My friend wants to have an abortion. WWYD?

[Word Nerd]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

The woman referenced is not trying to dishonor her marriage; she is trying to SAVE it.

 

I agree that ultimately, it could be a destroyer. But "you" can't be a good friend to this person without realizing that the reason she's considering an abortion is because she is *certain* a pregnancy and baby will destroy it.

 

(I don't agree with the choice to not talk to the husband, but being a friend to her at this moment means understanding her thought process comes from wanting to prevent problems)

 

Beyond the obvious fear and worry, you can't presume to know the woman's true motives either. Yes, she wants to prevent problems, but how do you know she is *certain* that a baby will destroy her marriage? Whether she recognizes it at the moment or not, entirely excluding her husband from this knowledge and cutting off his right to have any say in what happens is treating him poorly.

[scrappyhappymama]

You don't have to be truthful, and most people don't go to the doctor with a partner. In my personal experience, past children or abortions are honored as careful secrets from spouses, if you ask. Too many in the medical profession know a woman could face a beating at home if the wrong info is slipped to family. (An early Ab will not show stretch marks nor make the cervix radically different.)

 

I really don't think this is a good long term solution either. There is a reason medical professionals ask these questions. If she has to have a D&C or D&E to have the abortion, it means her cervix is dilated and the contents of her uterus are extracted or otherwise removed. This is not without risk, and in the future when she shows up at the hospital to give birth to a subsequent baby, it would be very unwise to lie to them about her gynecological history. Her husband may not have accompanied her to her prenatal appointments, but most ARE there for the birth! I think this is actually a perfect example of why deceiving her husband now is a bad idea. It doesn't have to be a complete emotional breakdown in the future that reveals her secret, but something as innocuous as a question on a medical form.

 

 

I agree in most part with Joanne's sentiments that, the OP should approach her friend with the understanding that she does think she is making a loving decision on her husband's behalf. I agree that it would be counterproductive to approach friend with an "I can't believe you'd disrespect your husband like this" attitude. But, on the other hand, a true friend is not limited to a JAWM response in order to be a supportive friend. I think the vehemence of the reactions here with regard to how disrespectful it IS for the friend to make a decision like this without involving her husband who is also an equal genetic contributor to this child in a loving committed relationship can be expressed to her friend in a loving and non-judgmental way. Something along the lines of "I know you are trying to protect your husband from giving up his dream career aspirations, but have you considered how you'd feel if he made such a life-altering decision without discussing it with you?" could lead to a heart-to-heart that could help her to consider some of the other long-term consequences other than the ones she is already envisioning. She is obviously very emotional and distraught, and a loving friend helping her to consider alternative perspectives is not being unsupportive, imo. It might not be a comfortable conversation now, but neither would a future "I never even considered that he would leave me over this."

[kalanamak]

I wasn't thinking her hubby would notice. You implied a doctor wouldn't notice, if, for example, she lied about having been pregnant. I was just curious. Do you have any evidence of that? Your previous post indicated you are a health care provider.

 

Yes, I've done hundreds of pelvics, although probably only about 75 on pregnant people, but many of them early on, before they can get in to see an OB. I've seen a bluish tinge on pregnant cervixes. The soft squishiness of the cervix later pregnancy is not obvious early on.

 

Plus, I approached my pregnancy with a scientific curiosity, and looked, felt, sensed a lot.

 

I can think of a recent case of a woman the OB was concerned might have had a baby previously. (Pt. is too out of it to tell us.) She has "stretch marks and a wonky cervix. Turns out it is a 50 lb wt loss and a previous "cone" due to an abnormal pap. This OB has been in the business for over 20 years, and she was fooled. It is not an exact art. Plus, so what if an OB 10 years down the line takes a look and says Ah HAH, you've had an Ab. One, there is HIPPA, and two, how often do you hear people here discounting was a doctor says. No one these days thinks docs are omnipotent. Wife could look appalled and tell hubby that doc was rude and wrong and she's never going back again. Would sound just like many posters here. ;)

[Greta]

.

Edited May 19, 2012 by GretaLynne

[kalanamak]

I really don't think this is a good long term solution either. There is a reason medical professionals ask these questions.

 

I didn't say lying to the doc is wise, just that it is done. Not to sound horrible, but "they all lie" is told to young doctors. Some people lie on purpose, some through stupidity, some inadvertently. The point of "they all lie" is to NEVER accept anything at face value that you have reason to doubt.

 

When I first started after residency I got all abnormal paps back. One after the other had changes. I called the medical director and told them we had a nut in pathology who COULD NOT clear anything. He had a mental problem, to me. I called twice. (He was new, BTW). Well, within a couple of months he read three frozen section on 2 women's breasts as cancer, and one had one breast removed with a lymph node dissection and the other had BOTH breasts removed. On review-- no cancer. Lawsuits.

 

One of the biggest, hugest, most important jobs of a doc is making sense of a situation, and 20 abnormal paps in a row is not sensible.

 

Labs lie, doctors lie, patients lie, or, labs, docs, and patients give wrong information. You have to be alert to it all.

 

However, lying about a first trimester Ab 6 years down the line is probably not life or death. I can think of many, many, MANY far more dangerous lies of omission on the part of a patient.

[Gingerbread Mama]

I would advise my friend to have an honest conversation with her husband. Tell him about the pregnancy and her concerns. If she absolutely will NOT go through the pregnancy (even if he wants her to) she needs to tell him that, too. He should have a chance to process this information and decide what he can live with. I think, if the only reason she doesn't want this child is because she thinks it will ruin his future, then not giving him an equal say is treating him like he's incompetent to make his own decisions.

 

Also, what if she were to have something go wrong during the procedure? What if she hemorrhaged? What if she developed a serious infection? How would she explain that? Unless she admitted that she'd hidden the truth the first time, she'd be forced to tell a lie.

 

As for his parents - that is his concern. He should be the one to decide whether to do something that might potentially upset his parents. I'd really not give that another thought. I understand her position, but I'd just let that be up to him.

 

FWIW, I'm pro-life and my DH *says* he's pro-choice (I'm not sure if he is or if he just likes the sensationalism of saying he is. Frankly, he's never been in a position to make that choice, so I don't know what he'd ultimately say/do in that position...) and I am fairly certain that he'd be mad at me if I did what she is considering doing. He would be upset that I hadn't discussed it with him beforehand, he'd feel tricked. If they can't support a baby/don't want a baby...could she consider adoption?

Edited May 19, 2012 by Gingerbread Mama

[mommymilkies]

I didn't say lying to the doc is wise, just that it is done. Not to sound horrible, but "they all lie" is told to young doctors. Some people lie on purpose, some through stupidity, some inadvertently. The point of "they all lie" is to NEVER accept anything at face value that you have reason to doubt.

 

When I first started after residency I got all abnormal paps back. One after the other had changes. I called the medical director and told them we had a nut in pathology who COULD NOT clear anything. He had a mental problem, to me. I called twice. (He was new, BTW). Well, within a couple of months he read three frozen section on 2 women's breasts as cancer, and one had one breast removed with a lymph node dissection and the other had BOTH breasts removed. On review-- no cancer. Lawsuits.

 

One of the biggest, hugest, most important jobs of a doc is making sense of a situation, and 20 abnormal paps in a row is not sensible.

 

Labs lie, doctors lie, patients lie, or, labs, docs, and patients give wrong information. You have to be alert to it all.

 

However, lying about a first trimester Ab 6 years down the line is probably not life or death. I can think of many, many, MANY far more dangerous lies of omission on the part of a patient.

 

I used to work in healthcare. I will say I completely agree. Not that it's "ok", but an early termination likely won't matter down the road. Especially since many nowadays are chemical terminations, if everything is ok afterward, a pregnancy years down the road would be very unlikely to be affected and a hcp would most likely not be able to know without asking.

 

I still don't think she should not tell her dh, though. It's one thing to not tell your mom or best friend. But her dh needs to know in case (at the very least) she hemorrhages or gets an infection.

[Joanne]

Beyond the obvious fear and worry, you can't presume to know the woman's true motives either. Yes, she wants to prevent problems, but how do you know she is *certain* that a baby will destroy her marriage? Whether she recognizes it at the moment or not, entirely excluding her husband from this knowledge and cutting off his right to have any say in what happens is treating him poorly.

 

I am not arguing in support of her decision but for her thought process, care, anxiety, and fear.

 

Unless a friend gets THAT, they won't be able to be there for her.

[aggieamy]

 

All 3 choices:

 

1. abort

2. have/keep

3. have/adopt

 

 

YES! There are three choices here, not two. I think a child is always a blessing but honestly sometimes people aren't in a position to parent. Maybe they aren't called to it, maybe they don't have the financial resources to do it, maybe they don't have family support. There could be a million reasons why parenting is not a good decision for this woman and her husband at this time. They could both bless another family so much.

 

People sometimes think that it's teenage girls with deadbeat boyfriends making adoption plans but that is not true. Statistically it's people more your friends ages and backgrounds. If she and her DH decide that they aren't ready to be parents then please have them look at adoption.

 

cant she give the baby up for adoption instead?

 

:confused:

 

Thank you for mentioning this. I wish half the people here on her would have mentioned it. I don't think it's considered as a viable option enough.

[annandatje]

:iagree: However, I think in the end she has the final say. Personally, I would tell him, go ahead if that is what I wanted even if he didn't, and be prepared to accept the consequences, like him finding another wife. Honesty is the best policy, even if you spouse leaves you over it. I think.

 

Tough spot.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[fairfarmhand]

ummm...she may want to consider what if the roles were reversed? What if he decided on his own whether or not to have a baby? What if he went to get a vasectomy w/out her knowledge or damaged c*nd*ms so that she would get pregnant?

 

She'd likely be livid that he did such a thing w.out her input.

 

This is a similar situation. Once you are married, you trust the other person with all of the problems of life.

 

She;s still young, but needs to understand that life will throw you curve balls and interrupt your plans. And MANY MANY times, the plans that just happen and were not what you counted on are much more beautiful than any previous hopes and dreams for the future.

[Teachin'Mine]

YES! There are three choices here, not two. I think a child is always a blessing but honestly sometimes people aren't in a position to parent. Maybe they aren't called to it, maybe they don't have the financial resources to do it, maybe they don't have family support. There could be a million reasons why parenting is not a good decision for this woman and her husband at this time. They could both bless another family so much.

 

People sometimes think that it's teenage girls with deadbeat boyfriends making adoption plans but that is not true. Statistically it's people more your friends ages and backgrounds. If she and her DH decide that they aren't ready to be parents then please have them look at adoption.

 

 

 

Thank you for mentioning this. I wish half the people here on her would have mentioned it. I don't think it's considered as a viable option enough.

 

 

A nice aspect of planning on going through with the birth and putting the baby up for adoption is that if they change their minds and decide to keep the baby, that's still an option. If they abort, they won't ever have that option.

[fairfarmhand]

An abortion does not show at all, physically or emotionally, immediately after?

 

 

I did not have an abortion, rather a d and c because of a miscarriage.

 

At later pregnancies, the ultrasound tech said "hmmm. I see scarring on your uterus. Have you had a d and c for any reason?" So apparently it does show up.

[fairfarmhand]

YES! There are three choices here, not two. I think a child is always a blessing but honestly sometimes people aren't in a position to parent. Maybe they aren't called to it, maybe they don't have the financial resources to do it, maybe they don't have family support. There could be a million reasons why parenting is not a good decision for this woman and her husband at this time. They could both bless another family so much.

 

People sometimes think that it's teenage girls with deadbeat boyfriends making adoption plans but that is not true. Statistically it's people more your friends ages and backgrounds. If she and her DH decide that they aren't ready to be parents then please have them look at adoption.

 

 

 

Thank you for mentioning this. I wish half the people here on her would have mentioned it. I don't think it's considered as a viable option enough.

 

 

My friend recently adopted a newborn baby girl from a married couple in their forties. They just were not up to the task of starting over again with their family. (already had 2 adult children) So yes, this happens.

[Mommyof4ks]

Nm

Edited May 20, 2012 by dwkilburn1

[Laurie4b]

I've read through many but not all of the responses, but one thing I didn't see mentioned:

 

She could never have her dh with her in future medical situations when she is giving her health history. She'd have to have him leave the room when they ask how many pregnancies, how many were carried to term, etc. She could end up with something serious like cancer and have to worry about every appointment with a new provider (onc, surgeon, radiologist,etc.) that dh either would need to wait outside when she might want his support (and when it might be hard on him to be excluded, etc.) That wouldn't be the time to confess to the earlier abortion. Or she would have to lie to her providers.

 

Additionally, there is the whole issue that we are never guaranteed another pregnancy. She's pregnant now, but there is no guarantee that she'll get pregnant later when the timing is more optimal. If having children is important to either of them in the long-run, this decision could impact that permanently.

[Marylou]

Being kind and being truthful do not have to be mutually exclusive.

 

Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. KJV

Edited May 19, 2012 by dmmosher

[Mrs Mungo]

I think she needs to talk to her husband about it. She has a set of decisions to make, and her husband should be part of those decisions in my opinion.

 

It's interesting that if we found one single cell of life on another planet, we'd all be screaming, "There's life on another planet!", but when that single cell grows in a women's uterus, it's considered a choice.

 

You think we are really that stupid? That is not what pro-choice people believe. Life, potential life and *a sentient human life* have very definitions. Otherwise, we would have to make harvesting plants illegal because they are alive. Spiders are extremely complex life forms, but it is still legal to squish one.

 

I think abortion as birth control is a bad, bad idea. But, I know that abortion is a term with a specific medical definition. I know many people who have had to make heartbreaking medical choices that resulted in what the medical community considers an abortion, even when the pregnancy would never have resulted in a live baby. I firmly believe those decisions should remain between a woman and her doctor, therefore, I am pro-choice.

 

I also believe in providing birth control and medical care to low-income women. I believe in providing prenatal care to low income women. I believe in helping low income women with education and jobs. I support lots of initiatives that help prevent abortions.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[Henriettakittycat]

If she decides to have the baby and wants to adopt him/her out we'll take him/her. Not joking.

[raceNzanesmom]

She needs to tell her husband. Period.

[mommymilkies]

I think she needs to talk to her husband about it. She has a set of decisions to make, and her husband should be part of those decisions in my opinion.

 

 

 

You think we are really that stupid? That is not what pro-choice people believe. Life, potential life and *a sentient human life* have very definitions. Otherwise, we would have to make harvesting plants illegal because they are alive. Spiders are extremely complex life forms, but it is still legal to squish one.

 

I think abortion as birth control is a bad, bad idea. But, I know that abortion is a term with a specific medical definition. I know many people who have had to make heartbreaking medical choices that resulted in what the medical community considers an abortion, even when the pregnancy would never have resulted in a live baby. I firmly believe those decisions should remain between a woman and her doctor, therefore, I am pro-choice.

 

I also believe in providing birth control and medical care to low-income women. I believe in providing prenatal care to low income women. I believe in helping low income women with education and jobs. I support lots of initiatives that help prevent abortions.

:iagree:

[FO4UR]

One of best friends just found out that she's pregnant, and she's considering having an abortion without her husband's knowledge. Before I go into the details, let me clarify that she, her DH, and I are all pro-choice. I respect and understand the pro-life position, but since no one involved in this situation is pro-life, asserting that perspective won't be particularly helpful. "It's unwise for her to do this" = helpful, "Consider the human life being ended" = not helpful. I'm just really hoping this doesn't turn into an abortion debate.

 

I'll call them Jane and John. John is pro-choice but he has said in the past that he'd only consider abortion if the fetus was diagnosed with some sort of extreme medical condition. He doesn't see anything wrong with abortion, but it's not something he'd choose for himself, if that makes sense. Jane believes that pregnancy is a very personal thing,that giving birth always carries a certain risk for the mother and that it should be up to the woman whether to end a pregnancy. They have no children. John doesn't know she's pregnant.

 

Finances are the main reason she's considering this. John's business went bust last year, and he's trying to go back to school. (if he gets into this program, he gets a free education and $20k per year from teaching until graduation.) He works part time for his parents. He just received news he didn't get in this fall, so he's going to apply again next year while trying to beef up his application. Jane works for just above minimum wage. They've had to move into the basement of his parents' house to make ends meet. She has no insurance (though she says she's aware that with their low income, she'd be eligible for Medicaid).

 

If they have a baby, John's dreams of grad school will probably never materialize. His parents would be very upset, in part because it would supersede John's career plans and in part because they'd feel as if they have to help support them.

 

Jane told me that she's thinking about having an early term abortion because of this. She knows her husband wouldn't approve, but ultimately it's her decision and she says it would save a lot of heartache.

 

I'm not sure what to say to her. I have reminded her that if she does this, it's a secret she'll have to keep from her DH forever, and that's a huge burden. Deceiving him could be potentially worse for their relationship than an unplanned baby. But I feel for the position she's in. I'd like to hear your thoughts. :bigear:

 

 

I think the bolded sentence sums up what I think.

 

 

I feel for her position, but ...he took part in conceiving and he may want a baby more than grad school. Hearing him say as much (if it's how he feels) might bring sweet relief to the whole situation. She can't predict heartache anymore than she can predict joy.

 

 

He is an adult. He is her husband. I am guessing that he would feel more betrayed by a secret and planned abortion than a shared but unplanned pregnancy.

 

 

What his parents think is not even an issue to bring to the table. The couple can keep the secret together without damaging their marriage.

 

 

:grouphug: to your friend. I would say little, but I would encourage her to give her dh the benefit of the doubt here and tell him...and figure this out as a married couple.

[Dealea86]

:iagree: I honestly am confused as to how she can physically keep this a secret. This isn't a matter of waving a magic wand and having the pregnancy vanish without a trace. Even without complications there will be bleeding and there will be hormones that are out of whack.

 

I'm late to this party, but... :iagree:

 

I've had miscarriages, and from what I understand early abortions feel pretty similar to early miscarriages, as far as what happens to your body. For most women, that means lots of pain and bleeding - heavier and more painful than a usual period. And if she's far enough along that it couldn't be done chemically, then the recovery becomes even more difficult.

 

There are just so many ways her husband could find out. What if he takes out the trash and sees the pregnancy test? What if he checks the credit card statement and sees the abortion clinic listed? Abortions (from what I understand) aren't cheap. Even if the name of the clinic was ambiguous, it's still going to be a substantial sum of money, and he might wonder what it was. What if he's opening all the mail and finds the bill? What if she has complications from the abortion and needs extra medical help? What if she's told other friends besides the OP and someone slips up and tells him?

 

All moral issues about being honest within marriage aside, this is a very foolish secret to attempt to keep.

 

I also agree with others that she's scared and needs support. She is trying to make the best decision for her family and she's either too blinded by fear or or too naive to recognize that she is risking her marriage by not telling her husband. It sounds like the OP is doing her best to be a good friend, and I'm glad for it. Hopefully some of that good advice will sink through and she'll come to her senses.

 

(FTR, I'm very pro-life.)

[NicAnn]

You don't have to be truthful, and most people don't go to the doctor with a partner. In my personal experience, past children or abortions are honored as careful secrets from spouses, if you ask. Too many in the medical profession know a woman could face a beating at home if the wrong info is slipped to family. (An early Ab will not show stretch marks nor make the cervix radically different.)

 

Really? It won't change the cervix much? (Actually curious, not snarky.)

 

If a it's a surgical abortion, anything done other than the pills, then YES there can be cervical issues.

 

If a woman decides to have a baby after a D&C, there can be cervical scaring which will need to be addressed before a vaginal labor can happen. (not all cervical scaring is a problem, but definitely needs to be accessed well before labor.) Scaring can lead to the cervix just not thinning and dilation won't happen.

 

As far as the emotional side, pro choice or not, it comes up with the next pregnancy. I'd say half of my clients have had an abortion in their lives and it nearly always has an impact on their pregnancy.

[Greta]

My initial gut reaction to this situation was that the friend was being very short-sighted and immature by wanting to make a unilateral decision without her husband's knowledge. But the more I've thought about it, the more I've come to think that that might not be what's going on at all.

 

Do you think it's possible that your friend needs help working up the courage to talk to her husband, and what she's actually asking from you is to just look her in the eye and tell her firmly and clearly that she has to tell him, that's what being married is all about, and that the two of them must make a decision together?

 

Many years ago, I made a financial blunder that I attempted to hide from my husband. I confided to a friend at work, and she did just what I said above. She just looked me straight in the eye and said "you have to tell him". Period. I didn't realize until that moment that she had said exactly what I was (on some deep level that I was previously unaware of) hoping to hear. I felt relieved. I knew it was the right thing to do, but I needed help doing it.

 

That was a relatively minor financial blunder in the big picture of things, that was nothing compared to the secret your friend is contemplating keeping. So I have to believe that in her heart, she knows she needs to tell him, she even wants to tell him, and she came to you because she needs someone to reaffirm to her that yes, she MUST talk to him and that though things will be hard, they will get through it *together*.

[Marylou]

 

He is an adult. He is her husband.

 

He is the father of their child.

 

I will gladly coordinate a Hive diaper shower if that is something that would help the new parents in the future.

[LittleIzumi]

Another vote for TELL HIM and talk to him about it first, no matter what, and if they both decide they can't handle a child right now, many other families would love the chance to adopt theirs. :)

[phathui5]

How?

 

If they ever have children, she'll be a gravida 2 on all of her paperwork. I work at a birth center and every pregnancy is counted. It's on the birth certificate form, it's on the medical history forms. She would have to hide it from her caregivers to be able to hide it from her husband.

[Murmer]

Disclaimer: I am pro-adoption, jury still out on my opinion of abortion....

 

I think the best thing you can do as her friend is to find a counselor who is not related to an abortion center or an adoption center (but who is willing to talk about all 3 options) who is willing to talk with your friend about her choices. Preferably someone who has worked with women who have had abortions and has knowledge of the emotions that can happen as the result of an abortion and work with birth mothers who have placed for adoption (preferably open adoption) and has a knowledge of the emotions that can happen as the result of adoption, and worked with women who have parented and the emotions that can happen as result of parenting in the situation she is in.

 

I personally think she really should research open adoption. From my understanding (albeit pro-adoption literature/blog mostly) abortion can have emotional effects regarding the permanent loss of their child for SOME women that hit much later after the abortion and can be very difficult. At least with open adoption the birth family can be involved in the child's life and watch him/her grow without the responsibility of raising the child. This option also allows her the option of parenting if they find that that is a better choice for them than they think....it also buys them 8-9 extra months to make a permanent decision.

[melmichigan]

That is not a secret you keep from your husband.

[besroma]

Nearly every woman, no matter how pro-life, when she gets pregnant, thinks and considers whether this is really what she wants to do. That is part of the psychological task of the first trimester, when you are just getting used to the idea of being pregnant. You can reassure her that the worry and fear that she's feeling is a stage that so many of us pass through-- it doesn't necessarily mean that getting the Ab is the thing she wants to do.

 

I disagree with this statement. While many women might feel this way, I do not believe that "nearly every woman" has these thoughts.....and I definitely *do not* think it is part of "the psychological task of the first trimester"!

[Sevilla]

I disagree with this statement. While many women might feel this way, I do not believe that "nearly every woman" has these thoughts.....and I definitely *do not* think it is part of "the psychological task of the first trimester"!

 

Maybe the PP should have clarified that many women facing an *unwanted pregnancy* do have these thoughts - even if the woman is pro-life and doesn't contemplate abortion, she may very well struggle through feelings of not wanting the pregnancy right now, how it will disrupt her life plans, wrestling with the 'what-ifs'. This process (which is very normal when adjusting to a major surprise like this in your life) can trigger huge feelings of guilt if the pregnancy ends in a miscarriage (I have seen this happen to pro-life women especially).

 

Feelings *are*, they just are, and sometimes we have dark and ugly feelings about things that we have to honestly acknowledge and work through.

[justamouse]

Maybe the PP should have clarified that many women facing an *unwanted pregnancy* do have these thoughts - even if the woman is pro-life and doesn't contemplate abortion, she may very well struggle through feelings of not wanting the pregnancy right now, how it will disrupt her life plans, wrestling with the 'what-ifs'. This process (which is very normal when adjusting to a major surprise like this in your life) can trigger huge feelings of guilt if the pregnancy ends in a miscarriage (I have seen this happen to pro-life women especially).

 

Feelings *are*, they just are, and sometimes we have dark and ugly feelings about things that we have to honestly acknowledge and work through.

:iagree:

 

I'm staunchly pro life, and every pregnancy hit me upside the head like a bat and I had to work through a LOT of emotions.

 

Fathers have rights, too. They do, and I think it's completely unfair and morally wrong that they get no say in the matter (of abortion).

 

My son's girlfriend went an had an abortion over his begging, pleading, and crying for weeks. I never knew up until that time how powerless fathers were in that situation.

 

That is her husband. This is not some little white lie, this is a lie of gigantic proportions.

[Sue G in PA]

I am pro-life. She needs to tell her husband. This is his child, too, and it isn't fair at all to leave him out of this life-changing decision. An abortion isn't without risk. A decision like this could end her chances of having children in the future. One of my best friends from high school chose to have an abortion many, many years ago b/c she "wasn't ready to be a mother". Fast forward to a year ago. She married, got pregnant, was excited to have the child and....miscarried. :( She was devastated. At her age now, she will probably never have a child. Your friend really needs to consider the emotional toll this will take on her. Even women who are "pro-choice" and do not consider the fetus a child suffer emotional ramifications bc of their "choice". Financial situations can change. Sacrifices may need to be made by BOTH of them, but the blessing a child will bring is worth it. I am praying for your friend and for this child....whatever her decision, though I pray she chooses life.

[JeneralMom]

I am pro-choice. I think many people are forgetting she has another choice to make, so I would add a #4 - have the abortion, and tell DH that she only found out she was pg when she had a miscarriage (I have a friend who did just this and for many of the same reasons - grad school, no money, marriage would have broken up). Yes, this compounds a lie with a lie, but my friend felt it was best and in her case, it was. Her DH was extremely relieved about the "miscarriage".

 

Pro-choice means believing that every woman has the choice to carry a child and keep it, give it up for adoption or abort it. I would have chosen abortion when I was younger but not when I was 25 or married.

 

I know people who have had early abortions and later abortions (15.5weeks) and the majority did not regret their decision. One, who later only had boys, wondered if the child she aborted was a girl, but never regretted it. I do know people people who gave their children up for adoption and wished they had chosen abortion because the issue was gone for good rather than showing up 18 years later wanting to know them. I know people who thought giving up their baby for adoption was the greatest thing. I know people who wished they had not decided to have/keep their babies. It is a very complicated issue, but as her friend I would support her, but gently try to counsel her to talk to her husband. He may want the abortion too.

[cdrumm4448]

I do know people people who gave their children up for adoption and wished they had chosen abortion because the issue was gone for good rather than showing up 18 years later wanting to know them.

 

:crying:That is so very, very sad.

[Joanne]

Apparently I am the only voice coming to support the total emotional processing of the pregnant woman.

 

But I feel the need to point out that NO ONE in this thread, including me, is suggesting that keeping this secret - any of it: pregnancy, thought of abortion, decision making - is a good decision.

 

Of course she needs to tell her husband. A friend would also understand the processing behind thinking about not telling him. Statements that you'd remove your friendship because you wouldn't associate with a woman who treated her husband "so horribly" misses the mark entirely on where this pregnant woman is coming from.

[StaceyinLA]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

The woman referenced is not trying to dishonor her marriage; she is trying to SAVE it.

 

I agree that ultimately, it could be a destroyer. But "you" can't be a good friend to this person without realizing that the reason she's considering an abortion is because she is *certain* a pregnancy and baby will destroy it.

 

(I don't agree with the choice to not talk to the husband, but being a friend to her at this moment means understanding her thought process comes from wanting to prevent problems)

 

She has come to the OP for advice, and being a good friend means being honest and making her understand that she will damage her marriage further by doing something like this in secret. She doesn't have to support every thought the woman has in her head to be a friend.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Apparently I am the only voice coming to support the total emotional processing of the pregnant woman.

 

But I feel the need to point out that NO ONE in this thread, including me, is suggesting that keeping this secret - any of it: pregnancy, thought of abortion, decision making - is a good decision.

 

Of course she needs to tell her husband. A friend would also understand the processing behind thinking about not telling him. Statements that you'd remove your friendship because you wouldn't associate with a woman who treated her husband "so horribly" misses the mark entirely on where this pregnant woman is coming from.

 

:001_huh: Well, I kind of thought I did that. Also elegantlion and several others who had personally walked a similar road.

 

There are some breathtaking posts in this thread and the callous ones are pretty loud and distracting, but surely we can all agree that many have tried very hard to express loving concern for this young woman. For herself as a person, not only as a woman who has conceived.

[Joanne]

She has come to the OP for advice, and being a good friend means being honest and making her understand that she will damage her marriage further by doing something like this in secret. She doesn't have to support every thought the woman has in her head to be a friend.

 

I would counsel the friend to share, rely on, depend on and *partner* with her DH.

 

But the visceral and repeated thoughts in this thread, and assumptions about the woman, and the suggestions that she is treating her husband poorly and not worth friendship are anathema to *helping* this woman make a good choice.

[Truscifi]

Apparently I am the only voice coming to support the total emotional processing of the pregnant woman.

 

But I feel the need to point out that NO ONE in this thread, including me, is suggesting that keeping this secret - any of it: pregnancy, thought of abortion, decision making - is a good decision.

 

Of course she needs to tell her husband. A friend would also understand the processing behind thinking about not telling him. Statements that you'd remove your friendship because you wouldn't associate with a woman who treated her husband "so horribly" misses the mark entirely on where this pregnant woman is coming from.

 

:iagree: Not the only one.

[FO4UR]

Apparently I am the only voice coming to support the total emotional processing of the pregnant woman.

 

But I feel the need to point out that NO ONE in this thread, including me, is suggesting that keeping this secret - any of it: pregnancy, thought of abortion, decision making - is a good decision.

 

Of course she needs to tell her husband. A friend would also understand the processing behind thinking about not telling him. Statements that you'd remove your friendship because you wouldn't associate with a woman who treated her husband "so horribly" misses the mark entirely on where this pregnant woman is coming from.

 

 

You aren't the only voice coming to support the total emotional processing of the pregnant woman. In fact, I think many women here have exactly that at heart. I also think it's pretty obvious why she wouldn't want to tell him. I agree with the bolded 100%, but I think that is a minority opinion... and I think OP can sift through that.

 

This woman is afraid, making a knee-jerk decision...and is asking the OP for a nudge in some direction. I think the OP needs to nudge her towards honesty, integrity, and respect for her dh. The woman can decipher what is "honest, integrity, and repect for her dh." I think she knows this, but needs the nudge...a friend to say "Whatever happens, I am here for you. Now, go and do the right thing."

 

 

The understanding thing to do is to help her process a decision that she can be content with after the shock has worn off.

[StaceyinLA]

I am pro-choice. I think many people are forgetting she has another choice to make, so I would add a #4 - have the abortion, and tell DH that she only found out she was pg when she had a miscarriage (I have a friend who did just this and for many of the same reasons - grad school, no money, marriage would have broken up). Yes, this compounds a lie with a lie, but my friend felt it was best and in her case, it was. Her DH was extremely relieved about the "miscarriage".

 

Pro-choice means believing that every woman has the choice to carry a child and keep it, give it up for adoption or abort it. I would have chosen abortion when I was younger but not when I was 25 or married.

 

I know people who have had early abortions and later abortions (15.5weeks) and the majority did not regret their decision. One, who later only had boys, wondered if the child she aborted was a girl, but never regretted it. I do know people people who gave their children up for adoption and wished they had chosen abortion because the issue was gone for good rather than showing up 18 years later wanting to know them. I know people who thought giving up their baby for adoption was the greatest thing. I know people who wished they had not decided to have/keep their babies. It is a very complicated issue, but as her friend I would support her, but gently try to counsel her to talk to her husband. He may want the abortion too.

 

breaks my heart. I realize many people don't believe it's a "life," but how cold are people really that they could feel like this? I cannot even comprehend.

[Joanne]

I know people who have had early abortions and later abortions (15.5weeks) and the majority did not regret their decision. One, who later only had boys, wondered if the child she aborted was a girl, but never regretted it. I do know people people who gave their children up for adoption and wished they had chosen abortion because the issue was gone for good rather than showing up 18 years later wanting to know them. I know people who thought giving up their baby for adoption was the greatest thing. I know people who wished they had not decided to have/keep their babies. It is a very complicated issue, but as her friend I would support her, but gently try to counsel her to talk to her husband. He may want the abortion too.

 

I am not going to suggest that abortion is a better option. But I think adoption is often offered as if it is not complicated, and as if there isn't the potential for serious issues.

 

I have not met anyone who felt that way about adoption. But I have met several women who made the choice to abort and say that they do not regret it, and they did not have any emotional negatives with it.

[Word Nerd]

.

[SKL]

(I have a friend who did just this and for many of the same reasons - grad school, no money, marriage would have broken up). Yes, this compounds a lie with a lie, but my friend felt it was best and in her case, it was. Her DH was extremely relieved about the "miscarriage".

 

 

 

I'm not getting how telling him would break up the marriage. Not if her concerns are truly for his career etc. If he does not want a child, he'll be relieved to know that she doesn't either. If he decides he wants this child to live, how is that endangering the marriage? Unless, of course, she vehemently wants to terminate regardless of his wishes. Or, unless the child has a different bio father than her husband.

 

Aside from the ethics of the matter, it seems to me that making up a story about a miscarriage would still be hard to pull off. Unless the person is a really good liar or the husband is remarkably trusting, it seems too risky to me. And even if she pulled it off, the wall she'd have to build to do so would harm the marriage IMO.

[SKL]

not worth friendship

 

I'm one of the people who said it would be hard to maintain a friendship if she did that without talking to her husband first.

 

I agree that this was not necessary to add as it is not helpful in forming a response to the OP's friend. It was just a final comment to a post containing several points.

 

However, people do choose (and leave) their friends based on all kinds of criteria. Nobody has to be friends with this woman just because she's dealing with a tough situation.

 

I agreed that she is probably blinded by fear at the moment and probably would see things more objectively once she gets past that (hopefully before she makes a permanent decision). I even said that maybe she wants to be talked out of the idea. I never said she is not worthy of being a friend. But if she comes out of this thinking that killing her husband's son/daughter (without his approval) was the right decision, . . . let's just say friendships are dropped for far more trivial reasons every day.

[Heather in Neverland]

I think many people are forgetting she has another choice to make, so I would add a #4 - have the abortion, and tell DH that she only found out she was pg when she had a miscarriage (I have a friend who did just this and for many of the same reasons - grad school, no money, marriage would have broken up). Yes, this compounds a lie with a lie, but my friend felt it was best and in her case, it was. Her DH was extremely relieved about the "miscarriage".

 

 

I find this more reprehensible than hiding an abortion. Doesn't anyone have a conscience any more? I won't even lie to my dh about how much money I spend much less an abortion or "fake a miscarriage."

 

That is disgusting.

 

 

.

[Jpoy85]

I find this more reprehensible than hiding an abortion. Doesn't anyone have a conscience any more? I won't even lie to my dh about how much money I spend much less an abortion or "fake a miscarriage."

 

That is disgusting.

 

 

.

 

:iagree:

 

Ive had a M/C and it is not on the same spectrum as an abortion. **hold on before you start the flames by me saying that**... I didnt have a choice in losing my baby. I would NEVER think its ok for me or anyone else to fake a m/c. I wish mine didnt happen but for someone to say it did when it didnt, that just blows my mind.

[TranquilMind]

Skadi: One of best friends just found out that she's pregnant, and she's considering having an abortion without her husband's knowledge.

 

They have no children. John doesn't know she's pregnant.

 

 

Finances are the main reason she's considering this.

 

This was enough to make me say WHAT?? Seriously?

 

I cannot fathom thinking that it is ok to make this decision independently -and for this reason. And you know what....they might get this ONE shot.

 

It's all well and good to believe that every woman - and man - is endlessly fertile and that babies can just pop out anytime you want one, but that actually isn't true. You don't mention the age, but the older one gets, the more fertility drops, statistically.

 

No one ever has enough money to have a baby when you realize how much kids cost.

 

 

 

If they have a baby, John's dreams of grad school will probably never materialize.

 

People do go to school with kids. Lots of them and some with lots of kids. I knew a guy who got through law school at night while working full time. It took him five years, and he had five kids.

 

 

His parents would be very upset, in part because it would supersede John's career plans and in part because they'd feel as if they have to help support them.

 

Or they might be equally upset - or more upset -to find out a grandchild was aborted because of finances, especially if it is done without the knowledge of the father, their son. And it will come out somewhere. Some doctor form, some ER visit...it will come out.

 

 

I'm not sure what to say to her. I have reminded her that if she does this, it's a secret she'll have to keep from her DH forever, and that's a huge burden. Deceiving him could be potentially worse for their relationship than an unplanned baby.

 

I think this is an understatement. Yes, absolutely.