At my wit's end with DS12. Any advice welcome. UPDATE at #149

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Staying out of the sun = vitamin D deficiency unless you've been very carefully supplementing and having his levels checked from time to time.

 

Make sure the doctor includes vitamin D level analysis in the blood work. Make sure his vitamins have enough calcium and magnesium, too, because the three work together.

 

I have lupus and I've spent lots of time on steroids for it, plus staying out of the sun. My vitamin D levels stink because my doctor didn't know to supplement.

[Catwoman]

I'm thinking that I'll start calling around for a brand new ped and get someone with fresh eyes.

 

 

I think that's a very good idea. And you don't have to restrict yourself to pediatricians. Sometimes a good family practitioner can be a great option, because they deal with people of all ages, with all sorts of ailments and issues.

[elegantlion]

Lack of sun exposure can create a Vit D deficiency and that can have depression symptoms. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Whatever the cause, physical or mental, there is a real emotional issue at hand. I know you know that, it's just hard to read about a professional using the excuse to "get over it". I've been dealing with depression and I've had one well-meaning person tell me to just "not be depressed". They are hopeful and trying to comfort because they don't know to fix the situation. I would not expect that pat answer from a physician.

 

eta: posting same time as Tibbie.

[sheryl]

..

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Well, take this for what it's worth. It "does" sound like he has not mastered concepts from previous years. I can definitely see where that would cause a child to "clam up". Other considerations: neuropsychological evaluation? Allergies? And, lastly, it does sound like he may be adhd. If none of those, then I'd say behavioral/emotional. I had my dd tested in all of the above and the information have been a good resource. She is on Intuniv for adhd which is a "NON-stim" med to help with focus, etc. I choose non-stim b/c she was first prescribed a stim adhd which caused aggression issues...that of course is not acceptable for anyone's sake. The Intun has worked wonders for dd. I've heard to fully determine if a med will work well it may take 1-2 months. Everyone metabolizes me ds differently, so even though my dd responds to Intun, your ds may "need" another med. I would suggest a non-stim first and then take it from there. Lastly, IF it is behave/emot, your ds may benefit from counseling/therapy. Lastly again :) - unfortunately this is an age where many pre/teens test their parents by pushing their buttons. It sounds like he has you over a barrel. No disrespect intended! Would he take more responsibility in a "group" setting like a co-op or group study group, etc? Maybe you or a friend could start a group for 12-14 yo maybe 2x/wk. Maybe for 3 hours they could work on their school, projects, etc. Of course you need a location, people and parent involvement/supervision. HTH!

 

 

Sheryl, the OP's post that you quoted requested no quoting in case she wants to delete it later.

[sheryl]

.

[Guest inoubliable]

Staying out of the sun = vitamin D deficiency unless you've been very carefully supplementing and having his levels checked from time to time.

 

Make sure the doctor includes vitamin D level analysis in the blood work. Make sure his vitamins have enough calcium and magnesium, too, because the three work together.

 

I have lupus and I've spent lots of time on steroids for it, plus staying out of the sun. My vitamin D levels stink because my doctor didn't know to supplement.

 

Lack of sun exposure can create a Vit D deficiency and that can have depression symptoms. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Whatever the cause, physical or mental, there is a real emotional issue at hand. I know you know that, it's just hard to read about a professional using the excuse to "get over it". I've been dealing with depression and I've had one well-meaning person tell me to just "not be depressed". They are hopeful and trying to comfort because they don't know to fix the situation. I would not expect that pat answer from a physician.

 

eta: posting same time as Tibbie.

 

 

I didn't even think of that. Not one doctor mentioned it. :crying: Not anyone's fault here, definitely, but I'm starting to feel like such a...shit...for not seeing so much of this, or not connecting some of these dots! And I've been spending the last few years nagging and yelling at this kid thinking it's just laziness. *sigh* He does take B12 as a supplement because of his vegan diet. He's very careful about what he eats. I have to say that he's probably the healthiest kid eater I've ever seen. He's very "into" his vegan diet and has spent a lot of time looking up nutrient requirements, recipes, meal plans. He likes coming up with new combos for his protein shakes that he does in the morning. This all rolls over into his interest in cooking. No dairy here, so he doesn't grab his Vit D from fortified cow milk. I will have the doctor check this, and the magnesium levels.

[Catwoman]

KK, don't beat yourself up over this.

 

It's always easier to come up with ideas and suggestions when you're on the outside looking in. It's totally different when you live with the situation day in and day out. It's almost impossible to be objective and to think outside the box, when you're just trying to get through the day. :grouphug:

[Audrey]

I don't know your son, KK, so please take this in the spirit of trying to help (but feel free to totally toss out everything I have to say). Based on what you've written, my action plan would be:

 

- sit with son every minute of every lesson -- walk him through each question, make sure he writes his answer before moving to the next one. For. Every. Subject.

- get son outside and moving and be with him every minute of it to be sure he gets plenty of exercise.

- take above exercise breaks frequently -- every couple of hours is a good start. Go more or less as need seems to dictate.

- get a learning assessment to see if learning disabilities might be a factor. If not, keep at the above until you start to see him able to move on to the next item by himself. If LDs are a factor, get him the help he needs, then bone up on his issues so that you can tailor your teaching style to his learning needs.

 

My ds still dawdles with his work sometimes. He isn't going to sit there and work through most assignments without at least some supervision and sometimes direct coaching. He's 13. It has improved a lot in the last year or so, but he still needs instruction and supervision to excel. It's better for our relationship, too. If I don't supervise, he thinks I don't care about the work he has produced, and he will especially be put off if someone doesn't check his work and give him feedback. He feels like he did that for nothing, then.

 

Last thing... you said that at the beginning of school years, teachers praised him. Then, he'd shut down. So, don't praise him. Don't tell him he's bright, he's special, he's clever, he's charming. Don't praise HIM. Instead, praise what he does, what he produces. If he completes an assignment brilliantly, praise the assignment. "This is a very good essay," for example, instead of "you're a great writer." Positive personal affirmation seems to be a trigger to his shutting down. Don't feed into that.

[Guest inoubliable]

Last thing... you said that at the beginning of school years, teachers praised him. Then, he'd shut down. So, don't praise him. Don't tell him he's bright, he's special, he's clever, he's charming. Don't praise HIM. Instead, praise what he does, what he produces. If he completes an assignment brilliantly, praise the assignment. "This is a very good essay," for example, instead of "you're a great writer." Positive personal affirmation seems to be a trigger to his shutting down. Don't feed into that.

 

Loved the advice, and I think that some outdoor exercise would be helpful. The quoted advice was an eye-opener. I hadn't thought of that at all. Great idea.

[Guest inoubliable]

Oh, sorry. I'm really not good with all of this stuff. Tell me where and I can delete it now. Thanks.

 

I think you just delete it out in edit mode. Thank you for understanding. Never know who could run across what on the internet these days, you know?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Everybody who has ever had a health problem, or who has ever had a kid with a health problem, has had to become their own medical expert, KK. I don't know why, but evidently protocol nowadays is to figure it all out yourself and then inform your doctor what you think and demand the necessary tests. Oh, and then know how to interpret them, yourself.

 

This process leads to guilt, shame, anxiety, frustration, and anger, but hey. It's how we learn.

 

This nation needs 3 million more patient advocates. That would be really nice.

[jhschool]

He sounds like a gifted kid who is bored.

 

You mentioned his IQ tests were close to gifted.

 

I will bet you anything that he is gifted and is not being

stimulated the way he needs.

 

I'll write more later--gotta run...

[Audrey]

Staying out of the sun = vitamin D deficiency unless you've been very carefully supplementing and having his levels checked from time to time.

 

Make sure the doctor includes vitamin D level analysis in the blood work. Make sure his vitamins have enough calcium and magnesium, too, because the three work together.

 

I have lupus and I've spent lots of time on steroids for it, plus staying out of the sun. My vitamin D levels stink because my doctor didn't know to supplement.

Lack of sun exposure can create a Vit D deficiency and that can have depression symptoms. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Whatever the cause, physical or mental, there is a real emotional issue at hand. I know you know that, it's just hard to read about a professional using the excuse to "get over it". I've been dealing with depression and I've had one well-meaning person tell me to just "not be depressed". They are hopeful and trying to comfort because they don't know to fix the situation. I would not expect that pat answer from a physician.

 

eta: posting same time as Tibbie.

KK, don't beat yourself up over this.

 

It's always easier to come up with ideas and suggestions when you're on the outside looking in. It's totally different when you live with the situation day in and day out. It's almost impossible to be objective and to think outside the box, when you're just trying to get through the day. :grouphug:

 

The outside time I suggest is exactly because of the above and yes... don't beat yourself up over this. When people come on and ask for advice on how to fix a situation that isn't going right that is a GOOD THING. That is the RIGHT thing to do as a parent. It also takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there. Sometimes it hurts to hear things that you think you should have known. Honestly, though, are we supposed to know it all? No.

 

I said this is another thread, but this parenting gig... it's a crapshoot. You get the kids you get and then you do the best you can. Sometimes you get smacked with surprises you never saw coming. A good parent tries to find ways to deal with it, fix it, improve it. A dumbass just sits there and does nothing.

[Mommy22alyns]

Um, if he had a suicide attempt at 9, that's not going to just go away. He needs to be seen by someone who will take that (literally) deadly seriously.

[Guest inoubliable]

Um, if he had a suicide attempt at 9, that's not going to just go away. He needs to be seen by someone who will take that (literally) deadly seriously.

 

 

I'm learning more about that as of this thread. I had no idea! All the doctors gave him an all-clear, you know?

[Luckymama]

I don't have any wisdom or advice to share, just a :grouphug: and a virtual glass of wine/cupcake vodka/shot of tequila. Don't beat yourself up.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

university or peds hospital child study team immediately if not sooner.

 

fresh air and vitamin d are not the issue here.

 

 

Every single poster who mentioned that lack of sunshine leads to vitamin deficiency also recommended swift evaluation by health care professionals.

[Orthodox6]

KK, did you receive my PM?

[Guest inoubliable]

KK, did you receive my PM?

 

Just now seeing it. :)

[Audrey]

university or peds hospital child study team immediately if not sooner.

 

fresh air and vitamin d are not the issue here.

 

No one said it was. But, hey, what a nice dismissal of detailed multifaceted, thoughtful suggestions through out of context reductionism.

[Whereneverever]

With the praise thing, read this. It's quick. http://www.worth.com/index.php/component/content/article/2908

 

Audrey is spot on with the praise thing.

[tex-bex]

I just wanna give you big hugs and say that I have enjoyed reading all the responses in this thread. Lots of insight here, good stuff.

 

Sounds like you're gearing up to fight for your boy and leave no stone unturned. You'll find it. All the docs are just giving their opinions. If they don't sit right with you - because *you* know him best - keep looking.

 

Hang in there. I find your openness and grit inspiring. :)

[Sisyphus]

If it makes you feel better, I understand the issues around moving so much. Dh is military- we move a lot. And I hear "we don't have enough of a history to treat xyz" and then I hear "with a history of xyz, why haven't you done abc?" pretty regularly.

 

We are either too new to address some issues, or remiss for not addressing them, I literally feel I can't win some days. Of course no one listens to me, the mother, or god forbid, my son, the patient.

 

It is very hard.

[sparrow]

Chiming in late, but earlier this week I posted about how my 12 yo son started splitting wood with my husband. My jaw hit the floor when dh said they were heading to pick out an axe for him, but really the change was pretty miraculous after only a few days of swinging the axe out in the sun and snow. It's been a long winter.

 

My son requires me to sit with him for most school subjects. Otherwise, he will be engineering buildings in his head. He also has diagnosed LDs and is very bright.

 

:grouphug: I hope you can find some answers for your family.

[ktgrok]

 

 

 

He has recently shown an aptitude for cooking. He seems to enjoy it. Maybe I can work with that somehow?

 

 

 

YES!!!! Watch some cooking shows with him. Some of the more drama filled ones like Top Chef, but also the good ones on PBS. "More Fast Food My Way" has Jaques Pepin, and the meals are very simple, perfect for him to try. Cooking involves some math, and reading. Get him a cookbook (let him pick it out). Reading recipes would be GREAT for him! You can work on them together. And if he really starts liking it look into shadowing a chef at a fancy restaurant or something. Let him tour a culinary school.

 

Oh! And if he likes food, you can watch some travel shows like Rick Steves' Europe, and they talk a lot about the food, but he will also learn about culture, geography, etc.

[jenn-]

You have been given some great advice from everyone here. I have seen a lot of suggestions to push the interest in cooking. As much as I agree with that, don't make it look like pressure. I have a DD that I think would make a wonderful artist, but at the first mention of taking a class on it she clams up and refuses anything art like for awhile. Ask him if he wants to make a meal for the family. Not necessarily lunch every single day, but maybe dinner one night randomly. Just make sure he knows to get you the grocery list for whatever he decides before grocery day. If he doesn't want the pressure of cooking for everyone else, show him how to scale down a recipe so it just makes some for him. He might fear feeding you a horrible meal if it is something he has never made before so let him have a test run.

 

This also goes with the guitar bit. My DD picked up the piano and I refused to force her to practice. This was something she wanted to do so I shouldn't have to remind her (I would casually mention her lesson a couple of days in advance). After a few weeks of a disappointed look from her teacher, she figured out that maybe she really should practice. That said she has gotten herself to a point that her piano teacher was boring her to death with the music selection and she completely stopped playing what she was assigned. Granted she was teaching herself Bach and Beethoven pieces instead. Now her little brother takes piano lessons and she just works on whatever she wants. Had I forced her to sit down at that piano for 30 minutes each and every day at the beginning, she would have grown to resent it instead of forming a natural love for the instrument.

 

ETA: Just thought I would mention that my examples are from my ADD diagnosed daughter who could easily sit at the table for HOURS doing 4-5 math problems until she was finally put on medicines at the beginning of last school year. Although she could "read" in the academic sense, she couldn't remember what she had read at the beginning of the page much less a couple of pages and then be expected to answer questions. She spent many of days crying she was too stupid to understand and giving me the cries of "I don't know" to many answers. I feel horrible now looking back that we held off on the drugs for as long as we did.

[Garga]

It's been said over and over, but I'll add my own 2 cents, just to concur with everyone else. (And I'm only 1/2 thru all the responses.)

 

First of all, if there's depression, keep pursing doctors who will listen. I know nothing about depression, so I can't speak to that.

 

In the meanwhile, your school sounds horribly boring. You simply cannot sit a kid down and say, "Over the next month, research this topic," and expect them to do it. You cannot give them science and math sheets and expect anything to be done. Not with his history, anyway. You'll have to lead your guy step by step with everything that's done.

 

My kids are only 7 and 10, but I think you need to do a mixture of going backward with your son and forward. For the going backward part, you may have to school more like this:

 

My children do not read from their science books alone. I read it with them. Out loud. Every other paragraph is me, then them. Every 3 or 4 sentences I ask them what we read, or explain something they didn't understand. We discuss endlessly. And I keep the iPad nearby to look up pictures or videos, whatever I'm thinking as we're reading. The other day, we stopped reading science to watch an old "She Blinded Me With Science" video. That's ok. It's ok to have fun in the middle of study.

 

My children do not read their grammar books alone. We read every other paragraph out loud to each other.

 

My children do not read their "literature" on their own. They read books like Diary of a Wimpy Kid (you mentioned your son like that) on their own, but I read their literature out loud. Every paragraph or so, I ask questions to be sure they're listening. We've read "Enders Game," "Treasure Island," "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" and a few others so far this year. I would count both the books you read to him and the books he reads on his own as reading.

 

My 10 yo is just able to do a math sheet on his own. For the 7 yo, I sit next to him for each problem. On bad days, he will tell me the answer and I write it in for him. (Because if he has the pencil, he starts to draw elaborate pictures.)

 

Ok--that was going backward--with you sitting right next to him for everything.

 

Here's the going forward. Get you and him out of the mindset of traditional "school." Think in new ways. Here's how:

 

Cooking is school. It's home ec. At this point, I wouldn't have him do cooking alone yet. I'd work closely with him, teaching him everything you know. It sounds like this boy needs someone to come along side him. Someone mentioned up-thread about having him cook a couple of meals a week. Ok--but not for 6 months. Until then, side-by-side. Make this official. Don't just squeeze it in when it's convenient. Make it a priority. He's shown actual interest in something! Run with it!

 

Music is school. You don't buy him a guitar because he does school. You buy him a guitar because it is school. It's a required subject in my state of PA. Get him lessons with the folk people or the cool guy (as someone said up thread.)

 

Yoga is school. It's PE. Get him in a class, or have the entire family do it together.

 

NaNoWriMo is waaaaaay too much. That was a mistake. I won't recommend any particular programs at this time, because I don't know of one that would fit your son. My kids don't really like their program, but do it anyway.

 

I teach logic. RIght now, I use books of Perplexors and we play thinking board games, like checkers, marrakech, and quixo (google them). I totally count playing those board games as school. Playing candyland? Nope. But checkers? You bet. We used to play Scrabble in school as a class. If it was good enough for the 1980's, it's good enough for today!

 

Now, how do you do this? To get all the schooling done with my boys, I work with one and then the other. I work with Ds7 on math while ds10 plays. Then we switch. Then it's science with ds7 while ds10 plays, then we switch.

 

Also, when you do this, do a subject they don't like, then a subject they do like, then one they don't like...back and forth.

 

And once you have a plan, tell your son. Give him a head's up that you're doing these things for him.

 

Note; if he ends up disliking something you thought he loved (like cooking) that's ok. Assess that he's not jut momentarily bored with it. If he's momentarily bored, try to keep him going. But if he really hates it, let it go. I've tried a number of hobbies I thought I'd like, only to find out I really hate them. You'll have to assess that as it comes up.

[TXMomof4]

 

 

 

 

I'd go with maybe something even easier like Time4Learning, supposedly it goes through 6th(?) grade. So he could use it to catch up. He might hate it, but you can subscribe just for one month and see. It would be a way to see if online works for him. If it does, there are quite a few options out there for online learning.

 

I agree!!! K12 is a pretty intense curriculum. And through a charter you will have other requirements aside from the K12 part (test prep, online class times, etc.).

 

I've no other advice, just wanted to mention that!

[SKL]

I agree that he sounds depressed or some variant thereof.

 

I think my approach would be to try to better understand your DH and what makes him tick and what doesn't. It sounds like there could be something inherited here, and maybe this would help you to identify an effective intervention. (ETA, sorry, I misunderstood and now realize your DH is not his bio dad. Were the learning issues with bio dad or DH? Maybe this is completely irrelevant.)

 

Meanwhile, I would try to build learning upon something he is interested in, be it pets, gardening, mountain climbing, whatever.

 

I think I would take a complete break from whatever you are doing and do something radically different, such as outdoor science lab (nature hikes with discussion). Would he be a good candidate for a club that emphasizes physical activity in groups? Something to get those creative and social juices flowing a bit.

 

Ever shared My Friend Flicka (the book) with your child? It has a boy of similar age who could never concentrate on schoolwork and did poorly in school. All he could think about was the horse he wanted, and his parents were holding out until he learned some "responsibility." Eventually the parents change their mind, the boy gets a horse, the boy learns important stuff and matures through his experience with the horse. I wonder if a story like this would inspire your son in some way.

 

Good luck - sounds like you have a big challenge on your hands.

[LucyStoner]

university or peds hospital child study team immediately if not sooner.

 

fresh air and vitamin d are not the issue here.

 

 

Having experienced crippling depression and having had MDs write it off, let me state very clearly that diet and vitamins are not to be overlooked. I am not exaggerating when I say that getting my Vit D in the normal range was a huge part of my recovery. Unless you have felt the difference you have no idea. Is it a magic bullet? No. Should she NOT seek a team of great providers in favor of stopping at Super Supplements? Of course not. Still, it is often a big fat piece of the puzzle.

[LucyStoner]

 

I'm learning more about that as of this thread. I had no idea! All the doctors gave him an all-clear, you know?

 

 

If you take nothing else from this thread it is that whatever doctors told you this are jerks who were/are completely off the mark, to the point of being dangerous. He deserves to see someone who is both competent and not a jerk. Keep trying tell you find someone who will listen.

 

If you give me the names of the doctors, I will go punch them all in the face for you. :)

 

I will also add, while it is not popular, that I personally could never really find more than one MD to treat depression in any way that was more than a weak bandaid. Then he moved, of course :) I am not anti-doctors or western medicine but the combination that has worked for me is an ND at a center for complimentary medicine, combined with a Nurse Practitioner who is also a LMHC. Before anyone flames me for being kooky, my husband works in a hospital, we take our kids to a pediatrician (who is awesome) and it was our NP midwife and the MD I started to see but was moving away who recommended the ND. I was skeptical, but it worked. Don't take the doctor's word as infallible He or she does not know your son like you do and he or she is flat out incompetent to not be more concerned about a child who has a history of suicide attempts. There are great doctors but there are some that just aren't up to snuff.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I would encourage, but not pressure, the interest in Legos and cooking. Would he be interested in Lego League or Mindstorms? As far as cooking, would he be interested in nutrition books, shows, or podcasts?

 

Since he's mentioned headaches and vision problems, perhaps try audio books and podcasts in different areas. He could listen to them while he plays Legos.

 

I would strongly encourage you to find an integrative medicine doctor to treat possible vitamin deficiencies and insomnia. I've had insomnia for seven years now and my motivation level is strongly correlated to how well I sleep and feel. I often notice my motivation to exercise or be otherwise productive drop a few days before I hit a rough patch or a relapse. It's the first warning sign for me. If he's not sleeping well and has health issues, plus vision problems, no wonder he isn't motivated to do school work.

 

Is there any chance he's having some sort of seizures? While I have no experience with them, I'm pretty sure another person on this board mentioned in a thread sometime that some people have seizures where they space out, rather than jerk around.

 

I agree with other posters that perhaps he's also extremely bored with his work because it's too easy. Does he like to watch documentaries? Maybe he'd like listening to some Great Courses from the library or TED talk podcasts and videos?

 

 

 

I'd be looking for a spark of some kind, and some sense of self-worth and accomplishment, before I'd sit down to that school desk again. Seek answers to the school puzzle and never give up, but in the meantime, see if you can first unlock your son.

 

 

I agree with Tibbie.

[Garga]

I posted up thread before reading all the responses. After I posted a long list of suggestions, I read the rest of the responses and saw that you were stating to feel really bad, KK, and thinking that you had been failing as a parent. No! Sometimes you're so close to a situation that you can't see the forest for all the trees. But now you've come to the right place. Pretty much any of the suggestions here will help you, so pick some that you can work into your life and go from there.

 

Don't let yourself get overwhelmed. Just quietly and gently start changing things.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

I would make sure the vision exam is from a good covd doctor, covd.org. You can ask on the special needs board for recommendations. I have known children who have received vision therapy, their parents said it made a huge difference for them.

 

The early motivation followed by shutting down could also be hope squashed because of some kind of underlying problem--vision or other. You can give him some of reading grade level/reading assessment tests to help determine if there might be an underlying reading problem. From my testing page, give the NRRF reading grade level test, then the 8th, 10th, and 12th grade level tests at the bottom of that page if he misses 1 or less on all grades of the NRRF test. I would also give the MWIA level II, here is the link, my current link is not working, and we are still recovering from a move.

 

http://www.donpotter.net/pdf/mwia.pdf

 

For the MWIA, do pages 7 and 8 and time each page separately. He should not miss more than 1 word on either page and the times should be within 10% of each other. Also, a WPM rate of below 70 might indicate a problem.

 

If he is reading below 12th grade level or there are problems with the MWIA, I would also give the New Elizabethian Test to see how he does with nonsense words.

[Catwoman]

Excuse me, but a pediatrician does not know squat about psychological or psychiatric issues.

 

Reported Heidi572.

 

She's copying others' posts and reposting them as her own in multiple threads. This time she copied part of Orthodox6's post from this afternoon.

 

Don't feed the trolls!

[Greenmama2]

Have you consider a sleep study? If he's going to bed at 9 and still exhausted at 11am, unmedicated, I would consider that abnormal, unless during the occasional growth spurt.

 

This all screams sleep apnea to me.

 

Yes and yes. Needing 14 hours sleep at that age really doesn't sound normal to me. I'm glad you are looking into a sleep study.

[swellmomma]

I have not read all the replies yet so forgive me if this has already been said or addressed by others.

 

You are describing my 2 oldest kids. DD13 was the one in ps that had teachers convinced she didn't know anything (for example teacher was sure she could not read, I was getting constant phone calls and letters about not doing her home reading with her). That is until I secretly videotaped her reading little house on the prairie and showed the teacher. She also would do nothing in class, and refused to comply with transitions. She was only in 1st grade had daily detention, and 1 suspension, no recess, no fieldtrips etc all because she would do nothing. DS14 was my boy that struggled in school, was being promoted even though he did not know the work, and now is the one that refuses to do work the most. It is not fun, our homeschool is not what I imagined. Many days I think I would be better off sending him back to ps, and frankly I would be BUT I also know that no teacher would put into him what I am willing to and the teachers would let him not bother, after all I saw that with dd.

 

He is improving but it is slow going, and results in many a match. In regards to ds he does not accomplish in a day what I would like him to, nor what I think he is capable of, but we are seeing progress. This is due to a couple things,

 

A) I had him sit down with college admissions people last year at homeschool conference. When he realized that he had not option of college without doing school he started to do more, not enough yet imo but it was an improvement. He also recently found out that his plan to wait until 18 to join the army wouldn't work either as he would need a minimum of 10th grade to join. Conference this year is in 6 weeks and I will be doing the same thing to light that fire again.

 

B) he got a job. He works in fast food and does not want to be stuck with that forever, but without his education he may as well get used to asking "would you like fries with that?" As well he needs to be proficient in basic math and reading skills, he made a huge jump this year with lit but math is lagging still.

 

C) I refuse to quit riding his butt until it is done. I will not back down. He thinks he can put it off all day until I give in. I don't. I have sat there with him at the table making him finish his work until 3am. We were both exhausted, I am sure he didn't actually retain it, those sessions were more about outlasting him than actually learning. He needed to see that no matter what I will not back down.

 

D) I turn into bad cop when necessary. Since xmas we have been having issues with ds due to his xbox use. His father gave him games I don't allow at xmas and told him that he didn't have to follow my rules about game use because he was old enough to decide when and what he played. Problem is ds has video game addiction issues. It had been a major battle ground after that, I finally had made headway with ds again and his dad bought him yet another inappropriate game on his last visit. The xbox is now hidden. Ds was not sleeping, eating, bathing, doing school or chores etc in order to play those stupid games. He was surly and nasty and mean to everyone. xbox is now gone. He has not really done much school for the last 3 days because he has been having insane meltdowns about it. But like point C above I am not going to bend on this one. I did this once before. It took about 2 weeks for him to get used to the new normal and he actually jumped nearly a grade level in the next 4 weeks because he was better focused and really working hard on school. I had started allowing some video game use again but limited and restricted what games he could use. This time there is a high chance I will simply send his machine to his dad's and no longer allow it at home period.

 

E), I told ds outright I was not going to jail just so he could skip out on his education. He may not care one way or the other if he learns anything, but the law states he must get an education either at home or at school, and he doesn't want to return to ps so he needs to be doing school work at home because it is the law. Now the likelyhood of that actually going to court is slim to none but I don't care, the law states he must be in school until age 16, (I have not told him the age 16 bit yet), and I do not break the law (much...not counting speeding here).

 

F) I enrolled them in extracurrics that make a point of expecting good school work done, Both dd13's dance teacher and the cadets leaders both kids have, refuse to allow participants to join into the special events if they are not doing well in school. IN the case of dance that means the 3 special reward days (.like during xmas break the girls that reached their stretch minutes goals got a sleepover at the studio, however if they were not doing well in school even if they got their stretch minutes they were not allowed to stay), in cadets that means missing range days or FTX trips, those 2 things are the favorite activities of almost all the cadets. Having them accountable to an outside source has worked well. They would not do work in school when accountable to the teacher but having this group of leadership say "no school, no fun" has helped.

 

Lastly, looping back to conference, Ds loved conference last year and can't wait for this year's. But I told him if he isn't doing his school work I will put him back in ps, and if in ps he can not go to the homeschool conference. Last time I warned him of that he blew through 4 assignments in about an hour or so.

 

DD has simply matured enough to realize, no school means no college, no college means she gets to keep living here forever. I make sure she understands that means lots of sing alongs with me, helping watch the younger kids as they grow, no dating because who wants to date a stupid girl?, no job, no money, no travel and no horse etc. That is enough to get her back on track. She is an extremely smart girl but she will opt for the easy way out if she can.

 

When it comes to the 2, ds14 has many learning issues, dd13 has none, but both were heading down the wrong path educationally speaking. There is improvements but still much more to do to get them where I think she could/should be. It is a work in progress. My homeschool will never be that fun place of being done school by 1pm and spending the afternoon crafting and playing games etc. Somedays are pure torture to me. But my oldest graduates in 3.5 years and I can see he is on the right path if he keeps his eye on the prize. It may mean no latin, or extras that I want for him, but he will have his graduation requirements done one way or another even if it means I have to outlast him daily between now and then. I will not let him sabotage his own future due to childhood pigheadedness.

[lllll]

:grouphug:

[Guest inoubliable]

UPDATE (and small victory already): DS12 woke up at the same time that everyone else did today. On his own. He was pleasant, not cranky. That alone blew my mind today. While I'm certain that this is because he heard more than he should have yesterday, DH and I are thinking that maybe this shows a willingness to work *with* us and maybe he sees that we're on *his* side. I'm drinking that down with my coffee because it's such a delicious flavor to think of.

Called the eye doctor and asked if there were any cancellations so that I could move DS's appointment up. Not yet, but I'm on a super secret post-it note to call if anyone does cancel between now and appointment time. Next call is to the insurance company and then, hopefully, to some new doctor's offices.

DH and I spent some time last night revamping some plans for DS's next school year and this year. DS has expressed that he wants to continue reading his Story of Science book, and so now we're adding some science DVDs that were recommended by some of you here. DH has decided on a Lego table! DS has been asking for one for a couple of years but we've never really had a place to put one. We just rearranged his room a couple of days ago, though, and there is room now. DH is going to surprise him tomorrow by going up to ReStore to pick up the wood and they're going to spend as much (or as little) time working on it this weekend. I'm ordering baseplates today. And won't he be surprised to get a huge bag of Lego historical minifigs in the mail sometime next week. :) (Oh, I know some mentioned looking at a step-father relationship issue. There isn't one. :) DH has been DS's father since before DS was a year old. Bio father is not and has never been in the picture. In fact, he signed away his parental rights just after DH and I got married and the adoption was finalized a few months later. DS and DH celebrate their own "birth day" in August - just the two of them - based on the date of the papers. They are very close and neither one has ever considered the other less than a "real" father or "real" son.)

 

Thanks for helping me think outside the box. Thank you for giving me so many outside perspectives. Thank you for sharing your own experiences. Thank you for being gentle, well-meaning, and loving.

 

I see now that I've been expecting the wrong things out of this kid, that I've trusted doctors who didn't know my kid like I know my kid and I didn't trust my instincts, and that I was blinded by frustration so much that I wasn't seeing clearly. Thank you.

[elegantlion]

 

 

I see now that I've been expecting the wrong things out of this kid, that I've trusted doctors who didn't know my kid like I know my kid and I didn't trust my instincts, and that I was blinded by frustration so much that I wasn't seeing clearly. Thank you.

 

Your update just brought a tear to my eye. What an excellent plan.

[unsinkable]

If you call the insurance co, ask if you need a referral for a neuropsych eval. It is comprehensive testing, much more than what happens in most school testing.

 

(Hugs)

[SKL]

 

No idea. His pediatrician here saw him in September and refused to give us a referral to a child psychologist. He told DS12 to "get with the program" and then told me that DS12 needed a good kick in the butt. Other doctors before him have said as much. They say he's not depressed. One said that he was "willfully defiant".

 

Whoa. I'll tell ya who needs a kick in the butt. :cursing:

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Thanks for helping me think outside the box. Thank you for giving me so many outside perspectives. Thank you for sharing your own experiences. Thank you for being gentle, well-meaning, and loving.

 

I see now that I've been expecting the wrong things out of this kid, that I've trusted doctors who didn't know my kid like I know my kid and I didn't trust my instincts, and that I was blinded by frustration so much that I wasn't seeing clearly. Thank you.

 

 

 

I'm glad this morning came with some sunshine.

[unsinkable]

 

I definitely feel dismissive of all this online diagnosis and ridiculous homeschool woo for a kid who needs critical intervention and should have had it eons ago. Im pretty disgusted by the "medical care" the OP has been subjected to as well.

 

I am only surprised no one has suggested going gluten free or trying the GAPS diet. Or maybe they did and I missed it. But thankfully I see we have hit the critical points, from vitamin D to gifted and bored!

 

 

FWIW,

 

I didn't take your post as dismissive at all.

 

My first post was very brief bc I PMd KKinVA a bunch of other ideas based on personal experience I didn't want to go into right now.

 

 

[briansmama]

Back, and I've apparently run out of "likes" for the day. Again.

 

This is my plan so far:

• eye doc appt

• ped appt to request some bloodwork done and discuss a multivitamin

• keeping his set bedtime, start a set wake time

• pick up a guitar somewhere and try to find affordable lessons

• look into swim lessons

• "deschool" for a while - have some discussions on goal setting and see what his thoughts are, if any at this point

• keep to a schedule of wake time, personal hygiene, chores, "deschool" time. I'll try to keep his interests up in anything I can spot a spark in - Legos, science DVDs, maybe an online class in website coding

• when we do start school - the three Rs, back to a level he feels comfortable with, at the dining room table, 100% involved at all times with him

• look into sleep study

• encourage the cooking (I've started that tonight in telling him that the new mini-food processor is actually for me AND him. He seemed surprised but pleased at this and asked if he could watch a new video that a favorite vegan food blogger just put out.)

• pay more attention to artificial colors/flavors in our food.

 

Still reading through responses and adding to my list of things to talk with DH about when he gets home. I quietly picked up my teacher's manual and DS's school books right before dinner and put them away - in the same place that I keep our books from other school years. He raised an eyebrow at this but didn't say a word. He just sat their very quietly and looked like he was thinking. DS8 came over and gave me a hug and said, "I'm sorry you cried today." :crying: I was hoping they hadn't noticed. DS12 saw/heard that, too. He didn't say anything but he came into the kitchen and wordlessly started helping. I don't know if it's too early to hope, but I'm going to take that small bit as progress. I need it.

 

 

Great plan, and wanted to add a few thoughts here- first, I'd get bloodwork, stool, and urine analysis done (it's pretty painless and can tell you a lot). Our ND found an abnormal bacteria in our ds stool and urine that causes malabsorption of vital nutrients. We cleared it with high level antioxidants within weeks.

 

Also wanted to add that a sleep study may not be necessary once his labwork is read.

 

Have you thought of working with a ND or integrative doctor instead of a pediatrician? Our ND is integrative and can order labwork at a very reasonable cost. Our insurance even covers the labwork ordered through her.

 

Good luck with everything and I know your ds will get back on track! Hope you keep us posted on how it's all going.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I definitely feel dismissive of all this online diagnosis and ridiculous homeschool woo for a kid who needs critical intervention and should have had it eons ago. Im pretty disgusted by the "medical care" the OP has been subjected to as well.

 

I am only surprised no one has suggested going gluten free or trying the GAPS diet. Or maybe they did and I missed it. But thankfully I see we have hit the critical points, from vitamin D to gifted and bored!

 

 

What in the world is homeschool woo?

[Guest inoubliable]

Have you thought of working with a ND or integrative doctor instead of a pediatrician? Our ND is integrative and can order labwork at a very reasonable cost. Our insurance even covers the labwork ordered through her.

 

 

 

Um. What's an ND? :blushing: I swear that I Googled but came up with North Dakota.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

What in the world is homeschool woo?

 

 

I kinda want to know that too...

[Orthodox6]

 

Um. What's an ND? :blushing: I swear that I Googled but came up with North Dakota.

 

 

Naturopathic Doctor. One might be helpful after the more important issues are addressed.