I've just about had enough.

[justamouse]

Healthcare costs are going up 200$ a month (so we dropped them, that would have been 17,000 a year for us, and we got a better deal, but 14k a year isn't cheap) and town taxes are rising 5%. :svengo: (Our taxes are 15k, and for NJ, that's on the cheaper side) Healthcare and taxes are 29k. That is *&^%$#$ sick.

 

What part of *recession* do these people NOT understand?

 

I might want to move down south.

[texasmama]

Come on down, honey. :D No state taxes here. However, I will say that you will face the same healthcare costs anywhere (of course, you know that). In fact, move to Texas, preferably the DFW area. We would have fun. :D

[Pegasus]

Come south! I have no state income tax and property tax is less than $1,000 annually. Cost of living is low. I am always shocked to hear of folks paying more in property tax than I pay for my mortgage/property tax combined.

[Cera]

Just remember the lower cost of living comes with lower salaries...comparing percentages makes a lot more sense and generally the differences between cost of living aren't nearly as significant when you look at it that way.

[Joker]

 

 

I wonder though if salaries in your area are lower and house prices higher.

 

Here our property taxes are extremely high, but it does drive the prices of houses lower. So while I pay a lot in taxes I pay very little for my mortgage. If I lived in an area with lower taxes I wonder if I would also pay more for my mortgage.

 

I pay less than $1000 month for my mortgage and less than $1000 a year for property taxes. As far as cost of living and salary, dh makes more here in a low COL area than he did when we lived in CA- which is definitely a higher COL area.

[justamouse]

Just remember the lower cost of living comes with lower salaries...comparing percentages makes a lot more sense and generally the differences between cost of living aren't nearly as significant when you look at it that way.

 

We'd bring the company with us. :D So, we'd hopefully be an asset to the community as an employer.

 

Ouch that is some crazy expensive insurance. Is this insurance through an employer or private?

 

It's through the business. But since we're a small business and don't have over 75 employees, we're not allowed to join the bigger pools for the lower rates. They get you coming and they get you going.

 

I hate it all. Really, I'm about sick to death of the slow bleed of it all.

[Pegasus]

 

I wonder though if salaries in your area are lower and house prices higher.

 

Here our property taxes are extremely high, but it does drive the prices of houses lower. So while I pay a lot in taxes I pay very little for my mortgage. If I lived in an area with lower taxes I wonder if I would also pay more for my mortgage.

 

I'm sure that salaries are lower on average but housing is relatively inexpensive. A typical (not high end) 2000 sq ft house would be about $125K.

[justamouse]

What prompted this was looking at the Parade magazine in the paper this morning and seeing how cheap (to us) the gorgeous houses down south are.

[Word Nerd]

I've read that some employers are also dropping health coverage for spouses because they now have to extend coverage for dependents to age 26. The ACA also requires additional per-person fees.

[GWOB]

 

 

We'd bring the company with us. :D So, we'd hopefully be an asset to the community as an employer.

 

*snip*

 

 

Well, if you're, you are coming here! Much lower property taxes, low state income taxes, and our town has vacant buildings just waiting for a business to move in! Plus, I'm here. What could be better than that?!?!

[beaners]

I've read that some employers are also dropping health coverage for spouses because they now have to extend coverage for dependents to age 26. The ACA also requires additional per-person fees.

 

 

My husband's employer is currently dropping coverage for ALL hourly employees because their current plan doesn't comply with the new law. I'm glad he is salaried, but he's pretty frustrated that it's happening. Right now, he has heard they are having trouble finding something that is affordable and meets the new law, so they haven't decided whether they're better off just paying the fine.

[texasmama]

What prompted this was looking at the Parade magazine in the paper this morning and seeing how cheap (to us) the gorgeous houses down south are.

 

Although the salaries are lower in the south (speaking in massive generalizations), the cost of living and the cost of housing/land is significantly lower, which offsets the overall cost of living. I lived in Maryland for 5 years, so I have an idea of the differences firsthand. Land is at a premium in the northeast. Land is much more available and affordable in the big ole state of Texas. In Maryland, it was very much the norm for a two income family to live in a purchased townhome rather than a single family home due to the cost. That was my experience, anyway. We also live outside the city limits so we do not have city taxes, only county taxes.

[Kim in Appalachia]

NJ is a hard place to live. The taxes will eat up everything, and there doesn't look like there will be any relief anytime soon. I grew up there, my parents moved once they retired because the taxes were so high. My sister still lives there.

 

Come south.(TN) My property taxes are about $1000 a year. No state income tax. Housing prices are good. But healthcare is horrible no matter where you are. :(

[Lanny]

The quality of life in the South is much better than it is in the N.E. It is not only the COL, but the quality of your life. Medical costs around the USA do vary, and I believe you will find that it is much less expensive, in Texas, for example, than in N.J.

 

Texas has no state income tax.

 

Years ago, a close friend of mine, he was employed in the corporate HQ in NYC, was relocated, from Northern N.J. to the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. His wife HATED the idea of the move and moving to Texas. Now, she would NEVER think of moving back to Jersey. She loves the lifestyle in Texas.

 

There are many reasons, why 1000 people move into Texas, every day. GL

[bzymom]

If it is any comfort, I'm with you. We're in NJ, paying $24,000 for health insurance and about $16000 property taxes. I.can't.stand.it. It is outrageous.

 

As they say, last one out of NJ, please turn the lights off.

[Meriwether]

Our first home was a modest (less than 100,000) starter home in Missouri. Our yearly property taxes were 300.00. Yes, I said yearly.

[kewb]

Yes, the taxes and cost of health insurance aboslutely stink in NJ. However, NJ has lots of great stuff about it.

[justamouse]

NJ is a hard place to live. The taxes will eat up everything, and there doesn't look like there will be any relief anytime soon. I grew up there, my parents moved once they retired because the taxes were so high. My sister still lives there.

 

Come south.(TN) My property taxes are about $1000 a year. No state income tax. Housing prices are good. But healthcare is horrible no matter where you are. :(

 

 

That's true, healthcare IS horrible, and getting worse, but at least we could absorb it down there. Right now...I mean, how much more are they going to squeeze people?

 

 

The quality of life in the South is much better than it is in the N.E. It is not only the COL, but the quality of your life. Medical costs around the USA do vary, and I believe you will find that it is much less expensive, in Texas, for example, than in N.J.

 

Texas has no state income tax.

 

Years ago, a close friend of mine, he was employed in the corporate HQ in NYC, was relocated, from Northern N.J. to the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. His wife HATED the idea of the move and moving to Texas. Now, she would NEVER think of moving back to Jersey. She loves the lifestyle in Texas.

 

There are many reasons, why 1000 people move into Texas, every day. GL

 

 

I totally believe you. And I live in a nice (slower, more farms) area of NJ.

 

If it is any comfort, I'm with you. We're in NJ, paying $24,000 for health insurance and about $16000 property taxes. I.can't.stand.it. It is outrageous.

 

As they say, last one out of NJ, please turn the lights off.

 

 

You know Christie is supposed to be getting a handle on this, but I'm not seeing it. I'm furious. And sick of it all. I'm sick of how long and hard my Dh has to work just for us to stay here.

 

 

Our first home was a modest (less than 100,000) starter home in Missouri. Our yearly property taxes were 300.00. Yes, I said yearly.

 

 

*jawdrop* Wow.

[jennynd]

When move from iN to upstate NY. We got a similar house compare to our old house. The house in ny is 30% more expensive and property tax was doubled.

[CupOCoffee]

I live in the People's Republic of NJ as well, it stinks! I started having to pay $150 more a month for my family's healthcare this January. That coupled with rising taxes and rising food cost, plus house repairs -- it's killing us. Short of me getting another (2nd) job, I have no idea how long we will last. My husband cannot work, but does not qualify disability, it just sucks beyond belief.

 

~coffee~

[Lanny]

I don't take offense to this exactly, but I don't feel like there is anything wrong with the quality of my life here in NY (I do not live in NYC). I've also lived in CT. And while it was more expensive, again, nothing to complain about in terms of quality of life. Although I'm not exactly sure what your definition of "quality of life" is.

 

Air quality (excluding the Houston, TX area), time spent in traffic jams and commuting (again, excluding Houston), size of the house and lot one can afford. Much more relaxed in general. If you do not live in/near "the city", you are extremely lucky.

 

I've been in that area and when I quoted my hourly rate, for temporary job assignments, it was usually about double of what I would quote for Texas or Alabama or other low cost areas. California was the same, because it is a very high cost area.

 

There are web sites (not sure which ones) where one can put in the area they live in currently, and their annual salary, and then an area they might consider moving to, and they can determine how much more (or sometimes, less) income they would need, to maintain the same standard of living.

 

Wendy, if I offended you, in any way, I hope you will accept my apology. No offense was intended.

[JenC3]

Lots of transplants from the northeast in my area, lots of biz, family friendly, pro homeschooling, just great. Our 5 bed, 2700 sqft, pool and 500 sqft seperate office run us $1100 a month and ins incl:)

[mommymilkies]

The Midwest is also affordable. Our remodeled old home on the most desired street was $75k and taxes are ~$1400 a year. Our insurance sucks, though, and healthcare is hard to find in this state compared to others we've been to or lived in. I wouldn't say quality of life is better, but different. Culture (music, arts, diversity, etc.) is hard to come by, except for in large cities.

[Lanny]

Well when people say NY they think NYC. Most of NY is nothing like NYC. DH has a 10 minute commute to work. I don't know about the air quality, but it definitely smells prettier here than NYC.

 

Ten minute commute is paradise. He is SO lucky. Very few people are lucky to have such a short commute to/from work. Yes, I know most of New York State is nothing like the city. I've been there. Upstate is much more relaxed. The city is incredibly stressful.

[QueenCat]

I'm sure that salaries are lower on average but housing is relatively inexpensive. A typical (not high end) 2000 sq ft house would be about $125K.

 

Wow! We live in a low cost of living area but that would be really low for here! Closer to 160-170, for one that is in good condition but not brand new. Maybe 10 years oldish. Taxes would be around $2000/year. This is in the Northern Middle TN area.

[QueenCat]

I pay less than $1000 month for my mortgage and less than $1000 a year for property taxes.

 

I find it hard to compare mortgages as one doesn't know how much was put down on the house. A 150k house and a 300k house can have similar mortgages if the 300k had a significant down payment.

[QueenCat]

I've read that some employers are also dropping health coverage for spouses because they now have to extend coverage for dependents to age 26. The ACA also requires additional per-person fees.

 

The ACA is not insurance, and no, there are not required per person fees. An employer can have them but it is not required by law. Dh's employer does not charge extra per person. It is a flat family rate, and did not increase with the younger adult on it.

[QueenCat]

Same here, but salaries I would venture to guess are higher here. Although I'm not sure what exactly we are comparing.

 

 

I know when dh looked at a job, with his old company, in Northern Va, the pay was higher than the same job where we were BUT no where near enough of an increase to maintain our standard of living. It was about 30% higher but similar houses, in similar areas, were about 250% higher, plus we would have to start paying state income taxes, and property taxes on more than just the house. We would have been okay with a slightly smaller house but overall, it just didn't make economic sense to do it. However, we may still go for a higher cost of living area in a couple of years as it will bring us closer to family (3 hours vs. 12) and it will be a good career move. And not quite the extreme of the earlier option.

[WagsWife]

I've read that some employers are also dropping health coverage for spouses because they now have to extend coverage for dependents to age 26. The ACA also requires additional per-person fees.

 

 

 

Great! So, the kid living in my basement has the right to be covered by my husbands insurance, but I don't? Brilliant plan, this medical stuff is. Wonderfully thought through...

[lea1]

Just remember the lower cost of living comes with lower salaries...comparing percentages makes a lot more sense and generally the differences between cost of living aren't nearly as significant when you look at it that way.

 

 

I think this really depends on what industry you are in. When I moved to Dallas from Boston, I ended up getting a raise (and I was already making pretty good money in the computer science industry) and my cost of living went way down.

[QueenCat]

 

This is weird because many insurance plans/companies have actually been doing this already for years. My dad's insurance (that I was on 20 years ago) did this. My husband's insurance already did this.

 

Dh's company did this too. Our kids could have stayed on until 26 as long as they weren't married. With the law, they can stay on even if married, as long as they aren't in the military (or a couple of other conditions, but I don't remember them right now). Regardless, they've never, and don't now, charge more for the young adults.

[Meriwether]

*jawdrop* Wow.

 

Well, you'd understand how they were that cheap if you took a drive on the backroads. Still, I liked the low taxes.

 

 

ETA: The Midwest has a lot to recommend it, but we are so far away from the oceans, the mountains, entertainment venues, etc. The savings in taxes would pay for a really great vacation every year, though.

[Halftime Hope]

Cera, on 14 April 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

 

Just remember the lower cost of living comes with lower salaries...comparing percentages makes a lot more sense and generally the differences between cost of living aren't nearly as significant when you look at it that way.

 

 

I think this really depends on what industry you are in. When I moved to Dallas from Boston, I ended up getting a raise (and I was already making pretty good money in the computer science industry) and my cost of living went way down.

 

 

I'm going to agree with Lea on this one. We looked at moving from the DFW area up to Maryland (D.C. area), for the same industry (computers) and dh essentially doing the same job he did here (systems analysis/programming/business analyst) , and the jobs there wouldn't pay any more than the ones here, and the COL was much higher than here. His was a very specific niche, so we had a good idea whether it was a comparable job, so it really was a matter of the COL difference eating our lunch, since the salaries were about the same $ amount. Not a good move.

[Melinda in VT]

Air quality (excluding the Houston, TX area), time spent in traffic jams and commuting (again, excluding Houston), size of the house and lot one can afford. Much more relaxed in general. If you do not live in/near "the city", you are extremely lucky.

 

OK, when you said these things (air quality, commuting time, house and lot size, degree of relaxation) were better in TX than in NE, what part of New England or the Northeast were you talking about?

[Amy in NH]

The quality of life in the South is much better than it is in the N.E. It is not only the COL, but the quality of your life.

 

I strongly disagree with that. We have lived in Florida (can't get much more south than that and still be in the US) and the quality of living is 100x better here in New Hampshire. And NH doesn't have income tax OR sales tax.

 

I know there is no way I'd be happy in Texas.

[Word Nerd]

 

 

The ACA is not insurance, and no, there are not required per person fees. An employer can have them but it is not required by law. Dh's employer does not charge extra per person. It is a flat family rate, and did not increase with the younger adult on it.

 

You are mistaken. The per-person fees go into effect in 2014. Whether employers pass them along to employees is another matter. I never said the ACA was insurance, so I don't know what that has to do with anything.

[Lanny]

OK, when you said these things (air quality, commuting time, house and lot size, degree of relaxation) were better in TX than in NE, what part of New England or the Northeast were you talking about?

 

Not VT.... LOL.... With regard to air quality, primarily, to the Metro NYC area. I remember being there, in Westchester County (White Plains probably) and thinking my car had a carbon monoxide leak. After pulling into a gas station to check it out, I realized it was the air in that area, not my car.

 

I have friends who lived in VT for approximately 5 years. Vermont must be incredibly beautiful! Then, they moved to NC.

[Catwoman]

The quality of life in the South is much better than it is in the N.E. It is not only the COL, but the quality of your life.

 

Not to me, it isn't. :D

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one! :)

[Lanny]

I strongly disagree with that. We have lived in Florida (can't get much more south than that and still be in the US) and the quality of living is 100x better here in New Hampshire. And NH doesn't have income tax OR sales tax.

 

I know there is no way I'd be happy in Texas.

 

When the OP mentioned maybe moving South, I didn't consider Florida, but you are certainly correct, in that Florida is the Southernmost part of the continental USA. If you are far enough from Boston, the housing costs in your area are probably not horrible. To me, if I were to assume, i would think that you have much lower overall crime rates, in NH, than in Texas or anywhere else in the South, so that would be a 'big plus" for me. When I look at stories about crime rates, disregarding places like Chicago, it looks like the Colder cities (smaller/medium size) in the North frequently have lower crime rates than anywhere in the South. When it's very cold, the bad guys stay inside and the crime rate stays low?

[QueenCat]

You are mistaken. The per-person fees go into effect in 2014. Whether employers pass them along to employees is another matter. I never said the ACA was insurance, so I don't know what that has to do with anything.

 

My apologies, I was wrong... I see that it is a per year fee for three years.

[sparrow]

Wow. Yeah, we're representin' Midwest here and we pay about $1500/year in property taxes. We live in a nice area, too, as in, our neighbors are our dentist, orthodontist, and opthamologist ;). :grouphug: I feel ill for you.

 

The healthcare costs are sick, but it seems we're all suffering with that :glare: . We pay about $8000/year.

[Momof3littles]

Healthcare is killer, isn't it? We are currently paying about 5-6K/yr for our private plan (higher deductible plan paired with HSA). That is working well for us. We have a maternity exclusion on it, so when the new rules kick in I believe our rates will shoot up dramatically, as they'll have to cover mental health, maternity, etc. DH works for a small business and insurance for our family would be 12K. I suspect their rates will rise sharply this year. They are just under 50 employees, so no obligation to provide insurance at all, although I suspect they will. We will not qualify for any subsidies to buy on the private exchange, so we're looking at 12-15K+ or more from what I can tell. And then the small business exchange for insurance is looking like it might be pricier than initially projected since small businesses with healthier and younger employees may self-insure at higher rates than previously expected. I've read that could mean about a 25% higher price on the small business exchange than previously thought.

 

It doesn't seem as though any of our options are going to be terribly affordable.

[kiwik]

How do your taxes work:

 

State income tax plus national income tax ? Or instead of?

 

Property tax - is this like our rates that pay for utilities, sportsgrounds, libraries etc ? Or something else?

[speedmom4]

I know so many people in our area from NY, NJ, and California. Most of them have said that they didn't want the high taxes anymore and moved south. Many of them were surprised with how much house they could buy here and the low property taxes. NC does have state income tax, though.

 

Good luck!

 

Elise in NC

[Lolly]

What prompted this was looking at the Parade magazine in the paper this morning and seeing how cheap (to us) the gorgeous houses down south are.

 

 

Come to TN! I have the house for you right around the corner from me. 5 br, large fenced backyard, convenient to everything, priced low! Health costs are killer, but property taxes are decently low and no state income tax. The elementary school you would be zoned for isn't that great, but you homeschool!? Others with kids in the neighborhood send them to private until high school. When are you coming?

[DawnM]

Most of your state is already down here!

[FaithManor]

Okay, let's see. I live in somewhere that can be described as rural, a long drive north of Detroit, MI.

 

Or home is atypical. We purchased a 100+ year old church and renovated it. Due to being a historical building, we only pay about $550.00 year property tax on a 3500 sq. ft. house - currently only have 2125 sq. ft. of it finished - no garage. Phase 3 calls for a garage/workshop to be built.

 

Anyway, looking at three houses that have sold recently in our neighborhood. House A. Repossession - new roof, new furnace, new linoleum and carpet (the owners did that 18 months ago and then lost their jobs, very, very sad....). 1200 sq.ft. two-story, no garage, does have a large unfinished room where a garage could have been and it's used for storage. 3 bedroom one bath, nice kitchen, living room and den...if memory serves there is a small mudroom off the back that contains the washer and dryer. Came with appliances all of which were purchased in the last 7 years and in working condition. Heat bill - generally $300.00 per month in propane during the coldest weather. Electric - $150.00 - 175.00 during the winter. Lower in the summer if one does not run window air conditioners. Has a 1/2 acre yard and small vegetable garden plot...on cul de sac, nice quiet neighbors and wooded across the street. Sold for $11,000.00 with property tax now reset to the purchase price so around $150.00. The town is rural and nothing to look at.

 

House B - 1700 sq ft. two story with gorgeous porch on 20 acres mostly wooded neighboring stateland and wildlife refuge. Deer will ALWAYS be in this yard. I cannot imagine clearing it for a vegetable garden unless one put up electric fence around the garden! One car garage, built in the last 20 years and immaculately kept. Some appliances though not all. Some hardwood floors. Sold for $125,000.00 (mostly because retired folks from the city like the land and the wildlife so land sells for $4000.00 an acre. Property tax - $1000.00, heat (probably $350.00 a month during the worst part of the winter, with electric close to $200.00. It's shaded enough in the summer, I doubt the owners will need to run any air.

 

House C - Standard 1400 sq.ft. ranch on 1 acre. Nice location, nothing special though in good shape and probably only needing cosmetic work such as paint and maybe carpet in a room or two. Sold for $40,000.00 property taxes $300.00 and I'd say a lot of that has to do with the very nice small pole barn on the property. Utilities similar to the quote for the repo.

 

Now, that said, many people if they want to make more than the median for this area ($32,000.00 a year and dropping) do drive to one of the cities. This means either a nearly 2 hr. commute to Detroit or a 1 hr. to a tri-city. Dh only has to drive six times per month and is allowed to work at home the rest of the time, but he's an Oracle DBA and works with programming teams and customers from 13 different countries and a many time zones so it doesn't matter to his employer where he "sits" to do most of his work. My brother, also a techie, works from home. Dh is one of the highest earners in the county which is not to say that we are wealthy or anything like that - we don't have weathy people in this neck of the woods, it's a reflection on how low wages are for the jobs available in the area.

 

Our health insurance is $14,000.00 per year through dh's employer and they have generously chosen to pay 75% of that since his promotion. Our church pays approximately $8500.00 per year per employee and it has a $2000.00 deductible. The church puts $1500.00 in an HSA for each employee to help them cover the deductible because the premium would be much higher than that if they went to a no deductible policy. Due to the lower wages, they pay 100% of the premium. DD works for an EMS company, not our county though, and pays about $160.00 per month for herself - will pay $200.00 per month when she gets married and adds her dh - with small co-pays and very, very small deductibles. I'm not certain what the total premium is. Most of the hospitals and medical facilities pay similarly towards their employees' medical premiums. The teachers are averaging $300 - 500 per month on family plans depending on the school districts and the county employees had to go to a deductible policy. I am not certain what portion, if any, of their premium they pay. There are small employers like mom and pop shops and I suspect that they provide no health insurance or only really, really high deductible/restrictive policies. There are a few nationally recognized chains such as Advanced Auto and Auto Zone or Rite Aid Phamarcy...I am not certain what it provided to their employees.

 

Lots of good food shopping. Food is cheap and healthy options are abundant. Plenty of pharmacies. But, your only shopping options are Walmart (blech, ours it atrocious) and the few mom and pop shops that survive. We support the local hardwares and floral shops as much as possible. My salon is awesome and I can point you to the place to get an amazing haircut and style! Otherwise, you have to head to one of the tri-cities to find a mall or Kohl's, JcPenney, Target, Barnes and Nobles, etc.

 

We have very little of the arts out here except our county does have a new arts center that has opened - they do mostly music, however they are exanding into drawing, painting, and hope to have an art gallery soon. The local libraries try very hard. They show documentaries, host book clubs, literary studies, puppet shows for the younger kids, art exhibits, and offer tours to museums in the city for reasonable fees.

 

I take the kids to Detroit on field trips which is great! Detroit Institute of Arts, Henry Ford and Greenfield Village, Space Museum, Cranbrook, Detroit Symphony Orchestra (the Young People Concerts on Saturday mornings are more reasonable than tickets to the evening performances and are geared to the "field trip" crowd), etc. We also journey into Midland and take advantage of the fact that performances in the Peanut Gallery (this year we saw Romeo and Juliet by a fairly decent Shakespeare company and have also been to the ballet plus numerous plays and musicals) are usually only $11.00 for students and $15.00 to $18.00 for adults with some performances running as low as $7.00 and $10.00. The Midland Symphony is decent and they perform there as well. There is a nice little Natural History museum, art gallery with traveling shows, the Dow Gardens and Nature Center, annual Butterfly house (only around $3.00 - 5.00 each to get in to that - wear a bright red or hot pink shirt...they'll land on you!), etc.

 

So, we can commute to cultural events and that's the norm. People are used to that. No, it is not convenient/close. But, it isn't has if we live in a total vaccuum either.

 

If you are willing to commute for health care, then you can take advantage of Beaumont in Detroit and U of M Medical Center in Ann Arbor which are first rate hospitals. We have St. Joseph's in Ann Arbor and Children's at Wayne State for children's hospitals and they give high class care. Local hospitals are....uhm...okay for the small stuff. The EMS system is fantastic unless you are in inner city Detroit and then, well, it's bad...not because the medics don't care, but because it's so unsafe that the medics aren't allowed to go into some areas until they get an all clear from police and sheriff which means patients wait a long time for help to arrive. In other areas, it's an excellent system since Michigan considers medics to be field doctors and train them accordingly which means they can provide a lot of care and medical procedures in the field. Not every state is like this. Response time for dd's EMS hovers in the six minute range with a max of 10 min. in the rural areas and we require most of our firefighters to be licensed EMT's which means that from just about any place in the lower penninsula, someone certified in CPR and basic first aid is a minute or two from your home around here.

 

There are lots of areas like this in the lower peninsula though it is a much longer commute to museums and cultural events if you choose to live north of Bay City/Midland or in the center of the state north of CMU and Ferris State U. Now, the Traverse Bay region is absolutely gorgeous and full of cultural events. The COL is MUCH higher and I'm not certain who the major employers are outside of the tourist industry.

 

We don't have oceans. We have the Great Lakes and they may as well be oceans; they just don't have sharks and jellyfish! These are inland seas so you do feel like you've been to the ocean when you go and the beaches are gorgeous. State Parks are $5.00 per vehicle and many of the county parks are free. You can get a state park pass for the entire year for $20.00; the camping fees are low. Most of the campgrounds have nice showers, playgrounds, etc. and the park rangers are AWESOME! Our kids have taken part in many nature hikes and science programs throughout their young years. Everything from cataloging botanicals, making plaster or paris prints on the beach, hunting petosky stones and fossils, to water ecology, conservation, and history of Native Americans in Michigan. The National Seashore at Sleeping Bear Dunes is spectacular. The fish hatcheries also provide excellent tours. If you want to head north, you have Fort Michilimakinac on the mainland and the suspension bridge to the upper peninsula, ferries to Mackinaw Island and the fort there, and then the gorgeous wilds of the UP. The locks at Sault Ste. Marie are a sight to behold, Tacquamenon Falls, Pictured Rocks National Seashore, the shipwreck museums and lighthouses, Copper Harbor (Keeweenaw Penninsula) and the tours of the mining facilities, ferries to Isle Royale National Park (backpacking in only...no vehicles), and Lake of the Clouds (Porcupine Mountains).

 

Lake Michigan is truly lovely and Lake Superior makes you feel like as though you left the states and have gone to some far off, distant land...very cold, only the brave swim there!!! If you have your passport or enhanced driver's license, Sault Ste. Marie Canada, Sarnia, and Windsor have some sweet sites. I highly recommend the Bushplane Museum in Sault Ste. Marie. If you can afford the Algonquin Train tours during autumn, they are unforgettable.

 

Most people think of Detroit when they think of Michigan. They consider it to be fairly flat like central and northern Indiana. But, Michigan is a beautiful, amazing state when you get north of I-94 and the further north or west you go the more gorgeous it gets. However, employment is always an issue. This state has been so hard hit by the recession and loss of manufacturing that it is having a difficult time recovering.

 

If you are looking for schools, stay in the Detroit burbs or Ann Arbor unless you can afford Traverse City. There are several high schools in he I-94 corridor that are in the top 500 high schools in the U.S. and the IB school in West Bloomfield is in the top 10...truly astounding what they offer to motivated students. In the sticks, the schools are.not.great. and the budget cuts have taken a toll on academic offerings that makes your head spin!

 

Along the I-69 corridor, you can pick up Amtrak from several stations and make the journey into Chicago very reasonably. We have friends that live not far from Durand, so we get up very early, drive to their house and leave our mini-van, and they drive us to the station.

 

Homeschooling is easy. State guidelines indicate that you should address the core subjects of English Grammar and Writing, Literature, Spelling, and Penmanship, Math, Science, History/Social Studies, and Reading. No registration, reporting, or mandatory testing so no one comes to check anyway. The state schools are very happy to admit homeschoolers.

 

Faith

[Georgiana Daniels]

NM.

 

I don't want to make it political. Sorry justamouse!

[sparrow]

Okay, let's see. I live in somewhere that can be descibed as rural, a long drive north of Detroit, MI.

 

Or home is atypical. We purchased a 100+ year old church and renovated it. Due to being a historical building, we only pay about $550.00 year property tax on a 3500 sq. ft. house - currently only have 2125 sq. ft. of it finished - no garage. Phase 3 calls for a garage/workshop to be built.

 

Anyway, looking at three houses that have sold recently in our neighborhood. House A. Repossession - new roof, new furnace, new linoleum and carpet (the owners did that 18 months ago and then lost their jobs, very, very sad....). 1200 sq.ft. two-story, no garage, does have a large unfinished room where a garage could have been and it's used for storage. 3 bedroom one bath, nice kitchen, living room and den...if memory serves there is a small mudroom off the back that contains the washer and dryer. Came with appliances all of which were purchased in the last 7 years and in working condition. Heat bill - generally $300.00 per month in propane during the coldest weather. Electric - $150.00 - 175.00 during the winter. Lower in the summer if one does not run window air conditioners. Has a 1/2 acre yard and small vegetable garden plot...on cul de sac, nice quiet neighbors and wooded across the street. Sold for $11,000.00 with property tax now reset to the purchase price so around $150.00. The town is rural and nothing to look at.

 

House B - 1700 sq ft. two story with gorgeous porch on 20 acres mostly wooded neighboring stateland and wildlife refuge. Deer will ALWAYS be in this yard. I cannot imagine clearing it for a vegetable garden unless one put up electric fence around the garden! One car garage, built in the last 20 years and immaculately kept. Some appliances though not all. Some hardwood floors. Sold for $125,000.00 (mostly because retired folks from the city like the land and the wildlife so land sells for $4000.00 an acre. Property tax - $1000.00, heat (probably $350.00 a month during the worst part of the winter, with electric close to $200.00. It's shaded enough in the summer, I doubt the owners will need to run any air.

 

House C - Standard 1400 sq.ft. ranch on 1 acre. Nice location, nothing special though in good shape and probably only needing cosmetic work such as paint and maybe carpet in a room or two. Sold for $40,000.00 property taxes $300.00 and I'd say a lot of that has to do with the very nice small pole barn on the property. Utilities similar to the quote for the repo.

 

Now, that said, many people if they want to make more than the median for this area ($32,000.00 a year and dropping) do drive to one of the cities. This means either a nearly 2 hr. commute to Detroit or a 1 hr. to a tri-city. Dh only has to drive six times per month and is allowed to work at home the rest of the time, but he's an Oracle DBA and works with programming teams and customers from 13 different countries and a many time zones so it doesn't matter to his employer where he "sits" to do most of his work. My brother, also a techie, works from home. Dh is one of the highest earners in the county which is not to say that we are wealthy or anything like that - we don't have weathy people in this neck of the woods, it's a reflection on how low wages are for the jobs available in the area.

 

Our health insurance is $14,000.00 per year through dh's employer and they have generously chosen to pay 75% of that since his promotion. Our church pays approximately $8500.00 per year per employee and it has a $2000.00 deductible. The church puts $1500.00 in an HSA for each employee to help them cover the deductible because the premium would be much higher than that if they went to a no deductible policy. Due to the lower wages, they pay 100% of the premium. DD works for an EMS company, not our county though, and pays about $160.00 per month for herself - will pay $200.00 per month when she gets married and adds her dh - with small co-pays and very, very small deductibles. I'm not certain what the total premium is. Most of the hospitals and medical facilities pay similarly towards their employees' medical premiums. The teacher's are averaging $300 - 500 per month on family plans depending on the school districts and the county employees had to go to a deductible policy. I am not certain what portion, if any, of their premium they pay. There are small employers like mom and pop shops and I suspect that they provide no health insurance or only really, really high deductible/restrictive policies. There are a few nationally recognized chains such as Advanced Auto and Auto Zone or Rite Aid Phamarcy...I am not certain what it provided to their employees.

 

Lots of good food shopping. Food is cheap and healthy options are abundant. Plenty of pharmacies. But, your only shopping options are Walmart (blech, ours it atrocious) and the few mom and pop shops that survive. We support the local hardwares and floral shops as much as possible. My salon is awesome and I can point you to the place to get an amazing haircut and style! Otherwise, you have to head to one of the tri-cities to find a mall or Kohl's, JcPenney, Target, Barnes and Nobles, etc.

 

We have very little of the arts out here except our county does have a new arts center that has opened - they do mostly music, however they are exanding into drawing, painting, and hope to have an art gallery soon. The local libraries try very hard. They show documentaries, host book clubs, literary studies, puppet shows for the younger kids, art exhibits, and offer tours to museums in the city for reasonable fees.

 

I take the kids to Detroit on field trips which is great! Detroit Institute of Arts, Henry Ford and Greenfield Village, Space Museum, Cranbrook, Detroit Symphony Orchestra (the Young People Concerts on Saturday mornings are more reasonable than tickets to the evening performances and are geared to the "field trip" crowd), etc. We also journey into Midland and take advantage of the fact that performances in the Peanut Gallery (this year we saw Romeo and Juliet by a fairly decent Shakespeare company and have also been to the ballet plus numerous plays and musicals) are usually only $11.00 for students and $15.00 to $18.00 for adults with some performances running as low as $7.00 and $10.00. The Midland Symphony is decent and they perform there as well. There is a nice little Natural History museum, art gallery with traveling shows, the Dow Gardens and Nature Center, annual Butterfly house (only around $3.00 - 5.00 each to get in to that - wear a bright red or hot pink shirt...they'll land on you!), etc.

 

So, we can commute to cultural events and that's the norm. People are used to that. No, it is not convenient/close. But, it isn't has if we live in a total vaccuum either.

 

If you are willing to commute for health care, then you can take advantage of Beaumont in Detroit and U of M Medical Center in Ann Arbor which are first rate hospitals. We have St. Joseph's in Ann Arbor and Children's at Wayne State for children's hospitals and they give high class care. Local hospitals are....uhm...okay for the small stuff. The EMS system is fantastic unless you are in inner city Detroit and then, well, it's bad...not because the medics don't care, but because it's so unsafe that the medics aren't allowed to go into some areas until they get an all clear from police and sheriff which means patients wait a long time for help to arrive. In other areas, it's an excellent system since Michigan considers medics to be field doctors and train them accordingly which means they can provide a lot of care and medical procedures in the field. Not every state is like this. Response time for dd's EMS hovers in the six minute range with a max of 10 min. in the rural areas and we require most of our firefighters to be licensed EMT's which means that from just about any place in the lower penninsula, someone certified in CPR and basic first aid is a minute or two from your home around here.

 

There are lots of areas like this in the lower peninsula though it is a much longer commute to museums and cultural events if you choose to live north of Bay City/Midland or in the center of the state north of CMU and Ferris State U. Now, the Traverse Bay region is absolutely gorgeous and full of cultural events. The COL is MUCH higher and I'm not certain who the major employers are outside of the tourist industry.

 

We don't have oceans. We have the Great Lakes and they may as well be oceans; they just don't have sharks and jellyfish! These are inland seas so you do feel like you've been to the ocean when you go and the beaches are gorgeous. State Parks are $5.00 per vehicle and many of the county parks are free. You can get a state park pass for the entire year for $20.00; the camping fees are low. Most of the campgrounds have nice showers, playgrounds, etc. and the park rangers are AWESOME! Our kids have taken part in many nature hikes and science programs throughout their young years. Everything from cataloging botanicals, making plaster or paris prints on the beach, hunting petosky stones and fossils, to water ecology, conservation, and history of Native Americans in Michigan. The National Seashore at Sleeping Bear Dunes is spectacular. The fish hatcheries also provide excellent tours. If you want to head north, you have Fort Michilimakinac on the mainland and the suspension bridge to the upper peninsula, ferries to Mackinaw Island and the fort there, and then the gorgeous wilds of the UP. The locks at Sault Ste. Marie are a sight to behold, Tacquamenon Falls, Pictured Rocks National Seashore, the shipwreck museums and lighthouses, Copper Harbor (Keeweenaw Penninsula) and the tours of the mining facilities, ferries to Isle Royale National Park (backpacking in only...no vehicles), and Lake of the Clouds (Porcupine Mountains).

 

Lake Michigan is truly lovely and Lake Superior makes you feel like as though you left the states and have gone to some far off, distant land...very cold, only the brave swim there!!! If you have your passport or enhanced driver's license, Sault Ste. Marie Canada, Sarnia, and Windsor have some sweet sites. I highly recommend the Bushplane Museum in Sault Ste. Marie. If you can afford the Algonquin Train tours during autumn, they are unforgettable.

 

Most people think of Detroit when they think of Michigan. They consider it to be fairly flat like central and northern Indiana. But, Michigan is a beautiful, amazing state when you get north of I-94 and the further north or west you go the more gorgeous it gets. However, employment is always an issue. This state has been so hard hit by the recession and loss of manufacturing that it is having a difficult time recovering.

 

If you are looking for schools, stay in the Detroit burbs or Ann Arbor unless you can afford Traverse City. There are several high schools in he I-94 corridor that are in the top 500 high schools in the U.S. and the IB school in West Bloomfield is in the top 10...truly astounding what they offer to motivated students. In the sticks, the schools are.not.great. and the budget cuts have taken a toll on academic offerings that makes your head spin!

 

Along the I-69 corridor, you can pick up Amtrak from several stations and make the journey into Chicago very reasonably. We have friends that live not far from Durand, so we get up very early, drive to their house and leave our mini-van, and they drive us to the station.

 

Homeschooling is easy. State guidelines indicate that you should address the core subjects of English Grammar and Writing, Literature, Spelling, and Penmanship, Math, Science, History/Social Studies, and Reading. No registration, reporting, or mandatory testing so no one comes to check anyway. The state schools are very happy to admit homeschoolers.

 

Faith

 

 

:lol: Faith, I read your post in Tim Allen's voice and pretended it was a Pure Michigan ad.

 

Dang, I love this state :001_wub: . I've never wanted to live anywhere else.

[QueenCat]

How do your taxes work:

 

State income tax plus national income tax ? Or instead of?

 

Property tax - is this like our rates that pay for utilities, sportsgrounds, libraries etc ? Or something else?

 

 

State income taxes do not replace national income taxes. Some states have an income tax, some do not. Property taxes normally pay for things like schools. Local sales taxes pay for libraries and such. Individuals pay their own utilities consumptions (as in, we get an electric bill, a water bill, a gas bill, etc).