Drama Free Christmas, Too Much to ask?

[Amy in NH]

I told my husband if the entire entourage comes I'm spending Christmas in NM with my family ( which, by the way we haven't done in 16 years) and my oldest wants to come with me, I told her she could.

 

 

Do it.  I was going to suggest that you go somewhere else.  A trip to see your own family is a perfectly valid excuse for not entertaining them on Christmas.

 

[plansrme]

I have made it clear to my husband that his brother cannot come w/o his older daughter under any circumstance. I will not allow her to be forgotten by his "new" wife. (It is not uncommon for them to plan trips/events when she is with her mother.) I told DH they are all welcome for Spring break or another non-Holiday, but my niece MUST be with him.

 

If you really want drama-free, it might help to stay out of your brother-in-law's marriage.  Do you want the in-laws meddling in your marriage or offering advice and issuing mandates as to how you rear your children?  You also might want to keep in mind, before you make judgments, that you do not know what is really going all that is going on with BIL and either his first or current wife. 

[Danestress]

I've never planned anything 6 months in advance. :D

I know! Two months notice seems normal to me. But two months out is a good time to 'ask' not 'demand.' It seems to me that they woukd get a Yes from the DH and a no from the DW, so this is a marital issue.

[Plateau Mama]

I've never planned anything 6 months in advance. :D

We plan most of our vacations 12+ months in advance. If you want decent airfare at Christmas from our location you need to plan and start watching 9-12 months in advance.

[kbutton]

Whoa! This seems like quite an overreaction.

 

I think locking hubby out is an overreaction. I don't think the first part is in some circumstances (for the OP, maybe so). I know people who would very much exploit the witchy wife angle immediately and consistently.

[Danestress]

I think locking hubby out is an overreaction. I don't think the first part is in some circumstances (for the OP, maybe so). I know people who would very much exploit the witchy wife angle immediately and consistently.

I really don't agree. It would be better if he didn't give them a direct answer until he talked to his wife. But this is also his house. His children. Food he helps pay for etc. Why wouldn't a man be okay saying 'yes' to his own family visiting his own home? If that turns out not to be ok with the wife, he needed to let them know. I don't think that is disrespectful to the wife. I invite my my mother and sisters and assume DH is fine with it - and especially in his case when they stay at a hotel anyway. I think the OP is fine to say no. It is also her home and her vacation. But if the DH did anything wrong here, it was just saying yes without permission and then having to back track.

[kbutton]

We are far from a serious pack your bags marriage problem. I'm not going to throw my husband out because his mother is crazy and he won't deal with it. If that's his only major fault I find myself pretty lucky. If he invited her to live with us, then one of us would be moving out.

 

Did he mess up? Yes. Will I hear about it from his mother? Absolutely. He talked to my FIL and he is a reasonable man, he won't hold it against me. Her, yes, him, no. Bottom line is I'll get what I want for Christmas and if she holds it against me then DH can start traveling there with the kids w/o me.

 

Just a BTDT suggestion to the OP: you need a better way to get from point A to point B in these situations, or it will likely become a marriage issue. You can't keep dealing with each situation as it comes up. I started out thinking like you do, and it became an unsustainable way to work things out. I am not trying to sow a seed of doubt about your husband, just helping you realize that it will continually get less fun to meltdown and be the witchy wife.

 

In regard to the quote mixing me with the OP where someone suggested that MIL's anxiety means I have power in the relationship...FWIW, my MIL has always been weird, but it wasn't a real issue until we produced the only two grandchildren she'll likely ever have. It was a game changer. She tries to be accommodating and helpful, but she screws up those efforts through her own total lack of judgment (for example, she will contribute to dinner by bringing a meat dish 3 1/2 hours in the car without a cooler so that we get to weigh offending her with food poisoning; if we try to tell her what to bring that will be safe, she gets mean). She can't tell the difference between being helpful and shooting us in the foot. She almost gave my older son heat stroke one time by trying to protect him from the sun as a toddler (long story that shows how her fears over something far into the future can completely obscure real danger staring her in the face). She still doesn't think she did anything wrong. I darn well better have at least some power in the relationship because she has put my children in danger several times. I am the gatekeeper to her grandkids, and she knows it.

[Plateau Mama]

 

Now, I'm NOT saying you should have your MIL over, but I hope you are more flexible for your own children as they get older.  I can't imagine being able to make plans that far in advance.

 

I will never force myself upon my children. They will know they are always welcome. I will ask to come visit. Things will be different when they are grown. I won't have 3 children destroying my house every day. I won't be homeschooling. DH will be retired. Much different then telling a mom of 3 kids that you are coming and bringing 4 extra people 

 

 

 

And from his perspective, it's his mother.  He lived with her for 26 years.  He is used to how she is.  I'm not.  KWIM?  I don't have any doubts that he would tell her to take a flying leap if that's what I wanted, but I would never do that.  She is still his mother and I do my best to be fair about it.  It's not fair of me to tell him she can't ever visit or we won't ever visit.  Not saying that is what the OP is saying, but chances for visits can be quite limited so from his perspective he doesn't see the big issue.

 

 he is more than welcome to go see his mom as often as he'd like. He can take whatever children are available. All I'd like is them to ask me when is a good time? We told them when we were there in August we weren't coming for Christmas. I have no problem with her inviting us out after we say no, but if the answer is still no then let it be. BTW it was DH who said "no Way in hell an I coming back for Christmas".

 

 

in january, maybe you and dh can sit down and decide when and how often you want/feel obliged to have his folks visit.  we set up an every-other-year plan with my dad and his wife.  they come to visit us every other year.  on the even years, we try to go there.  because it is regular, it doesn't need to be as long, or as big a deal.  and there is no discussion, because every other year they come in June.  (dad and i mutually decided a non-holiday was better, as its less stressful). 

 

then the two of you can get on the phone with his folks and say that you'd love to see them in, say, June.  then, regardless of how it goes, at the end you can say, "that worked out so much better.  do you want to try same time, same place next year/year after next?"  or if you'd like, we could come to you, but money could be a problem. 

 

then you've communicated willingness, not exclusion, dh is meeting his perceived obligations, etc, etc....

and then any other time, you can say, "sorry that won't work for us but we're really looking forward to June.  i wondered if this year you'd like to meet us at disneyland?" 

 

being intentional will help save you from having to be reactive, and in this case that might just make it all easier.

 

hth,

ann

 you are assuming we are talking with rational people. We told them in the spring we were coming in August and  not for Christmas. We said DH could bring the boys in Feb. (I will stay home with my daughter who has school). Oh, and the Feb. Thing was my idea and I had to talk DH into it. I've said the entire entourage could come for spring break, whenever that may be. Every year we let them know when/if we are planning on coming, every year we get this game. I have hosted them for the last 4 years on little notice. So those of you saying I don't make an effort and always say no are wrong. I just don't want to do it this year. I'm tired, I just want to relax one year.

  You also might want to keep in mind, before you make judgments, that you do not know what is really going all that is going on with BIL and either his first or current wife.

 

Well I am very close to his ex-wife and his daughter. She comes and spends several weeks with me every summer. I will not allow her to be neglected and ignored when I have the ability. I may not be able to help her day to day, but I will not allow it to happen under my roof.

  

I know! Two months notice seems normal to me. But two months out is a good time to 'ask' not 'demand.' It seems to me that they woukd get a Yes from the DH and a no from the DW, so this is a marital issue.

when they demanded and it was the two of them I was going to deal with it I did not say no. I just physically cannot handle 6 extra people this year. I don't care who it is I cannot handle hosting 13 people this year. I just cannot.

[elfgivas]

OP, re assuming rational people:

 

well, actually, i was imagining my MIL and my dad's wife....

its about ME being rational, and knowing i am on the same page with dh, not about how they will react. 

rational is not an option for some of us, but it is for me... most of the time ;)

 

good luck!

ann

 

ps. if they do come, you could start the visit by saying that you are sorry they've come when you aren't up to hosting.  have a list made up of who will be responsible for the meals you will have together and who will be responsible for setting the table, and for the dishes and for cleaning up.  have them sign up.  then have dh enforce it.  you could even be "out" when its time for someone else to prepare a meal, or retire to your room to do school planning or give children baths (that would be my chocie) during clean up, because if you are there, sure as anything you will end up doing it.

 

i keep having flashbacks.... it can get better, and for your sake i hope it will.

 

[QueenCat]

Does he want them here? Yes, but because they are his parents and he feels obligated to have them here, not because he enjoys their visit. Like I said, when it was just them I was willing to deal with it. I'm not willing to deal with 6 extra people, on two months notice, 3 days after my children get out of school. I don't want my in laws spending $10k on last minute airfare. If they all want to come then they can give me 6 months notice like normal people.

 

Six months in advance would be extreme in my book. If anyone wanted me to commit that far in advance, they'd never get to see me. We cannot predict what will work for us that far in advance. Exceptions made for HUGE events like weddings. 2-3 months is more than "normal" in my book. In fact, we've told my parents that we won't decide what we're doing this year until early December. Normally, we do decide by early November but special circumstances with one child are requiring us to wait this time. Thankfully, they understand.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I think you and your dh need to talk and make a solid plan that allows you to see what family you want on a schedule.  We have experienced some less than desirable behavior from my inlaws over the years.  Dh and I finally sat down and decided to limit our exposure to them.  We no longer visit them at their home.  They are welcome to come here with advance warning.  We have turned them away when they show up unannounced!

 

He's on board with my family coming at holidays.  He has the right to ask for changes, as do I.  We also made a no travel rule on holidays.  Anyone can come see us, we don't go to them.  It's worked since we had kids and it avoids family being mad about who gets to see us.  No one is happy with that decision except us :-)  Oh well.  It's our family!  Years ago we tried to visit everyone and make them all happy.  No one was happy b/c our time at each visit was too short.  The inlaws have a large group of family all in one location.  We are the only ones not living on the same road.....so we don't go.  When we have gone it's awkward and we don't feel welcome.  So we decided years ago not to go even before the holiday.  It doesn't work for our family(dh/me/kids).

 

 

Heck, my dad complained the other day about only seeing us on Thanksgiving.  He never comes Christmas b/c my mom usually comes.  I told him if he wants to come I will bump her to after his visit.  He just has to ask!!!  He's not religious and wouldn't like our Christmas celebrating anyway.  But I am open to changing who's coming if they just ask.  Surprisingly, no one ever asks to change things. 

 

By being firm in what DH and I want together, it's easy to plan family visits.  I know what he accepts, he knows what I accept.  Without that communication it would be stressful.   And it's always up for discussion.  

[gardenmom5]

Not saying you should, but I haven't even made plans for Christmas/Thanksgiving.  We rarely decide things 2 months in advance.  With a doctor's schedule, we often COULDNT make plans more than a few weeks in advance...  6 months seems unreasonable.  2 months is fine.

 

dh just said last night that he was planning on thanksgiving just our family.  say what?  that hasn't happened in decades - maybe ever.   (though I had two children who let him know they wouldn't be at the extended family thanksgiving.)

 

 

 

I really don't agree. It would be better if he didn't give them a direct answer until he talked to his wife. But this is also his house.

 

  you are assuming we are talking with rational people.

as I was reminded last night - for some people, this is so far beyond their experience they can't comprehend it.  even neice-in-law has been helping mil with PT, and still thinks of her as some typical old lady. (nil used to work in a nursing home.  she likes old people.)  I came up with the insidious idea of getting my nieces to talk to their sil and let her know just what "mil/grandma" was really like before she was "an old lady".  all of my nieces chose to marry in a different state so mil couldn't attend their wedding.  such are the feelings this woman inspired in her progeny who had frequent exposure to her.

(and when mil told one groom that he was terrible, and she was going to demand the wedding be called off - we told him congratulations he passed the test and welcome to the family.   re: such is mil.  btw: his unpardonable sin was standing up to her.)

[MinivanMom]

*snip*

 BTW it was DH who said "no Way in hell an I coming back for Christmas".

*snip*

Well I am very close to his ex-wife and his daughter. She comes and spends several weeks with me every summer. I will not allow her to be neglected and ignored when I have the ability. I may not be able to help her day to day, but I will not allow it to happen under my roof.

*snip*

 

Yes, you have a crazy mil. Nobody disbelieves that. You don't need to tell us why you don't want to see them for Christmas or what you have done for them in exchange for bowing out of the holiday. You are a grownup with your own family. The fact that you do not wish to see mil for the holidays is reason enough. You do not owe anyone more of an explanation than that. In fact, it sounds like you are being much more obliging than most of us would be in a situation with boundary challenged in-laws. However, I do not think boundary challenged in-laws are the primary source of your problem.

 

*Gently* 

If your dh did not want the in-laws to come, if he swore after the last visit that he would not see them for Christmas, if you discussed it together beforehand and agreed that they were not welcome to come . . . and he still said yes to fil's request then you have serious marriage problems. I say this from a place of experience, because I have definitely btdt. At the time, I would never have admitted that I had a problem w/dh or my marriage, but I was wrong. Your in-laws cannot divide your husband's loyalties (or your family at Christmas time) unless your dh lets them. He is (probably inadvertently) fanning the flames of the drama.

 

*Very, very gently*

You are wrong about the situation with your niece. Unless there is some additional abuse you are not sharing, it is none of your business. You are crossing serious boundaries here. I understand that you feel protective of your niece. Perhaps her stepmom is an evil witch who purposely excludes her; it's a pretty common scenario unfortunately. However, you are not helping your niece by interfering and increasing the drama. You are throwing wedges between bil & his new wife and between niece & her step-mom by behaving this way.  Please stop. The best thing you can do for your niece (said as someone who has been in your niece's position) is to be a consistent source of love and support for her. It is not your place to do anything beyond that.

[fairfarmhand]

 

 

He's on board with my family coming at holidays.  He has the right to ask for changes, as do I.  We also made a no travel rule on holidays.  Anyone can come see us, we don't go to them.  It's worked since we had kids and it avoids family being mad about who gets to see us.  No one is happy with that decision except us :-)  Oh well.  It's our family!  Years ago we tried to visit everyone and make them all happy.  No one was happy b/c our time at each visit was too short.

 

By being firm in what DH and I want together, it's easy to plan family visits.  I know what he accepts, he knows what I accept.  Without that communication it would be stressful.   And it's always up for discussion.  

 

 

Family policy....we go noplace on Christmas. Period. We visit the week before or the week after but Christmas day is at home with our family.

 

We travel for TGving, but not Christmas.

[bettyandbob]

 

*Very, very gently*

You are wrong about the situation with your niece. Unless there is some additional abuse you are not sharing, it is none of your business. You welcome your ex-sil into your home for weeks at a time, but put stipulations on the new sil before she can come visit?!! You are crossing serious boundaries here. I understand that you feel protective of your niece. Perhaps her stepmom is an evil witch who purposely excludes her; it's a pretty common scenario unfortunately. However, you are not helping your niece by interfering and increasing the drama. You are throwing wedges between bil & his new wife and between niece & her step-mom by behaving this way.  Please stop. The best thing you can do for your niece (said as someone who has been in your niece's position) is to be a consistent source of love and support for her. It is not your place to do anything beyond that.

 

 

Where did she say exSIL came for weeks at a time. She said niece came for weeks at a time. She said she is friendly with exSIL, not that exSIL stayed in her home for weeks at a time. Lots of people host nieces and nephews for weeks at a time during school breaks. Nothing unusual. 

[MinivanMom]

Where did she say exSIL came for weeks at a time. She said niece came for weeks at a time. She said she is friendly with exSIL, not that exSIL stayed in her home for weeks at a time. Lots of people host nieces and nephews for weeks at a time during school breaks. Nothing unusual. 

 

She said, "I am very close to his ex-wife and his daughter. She comes and spends several weeks with me every summer."

 

I read that as both of them coming, but you're right. She may have meant that she is close to the ex-wife and niece, but just the niece is coming to visit. I was picturing a younger child based on her description of the situation.

[Tammi K]

In 12 hours I've gone from a nice quiet break (which I reall need, it's been a hard school year for me), cooking dinner for 7 for Christmas. (If decided to have cereal for dinner my mom wouldn't care, at all.). To potentially having to prepare a meal for 13.

 

I just want one year where I can do Christmas however I want.

 

I get that you feel you have to have the extra people in your home. They are coming and short of locking the door, there probably isn't much you can do about that. But, why do you feel like you have to 'host' them?

 

I'm asking seriously - no snark intended. You don't want them there so why would you drive yourself crazy worrying about the details. You don't want to cook and clean for extra people, so don't. If you don't make breakfast, surely they will figure out where the cereal is. If you don't make lunch, except for yourself and your kids, they will figure out where the bread and lunch meats are.  Make spaghetti for dinner and serve your kids.They can cook or find a restaurant.

 

It already sounds as if there isn't a good relationship and these people aren't a part of your daily life so why do you concern yourself with tending them instead of going about your business as you please?

 

Really, what is the worst that will happen?  You don't like these people anyway!

 

Again, I do ask this without snark.  I'm not trying to anger you.  I have a family that defies description. They are evil and antagonistic. My mother is the poster child for NPD. She is brutal and harsh and has left me and my children in tears on way too many occasions. We have lived half a world away - by choice -for most of my married life just so she would have no involvement. But, eventually even brief visits home, visits out of obligation, not love because that had long since died, became too traumatic and I told her, "No more!"  We walked away and haven't heard from her in 8 years. Sometimes, you just need to say 'no' with your actions.

 

I understand 'family'. I value it above all else. But, now, for me 'family' are those I live with and love on a daily basis. If you come to my home, uninvited, and plan to stay, you better be prepared to make yourself at home and get your own darn cereal.

[Plateau Mama]

I am on my phone so I can't easily quote, but yes niece is turning 15 next week. Her mother does not come. As for butting out her mother has thanked me repeatedly for standing up for her daughter. I won't go into details about the step-mom, other than to say my niece would rather have Cinderella's step mom than her current one.

 

I also he the impression you all think I'm young and newly married with small children. I've been married 16 years, and my oldest is 13.

 

Of the 18 Christmases my DH and I have had together we have spent at least 8 at their house and they have come here at least 6 or 7 times.

[Plateau Mama]

I get that you feel you have to have the extra people in your home. They are coming and short of locking the door, there probably isn't much you can do about that. But, why do you feel like you have to 'host' them?

 

I'm asking seriously - no snark intended. You don't want them there so why would you drive yourself crazy worrying about the details.

 

It already sounds as if there isn't a good relationship and these people aren't a part of your daily life so why do you concern yourself with tending them instead of going about your business as you please?

 

Really, what is the worst that will happen? You don't like these people anyway!

 

It is only my MIL I have issues with. My FIL is a gem. He could live with me and I would have no qualms. My BIL is fine as well, (ignoring how he lets his wife treat his daughter). I don't go out of my way to see him, but my husband loves him and we get along fine.

 

While I don't want them coming without warning. I also do not want to be rude. If they are here I will do my best to accommodate them. When they came in June I did exactly as you are saying. It was just a crazy week they chose and there was nothing I could do about it. I heard all summer how "We came all that way and you didn't have any time for us." When I reminded her that I told her it was a bad week, she said "well, that's when I wanted to come".

 

If they would call and say We'd like to come visit this summer, what is a good week for you? I'd give them some choices. The problem is I can tell them "any week but x or y", and she will always pick x or y just because I said she couldn't.

[hjffkj]

After 16 years this is still an issue?  It will continue to be an issue until your husband stops letting his mother walk all over him.  If I were in your shoes I would assume that come Christmas your in laws will be at your house given the past record its likely they will find a way there.  If that is the case, I would have the locks changed that week and not give your dh a key until after his parents leave.  If that means he chooses to miss Christmas with his immediate family because he chose hims parents who don't understand boundaries then so be it.   

[Plateau Mama]

After 16 years this is still an issue?

 

I wouldn't say still. It has only become unmanageable in the last 3-4 years. It used to be we'd tell her no and she'd mope for a bit and let it drop. In the last 4 years, as her mental state decreases, she just hyper focuses on whatever it is she wants and won't let it drop.

 

We did have an issue the Christmas before we were married. Long story short I packed my bags and told her I wouldn't be back if she was going to treat me like dirt. I told my husband (then fiancé) I was leaving and he could do what he thought was best. I knew (but didn't tell him), if he didn't go with me I would not marry him. He didn't miss a beat, he packed our bags and found us a hotel for the remaining trip and we did not see her again that trip, except for him to say goodbye. I stayed in the car. That solved our issue, until a few years ago.

[hjffkj]

I wouldn't say still. It has only become unmanageable in the last 3-4 years. It used to be we'd tell her no and she'd mope for a bit and let it drop. In the last 4 years, as her mental state decreases, she just hyper focuses on whatever it is she wants and won't let it drop.

 

We did have an issue the Christmas before we were married. Long story short I packed my bags and told her I wouldn't be back if she was going to treat me like dirt. I told my husband (then fiancé) I was leaving and he could do what he thought was best. I knew (but didn't tell him), if he didn't go with me I would not marry him. He didn't miss a beat, he packed our bags and found us a hotel for the remaining trip and we did not see her again that trip, except for him to say goodbye. I stayed in the car. That solved our issue, until a few years ago.

 

Fair enough, from your comments I got the impression that its been a long standing issue. I apologize for assuming.  In that case,  I think you and your dh just need to set clear guidelines with one another (not her at all.)  Ex.  Don't give her any impression of what the answer to her question is without consulting the other spouse first.  Or, if your family make plans 12 months or so in advance then as a family you need to both respect that and when she demands a visit your go to response be "Well we've scheduled our vacations for this year and will be addressing next years in (whatever month) so I will bring this up with (whatever spouse) at that scheduling time."

 

It seems important that you and dh figure out a strategy sooner than later rather than taking it as the issue arises.  Since her mental state is only going to continue to decrease.

 

Hope you guys can figure something out that will keep her issues from causing serious strain on your relationship as a couple.

[Plateau Mama]

Pretty quiet week on the MIL front, until today. This afternoon she started emailing my 11yo to come visit them, alone, NEXT WEEK. Yup, I'm going to let my 11yo fly 3000 miles, ALONE.

[bettyandbob]

Pretty quiet week on the MIL front, until today. This afternoon she started emailing my 11yo to come visit them, alone, NEXT WEEK. Yup, I'm going to let my 11yo fly 3000 miles, ALONE.

Do you get dd's email first? If my dd had her own account and could read it without me her email address would change to one MIL did not know--even though I had access to emails. There's no way I'd want dd to have direct contact with MIL. Me reading email after the fact and then having to give my opinion to dd is not acceptable.

[Plateau Mama]

A copy of all emails my children get are sent to me. It's just a matter of when I read them. (They go to a separate folder.)

 

I have no worries about the kids having email access to her. It not like they are going to run away and go see grandma.

 

Up until this last year my 11 yo absolutely adored his grandma. When they came for the last minute trip in June the poor boy saw the light. He still loves his grandma, but now he sees why we feel the way we do. My 13yo started having issues with her around 5 and my 5yo, he just loves grandmas pool and his cousin.

 

I'm not worried about this current ploy, it will pass. I just find it humorous that the she just won't take no.

[plansrme]

Oooh, I recognize this one!  It's the ever-popular, "I'm at war with one family member, so I'll lavish attention and gifts on another family member to (1) emphasize how angry I am at the one who is out of favor, and (2)  make the snubbed person jealous." 

 

If your MIL needs any tips, I can put her in touch with my mom, who possibly invented the practice.

[bettyandbob]

A copy of all emails my children get are sent to me. It's just a matter of when I read them. (They go to a separate folder.)

 

I have no worries about the kids having email access to her. It not like they are going to run away and go see grandma.

 

Up until this last year my 11 yo absolutely adored his grandma. When they came for the last minute trip in June the poor boy saw the light. He still loves his grandma, but now he sees why we feel the way we do. My 13yo started having issues with her around 5 and my 5yo, he just loves grandmas pool and his cousin.

 

I'm not worried about this current ploy, it will pass. I just find it humorous that the she just won't take no.

 

Oh, I don't your dc are going to run away. It's MIL who should loose the privilege of access based on such behavior.

[hjffkj]

Oh, I don't your dc are going to run away. It's MIL who should loose the privilege of access based on such behavior.

I agree with this.  If she can't understand how inappropriate what she did was then she should not be allowed to send her grandchildren e-mails. You could easily block her e-mail address on your child's account and simply explain to your child why her behavior has made you and dh not trust her ability to make appropriate decisions when communicating privately to her grandchildren so she may not do so until she earns that trust back.  And then inform him that he is free to call her or write her letters whenever he'd like

[Plateau Mama]

Oooh, I recognize this one! It's the ever-popular, "I'm at war with one family member, so I'll lavish attention and gifts on another family member to (1) emphasize how angry I am at the one who is out of favor, and (2) make the snubbed person jealous."

 

If your MIL needs any tips, I can put her in touch with my mom, who possibly invented the practice.

Thanks for the offer. I'm not sure she needs any tips.

 

Yesterday morning she emailed him asking what the kids wanted for Christmas. I called my husband and said I don't think she's talking to us. Then in the afternoon she invited him to Florida.

 

What she doesn't know is 1) I see all her emails and 2) he is probably starting school in the next couple of weeks and will no longer be available as he has in the past. Of course she should be happy about him going to school she's been demanding it for 5 year, but she will be upset we didn't consult her. ;-)

[Orthodox6]

Honestly, this sounds like a husband issue not a MIL issue.  She's just a symptom.

 

Sorry, it sounds very stressful.

 

If you have been married for a number of years, probably you have tried, more than once, to discuss this with your husband.  Your post hints that he has his own difficulties with his mom, and is accustomed to deferring to her, no matter how impractical or discomforting her proposals.  Professional counselors are very hit-or-miss in quality; nonetheless, I think it may help a lot to have you and him meet with somebody (and quickly, since holidays are near, airfare has been purchased, etc.). 

[Plateau Mama]

For you entertainment, a portion of the email my MIL sent to DH this morning. The grand opportunity she is referring to is her cousin and his adopted son will be in town. (She hates the child, remember her thoughts on blood lines.). DH and children are at camp this weekend, might be time for me to get involved. :-(

 

 

Please consider this. ( "son" invited us out there for Christmas, so I know he loves us.) It is a one and only grand opportunity for him to join family. ......... Please, say yes. We can call the airline and book it simultaneously.

 

“No†is so easy.

 

Please, please say yes.

Mother

[Seasider]

No is even easier than she thinks.

 

I'd be blocking her emails to your entire family until after Christmas.

[hjffkj]

ugg!  I would agree, everyone needs to block her from their e-mails and at this point if it were me I would be cutting all contact till after Christmas.  Once Christmas was done I would have my dh call her and simply say that she refused to respect our boundaries and wishes and because of that we were forced to make harsh boundaries we did not want to do.  Until she is able to respect our boundaries contact will be limited and only on our part.  any phone calls she attempts to make will be hung up or not answered.

 

It sounds harsh but with people like her its the only way to handle it if you want to get in under control.  You need to be one in charge which could take A LONG time for her to accept but eventually will or she'll just stop talking to you all together.  

[Parrothead]

For you entertainment, a portion of the email my MIL sent to DH this morning. The grand opportunity she is referring to is her cousin and his adopted son will be in town. (She hates the child, remember her thoughts on blood lines.). DH and children are at camp this weekend, might be time for me to get involved. :-(

 

 

Please consider this. ( "son" invited us out there for Christmas, so I know he loves us.) It is a one and only grand opportunity for him to join family. ......... Please, say yes. We can call the airline and book it simultaneously.

 

“No†is so easy.

 

Please, please say yes.

Mother

 

Sorry, I'd have to email back and remind her that your children will be spending Christmas with their family - you and dh and their sibllings.

 

This woman has mental issues.  If your dh refuses to put his foot down then you need to step up and be the good wife and deal with her for him. 

 

Tell her this wheedling has to stop and if it does not you will cut off contact with the children.  You've made up your mind about this year and if she doesn't stop there won't be a holiday visit next year either.

 

Stop playing games with this woman.

 

[PeachyDoodle]

ugg!  I would agree, everyone needs to block her from their e-mails and at this point if it were me I would be cutting all contact till after Christmas.  Once Christmas was done I would have my dh call her and simply say that she refused to respect our boundaries and wishes and because of that we were forced to make harsh boundaries we did not want to do.  Until she is able to respect our boundaries contact will be limited and only on our part.  any phone calls she attempts to make will be hung up or not answered.

 

It sounds harsh but with people like her its the only way to handle it if you want to get in under control.  You need to be one in charge which could take A LONG time for her to accept but eventually will or she'll just stop talking to you all together.  

 

I agree. Some people just don't respond to subtle. Or even not-so-subtle. This woman is a bully, and the only way to deal with a bully is to put your foot down. Hopefully once you get your message across she will back down and everyone can breathe easier.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this. It's not fair to you or your family. You said your FIL is great -- is there any chance of getting him to have a talk with her? Maybe he would be willing to keep a check on her behavior if he realized not doing so could result in him losing some contact with you all.

[Little Nyssa]

Oooh, I recognize this one! It's the ever-popular, "I'm at war with one family member, so I'll lavish attention and gifts on another family member to (1) emphasize how angry I am at the one who is out of favor, and (2) make the snubbed person jealous."

 

If your MIL needs any tips, I can put her in touch with my mom, who possibly invented the practice.

There is an actual name for this, it's called 'splitting.' It's what people with NPD or personality disorder do, set other people against each other. One has to be very careful not to feed into it by enjoying being the person who is favored at the moment.

[Lisbeth]

"Sorry, that won't work for us."  I am shamelessly posting before reading the whole thread (I will do that in a minute), but people need to be trained to ASK not just TELL you they are showing up. 

 

Also, of course they can fly into your city all they want.  That doesn't mean you have to host or even visit.

 

Now going to go read the thread. ;)

[Danestress]

Some times we just have to embrace the role of 'bad guy.' If it is that hard for your DH to do it, then you do it. "Dear MIL, we are not going to be having company for Christmas or the New year. This year is going to be just our immediate family. We are firm about this, so you need to make other plans.

 

Also, please do not continue to abuse the privilege of emailing my children by suggesting trips to them before getting permission from us. There is no way we would allow our daughter to fly to you alone at 11. As she gets older, you can ask US if we think that is possible. When she is 18, you can ask her directly." Love DIL

[Lisbeth]

what does your dh get out of having Christmas with these people every year?  does he have some fantasy of a "norman Rockwell family Christmas", you know the one he probably never had?  (but dreams of?)

 

 

I'd send a list of hotels and restaurants in your town so she can have her Christmas fantasy without your having to cook, clean, and prepare.  

 

your dh isn't saying "no" - he wants something more than he respects you.  you will have to decide what you are willing to put up with.  you will either go along, or put your foot down.   either way, you will deal with the results.

 

In some cases, dhs say NO  to the person least likely to give him the worst grief.  It's a weak position but common.  In those cases, you just have to be the biggest B.  Ugh.

 

In my opinion, wife and immediate family come first REGARDLESS of who gives in easiest, but I've seen many men not operate that way.

[Danestress]

In some cases, dhs say NO to the person least likely to give him the worst grief. It's a weak position but common. In those cases, you just have to be the biggest B. Ugh.

 

In my opinion, wife and immediate family come first REGARDLESS of who gives in easiest, but I've seen many men not operate that way.

That is a very good point.

[tex-mex]

It sounds like you, as a couple, need some third party - possibly professional - support and guidance on areas of extended family, values, boundaries, etc.

 

I agree.

 

The issue is not the MIL, but the dh not in agreement or simply communicating to spouse/family.  He is allowing her to be the fall-guy with this holiday hijinks.  I'm curious if he undermines her in other areas of the marriage???

 

[Susan in TN]

((Hugs))

I understand the stress - and how difficult it may be for your dh to deal with a mother like this. It runs deep. I always told dh to just make me the bad guy. It was fine with me.

 

If it's what you want to do, I'd just make plans to go to NM regardless of where anyone else may or may not be going.

 

(More hugs)

[Catwoman]

Stop blaming them for your marital problem with your husband.

You need to either pick this battle with him or accept the situation.

:iagree:

 

And it's time for her dh to choose between his mother and his wife, and lay down the law with his mom. FIRMLY.

 

I know she says her dh is otherwise Mr Wonderful, but a wonderful husband does not subject his wife to this level of stress. His mom is clearly a wackadoodle and it's time for him to grow up and stand up to her.

 

This whole situation is ridiculous.

[gardenmom5]

 

 

until this last year my 11 yo absolutely adored his grandma. When they came for the last minute trip in June the poor boy saw the light. He still loves his grandma, but now he sees why we feel the way we do. My 13yo started having issues with her around 5 and my 5yo, he just loves grandmas pool and his cousin.

I wish my sil's dil would figure out mil.  she thinks we're all terrible towards her.  she's *completely* clueless.  and frankly - it's starting to get tiresome.

 

 

 

. I just find it humorous that the she just won't take no.

some people don't know the meaning of the word - or it won't even register in their little heads.  (bless their dear little hearts.)

 

Oooh, I recognize this one!  It's the ever-popular, "I'm at war with one family member, so I'll lavish attention and gifts on another family member to (1) emphasize how angry I am at the one who is out of favor, and (2)  make the snubbed person jealous." 

 

If your MIL needs any tips, I can put her in touch with my mom, who possibly invented the practice.

your mother most certainly did NOT invent the practice.  my grandmamma was engaging in it before your mother was even born! ;-p  it really irked her it didn't work on me.  I was such a spoilsport.

"if you don't treat me better I"ll cut you out of my will"

go ahead

"if you don't treat me better, I'll cut you out of my will"

I thought you already did.   (cut to fuming grandmother, who never tried that line on me again.)

 

I agree. Some people just don't respond to subtle. Or even not-so-subtle. This woman is a bully, and the only way to deal with a bully is to put your foot down. Hopefully once you get your message across she will back down and everyone can breathe easier.

or even "in your face - bluntness."   mil . . . . "no" is not in her vocabulary.

In some cases, dhs say NO  to the person least likely to give him the worst grief.  It's a weak position but common.  In those cases, you just have to be the biggest B.  Ugh.

 

In my opinion, wife and immediate family come first REGARDLESS of who gives in easiest, but I've seen many men not operate that way.

I'm well aware of these games, the OP is not.  yes family comes first, but the husband says he doesn't want something, but gives in to his mother anyway.  first thing is to respect his wife and to stop the caving in.

[Susan C.]

I went through a long term similar situation. I finally succeeded in setting up ground rules to visiting us. It was rough, but now since everyone knows where they stand, it works. It took me saying that the party could come whenever they were demanding to come, but we just might not be here.

 

1) Before you visit me, you have to ask (and not demand by a certain date) what dates work for our family.

2) You cannot bug me every day about it, nor put guilt trips on me about it.

3) If the planning gets ugly or stressful, then you can't come.

 

 

[MomatHWTK]

I think your DH is probably doing the best he can in a very difficult situation.  Lots of people have a hard time saying "no" to the person who brought them into the world.  Keep communicating and helping one another through this. 

[Hakg]

As I've talked about my MIL can be very controlling. She can't take no for an answer. If you will remember she came out in June with a weeks notice even after I told her it was a bad week and could she come two weeks later.

 

Yesterday she calls and says they are coming here. Fine whatever, sucks but I'll deal. Then she calls back that she wants to bring his brother and his family as well, arrive on the 23rd, leave on the 28th. HELL NO! But of course my husband won't tell her that. In 12 hours I've gone from a nice quiet break (which I reall need, it's been a hard school year for me), cooking dinner for 7 for Christmas. (If decided to have cereal for dinner my mom wouldn't care, at all.). To potentially having to prepare a meal for 13.

 

I haven't read the other posts, but we have had similar issues with in laws in the past, especially around Christmas. My MIL does not accept 'no' either.  To avoid any issues around Christmas, and to make it a happy occasion for *my* family, we go away each year.  I have to book well in advance with it being Xmas, but the great thing about it is that when we are asked what we are doing for Christmas, I can say, 'we are going away'.  We have done this for about 6 years now.  MIL/FIL have stopped asking what we will be doing for Christmas now, they just accept/assume that they will be minding our dog. :laugh:

 

The only negative, is that we don't get to see my side of the family for Christmas either, we see them in the new year instead.

[Plateau Mama]

I think your DH is probably doing the best he can in a very difficult situation. Lots of people have a hard time saying "no" to the person who brought them into the world. Keep communicating and helping one another through this.

Thank you. He is trying. We had a good chat this morning and he has "seen the light" and he thanked me for helping him see what she is doing.

 

There will be no traveling by any member of this family before Feb. If she keeps up the shenanigans there will be no trip in Feb. and I will block her from contacting the children.

[WishboneDawn]

Thank you. He is trying. We had a good chat this morning and he has "seen the light" and he thanked me for helping him see what she is doing.

 

There will be no traveling by any member of this family before Feb. If she keeps up the shenanigans there will be no trip in Feb. and I will block her from contacting the children.

I'm glad you're helping your husband. He sounds like a very good man.

 

My mom is a great mom generally but does have some issues around boundaries and negativity and there are times that even though I should be the one dealing with her my husband will step in and act as a buffer.

 

It's easy to know what your husband should do but he has a whole lifetime of conditioning by his mom and he is a work in progress, as we all are. He'll slip up again and cave to her when he shouldn't but it sounds like you'll be there to help him through it. He's lucky to have your love and patience.

[Impish]

Oh, lordy. You could be talking about my mother or MIL.

 

I've gone through similar problems w/my dh.

 

Thankfully, MIL generally ignores us. Her church, friends, convicted sex offender brother, former students, all rank ahead of us, as far as who she chooses to spend her time w/. Have at it, I say!

 

Unfortunately, it does hurt Wolf.

 

Really, counseling will help. Find a counselor that specializes in addictions, and in 'leave and cleave'. You don't have to be religious, but the 'leave and cleave' aspect is something that SHOULD happen in every relationship, regardless of if/what any spiritual beliefs there are. When you grow up, get married, have kids, your priorities should leave Mommy and Daddy and transfer, exclusively, to the spouse and children. Period.

 

MIL isn't the matriarch, no matter how she plays it.

 

And if she shows up anyways? What happens if you don't answer the door? Just ignore her banging, carry on w/life? Just b/c she knocks doesn't mean you have to let her in.

 

Easier said than done, I know, b/c I've had the same chat w/my dh.