mom24cuties Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Deleted this so I can move on. Thanks for all the advice. Edited March 13, 2013 by mom24cuties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I think you need to have a long and serious talk with him before you make any kind of decision. Is he normally a kind and loving father to the kids? How does he treat you? Does he call you bad names? Is he abusive in any other way? I don't think any of us can advise you without knowing more details -- but I would be very concerned that your dd doesn't want to be left alone with him. That is a huge red flag to me. Are you absolutely certain that he isn't abusing her in any other way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 If it is true, which I am assuming it is since your son was also aware of it, then this is not a safe environment for your children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 What would I do? He would go period. My kids come first it is that simple. I dated a guy briefly who smarted off to my oldest real hateful like he was asked to leave right then. No one will have a say in raising my kid who talks to her in that manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMCassandra Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Honestly, that would be a deal-breaker for me. Rates of molestation/violence are so much higher in homes where the man is not the biodad make me cautious in this area. Non-bio-dads can be awesome, but I would set the bar high for tolerated behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 That would have to be the last time he ever said anything like that ever again or he would be gone. I'd want him in counseling too, honestly, and he'd be making up for it for the next year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 IMO these are pretty serious red flags. I would send him packing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReader Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I would definitely never leave the kids alone with him any more. Verbal abuse is still abuse. I would begin making whatever plans are necessary to remove him from your life. Or if it was me, that is what I would do. I lived with verbal abuse as a young teenager, and I will not under any circumstances put my kids through that, ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I can't help but hope that the OP will post a more detailed update, because I suspect there is probably a whole lot more to this story than we know, if she is ready to throw her fiance out of the house. The name-calling was absolutely unacceptable, but I think we need to know more about this guy before we jump to the conclusion that she should immediately kick him to the curb. And as you know, I am generally pro-curb-kicking. I just feel like there's more to the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I can't help but hope that the OP will post a more detailed update, because I suspect there is probably a whole lot more to this story than we know, if she is ready to throw her fiance out of the house. The name-calling was absolutely unacceptable, but I think we need to know more about this guy before we jump to the conclusion that she should immediately kick him to the curb. And as you know, I am generally pro-curb-kicking. I just feel like there's more to the story. Agreed. I am guessing there is more. Though OP may not know what that more is. At the end of the day your children's well-being and safety come first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Whoa. I get feeling frustrated with kids sometimes, but you don't call a 7 year old a b****. I wouldn't tolerate that, either. And if the guy is calling a 7yo a b****, I can't help but wonder if he also uses a similar term for the OP when he gets angry, and she lets him get away with it. It doesn't seem right that this would be a first-time occurrence in the household. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Although there must be more to the story I can't see any situation excusing calling a child a B. No matter what it is verbal abuse and she needs to protect her children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I am concerned that there may be more to the story than this. Why did he call her this name? How does he behave when they are home alone? Does she feel unsafe home alone because he is mean or because he has done something to make her uncomfortable> It may be only verbal abuse, or I wonder if he may have molested her or done something to make her uncomfortable. OP I would advise you to ask your dd specifically and calmly if he has touched her private areas or asked or required her to touch him, or if he has exposed himself to her or in some way made her uncomfortable. If she says yes, believe her. If it is "only" verbal abuse, I am still quite concerned. That's absolutely inappropriate. I would want to know why, and I would also make it crystal clear that such behavior is a deal breaker. Bottom line--if your dd is not safe being home alone with your fiancee, then you need to seek professional help ASAP. If he has hurt her in some way, do not stop to talk or debate or struggle over whether or not you believe it occurred or if it was "that bad." IF he hurt her, kick him out first (change the locks too) and then work with your daughter to understand the full truth and to protect her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I am concerned that there may be more to the story than this. Why did he call her this name? How does he behave when they are home alone? Does she feel unsafe home alone because he is mean or because he has done something to make her uncomfortable> It may be only verbal abuse, or I wonder if he may have molested her or done something to make her uncomfortable. OP I would advise you to ask your dd specifically and calmly if he has touched her private areas or asked or required her to touch him, or if he has exposed himself to her or in some way made her uncomfortable. If she says yes, believe her. If it is "only" verbal abuse, I am still quite concerned. That's absolutely inappropriate. I would want to know why, and I would also make it crystal clear that such behavior is a deal breaker. Bottom line--if your dd is not safe being home alone with your fiancee, then you need to seek professional help ASAP. If he has hurt her in some way, do not stop to talk or debate or struggle over whether or not you believe it occurred or if it was "that bad." IF he hurt her, kick him out first (change the locks too) and then work with your daughter to understand the full truth and to protect her. :iagree: It's interesting that the OP said that the fiance has been the only father her dd has ever known and that "everything has gone great," but she's ready to leave him without discussing the name-calling with him. There is definitely more going on here. I'm less concerned about the namecalling than I am about the dd not wanting to be left alone with the guy. That scares me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 My dh often struggles to understand our now 14yo dd. However, he has never spoken to her in such a rude, inappropriate and disrespectful manner. This is not just something men do. I would ask your boyfriend if he thought it would not matter to you if he called your dd a B***h. If he acted like it was not a big deal, I would ask him why he never had the courage to do it when you were present. Then I would take your dd elsewhere for a day or two until the boyfriend could move out. End.of.story. To be fair, as girls age, they can get pretty mouthy and rude. She may well have been acting like a b***h. However, that is no excuse for him to refer to her in such a rude and degrading way. I think you have to ask yourself, if he would do that, which he knew to be wrong, while you were gone, what else might he be tempted to do while you were out? Corporal punishment? Sent to bed without dinner? The fact is that children who live in the same household with a mother's live-in boyfriend are much more likely to be abused. "... the co-author of a 1999 Canadian study that found that an American child living with one genetic parent and one step-parent or a live-in companion was 100 times as likely to suffer fatal abuse as a child living with two genetic parents." link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'm assuming this is the B word that ends in itch and not the one that ends in rat? The former would have me livid and would frankly be a tie breaker for me - esp. since it has happened twice and without you around (which to me means that he has plenty of self-control around you but lets it fly when you aren't there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Time for family counseling. For everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I wouldn't stay with any man feared by my children. There's a reason she's afraid of him. That would be the end of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'm assuming this is the B word that ends in itch and not the one that ends in rat? The former would have me livid and would frankly be a tie breaker for me - esp. since it has happened twice and without you around (which to me means that he has plenty of self-control around you but lets it fly when you aren't there). [bolding mine] Excellent point. I suppose one might argue that in some circles the b-word isn't considered so horrible (and I have heard people use it fairly casually), but if this were the case, he would have made that evident by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom24cuties Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Some answers to questions is there has never been a problem with him and her, they have always had a good relationship which is why I am floored, she has always been a happy child and her mood suddenly changed which alerted to me this. On the other hand their has always been tension between him and my oldest son, it got so bad at one point that he hit him(not spanked) and the next day I loaded up my van and drove 12 hours to my moms house. We were broken up for about 4 months and he swore that he changed and that he loved the kids and I and that he wanted us to be a family so he moved to where I was and things were good for a good 6 months, and now he has started cussing at the kids but hasn't put his hands on them outside of discipline. A few months ago I noticed that the tension between him and my son had started again so I asked my son what was going on and he said that daddy just yelled at him a lot so I got to the point where I wouldn't leave him alone with him, everytime I have to go somewhere I take my oldest with me. (btw he is 10) So now out of nowhere he has started lashing out on my daughter and this incident happeded the last time that I left the house. He has never been abusive to me in anyway, we hardly ever fight and he goes out of his way to make sure that I am happy. He treats the 2 boys we have together totally different. I know in my heart that I need to get my kids out of this situation because he is acting the same way he was when I left him the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I see a huge red flag. At minimum, I would NOT allow him around the kids, alone, for any reason. I think a trip to a specialized counselor is in order to see if any other information can be drawn out of her. Your children's safety trumps his income. If you are frightened of his reaction, stay with family or a friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinor Everywhere Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I don't think any of us can advise you without knowing more details -- but I would be very concerned that your dd doesn't want to be left alone with him. That is a huge red flag to me. Are you absolutely certain that he isn't abusing her in any other way? This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom24cuties Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 I wouldn't tolerate that, either. And if the guy is calling a 7yo a b****, I can't help but wonder if he also uses a similar term for the OP when he gets angry, and she lets him get away with it. It doesn't seem right that this would be a first-time occurrence in the household. He has never called me out of my name, as far as the way he treats ME, it is great. He goes out of his way to make me happy, all the problems we have revolves around the way he treats my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Some answers to questions is there has never been a problem with him and her, they have always had a good relationship which is why I am floored, she has always been a happy child and her mood suddenly changed which alerted to me this. On the other hand their has always been tension between him and my oldest son, it got so bad at one point that he hit him(not spanked) and the next day I loaded up my van and drove 12 hours to my moms house. We were broken up for about 4 months and he swore that he changed and that he loved the kids and I and that he wanted us to be a family so he moved to where I was and things were good for a good 6 months, and now he has started cussing at the kids but hasn't put his hands on them outside of discipline. A few months ago I noticed that the tension between him and my son had started again so I asked my son what was going on and he said that daddy just yelled at him a lot so I got to the point where I wouldn't leave him alone with him, everytime I have to go somewhere I take my oldest with me. (btw he is 10) So now out of nowhere he has started lashing out on my daughter and this incident happeded the last time that I left the house. He has never been abusive to me in anyway, we hardly ever fight and he goes out of his way to make sure that I am happy. He treats the 2 boys we have together totally different. I know in my heart that I need to get my kids out of this situation because he is acting the same way he was when I left him the first time. Is there a possibility of drug use? The sudden change in behavior and tension makes me wonder if that is causing mood swings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'm sorry, that must be very difficult. But you seem to already know what you have to do. You gave him a chance. Don't keep doing that. Yes, I think the answer is very clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderchica Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 After OP's update, I say leave. Soon. Do whatever you have to do to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 , am I being unreasonable to want him gone? pat yourself on the back you want him gone - and cut your losses. break-ups now are cheaper than divorces later. (and that includes potential suffering of your dd.) eta: some guys cannot handle having another man's children in their home. that can make them very dangerous to those children. at least emotionally, if not physically - but that is a real potential issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I know in my heart that I need to get my kids out of this situation because he is acting the same way he was when I left him the first time. Sounds like you have your answer. There are several red flags here. He's already acting this way and you're not even married yet. Problems like this usually get worse once you get married. Once you're married, a guy feels like he can relax and really be himself. I'm scared of what that will look like. Listen to your gut. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom24cuties Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'm assuming this is the B word that ends in itch and not the one that ends in rat? The former would have me livid and would frankly be a tie breaker for me - esp. since it has happened twice and without you around (which to me means that he has plenty of self-control around you but lets it fly when you aren't there). He never says anything out of the way to them when I am there. I sometimes overhear him saying hurtful things to them when he thinks I am out of earshot and I confront him right away, so I guess he just waits until I am sleep or gone to say things to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Please get out if you are afraid of him or if you have any suspicion that he is harming (verbal, physical, otherwise) your children. Move in with someone else if you need to, for safety reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 A relationship is not baseball. He doesn't get 3 strikes. He's outta there now, IIWM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexigail Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 So now out of nowhere he has started lashing out on my daughter I don't want to sound harsh because I'm sure this is a very confusing and painful situation everyone involved. But it isn't really out of the blue if there's a history of abusive behavior. Maybe your daughter hasn't experienced it before, but there's plenty here that points to a pattern that will probably escalate if something doesn't change. Also, there may be plenty that you don't know about if your kids are so hesitant to talk about it. I really hope that you find a way to get out of this situation once and for all, though I know that is a VERY hard decision and one you have to make for yourself. Good Luck to you and your kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 He never says anything out of the way to them when I am there. I sometimes overhear him saying hurtful things to them when he thinks I am out of earshot and I confront him right away, so I guess he just waits until I am sleep or gone to say things to them. This means that deep inside he is not a nice, kind, or loving guy. It means that he is a jerk who is really good at hiding it when he wants to. Get out and thank God every day that you made it. Tell your son and daughter that you love them and are so proud of them for telling the truth about what he was doing. Then get them some professional help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom24cuties Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 I am concerned that there may be more to the story than this. Why did he call her this name? How does he behave when they are home alone? Does she feel unsafe home alone because he is mean or because he has done something to make her uncomfortable> It may be only verbal abuse, or I wonder if he may have molested her or done something to make her uncomfortable. OP I would advise you to ask your dd specifically and calmly if he has touched her private areas or asked or required her to touch him, or if he has exposed himself to her or in some way made her uncomfortable. If she says yes, believe her. If it is "only" verbal abuse, I am still quite concerned. That's absolutely inappropriate. I would want to know why, and I would also make it crystal clear that such behavior is a deal breaker. Bottom line--if your dd is not safe being home alone with your fiancee, then you need to seek professional help ASAP. If he has hurt her in some way, do not stop to talk or debate or struggle over whether or not you believe it occurred or if it was "that bad." IF he hurt her, kick him out first (change the locks too) and then work with your daughter to understand the full truth and to protect her. She said that he has not touched her in any unappropriate way, he just yells at her a lot when I am not there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 He never says anything out of the way to them when I am there. I sometimes overhear him saying hurtful things to them when he thinks I am out of earshot and I confront him right away, so I guess he just waits until I am sleep or gone to say things to them. That's not healthy. I am afraid to say, he needs to leave. The children should come first. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Without knowing the details, it's really hard to say. Is he depressed? Sick? Is she AFRAID of being with him? I know when DH or I have been in a rotten mood, my kids have strongly preferred not to be in our company. This goes beyond rotten mood, obviously, but ykwim. If he's truly been her parent her whole life (versus just an adult who has been around), I'd encourage counseling for him and possibly parenting classes. If you have any gut feeling that there is more to the situation, take her to talk to someone. It also sounds like some couples counseling might be beneficial. Good luck. ETA: I started posting before the additional information was added. It sounds like you know what you need to do. Listen to your gut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I would insist on counseling before breaking the younger two away from their bio Dad. Finances will only be harder without him, so this would be an investment I would make ASAP! Edited: I had not read the further info. I change my answer to separation and counseling. It does sound like there could be an underlying medical issue like anxiety with bad coping skills fueling anger issues. In that case an MD and psychiatrist would need to be brought on board as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I know in my heart that I need to get my kids out of this situation because he is acting the same way he was when I left him the first time. Then you already have your answer. He had his one and only second chance and he's proved he will continue this behavior. Get your things in order and get you and your kids out. (Hugs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I would pack up or send him packing. I wouldn't consider getting back together with him unless he does some major overhaul on his parenting skills including counseling/therapy. When I read the title of this post, I was thinking it was a teen and he was telling you he thought she was a b***h. I cannot imagine any circumstance that would make it ever appropriate to call a young child that name. Between this with your dd, your older son's issues, and seeing obvious differences in how he treats your 2 youngest, I would definitely make a move that indicates you will not tolerate this. Verbal abuse is still abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Some answers to questions is there has never been a problem with him and her, they have always had a good relationship which is why I am floored, she has always been a happy child and her mood suddenly changed which alerted to me this. On the other hand their has always been tension between him and my oldest son, it got so bad at one point that he hit him(not spanked) and the next day I loaded up my van and drove 12 hours to my moms house. We were broken up for about 4 months and he swore that he changed and that he loved the kids and I and that he wanted us to be a family so he moved to where I was and things were good for a good 6 months, and now he has started cussing at the kids but hasn't put his hands on them outside of discipline. A few months ago I noticed that the tension between him and my son had started again so I asked my son what was going on and he said that daddy just yelled at him a lot so I got to the point where I wouldn't leave him alone with him, everytime I have to go somewhere I take my oldest with me. (btw he is 10) So now out of nowhere he has started lashing out on my daughter and this incident happeded the last time that I left the house. He has never been abusive to me in anyway, we hardly ever fight and he goes out of his way to make sure that I am happy. He treats the 2 boys we have together totally different. I know in my heart that I need to get my kids out of this situation because he is acting the same way he was when I left him the first time. Bolding is mine. You know what you need to do. What any of us here would do is irrelevant. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I know in my heart that I need to get my kids out of this situation because he is acting the same way he was when I left him the first time. :grouphug: Be strong and do the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runbikeswim Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 He needs to go. Sorry. I think deep down you know this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 [quote name='mom24cuties' timestamp='1363123805' post='4755123' she has always been a happy child and her mood suddenly changed which alerted to me this. their has always been tension between him and my oldest son, it got so bad at one point that he hit him(not spanked) We were broken up for about 4 months and he swore that he changed and that he loved the kids A few months ago I noticed that the tension between him and my son had started again So now out of nowhere he has started lashing out on my daughter I know in my heart that I need to get my kids out of this situation because he is acting the same way he was when I left him the first time. okay - cut losses THEN seek counseling for yourself and learn how to stand up for yourself and all of your children and not put up with this from anyone. he will always claim he's sorry and that he won't do it again and it will all just be a repeat cycle. (I would guess things have been going on for more than just the last year.) when deep down inside yourself you believe you and your children are worth being treated better than this, you will not second guess yourself if you should leave him or not. you will just boot him out the door. because you, and your children, are worth being treated better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 He wouldn't be my fiance anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4kidlets4me Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 The locks would be changed in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 He had a second chance. He blew it. Get him out, mama. Yesterday. You will teach your children immeasurable things by getting them out of this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StartingOver Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Nothing on this earth is worth that. I would boot him, or pack up my kids and leave. I would never tolerate anyone doing that, even their own father. To me it is very simple. No matter what it took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzymom Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 The sneakiness of going after the kids when out of your range would make me a crazy lady. Your 10 year old son and 7 year old daughter are afraid of him, and clearly you are afraid of his behavior since you have left once and still cannot leave your 10 year old with him. This will not get better. It will get worse. Separate. If you want to get counseling, on your own or together, then by all means do. But first put some physical distance between your children and your boyfriend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I think you know what to do. Is this how you want your sons to treat their future children - the way daddy treats them? Do you want your daughter to believe that this is way a man SHOULD treat those who are dependent on him? Because if you stay, they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 You already know what to do. And you went to your mom's once before, can she help you again? You need to get out of that situation ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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