MrsBasil Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I need help! My dd barely sleeps, fights me every step of the way, and is up a lot. She is breastfed and eats solids. My DH is working 14-16 hours days 6 days a week. I am on my own. I know this gets heated, so if you are someone who is. a. OK with me considering weaning just so I can get a break once in awhile. b. have any ideas for getting an 8 month old to just sleep! c. understand that I am depressed, exhausted, and at the end of my rope and that my 3 year old needs a more on the ball mommy. d. won't tell me to just cosleep, hold her more, and nurse her more and all my problems will be magically solved and aren't an attachment style parent.\ e. might be able to help? Please let me know so I can PM you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Well, I'm not sure how much help I'll be, but I qualify as a non-AP parent. :D Most definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I used to let my daughter have my hand while she fell asleep. If she cried, I left the room. Granted she was a year old by then, 8 months is gonna be harder. My youngest wouldn't sleep without some music going. When my youngest went through his really cranky stage at about 9-12 months, We actually hung his car seat from a hook in the ceiling with a tether strap and swung him that way. Sounds a little crazy, but the hook was in a beam, and he loved it. Fell asleep every time, whether it was for a nap or during the night. I know it's not ideal for teaching the kids to go to bed, but when their little, you do what you gotta do to get some rest yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 a. OK with me considering weaning just so I can get a break once in awhile. Introduce a cup with juice, water or formula as she is too young to have cow's milk yet. Maybe nut milk but I'm not sure. b. have any ideas for getting an 8 month old to just sleep! Just let her fuss as long as she stays in her crib. If she is crying, don't pick her up. Just reassure her that you are still alive by patting her and lying her back down. Or let her cry it out. c. understand that I am depressed, exhausted, and at the end of my rope and that my 3 year old needs a more on the ball mommy. Hire a mommy's helper a couple days a week for a few hours. Or put your dd in a mommy's morning out program a couple times a week. d. won't tell me to just cosleep, hold her more, and nurse her more and all my problems will be magically solved and aren't an attachment style parent.\ Make sure she is active during her awake hours and goes to bed with a full tummy. If she truly won't go to sleep, make sure she has safe soft toys in her crib, can't get out and just let her entertain herself. It isn't ideal but might get you six hours of uninterrupted sleep. And everyone including your 3-year old should take a 2 hour nap every afternoon. Even if you are the only one sleeping. Make sure the crib is safe and the 3-year old knows not to leave his bed. e. might be able to help? :grouphug: I wish I had something else. Oh, what about a pacifier, special blanket or other self comforting item? Have you tried white noise in the baby's room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phathui5 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Have you read The No Cry Sleep Solution? She talks about helping your baby learn to sleep at night without lots of crying. Do you have resources you can tap for getting a break? Is there another mom who could take the kids for a couple hours once a week or every other week? Then you could get time to yourself without having to wean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegP Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I agree about the 2 hour nap every afternoon for the whole family! It will save your sanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Have you read The No Cry Sleep Solution? She talks about helping your baby learn to sleep at night without lots of crying. Do you have resources you can tap for getting a break? Is there another mom who could take the kids for a couple hours once a week or every other week? Then you could get time to yourself without having to wean. I'll look it up and see if the library has it. Breaks, not much. I have a teenage neighbor who will come for $5 an hour. I have the funds for her occasionally right....DH started a new job and we're in the process of bouncing back from a really hard year. I don't have a car when he's at work. That makes it tough to trade babysitting. My mother fell of the wagon again a few weeks back, I love her, but she's not trustworthy. My MIL isn't mobile. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
learningmama Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 My difficult dd weaned at 8 months. Although a bottle did not magically help her sleep. She was around 1 year when she finally started to sleep better. Will your little one take a pacifier to help herself soothe any? My dd loved to watch shows such as Baby Einstein since she was 3 months. Those 20-30 minute shows were my sanity in the early years. She also liked the freedom of walking around in her walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 So, I'm on my way out, but do you have family? Around that time I had my husband feed rice milk to my son for a couple of nights in a row so I could get some sleep. I am someone who believes in long term nursing and co-sleeping was easiest for ME because I didn't have to get out of bed. BUT, if you're depressed, you seriously need to give yourself a break. Go to the DR and see if you can get some meds to tide you over. It's not easy having babies and kids... and loss of sleep. Another option is seeing if you can get a teen to come over and be there so you can get some naps. There's nothing like a good nap to let you catch up on sleep. For some reason, naps are sometimes more beneficial than night sleep, when you're sleep deprived. Wish you were closer... I'd give you a break. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegP Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'll look it up and see if the library has it. Breaks, not much. I have a teenage neighbor who will come for $5 an hour. I have the funds for her occasionally right....DH started a new job and we're in the process of bouncing back from a really hard year. I don't have a car when he's at work. That makes it tough to trade babysitting. My mother fell of the wagon again a few weeks back, I love her, but she's not trustworthy. My MIL isn't mobile. Thank you. All the more reason for a 2 hour daily nap for everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 http://www.babygotosleep.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=2 This is an amazing cd... I use to buy it for everyone for a baby gift :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipsey Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Oooh, that's so hard! I know if I don't get my sleep I'm a wreck. So, we followed the Baby Whisperer's advice. When baby woke at night, and stood up. . uh, this was once they could stand up, I can't remember what to do with one who might not be standing yet. We'd gently take her and lay her down again. We'd say, "It's time to go to sleep." and then she'd get up again. We'd do this over and over again. Until she was too tired to get back up, and she'd go to sleep :) The B.W. said to count, so you didn't go crazy. The first time was about 30 times she rose. She got up one more time that night, and only stood up about 6 times. The next two nights were less. 4th night, that was pretty much it. As far as putting to bed, we also started a routine and helped her anticipate. As soon as Hubby started singing her bedtime song, she would begin to yawn! We did this for our first and learned. Then, with our others, it was no problem. It sounds like magic, but I'm just telling what worked for us. The Baby Whisperer saved me from getting my tubes tied :) I was at my wits' end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 a. OK with me considering weaning just so I can get a break once in awhile.Introduce a cup with juice, water or formula as she is too young to have cow's milk yet. Maybe nut milk but I'm not sure. b. have any ideas for getting an 8 month old to just sleep! Just let her fuss as long as she stays in her crib. If she is crying, don't pick her up. Just reassure her that you are still alive by patting her and lying her back down. Or let her cry it out. c. understand that I am depressed, exhausted, and at the end of my rope and that my 3 year old needs a more on the ball mommy. Hire a mommy's helper a couple days a week for a few hours. Or put your dd in a mommy's morning out program a couple times a week. d. won't tell me to just cosleep, hold her more, and nurse her more and all my problems will be magically solved and aren't an attachment style parent.\ Make sure she is active during her awake hours and goes to bed with a full tummy. If she truly won't go to sleep, make sure she has safe soft toys in her crib, can't get out and just let her entertain herself. It isn't ideal but might get you six hours of uninterrupted sleep. And everyone including your 3-year old should take a 2 hour nap every afternoon. Even if you are the only one sleeping. Make sure the crib is safe and the 3-year old knows not to leave his bed. e. might be able to help? :grouphug: I wish I had something else. Oh, what about a pacifier, special blanket or other self comforting item? Have you tried white noise in the baby's room? Cups a great idea! She's always trying to steal her brothers. Formula would work and fill her up, maybe. If she's in her crib she's either asleep or crying. I can only handle letting her cry for so long before I feel like the most rotten mom on the planet. I did it once., 45 minutes later she was asleep and slept all night. The next day she wouldn't sleep at all. :glare: 3 year old takes a 2-2.5 hour nap every day. I try to get her to nap, it's just not working much. I have a mother's helper starting next week, but I have to be careful how much I hire her for. I have no access to a car(or funds for one) and there are no mother's day out programs for infants within a reasonable walking distance. Thank you for the hugs. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 I see a lot of replies and thank you! I will be coming back to this later tonight, my 3 year old is waking up and I have a brave sitter coming for my DD. I have a car tonight, so DS and I are headed for frozen yogurt and the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissad2 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I had one that didn't sleep through the night til he was 2! He was a nurse all night kind of baby. The only thing that ever helped him was to make sure he had a full tummy before bed. I started feeding him yogurt with baby cereal mixed in as a bedtime snack and he started sleeping longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I can help. :001_smile: I used the methods in Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child when my DD was 8 months. Whew, I felt like a new woman after just a few days! I did not need to wean, she continued to nurse until she was 21 months and my milk dried up because I was pregnant with DS. Please feel free to PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Cups a great idea! She's always trying to steal her brothers. Formula would work and fill her up, maybe. If she's in her crib she's either asleep or crying. I can only handle letting her cry for so long before I feel like the most rotten mom on the planet. I did it once., 45 minutes later she was asleep and slept all night. The next day she wouldn't sleep at all. :glare: You are not a bad mom. Maybe she is one of those kids that will sleep all night but not nap. Maybe she is a little confused and needs clear... "boundaries" for lack of a better word. Back when dd was 6 months old and waking every hour to use me as a human pacifier, I didn't know of any other way and dh's grandmother's advice was to CIO. It took two nights of crying (the first longer than the second) and she slept through the night ever since. Dd is a sleeper though. For most of her life she has needed 12 hours a day. Even now at 12 she sleeps 10.5 hours a night. More :grouphug:. You are not a bad mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I can help. :001_smile: I used the methods in Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child when my DD was 8 months. Whew, I felt like a new woman after just a few days! I did not need to wean, she continued to nurse until she was 21 months and my milk dried up because I was pregnant with DS. Please feel free to PM me. :iagree: I loved this book. I could not cope without sleep. Flame me if you like, but I know how it pushed me to the edge and I'm glad I taught my little one to sleep. It did not take long (3-4 nights) and we never went back. We didn't quit nursing either -- I had plenty of milk despite baby sleeping all night. Feel free to PM me if you'd like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:I understand now desperate one feels when a child won't allow sleep. I hope you find a solution soon!!! I'm sorry I can't help as out situation was entirely different. Dd came from an orphanage in a foreign country. I can understand how hard it was on her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child :iagree:I loved this book. I could not cope without sleep. Flame me if you like, but I know how it pushed me to the edge and I'm glad I taught my little one to sleep. It did not take long (3-4 nights) and we never went back. We didn't quit nursing either -- I had plenty of milk despite baby sleeping all night. :iagree: Weissbluth (cheap used; also the library probably has it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 :grouphug: My son was a cry-er. Oh my goodness, that kid would not go to sleep. I understood him b/c I have a hard time going to sleep. To this day, he has a hard time falling asleep. He weaned himself @ 10 mos and I was fine with that. My thought is that you need to be rested and taken care of, even if that means doing things differently than another mom or even how you thought you were going to do it. Hope that some of the book suggestions here will help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Stay with me a minute. :) One secret to my parenting style (AP-- but don't hang up!) was my guilt -free ability to use neighborhood Mother's Helpers. A 12 year- old hser could save your life! I had absolutely no problems having these young girls push my little ones in the infant swing outside, or take the child for a walk up and down the street-- back and forth- and then come in and roll out endless playdough coils. Sometimes... I even went to my room while the MH sat on the floor stacking blocks so the baby or tot could giggle, and knock them down 10 million times in a row. My oldest was 10 when the youngest was born, and I put the Baby Bjorn on him by the tme the baby was 3 months old. Ok. Perhaps I am the most lax AP parent, ever. But all survived infancy and toddlerhood, and none are the worse for wear. :) Edited June 22, 2012 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Ok. Perhaps I am the most lax AP parent, ever. But all survived infancy and toddlerhood, and none ate the worse for wear. :) IMO AP parenting is all about what is healthiest for the child, and the mother. That means mental health as well. You have had great advice. The no Cry Sleep Solution is a good book. I have one that still has some sleep troubles, and one that sleeps like a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 If you want to wean her, it's really ok! I'd do that first, then deal with the sleep issue. For the sleep issue, I'd try the crying it out thing. I did that with both of my children and things were *much* better within just a few nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 My ds weaned himself at about 6 months. He has ad/hd and was just too busy and curious to bother w/ having booKs in his mouth and blocking his view of the world. One thing that helped was I would give him cereal followed by a bottle at about 10 or 11 at night. It helped fill him up and sleep better. If I could go back in time and by a white noise machine, I would have done that too. Every little noise kept him up. If I was awake, so was he. He finally started sleeping at age 12. Years, not months. But the extra cereal at night did help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveOaksAcademy Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug: I have nothing but want to offer you encouragement to do the thing that helps you be the mom you need to be, which is a well-rested one. That lack of sleep most definitely affects depression (ask me how I know). Co-sleeping is not a commandment in the Bible, neither is breastfeeding forever. :D I hope some wise moms offer you what you need!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 My nursling who wouldn't sleep turned out to be allergic to pretty much everything- dairy, egg, nuts, wheat, barley... He was nursing for comfort, then feeling worse because of the allergens. Something to consider if you have seen any symptoms- ours were eczema and the fussiness. Reflux could be an issue as well. We went with Alimentum RTF for our babes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellydon Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 If you haven't night weaned, I would do that first. This is the method we used to night wean our babies, usually at 9 months. It is from Dr. Jay Gordon, who promotes a family bed. BUT, I used it with my crib sleeping babies. Now, that said,they did not sleep through the night after weaning, but at least I didn't have to nurse them and I could send DH every other time. Here’s what I recommend for older babies: Choose the most valuable seven hours of sleep for yourselves. I personally prefer 11p.m. through 6 a.m. but you might have a slightly different idea. I try to do this in three- and four-night intervals. I’m assuming that you have a wonderfully healthy 12-, 15-, 20- or 30-month old baby who still loves to wake up every 2 to 4 hours to cuddle, eat or . . . whatever. I’m assuming that you have thought this through, decided you want to make changes and alerted the neighbors that it might be a little noisy for a week or so. I’m assuming that both parents agree — or almost agree — that this is the best thing to do. And, most important assumption of all, you are willing to go “in a straight line†to the goal of seven straight hours of sleep. The reason for that last statement: If your baby learns that crying, for an hour will get him fed you will set yourself back quite a bit. This is the best program I have seen but it’s far from easy. And now, to say it again, I really like what you’ve been doing. Cuddling, nursing, hugging through the night. Don’t change this with my program or any other if you’re happy doing what you’re doing. But . . . The First Three Nights At any time before 11 p.m. (including 10:58) nurse to sleep, cuddle and nurse when he wakes up and nurse him back to sleep, but stop offering nursing to sleep as the solution to waking after 11 p.m.. Instead….. When your baby awakens at midnight or any other time after 11 p.m., hug him, nurse him for a short time but make sure he does not fall asleep on the breast and put him down awake. Rub and pat and cuddle a little until he falls asleep but don’t put him back on the breast (or give him a bottle if that’s what you’ve been doing). He must fall asleep with your comfort beside him, but not having to nurse to feel comforted enough to drift off. Now, he will tell you that he is angry and intensely dislikes this new routine. I believe him. He will also try to tell you that he’s scared. I believe he’s angry, but a baby who’s had hundreds of nights in a row of cuddling is not scared of falling asleep with your hand on his back and your voice in his ear. Angry, yes. Scared, no, not really. During these first three nights, repeat this pattern only after he has slept. He might sleep for fifteen minutes or he might sleep for four hours, but he has to go to sleep and reawaken to get cuddled and fed again. These will be hard nights. You may have decided you’re really not ready to do this. That’s OK. Stop and start over again in a few months if you like. Choosing the right time is crucial and many people choose a time suggested or pushed by friends, doctors or in-laws. This doesn’t work as well. Is it better to do this in the family bed, a crib in the same room or using a crib in another room? I prefer to continue the family bed even though it might seem harder at first, but it has always seemed harder to me to be putting a baby in and out of a crib. However, a crib or toddler bed in your room may be what works best for you. Another option is to expand your bed’s limits by placing another mattress against your mattress. A bit more space for each family member may help to solve some of the sleep issues. My least favorite choice is a crib or bed in a separate bedroom. Again, during these first three nights, between 11 p.m. and 6 a.m., cuddle and feed short, put him down awake, rub, pat, talk until he falls asleep and repeat this cycle only after he’s slept and reawakened. At 6:01 a.m., do whatever you have been doing as a morning routine ignoring the previous seven hours’ patterns. Many babies will roll over, nurse and cuddle back to sleep and give you an extra hour or so. Some won’t. For me, one of the most reassuring parts of this “sleep plan†is seeing that babies wake up fine, happy and grudge-free about the change in the rules. You’ll see what I mean, even if the first few minutes of the morning are not exactly as they’ve always been. The Second Three Nights Again, the nursing to sleep stops at 11 p.m. When he wakes up, hug him and cuddle him for a few minutes, but do not feed him, put him down awake. Putting him down awake is a crucial part of this whole endeavor because it really does teach him to fall asleep with a little less contact and then a little less. Not feeding is the big change during these three nights. One-year-old babies can easily go for those seven hours (or more) with no calories. Theylike to get fed a little through the night, but physiologically and nutritionally, this is not a long time to go without food. If I could wake my wife a few times each night, ask her to squeeze me a little fresh orange juice (my favorite drink) and rub my back while I drank it, I wouldn’t choose to voluntarily give up this routine. My wife might have some different ideas and get tired of the pattern quickly. Babies rarely give up their favorite patterns and things — day or night– without balking and crying. I really don’t like listening to babies cry. I actually hate listening to babies cry. Unlike them, though, we adults can truly understand the implications of lack of sleep for a family of three, four or more people. Sleep patterns sometimes have to be changed. The incredible safety and reassurance the family bed has provided, and continues to provide, supplies the best context and location for these changes. During these second three nights, some babies will cry and protest for ten minutes at a time and some will go for an hour or more. Your toddler is aware that you are right beside him, offering comfort and soothing. It just isn’t the mode of comfort he wants at the moment. It is hard to listen to him fuss, but it will work. I believe that a well-loved baby, after a year or more in the family bed, will be the ultimate beneficiary of his parents getting more sleep. Not coincidentally, the parents benefit “big time,†too. “Yes, for the past many months we have enjoyed voting “1 to 2″ — non-democratically — in favor of . . . the baby. ‘Anyone want to get up all night, feed and walk the baby and be really tired all day and the next day too?’ Well, the vote is 1 to 2 in favor of the baby.†Now, what we’re saying is, we will sometimes be voting two to one in favor of the baby’s family. This “baby’s family†concept may be abhorrent to he who considers himself the King of England, or Emperor of the Whole World, but our knowing he has that feeling of power allows us to confidently demote the dictator to a majority-respecting member of the family. His family. By the end of the sixth night, your baby is going back to sleep without being nursed or fed. He’s going back to sleep after a nice hug, a cuddle and with your hand on his back and your words in his ear. If, at any point this is feeling “wrong†to you, stop, wait some months and start over. Don’t go against your “gut instincts†which tell you that this is the wrong time to get longer sleep intervals from your baby. Your instincts are better than any sleep-modification program ever written. The Next Four Nights Nights seven, eight, nine and ten. Don’t pick him up, don’t hug him. When he awakens after 11 p.m., talk to him, touch him, talk some more, but don’t pick him up. Rub and pat only. No feeding either, obviously. He will fall back to sleep. Repeat the rubbing and talking when he reawakens. By the end of the ninth night, he will be falling back to sleep, albeit reluctantly for some babies and toddlers, with only a rub and a soothing voice. After After these first ten nights, continue to cuddle and feed to sleep if you like and he wants to, but do nothing when he wakes up except to touch a little and talk to him briefly. This may continue for another three or four nights but occasionally keeps going for another week or more. Then . . . it stops. He has learned that he is just as well-loved, gets virtually everything he needs and wants all day, but must give seven hours per night back to his parents and family. What happens if you travel, he gets sick or some other circumstance demands a return to more nighttime interaction? Nothing. You do what you need to do (cuddle, nurse, walk, in the middle of the night, as many times as you need to) and then spend a night or two or three getting back to the new pattern the family has established. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 My daughter was high needs and I was exhausted. My son is 7 years older than her, but one thing that saved me was Time4Learning and other computer games. I would log him into a game, pull the rocking chair up next to him, feed and rock the baby, and sometimes nap in the chair while he happily played the games. Other days he would watch lots of educational videos so I could sort of nap with the baby. I know your husband works many hours, but he needs to have a role in this also. Once you have her weaned, you need to have at least one night a week off duty. My dh would pick one night each week, usually Friday since he didn't have to work on Saturday, and he was on baby duty that night. He handled all feedings, diaper changes, baths, and so on. That night it was my turn to sleep all night. Another couple recommended this when my son was an infant and it absolutely saved my sanity. I was refreshed at least one day a week and always knew that I had a break coming which made everything bearable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 just out of curiosity, have you tried eliminating ALL dairy from your diet? You could have been me about 10 yrs back. My sweetie had a milk-protein allergy. My other 2 were able to digest breast milk with no dairy, but my 2nd dd could not digest dairy at all. No spitting up, just passed tiny bits of blood in her stool. You may want to give it a try. It changed my babies to not have dairy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I see you are getting good advice in this thread but if you want to PM me, you are welcome to. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I do tend to be more of an AP parent, but my DD was not a napper. Despite everything, she still didn't nap much at all. My boys have all been better nappers, though, and I think it was largely because of two things (well, maybe personality also; DD has always been more high energy than the boys): one, putting them on their tummies to nap (where I could see them) and two, being able to wear them down to sleep a lot, especially in a wrap where they could snuggle up and feel swaddled and close to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I also loved Healthy Sleep Habits. You've gotten lots of good advice, so here's just another:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagine.more Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I need help! My dd barely sleeps, fights me every step of the way, and is up a lot. She is breastfed and eats solids. My DH is working 14-16 hours days 6 days a week. I am on my own. I know this gets heated, so if you are someone who is. a. OK with me considering weaning just so I can get a break once in awhile. b. have any ideas for getting an 8 month old to just sleep! c. understand that I am depressed, exhausted, and at the end of my rope and that my 3 year old needs a more on the ball mommy. d. won't tell me to just cosleep, hold her more, and nurse her more and all my problems will be magically solved and aren't an attachment style parent.\ e. might be able to help? Please let me know so I can PM you. Wow, you have a lot on your plate, I'd be exhausted too! I am not an Attachment Parent, I have great friends who are, but it is not for me, I am very much the opposite. Just for reference, I have actually worked as a baby sleep consultant before, just recently for actual pay though that's not the norm for me, lol! Anyway, 5 years nannying experience and 2 kids (one with severe reflux and colic) who both are happy sleepers now. Anyway, I'm currently working with another mom so I'm online a lot checking for messages from her anyway. Feel free to PM me and ask away, I'm happy to give advice and you can take whatever works for you and leave the rest. Personally I think any baby advice goes best when it's geared towards that family's needs and style, whether that is structured or unstructured, okay with CIO or not or anywhere in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsinkableKristen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 If you haven't night weaned, I would do that first. This is the method we used to night wean our babies, usually at 9 months. It is from Dr. Jay Gordon, who promotes a family bed. BUT, I used it with my crib sleeping babies. Now, that said,they did not sleep through the night after weaning, but at least I didn't have to nurse them and I could send DH every other time. Here’s what I recommend for older babies: Choose the most valuable seven hours of sleep for yourselves. I personally prefer 11p.m. through 6 a.m. but you might have a slightly different idea. I try to do this in three- and four-night intervals. I’m assuming that you have a wonderfully healthy 12-, 15-, 20- or 30-month old baby who still loves to wake up every 2 to 4 hours to cuddle, eat or . . . whatever. I’m assuming that you have thought this through, decided you want to make changes and alerted the neighbors that it might be a little noisy for a week or so. I’m assuming that both parents agree — or almost agree — that this is the best thing to do. And, most important assumption of all, you are willing to go “in a straight line†to the goal of seven straight hours of sleep. The reason for that last statement: If your baby learns that crying, for an hour will get him fed you will set yourself back quite a bit. This is the best program I have seen but it’s far from easy. And now, to say it again, I really like what you’ve been doing. Cuddling, nursing, hugging through the night. Don’t change this with my program or any other if you’re happy doing what you’re doing. But . . . The First Three Nights At any time before 11 p.m. (including 10:58) nurse to sleep, cuddle and nurse when he wakes up and nurse him back to sleep, but stop offering nursing to sleep as the solution to waking after 11 p.m.. Instead….. When your baby awakens at midnight or any other time after 11 p.m., hug him, nurse him for a short time but make sure he does not fall asleep on the breast and put him down awake. Rub and pat and cuddle a little until he falls asleep but don’t put him back on the breast (or give him a bottle if that’s what you’ve been doing). He must fall asleep with your comfort beside him, but not having to nurse to feel comforted enough to drift off. Now, he will tell you that he is angry and intensely dislikes this new routine. I believe him. He will also try to tell you that he’s scared. I believe he’s angry, but a baby who’s had hundreds of nights in a row of cuddling is not scared of falling asleep with your hand on his back and your voice in his ear. Angry, yes. Scared, no, not really. During these first three nights, repeat this pattern only after he has slept. He might sleep for fifteen minutes or he might sleep for four hours, but he has to go to sleep and reawaken to get cuddled and fed again. These will be hard nights. You may have decided you’re really not ready to do this. That’s OK. Stop and start over again in a few months if you like. Choosing the right time is crucial and many people choose a time suggested or pushed by friends, doctors or in-laws. This doesn’t work as well. Is it better to do this in the family bed, a crib in the same room or using a crib in another room? I prefer to continue the family bed even though it might seem harder at first, but it has always seemed harder to me to be putting a baby in and out of a crib. However, a crib or toddler bed in your room may be what works best for you. Another option is to expand your bed’s limits by placing another mattress against your mattress. A bit more space for each family member may help to solve some of the sleep issues. My least favorite choice is a crib or bed in a separate bedroom. Again, during these first three nights, between 11 p.m. and 6 a.m., cuddle and feed short, put him down awake, rub, pat, talk until he falls asleep and repeat this cycle only after he’s slept and reawakened. At 6:01 a.m., do whatever you have been doing as a morning routine ignoring the previous seven hours’ patterns. Many babies will roll over, nurse and cuddle back to sleep and give you an extra hour or so. Some won’t. For me, one of the most reassuring parts of this “sleep plan†is seeing that babies wake up fine, happy and grudge-free about the change in the rules. You’ll see what I mean, even if the first few minutes of the morning are not exactly as they’ve always been. The Second Three Nights Again, the nursing to sleep stops at 11 p.m. When he wakes up, hug him and cuddle him for a few minutes, but do not feed him, put him down awake. Putting him down awake is a crucial part of this whole endeavor because it really does teach him to fall asleep with a little less contact and then a little less. Not feeding is the big change during these three nights. One-year-old babies can easily go for those seven hours (or more) with no calories. Theylike to get fed a little through the night, but physiologically and nutritionally, this is not a long time to go without food. If I could wake my wife a few times each night, ask her to squeeze me a little fresh orange juice (my favorite drink) and rub my back while I drank it, I wouldn’t choose to voluntarily give up this routine. My wife might have some different ideas and get tired of the pattern quickly. Babies rarely give up their favorite patterns and things — day or night– without balking and crying. I really don’t like listening to babies cry. I actually hate listening to babies cry. Unlike them, though, we adults can truly understand the implications of lack of sleep for a family of three, four or more people. Sleep patterns sometimes have to be changed. The incredible safety and reassurance the family bed has provided, and continues to provide, supplies the best context and location for these changes. During these second three nights, some babies will cry and protest for ten minutes at a time and some will go for an hour or more. Your toddler is aware that you are right beside him, offering comfort and soothing. It just isn’t the mode of comfort he wants at the moment. It is hard to listen to him fuss, but it will work. I believe that a well-loved baby, after a year or more in the family bed, will be the ultimate beneficiary of his parents getting more sleep. Not coincidentally, the parents benefit “big time,†too. “Yes, for the past many months we have enjoyed voting “1 to 2″ — non-democratically — in favor of . . . the baby. ‘Anyone want to get up all night, feed and walk the baby and be really tired all day and the next day too?’ Well, the vote is 1 to 2 in favor of the baby.†Now, what we’re saying is, we will sometimes be voting two to one in favor of the baby’s family. This “baby’s family†concept may be abhorrent to he who considers himself the King of England, or Emperor of the Whole World, but our knowing he has that feeling of power allows us to confidently demote the dictator to a majority-respecting member of the family. His family. By the end of the sixth night, your baby is going back to sleep without being nursed or fed. He’s going back to sleep after a nice hug, a cuddle and with your hand on his back and your words in his ear. If, at any point this is feeling “wrong†to you, stop, wait some months and start over. Don’t go against your “gut instincts†which tell you that this is the wrong time to get longer sleep intervals from your baby. Your instincts are better than any sleep-modification program ever written. The Next Four Nights Nights seven, eight, nine and ten. Don’t pick him up, don’t hug him. When he awakens after 11 p.m., talk to him, touch him, talk some more, but don’t pick him up. Rub and pat only. No feeding either, obviously. He will fall back to sleep. Repeat the rubbing and talking when he reawakens. By the end of the ninth night, he will be falling back to sleep, albeit reluctantly for some babies and toddlers, with only a rub and a soothing voice. After After these first ten nights, continue to cuddle and feed to sleep if you like and he wants to, but do nothing when he wakes up except to touch a little and talk to him briefly. This may continue for another three or four nights but occasionally keeps going for another week or more. Then . . . it stops. He has learned that he is just as well-loved, gets virtually everything he needs and wants all day, but must give seven hours per night back to his parents and family. What happens if you travel, he gets sick or some other circumstance demands a return to more nighttime interaction? Nothing. You do what you need to do (cuddle, nurse, walk, in the middle of the night, as many times as you need to) and then spend a night or two or three getting back to the new pattern the family has established. This sounds really great and I may be giving it a go once DS is a little older. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Also, for night weaning from the breast, I would try enlisting dad's help. I've not night weaned a baby, but with my 2yo's, I've had to do a bit of night weaning when pregnant. It has been tremendously helpful to have them snuggle up with DH. Even as infants, they'll fuss for milk for me, but if Daddy has them, they're more readily accepting of snuggling, back-patting, etc. Another thing that worked for me when I was pregnant with my first son and couldn't really nurse DD to sleep anymore was that rocking in a chair was part of our routine already. So when I could only nurse her for a couple of minutes, she was already used to rocking, and that helped her fall asleep, making the transition a little easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 ...if you are someone who is. a. OK with me considering weaning just so I can get a break once in awhile. b. have any ideas for getting an 8 month old to just sleep! c. understand that I am depressed, exhausted, and at the end of my rope and that my 3 year old needs a more on the ball mommy. d. won't tell me to just cosleep, hold her more, and nurse her more and all my problems will be magically solved and aren't an attachment style parent.\ e. might be able to help? Please let me know so I can PM you. I meet your requirements. Feel free to pm me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 You know, at 8mo if she's getting solids, I'm thinking you should make sure she has a good supper, and then the next time she wants to nurse after that, do it and put her to bed. If she doesn't want to nurse by, oh, 8, put her to bed anyway and see what happens. She might sniffle and grumble a bit, but she might go to sleep. If she wakes up at midnight, nurse her and put her back to bed (although for myself, I took baby back to bed, because we co-slept well). You might be able to help her find that 6-hr sleep window if you do this. I don't consider this "night weaning." It puzzles me when people say this. I have, in fact, never heard anyone IRL say that, only here on this forum. Anyway, it isn't "weaning." It's helping baby sleep through the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 You know, at 8mo if she's getting solids, I'm thinking you should make sure she has a good supper, and then the next time she wants to nurse after that, do it and put her to bed. If she doesn't want to nurse by, oh, 8, put her to bed anyway and see what happens. She might sniffle and grumble a bit, but she might go to sleep. If she wakes up at midnight, nurse her and put her back to bed (although for myself, I took baby back to bed, because we co-slept well). You might be able to help her find that 6-hr sleep window if you do this. I don't consider this "night weaning." It puzzles me when people say this. I have, in fact, never heard anyone IRL say that, only here on this forum. Anyway, it isn't "weaning." It's helping baby sleep through the night. That wouldn't be night weaning. If you night wean you would NOT nurse them if they woke up at midnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 http://www.babygotosleep.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=2 This is an amazing cd... I use to buy it for everyone for a baby gift :) THESE are just what I was thinking. I was a foster parent of MANY MANY infants over a 10 year period. Now, they were all formula fed but most had experienced quite a bit of trauma in their little lives. I had a system that was almost fail proof---esp. for those over 6 months old who didn't have special medical needs. 1. The CDs mentioned above were used on a CD player that would keep looping the songs all night long. Or I would use a very soft elevator music type radio station or a sound machine. 2. Room was dark with just a 7 watt night light. 3. Right amount/layers of clothes. In the winter they would get a onsie, then lightweight PJs and a heavy weight blanket sleeper over the top. In the summer it was a onsie and blanket sleeper or heavier weight PJs. Think of how many layers you have one to be comfortable at night and approximate that---taking into consideration that they don't have blankets they keep on. 4. A set bedtime/nap schedule. Ours was nap at 10am (if under 12-15 months old), nap at 1:30 for everyone preschool age and under, and catnap if needed late afternoon/early evening for real littles, and then bedtime of 8:30/9pm. That was a schedule that worked for us. 5. I would give a snack just before bed. For the babies it might be rice cereal or other babyfood along with their formula. I certainly won't say that I have the solution to all children not sleeping but this worked for me with about 50+ foster babies---including those who that workers told me "never" slept. I do agree though with seeing if a change in your diet helps. The one I had the most trouble with had food allergies/intolerances and once we took her dairy and wheat free (so many baby food are not wheat free) she did SOOOO much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Someone may have mentioned this, but have you looked at what you're eating that might be getting through to her? My DD9 was so sensitive to caffeine as an infant that I couldn't even drink decaf--even the teeny chocolate chips I was eating in my breakfast granola bar were making her crazy. Once I quit all caffeine (that was a very hard year :banghead:), things smoothed out quite a bit. My second had no issues at all with caffeine, thank goodness! Maybe she has a problem with dairy that she's getting via your milk? Something like that? I think people need to do what works for them, but I'm not sure I think weaning will solve your problem. If no one else is around to help you give nighttime bottles, you're waking up anyway. I hope you find something that works for you :grouphug: ETA: I see Ottakee just mentioned the diet. I've heard so many people say they see miraculous changes in their kids when they make some changes (sometimes drastic, sometimes minimal) to diet. The key is having the patience to find the right thing. I have always thought of DD6 as a difficult kid--difficult pregnancy, difficult infancy, crazy toddler years etc. When she was 5, I discovered that food colors make her temper go wild. So who knows what keeping food colors out of her diet entirely might have done for her as a baby? (I carry lots of guilt about that one *sigh*) If you can manage it, experimenting with the big sensitivities (dairy, gluten, soy, food colors, MSG/sulfites) in both of your diets may yield some changes for all of you. Edited June 22, 2012 by melissel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 I agree about the 2 hour nap every afternoon for the whole family! It will save your sanity! I'll have to see if I can make this work. A nap sounds amazing! So, I'm on my way out, but do you have family? Around that time I had my husband feed rice milk to my son for a couple of nights in a row so I could get some sleep. I am someone who believes in long term nursing and co-sleeping was easiest for ME because I didn't have to get out of bed. BUT, if you're depressed, you seriously need to give yourself a break. Go to the DR and see if you can get some meds to tide you over. It's not easy having babies and kids... and loss of sleep. Another option is seeing if you can get a teen to come over and be there so you can get some naps. There's nothing like a good nap to let you catch up on sleep. For some reason, naps are sometimes more beneficial than night sleep, when you're sleep deprived. Wish you were closer... I'd give you a break. :) That's really sweet, thank you. As soon as I get insurance I will see a Dr. For now, I'm trying to exercise every day-which is really fun on 3-4 hours of sleep and eat a bunch of fresh/frozen fruits and veggies. I eat that, an egg omelet with cheese, and a small amount of meat and grain and I feel like I got more than 4 hours sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 I used to let my daughter have my hand while she fell asleep. If she cried, I left the room. Granted she was a year old by then, 8 months is gonna be harder. My youngest wouldn't sleep without some music going. When my youngest went through his really cranky stage at about 9-12 months, We actually hung his car seat from a hook in the ceiling with a tether strap and swung him that way. Sounds a little crazy, but the hook was in a beam, and he loved it. Fell asleep every time, whether it was for a nap or during the night. I know it's not ideal for teaching the kids to go to bed, but when their little, you do what you gotta do to get some rest yourself. My son slept in his swing for a month straight and that helped a lot. But DD hates the swing and her car seat. She likes to be active. I haven't tried music though. She likes music. The fan hasn't helped for white noise. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 My difficult dd weaned at 8 months. Although a bottle did not magically help her sleep. She was around 1 year when she finally started to sleep better. Will your little one take a pacifier to help herself soothe any? My dd loved to watch shows such as Baby Einstein since she was 3 months. Those 20-30 minute shows were my sanity in the early years. She also liked the freedom of walking around in her walker. She is mortally offended at the pacifier. She might tolerate a sippy cup if I'm not the one who attempts to give it to her. She likes music, so Baby Einstein might help. She likes the Elmo Sings Country DVD. She likes the Wiggles. I'll have to try those. A walker is brilliant. We have a room I could gate the stair off. She prefers to be active and involved. She refused to even be in any kind of carrier, sling, or wrap until she could face front. I bet I can find one on craigslist. Sometimes I wonder if the biggest obstacle is that there are other things going on? Brother, daddy, dog, happy cat, mean cat, a moth....She'll be nursing herself to sleep and a moth might fly by and she perks up like it's the most exciting thing in the world and watches it for several minutes. http://www.babygotosleep.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=2 This is an amazing cd... I use to buy it for everyone for a baby gift :) Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look for this! Oooh, that's so hard! I know if I don't get my sleep I'm a wreck.So, we followed the Baby Whisperer's advice. When baby woke at night, and stood up. . uh, this was once they could stand up, I can't remember what to do with one who might not be standing yet. We'd gently take her and lay her down again. We'd say, "It's time to go to sleep." and then she'd get up again. We'd do this over and over again. Until she was too tired to get back up, and she'd go to sleep :) The B.W. said to count, so you didn't go crazy. The first time was about 30 times she rose. She got up one more time that night, and only stood up about 6 times. The next two nights were less. 4th night, that was pretty much it. As far as putting to bed, we also started a routine and helped her anticipate. As soon as Hubby started singing her bedtime song, she would begin to yawn! We did this for our first and learned. Then, with our others, it was no problem. It sounds like magic, but I'm just telling what worked for us. The Baby Whisperer saved me from getting my tubes tied :) I was at my wits' end! I'll look into that book, is it long? I'm short on brain power these days. A routine is a good idea, just need to find one that I can do myself without DS interrupting. Thank you! I had one that didn't sleep through the night til he was 2! He was a nurse all night kind of baby. The only thing that ever helped him was to make sure he had a full tummy before bed. I started feeding him yogurt with baby cereal mixed in as a bedtime snack and he started sleeping longer. She does love yogurt, I might try to give her a second dinner and see how it goes. Both kids are total pigs for homemade Greek style yogurt that is barely sweetened. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 You are not a bad mom. Maybe she is one of those kids that will sleep all night but not nap. Maybe she is a little confused and needs clear... "boundaries" for lack of a better word. Back when dd was 6 months old and waking every hour to use me as a human pacifier, I didn't know of any other way and dh's grandmother's advice was to CIO. It took two nights of crying (the first longer than the second) and she slept through the night ever since. Dd is a sleeper though. For most of her life she has needed 12 hours a day. Even now at 12 she sleeps 10.5 hours a night. More :grouphug:. You are not a bad mom. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:I understand now desperate one feels when a child won't allow sleep. I hope you find a solution soon!!! I'm sorry I can't help as out situation was entirely different. Dd came from an orphanage in a foreign country. I can understand how hard it was on her! Thank you for the hugs and kind words. The response is overwhelming. :iagree: Weissbluth (cheap used; also the library probably has it) I have it on hold now. It's close to 500 pages. :svengo: Hopefully I can skim it and get the gist. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 :grouphug: My son was a cry-er. Oh my goodness, that kid would not go to sleep. I understood him b/c I have a hard time going to sleep. To this day, he has a hard time falling asleep. He weaned himself @ 10 mos and I was fine with that. My thought is that you need to be rested and taken care of, even if that means doing things differently than another mom or even how you thought you were going to do it. Hope that some of the book suggestions here will help! Thank you! :grouphug: Stay with me a minute. :) One secret to my parenting style (AP-- but don't hang up!) was my guilt -free ability to use neighborhood Mother's Helpers. A 12 year- old hser could save your life! I had absolutely no problems having these young girls push my little ones in the infant swing outside, or take the child for a walk up and down the street-- back and forth- and then come in and roll out endless playdough coils. Sometimes... I even went to my room while the MH sat on the floor stacking blocks so the baby or tot could giggle, and knock them down 10 million times in a row. My oldest was 10 when the youngest was born, and I put the Baby Bjorn on him by the tme the baby was 3 months old. Ok. Perhaps I am the most lax AP parent, ever. But all survived infancy and toddlerhood, and none are the worse for wear. :) I have a 15 year old neighbor who is bored at home and incredibly sweet. I'm moving money around to hire her more. She had DD for 2 hours tonight while DS and I went to the park, ran around, and sat a yogurt shop and ate frozen yogurt. He needed it and so did I. I came ready to handle DD and it went pretty smooth to get her to bed. IMO AP parenting is all about what is healthiest for the child, and the mother. That means mental health as well. You have had great advice. The no Cry Sleep Solution is a good book. I have one that still has some sleep troubles, and one that sleeps like a rock. Thank you! If you want to wean her, it's really ok! I'd do that first, then deal with the sleep issue. For the sleep issue, I'd try the crying it out thing. I did that with both of my children and things were *much* better within just a few nights. I think it's wean or I need more sleep. Something has to give. I have people who are willing to help feed her, but taking the night shift is not feasible or it's outside my comfort level for various reasons. Both kids are asleep, I have to come back to responding later! I am so grateful for everyone who replied. Thank you so much. I'm a little teary right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Thank you for the hugs and kind words. The response is overwhelming. I have it on hold now. It's close to 500 pages. :svengo: Hopefully I can skim it and get the gist. :tongue_smilie: I really, really can help. I have an email with a very condensed version of Healthy Sleep Habits. PM me and I can send it to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) I have it on hold now. It's close to 500 pages. :svengo: Hopefully I can skim it and get the gist. :tongue_smilie: Don't worry, you won't need to read the whole thing. I don't have mine anymore, but I'm guessing less than half, maybe just a few chapters. I probably read it out of order :tongue_smilie: but the early chapters with the charts and such are what I found particularly interesting. I don't even remember reading the OP - this is an 8 month old, correct? Schedule-wise, in my house, that would be around the time to drop the 3rd nap, depending. So, I'd shoot for two naps, around 9 and 1, with bedtime around 7 or earlier. Probably up by 6. As for nursing, personally I tended to have a low-ish supply in the early evening, around baby's bedtime. I pumped at other times and fed the pumped bottle, or had DH feed the pumped bottle, for bedtime (well, for my first child anyway - not for the other five, LOL; for them I used formula for the bottle even though I nursed the rest of the time; eta, I take that back - I just realized that I only nursed two of my six kids past that point; long story). Edited June 22, 2012 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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