What would you do...

[MomtoCandJ]

If your child's teacher (dd goes to Catholic school) sends your child to the office for wanting you? Dd's school celebrated All Saints Day today, another child was picking on dd so she wanted me. I go to the school to watch the saints (students) parade and see I see dd sitting in the office. I ask why she's in the office and the principle tells me it's because dd asked for me and her teacher sends her to the office for acting "like a baby". Dd is 4 going to be 5 in a month and is in kindergarten. Dd is a sensitive girl, feelings easily hurt.

While the festivities are going on, dd was holding my leg, talking to me while waiting for her turn in line for a game, her teacher said that kids at school don't hold their mommies at school and to get in line and not talk to me. Yet the other students are talking and not exactly in line (others were also talking to their parents).

If it wasn't for dd wanting to play the games with her friends I would have just left. I'm so torn about pulling her out, she doesn't want to go because of the teacher but she wants to so she has friends to play with.

[MomtoCandJ]

Oh and the people in the office sit and cuddle her when she is sent down because they know that's all she wants. A hug and some one to tell her it will be ok.

[Wilma]

Quite frankly, I'd not have my girls in a school like that.

 

My people attend a UMS school (so they go to a school two days a week and we homeschool the other 3, and everything works together) - their idea of existing is to partner with parents, equipping them to educate their children.  I think somewhere that's discouraging that connection and downplaying the very real and present feelings of a little bitty kid wouldn't fit the needs of my sensitive children.  And anyone who told my kid they were "acting like a baby" would not continuing in a teaching role for that kid.

 

I'm sorry for your girl and the hurt she had, and sorry that you're feeling conflicted and upset about the incident.

[NicAnn]

What would I do? I'd be freaking pissed that an adult called my kid a baby. The teacher would absolutely being receiving an in person meeting with me, that day or the next, along with the principle. I'd go as far as taking her out of her class. An adult does NOT get to bully a 4 year old. No way.

 

I want to punch that woman for your daughter.

[FriedClams]

Did the teacher reassure her, or was she sent at the first mention of wanting you?

 

Is there an existing policy about K students and this type of thing?

 

Is she staying with the class - socially, academically, endurance wise, etc. at 4?

 

Is she the youngest in the class?

[MomtoCandJ]

I would confront but I'm horrible at it and with pregnancy hormones all I wanted to do was cry. I'm going to talk to dh tonight to see what he has to say. I'm afraid though that he will go off in anger and cause a whole lot of other issues. Dd is a daddy's girl :)

[zoobie]

Asking for one's parents is within developmental norms at 4-5. Prolonged upset would be concerning and disruptive to the class, but certainly should be dealt with in a compassionate and non-demeaning manner by the teacher. The principal should be concerned that his/her teacher cannot handle developmentally appropriate behavior and resorts to name-calling and dumping the children on the office staff. I would demand a meeting with teacher and admin immediately. Is there another K teacher? Your daughter is on the young side for K, but if the teacher has questions about her emotional readiness for school, this is NOT the way to raise the issue.

[MomtoCandJ]

Teacher does not reassure. Teacher is in the process of being reprimanded for the way she treats dd. Dd is keeping up with the other students and she is the youngest.

[Heatherwith4]

I would not send my DD to a school like that, and I'd be as mad as hell that she was treated that way.

[elegantlion]

Calling a 4  year old a baby? An adult? Seriously. I'd want to know if it's school policy to demean the growth of a child or make fun of them for displaying developmental appropriate behavior and also if it was there job to not support a close child parent relationship. 

 

We had ds in private school for K and his teacher was a dream. No way would she have said that to any child. 

[MomtoCandJ]

There is no other teacher, a small private school. There are other students who ask for their parents but are at least a few months older then dd so I'm thinking she just doesn't like the fact my dd started at 4. (She met the old Michigan cut off of December 1st, Michigan is currently moving the cut off back to September so this year it was November 1st which dd doesn't meet but because dd had 2 years of Headstart, the school accepted her)

[Chris in VA]

What would I do?

 

HOMESCHOOL HER.

 

And never, ever settle for a teacher who is unprofessional, uninformed about child development, inappropriate, and mean.

 

EVER.

[klmama]

I would request a conference with the teacher without your dd present to calmly discuss the situation.  You need to know what she sees as your dd's issues, why she chooses to send her to the office, etc.  Is her intent to provide the child with a place she can cry without disturbing the other students, or is it to punish her for not keeping her tears in check?   

 

ETA:  Just read your updates.  I'm glad the teacher is being reprimanded.  The rest still applies.

 

Is this a 4 year old kindergarten, or is it a regular kindergarten?  If it's a regular kindergarten, your dd is probably a full year younger than many of her classmates, and her relative immaturity may be an ongoing problem for many years.  Even if she is academically advanced, emotionally she is still not as mature as the others are, and her younger behaviors will always seem out of line with the norms in that group, which often leads to bullying.  It doesn't mean that there's anything actually wrong with her, but when she is constantly compared to kids so much older, she will always fall short.  It might be to her benefit to wait for "school" kindergarten until next year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bolt.]

I would either be actively insisting that the teacher adopt a different demeanour towards her students (through school leadership, as well as directly), and insisting that if she is 'sent to the office' for "homesickness" that I expected to be called to pick her up. The office should help her get what she needs (mom) not just hold her like some odd kind of punishment.

 

Perhaps, in the meantime, going half days or half time would keep up with her friends without the separation anxiety issues.

 

Perhaps she is too young for the classroom setting. Meeting the cut off is not the ideal measure of actual readiness.

[AimeeM]

Dude. I would be pissed. Even if she were 5, and not the youngest in the class, I would be fuming. What adult calls a young child a baby for wanting their mom?!

[Sara in AZ]

That is so tough!! I have a just barely turned 5 year old DD who is a real momma's girl. She could have gone to kindergarten this year in our district (if we weren't homeschooling), but I know we would probably have ended up in your shoes. It breaks my heart to hear about a child of any age being treated that way by a teacher. 😢

 

Is there any other outlet for her to be seeing friends besides school?

 

I hope the situation gets resolved satisfactorily!

[Hunter's Moon]

I was called a cry baby in Kindergarten by my teacher and assistant teacher. I cried every day because at the ripe old age of five, I still wanted my mommy. Go figure. 

 

I don't have kids, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I would pull her from school, or if that is not an option, from that class. 

[Catwoman]

I would not have my child in a class with that teacher.

 

If she was the only teacher for that grade level, I would find another school, or homeschool her for the rest of the year.

 

It's only kindergarten. It's not like she will miss out on amazing educational opportunities if she's not in that classroom.

[maize]

The teacher was bullying your daughter. I would not leave her in the care of an adult who behaves that way.

[Bootsie]

I think a teacher would be out of line telling a kindergartener that she is acting like a baby is out of line.  I was in a situation of being a witness in a dispute between another faculty member and a college student when the college student yelled at the faculty member, "You are treating me like a five year old!"  I was so tempted to intervene and say, "Well, maybe that's because you are acting like a three year old!"  But, I bit my tongue and wouldn't even say that to a college student who was totally out of line with his behavior.  

 

It never ceases to amaze me how some "professionals" will talk to children.  When my ds was in fifth grade there were some problems that kept arising; we told ds to tell the school staff that he wanted us to be called the next time something came up and we had informed the school of this.  So,, the next time it occurred his teacher sent him to the office for us to be called and the secretary said to an 11-year old boy, "Wow!  You really are a girl aren't you?  You want your mommy."  That is one of the many reasons we now homeschool.

[RoughCollie]

I would be angry.  Your DD is only 5 years old, for heaven's sake!

 

When my DD was 6, she was in PS in 1st grade.  I took her to the doctor and returned her to school.  She asked me to walk her to her classroom.  The secretaries and principal immediately jumped in and told me not to do it because DD needed to learn to be independent of me!  At 6!

 

Bullhockey!  I told them that what DD needed was to learn to be more dependent on me -- and that they obviously didn't know my child very well.  What I said was true.  I was delighted that DD wanted me to walk her to her classroom, and that is what I did.

 

In your position, I'd have a meeting with the teacher and principal and spell out what I thought.  I'd also tell them that their attitudes are the only thing that makes DD not want to go to that school.

 

I can't believe how so many educators are blind when it comes to the tender psyches of young children.  Kids are not one size fits all.

[celticmom]

I would definitely be angry at the teacher's actions and attitude. If she is already in trouble I would do my best to make sure that she finds herself in even more trouble. In other words I would go full blown mama bear on her in the manner that I calculated to be the most potentially destructive to her career. Of course knowledge of my own temper on such an issue was part of why I decided to homeschool dd.

[goldberry]

I would be horrified and really REALLY angry.  I would state very plainly that a person that insensitive to a child's needs and reactions shouldn't be working with children that age. Period.  Your DD was basically bullied.  By the teacher.

 

I would be hard put not to get right up in that woman's face.

 

Whatever benefit your daughter is getting out of playing with friends is NOT worth that kind of treatment that could stick with her a long time.

[lllll]

..

[ChiMomNP]

My biggest regret with my DS is that when he was 5 years old, I did not pull him from his catholic school when his karate teacher (who was also his gym teacher at the school) pulled me aside after karate class and told me he saw my son's teacher bullying him. He was very concerned. The teacher clearly singled my son out for mistreatment. Once this starts, it won't stop. Now that she has been called out for it, she will find other ways to punish your DD.

 

You will regret it if you do not get her out of there. She will remember this. School should be a SAFE place. No adult should ever bully a child and calling a 4 year old a baby for wanting her mother when another child was picking on her... is bullying and frankly really, really bitchy. She is 4, it is only October, she was upset... perfectly normal. 

 

I'm 41. Sometimes when bad stuff happens in my life, I want my mother too. 

 

I'm sorry for your DD. Her teacher needs a slap.

[Wheres Toto]

That is awful.  I would definitely complain to the school and if I didn't feel like it was being taken seriously AND that the teacher would be able to treat my kid appropriately (and not take the reprimand out on her even in subtle ways), I'd remove from that school.

 

My oldest was 8 when I divorced her dad.  Joint custody meant she spent a week straight at her dad's house and I wouldn't see her.  She used to go to the nurses office every Monday that she was coming back to my house so she could see me sooner.   We all worked together - her teacher, the school nurse, and I - to make sure she felt as secure as possible and did not fall behind on work.  Nobody belittled her or mocked her for it at all.

[Luanne]

Your daughter's behavior is totally normal for that age.  My mother was even held out of school until she turned 6 because her parents knew she wouldn't deal well with being away from them all day before that.  4 and 5 year olds are still very very young.

[Ellie]

This would be my child's last day of school.

 

I would find other ways for her to socialize.

[Orthodox6]

This :grouphug: is for your daughter, from a stranger (me) who wants her to be happy.  Please deliver it, if you feel ok about that.

 

A four-year-old who wants her mother after other children pick on her is a normal four-year-old.  The teacher sounds ineligible for working with kindergartners if that is her response. 

 

Now that the teacher has been reprimanded, I would be worrying about her needling your daughter in small ways, "flying under the radar", as retaliation.  I seriously wonder about the value of continuing there.  Also, with that callous response from the teacher, the same kids may well target your daughter again, hoping for a repeat punishment (i.e. sent to the office). 

 

Are there friendly children for your daughter at your church?  If you are in a position to homeschool -- and I realize that not every family is -- could you homeschool her and find friends through a homeschooling group? 

 

On the one hand, I believe in children learning to navigate the world without being overly-coddled for every emotional bump-and-bruise.  On the other hand, I do not believe in leaving a child in a situation where belittling and insult are the norm. 

 

Here's the :grouphug:  for you, Melissa.

[jelbe5]

I am so sorry . . . to me 4 years old IS just a baby.

 

I agree with others . . . I would keep her home and find other ways to have friends. Hugs.

[DianeW88]

If she is four in a class of five year olds, she will be noticeably less mature.  Does the teacher spend a lot of time having to comfort her or deal with her on a one on one basis?  She may feel that she doesn't have time for that and could resent it.  If she has been reprimanded for the way she is treating your dd, she will now resent her even more.  It sounds like she didn't like your dd much to begin with...she'll like her even less now.

 

When I was in kindy...many moons ago...there was a little girl who acted (and most likely was...this was before the day of "cutoff ages") younger than the other kids.  She sucked her thumb (which I remember, because the teacher always pulled it out her mouth roughly), and whenever the girl would cry, she made her sit in the corner until she quit "acting like a little baby".  She often mocked her in a baby voice, too.  She regularly threatened to send her to the office and have the principal paddle her.  Yes, the principal did have a paddle hanging prominently on the wall...not sure he ever used it though. I was only five, but all of this stuck with me, and I resolved that I would NEVER cry in school, no matter what.  And I never did.

 

I have no idea what happened to the girl...but I know kindergarten was not a good experience for her.  Sad.

[Parrothead]

Well, my first thought is that you are paying for this service.  As a private Catholic school your daughter is more than a student. She is a customer.

 

Most private schools, and Catholic schools are no exception, don't want dissatisfied customers.  That causes a severe drop in income if too many are unhappy with the quality of the teachers.

 

I'd find out exactly what this lady's problem is and what the administrator is going to do about it. If the administrator isn't handling it effectively you can go over his/her head until you get some sort of satisfaction or pull your dd out. And, of course as this is a homeschooling board, you'll probably get a lot of advice to pull her out.

 

There are other ways to socialize a child than public or private school.

[Farrar]

I second everyone who is saying that it sounds like the teacher is bullying your dd.  It may be that there are issues where her being at the young end of grade is causing her to take more of the teacher's time and therefore there could be real issues that need to be addressed by the teacher, the principal, you, etc., but a child should never be called names by a teacher.  The teacher isn't making it any better, obviously.  I can't imagine leaving my child in that situation.  Especially when you're *paying* for the school (at least, Catholic school, so I assume you are).

[justasque]

If this teacher were a babysitter, would you continue to employ her?  I'm guessing not, and you wouldn't think twice about it.  

This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the teacher, and implies either a significant lack of understanding of age-appropriate behavior, and/or serious burnout and lack of caring.  Neither is acceptable, and neither is likely to change.  

I am usually one to encourage folks to give things a chance before making a major change, and I think many school settings can be good places for many children.  

But in this case, I'd pull her out immediately, explain to management why I was doing so, and be pretty insistent that I not suffer financially for doing so, as the teacher is clearly not up to doing the job in the professional, age-appropriate manner you had expected.

There are many ways you can help her to find friends to play with.  You do not have to put up with this to get friends for her.  Just about everything you get from school you can also find in other settings.  The longer she stays in, the more damage you'll have to undo once you pull her.  Don't wait.
 

[ChristusG]

She's 4! She still IS a baby! What the heck is wrong with that teacher? Four years olds want their mothers! I'd have her out of that place ASAP and I'd make sure they knew why.

[Incognito]

Are you home already anyways?  I'd homeschool then.  But I chose to homeschool for K anyways, so I'm biased like that.

 

I understand about the cut offs - ours is Dec 31st here.  My DS would have been a 4yo in K if I'd sent him. 

 

One of the benefits of homeschooling is that a child does not have to be as independent as young as they need to in school.  When one adult has a class of 15 (or more) kids, they need the kids to function more independently.  Different adults foster that behavior in different ways.  The way this adult is trying to do it is really negative and inappropriate.  I would not want that example to be the adult in my child's life for much of the day every day.

 

If you can't homeschool, I'd look into changing schools.  I know it sounds silly to change over "one little thing", but it really isn't.  It's a character issue on the part of the teacher.

 

[swellmomma]

I'd pull her out.  Even if you intend to put her back in for 1st grade, it is not healthy for her to continue with this teacher.  A teacher is a person of authority that these children look up to.  I mean how many parents who have had their kids in ps have not heard "mrs. so and so says blah blah blah" and it is the exact same thing you have always said but suddenly mrs. so and so said it so it must be true.  This teacher is name calling and punishing and bullying making your dd feel badly.  Essentially telling your dd she is less than and allowing other children to see this, which will translate to the kids starting to treat her as less than.  There is no way in hell I would allow anyone in my child's life to treat them that way.  If a family member treated them that way, contact would be severed.  If a daycare worker treated them that way, my child would be pulled and I would be reporting the incident(s) to the licensing board.  So why is it accepted as an "I don't know what to do" situation just because it is a school teacher?  Your child should be removed from the class immediately and a report filed with whatever superviasing body that school has. There must be a board or whatever that handles staffing, grievances etc.  It is unacceptable for the teacher to act like that and truth be told, the fact that the teacher is already in the process of being reprimanded for her treatment of your dd yet continues to behave like this tells me the teacher a) doesn't care what they say, she has it out for your dd for whatever reason and b ) I would be worried about escalation out of revenge for the blemish in her record as teacher in that school. 

[Little Nyssa]

I think I would give the teacher a short amount of time to totally change her ways. I'm glad she got reprimanded. Meantime, I would be checking out whether she is a lone bad apple, or whether this is typical for that school. That's how I would decide whether to pull DD out or not.

[Mom in High Heels]

Pull her out.  Indy went to a Catholic K, that cost me a fortune, and he had a terrible, bullying  teacher.  I tried to get him moved to the other K class, but the principal wouldn't let me.  At that point, I should have pulled him out and put him in another school, but I didn't.  I was working and at that point I didn't have the option to hs, but I absolutely regret letting him stay in that class.  I was not a good advocate for him.  I should have been.  Please take your baby out of there (at 4 she IS still a baby).  If you can't hs her, put her in a different school.  That is not a healthy environment for her.  Indy is in "6th" grade this year and still talks about how mean his K teacher was and how he's got such a great teacher now (flatter).

[Eagle]

I'm so sad for her! 4 is so little. There is nothing wrong with needing Mommy at 4.

 

I'm concerned that the principal knew she was in the office for "being a baby" and hadn't told the teacher that was unacceptable. I don't think I could trust that school to change and suddenly be a safe place for my child. The teacher is a bully and the principal is apparently going along with it.

[Trish]

If calling your 4-year-old a baby is the behavior you know about, I'd wonder what else was being said that you don't know about.

[MomtoCandJ]

Dd doesn't have school today due to inservice. The meetings are taking place at the diocese so the principle can do more for dd. None of the other faculty members have a problem with dd. I have a meeting the 5 to hopefully take care of this. I can't let dh handle it, he has already threatened violence (he doesn't handle anger well and people messing with his baby girl is the fastest way to set the man off)

[MomtoCandJ]

According to others who deal with dd, dd doesn't take any more time then the others. Dd is rather quite and shy so she doesn't like to draw attention to her self. Three days a week the young 5s come in for school, that's when the others notice dd's teacher getting short with her (and found out from other parents, the other students too). The young 5s class is 3 students, but two of them like to wonder and do whatever.

[NotSoObvious]

As a former kindergarten teacher, I will tell you that woman should NOT be teaching kindergarten! If she says that to you, I can guarantee she's saying worse to your daughter during the day.

 

If I had the means, I'd yank my kid out of that class so fast, especially if I was paying for it!

[zoobie]

Dd doesn't have school today due to inservice. The meetings are taking place at the diocese so the principle can do more for dd. None of the other faculty members have a problem with dd. I have a meeting the 5 to hopefully take care of this. I can't let dh handle it, he has already threatened violence (he doesn't handle anger well and people messing with his baby girl is the fastest way to set the man off)

Your DH threatening violence and your being concerned about actual violence is worrisome too. My DH would take a teacher's name-calling seriously, but that is an extraordinary, illegal reaction. Is everything okay at home? :grouphug:

[MomtoCandJ]

He has a flash temper, he hasn't hurt me (he did hurt someone in high school but has since learned to control himself). I'm more concerned about Michigan's law about cussing in front of women and children. That I know would happen and I've heard if actually enforced (the woman presses charges) the consequences are pretty steep.

When he gets angry, he takes it out on some innate object or goes out to target practice in the back yard.

[Luanne]

I would request a conference with the teacher without your dd present to calmly discuss the situation.  You need to know what she sees as your dd's issues, why she chooses to send her to the office, etc.  Is her intent to provide the child with a place she can cry without disturbing the other students, or is it to punish her for not keeping her tears in check?   

 

ETA:  Just read your updates.  I'm glad the teacher is being reprimanded.  The rest still applies.

 

Is this a 4 year old kindergarten, or is it a regular kindergarten?  If it's a regular kindergarten, your dd is probably a full year younger than many of her classmates, and her relative immaturity may be an ongoing problem for many years.  Even if she is academically advanced, emotionally she is still not as mature as the others are, and her younger behaviors will always seem out of line with the norms in that group, which often leads to bullying.  It doesn't mean that there's anything actually wrong with her, but when she is constantly compared to kids so much older, she will always fall short.  It might be to her benefit to wait for "school" kindergarten until next year.

 

She said she is keeping up with the other children, so making her wait another year is just going to frustrate her in the end.  I had the same issue with my daughter.  She was emotionally more immature than her classmates, but already ahead of them academically.  That is why I ended up homeschooling her.  It wasn't fair to her to hold her back just because she wasn't as mature as the other children.

[Little Nyssa]

Hun, taking it out on an inanimate object may not be so good either... do you mean he goes out to do some physical labor like yard work to blow off steam, or are you talking about breaking somebody's possessions?

[Catwoman]

I don't mean any disrespect, but if your dh has already threatened violence and you know that, at a minimum he would yell and curse at the teacher and school authorities, I think he might need some sort of counseling, as his reaction is beyond extreme.

 

OK, we all agree it was wrong for the teacher to treat your dd poorly, but that's no reason to yell, scream, curse, or think about doing her bodily harm. It just isn't. If your dh can't control his temper well enough to speak civilly with the school officials, that would really concern me.

 

I can understand being angry -- I would be livid, too -- but I can't understand not being able to control his temper to the point where you think he might get arrested for it. That's kind of scary.

[MomtoCandJ]

He does physical labor (like splitting wood for his parents). He has had counseling in the past, and he is on Celexa and Zyprexa for anxiety issues.

In Michigan even one cuss word can get you in trouble if charges are pressed. That's why I tend to deal with such things.