A rant: victim blaming/criticizing -- CO shootings

[catz]

I seriously don't see the big deal with doing something like this once in awhile. And not everyone lives on the same schedule. Why is your schedule more proper than other people's schedule? It's not an indication that the kid isn't going to get enough sleep.

 

:iagree: I know a family and the father is a movie director. These types of outings are what constitute a very special family occasion for them. Every family is different. I know a homeschooling family with young elementary kids where one of the parents works 3 am to noon. Those kids hold to a late bedtime. Just because it's different than what you do, doesn't mean it wrong for another family. I would take my kids to a midnight showing of a movie in some circumstances. My DS and I pondered doing it for the hunger games, but we had to be up the following morning for something. We went the next evening. I am not much of a night person!

 

:grouphug: to all the victims of this horrible tragedy.

[NotSoObvious]

:iagree: And I don't think that those people should be judged. Saying "I'm surprised to hear that there were such young children there." is a world away from "those idiots, what were they thinking, it's their own fault...."

 

And I CERTAINLY haven't heard anybody here saying that. I have heard nothing but sympathy, horror, and shock. And, yes, surprise at the young age of some of the victims. I think it's understandable to assume that a PG-13 movie at midnight would have meant children were unlikely to be in the audience, and to be shocked and saddened to hear that very small children were there and injured. I don't agree that equates with blaming or judging the parents.

 

Exactly. Thank you.

 

I'm loving this thread on judging. Irony at its finest.

[justamouse]

The mom and a 19 year old kid, a *stranger* were shot trying to get those kids out.

 

What a coward that father was.

[DianeW88]

Nobody should be blaming the parents for merely attending a movie with their child. That is beyond pathetic!

 

There is NOTHING you can do to keep your child out of harm's way 24/7. Nothing. I can't tell you how many kids I saw when I worked trauma at that very Children's Hospital in Denver near the movie theatre where the shooting occurred. They were all just freak accidents and nothing more.

 

I remember an incident where a four year old child tripped while standing at the sink brushing his teeth, and the toothbrush lodged into the child's soft palate. He almost bled to death. Is it the mother's fault because she let her child brush his teeth? We've had choking victims, where the child was eating food they should not have choked on. Is it the mother's fault for giving her child mac and cheese for lunch? I could give you dozens more examples. Here in Utah a 100 year old tombstone fell over in a cemetery and crushed a 4 year old to death a few weeks ago. With his parents less than 3 feet away. It was nothing more than a horrible accident with an old piece of stone collapsing. Nobody even touched the darn thing. Your child is at risk every day....no matter what you do.

 

It's awful, horrible and tragic, but awful, horrible and tragic things happen every. single. day. Children die every. single. day. And in almost every instance there was nothing the parents could have done to prevent it.

 

There is nothing wrong with taking your child to the movies. What if this had happened at a Saturday matinee showing? It just as easily could have. What if it had happened in a public library during story hour? In Target or Walmart where you're shopping with your kids? Is the parent's fault then?

 

It's nobody's fault but the idiot who pulled the trigger.

[gardenmom5]

uh-The internet cafe thing was an armed robbery. The robbers weren't shooting people. They wanted money. They were not out to kill people. This was a spree shooting where the guy just wanted to kill people. Very different incidents.

 

yeah this guy just wanted to shoot people. MANY armed robberies end up with people getting shot.

[Caroline]

yeah this guy just wanted to shoot people. MANY armed robberies end up with people getting shot.

 

So you are saying the two incidents are comparable?

[La Texican]

Don't even blame that father for leaving his baby. You hear about heroic stories but not every one's a hero. Under pressure in chaos many people fail to function. Blame him if he doesn't come home from work every night and support his wife and kids. Everybody in the story now has PTsd. Poor babies. As for a schedule, well, there's worse things than being out late at night at the Movie Theater with your parents.

 

Eta: yes I said wife, fiancé, whatever. My point was not everybody thinks straight in chaos.

[Jennifer3141]

Don't even blame that father for leaving his baby. You hear about heroic stories but not every one's a hero. Under pressure in chaos many people fail to function. Blame him if he doesn't come home from work every night and support his wife and kids. Everybody in the story now has PTsd. Poor babies. As for a schedule, well, there's worse things than being out late at night at the Movie Theater with your parents.

 

Eta: yes I said wife, fiancé, whatever. My point was not everybody thinks straight in chaos.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I've never been in a situation like this. I cannot even imagine it but I would guess that primal parts of your brain just kick in. For some people, that primal instinct might be to shove your children to the floor and take a bullet. For others, it may be to run. I hope I NEVER figure out which way my instincts would go. I'd like to think I'd save my children but honestly, the idea of being someplace where bullets are just flying and there's blood and gore and people screaming and crying and running and panicking... I just cannot even imagine it and I doubt most movies do the "real life" version well.

 

There are heroes in the world. There are also cowards. I guess you just hope you never have to live a life in which you find out in a split second which one you are?

[Jennifer3141]

uh - I guess you didn't see the video from earlier this week taken from three angles by the security cams at an internet cafe. the two *armed* thugs (they were waving their guns around scaring people) could NOT get out fast enough (and tripped over each other attempting to) when a 71 yo cc started shooting at them.

 

they were arrested when they showed up at the ER claiming to have been shot while out in some field. except there wasn't any brass in the field indicating a firefight.

 

 

As another poster pointed out, that was a BURGLARY. A spree killing is a whole other ball of wax. We train our MILITARY and our POLICE to handle situations like this and it takes years to become good. The stupidest thing in the world would be to have some "good ole boy" with a handgun and a 2 hour gun class under his belt, firing back. In the dark. In total chaos. No thanks!

[chepyl]

you cannot equate those comments. they are absolutely NOT the same. I would criticize parents taking young children to a midnight almost anything even if it hadn't ended in tragedy. little children should be IN BED at midnight. they really do need more sleep and more consistency than an adult, and sadly, too many young parents don't know enough to treat their young children as children and be an adult. (and as to the: they couldn't get a babysitter - then be an adult and go another time when you can.)

 

the second is reprehensible.

 

It isn't "My schedule", it's children's schedules. children are not flexible in their sleep schedule. they don't generally stay up one night, and make up for it the next day. body clocks get in the way. to deny that is to deny basic biology and biorhythms.

 

My kids are VERY flexible in their sleep schedule. They can stay up up until 2 am for a week and then go to bed at 10 the next week. When they are up late, we let them sleep in.

 

 

When I was 16, my cousins, sister, and I took my dad's college roomate's kids with us to see Scream. I believe it was rated R. 6 of us ranging from 12-18 went alone to the dollar theatre showing at midnight. As the movie ended and we left the theatre, 3-4 girls came running down the hall yelling they have guns. We did not believe them at first. We ran back to the theatre and hid in the chairs at the front. Within a few minutes a police officer came back to the theatre and escorted us to the exit and our cars. We walked into the middle of a gang fight. We were all okay, but not everyone had the warning we did. It was scary, I am sure our parents would not have appreciated people questioning why they let 6 teens go to "that" theatre alone at midnight. We had no idea that was going to happen!

.

[Carrie75]

I think most people are sympathetic honestly.

 

That said, I really don't think the majority of comments about the children in the theater were meant to convey that the parents were bad parents, irresponsible, or deserved what happened. I still think there's a lot of people who were caught by surprise to see that there was a child taken to this movie at this time.

 

I agree. It is such a violent movie. It's hard to imagine taking a young child to see it. Even though I feel that it is a bad idea to take your child to see Batman, midnight or not, does not mean I don't have sympathy for the victims or I am blaming the victims. It honestly surprised me to hear there were kids there at all.

[Impish]

*haven't read replies*

 

The *only* person that has ANY responsibility in this is the ack who decided to murder other ppl.

[Veritaserum]

I don't believe in blaming the victim either. BUT have you read the story of the parents that had the young child and baby with them? The dad somehow put the baby on the floor by the stairs and ran out of the theater, leaving his fiancée, daughter and baby son to fend for themselves. He actually drove away according to his story.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=16821447

 

:svengo: It's the driving away that really puts this over the top. Meanwhile, the mother, who was shot, managed to get both kids out of the theater. I could understand fleeing in panic even though I'd still be hurt and furious at being abandoned, but driving away just...wow. :001_huh:

[Kathryn]

:svengo: It's the driving away that really puts this over the top. Meanwhile, the mother, who was shot, managed to get both kids out of the theater. I could understand fleeing in panic even though I'd still be hurt and furious at being abandoned, but driving away just...wow. :001_huh:

 

Not only that, a teenager--a stranger--was shot helping her get the children out.

 

I thought about not being judgmental. Can't do it. No, I don't know for sure what I'd do in that situation and hope I never find out. But, if I threw my baby to the ground because I thought his cries might draw attention to me, ran out leaving my family behind, and drove away, I wouldn't blame anyone for judging me.

[gardenmom5]

So you are saying the two incidents are comparable?

 

well - considering I was responding to someone whose contention was shooters don't care if someone shoots back . . .

 

this guy was prepared for someone to shoot back - we was wearing riot gear/ body armor *in case* someone shot back.

[Jennifer3141]

well - considering I was responding to someone whose contention was shooters don't care if someone shoots back . . .

 

this guy was prepared for someone to shoot back - we was wearing riot gear/ body armor *in case* someone shot back.

 

Yet another reason why anyone firing BACK would need to be highly trained and not just some dude with a gun. So MORE bullets flying from anyone else's gun would not have been helpful and could only have harmed more people.

[gardenmom5]

My kids are VERY flexible in their sleep schedule. They can stay up up until 2 am for a week and then go to bed at 10 the next week. When they are up late, we let them sleep in.

.

 

yes - and as the mother of a six year old, and a three year old, you have lots of experience in that dept.

[gardenmom5]

Yet another reason why anyone firing BACK would need to be highly trained and not just some dude with a gun. So MORE bullets flying from anyone else's gun would not have been helpful and could only have harmed more people.

not in this case, but this was hardly typical.

[Jennifer3141]

not in this case, but this was hardly typical.

 

Actually, most spree killers are highly prepared with multiple weapons, body armor, assistants, etc. The average gun owner is not going to be able to mount a defense against a guy like this because the average gun owner is there relaxing with his family against a maniac who has been planning this for days, weeks, or months. And who came twenty times more prepared. :(

[BakersDozen]

thought about not being judgmental. Can't do it. No, I don't know for sure what I'd do in that situation and hope I never find out. But, if I threw my baby to the ground because I thought his cries might draw attention to me, ran out leaving my family behind, and drove away, I wouldn't blame anyone for judging me.

OK, I'm judgmental...very judgmental. The guy LEFT??

Don't even blame that father for leaving his baby.

Sorry...I blame him. I cannot wrap my brain around this at all. If that was my dh/fiance or whatever...I can't even post my thoughts on this one as it would get me banned (which I've never been...maybe it's time).

[Scuff]

Actually, most spree killers are highly prepared with multiple weapons, body armor, assistants, etc. The average gun owner is not going to be able to mount a defense against a guy like this because the average gun owner is there relaxing with his family against a maniac who has been planning this for days, weeks, or months. And who came twenty times more prepared. :(

 

The concealed carriers I know take it very seriously and are never fully relaxed when carrying. They always sit so they can see the room and are very aware of their surroundings.

[chepyl]

yes - and as the mother of a six year old, and a three year old, you have lots of experience in that dept.

 

Actually, they are nearly 7 and 4.5, but that is beside the point. Your comment is extremely rude. I also know how my 18 nieces and nephews and my close cousin's kids have responded to schedule changes. I also babysat/nannied for 7 years for many families.

 

We have a crazy schedule and my kids adjust fine. I would not judge or criticize a family who chose to take their child to a midnight event. Especially, when something so tragic happened to them. Not every family or child operates on the same schedule or under the same rules. It does not make one right or wrong, just different.

[Jennifer3141]

The concealed carriers I know take it very seriously and are never fully relaxed when carrying. They always sit so they can see the room and are very aware of their surroundings.

 

And exactly how are you, "very aware of your surroundings" when a smoke bomb goes off??? In the DARK.

[PeacefulChaos]

Actually, they are nearly 7 and 4.5, but that is beside the point. Your comment is extremely rude. I also know how my 18 nieces and nephews and my close cousin's kids have responded to schedule changes. I also babysat/nannied for 7 years for many families.

 

We have a crazy schedule and my kids adjust fine. I would not judge or criticize a family who chose to take their child to a midnight event. Especially, when something so tragic happened to them. Not every family or child operates on the same schedule or under the same rules. It does not make one right or wrong, just different.

 

:iagree:

For real. That comment was just rude. :glare:

[Mergath]

And exactly how are you, "very aware of your surroundings" when a smoke bomb goes off??? In the DARK.

 

:iagree: And I think the death toll would have been higher had someone else pulled out a gun and started firing away in that situation. No responsible gun owner would open fire in a dark, smoky theater surrounded by mass chaos.

 

The fact that some people think this would have been a great course of action is chilling.

[msjones]

OP here.

 

My main point, which I may not have made clearly during my initial ranting post, is that the timing and location of such remarks is key.

 

They should be saved for a later time. To be "tsk, tsk-ing" the victims on major public news sites less than 6 hours after the violence is just heartless.

 

I don't think I could be convinced otherwise.

[deltahotelfoxtrot]

Ms Jones hit the nail on the head, it’s too early to be criticizing anyone for their decisions. Hindsight is 20/20. Also it’s not fair to blame the victims for any actions taken or not taken. Until you have actually been shot at you don’t know how you are going to react, (I say this from lots of experience). The other little debate that has arose from this thread is all hypothetical opinions about the average armed citizen returning fire. I am a huge proponent of the 2nd amendment, but some valid points were brought up. No sane gun owner would open fire unless they had clear shot, and unless they knew what was behind their target. The average firearm owner shoots a couple times a year, at static, well lit targets. Whether it’s a mass shooting, convenience store robbery, or some idiot shooting up an IHOP, the reality is very different, targets are moving, they will have depth, and you will be under stress. If you aren’t prepared for this, you should either reconsider carrying a gun, or reconsider how you train to use it.

Bottom-line this was a senseless act of violence, and my prayers go out to the people of CO. It’s a shame that the .001% of crazy people out there ruin things for the overwhelming majority of law abiding citizens.

[Renee in NC]

yes - and as the mother of a six year old, and a three year old, you have lots of experience in that dept.

 

And, as a mother of 7, ages 3-19, I agree with her. Staying up later at times (or even for a week!) does not ruin a child forever. Yes, kids need sleep. YEs, they generally should have a predictable routine. Not everyone chooses early bedtimes. I have a friend whose husband rotates nights and days for work. When he works nights, she keeps them up VERY late so they will sleep longer in the morning. Does that maker her a young, irresponsible mother?

[PeacefulChaos]

OP here.

 

My main point, which I may not have made clearly during my initial ranting post, is that the timing and location of such remarks is key.

 

They should be saved for a later time. To be "tsk, tsk-ing" the victims on major public news sites less than 6 hours after the violence is just heartless.

 

I don't think I could be convinced otherwise.

 

:iagree:

[Mrs Mungo]

My kids are 16, 13 and 11. We actually stick to a fairly strict schedule, but staying up late now and then doesn't hurt them, IMO.

 

I have to agree with those who said firing back at a gunman in that situation would be nuts, unless you had NVGs or something.

 

Personally, I am in favor of some gun control. There is no reason that your average person needs an assault rifle or tear gas.

 

Not only that, a teenager--a stranger--was shot helping her get the children out.

 

I thought about not being judgmental. Can't do it. No, I don't know for sure what I'd do in that situation and hope I never find out. But, if I threw my baby to the ground because I thought his cries might draw attention to me, ran out leaving my family behind, and drove away, I wouldn't blame anyone for judging me.

 

That story was crazy. I know not everyone reacts well in a crisis, but I would never marry someone who put my baby in the floor, escaped and *drove away*, leaving me and the kids behind.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[Parrothead]

Ms Jones hit the nail on the head, it’s too early to be criticizing anyone for their decisions. Hindsight is 20/20. Also it’s not fair to blame the victims for any actions taken or not taken. Until you have actually been shot at you don’t know how you are going to react, (I say this from lots of experience). The other little debate that has arose from this thread is all hypothetical opinions about the average armed citizen returning fire. I am a huge proponent of the 2nd amendment, but some valid points were brought up. No sane gun owner would open fire unless they had clear shot, and unless they knew what was behind their target. The average firearm owner shoots a couple times a year, at static, well lit targets. Whether it’s a mass shooting, convenience store robbery, or some idiot shooting up an IHOP, the reality is very different, targets are moving, they will have depth, and you will be under stress. If you aren’t prepared for this, you should either reconsider carrying a gun, or reconsider how you train to use it.

 

Bottom-line this was a senseless act of violence, and my prayers go out to the people of CO. It’s a shame that the .001% of crazy people out there ruin things for the overwhelming majority of law abiding citizens.

:iagree: Well said.

My kids are 16, 13 and 11. We actually stick to a fairly strict schedule, but staying up late now and then doesn't hurt them, IMO.

 

I have to agree with those who said firing back at a gunman in that situation would be nuts, unless you had NVGs or something.

 

Personally, I am in favor of some gun control. There is no reason that your average person needs an assault rifle or tear gas.

 

 

 

That story was crazy. I know not everyone reacts well in a crisis, but I would never marry someone who put my baby in the floor, escaped and *drove away*, leaving me and the kids behind.

:iagree:with this also.

 

Having a dh myself that is in LE and works shift work I personally believe it as long as one (child or adult) gets adequate sleep it does matter at all when one decides to schedule said sleep.

[Murphy101]

OK, I'm judgmental...very judgmental. The guy LEFT?? Sorry...I blame him. I cannot wrap my brain around this at all. If that was my dh/fiance or whatever...I can't even post my thoughts on this one as it would get me banned (which I've never been...maybe it's time).

 

That guy found the one girl in the world who could love him after that. That's probably the best example of their being someone for everyone if I've ever heard one. He ditched her, then put the baby down and ditched baby too, left the building, drove away and didn't come back until his girlfriend called him from the parking lot. I would have never called him again. Ever.

 

yes - and as the mother of a six year old, and a three year old, you have lots of experience in that dept.

 

Wowza. Well I have a 1, 3, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14, 16, and 17.

 

Some kids are very happy with their wacky lack of schedules. Some kids stick to their schedules rigidly.

 

Either one might do just fine at a midnight movie.

 

At least 2 of my schedule kids would have been fine bc it didn't matter what was going in or where they were - they slept at midnight. One of them is a teen who still does. Can't even wake him with a fire alarm or tornado siren.

 

Others would have just slept in the next day or had an extra long nap or whatever. It's not like they have a CEO board meeting or school the next day.

 

Most of my kids would never get to see it bc I don't personally permit that type of movie unless dh or I have watched it first to check whether we feel it would be okay for a younger child. My 8 year old is desperate to see it. He is a huge batman fan. But I will still wait until its on DVD to prescreen it.

 

But that is why I am my kids mother. I make the calls here and other moms make the calls in their homes.:)

[Terabith]

The concealed carriers I know take it very seriously and are never fully relaxed when carrying. They always sit so they can see the room and are very aware of their surroundings.

 

Do you really think that things would have gone better if frightened theater-goers in a dark room crowded with panicked people choking on blinding tear gas had engaged in a running gunfight with a man in body-armor... A group of civilians with little or no training, in full panic mode in a situation like that are likely to wreak havoc and start shooting at each other, I would think. What could possibly go wrong with that scenario?

[AngelBee]

I am so angered reading ill-timed comments like, "who would let their child attend a midnight showing?" Or, "what kind of mother would bring a baby to a movie at midnight?"

 

A woman was raped in her apartment near here last week. She was studying in her own home with her window open on a stuffy summer night. I was sickened by the number of critical comments in our papers: "doesn't she know she shouldn't keep her window open at night?" or "why didn't she own a gun if she wants to live alone?"

 

These are people who have been terrorized and traumatized by violent criminals. Save the cold criticism for a later time, please.

 

:iagree:

[Jenny in Florida]

(could we use a little real Batman right now? Justice?...)

 

See, this is one of those times when I realize how weird I am.

 

No, I absolutely could not use Batman right now. I had no interest in this film prior to this tragedy, largely because I'm appalled by the amount of violence that passes for entertainment in our world. And, while I agree with you that the only person to "blame" in this case is the man who did the shooting, I do think there is something wrong with a society that thinks it's fun to watch people be shot and mangled.

 

So, I can't say I have less interest in this film than I did before. But, if such a thing were possible, it would be true.

 

As for the terribly significant debate about taking kids out past their bedtimes, I'll say that I've taken mine to midnight showings. We started taking our daughter to midnight release parties for the HP books when she was four or five and took our then-infant son along for the ride. And I can even understand a parent taking an infant to a late-night film. The baby will likely sleep, anyway. It's not something I've done, but I get it.

 

I don't really understand taking young children to a film that is rated way over their heads/ages, particularly one so rated for "intense sequences of violence," but I will readily admit we've made choices other parents would think are odd to say the least. Regardless, what's important is that it's unfathomable to me to criticize a parent for doing something completely normal -- taking a kid to a movie -- because some disturbed person committed a completely unpredictable act of violence.

 

Honestly, the first parent who can prove he or she is perfect is welcome to have a say. Otherwise, we should all focus on feeling compassion, instead of contempt.

[lionfamily1999]

I can't believe the number of times I have read something along the lines of "Why didn't they fight back?!?" Not so much here as every stupid newslink that is popping up and rife in the comments of various articles. So, why didn't they fight back?

 

Here's why. There were no internet trools, bloggers, or reporters there. That's why. If only one hairy sweaty shut-in had attended the whole tragedy could have been averted.

 

Now, what these ohsovalient people should do is offer a class to everyone else on how to handle this situation. So, we put them all in a theator with this muderous vile man and arm him to the teeth again. Then we let them show the world how it's done.

 

:banghead:

[La Texican]

LoL @ the keyboard commandos. Still crying a little for the survivors. They all have PTSD now.

[EmeraldGirl]

Very sad indeed.

[elegantlion]

See, this is one of those times when I realize how weird I am.

 

No, I absolutely could not use Batman right now. I had no interest in this film prior to this tragedy, largely because I'm appalled by the amount of violence that passes for entertainment in our world. And, while I agree with you that the only person to "blame" in this case is the man who did the shooting, I do think there is something wrong with a society that thinks it's fun to watch people be shot and mangled.

 

So, I can't say I have less interest in this film than I did before. But, if such a thing were possible, it would be true.

 

 

 

I have a huge amount of respect for you and your perspective. Let me explain my thinking behind the statement. For me, I am a fan of the series. Why? Because Batman, to me, represents justice for the little guy, justice in a tangible sense that sometimes you only get in a movie.

 

I don't think it's fun to watch people get shot and mangled, that's not the draw for me. I'm also a huge fan of NASCAR and I don't watch that for the wrecks either. Violence and tragedy already exist. That was brought locally this week by the murder of two young-adult sisters in my area by some guy high on meth. Their bodies were located in the same county in which I live. A town where people are known not to lock their doors are now locking their doors at night, one couple for the first time in 50 years. Violence is everywhere.

 

The Batman series, Nolan's interpretation in particular, brought a humanity to Batman that was missing in the prior movies. Batman Begins was on TV last night. It's one of my favorite movies. I watched in a different light last night. I felt inspired to "be the change I want to see in the world".

 

I don't know the story behind this young man. I had initially heard (maybe here) that he had mental illness, I can't confirm that. What kind of break down in the system (the overall system of healthcare, humanity, reaching out to help people) happened that this 24 year old bright young man decided to become a mass murderer? He still made the choice on his own.

 

I don't watch movies like that for the violence, I watch movies like that to see people overcome the violence, to rise above and make a difference. I can't be Batman, we don't really need a vigilante on the loose, but I walk out of those films inspired to do something to better humanity and hopefully lessen the violence in the future.

 

That's my thinking behind the statement anyway.

[sourpatchbaby]

I don't believe in blaming the victim either. BUT have you read the story of the parents that had the young child and baby with them? The dad somehow put the baby on the floor by the stairs and ran out of the theater, leaving his fiancée, daughter and baby son to fend for themselves. He actually drove away according to his story.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=16821447

:iagree:

Not only that, a teenager--a stranger--was shot helping her get the children out.

 

I thought about not being judgmental. Can't do it. No, I don't know for sure what I'd do in that situation and hope I never find out. But, if I threw my baby to the ground because I thought his cries might draw attention to me, ran out leaving my family behind, and drove away, I wouldn't blame anyone for judging me.

:iagree::iagree: My beef is not with the fact that they took two children to a midnight showing of a movie regardless of my feelings about it (which may very well stem from the fact that my kids would freak out at such a violent movie and there is no one I could leave them with so I could go by myself). My beef is with the cowardly way the father handled the situation. Yes, I know unless presented in a fight or flight situation we would never know what we'd do but I do know I'd never leave my children behind (I was at a hotel on vacation once when the fire alarms went off in the middle of the night. I grabbed my then four and two year old sleeping children and got out. I didn't think to save myself, the only thing going through my mind was "get them out, get them out, GET THEM OUT!!" I didn't even wait to see if my husband was following me. I saw that he was awake and that was good enough for me. He is a big boy and could carry his own butt down the stairs, my babies needed me).

 

The mother took a piece of shrapnel to the leg getting her daughter out of the way, she felt a bit of comfort (IMO) at the fact that she knew her son was with his father and she assumed he was taking care of him. Meanwhile the father has a crying baby in his arms and is worried that the crying is going to draw attention to him and get him shot so he puts the infant down on the floor, jumps the balcony, gets out of the theater, into his car, and drives away (whether to a store or to his house, I don't know) and doesn't come back until after all the victims are out of the theater and the mom finds a phone to call him. At some point in between getting out of the theater and driving away he should've thought about his family and at least stayed nearby.

 

I do think the news article about them should've read "father gets castrated when mom finds out he abandoned his child to save his sorry butt." At least, that's how it would've read had it been my child on the ground.

[Murphy101]

I can't believe the number of times I have read something along the lines of "Why didn't they fight back?!?" Not so much here as every stupid newslink that is popping up and rife in the comments of various articles. So, why didn't they fight back?

 

Here's why. There were no internet trools, bloggers, or reporters there. That's why. If only one hairy sweaty shut-in had attended the whole tragedy could have been averted.

 

Now, what these ohsovalient people should do is offer a class to everyone else on how to handle this situation. So, we put them all in a theator with this muderous vile man and arm him to the teeth again. Then we let them show the world how it's done.

 

:banghead:

 

 

The average showing has an occupancy of what? 200? And there was only 12 dead and 50 something injured? Roughly 60%+ got out not only alive, but uninjured? That's a pretty spectacular outcome for a situation where he was basically shooting in a barrel of panicked, blind fish!

 

Yes it is absolutely tragic. If someone could have stopped him and didn't, that is a whole other issue. But the immediate goal in these situations is to get the hell out alive. Stopping the perpetrator is secondary to that goal to those in survival mode and usually it makes more sense to get out. Unless stopping the perpetrator is the only way out. In that situation, most victims will take advantage as best they can, IF they can, just for the sake of survival.

 

Anyone there with a gun likely wouldn't have used it unless they just happened to have a prime sniper shot open up. Unlike in the movies, that doesn't happen very often in a gun fight. More likely they would not have used their own gun for fear of hurting bystanders.

[Jenny in Florida]

I have a huge amount of respect for you and your perspective. Let me explain my thinking behind the statement.

 

I respect you very much, too.

 

This is a conversation I have frequently with my son. So, I absolutely get that people have different threshholds for violence and different perspectives.

 

I'll admit, though, that I can't help wondering (worrying) about the young kids who are seeing these increasingly violent films and growing up thinking this is normal.

 

From my point of view, one thing I can do to be the change is to refuse to participate in cultural events that glorify and comic-book-ize death and destruction. And I refuse to financially support businesses that produce them. That's my way of coping with the pain and sadness I see in the world.

 

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts.

[OnTheBrink]

I am so angered reading ill-timed comments like, "who would let their child attend a midnight showing?" Or, "what kind of mother would bring a baby to a movie at midnight?"

 

A woman was raped in her apartment near here last week. She was studying in her own home with her window open on a stuffy summer night. I was sickened by the number of critical comments in our papers: "doesn't she know she shouldn't keep her window open at night?" or "why didn't she own a gun if she wants to live alone?"

 

These are people who have been terrorized and traumatized by violent criminals. Save the cold criticism for a later time, please.

 

One of my coworkers made the same comments about the shooting victims. Why would someone take a small child to a movie late at night? Maybe because the baby would sleep through a late movie. Then she went on about how she'd NEVER take her 6 year old to Batman. Well, so what? None of that had anything to do with the shooter and his victims. That man is evil and committed evil against those people and their ages are irrelevant. The whole, "well, if they'd never been there, they wouldn't be victims" is a crock.

[Murphy101]

Also, IMO, it's easier to be a hero when you are alone. If I was there by myself, taking a bullet to protect someone might not be the big of a conflict for me. But if my son or daughter or husband is sitting next to me? My #1 goal is to get them out. It's not about being scared to take a bullet. It's about being scared of them taking a bullet. I am sure many of those people were thinking similiar one line thoughts of how to keep their loved one safe.

 

Obviously that one father wasn't one of them.:glare:

Notice he sure wasn't helping anyone else either though, much less confronting the attacker. But surprise. Not.

[happypamama]

Eh, I'm not too bothered by the idea of them taking a toddler to a late movie. If I had a toddler that slept well away from home, and I was fairly certain that toddler would sleep through the movie, it probably wouldn't bother me too much to do it once. (I'd plan to take the toddler out, even if it meant missing the show, if he/she didn't end up sleeping, though.) Sitters are expensive -- if the child sleeps, why pay for a sitter? I thought one article I read said that the toddler was asleep in her mom's lap when the shooter came in. That would not bother me. It's probably not a choice I would personally make, but I can see why it might be a reasonable choice for that family. (And blaming them right afterward is just rude.)

 

In addition, why should societal norms get to dictate when it's okay to take kids out in public? Maybe this family routinely goes to bed at 2 am and gets up at noon, because maybe one of the parents works 3 pm to 11. Part of the reason I homeschool/stay home with my children is so that I can adjust our schedules to fit *our needs,* whether that matches someone else's or not. If it works better for me to say, do my grocery shopping at 10 pm with my kids in tow, and then we sleep from midnight to 10 am, whose business is that, except for mine?

 

Otoh, when DH and I saw one of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies in the theater about five years ago, without any of our children, I was shocked at how many kids under age 8 were in the theater, at 7 pm, watching the movie, not sleeping. I thought that was a dark film (and have not let my own children see it), and I did not think kids that young should be watching it. But if someone had opened fire, I'd not have been blaming the parents. Bad stuff sometimes happens when we shouldn't expect it to.

[happypamama]

That man is evil and committed evil against those people and their ages are irrelevant. The whole, "well, if they'd never been there, they wouldn't be victims" is a crock.

 

Yes, indeed. When a shooter killed two students on my college campus several years ago, nobody was thinking, "well, it's her fault for choosing that college; if she'd gone somewhere else, she wouldn't have been shot," as if it was the victim's fault. The person at fault was the shooter (and the hero was the student who risked his own life to stop the shooter -- and *that,* despite the "Penn State is bad" threads, is why I still bleed blue and white).

[freeindeed]

I am so angered reading ill-timed comments like, "who would let their child attend a midnight showing?" Or, "what kind of mother would bring a baby to a movie at midnight?"

 

A woman was raped in her apartment near here last week. She was studying in her own home with her window open on a stuffy summer night. I was sickened by the number of critical comments in our papers: "doesn't she know she shouldn't keep her window open at night?" or "why didn't she own a gun if she wants to live alone?"

 

These are people who have been terrorized and traumatized by violent criminals. Save the cold criticism for a later time, please.

 

:iagree:

My dd11 wanted to go see it, but I haven't let her watch any of this particular Batman series yet. Yet, if there was a midnight showing of a movie I'd let her watch, then I'd take her. This kind of thing could happen in broad daylight. And, as a matter of fact, my children and I were almost carjacked at a local Wal-Mart at 9:30 in the morning a few years ago. Does that mean I shouldn't have been grocery shopping with my kids in the morning?

[Brilliant]

I am so angered reading ill-timed comments like, "who would let their child attend a midnight showing?"

 

Oh, I hope nobody tries to say that to my face. My teens both attended the midnight showing. How could we possibly plan to avoid a mass murderer? More mass murders happen in high schools, colleges, & restaurants - making the movie theater statistically safer.

[lionfamily1999]

The average showing has an occupancy of what? 200? And there was only 12 dead and 50 something injured? Roughly 60%+ got out not only alive, but uninjured? That's a pretty spectacular outcome for a situation where he was basically shooting in a barrel of panicked, blind fish!

 

Yes it is absolutely tragic. If someone could have stopped him and didn't, that is a whole other issue. But the immediate goal in these situations is to get the hell out alive.

(Snip)

Anyone there with a gun likely wouldn't have used it unless they just happened to have a prime sniper shot open up. Unlike in the movies, that doesn't happen very often in a gun fight. More likely they would not have used their own gun for fear of hurting bystanders.

:iagree: Between the smoke and mob there would not have been a shot.

 

One of my coworkers made the same comments about the shooting victims. Why would someone take a small child to a movie late at night? Maybe because the baby would sleep through a late movie. Then she went on about how she'd NEVER take her 6 year old to Batman. Well, so what? None of that had anything to do with the shooter and his victims. That man is evil and committed evil against those people and their ages are irrelevant. The whole, "well, if they'd never been there, they wouldn't be victims" is a crock.

Yep.

 

I know very little about the movie, but I do know parents who have taken their little ones to midnight showings. It was a treat. I cry every time I think about this excited little guy whose parents wanted to give him this super cool memory (the time I got to be one of the first people to see a movie, in the middle of the night).

 

I don't see horrible parents there. I see young parents with littles that will sleep through trying to have some fun and others trying to make an exciting memory.

 

I do wish the self proclaimed super heroes could be put to the test, but only a little.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

:iagree: Between the smoke and mob there would not have been a shot.

 

Yep.

 

I know very little about the movie, but I do know parents who have taken their little ones to midnight showings. It was a treat. I cry every time I think about this excited little guy whose parents wanted to give him this super cool memory (the time I got to be one of the first people to see a movie, in the middle of the night).

 

I don't see horrible parents there. I see young parents with littles that will sleep through trying to have some fun and others trying to make an exciting memory.

 

I do wish the self proclaimed super heroes could be put to the test, but only a little.

 

I feel for all of the victims and their families, but yes the 6 year old strikes me a bit more, as I can see my sweet nephews (6 and 7) being all googly eyed over getting to go to a midnight showing of a movie they were excited about.

DH has a theory that most men have at one time or another sat around in a bank or similar setting and thought "How would I stop an armed robbery here?" when reliving their childhood superhero fantasy days.

Of course, he also thinks a fair number of men have also planned out a similar robbery while sitting there reliving their childhood cops and robbers/Jesse James fantasies.