Why do homeschoolers eat their own?

[joannqn]

Legalise: Alternative Learning Education abbreviated.

 

:iagree:

 

An ALE is a public school program. Students enrolled are legally public school students.

 

So legally, my kids are public school kids. However, if you came into my home any day of the week, you'd never know it. I choose all of their curricula, set my own schedule, and do all of the teaching and grading. The only difference between my family and a homeschooling family is that I write and submit learning goals based on our curricula at the beginning of the year, my kids send our contact person one email per week telling her what they learned that week, and I write a more detailed report once a month providing information on what we covered that month. It's a trade off, but the benefits have been enormous for us.

[catz]

I do have an issue with people who take public school funding, or use virtual public schools funded by public school systems....... then call themselves homeschoolers. You can not be both. I am a pioneer, and will always fight for the right to spend my money, to educate my children, in my own way, with no interference from the public school system.

 

:confused: They are schooling at home right? I had no idea there was a text book definition of homeschooling that had particular requirements to how curriculum is obtained. I have a few friends schooling this way and they are as invested and engaged as any homeschool parent I know. Not my cup of tea to have that much paper work and hoop jumping, but it seems to work for some kids and families.

 

I think I'm more generally annoyed by parents in general being hyper critical of other parents. Like the Life magazine cover on AP. Why was it set up as AP vs. other styles of parenting? Different families are going to operate differently. I'm sick of the notion that we should all be doing the exact same thing. Right for you may be wrong for me, and that's ok! :grouphug:Why all the judgment?

 

:cheers2: Must be happy hour, so I'll throw that in for the ALES. :D

[Geo]

FWIW, I'm not talking about neglect-I'm talking about the I'm better than you are stuff that makes me feel like the unpopular kid in JR high-that isn't even consistent except that I always feel like I'm wearing he wrong clothes or something and that anything I do is wrong.

 

Ultimately, all we can do is ignore the mean spirit (because we can't control it), stand up for what's right/good, and believe that truth will prevail...eventually.

 

At present, I prefer to stick out my tongue at them. :001_tt2: Like Edison's mom.

[Mandylubug]

because we all taste like bacon?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Did someone say bacon?

 

 

We should all be a little more footloose concerning the public school-at-homers, in my very humble opinion.

 

Just like true, authentic, bacon-flavored homeschoolers, the ps-at-homers have been

working so hard

I'm punching my card

Eight hours for what?

 

Please, Louise.

[joannqn]

Can I put your post on my fridge, Tibbie? Gotta love any reference to Footloose.

[Desert Rat]

Ha! This is why I love The Hive so much!

[Bang!Zoom!]

Someone photoshop a piece of bacon on a kilt?

[joannqn]

No, no, no. We need Kevin Bacon in a kilt eating bacon. :D

[LibraryLover]

I do have an issue with people who take public school funding, or use virtual public schools funded by public school systems....... then call themselves homeschoolers. You can not be both. I am a pioneer, and will always fight for the right to spend my money, to educate my children, in my own way, with no interference from the public school system.

 

This is a good example of hsers eating their own.

 

I have no idea why, OP.

 

I have a 7th grader who has never attended preschool, or even MMO, but she currently seems to need more. I am looking for something online for her. Oh no! I am so upset! If we go that route, I will no longer be able to call myself a homeschooler. <<giant eye roll>>

 

I do like to distance myself from such attitudes, I admit. :D:auto:

Edited May 18, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Hope in God]

I've been around homeschooling for a long time ... since 1981. That being said ... it doesn't matter. Period. The most important thing is to -try- to instill a love of learning in your children. (Some kids take to it like a duck to water, others just don't.)

 

I've seen very 'well educated' homeschooled kids in their 20's not know what they want to do in life, and life is passing them by. (How mature is that?)

 

I've seen 'neglected' homeschooled kids in their 20's, married with kids and their own successful businesses.

 

Obviously, the curriculum or methodologies used are not what make our kids mature, successful adults. There's a whole lot more to it than that. As long as a child has 1- the 'want to' and 2- the basic ability, they can find and learn anything they want, especially in this day and age.

 

:hurray:

 

Why eat eachother up when there is such a long line already.:lol:

 

A silly story:

 

When I first started homeschooling I thought that the only good math curriculum in the whole world was Math-U-See and that if anyone wasn't using it they were missing out. Well, for some reason my oldest got waayy behind in Math (mostly because she hated it). I wasn't sure what to do so I talked to the MUS rep who told me that MUS was the only good curriculum out there and that any child using another Math curriculum would never understand Math. I wasn't palnning on switching but because she really rubbed me the wrong way I switched- to TT *gasp* (said I would NEVER do that!).. Well it was the best thing I ever did!

 

I know that my story is a bit silly but, really, unschooler, classical schooler- whatever kind of schooler, the outcomes are sometimes not predictable. Choose the schooling curriculum that resonates with your child and choose the schooling method that nutures your child. They are all unique.

 

I just love this youtube video and usually send it out on our homeschool email tree once a year:

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Can I put your post on my fridge, Tibbie?

 

:smilielol5:

[Happy2BaMom]

Why do hsers eat their own?

 

In a word, superiority (or a desire to be)..."Well, I am a better hser because I don't (or do) fill in the blank, and YOU, well, you are not as good of a hser because you do (or don't) fill in the blank."

 

The sense of superiority can be nauseating.....

 

Moving right along, however....

 

not bad for 53 years old (and yes, that's Mr. Bacon)

 

[catz]

Ah ... Bacon. :D

[LibraryLover]

:hurray:

 

I just love this youtube video and usually send it out on our homeschool email tree once a year:

 

 

 

While I get what the vid is trying to say, it does not resonate for me. It's saying a kangaroo cannot be taught to read...or something. Which is, of course, true.

 

Many humans do have certain talents that need to cherished and nurtured. Yes! We are multi-dimensional, and sometimes it takes us some time to find our gifts. Sadly and true, sometimes those gifts are ignored or dismissed. (This is why I think sports are so popular. Human bodies/brains are evolutionally honed for speed and survival, more than they are prepped for reading and writing.)

 

Humans shouldn't have to sit on an iceberg for years waiting to use their interests and skills. That does upset me; many young students have the capacity for more if given the chance. We are not limited by our hooves or tails.

Edited May 18, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Miss Marple]

I think homeschoolers who are careful to provide instruction in the 3R's and give their children enough tools to understand and learn from the world around them should be both supported and left alone, whether anyone else likes their methods or not.

 

I think homeschoolers who deny access to instruction in the 3R's and basic skills should be helped. I think if they refuse help and insist on keeping their children both isolated and ignorant, they should not be surprised when other homeschoolers (or anyone else) are less than impressed.

 

:iagree:

Most people who are unfamiliar with homeschooling have no idea that there are different methodologies. So when they see what we would term "educational neglect" they assume that's how all homeschoolers do it. I don't want others to assume I share the same boat as those who claim to homeschool but don't educate. If we don't police our own, others will do it for us and we will all be subject to the fallout the non-educating homeschooler causes.

[Shellydon]

:iagree:

 

An ALE is a public school program. Students enrolled are legally public school students.

 

So legally, my kids are public school kids. However, if you came into my home any day of the week, you'd never know it. I choose all of their curricula, set my own schedule, and do all of the teaching and grading. The only difference between my family and a homeschooling family is that I write and submit learning goals based on our curricula at the beginning of the year, my kids send our contact person one email per week telling her what they learned that week, and I write a more detailed report once a month providing information on what we covered that month. It's a trade off, but the benefits have been enormous for us.

 

So what exactly is the point of the program? If you pick everything and do everything, why does the public school have anything to do with your life? I am confused and would love to understand this.

[Lisbeth]

I do have an issue with people who take public school funding, or use virtual public schools funded by public school systems....... then call themselves homeschoolers. You can not be both. I am a pioneer, and will always fight for the right to spend my money, to educate my children, in my own way, with no interference from the public school system.

 

I agree. They are actually doing the movement harm by giving public schools power in homeschooling. It is also sort of like daycare people calling daycare preschool. Now if you use a real preschool, people assue my uedsayecare. Ick. I would hate for homeschooling to come to mean public school via home computer.

[joannqn]

So what exactly is the point of the program? If you pick everything and do everything, why does the public school have anything to do with your life? I am confused and would love to understand this.

 

The program we've been involved in provides up to $1200 per student per year to use towards the student's education. That money can be used to order curriculum, supplies (ie. art and science materials), and classes. Between my two children, we are able to get all of our curricula, quality art supplies, everything we need for science labs, and most of my son's taekwondo classes covered. One year, we had less curricula and supply needs so they got really good swimming instruction for PE for 9 months. I can't afford any of that so I put up with the hoops* in order to give my kids a better education.

 

* The hoops are writing a student learning plan for each student, submitting order forms to get curricula and supplies ordered rather than ordering them myself, my children emailing their teacher each week, writing a monthly review of what we've covered, and annual testing. Homeschooler have to test annually in this state so having the school pay for that testing is also a benefit. And we can opt out of the state's testing and go with another option.

[Spy Car]

So what exactly is the point of the program? If you pick everything and do everything, why does the public school have anything to do with your life? I am confused and would love to understand this.

 

What's hard to understand? Those in programs like ALES get financial support for purchases of curriculum— which is not unreasonable since they are still saving the State vs the cost of enrolling their children in public school—and in return there is some accountability and oversight.

 

Bill

[StartingOver]

The program we've been involved in provides up to $1200 per student per year to use towards the student's education. That money can be used to order curriculum, supplies (ie. art and science materials), and classes. Between my two children, we are able to get all of our curricula, quality art supplies, everything we need for science labs, and most of my son's taekwondo classes covered. One year, we had less curricula and supply needs so they got really good swimming instruction for PE for 9 months. I can't afford any of that so I put up with the hoops* in order to give my kids a better education.

 

* The hoops are writing a student learning plan for each student, submitting order forms to get curricula and supplies ordered rather than ordering them myself, my children emailing their teacher each week, writing a monthly review of what we've covered, and annual testing. Homeschooler have to test annually in this state so having the school pay for that testing is also a benefit. And we can opt out of the state's testing and go with another option.

 

Those hoops endanger us all. I know you don't see it, and that is ok. But some of us have lived it. And we will continue to fight, for the right to teach our own in true freedom.

[joannqn]

I agree. They are actually doing the movement harm by giving public schools power in homeschooling. It is also sort of like daycare people calling daycare preschool. Now if you use a real preschool, people assue my uedsayecare. Ick. I would hate for homeschooling to come to mean public school via home computer.

 

That's not what is happening in this state. Our legislature is in the process of forcing the programs out of existence through changes in the laws governing ALEs. Changes in ALE law resulted in 3,000 ALE students leaving for the coming school year and one school district closing their ALE completely. It's exactly the opposite of what so many homeschoolers fear.

 

The state see some of the programs as paying parents to homeschool. They don't want to do that. They are forcing us out of the system not into it.

[Spy Car]

Those hoops endanger us all. I know you don't see it, and that is ok. But some of us have lived it. And we will continue to fight, for the right to teach our own in true freedom.

 

I think the actions and attitudes of fanatics do a lot more damage to the impression of the homeschooling movement in the general public than do parents who are involved in programs like ALES.

 

Bill

[Hope in God]

I think the actions and attitudes of fanatics do a lot more damage to the impression of the homeschooling movement in the general public than do parents who are involved in programs like ALES.

 

Bill

 

We have the same sort of thing in BC and every year I evaluate wether I want to go registered (off the grid) or enrolled (ALE type program). I usually choose the enrolled option because I find that it is best for my children- not for the money, but for the accountability.

 

I chafe at enrollment every year and I really dislike reporting but I NEED it. I am not naturally organized (and that is not to say that I haven't tried to be... repeatedly).

 

There are some that are militant about the evils of enrollment. I have heard it and attended the HSLDA meetings but in the end I need to choose what is best for my family.

 

Let's support those who do choose to educate their children at home not group and colour sort them in order to discriminate. Please?

[thefragile7393]

I'm more interested in preserving the right for a parent to choose whatever schooling is best for their family, and if that means virtual public school then so be it. Be happy that we live in a society where we can actually choose whatever option we want!

[Rosy]

Clink! :cheers2:

 

Yes, in my experience the fangs come out over ALEs more than any other homeschooling issue. It does make me sad.

 

Those hoops endanger us all. I know you don't see it, and that is ok. But some of us have lived it. And we will continue to fight, for the right to teach our own in true freedom.

 

Wow, thanks for providing an example of the OP's original point. :tongue_smilie:

 

I respectfully disagree and resent the patronizing tone here, and I believe that as long as public schools exist, we should encourage as many different public school options as possible, as long as the right to independently homeschool is not compromised (which it hasn't been in WA after close to 2 decades of ALEs). The traditional model has failed many students, and providing as many alternatives as possible (vouchers, charter schools, ALEs, k12/Calvert-type programs, etc) allows families who can't independently homeschool a chance at a decent education.

 

To answer the OPs original question, I think the infighting comes when people are fearful of losing what they have. I'm sure we all appreciate the right we have to educate our kids at home, but most of the bickering and hand-wringing over different educational methods comes when people think that "those homeschoolers" are putting our rights at risk.

[mamakim]

Those hoops endanger us all. I know you don't see it, and that is ok. But some of us have lived it. And we will continue to fight, for the right to teach our own in true freedom.

 

Please.

 

The country has changed since you started 25 years ago or I started 20 years ago. Profoundly. The fight that you speak of is just . . . over. The tiny little tussles over isolated jurisdictions just can't be compared to what happened in the early days when there were few homeschoolers. I, too, had my eldest coached in what to reply when asked "why aren't you in school?", didn't go out from 7 am to 3:30 pm, and had "What to do when the social worker knocks at the door" taped to my fridge. It was a totally different time! The hoops that some choose to jump through today in the more creative alternative learning programs endanger no freedoms.

 

A few years back our family started using the same ALE as JoAnnqn is speaking of. We'd been homeschooling for 15 years at that point. My homeschooling did not change at all in curriculum choices or teaching style or anything else. There is an advising teacher at the other end of email who does the weekly "great work!" when my dc relate something they've learned. I more mindfully think and plan and write out learning goals at the beginning of each year. And once a month I gather my children's work up, look it over, and consider how I think they're doing. Oh - and I also have $1200 a child to use for this. The change that has made in our homeschooling is noticeable. We're a tiny-budget family.

 

The argument I've heard is, "Well, if some homeschoolers let the state look at their children's scores and have interaction with them like that, then the state will make us ALL do it! Then they'll have oversight over us all!" However, as Joannqn pointed out, this is not what happens in the real world. In the real world the educational establishment is threatened by creativity and good results happening with taxpayer money going to parents educating at home. The state edu establishment is desperate for these programs to just. go. away.

 

The particular program we belong to has, in fact, been gutted this spring by new regulations passed in response to an alliance of the teachers unions and fear-mongering homeschool organizations desperate to hold onto their power base. The creative, flexible program will change enough next year because of this pressure that homeschoolers are leaving in droves. There are still other similar programs in our state, but it is likely a matter of time before this unholy alliance guts them as well.

 

A primo example of eating your own :angry:.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Mama Kim, there is also the reverse issue that some of the folks who left traditional PS situations due to inabillty to provide instruction via IEP's, are going to fight for their children's IEP's via lawsuit avenues in the coming years.

 

Here's a clip from an article online: (PPP's are parent partnerships/ALE's)

 

Why won’t the Legislature save money if all PPPs are shut down?

 

PPP families will not flock en masse “back†to traditional home schooling. Certainly, those families who came from traditional home schooling will tend to do this, but the mix of PPP families has changed. In many cases the state will lose money by forcing students who cannot afford to home school independently to generate costly IEPs in the public schools. Without a PPP alternative, some families will end up hiring lawyers to fight for the services their children need, adding yet more unnecessary cost for the state. And, since PPP students are currently funded at only 80-90% of the Basic Education Allocation for mainstream public schools, all PPP students are already being educated at a discount.

 

-------------------------------------------

 

I can't forecast the future for next year for our family. If our situation were to stay stable and we stayed here, I'd choose the independent route. However, I can also see a million reasons why if we were here, and dd was forced to attend generalized PS, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Kids like her don't get IEP fulfillment. It's why we left in the first place.

 

I'd probably fall into the camp of the above illustration and raise Cain if she were in a PS traditional setting.

[kalanamak]

What's hard to understand? Those in programs like ALES get financial support for purchases of curriculum— which is not unreasonable since they are still saving the State vs the cost of enrolling their children in public school—and in return there is some accountability and oversight.

 

S/he just didn't realize money was involved.

[JenC3]

There is so much pressure to do this thing we're doing right and well. Our kids' futures are at stake and I think a bit of over zealousness comes in and makes us want to share "everything" we know with other homeschooling moms. I used to be a little this way in the beginning, now I don't say as much, especially to friends. But it was never in an attacking way, just a bit of insecurity and a bit of "See I am qualified to do this!"

[Sebastian (a lady)]

FWIW, I'm not talking about neglect-I'm talking about the I'm better than you are stuff that makes me feel like the unpopular kid in JR high-that isn't even consistent except that I always feel like I'm wearing he wrong clothes or something and that anything I do is wrong.

 

I don't think this is unique to homeschooling.

 

Rather, I think that when we (people) have spent time to make an important decision, they tend to see the choices made by others as a possible implied criticism.

 

One of the more important responsibilities we have is to protect, educate and raise our children. So choices around parenting can get especially loaded with baggage.

 

Feeding schedules, bottle vs breast, strollers vs slings, cartoons vs documentaries, preschool or stay at home, etc.

 

I've been in settings where almost everyone we were around used a private or selective school. The parents sometimes got quite defensive/assertive about their choices. To the point that they would warn people about the other schools. Or if they were upset, try to get people not to choose the school they were using.

 

Where I do get concerned with fellow homeschoolers is when their current path doesn't seem at all likely to get them to their stated goals. An example might be a set of college educated parents who intend for their kids to attend the same select school that they attended, but who rarely make educational activities a priority in their home. To me, this is a little like saying that you really want to buy a house in two years while having spending habits that will probably keep that out of reach financially.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

As others have said...what you do in your homeschool effects the homeschool community. I have personally witnessed very poor homeschooling methods that border on neglect and when those children entered the public school system an example of why homeschool does not work is given to the powers that be. With that said, I think a "my way IS the right way" some feel the need to express in a forceful way and then get insulting if you don't follow their advice is sad. I do find homeschoolers, for the most, are a passionate lot that feel strongly about what they are doing and how they are doing it because they have spent countless hours wrestling over how they need to school a child that their passion might come across as aggressive.

[Chris in VA]

I guess I'm really asking, does VA? I can't find the info.

I'd love a program with as little oversight as Joannqn's seems to have.

Is there a list of states somewhere?

 

Oh sorry--thought I was making a new thread. Maybe it's ok to ask here?

[littlebug42]

I think the actions and attitudes of fanatics do a lot more damage to the impression of the homeschooling movement in the general public than do parents who are involved in programs like ALES.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

 

If the true interest is freedom to educate children as the parent sees fit, then this should include freedom to choose these new programs if that is what is in the best interest of your family.

[Renee in NC]

As others have said...what you do in your homeschool effects the homeschool community. I have personally witnessed very poor homeschooling methods that border on neglect and when those children entered the public school system an example of why homeschool does not work is given to the powers that be.

 

You get that no matter what, though. When my now 11yo entered ps at 9, I provided test reports that showed his IQ at 66 (62?), severe language delays, and a host of other issues. His teacher asked him within the first couple of days, "Didn't your mother teach you anything?!?!":001_huh: He was held to the standards of the regular classroom, even as I was fighting to keep him out of a self-contained special ed room!

 

Another example: My now 8yo had to be tested into the 1st grade by a K teacher. She reluctantly placed her in 1st grade despite "a reading level that was too low, and her inability to write a paragraph." However, when she actually entered the first grade classroom, she was at the top of her class. Why? Because most of the students were not reading and writing at the same level she was!:tongue_smilie:

 

Homeschoolers returning to ps get held to a higher standard than the school's own students. Some teachers/administrators will find any nitpicky issue they can to prove their opinion that homeschooling is bad. Yet, when their own students have the same issue, an excuse is offered.

 

I keep this in the back of my mind as I prepare them to enter ps again in the fall. Two of them have IEPs that are no longer appropriate due to the enormous progress they have made in the past school year and a half (only 3 months of that was in ps.) However, the likelihood is that teachers and administrators will look down on homeschooling because they are "behind."

[LaxMom]

I don't think this is unique to homeschooling.

 

Rather, I think that when we (people) have spent time to make an important decision, they tend to see the choices made by others as a possible implied criticism.

 

One of the more important responsibilities we have is to protect, educate and raise our children. So choices around parenting can get especially loaded with baggage.

 

Feeding schedules, bottle vs breast, strollers vs slings, cartoons vs documentaries, preschool or stay at home, etc...

In my experience, the people who don't spend time making a decision as to what's right for their family seem to be the ones who take others' decisions as implied criticism. I've had many conversations with people practically tying themselves in knots trying to defend and justify their method (in all things parenting) when they discover/see we've chosen a route different from the "standard". I always find it odd.

 

Holding up the failures of others is not a valid argument to justify our own, especially when we've chosen an alternate approach, though. The failings of public schools have no bearing on our homeschooling. Our success or failure lies solely with me and my husband because we have taken that responsibility on ourselves.

 

If we chose homesteading, refusing to consume anything we did not grow ourselves, and our children were malnourished, it would be complete madness to try to justify continuing the same way because other children, of more conventional families, may also be malnourished.

 

I fail to see why we consider educational choice sacrosanct. Some people make poor decisions for themselves and their children. Outside of extremes, I can't say what would be a guaranteed poor choice, but they're easy enough to spot when the children aren't getting what they need.

[stripe]

What is a home hooker, besides the obvious?

 

I guess the time has come. Homemaker, homeschooler, homehooker. Where was that article about husbands coming first?

 

Anyway I think all groups I've ever seen have this issue of trying to weed out the inauthentic members. From cloth diaperers to natural childbirth to religious groups to whatever. Why is there such a focus on authenticity anyway?

[swellmomma]

You get that no matter what, though. When my now 11yo entered ps at 9, I provided test reports that showed his IQ at 66 (62?), severe language delays, and a host of other issues. His teacher asked him within the first couple of days, "Didn't your mother teach you anything?!?!":001_huh: He was held to the standards of the regular classroom, even as I was fighting to keep him out of a self-contained special ed room!

 

Another example: My now 8yo had to be tested into the 1st grade by a K teacher. She reluctantly placed her in 1st grade despite "a reading level that was too low, and her inability to write a paragraph." However, when she actually entered the first grade classroom, she was at the top of her class. Why? Because most of the students were not reading and writing at the same level she was!:tongue_smilie:

 

Homeschoolers returning to ps get held to a higher standard than the school's own students. Some teachers/administrators will find any nitpicky issue they can to prove their opinion that homeschooling is bad. Yet, when their own students have the same issue, an excuse is offered.

 

I keep this in the back of my mind as I prepare them to enter ps again in the fall. Two of them have IEPs that are no longer appropriate due to the enormous progress they have made in the past school year and a half (only 3 months of that was in ps.) However, the likelihood is that teachers and administrators will look down on homeschooling because they are "behind."

 

 

So true. When I looked into ps last year for ds13 1 school we looked at told me they were putting him into a 4th grade classroom because that was his academic level, and the receptionist added with snark "no one ever teaches properly at home". I was there asking about special ed programs, teachers aide etc. We had all of ds13's testing to show he was spec ed not a student that wasn't taught. They didn't care, they had it in their heads that homeschooling automatically = failure.

 

As for ALE's the way my province is set up all homeschoolers must register and based on how you register you get a certain level of funding. I am changing how we reg next year to increase our funding, which means by gov't labels we will be part time ps'ers not fulltime hsers. I don't care if some homeschoolers think it is a sell out or something. The fact is without that funding to pay for curric, supplies, lessons etc I could not homeschool at all. I see so many people on here struggling to buy even the most basic, cheapest curric out there, trying to do it all for free because they can not afford the math text they want etc. The funding to buy those things is worth the extra hoops. In my case next year in addition to the normal 2 visits per year to check on our homeschool, we will have weekly contact with an overseeing teacher in the subjects we joined, and a 3rd midyear visit. In exchange I will get around $1365 per student next year. I even still get to order my own curric using PO #'s, In fact the board we are going with next year has an agreement with a future shop location in the city to take PO #'s so that I can go in and buy computers for the kids, or a new printer/scanner/copier, or new fax machine etc without paying a cent out of pocket. Good thing too when I don't have 2 nickels to rub together.

 

ALE's are not going to compromise homeschooling imo, in fact they are helping bring more students home and giving families the opportunity to really choose the way they want to educate their kids instead of worrying that they can not afford to get any curric to actually use.

 

There is no purpose in attacking other homeschoolers for the way they educate their kids. As long as they are actually educating them (or at least providing a rich environment in which to learn in the case of unschoolers) then everyone should just butt out, and get off their pedestal kwim

[swimmermom3]

FWIW, I'm not talking about neglect-I'm talking about the I'm better than you are stuff that makes me feel like the unpopular kid in JR high-that isn't even consistent except that I always feel like I'm wearing he wrong clothes or something and that anything I do is wrong.

 

:grouphug: I can understand why you feel this way right now, especially given the tone of some of the posts on this thread.

 

Why do we eat our own? Probably because deep-down this wonderful, yet monstrous thing called "homeschooling" sometimes makes our knees shake, our palms sweet, and our stomachs roil. Fear is probably one of the biggest reasons we turn on our own. We feel threatened when someone questions our methods or our curriculum. We see others' differences as having the potential to take away from our own freedom, and yet often in our own arrogance, we have no problem denying freedom of choice to someone else.

 

OP - I know the "If you don't use TWTM, then why are you here?" and the "You're not a homeschooler if..." posts can rub a person raw if you let them. However, those are the posters' issues, not yours. Yes, cliche, but true. The flip side is that for every one of the cannibalistic homeschoolers, there are five on this board who will talk you down out of the tree when you have no clue what to do, send you unasked for materials that are lifesavers, help you see things in a new light, and give you hope when January seems to have 50 days. Personally, the generosity and compassion that I have experienced on this board far outweigh any negative moments. I hope you have the opportunity to experience that same generosity.

Edited May 18, 2012 by swimmermom3
Unhelpful commentary

[*Michelle*]

When the cannibals are dancing, the last thing you should do is slather yourself with BBQ sauce and lay out in the sun.

 

In other words, if you and your kids are doing well with your choices, why bother inviting outside opinions?

[thefragile7393]

So true. When I looked into ps last year for ds13 1 school we looked at told me they were putting him into a 4th grade classroom because that was his academic level, and the receptionist added with snark "no one ever teaches properly at home". I was there asking about special ed programs, teachers aide etc. We had all of ds13's testing to show he was spec ed not a student that wasn't taught. They didn't care, they had it in their heads that homeschooling automatically = failure.

 

As for ALE's the way my province is set up all homeschoolers must register and based on how you register you get a certain level of funding. I am changing how we reg next year to increase our funding, which means by gov't labels we will be part time ps'ers not fulltime hsers. I don't care if some homeschoolers think it is a sell out or something. The fact is without that funding to pay for curric, supplies, lessons etc I could not homeschool at all. I see so many people on here struggling to buy even the most basic, cheapest curric out there, trying to do it all for free because they can not afford the math text they want etc. The funding to buy those things is worth the extra hoops. In my case next year in addition to the normal 2 visits per year to check on our homeschool, we will have weekly contact with an overseeing teacher in the subjects we joined, and a 3rd midyear visit. In exchange I will get around $1365 per student next year. I even still get to order my own curric using PO #'s, In fact the board we are going with next year has an agreement with a future shop location in the city to take PO #'s so that I can go in and buy computers for the kids, or a new printer/scanner/copier, or new fax machine etc without paying a cent out of pocket. Good thing too when I don't have 2 nickels to rub together.

 

ALE's are not going to compromise homeschooling imo, in fact they are helping bring more students home and giving families the opportunity to really choose the way they want to educate their kids instead of worrying that they can not afford to get any curric to actually use.

 

There is no purpose in attacking other homeschoolers for the way they educate their kids. As long as they are actually educating them (or at least providing a rich environment in which to learn in the case of unschoolers) then everyone should just butt out, and get off their pedestal kwim

So true. I agree with this on so many levels...the day may come when I have to use one of these programs and I'd rather do this then send DS to B&M school. I can still supplement, tweak somewhat, and keep an eye on friends.

[Dmmetler]

When the cannibals are dancing, the last thing you should do is slather yourself with BBQ sauce and lay out in the sun.

 

In other words, if you and your kids are doing well with your choices, why bother inviting outside opinions?

 

 

In this case, it's because I'm a moderator on a local homeschooling board-which means that I can't avoid them.

Edited May 18, 2012 by dmmetler

[Tammyla]

I hear you:bigear:. I've grown to avoid those hs group encounters locally.

 

In this case, it's because I'm a moderator on a local homeschooling board-which means that I can't avoid them.

[webbeccjo]

It matters to the child what approach or methodology you use. If you choose things that are good for your children, I don't care what they are. I do care, as a member of society and as someone who is affected by other homeschooler's decisions, if the approach or methodology is harmful or ends in neglect (and there are some that do). I don't care who pays for it, but I do recognize that whoever pays for it gets a say in what and how things are taught.

 

How in the world would you or any other member of society be negatively affected by someone's educational choice!? And who gets to define whether or not a curriculum or methodology is "good" or if it is "harmful"? Those definitions will vary according to a family's educational paradigm.

 

There's a HUGE difference between educational neglect and having an educational paradigm or approach that some random person in society doesn't approve of or feel is rigorous enough.

 

Even complete, radical unschooling does not equal educational neglect and is not going to affect you!

 

the very reason that many people homeschool is to avoid having someone else tell them what/when/how their child should and shouldn't learn....to have the freedom to let their kids learn in a way that best fits with their family's personal values and definition of whats important educationally.

[amyk]

:grouphug: I can understand why you feel this way right now, especially given the tone of some of the posts on this thread.

 

Why do we eat our own? Probably because deep-down this wonderful, yet monstrous thing called "homeschooling" sometimes makes our knees shake, our palms sweet, and our stomachs roil. Fear is probably one of the biggest reasons we turn on our own. We feel threatened when someone questions our methods or our curriculum. We see others' differences as having the potential to take away from our own freedom, and yet often in our own arrogance, we have no problem denying freedom of choice to someone else.

 

OP - I know the "If you don't use TWTM, then why are you here?" and the "You're not a homeschooler if..." posts can rub a person raw if you let them. However, those are the posters' issues, not yours. Yes, cliche, but true. The flip side is that for every one of the cannibalistic homeschoolers, there are five on this board who will talk you down out of the tree when you have no clue what to do, send you unasked for materials that are lifesavers, help you see things in a new light, and give you hope when January seems to have 50 days. Personally, the generosity and compassion that I have experienced on this board far outweigh any negative moments. I hope you have the opportunity to experience that same generosity.

 

Now if you will excuse me, I need to go shut my fingers in the door about 50 times and chant over and over, "I am not a homeschooler. I am not a homeschooler. I am not a homeschooler." Shhhh! I have one student in a virtual school.:blush::blush::blush: I am not sure why I teach, study, and plan 9-10 hours a day, work all the same chemistry problems as my son, write my own literature and history curricula, go on vacations based on the geology of the area, read hundreds of books, and dissect an earthworm, a clam, a giant squid, and a dog shark on my kitchen counter. It must be for fun since I am not a homeschooler. I have been told I am not by someone who knows.:D Wonder what a "real homeschool" day looks like. Hmmm.

 

Rats! I think I will have to go shut my rebellious lip in the door as well.

 

This is brilliant! I am off to follow swimmermom's example, oh wait, I have to do Phonics Pathways with my 7 yo and Latin with my 10 and 12 yo and Speech Therapy with my 8 yo, and discuss Plato with my 14 and 15 yo...

[Wordfairy]

...but in the end I need to choose what is best for my family.

 

Let's support those who do choose to educate their children at home not group and colour sort them in order to discriminate. Please?

 

Isn't educational choice the reason why most of us homeschool? If the children are thriving, I don't see where attacking them for their methods is very helpful. Each family's needs are different. People should respect that.

 

The more I'm on different forums the more I see that some people need to learn some boundaries...

[3browneyedboys4me]

Oh my word! This thread reminds me of a thread I started earlier this week, " Why are homeschool moms soooo difficult!"

:lol::lol::lol:

 

I have to say that I really don't have a strong opinion about how anyone home schools b/c that is the beauty of homeschooling. Use books. Don't use books. Whatever...they are in charge of their children. I understand the point of neglect. It's there. My sister is a teacher and reminds me all the time of the 'home schooled students' she receives in her classes that are WAY behind b/c their parents weren't really teaching them. They are poor students, awkward in habits and writing. Well, you know what? I am going to have to say that chances are these same kids would be falling through the cracks in public school b/c their parents are just, simply, being neglectful of their school. period.

 

People- lighten up!! There are great options for educating children. Homeschooling is ONE of them. I've home schooled my kids from day 1. The moment I held my son in my arms I told my husband I would home school him. But, I have some amazing nieces and nephews that have been through the public school system and are smart, productive, successful adults. They are great kids! I would never stand in judgment of them or their parents for choosing a different approach to their education.

 

I realize that funded programs scare some home schoolers. They feel like it's 'more accountability' and they don't want that. Then, guess what? Don't use the program! :glare: Home schoolers rights are still theirs. They are still independent of funding, accountability, etc. The lines seem very clear to me. It's just one of many options for education. And, I have NO problem with them calling themselves homeschoolers b/c they are indeed teaching at HOME.

 

There seems to be a lot of criticism among homeschoolers if they choose any road that allows outside resources/help. The attitude of not 'really' homeschooling. It's so silly. I think the opposite. Look at how far we've come that we have so many resources to use today!

Edited May 18, 2012 by 3browneyedboys4me

[Wordfairy]

Why do hsers eat their own?

 

In a word, superiority (or a desire to be)..."Well, I am a better hser because I don't (or do) fill in the blank, and YOU, well, you are not as good of a hser because you do (or don't) fill in the blank."

 

The sense of superiority can be nauseating.....

 

Moving right along, however....

 

not bad for 53 years old (and yes, that's Mr. Bacon)

 

 

:iagree: Seriously, some people have never moved pass the schoolyard mentality. And yes, I have always loved Bacon!

[Happy2BaMom]

Those hoops endanger us all. I know you don't see it, and that is ok. But some of us have lived it. And we will continue to fight, for the right to teach our own in true freedom.

 

Oh, barf.

 

What SPECIFICALLY are you fighting right now? Who is threatening (in reality, not just in your mind) your "right to teach in true freedom"?

Give me one real-life example where an ALE-type program has threatened hsing. I see a lot of chest-pounding, fear-mongering pronouncements about how the boogeyman is lying right around the corner but in two decades of these programs, no threat to at-home homeschooling has ever materialized.

 

I'm in an ALE now, and nearly half of the parents are coming out of the public educational system because the system wasn't working for their child. These parents do not want to go it alone and aren't interested in joining the exclusive nature of religious coops. The ALEs are another alternative for families who need them. When I needed to work last year, this program was a life saver. I know many moms who need these programs to help provide the money for them to keep their children out of the ps system.

 

You either believe that parents should have educational choice, or you don't.

[Abigail4476]

We have to pay for all that curriculum somehow.

 

:lol:

 

I do have an issue with people who take public school funding, or use virtual public schools funded by public school systems....... then call themselves homeschoolers. You can not be both. I am a pioneer, and will always fight for the right to spend my money, to educate my children, in my own way, with no interference from the public school system.

 

Freedom is what we are after, not limited definitions and narrow ideas about the right way to homeschool. I take no issue with anyone's choices in how they school at home as long as their children are being educated. You most certainly can benefit from outside resources and still call yourself a homeschooler. Personally, I don't want to subject myself to school district scrutiny or ps teacher oversight, but that is MY choice. It doesn't mean that people who make different choices aren't allowed to call themselves homeschoolers. :glare:

 

My children all went to private school this past year. Ds9 didn't have enough time to devote to music, so we are going to pull him back out to homeschool--probably until high school. My girls will continue to go to private school until they graduate. Ds9 will be able to go on field trips with the 4th grade class and play sports through the school. He will STILL be homeschooling, even though he has contact with a brick and mortar school. We are still going to call ourselves "homeschoolers" even though our two oldest will be attending private school.

 

My point is: there's no singular definition of homeschooling. When one starts believing that their definition is The Definition, that is when they begin to "eat their own." A measure of humility is required, if we are to be truly free in making educational choices for our children. Embrace the freedom to define and design quality education for your children, and embrace the freedom for others to do the same, albeit in completely different ways.