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Choosing the order of subjects in a day...


violamama
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I did a little search through the archives because I'm sure there are helpful threads out there... but I failed to find them.

 

Can anybody point me to their reasoning on what order they do things with younger kids?

I would love in particular to hear about research or philosophies regarding scheduling within the school day. Why do you do things in the order you do them?

 

FWIW, here's our current order of operations:

1. I've started with the group stuff because we're already sitting together at the breakfast table first thing: Bible & FLL

2. Then we've been doing Math. It feels good to check off the pages.

3. CC stuff

3 1/2. Lunch

4. We've been following it with SWR, but as it's our longest and most difficult subject maybe it should be first.

5. SOTW or whatever fun stuff I actually get to, like Rosetta Japanese.

6. Read-alouds

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In general, I decide what we will cover in each topic each day (what and how much), while DD is given latitude as to the order in which to do each subject, unless she waffles around about deciding, then I'll pick for her. Her latitude is limited, however, usually by my availability to her, so that we get all the things that require me working with her done, and leave the independent work for later (or vice versa).

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The younger the kids are, the less than can accomplish in the afternoons. Math that takes 45 minutes in the AM can take 3 hours in the PM--totally not worth it. So at young ages I always tried to get whatever skill learning was most difficult (math, reading acquisition, or grammar) finished first thing in the morning after breakfast and devotions. Then everything else fell into place--science, history, art, nature studies, religion, the other skills were much more easily accomplished in the later parts of the day. Instead of having a fixed schedule I had a routine, and I kept a loose eye on how many of each type of lesson we finished per week. That way I knew whether we could afford a full day of science, for instance, or some other rabbit trail type thing.

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I do youngest to oldest for each subject.

 

So our day goes a little like this (for 3-4 days a week, the other 1-4 days a week are just more random lol):

 

Heres a "perfect" day:

 

Breakfast/Mommy Quiet Time (Mom needs time to figure out she's actually alive and walking around, I am *NOT* a morning person)

Eve-Reading/Pre-Reading

Chaos-Speech Therapy/Language Skills

Atlas - Reading

Morning Tea/Mommy Quiet Time

Eve-Maths

Chaos-Maths

Atlas-Maths

Lunch/Mommy Quiet Time

Afternoon- Unit Studies/Play all together with break for Afternoon Tea/Mom Quiet Time

Dinner/Family Time

Free Play

Bed

 

What actually happens:

 

Breakfast: Kids refuse to eat, Eve screams over getting her injections and hides, kids fight, I break them up, Atlas argues with Chaos, I break them up, someone spills their breakfast, I clean it up, etc. I try to go "wake up" but continuously am bothered by kids

Do reading, being interrupted by other kids between & during teaching

Do Maths, being interrupted by other kids between & during teaching

At some point, slap random stuff down and pronounce it morning tea/lunch/afternoon tea.

Look at unit study and pronounce it interesting, but so not going to happen.

Hide in bathroom for 2 minutes of peace.

At some point during the day, find myself quoting really random, weird things "Chaos, no! not that bone, it has dog poop on it....go find another one and bury it in the sandpit"

Finally get to sit down 2 minutes before DH gets home when kids decide to play in the garden. DH comes home, notices me sitting down and says "so I guess you didn't get anything done today"

Fall asleep dreaming of revenge to DH.

:leaving:

 

Okay, well thats not what happens all the time, rofl, but what happens on the really bad days....which today is turning out to be.

 

Must go, little child having a tantrum. :huh:

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1. Bible

2. Math (Sometimes ds2 does handwriting while I teach ds1 his lesson)

3. Language Arts (This is probably the hardest part of my day as I have to go back and forth between the two boys. Ds2 needs me to sit with him to do FLL and listen to him read, but ds1 will let his mind wander and not get much done if I don't keep checking on him. He does spelling, handwriting, and Easy Grammar on his own and I usually do Primary Language Lessons with him.)

4. History (together - We do this before lunch if we can, but sometimes math and LA drag into lunch and then we move it to after lunch)

LUNCH

5. Science (together)

6. Quiet reading time (30 min. to an hour of assigned and/or free reading) - usually I am completely exhausted by this time - this pregnancy is taking a toll on me!

7. Outside play time

8. Any computerized programs - currently ds1 is doing VP Old Testament/Ancient Egypt and both boys are doing a free trial of Dreambox. They love it, but I can't see us paying for a subscription. We only have VP because the grandparents paid for it as a birthday present to ds1.

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I've only got one school aged child so far. I'll likely be modifying my method when I have to teach multiple children.

 

I've broken down everything into small chunks (for example, Bible is broken down into reciting past verses for retention, copywork using the current verse we're working on, Bible reading, and devotional). We alternate picking what "chunk" to do next (from all of the subjects). The small chunks makes sure that we're not spending any big lengths of time on something if the motivation is lacking. Alternating who gets to choose ensures that I can get at least one of the meatier subjects (the main phonics lesson and math exercises at this point) covered in the morning when his attention span is longer.

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We start slow in the morning. I'm also not a morning person so I need time to sit with my tea, have breakfast and wake up.

 

My kids have tables side-by-side with space in the middle for me to sit, so I can keep an eye on both at the same time.

 

My son does independent work - math puzzles, reading comprehension, spelling (except the test), handwriting, reading - while I work with my daughter. She only does 1 Math Mammoth page, 1 "fun" math page, 1 HWT page, some phonics, some games to cover math or phonics. My son is often interrupting, even though he has a bin to put anything he needs extra help on.

 

Once my dd is done, she plays on the computer, or with play-doh, wipe-off books, whatever. I switch to working with my son on the things we do together - The Wand (although he'll have read the book on his own), MM, BA, and anything else he put aside.

 

Theoretically this would take up the morning until lunch. After lunch we do the more project based stuff together - art, music, Jot It Down. We do Science, History, Geography, field trips on Tuesdays and Thursday, where we only do a brief amount of math and language arts, so that we have the whole day.

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I've thought about this a lot during the past two years. Ultimately, I like to get the most important subjects completed first. I also like to start off with the calmest subjects. If I get DD wound up right off the bat, there might not be any way to reel her back in for the day.

 

Here's what we do.

 

Breakfast

Reading

Math

Spanish

Science

History

Art

Lunch

 

We do not do these subjects every day...usually just four, but this is roughly the line up. Science and history may get switched around, depending on the day's activities. Whichever has the most elaborate activity goes last.

 

ETA: I forgot about handwriting/copywork. That just gets thrown in whenever we have a light day now.

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We have a pretty set-in-stone routine b/c of my SPD kiddos' needs. Every morning, after chores, music practice, outside time/free time, and snack, we have group time. (This is when we do Science, History, Geography, Art, etc.) After group time we have more free time, lunch and quiet time, followed by individual seat work.

 

Punk starts with his mom-intensive items while Sister does independent work and Bug has free time. Then I give Punk an independent assignment while I go over math with Sister and Bug does a few independent activites. (Usually fine motor skill related) Once Sister is working on her math I am able to start Punk on his math and turn my full attention to Bug. I can have Bug finished by the time Sister is done with math and then complete her mom-intensive lessons with her. (All English is mom-intensive, Latin is somewhat so, and math is very much so for Bug and half and half for the other two.)

 

The kids have free time from when they finish until chore time. Usually they watch something after chores until supper and then after supper we do read alouds, educational games, and memory work.

 

I chose the order of subjects to allow me to juggle one on one instruction with the kids. Punk is most likely to get frustrated with the writing requirements of his English work and so if I can do these with just the two of us I can keep his anxiety and frustration from being fed by his interactions with his siblings. Bug does his best work after he has bored of playing Legos during quiet time so by extending is play he comes to me less likely to be distracted by his desire to build Legos. Sister works best when she has a deadline so knowing that she needs to get her math done before we start her English helps, but she also knows that she can finish it on her own time so it isn't an anxiety producing situation.

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We do Bible and history read-aloud during breakfast (I eat before they come down). Then I let my oldest work on handwriting and spelling and reading while I start with the youngest. Youngest does a very short reading lesson IF he wants to, then I do reading, math, and handwriting with my K'er. I let younger two go play, then I work with oldest on "mom subjects", usually starting with math. I let him choose the order sometimes, or I'll choose the order and alternate between heavy writing subjects and mostly reading subjects. When I'm done teaching him, he does independent work while I go read aloud to little ones. Then my part is done!

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We focus on skills in the a.m. and content areas in the afternoon. The reason is my kids are sharper in the a.m. and things like math and grammar make sense to them in a way that they don't in the afternooon- they are tireder and ready to zone a bit. They are more linguistically oriented than symbolically oriented so if we get things like math and latin out of the way right off, they feel like the rest of the day is a breeze.

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For my younger 3 (4th, 2nd, 1st) we start with music practice/lessons and math. Frustration is less likely when their brains are fresh and they have a more positive attitude. Depending on how fast they finish with math, they also go on to handwriting/ETC/English (grammar)/Latin. These are things they can do primarily on their own while I rotate through music lessons.

 

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We have no real order of things in a day. :lol: But we do always start with phonics for DD b/c it's the only way there won't be a fit about it. I know b/c we've tried it elsewhere in the day and it was an epic fail. Generally, we do things in whatever order I feel like doing them. The older boys know what to do and do it as they choose it.

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Below is generally how our days go. Just add "ish" to all the times. :lol:

 

6:30-7:00 I get up. The kids wake between 7-8 (some days DS10 wakes earlier to go jogging w/DH).

8:00 chores (all four of us)

8:30 breakfast, directly after which our group subjects begin

-----morning meeting

-----conversational Spanish

-----living math of some kind

-----FLoop (loop of fun extras we would never get to if not on the schedule)

-----Writing Workshop (incorporates IEW, ViE, etc. and ties into content subjects)

-----history/geography

-----science and/or nature study

-----art (I get them started on a project, then put on music while I make lunch and eat mine.)

12:00 lunch & lit (I read while they eat.)

12:30 one-on-one with DD (She goes first because her BFFs get home from school at 1:00. DS10 usually does independent work during this time.)

1:30 one-on-one with DS10

2:30 one-on-one with DS7

3:30 tea and poetry

 

For their one-on-one time, I let the kids pick subject order.

 

I arranged our schedule so that we do group/content subjects in the morning and individual subjects in the afternoon. I realized that I need physical energy for the fun stuff and to handle them (patiently!) as a group, but I primarily need mental energy for the skill subjects, making them perfect for the afternoon, when I just want to sit still and rest. I want quiet at that point, and I'm out of physical energy. Sitting and doing work one-on-one with each child is actually quite serene.

 

By treating content subjects as group work, I can teach broadly, as skill level does not matter as much for these subjects. Everyone takes what they can and produces according to their own age and ability. This is the fun stuff. No one wants a break from science experiments, history reading and activities, art projects, etc. Then, because each child gets my full attention during their individual time in the afternoon, there is no lull in the pace of their work, no fidgeting while waiting after being told to hold on while I explain something to another child. In my experience, that is when you lose them. Simultaneously teaching the same subject to multiple kids on different levels is a breeding ground for distraction here. You can actually watch it snowball into complete mutiny. When I am sitting right there with them, one-on-one, they are much less distracted. My constant presence keeps them on task, although I do not necessarily have to be interacting the entire time. I will teach a bit and then they work on something. But I stay there, sipping tea and reading or cruising the boards or making a grocery list. The important thing is that I am there and at the ready.

 

This switch has also cut down on interruptions of one-on-one work. By the afternoon, all three have generally had their fill of my attention/involvement. If I try to do one-on-one in the morning, not only is my energy shot by afternoon, but they seem to crave my attention and interrupt. Trying to teach the same subject at three different levels simultaneously was a recipe for misery here, for all concerned. They were distracted and I was frustrated, which made me unpleasant. Because they have been learning all morning and now have freedom to play, they are happy for a break and wander off, not needing me. Seems like before, if I tried to do one-on-one in the mornings, they wanted me, needed me, were bored or whiny.

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We have 4 things that we do each day--Memorization, Spelling, Math, History, Writing. Here is our schedule.

 

AM

Memorization

Spelling (dd8)

Spelling (ds5)

Math

 

Lunch

 

History

Writing

 

 

Spelling and math are the subjects that require the most focus for my dd, so I want to do those first thing in the morning before we get tired or distracted. We start with memorization, because it is a fun and easy way to get started together (both kids). Then I do Spelling first thing, because writing is difficult for dd, and I want to space out Spelling and Writing as much as possible. I usually do History right after lunch, because ds5 needs a nap, and reading to him puts him to sleep. Then we do dd8's Writing while ds is sleeping. I do Spelling for ds5 between dd8's Spelling and Math in the morning to give her a short break in between.

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We do various read-alouds at breakfast -- some rotating selection of Bible, hymns, poetry, science or nature books, history books, chapter from literature. It varies.

 

After breakfast, while I'm cleaning up and getting the babies ready for the day, the older kids start their reading. If it's a math test day, I have DD do that first. When they finish reading, they can move on to something else that's independent -- cursive practice, copywork, random worksheets for the portfolio, math if they don't need me for it. . . Whenever I have a chance, I will sit down and do one-on-one subjects with them, no set order but whomever it's convenient to work with at the time, and I'll do group subjects like history or science when I have a chance, usually after the one-on-one subjects.

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I'm really enjoying these responses, especially those with insight into your thought processes. Thanks again.

 

This is giving me some nice ideas for switching things up a bit. I think I may move up the writing/phonics to earlier, but also put some of the "fun" add-ons in the earlier part of the day instead of always leaving them to last. I may in fact make Math last. With the exact number of pages/problems to do it's a nice concrete ending and it really bothers me if I don't get it checked off our list.

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I have a board with all of the subjects we need to complete on any given day (the board is for a week at a time). DD and I take turns choosing what subjects we do. It's never in the same order every day, though there are certain subjects that get pushed until the end. As subjects are completed, their tags are removed and put in a storage cup.

 

Have a set schedule at set times does not work for us. I would fail miserably at it. I've found the board works great. It needs some refinements, but we'll keep using it until #2 gets folded in. Then I'll have to figure out how to modify it to accommodate 2 kids.

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...

I would love in particular to hear about research or philosophies regarding scheduling within the school day. Why do you do things in the order you do them?

 

Just found this thread ... I thought I'd toss out what I know about the science on performance. We ourselves change up the schedule regularly depending on what causes fewest meltdowns ...

 

The general suggestion is to hit analytical/complex tasks earlier in the day. As is clear from the thread, what this is varies per child esp. in the early elementary years. I think as they get older it tends toward instrument practice, math and also analytical thinking on other subjects.

 

Writers sometimes suggest turning out drafts later in the day, and revising in the AM.

 

People who are working at high levels apparently tend to work in 2-to-3 hourish chunks, I hear -- this is less well-substantiated in my mind than the other stuff. Obviously this isn't a good approach for elementary kids, but I have wondered if it might be a goal for upper high school children aimed at college or at high-level performance/arts.

 

If you can manage a 1-hourish nap in the afternoon, this really ups cognitive performance and memory later in the day. Starting with a 1-hour nap may muck up your sleep schedule; if this is feasible for you and you want to try it, start with 15 to 20 minutes.

 

Also I gather mamas of boys esp. have seen improved performance after AM exercise.

 

... just some thoughts ... I am dreaming of the time when I can incorporate the 1-hour nap!

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In our house, whatever gets done first is sure to get done. For that reason, we usually do most important skill subjects first and since my oldest is still in 1st that means reading/phonics is first and math is second. Sometimes it switches if we are really behind in something else. Or if all we did was the reading/phonics the day before, we do math first and then phonics (which is just practicing reading at this point, but still very important for him as he is just coming into his own with reading).

 

So, generally, our day goes like this....

 

Breakfast - I try to read something during breakfast, either our read aloud or oral FLL lessons or something.

Bible

Reading/phonics for the K'ers and then the 1st grader

Math for 1st grader

everything else later, which for us is not a lot, but sometimes WWE and sometimes science. Our history is included with our Bible this year.

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We had a great day today.

 

1. Bible during breakfast wrap-up as always

2. FLL right after, for which my older boy does all the written enhancers lately. And now, in our experiment with scheduling that leads us right into more writing, which continues with our phonics/spelling SWR, flashcards of our current list (only sounded out one of about 25 words!!), 10 new words (only one was challenging at all!!!), then story writing (new to us). It's stretching him because by then we had spent a solid 45 minutes (with a break in the middle), but he was really excited to get his own words out and to be free to make it about absolutely anything.

2 1/2. My younger also did more writing today, which was fun to see. He's tracing the CC Prescripts books and loves it. So far.

3. Math- older voluntarily did 4 pages rather than the minimum 2

4. We grew some crystals for science (dollar store- hokey, but satisfying)

5. We played at a park for an hour for PE (IT WAS 75 DEGREES IN PORTLAND IN APRIL!! sorry for shouting...)

6. We played with bendaroos & endless legos and they had to put away a thousand tons of laundry. Life Skillz.

7. Husband finally opened our Snap Circuits set while I taught in the evening. That's "schoolish", right?

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We do breakfast/bible/read-aloud all in one

 

Even after years I have not found my groove (it very well could be we are still adjusting to a new state)

 

Dd7 needs lots of one on one time while dd11 & dd14 need very little instruction anymore.

 

I try to make sure everyone gets an hour of me, and I try to combine things where I can

 

I also try to carve out sometime for dd4 though nothing formal right now as she is more than ready for Kindy yet legally would t make the cut off this fall so we are taking our sweet time.

 

I do like to start with reading for dd7 this is her weakest area.

 

I am hoping once we are more settled I can have a more organized day, and stop changing everything up all the time on myself.

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Just found this thread ... I thought I'd toss out what I know about the science on performance. We ourselves change up the schedule regularly depending on what causes fewest meltdowns ...

 

The general suggestion is to hit analytical/complex tasks earlier in the day. As is clear from the thread, what this is varies per child esp. in the early elementary years. I think as they get older it tends toward instrument practice, math and also analytical thinking on other subjects.

 

Writers sometimes suggest turning out drafts later in the day, and revising in the AM.

 

People who are working at high levels apparently tend to work in 2-to-3 hourish chunks, I hear -- this is less well-substantiated in my mind than the other stuff. Obviously this isn't a good approach for elementary kids, but I have wondered if it might be a goal for upper high school children aimed at college or at high-level performance/arts.

 

If you can manage a 1-hourish nap in the afternoon, this really ups cognitive performance and memory later in the day. Starting with a 1-hour nap may muck up your sleep schedule; if this is feasible for you and you want to try it, start with 15 to 20 minutes.

 

Also I gather mamas of boys esp. have seen improved performance after AM exercise.

 

... just some thoughts ... I am dreaming of the time when I can incorporate the 1-hour nap!

 

The napping thing would be great: I'm 100% on board, but my boys are "play with your toys kinda quietly", not "lay still" kind of afternoon-resters.

 

I was thinking the 7yo is better at math, and makes steady progress which encourages him: therefor we were starting with it in the individual work. Switching now to reading/writing first on his schedule seems logical. He's got his sea legs under him a bit in terms of school, and he knows we don't cut out things we NEED to complete. (I used to let him do just one page or just 5 words when he was struggling, but that was a mistake.) He has noticed math is easier, but doesn't hate reading/writing so I think we're all set for a while.

 

A tangent, but I had a friend in music conservatory who was totally into this alternative polyphasic sleep schedule where she never rested for more than 4 or 5 hours. She would average 12 hours a day of practice that way (not counting bathroom breaks!), and had calculated that she got more done throughout the week. As I remember it lasted over a year. Pianists.

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I have ZERO data to back up anything I say to make it meaningful to anyone but us, but here it is:

 

We start the day with Bible and Spelling--because they can do it on their own while I get caffeinated.

 

Slip in some Reading because they can do that while I put my face on.

 

We move into the real day with Math and Language. Maybe sneak in some Latin if they've worked diligently.

 

LUNCH--WHOOPEE!

 

History. This is awesome. We love the reading and activities involved. It's a special treat to make it this far.

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We do breakfast/bible/read-aloud all in one

 

Even after years I have not found my groove (it very well could be we are still adjusting to a new state)

 

Dd7 needs lots of one on one time while dd11 & dd14 need very little instruction anymore.

 

I try to make sure everyone gets an hour of me, and I try to combine things where I can

 

I also try to carve out sometime for dd4 though nothing formal right now as she is more than ready for Kindy yet legally would t make the cut off this fall so we are taking our sweet time.

 

I do like to start with reading for dd7 this is her weakest area.

 

I am hoping once we are more settled I can have a more organized day, and stop changing everything up all the time on myself.

 

Moving is exhausting. Hope you feel more settled soon.

 

So far everything is hands-on for me with my 7yo. Every once in a while I catch a glimmer of what it will be like to have him be more independent.

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We do core subjects in the morning, hardest stuff first. Generally it's something like this:

 

1) Family Devotional and breakfast

2) Quick exercise (typically a rotation of calisthenics such as pushups, pullups, dips, crunches, scissor kicks, squats, or burpees, tabata style, 12-20 minutes total)

3) Math

4) Writing (handwriting for littles, copywork until age ten, a one page daily essay after age 10 unless I'm detecting an attitude problem when I switch back to copywork about whatever virtue is missing)

5) Spelling, vocabulary, Latin, or foreign language depending on the day of the week and their age.

6) Reading (including history, social studies, science, any sort of unit study they are interested in, I alternate literature and subject books)

7) Lunch and recess

7) Free time or other special projects and unit studies, Life of Fred, or fun but educational screen time like Khan Academy, Typing, Coursera, edX, Music practice, etc. These are not required, but the alternative is chores, playing outside, or reading quietly. No non-educational screen time during the day unless they have a fever or Mom's on vacation.

8) Lessons in the afternoon (music, swimming, dance, gymnastics, or tae kwon do depending on the child).

 

(Music practice and any memorization needed for church or school is considered a chore and they determine whether to work on those before or after school).

 

Exams and tests and test prep or practice exams are on Saturdays at 8am because I want that to be normal during PSAT & SAT time.

 

I'd rather do 3-5 hours a day, year round, with a handful of vacations then take summers off and spend half the year in review. This means they speed through stuff but things are always challenging. I'm hoping this will remedy the problems with mine and DH's educations, but I'm a little concerned if they get cubicle jobs they'll end up even more miserable with them than children who were taught to put up with endless boredom in schools are. Heavily pushing STEM careers for that reason.

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My 9 year old pretty much chooses the order he wants to do things. He has a notebook listing all the things I want him to do for the week. I check off in red the things he can do on his own with limited involvement from me so he can work on those whenever he wants at his own pace. For things that we do together IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ll let him know that I now have a chunk of time to work with him and he picks what weĂ¢â‚¬â„¢re going to do.

 

I let the 6 year old pick also although his work is pretty much reading, writing and math at this point. We do a little bit of some other stuff along with the 9 year old (art, geography, science) and that would just happen when itĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s a good time.

 

We donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t really have a set schedule for the day but in general I try and have them do math and all the LA topics before lunch. We often take a mid-morning break for tea and "Z. school" (picture books). Everything else happens in the afternoon.

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I found that history and science were always being neglected, so I scheduled those first (we do them in two-week rotations). The kids love starting the day with something fun and not too demanding. Math is technically second on the schedule, but my son hates Spanish and wants to get it out of the way, so that usually comes next, and it's coupled with memory work, so we knock those two out together. Then we usually get to math, unless dd asks to do Latin next! I have actually found that the later in the day we do math, the less the kids hassle me about it. They want to get it done, so they give it their full attention and crank through!

 

Tara

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I haven't read all the responses, so it may have already been mentioned, but Charlotte Mason talks about alternating activities to keep children fresh. So if we finish a writing-heavy subject, then I switch to a read aloud, and then to a visual activity, for example. I also vary the subject order often to prevent boredom.

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We've started out with different subjects just about every semester since I started homeschooling seven years ago. Like other people said, if we were not getting to a subject, it ended up going onto our schedule FIRST. Except for history, which has always been in the afternoon for us, we've pretty much started with every other subject (learning-to-read, spelling, math, logic, Latin, science, Art, etc.).

 

Now, I have enough kids to juggle, I plan around when they "need me" to be with them, so sometimes what goes first isn't what is best to go first. (Allergic-to-the-pencil Dd#1 shouldn't ever start with Writing first, but at least once a week that is what is first on her schedule.) Ideally, she'd schedule her own day. She isn't mature enough for it yet, but I can hold out hope!

 

Good luck!

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We've started to vary it more this week, Suzan, and I think it's a big help actually. It makes sense. I almost never work on my own brain-intensive things in the same order... plus because I'm now asking my older boy to write and read in more than just those specific classes (doing all the additional work in FLL and reading his own math directions, for example), our day feels more cohesive anyway. I think a lot of my former rigidity about the schedule was my own insecurity talking anyway.

 

Thanks for the input.

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