Moxie Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I'm cranky today so if you are easily offended you might want to stop reading. This is a total vent and I know some will disagree with me. I'm wearing my big girl panties so I'm okay with that. I honestly think that DH and I might be the only married couple on our street. I don't get it. Most of these people aren't even engaged, just boyfriend/girlfriend couples. They don't have some philosophical opposition to marriage. They own a house and have kids together so it isn't like anyone can easily walk away. I was talking to a young neighbor today (she has a child, he has a child, they live together and are..dating, I guess, not engaged) and she happily announced that she is pregnant. I really am not a prude but it took me a second to respond. I'm not that old and I remember when you didn't announce that you were pregnant until after the wedding. Things have changed A LOT in the last ten years. And, while I'm venting I'm throwing this out there--the next person that asks me, IN FRONT OF MY KIDS, if they all have the same Dad, just might get a punch in the throat :glare:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Yep, I agree, things have changed a lot. I am not sure what the consequences for the kids will be. But since I'm a single adoptive mom, I don't mind it so much if society doesn't automatically expect all kids to live in traditional families. We can only talk to our own kids and wish for the best. ETA: I can't believe people ask that kind of question in front of children. People are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 It's not your relationship so you don't really need to get it. Am I missing something? What difference does it make to you if they are married or not? It seems like you are finding the decisions other people offensive pretty easily. Although I do agree that asking if your kids have the same dad is pretty rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 So what exactly bothers you about them not being married? If the live in a committed relationship, why is it important to you that they acquire a piece of paper? We have many friends who are not married; their long term relationships have been lasting longer than than many of the marriages we see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I could care less about people and their relationship status. But I would really scratch my head if someone asked me that about my kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Not necessarily disagreeing with you. I'm a little old-fashioned about marriage first, then kids, too. It seems to be a trend in several Western cultures, though, not unique to N. America. But, I don't really get worked up about it, just because I really don't care if other consenting adults are married, or how they're married or how they choose to be a family. It's not at all my business, and it has no affect or bearing whatsoever on my own marriage and family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Well, I have an odd point of view that my parents think is just WRONG for a conservative Christian to have ha ha. I personally believe that if in your religion, you believe marriage is a sacred covenant, important, etc. then by all means you should follow your religious convictions. I have done this and am married and firmly stand on my beliefs. However, I also believe that if you aren't religious or you don't have a religious conviction for marriage; why get married?! Just because it is popular just doesn't seem like a good enough reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 It bothers me because I don't think these people are thinking about their kids (I'm not saying all non-married couples don't put their kids first). I think they are doing what feels okay TODAY and not giving much, if any, thought to the future. I am bothered by the casual attitude toward a very serious issue. Creating a family is grown-up business and I don't get the impression that these people are taking that seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 It bothers me because I don't think these people are thinking about their kids (I'm not saying all non-married couples don't put their kids first). I think they are doing what feels okay TODAY and not giving much, if any, thought to the future. I am bothered by the casual attitude toward a very serious issue. Creating a family is grown-up business and I don't get the impression that these people are taking that seriously. Playing devil's advocate here, how does not being married truly affect the children? Love and obligation and parenting doesn't need a piece of paper, surely there are enough stories of married people being horrible, horrific parents. You can be committed to someone without piece of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoLuRu Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Well, I have an odd point of view that my parents think is just WRONG for a conservative Christian to have ha ha. I personally believe that if in your religion, you believe marriage is a sacred covenant, important, etc. then by all means you should follow your religious convictions. I have done this and am married and firmly stand on my beliefs. However, I also believe that if you aren't religious or you don't have a religious conviction for marriage; why get married?! Just because it is popular just doesn't seem like a good enough reason. I'm not at all religious but marriage was important to me for its legal protections and insurance in addition to showing our commitment and familial status in a way that is easily understood in our community. My marriage is altogether secular and not part of a sacred covenant, but it is an important part of my family. We lived together for four years before getting married but waited to get married before having kids for all those legal and insurance reasons - our society is just set up in a way that makes marriage an easier place to have kids, which is a good thing for most kids IMO. I can't believe someone would question your kids' dad! How RUDE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawna in North CA Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 My view of marriage is completely born out of my worldview...which is Biblical and Christian. Not everyone shares my worldview, obviously. And I think it shouldn't be surprising that many people have not only shed a traditional view of marriage, but also rejected the need for it at all. Many people believe marriage is a human construct....created by people for our own benefit, or for the benefit of society. And now, that benefit is questionable. With the divorce rate what it is, I might tend to agree with them. I believe marriage is God-made, God-ordained, and therefore important, sacred, and moral. That's MY view, informed by my faith. I'm not saying that people who do not share my faith do not also value marriage. MANY do. But I think as "The-Bible-Says-It-And-I-Believe-It" view of the world declines in our society, we will also see less of a need for marriage. As a Christian, I don't judge those who don't claim the Christian faith for their family choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Playing devil's advocate here, how does not being married truly affect the children? Love and obligation and parenting doesn't need a piece of paper, surely there are enough stories of married people being horrible, horrific parents. You can be committed to someone without piece of paper. JoLuRu stated it better than I can. Marriage offers some legal protection that dating doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 And, while I'm venting I'm throwing this out there--the next person that asks me, IN FRONT OF MY KIDS, if they all have the same Dad, just might get a punch in the throat :glare:. :eek: :eek: :eek: Yikes! What a rotten thing to ask -- and what's even worse is that they're probably too clueless to even realize that they're being so rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahm99 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Creating a family is grown-up business and I don't get the impression that these people are taking that seriously. I believe establishing a relationship between the legal status of a couple and their seriousness (or lack therof) is a bit far-fetched...:001_huh: If marriage was a guarantee for successful (and "serious"...whatever it means) parenthood...well, wouldn't that be great...:tongue_smilie: Until then, to each his/her own, I guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 What I don't get is people who put off getting married because they can't afford a big wedding. Hello, get yourself a couple of cheapie rings at Walmart and go down to City Hall. You can always have a big reception later with a renewal of vows. That's what DH and I did when we moved up our wedding by 18 months (though our cheapie rings came from Service Merchandise :lol:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I don't get that either. Or the people who call their live in boyfriend their husband just to not admit they aren't married. What I don't get is people who put off getting married because they can't afford a big wedding. Hello, get yourself a couple of cheapie rings at Walmart and go down to City Hall. You can always have a big reception later with a renewal of vows. That's what DH and I did when we moved up our wedding by 18 months (though our cheapie rings came from Service Merchandise :lol:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahm99 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Marriage offers some legal protection that dating doesn't. I wholeheartedly agree! ...but maybe other people find their ways for the protection/security of their family...:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamom Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Questioning the kids about parents -- Wrong I just discovered that my new neighbors are not married. They have 6 kids (all theirs) which have all graduated high school and in some are in college. The only reason they told us is that they are planning a big bash next year the day they plan on getting married and said either come on over or make other plans that day :). At least they are giving us warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girls' Mom Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 My view of marriage is completely born out of my worldview...which is Biblical and Christian. Not everyone shares my worldview, obviously. And I think it shouldn't be surprising that many people have not only shed a traditional view of marriage, but also rejected the need for it at all. Many people believe marriage is a human construct....created by people for our own benefit, or for the benefit of society. And now, that benefit is questionable. With the divorce rate what it is, I might tend to agree with them. I believe marriage is God-made, God-ordained, and therefore important, sacred, and moral. That's MY view, informed by my faith. I'm not saying that people who do not share my faith do not also value marriage. MANY do. But I think as "The-Bible-Says-It-And-I-Believe-It" view of the world declines in our society, we will also see less of a need for marriage. As a Christian, I don't judge those who don't claim the Christian faith for their family choices. :iagree: Especially with the bolded part. If you are a professing Christian, then yes, you should absolutely be married BEFORE kids. It is what God desires for His people. I do not, however, expect people who do not share my belief in God to share my belief in marriage as a holy thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 What I don't get is people who put off getting married because they can't afford a big wedding. Hello, get yourself a couple of cheapie rings at Walmart and go down to City Hall. You can always have a big reception later with a renewal of vows. That's what DH and I did when we moved up our wedding by 18 months (though our cheapie rings came from Service Merchandise :lol:). Now you're just showing off. :D BTW, I agree completely about the idea of not getting married until you can have a big wedding. Of course, I'm a big believer in spending all those tens of thousands of dollars on something that lasts longer than a lovely afternoon... like a downpayment on a house or a new car. If you already have the house and aren't in debt, knock yourself out with the big wedding, but if you don't have the money, it seems foolish to me. But I know my opinion is probably in the minority -- everyone says I'm a scrooge about that stuff. :tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Or the people who call their live in boyfriend their husband just to not admit they aren't married. Probably because they have dealt with people judging them for their nontraditional life choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 I don't get that either. Or the people who call their live in boyfriend their husband just to not admit they aren't married. That's funny because after my talk with the neighbor, I told DH how odd it was to me that she said, "My boyfriend and I are having a baby." I told DH that I would have at least called him my fiance but I probably would just lie and call him my husband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I'm not at all religious but marriage was important to me for its legal protections and insurance in addition to showing our commitment and familial status in a way that is easily understood in our community. My marriage is altogether secular and not part of a sacred covenant, but it is an important part of my family. We lived together for four years before getting married but waited to get married before having kids for all those legal and insurance reasons - our society is just set up in a way that makes marriage an easier place to have kids, which is a good thing for most kids IMO. I can't believe someone would question your kids' dad! How RUDE! JoLuRu stated it better than I can. Marriage offers some legal protection that dating doesn't. I agree about the legal protection, but that doesn't make them a better parent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 And I thought the infamous, "Are they all yours?" was bad enough. "Same Daddy?" So rude! Sidetracking a bit, I am curious now about the origin of official marriage ceremonies. At what point did mankind make the leap from bonding with a commitment sans officiate to requiring a pastor/rabbi/justice of some sort to declare them married? When did marriage certificates become required? I know in ancient cultures, daughters were given in marriage with contracts, peace treaties, etc, but I do wonder, when did that all start? Even today, are there cultures that require little more than a simple decision to be together for the rest of life? Are there studies that reflect marriage longevity according to various customs (ie, marriage by ceremony vs marriage by acclamation)? Just something to think about on a Sunday afternoon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Playing devil's advocate here, how does not being married truly affect the children? Love and obligation and parenting doesn't need a piece of paper, surely there are enough stories of married people being horrible, horrific parents. You can be committed to someone without piece of paper. :iagree: You can't judge someone's commitment to each other and their children by their legal status. Especially given how many loving couples legally can't get married in our society. Also, OP, how do you know they aren't married? Did you ask each and every one of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoLuRu Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 :iagree: You can't judge someone's commitment to each other and their children by their legal status. Especially given how many loving couples legally can't get married in our society. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Do you mean specifically getting married in a church or do you mean the government certificate deal? Is there a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I think, maybe, you should look into moving elsewhere. I have never lived anywhere like that before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 You can't judge someone's commitment to each other and their children by their legal status. :iagree: And given how many married parents divorce and how many kids grow up with mediocre, married parents, I just don't see how being married and being committed/good parents go hand in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoLuRu Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Do you mean specifically getting married in a church or do you mean the government certificate deal? Is there a difference? I don't know that anyone can tell if your marriage is in a church or gov't certificate? My marriage is a government deal, no church involved, but I'm no more or less married than neighbors who were married by a pastor/reverend/rabbi/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I think, maybe, you should look into moving elsewhere. I have never lived anywhere like that before! Wait, why? What is the risk in living in this neighborhood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I am socially conservative, fiscally liberal, and used to marching to a different beat. Unmarried couples living together don't make me angry, I just consider it another sad reflection of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I don't know that anyone can tell if your marriage is in a church or gov't certificate? My marriage is a government deal, no church involved, but I'm no more or less married than neighbors who were married by a pastor/reverend/rabbi/etc. My point is that even people who are married in the church still get the gov't certificate. Which is to say, unless I get a governmental decree, I'm not truly married. Somewhat interesting isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I do have a stepniece who has this arrangement so she can keep getting welfare. But then, only one of the 4 kids is his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 In some cultures a marriage began with them moving into the same dwelling. No paperwork, no ceremony. I figure to each culture and faith their own. I've known more than a few that are not "legally" married, but intro one another as husband and wife and view each other in that manner. It has nothing to do with me and if they walk like a duck and talk like a duck, I'll treat them like ducks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Another person who just wouldn't care. I believe in marriage, but if someone else doesn't, I don't assume that means they aren't being responsible in their relationships and parenting. What I don't get is people who put off getting married because they can't afford a big wedding. Hello, get yourself a couple of cheapie rings at Walmart and go down to City Hall. You can always have a big reception later with a renewal of vows. That's what DH and I did when we moved up our wedding by 18 months (though our cheapie rings came from Service Merchandise :lol:). :iagree:But, yeah, that I totally agree with. Beyond just going to City Hall, you could put together a sweet, small backyard style wedding for a few hundred dollars. Why do people use this excuse? Just own your choice to marry or not, ya know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 My point is that even people who are married in the church still get the gov't certificate. Which is to say, unless I get a governmental decree, I'm not truly married. Somewhat interesting isn't it? Not all do. There are actually those that disapprove of it (the gov't certificate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRG Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Neither agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I think a lot of people do not get married and have children out of wedlock because there is no 'shame' like there was in past generations. It's a more of a live and let live society today. As far as the 'do they have the same dad' question--I get that one a lot, too. My boys are 13 years apart and people just assume that it is from 2 different dads. I have been married for over 21 years and they very much have the same dad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Not all do. There are actually those that disapprove of it (the gov't certificate). Well, that I didn't know. Thanks for pointing that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Maybe the people in the OP's neighborhood had a biblical marriage without gov't certificate? Or have the neighbors specifically stated that they're not married? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Wait, why? What is the risk in living in this neighborhood? Not the OP, but for me, the risk is that living in sin is seen as "normal" rather than something problematic. I don't care whether a married couple got hitched civilly or spiritually or both, but I do think cohabitation without some sort of formal marriage is sinful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 What I don't get is people who put off getting married because they can't afford a big wedding. Hello, get yourself a couple of cheapie rings at Walmart and go down to City Hall. I don't understand this either, but I think a wedding has become the important thing, not the marriage. (Hello, Kim Kardashian!) I had a cheap wedding. Oh well. My neighbor "confessed" to my husband that they're not married and she wants more kids. I have no idea why she wanted to get into this with him (he didn't ask, and, while our kids are playmates, we are not even remotely close to the parents) or why she doesn't just go get married if she wants to. I think for some people, it's embarassment. But then, just go get married without a big show. I knew a minister who used to perform basically secret marriages for such people who'd been together and who were assumed to be married. I don't know if people do that so much anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Not necessarily disagreeing with you. I'm a little old-fashioned about marriage first, then kids, too. It seems to be a trend in several Western cultures, though, not unique to N. America. But, I don't really get worked up about it, just because I really don't care if other consenting adults are married, or how they're married or how they choose to be a family. It's not at all my business, and it has no affect or bearing whatsoever on my own marriage and family. :iagree: It's just not on my radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Not the OP, but for me, the risk is that living in sin is seen as "normal" rather than something problematic. I don't care whether a married couple got hitched civilly or spiritually or both, but I do think cohabitation without some sort of formal marriage is sinful. That's interesting. I've just never worried about other people's actions affecting my own morality and ethics when it's their own lives and don't apply to me, KWIM? Sort of difficult for me to wrap my head around being concerned over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Do you mean specifically getting married in a church or do you mean the government certificate deal? Is there a difference? Truly, I don't care. Stand in a field and tell the moon you'll be together forever. Just don't do something that is supposed to be permanent (building a family) while still using the language of a casual relationship. "Boyfriend" refers to someone you are with FOR NOW. "Husband" is the person you plan to be with forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrumm4448 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I do have a stepniece who has this arrangement so she can keep getting welfare. But then, only one of the 4 kids is his. Sadly, I think this is a big reason people aren't getting married. Someone at a party last year actually said that to me, that she and her live-in boyfriend weren't going to get married because otherwise they would lose their benefits. She obviously didn't know me because we had just met, but I'm really not the person to say that to. If you're paying for your own family, married or not, good for you. But if you don't get married so you can collect more from the system, I'm not down with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Wait, why? What is the risk in living in this neighborhood? :iagree: It's not like unmarried couples are also zombies or axe murderers. Certainly not anymore so than married couples- how many times is a serial killer found to have a wife who "knows nothing" about the bodies under the garden? FWIW, I have been married for 10+ years so it's not like I have anything against marriage. I just don't judge people who choose for whatever reason not to get married. There are a lot of reasons I have seen couples avoid marriage. While I may not agree, they are all reasons never the less: -one person has extensive debt the other one does not want to be tied to. - financially it makes more sense to be unmarried (perhaps marriage will cost a widow her pension.) - one or both partners had parents who were in a crappy marriage and they are not fond of it because of that. - one or both partners have previously been through hell in a marriage and said "never again." I have a friend who left a severely abusive relationship. She will not marry again, it's just out of her comfort zone. - It's not a part of their culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I don't see a problem with not being married. I prefer marriage - for ME - but it's none of my business what other couples do. It bothers me because I don't think these people are thinking about their kids (I'm not saying all non-married couples don't put their kids first). I think they are doing what feels okay TODAY and not giving much, if any, thought to the future. I am bothered by the casual attitude toward a very serious issue. Creating a family is grown-up business and I don't get the impression that these people are taking that seriously. :confused: I don't understand how it hurts the kids if there is a committed relationship and a loving family. BTW, Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell have been "not married" for over 30 years. They can't be the only non-married couple with such a relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 :iagree: It's not like unmarried couples are also zombies or axe murderers. Certainly not anymore so than married couples- how many times is a serial killer found to have a wife who "knows nothing" about the bodies under the garden? FWIW, I have been married for 10+ years so it's not like I have anything against marriage. I just don't judge people who choose for whatever reason not to get married. There are a lot of reasons I have seen couples avoid marriage. While I may not agree, they are all reasons never the less: -one person has extensive debt the other one does not want to be tied to. - financially it makes more sense to be unmarried (perhaps marriage will cost a widow her pension.) - one or both partners had parents who were in a crappy marriage and they are not fond of it because of that. - one or both partners have previously been through hell in a marriage and said "never again." I have a friend who left a severely abusive relationship. She will not marry again, it's just out of her comfort zone. - It's not a part of their culture. Now I'm curious. What culture doesn't include marriage?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I don't know people who are doing this. But as I read in Coming Apart by Charles Murray, I now know why. And yes, I think it is a bad thing, and not just for Christians. After all, Jewish, Muslim, HIndus, Buddhists, etc, all have marriages too. Marriage helps protect women and children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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