Religious Content - if you aren't Christian - how do you handle conventions?

[frugalmama]

I didn't want to put CC as it's really not a Christian question.

 

If you aren't Christian but do practice a faith, how do you handle homeschool conventions that are overly Christian? What do you do when they open sessions in prayer? If it's obvious that you are not Christian - have you had issues?

 

 

We had our convention this weekend, and this is my first since leaving Christianity for Islam. I don't wear the hijab full time so it wasn't obvious that I am Muslim, but hopefully by next years convention I will be wearing it full time. I did cover with a over large bandana style head scarf but most just thought I was Mennonite since Rod & Staff was there as a vendor.

 

This is the ONLY local convention, and traveling to a secular one isn't an option. I enjoy the talks {for the most part} and pick the most secular ones. If they get too preachy I discretely leave. I enjoy looking at materials at the vendors - we use a lot of generically christian materials in our homeschool and so I really need to hands on preview them to check if they will work for us, if I will have to edit the books, etc before buying - a convention seems to be the only way to do that. I don't want to give up my annual convention and mama weekend!

[JennyD]

I'm Jewish and went to my first homeschool convention this past week, as one was being held 10 minutes from my house. It was run by the regional homeschool organization, which is explicitly Christian. I didn't attend any of the sessions, since all had some sort of Christian dimension to them and therefore didn't seem relevant, but as a general rule when someone leads a group in non-Jewish prayer I just sit quietly and try to look polite. I can't comment on the appearance thing but FWIW everyone at this convention was rushing around with their rolling carts and seemed totally preoccupied with their own agenda/shopping lists. I'm pretty sure I could have worn a gorilla suit and as long as I wasn't directly obstructing the Rainbow Resource checkout nobody would have noticed a thing. :001_smile:

 

As for the convention itself, it was kind of an interesting experience, but I didn't find it terribly useful. I was glad I had brought my gym bag just in case I had time to go for a swim, too, since DH had taken the kids for a couple of hours. I stayed for about 45 minutes, picked up a Pitsco brochure and bought an hair bun rolly thing that has subsequently proven to be largely useless, sigh. It seemed quite well-attended, which is of course good for the organizers and vendors.

Edited May 21, 2012 by JennyD

[KungFuPanda]

You go for the bargains but don't bother with the science section. :D I'm Catholic and that's how I handled the last convention I attended.

 

Of course, you could live somewhere where secular homeschoolers have enough of a presence to generate a strictly academic convention and dodge the whole issue. When I started HSing, people made a point of going to a convention every year. I don't know anyone who still goes years into homeschooling. Materials and information are too easy to get online.

[AdventureMoms]

I'm headed to my first convention in a few weeks, so I can't give specific convention experience, but I've been an atheist for a very long time now, and have found myself in "prayer" situations many, many times. I usually just sit quietly and politely. I has never been a problem. I imagine I'll do the same thing if it happens at the (Christian) convention I'm attending. If speakers start saying stuff that is actually offensive to me, or if it becomes clear that a workshop is just too religious to be useful to me, I have no problem walking out.

[ktgrok]

Sigh, I AM christian, but not the kind of Christian that you see at conventions. I find it annoying, and sometimes aggravating, but just move along and vent on the way home. DH is threatening to wear obnoxious pro evolution tshirts the whole time we are there, but hopefully he won't. My big worry this year is my father is coming too, and will NOT be pleased by all the creation science stuff. I'm hoping it won't start some kind of family issue.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

You go for the bargains but don't bother with the science section. :D I'm Catholic and that's how I handled the last convention I attended.

 

Of course, you could live somewhere where secular homeschoolers have enough of a presence to generate a strictly academic convention and dodge the whole issue. When I started HSing, people made a point of going to a convention every year. I don't know anyone who still goes years into homeschooling. Materials and information are too easy to get online.

 

And where might that be? :lurk5:

[AdventureMoms]

DH is threatening to wear obnoxious pro evolution tshirts the whole time we are there, but hopefully he won't.

 

The convention I'm going to is during Pride weekend for us. DW informed me that I should wear my rainbow-tye dye-two moms shirt since I'll be missing the actual pride parade. I don't think I will, but it is an amusing thought.

[frugalmama]

You go for the bargains but don't bother with the science section. :D I'm Catholic and that's how I handled the last convention I attended.

 

Of course, you could live somewhere where secular homeschoolers have enough of a presence to generate a strictly academic convention and dodge the whole issue. When I started HSing, people made a point of going to a convention every year. I don't know anyone who still goes years into homeschooling. Materials and information are too easy to get online.

 

They actually did a mostly secular one here about 3 years ago, but the group that did it has kind of disappeared since then. I really wish they would bring it back - I enjoyed that convention far more than this one, even though they had way less vendors and it was only 1 day vs. two days.

 

 

This is our 3rd year homeschooling, and I'm a second generation homeschooler. I find conventions let me recharge - I don't do much with the local homeschool groups here as it isn't convenient for a number of reasons, so this is my annual chance to talk to other HS moms and ask questions.

 

As for getting materials online - I buy 90% online. But anything I'm in doubt on it if will work for us I end up having to flip through every page and count how many places are objectionable - if I get to 10 or more then it's out unless I can't find another option. It's hard to do that online.

[Crimson Wife]

There is a secular convention here, but it's hardly academically-oriented. It's got a major "unschooling" tone, to the point where I've never felt the speakers were worth the hefty registration fee.

[Paintedlady]

Sigh, I AM christian, but not the kind of Christian that you see at conventions. I find it annoying, and sometimes aggravating, but just move along and vent on the way home. DH is threatening to wear obnoxious pro evolution tshirts the whole time we are there, but hopefully he won't. My big worry this year is my father is coming too, and will NOT be pleased by all the creation science stuff. I'm hoping it won't start some kind of family issue.

 

You're annoyed, as a Christian, that there are Christians, at a Christian convention, who choose to believe the Bible and not the fallible word of men? Exactly what are you hoping to find at a Christian convention? :confused:

 

And I hope your dh would not be so crass as to go into a Christian convention and purposely, with malice, offend both the vendors and attendees. That seems immature at best.

[catz]

Personally our best convention locally is secular. It does have a session or 2 particular to unschooling and may have a Christian bent here and there depending on the session, but is generally academic and has been good info when I have attended. I doubt I would attend a religious homeschool convention, unless there was a particular session or info I was looking for.

 

I am UU.

[Parker Martin]

I'm a Christian, but I once saw a pretty hardcore militant sort of religious talk at a homeschool convention. I wasn't offended, it was just the speaker's opinion, a little crazy sue, but crazy opinions are hardly uncommon. He was on a tirade. I was all :lurk5: watching him :cursing::cursing::cursing:. I'd never heard anyone talk like that before. I was texting my husband with updates in real time.

[Truscifi]

The convention I'm going to is during Pride weekend for us. DW informed me that I should wear my rainbow-tye dye-two moms shirt since I'll be missing the actual pride parade. I don't think I will, but it is an amusing thought.

 

If you do, you definitely need to come back here and tell us how it went. :tongue_smilie:

 

I go to the one near us, which is less Christian than many of them, only if there are specific materials I want to put hands on before I buy. I rarely go to any of the lectures at all. Of course, ours typically has a massive vendor hall, so even without the speakers there is plenty to do. And I do get good deals on all my books for the next year - sale prices plus no shipping!

[Joanne]

You're annoyed, as a Christian, that there are Christians, at a Christian convention, who choose to believe the Bible and not the fallible word of men? Exactly what are you hoping to find at a Christian convention? :confused:

 

And I hope your dh would not be so crass as to go into a Christian convention and purposely, with malice, offend both the vendors and attendees. That seems immature at best.

 

The poster you are responding to IS CHRISTIAN. It's the lack of understanding that a LOT of Christians do not look, think, or act like the "Bible believing" type you are referencing.

 

I have been that "different Christian". I can tell you from experience that it is possibly more difficult to be ostensibly the same religion and feel out of place. Jews or Muslim (or a different religion) can understand feeling out of place. But a Christian AT a Christian conference?

 

OP, I don't self identify as Christian anymore, and I haven't been to a homeschool conference since admitting my departure from mainstream Christianity. What I can relate to is avoiding a lot of the speakers. The parenting and discipline and "worldview" stuff was never a match for me. I found, as years went on, that there were fewer and fewer presentations that were of merit for me. (Some of that was also gaining confidence as a homeschooler).

 

I mainly went to the curriculum fair, and learned to "spot" vendors that would work for me - and avoid those that I knew wouldn't.

[CLBMom]

The convention I'm going to is during Pride weekend for us. DW informed me that I should wear my rainbow-tye dye-two moms shirt since I'll be missing the actual pride parade. I don't think I will, but it is an amusing thought.

 

Just had to say I would just love to see this! Hey I might meet up with you and wear my pride shirt too lol

[Jpoy85]

I'm pretty sure I could have worn a gorilla suit and as long as I wasn't directly obstructing the Rainbow Resource checkout nobody would have noticed a thing. :001_smile:

 

I had to LOL at this because its true! The line at RR is pretty darn long and crazy!!! :lol:

[NevadaRabbit]

Why would you need to "handle" anything? You are voluntarily going to an open event where there will be overt Christian stuff happening. So what? Why would this alter the behavior we all should expect from one another?

 

We Christians live in a world that largely goes against our beliefs, all day, every day. How should I "handle" going to the grocery store? It's not Christian. How should I "handle" going to the library? It's not Christian. How should I "handle" the secular curricula I choose for our school? It has non-Christian stuff in it. Every one of us, regardless of creed, is faced every day with stuff that doesn't fit our particular belief system.

 

Why anyone thinks a Christian homeschool convention is an appropriate place to wear deliberately provocative attire in order to mock Christian beliefs is utterly beyond me. Particularly when those same groups loudly and frequently insist that Christians must tolerate *their* beliefs. There are jackwagons of every creed and color; wouldn't it be nice if we all simply treated everyone with kindness and consideration, instead of trying to make a statement just to be heard?

 

Go and enjoy the convention, be discerning in line with the beliefs you hold, and be nice to everyone. Simple.

[KidsHappen]

And where might that be? :lurk5:

 

The big one in FL (FPEA I think) is fairly balanced. It is a huge convention so it has something for everyone.

[Lady Florida.]

The big one in FL (FPEA I think) is fairly balanced. It is a huge convention so it has something for everyone.

 

No it isn't. Not anymore. It is quite overtly Christian. It didn't used to be, but it most certainly is now. They even changed their mission statement a few years ago to make it clear that they are a Christian organization. Everything, including most of the curriculum, is overtly Christian. If you aren't conservative Christian, and YEC for the most part, you will feel out of place.

 

To the OP - I handle it by not going. Of course we're years into our homeschool journey, but even when ds was younger I got most of my information online and by talking to other homeschoolers (both IRL and online).

[Lily_Grace]

Why would you need to "handle" anything? You are voluntarily going to an open event where there will be overt Christian stuff happening. So what? Why would this alter the behavior we all should expect from one another?

 

We Christians live in a world that largely goes against our beliefs, all day, every day. How should I "handle" going to the grocery store? It's not Christian. How should I "handle" going to the library? It's not Christian. How should I "handle" the secular curricula I choose for our school? It has non-Christian stuff in it. Every one of us, regardless of creed, is faced every day with stuff that doesn't fit our particular belief system.

 

Why anyone thinks a Christian homeschool convention is an appropriate place to wear deliberately provocative attire in order to mock Christian beliefs is utterly beyond me. Particularly when those same groups loudly and frequently insist that Christians must tolerate *their* beliefs. There are jackwagons of every creed and color; wouldn't it be nice if we all simply treated everyone with kindness and consideration, instead of trying to make a statement just to be heard?

 

Go and enjoy the convention, be discerning in line with the beliefs you hold, and be nice to everyone. Simple.

 

:iagree:

We are not a Christian household, yet acknowledge that 90% of our local community is. We listen, talk about neutral subjects, and politely do our own thing. The only "Christian" conventions I would avoid are those who seem intent on segregating themselves and defining a narrow set of beliefs for their followers. But to me, that's not Christian. It's just foolishness that I don't want to pay for.

[SailorMom]

I gave up even considering going to a convention within about a year of beginning to homeschool.

Why would I go when 90% of the vendors are selling Christian curriculum, and the conventions are very obviously Christian?

If I did go, I would accept that it was a situation no one forced me into.

As for the t-shirts - evolution is not anti-Christian, and neither is the "two-moms" t-shirt. I know a lot of Christians who have no problems with either of these concepts....

However, I do think it's immature to deliberately try to set yourself apart and be provocative..... but I have to admit.... could be kinda funny :)

[RoughCollie]

And I hope your dh would not be so crass as to go into a Christian convention and purposely, with malice, offend both the vendors and attendees. That seems immature at best.

 

It's not like her DH was planning to attend the convention stark naked! Somehow, as a Christian, I don't think Jesus would be offended by a t-shirt. He had better things to do, and better ways to act.

 

Also, I am not the only Christian I know who thinks God loves gay people, too, and who is fine with evolution as a scientific theory. None of us are offended by Christians who do not believe in evolution, although I have to admit that many of us are appalled by lack of Christian love that surrounds the controversy about gay people.

 

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another" does not mean that some Christians are better than others because of what they believe about creation or other issues that separate us.

 

Insofar as being offended goes, I don't understand that. It is just beyond me that anyone can be offended by a t-shirt about evolution, for example. I'm not offended by t-shirts about creationism, or young earth, or World of Warcraft, or which has a parochial school logo, or which portrays other unimportant controversial topics. As far as creationism/evolution is concerned, what does it matter what anyone believes? It's a done deal. Each of us is either right or wrong, and there is nothing we can do to change it now.

 

Really, I don't care what anyone believes about that stuff, and I honestly do not understand why anyone would be. I don't expect everyone at a Christian convention to be religiously correct or to hide what they believe so that no one is offended, so that no one knows they are not one of the Religiously Correct.

 

I do find it offensive that Christians cannot get along despite differences in their beliefs, and that some Christians are Bible-waving hate-mongers. I don't think that is what Jesus intended by "love one another". I don't recall reading exceptions to that command - nowhere in my Bible does it say to not love people because they believe in evolution, are IRS agents, are gay, are prostitutes, or are Catholic, for instance.

 

I would love to meet one Christian -- it only takes one -- who can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what they believe is absolutely correct in every way. There are all sorts of beliefs that, no matter what each of us thinks, are not The Truth. I won't list the questions I have here, so I won't lead anyone into telling me the answers and thus into believing that they are God. I've met plenty of Super Christians who think they can read the hearts of man (although God said in the Bible that only He can do that) -- this one is a Christian, this one thinks they are saved but they are not. It's sad, and I'm sure it causes Jesus to weep that many of us would rather pretend to be God than to love one another.

Edited May 21, 2012 by RoughCollie

[ktgrok]

You're annoyed, as a Christian, that there are Christians, at a Christian convention, who choose to believe the Bible and not the fallible word of men? Exactly what are you hoping to find at a Christian convention? :confused:

 

And I hope your dh would not be so crass as to go into a Christian convention and purposely, with malice, offend both the vendors and attendees. That seems immature at best.

 

Ok, let us clarify. First, it isn't a "Christian Convention." It is run by the statewide homeschool organization, which is NOT technically Christian. However, they invite almost entirely conservative, fundamentalist, Republican speakers. That annoys me. The entire place acts like they have no idea that you can homeschool and be liberal, or heavens, homeschool, be a Christian, and NOT be Republican. I do NOT attend a homeschool convention keynote address to here the President of my country bashed.

 

Finally, since you seem unaware, it is entirely possible to be be a devoted Christian, as I am, and have a different interpretation of the Creation account. God is bigger than your understanding. I know he is bigger than mine. Which is why I have no issue with people who don't believe in Evolution. I do have a problem with people acting like anyone that would come to this convention would share their views.

 

I do agree that my husband's shirt idea is rooted in immaturity. But really, if anti-evolution ideas are posted ALL OVER THE CONVENTION, I don't see why one t shirt that is pro evolution is out of line, given that it is NOT advertised as a Christian convention, or more specifically, as a fundamentalist convention.

[ktgrok]

The poster you are responding to IS CHRISTIAN. It's the lack of understanding that a LOT of Christians do not look, think, or act like the "Bible believing" type you are referencing.

 

I have been that "different Christian". I can tell you from experience that it is possibly more difficult to be ostensibly the same religion and feel out of place. Jews or Muslim (or a different religion) can understand feeling out of place. But a Christian AT a Christian conference?

 

OP, I don't self identify as Christian anymore, and I haven't been to a homeschool conference since admitting my departure from mainstream Christianity. What I can relate to is avoiding a lot of the speakers. The parenting and discipline and "worldview" stuff was never a match for me. I found, as years went on, that there were fewer and fewer presentations that were of merit for me. (Some of that was also gaining confidence as a homeschooler).

 

I mainly went to the curriculum fair, and learned to "spot" vendors that would work for me - and avoid those that I knew wouldn't.

 

Thanks Joanne, that is it exactly. (and I've been tempted to leave materials from your website at some of the vendor tables. Specifically the one that had large behavior posters, with little pictures of wooden spoons you could hang next to each infraction, to show how many "licks" the kid got with the spoon for each infraction. I honestly almost threw up just walking by.)

[ktgrok]

Why anyone thinks a Christian homeschool convention is an appropriate place to wear deliberately provocative attire in order to mock Christian beliefs is utterly beyond me. Particularly when those same groups loudly and frequently insist that Christians must tolerate *their* beliefs.

 

Not sure how promoting a belief of mine is "mocking" a belief of yours. Why is walking around with a shirt about evolution "mocking", but hanging up poster after poster after poster about how evolution is sending people to hell is NOT mocking my belief?

 

How is a person wearing a shirt that describes her family "mocking" anyone else?

[ktgrok]

The big one in FL (FPEA I think) is fairly balanced. It is a huge convention so it has something for everyone.

 

huh???? That is the one I'm talking about! It isn't balanced at ALL! The keynote address last year bashed the president of our country, and assumed everyone would be in on the "jokes" he told about our government. Almost every speaker is Christian. The booths promote a very strict version of fundamentalist, republican outlook. I dare you to find a single book about evolution in that entire hall.

[DawnM]

I would find that offensive and I am a Christian.

 

huh???? That is the one I'm talking about! It isn't balanced at ALL! The keynote address last year bashed the president of our country, and assumed everyone would be in on the "jokes" he told about our government. Almost every speaker is Christian.

[frugalmama]

wow....I had no idea this was such a hot button issue. :confused:

[Juniper]

OP, do Muslims have a similar meditative prayer to what the EO use? Like the Jesus Prayer? I know that when I am in similar situations, I will do what is appropriate for the environment (bow my head), but I will probably be reciting one of the EO prayers. It is a great opportunity for me to focus on what "my" priorities are in coming to the conference, and it helps me distract myself from anything I might find offensive. ;)

[Wabi Sabi]

I'm still a relatively new homeschooler, but so far I haven't felt the need to go to a convention. In this day and age of the internet I'm not even sure if a convention would have much new information to offer me. Pretty much any books or curricula? There are samples online. Video and audio recordings of homeschool related lectures? Also online. General support and a homeschooling community? This board serves that function. New products and programs? Chances are I can find a good, in-depth discussion here or my mailbox is filled with their catalogs anyhow.

 

Frankly, if I ever attended a convention, it would primarily be for the people gawking. You've got to admit, many of us homeschoolers are an odd lot. :tongue_smilie:

[NicAnn]

Why would you need to "handle" anything? You are voluntarily going to an open event where there will be overt Christian stuff happening. So what? Why would this alter the behavior we all should expect from one another?

 

We Christians live in a world that largely goes against our beliefs, all day, every day. How should I "handle" going to the grocery store? It's not Christian. How should I "handle" going to the library? It's not Christian. How should I "handle" the secular curricula I choose for our school? It has non-Christian stuff in it. Every one of us, regardless of creed, is faced every day with stuff that doesn't fit our particular belief system.

 

Why anyone thinks a Christian homeschool convention is an appropriate place to wear deliberately provocative attire in order to mock Christian beliefs is utterly beyond me. Particularly when those same groups loudly and frequently insist that Christians must tolerate *their* beliefs. There are jackwagons of every creed and color; wouldn't it be nice if we all simply treated everyone with kindness and consideration, instead of trying to make a statement just to be heard?

 

Go and enjoy the convention, be discerning in line with the beliefs you hold, and be nice to everyone. Simple.

 

:iagree:

I don't understand what there would be to deal with? Don't buy from vendors you don't agree with. If you can't handle the convention, don't go, or somehow create a secular one.

 

I'm a Christian, but my religion does not conform to nearly anything that "typical" Christians believe. I just choose not to put myself into situations that I find offensive or against my beliefs. Chances are, homeschooling conventions are one of those things.

[Truscifi]

No it isn't. Not anymore. It is quite overtly Christian. It didn't used to be, but it most certainly is now. They even changed their mission statement a few years ago to make it clear that they are a Christian organization. Everything, including most of the curriculum, is overtly Christian. If you aren't conservative Christian, and YEC for the most part, you will feel out of place.

 

To the OP - I handle it by not going. Of course we're years into our homeschool journey, but even when ds was younger I got most of my information online and by talking to other homeschoolers (both IRL and online).

 

:iagree: It used to be more balanced. The first time I went was about 5 years ago, and even then it was changing focus, but there were still speakers who actually addressed academic topics without mentioning religion. Last time I went I couldn't find that. I did still enjoy the vendor hall though. And got some good deals at RR.

[NevadaRabbit]

Not sure how promoting a belief of mine is "mocking" a belief of yours. Why is walking around with a shirt about evolution "mocking", but hanging up poster after poster after poster about how evolution is sending people to hell is NOT mocking my belief?

 

How is a person wearing a shirt that describes her family "mocking" anyone else?

 

Numerous reasons.

 

Promoting your belief is not mocking. To mock means to treat with ridicule, scorn, or derision. It's all in the context and intent.

 

The wording of several posts here was indicative of an intent to provoke others by wearing something deliberately and strikingly out of accord with the general worldview at a convention.

 

"DH is threatening to wear obnoxious pro evolution tshirts the whole time we are there, but hopefully he won't." (Why not? Because you recognize it could be provocative?)

 

"DW informed me that I should wear my rainbow-tye dye-two moms shirt since I'll be missing the actual pride parade. I don't think I will, but it is an amusing thought." and "If you do, you definitely need to come back here and tell us how it went." and "Just had to say I would just love to see this!" (Why would this be *amusing*? Tell us how *what* went? Would just love to see *what*, exactly? Whether the shirt provoked any reactions?)

 

I can't read hearts or secret intentions. I can only read words. These words sure seem to reveal an intention to provoke, through derision or scorn, some kind of reaction from people of a different belief. Doing so is not going to win friends or influence people in a very positive way.

[astrid]

Simple. I don't go. I went to one once, and was so shocked and offended at the Bible-thumping hate mongering that I left before I even walked through the vendors hall. And at the time, I DID self-identify as a Christian. This experience was one of the watershed moments that led to our departure from the faith.

 

That was enough for me--- it only reinforced my committment to seek out and utilize only secular curricula, which has served us quite well.

 

astrid

[Mergath]

I don't go, either. There's a convention a couple of hours away I could attend quite easily, but I know myself well enough to know that if I saw something like the aforementioned poster that promotes child abuse, I'd end up in a screaming match with one of the vendors and find myself removed from the convention.

[stripe]

I've never been to a hs convention, but doubt I would go to one that was hostile to my religious beliefs. I don't think I would find much there for me, as I wouldn't be buying curriculum that promulgated attacks on my religion so I doubt I'd be missing much.

 

I can imagine that one might want to attend a welcoming convention where, although different, there wasn't a hostile atmosphere in the air. Just because most people there are of another faith, doesn't mean the or a point of the convention is to negatively portray others. I might well be comfortable going to such a situation and gain something from the talks and buy from the vendors. As an aside, I've found the Mater Amabilis website and yahoo group helpful despite not being Catholic, because the religious focus is exclusively on Catholicism, and I can work with their material. There are some (very conservative) Orthodox Jews who attend Islamic conventions, btw. Some go to express feelings on certain international events, and others go to shop for clothes. All reports are that it's quite peaceful and interesting, rather than even remotely combative.

[ktgrok]

Numerous reasons.

 

Promoting your belief is not mocking. To mock means to treat with ridicule, scorn, or derision. It's all in the context and intent.

 

The wording of several posts here was indicative of an intent to provoke others by wearing something deliberately and strikingly out of accord with the general worldview at a convention.

 

"DH is threatening to wear obnoxious pro evolution tshirts the whole time we are there, but hopefully he won't." (Why not? Because you recognize it could be provocative?)

.

 

I suppose the reason I don't want him to wear it is I'd rather just get my shopping done without getting into a religious debate with a vendor. That's my real issue. However, I don't feel that his pro evolution shirt, worn at an event that is not designed to promote YEC, or exclude OE beliefs, should be provocative. And maybe if more people did, the organizers would realize that what they are promoting isn't actually the worldview of all, or even most, of the convention goers. it is just the belief of the majority of presenters. If this was expressly a fundamentalist event, say a Baptist convention, than yes, his wearing such a shirt would be mocking and uncalled for.

[sassenach]

I can't comment on the appearance thing but FWIW everyone at this convention was rushing around with their rolling carts and seemed totally preoccupied with their own agenda/shopping lists. I'm pretty sure I could have worn a gorilla suit and as long as I wasn't directly obstructing the Rainbow Resource checkout nobody would have noticed a thing. :001_smile:

 

.

:lol::lol: I don't care who you are, that's funny. And true.

There is a secular convention here, but it's hardly academically-oriented. It's got a major "unschooling" tone, to the point where I've never felt the speakers were worth the hefty registration fee.

:iagree: It's also at a weird time of year.

You're annoyed, as a Christian, that there are Christians, at a Christian convention, who choose to believe the Bible and not the fallible word of men? Exactly what are you hoping to find at a Christian convention? :confused:

 

And I hope your dh would not be so crass as to go into a Christian convention and purposely, with malice, offend both the vendors and attendees. That seems immature at best.

Speaking as a Christian, to a Christian, Christians need to be less easily offended. And more welcoming. And less adversarial.

 

 

We Christians live in a world that largely goes against our beliefs, all day, every day. How should I "handle" going to the grocery store? It's not Christian. How should I "handle" going to the library? It's not Christian. How should I "handle" the secular curricula I choose for our school? It has non-Christian stuff in it. Every one of us, regardless of creed, is faced every day with stuff that doesn't fit our particular belief system.

 

Why anyone thinks a Christian homeschool convention is an appropriate place to wear deliberately provocative attire in order to mock Christian beliefs is utterly beyond me. Particularly when those same groups loudly and frequently insist that Christians must tolerate *their* beliefs. There are jackwagons of every creed and color; wouldn't it be nice if we all simply treated everyone with kindness and consideration, instead of trying to make a statement just to be heard?

 

Go and enjoy the convention, be discerning in line with the beliefs you hold, and be nice to everyone. Simple.

 

What I am hearing is Christians have to put up with the secular world, so when you go to a homeschooling event (hosted by a non-religious, state organization), you should just suck it up the way we have to suck it up. My response to that (if I am indeed understanding you correctly) is that we must hold ourselves (Christians) to a higher level of suffering than we hold others. If we feel uncomfortable navigating the secular world, good! It's not supposed to be comfortable. But when we outnumber those who are not Christians, we should bend over backwards to make them comfortable. If they want to wear a t-shirt (which I assume they own for normal wear, not just to wear to this convention), awesome. I hope they receive nothing but grace and love. I think the point is we Christians should be above provocation. We should be able to see a t-shirt and not be stirred by anything but Christian love. I want to overwhelm non-Christian homeschoolers with our hospitality.

 

What does that look like? I think it means having a variety of seminars, some of which being purely academic. I think it means inviting non-religious vendors and speakers. I think it means clearly marking those sessions that are overtly religious (FPEA used to do this, but it sounds like things have changed). I'm sure there are a lot more ways to be welcoming that I am not thinking of at the moment, but you get the point.

 

I have no need to fight for my rights. I have Jesus, He's all I need. I gladly give my conventions over to serve and love my neighbor.

[Rjmakmom]

It's not like her DH was planning to attend the convention stark naked! Somehow, as a Christian, I don't think Jesus would be offended by a t-shirt. He had better things to do, and better ways to act.

 

Also, I am not the only Christian I know who thinks God loves gay people, too, and who is fine with evolution as a scientific theory. None of us are offended by Christians who do not believe in evolution, although I have to admit that many of us are appalled by lack of Christian love that surrounds the controversy about gay people.

 

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another" does not mean that some Christians are better than others because of what they believe about creation or other issues that separate us.

 

Insofar as being offended goes, I don't understand that. It is just beyond me that anyone can be offended by a t-shirt about evolution, for example. I'm not offended by t-shirts about creationism, or young earth, or World of Warcraft, or which has a parochial school logo, or which portrays other unimportant controversial topics. As far as creationism/evolution is concerned, what does it matter what anyone believes? It's a done deal. Each of us is either right or wrong, and there is nothing we can do to change it now.

 

Really, I don't care what anyone believes about that stuff, and I honestly do not understand why anyone would be. I don't expect everyone at a Christian convention to be religiously correct or to hide what they believe so that no one is offended, so that no one knows they are not one of the Religiously Correct.

 

I do find it offensive that Christians cannot get along despite differences in their beliefs, and that some Christians are Bible-waving hate-mongers. I don't think that is what Jesus intended by "love one another". I don't recall reading exceptions to that command - nowhere in my Bible does it say to not love people because they believe in evolution, are IRS agents, are gay, are prostitutes, or are Catholic, for instance.

 

I would love to meet one Christian -- it only takes one -- who can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what they believe is absolutely correct in every way. There are all sorts of beliefs that, no matter what each of us thinks, are not The Truth. I won't list the questions I have here, so I won't lead anyone into telling me the answers and thus into believing that they are God. I've met plenty of Super Christians who think they can read the hearts of man (although God said in the Bible that only He can do that) -- this one is a Christian, this one thinks they are saved but they are not. It's sad, and I'm sure it causes Jesus to weep that many of us would rather pretend to be God than to love one another.

 

 

 

Perfectly stated!!!

[Greta]

What do you do when they open sessions in prayer?

 

I would recommend that you ask your spiritual adviser (please forgive my ignorance, but I do not know the appropriate term for this role in Islam). The first time that I was going back home to visit my family after I converted to Orthodox Christianity, my priest gave me some very good advice about how to handle a similar situation - when I would be around people who were praying in a way that's very different from what we believe. By following his counsel, I feel (hope!) that I honored God appropriately, in accordance with my faith, without being disrespectful to those I was with.

Edited May 21, 2012 by GretaLynne
grammar error - probably just one of many!

[FairyMom]

Simple. I don't go. I went to one once, and was so shocked and offended at the Bible-thumping hate mongering that I left before I even walked through the vendors hall. And at the time, I DID self-identify as a Christian. This experience was one of the watershed moments that led to our departure from the faith.

 

That was enough for me--- it only reinforced my committment to seek out and utilize only secular curricula, which has served us quite well.

 

astrid

 

:iagree: When I went last spring, I realized this was not who I am, nor who I wanted to be. It was a catalyst in my on-going discovery. Needless to say, I won't be going back.

[NevadaRabbit]

What I am hearing is Christians have to put up with the secular world, so when you go to a homeschooling event (hosted by a non-religious, state organization), you should just suck it up the way we have to suck it up. My response to that (if I am indeed understanding you correctly) is that we must hold ourselves (Christians) to a higher level of suffering than we hold others. If we feel uncomfortable navigating the secular world, good! It's not supposed to be comfortable.

 

Like I said, "wouldn't it be nice if we all simply treated everyone with kindness and consideration, instead of trying to make a statement just to be heard?

 

Go and enjoy the convention, be discerning in line with the beliefs you hold, and be nice to everyone. Simple."

 

I didn't mean that with a "we gotta suck it up and so should you" tone, which I realize is hard to convey. It's more a tone of practicality; this is life. :001_smile:

 

So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Phil 2:1-4

[Jennifer3141]

Simple. I don't go. I went to one once, and was so shocked and offended at the Bible-thumping hate mongering that I left before I even walked through the vendors hall. And at the time, I DID self-identify as a Christian. This experience was one of the watershed moments that led to our departure from the faith.

 

That was enough for me--- it only reinforced my committment to seek out and utilize only secular curricula, which has served us quite well.

 

astrid

 

:iagree:

 

I went once and made this face: :ack2:, hit my one seminar and then left.

[JeneralMom]

I have never been to a HS convention because the only ones I know about here in San Antonio are very religious and we are purely secular.

 

I think we may have moved away from Frugalmama's original question (correct me if I am wrong Frugal). San Antonio is a devoutly Catholic city, but the most vocal homeschoolers are fundamental Christians and the assumption is that if you homeschool you are a fundamental Christian until you set the record straight. I have never been able to join any type of co-op here because of "statement of faith" issues. There are very few people in SATX who wear a hijab (at least that I have seen in the 3 years we have lived here) and when she goes she will be very noticeable in it and will be even more "alien" because she used to be Christian. I have also gotten the feeling here that as a non-Christian, I should not be going to or participating in events that are run by Christians - that they are meant for Christians and non-Christians are not welcome. In terms of prayer, I would either sit quietly or come after the prayer. In terms of being questioned about your non-Christian faith I think it is a matter that is no one's business and you need to come up with a "pass the bean dip" style answer such as "this is what works for myself and my family".

 

Sorry if I totally misinterpreted the original post. I had no idea there was a HS convention here this weekend.

[beaners]

And maybe if more people did, the organizers would realize that what they are promoting isn't actually the worldview of all, or even most, of the convention goers. it is just the belief of the majority of presenters.

 

I know this is a bit of a rabbit trail, but I also wonder if some of the presenters play up certain aspects of their views because of the perceived audience. I am a Christian, but I don't find a speaker telling me to "pray about it" or "tell my child to use their gifts to glorify God" the most helpful use of my time in a more practical workshop. When it sounds a bit stilted and put-on, it's even less helpful. If I'm going to ask a perfect stranger a question about my child, you can bet that any praying that's going to get done has already been done. :tongue_smilie:

[Stellalarella]

I'm still a relatively new homeschooler, but so far I haven't felt the need to go to a convention. In this day and age of the internet I'm not even sure if a convention would have much new information to offer me. Pretty much any books or curricula? There are samples online. Video and audio recordings of homeschool related lectures? Also online. General support and a homeschooling community? This board serves that function. New products and programs? Chances are I can find a good, in-depth discussion here or my mailbox is filled with their catalogs anyhow.

 

:iagree: I honestly don't know why I would need a convention. I would love to see SWB in person, but I can always just purchase the value priced audio lectures she sells on her website.

 

I think my horizons have been expanded much more by the WTM forum than they ever would have been by going to a convention.

 

Maybe patrons would be more civil to one another at a convention than posters are to one another at on the WTM boards, though. But I"m not going to a convention to find out......

[frugalmama]

I have never been to a HS convention because the only ones I know about here in San Antonio are very religious and we are purely secular.

 

I think we may have moved away from Frugalmama's original question (correct me if I am wrong Frugal). San Antonio is a devoutly Catholic city, but the most vocal homeschoolers are fundamental Christians and the assumption is that if you homeschool you are a fundamental Christian until you set the record straight. I have never been able to join any type of co-op here because of "statement of faith" issues. There are very few people in SATX who wear a hijab (at least that I have seen in the 3 years we have lived here) and when she goes she will be very noticeable in it and will be even more "alien" because she used to be Christian. I have also gotten the feeling here that as a non-Christian, I should not be going to or participating in events that are run by Christians - that they are meant for Christians and non-Christians are not welcome. In terms of prayer, I would either sit quietly or come after the prayer. In terms of being questioned about your non-Christian faith I think it is a matter that is no one's business and you need to come up with a "pass the bean dip" style answer such as "this is what works for myself and my family".

 

Sorry if I totally misinterpreted the original post. I had no idea there was a HS convention here this weekend.

 

No - you got it about right. The convention was at FEAST fwiw, and I didn't realize ahead of time it would be quite that religious - I'd only been to the SAHERO one in the past. I'm dealing with the same co-op issues too - there just isn't anything we'd be fully welcomed at.

 

As to those of us in SATX who wear hijab - there actually are quite a few, but none that I know of homeschool.

 

 

I guess I need to work on organizing a purely academic convention here again - the interest appears to be there for it, but I'm not sure I'm up to doing that much work.

[Dinsfamily]

I have never been to a HS convention because the only ones I know about here in San Antonio are very religious and we are purely secular.

 

I think we may have moved away from Frugalmama's original question (correct me if I am wrong Frugal). San Antonio is a devoutly Catholic city, but the most vocal homeschoolers are fundamental Christians and the assumption is that if you homeschool you are a fundamental Christian until you set the record straight. I have never been able to join any type of co-op here because of "statement of faith" issues. There are very few people in SATX who wear a hijab (at least that I have seen in the 3 years we have lived here) and when she goes she will be very noticeable in it and will be even more "alien" because she used to be Christian. I have also gotten the feeling here that as a non-Christian, I should not be going to or participating in events that are run by Christians - that they are meant for Christians and non-Christians are not welcome. In terms of prayer, I would either sit quietly or come after the prayer. In terms of being questioned about your non-Christian faith I think it is a matter that is no one's business and you need to come up with a "pass the bean dip" style answer such as "this is what works for myself and my family".

 

Sorry if I totally misinterpreted the original post. I had no idea there was a HS convention here this weekend.

 

Yes, the convention that Frugal is referring to is run by a Christian coop (FEAST). I'm not a member of the coop but did attend the conference four years ago when I was in the researching stage.

 

I hope you were treated nicely last weekend. Navigating the curriculum fair portion shouldn't have been too difficult. I'm not sure what you were looking at since their offerings have been poor the last few years. Did you see anything interesting?

 

The presentations would have been a different matter. Even when I went, I stuck to the intro to hs'ing and Tx laws presentations. I wasn't going to the conference to learn how to raise my dc, just to learn more about hs'ing. I think there was a good talk about home organization. I guess all you can do in that sense is take what applies and disregard the rest. As far as opening prayer...I like the suggestion of asking a spiritual advisor. Personally, I would just sit quietly or pray a silent prayer to myself. Not being Muslim, I don't know if those options would be acceptable to you.

 

I haven't felt the need to go back to the FEAST conference because it is too small. They do have a used curriculum sale (sale or swap-type thing) that appeals more to me. I'm pretty happy with what I use and not looking to change. However, actually seeing the curriculum that first year made a big difference to me and changed my plans for the better.

[Amy in TX]

OP, I'm a Muslim in Houston, and I attended the SETSHA conference about 5 years ago, wearing hijab. I didn't have any negative experiences and was treated with friendliness everywhere I went.

 

The vast majority of the sessions were Christian-oriented, though, and therefore of no use to me. (That's why I haven't attended since.)

[hsmom2011]

I am Christian, but HS for other reasons. I have never attended convention, and really never plan to. As one pp stated, with the internet, convention is really not necessary. I would also feel uncomfortable dodging the YEC booths, and likely would not want to attend the seminars.