many other things are not for you to handle beyond deciding to either deal with it or go elsewhere.

 

On a related note, I once had someone tell me my dh and I were inappropriate bc we kiss (not necking or making out, just lips or cheeks), he pats my bum, and we "touch too much".

 

I just sorta looked at her like she had sprouted a second heads, said sorry, and didn't invite her or her kids back over.

[Joker]

I have honestly never thought twice about having a beer or glass of wine in front of dds' friends. They have had many sleepovers and it's just not ever been a thing I have thought about. I enjoy a good beer or glass of wine and can't remember the last time I had too much. I would probably be offended if someone acted like it was wrong and asked me not to do it in front of their child. That child would probably not be invited over again.

 

I am completely appalled at the PP who stated it is somehow worse for a dad to drink and be left at home with girls. My dad had a beer pretty much every day after work. He worked hard and enjoyed that one beer. I don't ever remember seeing him drunk. The idea that he would somehow be dangerous to girls because he drank ticks me off. He was a sweetheart of a man. I hope I never view all men/fathers in the same manner.

[Mom in High Heels]

Hey, I had 2 glasses of wine with dinner!!!  Indy didn't have any friends over, but I would have had the wine even if he had.

 

ETA:  It was a lovely Moscato (a bit sweeter than I usually drink) and Indy tried it.  He liked it, but didn't ask for more, because he knows he's only allowed to taste.

[Murphy101]

I have honestly never thought twice about having a beer or glass of wine in front of dds' friends. They have had many sleepovers and it's just not ever been a thing I have thought about. I enjoy a good beer or glass of wine and can't remember the last time I had too much. I would probably be offended if someone acted like it was wrong and asked me not to do it in front of their child. That child would probably not be invited over again.

 

I am completely appalled at the PP who stated it is somehow worse for a dad to drink and be left at home with girls. My dad had a beer pretty much every day after work. He worked hard and enjoyed that one beer. I don't ever remember seeing him drunk. The idea that he would somehow be dangerous to girls because he drank ticks me off. He was a sweetheart of a man. I hope I never view all men/fathers in the same manner.

Holy moly. I missed that. Amen. What an obscene and sick view of men and of responsible drinking.

[LucyStoner]

Now I am thinking about having a glass of wine reading this thread.  But I already brushed my teeth.  So tomorrow, people, tomorrow.  I can't be the only one? 

[Joker]

Now I am thinking about having a glass of wine reading this thread.  But I already brushed my teeth.  So tomorrow, people, tomorrow.  I can't be the only one? 

 

I'm drinking a beer.

[MomatHWTK]

This also does not seem like a good plan. Not ever allowing your children to go to our people's houses? Even if you know them? Yes, you may feel safer having controlled their environment to this extent, but you'll likely end up with new and different set of problems having these types of restrictions. Ever see kids who are underexposed to other people and environments and ideas and social situations? 

 

I'm all for making very, very sure about supervision and standards of the houses in which my young children socialize. However, not allowing it at all? This is fear that is unhealthy for your kids and will make them lose out on fun and also in learning how to navigate socially. 

 

OP, please don't follow this advice.

 

 

 

A. I didn't advise OP to never allow her children anywhere, I advised her first to be more restrictive and second to begin working on a plan to ease those restrictions. 

B. Not choosing to allow my 9 and under children to visit other homes without me is not going to scar them for life and I have already indicated that such visits are impossible for my eldest. 

C. Visiting and staying at another child's home with that child's parents is not the only means of socializing nor does it mean that they are underexposed to other people and enviroments. 

 

Your post is laden with assumptions about how I approach my chlidren's upbringing and socialization that are simply untrue.   I have not once mentioned fear, nor have I indicated that I would not allow my children to visit an appropriate home in the future.  I mentioned that we were "that" set of parents specifically because I knew there would be others who chose to criticize our choice.  We have sound reasons for our decisions, Dh and I are in agreement with regard to our decisions and we are acting in accordance with our conscience.  In the end only DH and I are responsible for our children and we are only answerable to the One who placed those children in our care.

[ocelotmom]

I am not concerned about losing credibility. I don't lie to my children or misrepresent things to them, and they know it. I'm a little insulted by that. 

 

Dh and I come from homes where drinking was non-existent. My home was not one it was super-preached against, but my parents didn't do it. Dh's home was one where it was very much condemned. We've gone to churches for years with people who never drink. This is the first time we've encountered this because we've been in very conservative circles, so I just wasn't sure how to go about handling it since we've never had to think about it or make these decisions before. 

 

Just go into it with the knowledge that most people who are responsible light to moderate drinkers don't lock up their alcohol, and may have it displayed in some way (eg. wine rack), or easily visible in the refrigerator or an accessible cabinet. The people for whom alcohol is not a problem (either personally or because of family history) or moral taboo just don't tend to think of it as something that needs to be locked up or hidden.

 

(Ours is in a lockable pantry (along with plenty of utterly benign stuff) because our housemate's autistic daughter will take anything that looks the slightest bit appealing. The fact that it's locked indicates that there is a dysfunction of some sort, though, in this case, not one that would be dangerous to guests. I suspect similar is true of most people.)

[Coffeetime]

Now I am thinking about having a glass of wine reading this thread.  But I already brushed my teeth.  So tomorrow, people, tomorrow.  I can't be the only one? 

 

 

I'm drinking a beer.

 

Well, typically it'd be a vodka sprite or a glass of wine… but tonight? I just spiked my eggnog. ;)

[KungFuPanda]

 

 

My advice is NOT to speak to the mom about this. She might think you're paranoid and judgmental. That's how I'd feel if I did someone a favor and was repaid with an awkward conversation concerning my behavior when it wasn't illegal, immoral, or irresponsible. If you went so far as to suggest I rework my storage system for ANYTHING in my home, I'd begin to wonder if I'd even want to have my child around you and your boundary issues.

 

It's your business if you want to be separate fom the world and avoid every grocery store, restaurant, event, and home that contains alcohol. However, you can't expect people without this stance to run ahead of you and stage the world so you can feel like you're somehow not in it. It's an odd request.

[Haiku]

Should I just speak with the mom about my feelings and ask that they not drink when ds is there and put it away? 

 

No.

 

I work in a craft beer and homebrew store. My husband is a homebrewer. We drink a few times a week, usually one (snobby) beer each. We have alcohol visible in our home. If you came to me and asked that I put my beer out of sight and didn't drink in my own home, I would assume that we are not compatible as friends. Not because I value alcohol over people, but because if you assume that any hint of alcohol will damage your children, then you will never be comfortable around as us we talk openly about alcohol, brewing, the properties of yeast and hops, which beers we enjoy and why, etc., with our children. (In fact, the kids wanted to brew beer for their science fair project; we had them do the science of yeast, instead). I could probably get on board with agreeing not to drink when supervising your child (because, as I mentioned, I may have 1-3 beers a week in the evening, so it's not like I depend on alcohol for daily relaxation or enjoyment), but to be told that my home needed to be cleansed of all visible alcohol would be out of line on your part. It's my home, and if being friends with you requires that I re-arrange whenever you come over, I won't do it.

 

FWIW, my mother is an alcoholic, as was my grandmother. I don't take the "ban all alcohol" approach, as I don't think it will adequately prepare my kids for the situations they will encounter and the decisions they will have to make. 

[NicAnn]

I'm surprised how many here think its appropriate to drink while caring for other people's kids, or to have alcohol at events intended for children (birthday parties).

 

OP I'm glad you are staying strong on your opinions here.

[Laura Corin]

I'm surprised how many here think its appropriate to drink while caring for other people's kids, or to have alcohol at events intended for children (birthday parties).

 

OP I'm glad you are staying strong on your opinions here.

 

I think that we need to distinguish between having a drink and drinking to get drunk.  I would be legal to drive having drunk the amount I would normally take of an evening.  This is a state in which I am quite capable of looking after children.

 

I wouldn't normally expect to drink at a children's birthday party, because they usually take place in the afternoon, when I don't fancy alcohol.  If children were in my home in the evening, I wouldn't see anything wrong with it: it's a normal and legal activity for adults to pursue in a family setting, if the adults so wish.  

 

The OP doesn't want to drink - that's fine too.

 

L (moderate drinker daughter of moderate drinkers, modelling moderate drinking to her children)

[Prairie~Phlox]

My son had his 14th birthday on Monday and I had leftover jello shots in the fridge from a party in October, I let each of my kids have one.  Yes, we drink moderately, yes we will let them try things.  I would rather they do it in front of me, than sneak behind my back.  I really believe kids are likely to try something if their parents have forbidden it their whole life. I would be appalled if someone asked me not to drink when their kids are over.  My house, my rules, don't like it, don't let your kids come over.  We don't keep things locked up either. 

 

I grew up in a house where it was moderate as well, my dh does have a drink more often than I do, but I really don't care. 

 

 

[Trilliums]

your children to go to the homes of friends whose parents do drink?  I've let our ds go home with a friend from church a few times, and he was invited to the same friend's house for a birthday party. It was during the time our family does a cleaning job, and we weren't going to be done when the party was over. The mom said ds was welcome to stay there until we could come get him. When I got there the party was over and only some family members were still there. Some of the adults were drinking. 

 

 

You say "some" of the adults were drinking.

 

SO, anytime your son is over, you expect no one in the household to drink?  

 

I am not a drinker myself, but I cannot imagine asking everyone in a household to not drink while your son happens to be visiting.

[Haiku]

I'm surprised how many here think its appropriate to drink while caring for other people's kids, or to have alcohol at events intended for children (birthday parties).

 

Alcohol is not something that children need to be protected from. Humans have been fermenting beverages for seven millienia, and distilling has been around for at least two. It is a normal human activity to drink alcohol. The hysteria behind "any amount of alcohol impairs you" is not valid or accurate.

[*Lulu*]

I can appreciate where the OP is coming from. I come from a family where both my father and his father are alcoholics. Because of the dysfunctional use of alcohol in our home I determined I never wanted anything to do with drinking. I can count on one hand how many drinks I had prior to my 25th birthday. It was around that time that years of DH modeling responsible drinking started to sink in with me and I began to feel comfortable with moderate use of alcohol. (Including having it in our home.)

 

Personally I do not have any problem with other people drinking in moderation around my children. (Although, I honestly don't know how I would feel about someone driving my children after even one drink. That is my baggage though, and I know it.) My feeling is if I trust you enough to leave my children with you, then I know you well enough to trust you to be alright with you having a drink in front of my kids.

[Laura Corin]

  But, like I said, even having a drink during one's lunch break isn't considered shocking. 

 

When I worked as a language teacher (assistante) in a French high school (Lycee) from age 20 to 21, the standard teacher's lunch in the school canteen included a 1/3 bottle of red wine.  I didn't drink it (not a day-time drinker) but wine on the teachers' tables was a normal sight.

 

L

[Laura Corin]

Personally I do not have any problem with other people drinking in moderation around my children. (Although, I honestly don't know how I would feel about someone driving my children after even one drink. That is my baggage though, and I know it.) 

 

Although I drink around children, I personally choose not to drink and drive under any circumstances.  So I wouldn't drive someone else's child (or my own) after I had taken a drink.  If someone needed to get to hospital, I'd call an ambulance.  Otherwise, we could wait for a bus or taxi, or a lift from someone who had not been drinking.

 

L

[*Lulu*]

I wanted to add that I find DH and my approach of both of us modeling moderate alcohol consumption, discussing the family history, allowing small tastes, and trying to demystify drinking whenever possible to be much healthier than DH's parents' position of teetotaling or my father's position of excess.

[hsbeth]

 We've gone to churches for years with people who never drink. This is the first time we've encountered this because we've been in very conservative circles, so I just wasn't sure how to go about handling it since we've never had to think about it or make these decisions before. 

 

Did you happen to poke in on the thread asking questions about living in the deep south? It was an interesting read and one of the more noteworthy posts for me was a fabulous analogy shared by one poster who explained the difference between northern and southern relationships and talked about walls. Paraphrasing here, but the premise was that in our region of the country people often have low 1st walls (outwardly and immediately friendly) but very high second sets of walls (very difficult to truly know or have deep/intimate relationships with). We are northern transplants and this has been exactly our experience and it is uniquely different from other areas of the country.

 

We attended a very conservative (traditional Southern Baptist) church for our first five years here. Although people spoke out strongly against alcohol use and nearly all claimed to be non-drinkers, that really was not the reality at all. Many would drink privately and were just extremely paranoid about others finding out. I had some surreal experiences such as walking into a restaurant and having someone attempt to hide a drink behind a purse, under a table, etc. I've encountered folks in the grocery store who would pile other purchases on top of their alcohol or go to lengths to avoid seeing someone in the store. Then there were those who were outspoken about not allowing alcohol in their home, but instead had secret garage fridges and/or liquor and wine kept in sheds or garages. Many opened up to me about it, those who I never really would have "suspected" (including some church staff),  after dh and I left and joined another church. We had never pursued membership in this congregation because it was a sticking point with us theologically. But, after we left, you would not believe the number of folks who discussed it more openly with us after they realized it was one of the reasons for our departure. These weren't just acquaintances, these were families we socialized with outside of church, folks we spent considerable time with.

 

All that to say that I'd be very surprised if no one who attended church with you ever drank. It is amazing the attempts that some went through to hide it. Our current congregation is much less legalistic about drinking and the attitudes about alcohol are much, much healthier in our opinion.

 

I have the upmost respect for the spiritual convictions of others and would never want to encourage someone to drink or be exposed to drinking if they are otherwise led. If God has led you to believe it is sinful for you, then it would in fact be sinful for you to drink. Similarly though, some folks are convicted that home schooling their children is best. Modesty in dress is scripturally required, but the specifics of that (dresses only, headcovering, etc.) aren't as clear. I respect those who are led differently than my family would be.

 

Asking someone to completely abstain from alcohol while my child was there or to remove it would be almost like asking them to wear a dress, head cover, or pretend that they home schooled so that I or my child would feel more comfortable. It is rude and judgmental, even though I'm sure you would intentionally try not to make it come across that way. Just like there is a noticeable difference between modest and immodest dress and behavior, the difference between responsible and problematic alcohol consumption is easy to spot. My children certainly don't spend time with families who raise red flags for us and we are quite cautious about extended visits or sleepovers.

 

Is your concern the simple presence of alcohol in the home or do the parents seem to drink to the point of impairment?

[Tangerine]

Several of you have mentioned it, but this strikes me as so unbelievably culturally narrow.  This kind of restriction eliminates entire nations of people from being suitable to leave your children with.

[Murphy101]

I'm surprised how many here think its appropriate to drink while caring for other people's kids, or to have alcohol at events intended for children (birthday parties).

 

OP I'm glad you are staying strong on your opinions here.

I also serve coffee at events intended for children, even tho I don't expect any of the 10 year old to be served it.

 

There is "caring for other kids" and there is "some other kids happen to be around". If I'm hired to do a job? No wine for me. If the kids down the street are playing out front with my kids? You might find me sipping wine in the front patio while surfing the net on my iPad.

 

And 10 year olds are not 2 year olds. What kind of caring could they possibly need beyond ocassional argument mitigatation and serving them the same food as the rest of us? Frankly, if they needed much more than that, I'd send them home. Having your child visit my home doesn't make me some kind of employee to you.

[mytwomonkeys]

I am not concerned about losing credibility. I don't lie to my children or misrepresent things to them, and they know it. I'm a little insulted by that. 

 

Dh and I come from homes where drinking was non-existent. My home was not one it was super-preached against, but my parents didn't do it. Dh's home was one where it was very much condemned. We've gone to churches for years with people who never drink. This is the first time we've encountered this because we've been in very conservative circles, so I just wasn't sure how to go about handling it since we've never had to think about it or make these decisions before. 

 

Amy, I think it's nice that you chose to post here. I think your question is a valid one to ask. Wanting diverse input from people outside of your circle says you are open to better understanding how to handle this. I hope you are able to figure it out now & have peace with whatever decision you come too :grouphug:

[Cera]

Are you talking about people drinking wine from the bottles and beer from 40's in paper bags or a group of responsible adults having a glass or two of wine (or a beer or two) together while enjoying their evening?

 

In the first case of course I wouldn't allow my child to go to that house.  In the second case of course I would allow my child to go to that house.  I would relish the opportunity for her to see adults responsibly handling alcohol.  It demystifies drinking and allows her to see an example of the choices I would like her to make if she does choose to drink when she is legally old enough (and realistically, most people will try alcohol eventually).

 

I would never say anything to a parent who is choosing to drink responsibly in their own home.  It is absolutely their choice to make and something I have to accept or decline all invitations to avoid.  If someone approached me about my own consumption of an occasional beer or glass of wine at home, and even storing my own alcohol in my home,  I would honestly think twice about inviting them, or their family members, over again.

 

 

[[email protected]]

This thread seems in danger of veering towards rudeness. If you wish to continue this discussion, please state your opinions without name-calling or incivility. Thank you.

 

Moderator

[Kim in Appalachia]

When I worked as a language teacher (assistante) in a French high school (Lycee) from age 20 to 21, the standard teacher's lunch in the school canteen included a 1/3 bottle of red wine.  I didn't drink it (not a day-time drinker) but wine on the teachers' tables was a normal sight.

 

L

 

 

My dd had read in her French book (when she was taking French in highschool) that the teachers got a bottle of wine everyday!  I thought that French teachers are treated well. :)  

[Callie]

I can appreciate where the OP is coming from. I come from a family where both my father and his father are alcoholics. Because of the dysfunctional use of alcohol in our home I determined I never wanted anything to do with drinking. I can count on one hand how many drinks I had prior to my 25th birthday. It was around that time that years of DH modeling responsible drinking started to sink in with me and I began to feel comfortable with moderate use of alcohol. (Including having it in our home.)

 

Personally I do not have any problem with other people drinking in moderation around my children. (Although, I honestly don't know how I would feel about someone driving my children after even one drink. That is my baggage though, and I know it.) My feeling is if I trust you enough to leave my children with you, then I know you well enough to trust you to be alright with you having a drink in front of my kids.

This sums up my situation also.  And as I already mentioned I have really never witnessed moderate drinking (other than dh) because the people in my life absolutely drank to get knee-walking drunk.  Alcohol consumption meant chaos was soon to follow in both our families.  

 

Kids 1st b-day party = wooo-hoo lets get drunk, Easter egg hunt = drunk...  There would be a fist fight at ALL gatherings.  Guns fired at each other.  People jailed.  I have a distorted view of drinking.

[Callie]

Although I drink around children, I personally choose not to drink and drive under any circumstances.  So I wouldn't drive someone else's child (or my own) after I had taken a drink.  If someone needed to get to hospital, I'd call an ambulance.  Otherwise, we could wait for a bus or taxi, or a lift from someone who had not been drinking.

 

L

Dh nor I would ever drive after even one drink.  It is a miracle neither of us were killed by our fathers driving us drunk as children.  My dad has been jailed several times for dui.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Gotcha, that makes good sense!  And that's the thing that would scare me.  I've got a girl.  Send a girl into a house where the dad is drinking on Sunday afternoon, the mom leaves for groceries...  No way, NO WAY.  I'm not saying that precise thing happened with us.  (people on the boards know us locally, so I'm clarifying!)  I'm just agreeing that you never really know what's going on and safe is better than sorry.

 

 

LOL.  OK, if you're playing the gender card, I'm jumping in.

 

I appreciate my gender's rather dismal history over the past, say, forever (with the exception of that Munchausen by Proxy thing -- moms seem to have a monopoly on that little slice of horror).  I also would not be pounding down the drinks at a playdate, so I will also grant that point as one of heightened parental attention, regardless of gender.

 

However, would your scenario change if it was a mom draining a bottle of wine while dad went to the store?

How about mom with just a glass or two driving the minivan?

Your social circles might be filled with Sunday football dads with a beer in one hand and one thumb tucked into the waistband, but is that Al Bundy stereotype really such a universal thing?

Why is gender of the child a factor unless the main fear is not alcohol but sexual predation, and why is the assumption that sexual predation requires, or is even on the same spectrum with drinking?

 

It all assumes a whole-heaping-dump-truck-load of loosely pinned together little squiggly bits of supposition that go many great leaping bounds beyond adult rationality.

 

Discomfort and/or trust issues about men aren't new, but that's a whole different thread.

[Joanne]

There is some very alarming information present in this thread regarding alcohol and alcoholism.

 

Alcoholism is a disease: scientifically proven. The body (brain) of an alcoholic literally CRAVES more alcohol. This does not happen in a "normal" drinker. Certainly some life contexts and developmental stages include over consumption but unless the body of he person has the disease of alcoholism, they won't become alcoholic.

 

Modeling responsible drinking may impact drinkers who may over consume, but it won't change the biological response of the bodies prone to the disease of alcoholism.

 

It's true that early first use is correlated with higher stats of problem drinking. And teen brains are literally more vulnerable. A teen who starts drinking can develop a problem in 2 to 4 years whereas a adult/developed brain can take 5 to 7 years.

 

Most people use alcohol responsibly and moderately without risk of alcoholism. If a body is at risk, no amount of lectures, talks, or moderation will change the physical response on a that person does drink.

 

Much of this thread still belies character, moral and lifestyle issues as the risk factors - an outdated, stigmatized and scientifically inaccurate perspective.

[mom31257]

This thread seems in danger of veering towards rudeness. If you wish to continue this discussion, please state your opinions without name-calling or incivility. Thank you.

 

Moderator

 

I'm sorry that this is an issue that has caused these reactions. I just wanted to hear from others since I've never had to deal with this kind of decision before. I didn't want to come off as judgmental, so I thought seeking advice here might help me not be.  Being conservative doesn't always mean you are judgmental, so I hope people won't think that of all of us. 

[Lisa R.]

I'm sorry that this is an issue that has caused these reactions. I just wanted to hear from others since I've never had to deal with this kind of decision before. I didn't want to come off as judgmental, so I thought seeking advice here might help me not be.  Being conservative doesn't always mean you are judgmental, so I hope people won't think that of all of us. 

I commend you for seeking advice. That is what wise people do. 

 

There are two different ways to be conservative: 1) Have personal convictions that one holds and follows regardless of what those around him are doing. 2) Have personal convictions that one holds and expect others to respect and even adjust to those personal convictions. 

 

We are not discussing whether or not is is alright for a person to abstain from alcohol. I think virtually everyone on the board would agree that this is a fine personal conviction. It really doesn't even need justification. However, what we are discussing is whether or not is is alright to ask *other people* to adjust how they act based on our personal conviction. Those are two different things. 

 

Again, this is a good discussion, and I'm glad you started it.

[Joanne]

I don't see that as baggage. That is one thing I absolutely do not do. I do not drink then drive. Even one drink. Next week DH and I are going on a date. We want to try out some beer place (they have all sorts of exotic beers). We plan to take the bus so we both can have some. Otherwise only one of us would drink. And this place is literally a 10 minute drive from my house.

Agree. I don't drink at all (nor does children's dad). I have a casual and flexible response to recreational use of alcohol.

 

But driving? With kids? No. Not even ONE drink and absolutely not other people's kids.

[*Lulu*]

I don't see that as baggage.  That is one thing I absolutely do not do.  I do not drink then drive.  Even one drink.  Next week DH and I are going on a date.  We want to try out some beer place (they have all sorts of exotic beers).  We plan to take the bus so we both can have some.  Otherwise only one of us would drink.  And this place is literally a 10 minute drive from my house.

 

  

Agree. I don't drink at all (nor does children's dad). I have a casual and flexible response to recreational use of alcohol.

But driving? With kids? No. Not even ONE drink and absolutely not other people's kids.

Well that makes me feel better!

 

I almost always assume that my positions where drinking is concerned are more about my personal history than common sense. Good to know I'm not completely out there with this one.

[Carrie12345]

A person should feel free to keep their children out of my home if they don't find me a suitable, responsible influence. I *do* find it shocking that I might be considered a unsuitable, irresponsible influence and would almost definitely cut ties over such an implied accusation. Not just because I like to have a drink once in a while, but because I'd never feel comfortable, wondering what other perfectly normal aspects of me would be considered offensive to such a stringent family.

[Wildcat]

A person should feel free to keep their children out of my home if they don't find me a suitable, responsible influence. I *do* find it shocking that I might be considered a unsuitable, irresponsible influence and would almost definitely cut ties over such an implied accusation. Not just because I like to have a drink once in a while, but because I'd never feel comfortable, wondering what other perfectly normal aspects of me would be considered offensive to such a stringent family.

 

I did cut ties with a family over this.  I refuse to be judged in my own home.

[Spy Car]

I'm sorry that this is an issue that has caused these reactions. I just wanted to hear from others since I've never had to deal with this kind of decision before. I didn't want to come off as judgmental, so I thought seeking advice here might help me not be.  Being conservative doesn't always mean you are judgmental, so I hope people won't think that of all of us. 

 

 

I doubt there is a person here that isn't sympathetic to your concerns about alcohol and alcoholism (especially given your family history, and the seeming genetic components of alcoholism as a disease).

 

Many, if not most, people have been touched by the negative effects that alcohol has had on family, friends, or other loved ones. In many instances this includes experiences of great tragedy, personal suffering, and pain.

 

You are wise to seek a healthy relationship with alcohol for your family, and for your children especially. And setting an example of temperance may be the best possible option you have under the circumstances. That said, I think that many of us (and here I would include myself) would wonder if (based on what you've written here) a "healthy relationship with alcohol" is what you are modeling.

 

There are times when creating atmospheres of "fear" and "taboos" can have the opposite effects of those intended. I don't know you, but I would be concerned from  what you have written that you may be on that path (and I hope my concerns are unwarranted). I would also be concerned that while your concerns about genetic inheritance may be perfectly valid, that––combined with the "taboos" and the fears that seem to exist around this issue—you may be creating an impression in your childrens'  heads that if they should ever imbibe that they are destined to become alcoholics. That is a pretty heavy load to put on a child.

 

So, in the gentlest possible way, I would advise you to reconsider what ways create the healthiest life for you and your kids. Modeling a good life, and one that doesn't include drinking, is an awfully good start. This will make an impression. Just know you can't control the world, and that children can learn from seeing responsible alcohol consumption and (while is isn't always pretty) can learn for the demonstration effects of alcohol abuse as well.

 

All the best in find your way.

 

Bill

[zoobie]

I don't see that as baggage.  That is one thing I absolutely do not do.  I do not drink then drive.  Even one drink.  Next week DH and I are going on a date.  We want to try out some beer place (they have all sorts of exotic beers).  We plan to take the bus so we both can have some.  Otherwise only one of us would drink.  And this place is literally a 10 minute drive from my house. 

 

I totally agree. DH and I used a car service when we went to a chef's table with wine pairings. (Public transport sucks around here!) We love going to Epcot and being able to take the monorail "home." Otherwise one of us does not drink when we will have to drive within a couple of hours.

[Haiku]

But driving? With kids? No. Not even ONE drink and absolutely not other people's kids.

 

If one drink were enough to impair someone from driving, then restaurants and bars wouldn't be caught dead serving alcohol, as they could be held legally responsible if there were an alcohol-related accident. However, as the standard for driving under the influence is not "any amount of alcohol" in the blood but rather a legally stipulated amount, it is reasonable to assume that for most people, one drink wouldn't impair them so significantly. In fact, there are lots of websites you can visit to read about how much alcohol people could generally consume and not be too inebriated to drive.

 

 

 

 

[Joanne]

If one drink were enough to impair someone from driving, then restaurants and bars wouldn't be caught dead serving alcohol, as they could be held legally responsible if there were an alcohol-related accident. However, as the standard for driving under the influence is not "any amount of alcohol" in the blood but rather a legally stipulated amount, it is reasonable to assume that for most people, one drink wouldn't impair them so significantly. In fact, there are lots of websites you can visit to read about how much alcohol people could generally consume and not be too inebriated to drive.

I am totally familiar with the law. I worked with many, many clients who have gotten a DUI.

 

I did not address or speak to impairment; only to the issue whether drinking and driving - at all - is baggage.

 

I do not believe that a ban against ANY drinking and driving to be baggage

 

As far as restaurants and bars, they routinely.

, as a matter of course allow people to drink beyond the body's ability to process to the legal limit. Nearly every restaurant and every bar.

[susankenny]

Amy, I've read this whole thread and sympathize with you. My understanding here is that you and your husband have been raised in alcohol free homes. You also have never had a drink personally. Is this correct? (I hope I'm not mixing you up with other posters that have shared here).

 

I think your question is very valid & I don't view you as being judgmental at all :grouphug: .  I think you are asking from what is your "normal" and your own life experiences, which is what everyone else is posting from as well.  If you consider this family to be trusted friends & you feel good about leaving your son with them normally, a glass of wine won't change that.  I would base your decision here on the relationship you have.  In future situations I would also base it on a trusted relationship. Do you feel the adults will care for your children & respect them when they voice, "I can't watch that...do that", etc.  Are your children comfortable in their home?

 

As for alcohol consumption, you can still talk to your kids about what your family chooses and why.  Exposing your children to other families that live differently will not conflict with your core beliefs. However, it will convey that you are able to be friends with people that are different from you though, a wonderful life lesson for your kids.

 

Good luck in whatever happens.   :)

[zoobie]

If one drink were enough to impair someone from driving, then restaurants and bars wouldn't be caught dead serving alcohol, as they could be held legally responsible if there were an alcohol-related accident. However, as the standard for driving under the influence is not "any amount of alcohol" in the blood but rather a legally stipulated amount, it is reasonable to assume that for most people, one drink wouldn't impair them so significantly. In fact, there are lots of websites you can visit to read about how much alcohol people could generally consume and not be too inebriated to drive.

 

But that's a personal comfort level thing. Logically, I know that I weigh enough to metabolize one drink and drive just fine. However, I am not comfortable with drinking even one drink and driving someone else's child. I wouldn't drive my own kids and usually don't drink at all outside the house if I'm driving unless I know I'm going to be there for a couple of hours. You can make a different choice for yourself and your kids. 

[KungFuPanda]

I'm surprised how many here think its appropriate to drink while caring for other people's kids, or to have alcohol at events intended for children (birthday parties).

 

OP I'm glad you are staying strong on your opinions here.

 

But nobody knows that the alcohol was served at the children's party.  This family was doing the OP a favor by watching her child because she was not there to pick him up at the end of the party.  At this point it's the family having a regular evening and decompressing after the noise and chaos that is a child's birthday party.

 

In my extended family, we don't drink alcohol at family events.  Adult events, only if no one with a known alcohol problem is present, and even then, it's responsible drinking and the focus of the event is not drinking alcohol.  No children are raised to think drinking is a sign of manhood. An occasional beer with pizza or a bbq is about it as people socialize.

 

In dh's family, every occasion is focussed around drinking.  I remove my children when the irresponsible ones get going...it really does imho no child a favor to see adults that drunk and frankly if I wanted to be around drunks I'd go to a bar.   Lately we've been hitting the ski slope on Christmas to avoid the extended drinking expectation...the cousins have turned 21 and now cannot be seen without a beer in hand at any moment in the family holiday get together -- just not something I want to model for my teens.

 

Thanks to the irresponsible drinkers around them, my teens have an up close and personal view of the health impacts. Thru their older friends, they've found out the legal consequences of violating the open container law, or driving while impaired after just one drink (that makes a bigger impact than a funeral, which is usually explained away as someone who was mixing drugs and alcohol, rather than admitting publicly that the problem is much bigger.) That way they can make a fully informed choice of their own.

 

I have been to adult parties where people are drinking socially and there is a sitter minding children in another room. The seperation seems to work well.  Children's parties where the dad is having a beer while grilling or the moms are having a glass of wine don't bother me; it's the ones where the underage teens are openly drinking that I avoid.

 

I think this is less about having your kids around alcohol and more about having your kids around irresponsible people.  Irresponsible people are going to make bad decisions.  They may overeat to the point of making themselves ill, or drive aggressively, or behave inappropriately in a number of ways.  Removing alcohol won't make them someone you want around your child.

 

My son had his 14th birthday on Monday and I had leftover jello shots in the fridge from a party in October, I let each of my kids have one.  Yes, we drink moderately, yes we will let them try things.  I would rather they do it in front of me, than sneak behind my back.  I really believe kids are likely to try something if their parents have forbidden it their whole life. I would be appalled if someone asked me not to drink when their kids are over.  My house, my rules, don't like it, don't let your kids come over.  We don't keep things locked up either. 

 

I grew up in a house where it was moderate as well, my dh does have a drink more often than I do, but I really don't care. 

 

Even though I am not on the prohibition side of this conversation and am absolutely defending having unlocked alcohol in my home, THIS makes me very uncomfortable. Did you inform the parents beforehand?  Is this even legal?  

 

Several of you have mentioned it, but this strikes me as so unbelievably culturally narrow.  This kind of restriction eliminates entire nations of people from being suitable to leave your children with.

 

Ah, but it makes a move to Saudi Arabia more appealing.  What . . . . WHAT?!?!

 

 

 

For the record, my kids had their first taste of wine during First Communion preparations so they'd know whether or not they wanted to forgo the wine during the actual event.  Most of the kids made a face and decided to skip the wine on the big day.  We've offered them tastes at home through the years, but they always decline.  

 

When I was a teen, I went to Germany for a TDY during fest season.  It was the young Americans who were exhibiting ridiculous inebriated behavior.  The Germans who were raised with alcohol freely available in their homes handled it just fine.  I wonder if their colleges are less . . . um . . . celebratory than ours for this very reason.

[Guest]

I am not concerned about losing credibility. I don't lie to my children or misrepresent things to them, and they know it. I'm a little insulted by that. 

 

Dh and I come from homes where drinking was non-existent. My home was not one it was super-preached against, but my parents didn't do it. Dh's home was one where it was very much condemned. We've gone to churches for years with people who never drink. This is the first time we've encountered this because we've been in very conservative circles, so I just wasn't sure how to go about handling it since we've never had to think about it or make these decisions before. 

 

I do understand coming from this background, because I did, too. My parents are teetotalers. I have never seen them so much as splash a little Sherry in the pot roast for flavor. Weddings, Christmas, New Years Eve...I've never seen my parents eat or drink anything at all that had alcohol as a component. Growing up, they also were not disposed to having us in company with anyone who drank, casually or otherwise. There were aunts and uncles whom I barely ever saw and this was part of the reason. (Other reasons: they smoked cigarettes, there were some divorces or children born out of wedlock, etc.) Retrospectively, it was a tremendous shame. 

 

I did not understand the realities of alcohol. I thought all people who drank alcohol were doing something bad, something that would make them unstable and strange. Of course, in my 20's and late teens, I began to realize that this was not always the case - wasn't even usually the case. The number of times I've seen an adult get sloshed at a party is infinitesimal. 

 

For my own kids, I want them to see normal use of alcoholic beverages. I also use wine in cooking on a regular basis. They see that eating Coq a Vin doesn't make anyone drunk. They see that adults may choose to drink a drink or perhaps two and then choose not to have any more. They see that adults may choose to not have a drink at all when it was one available option. They see that adults can drink an alcoholic beverage and not be drunk. IMO, it is much better for their future attitudes about alcohol to see this than the way that I grew up. 

[Haiku]

You can make a different choice for yourself and your kids. 

 

Well, yes, I worked that one out for myself. ;) However, I frequently see in discussions here people proclaiming that there is no way to drink any amount of alcohol and safely drive, and I feel the need to point out that the law as well as the experiences of countless millions do not bear that out.

[lexi]

We went to an 8 year olds bday party. Several of the parents were drinking quite a bit. It really bugged me. We don't drink and I didn't like the easy access to it. I was surprised at the alcohol because the host parents themselves don't drink. But they provided drinks for everyone else.

We wouldn't send our kids to someone's house alone if I knew there was access to alcohol in the home. I'm just not comfortable. Also my kids have extreme wheat allergies and that's where beer comes from...lol. So we avoid it for that reason as well. So the empty beer bottles sitting around made me nuts because of our allergies.

[Parrothead]

Even though I am not on the prohibition side of this conversation and am absolutely defending having unlocked alcohol in my home, THIS makes me very uncomfortable. Did you inform the parents beforehand?  Is this even legal?  

 

 

 

Perhaps a second reading of the post is called for.  She gave her own children the jello shots that were left over from a party last month. Not that she gave a bunch of children at her kid's birthday party jello shots.

 

One can legally give alcohol to one's own children in some instances. (Although I'm not sure how old that chart is.)

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

If one drink were enough to impair someone from driving, then restaurants and bars wouldn't be caught dead serving alcohol, as they could be held legally responsible if there were an alcohol-related accident. However, as the standard for driving under the influence is not "any amount of alcohol" in the blood but rather a legally stipulated amount, it is reasonable to assume that for most people, one drink wouldn't impair them so significantly. In fact, there are lots of websites you can visit to read about how much alcohol people could generally consume and not be too inebriated to drive.

 

I feel too impaired to drive after one, unless a good amount of time has passed.  My college roommate's dad an an alcohol allergy thing -- one drink could put him into the ER.  True, the law sets a measurable limit, but the way your or my brain reacts to ANY substance is hard to generalize.  And we haven't even touched on the whole weight/height/metabolism thing that might, but not always, come into play.

[MomatHWTK]

FWIW, our children have seen adults consume alcolhol and know that it is in the house.  But, as we have already established that we are "those" parents I am aware that others might differ in their comfort levels. So I would probably not consume alcohol in front of someone else's child unless I knew the parents weren't bothered by it.  Similarly, if I didn't have a feel for what types of shows or video games the visiting child was allowed access to- I would be cautious about what they saw at my house. 

 

 

As far as driving after any alcohol, I am in agreement with dad- drinks hit me fast so I have to allow some time to pass before doing anything even after one drink.  I don't think anyone who drinks socially is going to be terrified to take to the wheel after one drink just because a few folks on a homeschool board believe that one drink is one too many for driving.