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It's been one of those days today. :glare: I had a "concerned" stranger vent her homeschooling concerns to me in the library after she asked why my 5 year old wasn't in school. Urgh. I was in a good mood and just smiled and shrugged it off because I know I'll never see this woman again. And if I did I don't care. I'm confident in my decision.

 

Anyway, hearing the latest media hype over Hilary Rosen's comments about stay-at-home mom's not "working" has got me more aggravated.

 

In any event, I'm a stay-at-home mom homeschooling my children and darn proud of it.

 

I feel sorry for the people who think staying-at-home is somehow less important than any other job out there. Their loss.

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Anyway, hearing the latest media hype over Hilary Rosen's comments about stay-at-home mom's not "working" has got me more aggravated.

 

I didn't have the guts to start this thread -- but I SO AGREE WITH YOU. Rosen's implication that stay-at-home-moms aren't "in reality" enough to give opinions on women seriously bothered me.

 

Why can't I have an opinion? Why can't any SAHM have an opinion? Implying that we're all out of touch because we don't get a paycheck is ridiculous.

 

The Womens' Movement was about giving choice to women -- NOT making women feel less-than for staying home.

 

Alley

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I didn't have the guts to start this thread -- but I SO AGREE WITH YOU. Rosen's implication that stay-at-home-moms aren't "in reality" enough to give opinions on women seriously bothered me.

 

Why can't I have an opinion? Why can't any SAHM have an opinion? Implying that we're all out of touch because we don't get a paycheck is ridiculous.

 

The Womens' Movement was about giving choice to women -- NOT making women feel less-than for staying home.

 

Alley

 

Here's an interesting article on the situation...

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I didn't have the guts to start this thread -- but I SO AGREE WITH YOU. Rosen's implication that stay-at-home-moms aren't "in reality" enough to give opinions on women seriously bothered me.

 

Why can't I have an opinion? Why can't any SAHM have an opinion? Implying that we're all out of touch because we don't get a paycheck is ridiculous.

 

The Womens' Movement was about giving choice to women -- NOT making women feel less-than for staying home.

 

Alley

 

According to the Women's Movement, you can make any choice but one: SAHM.

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You should listen to Ann Romney on the subject.

 

Hilary Rosen has been roundly condemned; It's okay. She's just one silly person.

 

:iagree: I am a conservative, and her comment is one that would have angered me a few years ago. It really barely made a blip on my radar. She's clueless, so why should I care? Just one sad little voice who apparently didn't turn her brain-to-mouth filter on that day!!:lol:

 

OP, about your interaction with the library lady: back in my early years of homeschooling, I was always much more rattled than you are by those conversations. The proof is in the pudding, and when people voice those "concerns" anymore, I can easily blow them off, where it was harder when my children were small. My hairdresser has made some pretty snide comments a few different times within the past few years. I have spent enough time with her and care about her, generally get that a lot of people just don't understand this journey, and I like the way she does my hair. :D Time, some failures with her own children, then spending an hour alone doing my teen dd's hair and questioning her about homeschooling and dd's life and choices completely turned the tables!! The next time I saw her, she was humble, kind, complimentary, and even told me that she now wished she had made the choice we made. God is the only one really responsible for the beauty others see in my dd. Years will prove the investment you've made!!

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OP, about your interaction with the library lady: back in my early years of homeschooling, I was always much more rattled than you are by those conversations. The proof is in the pudding, and when people voice those "concerns" anymore, I can easily blow them off, where it was harder when my children were small. My hairdresser has made some pretty snide comments a few different times within the past few years. I have spent enough time with her and care about her, generally get that a lot of people just don't understand this journey, and I like the way she does my hair. :D Time, some failures with her own children, then spending an hour alone doing my teen dd's hair and questioning her about homeschooling and dd's life and choices completely turned the tables!! The next time I saw her, she was humble, kind, complimentary, and even told me that she now wished she had made the choice we made. God is the only one really responsible for the beauty others see in my dd. Years will prove the investment you've made!!

 

Thank you for this.

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Anyway, hearing the latest media hype over Hilary Rosen's comments about stay-at-home mom's not "working" has got me more aggravated.

 

.

 

Today seemed like a good day to finally try making a signature here. :)

I'm going to see if it worked...

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The Womens' Movement was about giving choice to women -- NOT making women feel less-than for staying home.

 

 

 

According to the Women's Movement, you can make any choice but one: SAHM.

 

The original intent was definitely the former. That women's unpaid work should be more valued in society. And that women who didn't want to do unpaid work should have that opportunity (and have pay equal to men for equal work).

 

But now the image of the SAHM has become conservative so liberals like Hilary Rosen, who claim the feminist label, feel threatened by them and attack, destroying the original intent of the women's movement. It's sad.

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stay-at-home mom's not "working"

 

I worked part time when my kids were little. While we needed the money, it was also a huge break for me. Not only did I get paid decently--my other benefits included:

 

-listening to my own choice of radio stations w/out worrying about little ears

 

-going to the bathroom ALONE

 

-and when I needed to, not waiting until I was desperate!

 

-eating my lunch when it was hot!

 

-and not having to cut up anyone else's food or share my own.

 

I was paid very, very well, and I worked far less at my (paying) job than I ever did at home.

 

:D

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I didn't know about any of the Romney/Rosen stuff this morning when I told dh I really wish I didn't have to work b/c I'm too busy with "real" work. I consider myself a feminist and it really boils my blood that my choices are not considered valid.

 

:iagree::iagree:I consider myself a feminist too and I'm a SAHM. I'm also NOT a conservative.

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Today seemed like a good day to finally try making a signature here. :)

I'm going to see if it worked...

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

I've noticed that I get a lot more "street cred" when I mention that I did actually work full-time for years before staying at home. It seems like it's a lot more acceptable to make the choice to SAH once you've "been there" or something. :001_huh: Like now that I've done that working thing I can make an informed, socially acceptable choice. (Working was SO much easier than staying home. Holy moly.)

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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

I've noticed that I get a lot more "street cred" when I mention that I did actually work full-time for years before staying at home. It seems like it's a lot more acceptable to make the choice to SAH once you've "been there" or something. :001_huh: Like now that I've done that working thing I can make an informed, socially acceptable choice. (Working was SO much easier than staying home. Holy moly.)

 

I got sick enough of the attitude towards SAH moms at my dd's ballet school that my favorite line is that I'm hoping to retire to something much easier…like working full time…once the kids are done with school. :D

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:iagree::iagree:I consider myself a feminist too and I'm a SAHM. I'm also NOT a conservative.

 

Me' date=' too. I don't think it's a "liberal" POV that we are not entitled to each make the choices that work best for our particular families. I think it's a self-important jacka$$ POV. That's different. ;)

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

I've noticed that I get a lot more "street cred" when I mention that I did actually work full-time for years before staying at home. It seems like it's a lot more acceptable to make the choice to SAH once you've "been there" or something. :001_huh: Like now that I've done that working thing I can make an informed, socially acceptable choice. (Working was SO much easier than staying home. Holy moly.)

I've found that, too, including on topics of parenting. It's disconcerting. I'm not sure what my former career lent to parenting cred or if people just think I must have been able to gel a thought at some time back there, so I get points for that?

Edited by MyCrazyHouse
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I've noticed that I get a lot more "street cred" when I mention that I did actually work full-time for years before staying at home. It seems like it's a lot more acceptable to make the choice to SAH once you've "been there" or something. :001_huh: Like now that I've done that working thing I can make an informed, socially acceptable choice. (Working was SO much easier than staying home. Holy moly.)

 

So true... Though I'll admit that when I met someone who was a SAHM who hadn't ever really worked, I did kinda go :001_huh:. Then I realized it was because she was a young enough mom to go right from school to motherhood. Practically everyone else I know is older than me or the same age and if I hadn't ever worked then that would have been many years of marriage with me doing... nothing. So I don't know if I have this prejudice now or if it's just so unusual to meet anyone who hasn't worked before having kids.

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The funny thing about what was said about Mrs. Romney....if it was a woman who ran a daycare from her home and had 5 children enrolled in her daycare it would be legit employment....I only have 2 kids at home right now and I don't know how those with a lot of kids do it (You are all my heros!!!!) My sister has 5 kids and she is definately my hero! I would like anyone who knocks SAHMs to walk a day in their shoes (without a nanny, housekeeper, cook, etc just full blown SAHM in all of its glory!!!!!)

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We have seven kids and my husband likes to tell people that "my wife has never worked a day in her life." :lol: Our kids are mostly grown...only two still homeschooling. Back when they were little, and the youngest two not even born, we were friends with one couple who were horrified when we began homeschooling. The husband even told me, "Homeschooling is stupid. They need to be in school. They need to have friends and sleep overs and stuff like that." I just told him, "You're entitled to your opinion."

 

That was almost twenty years ago. Our kids have been involved in TONS of things...church activities, sports (LOTS of sports!), Scouts, music lessons, co-op classes, homeschooling teen group, and YES, lots of sleep overs and play dates. Two of my girls are very outgoing and have more social activities than I did, and I was in school! I think people have this idea of you and your kids huddled around a kitchen table with a stack of books, and closed curtains. The miles racked up on my car tell a completely different story, and more importantly, so do the happy faces of my children.

 

Our oldest is a sister in a religious order (we're Catholic), one son is in the military, one working full time, two in college...and so many people have told me we have wonderful children. It's not because we're supermom and superdad. It's the grace of God and the opportunity to experience the blessings of family in a more intense way through homeschooling. I wouldn't have missed it for anything. (And for the record, I do NOT look down my nose at parents whose kids are in school.)

 

Hang in there!!! Sometimes it takes a few years for the naysayers to come around, and even if they don't, it doesn't matter that much. Hold your children close and teach them well, for in a little while they'll be grown. Then maybe you can get a real job. :lol:

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I got sick enough of the attitude towards SAH moms at my dd's ballet school that my favorite line is that I'm hoping to retire to something much easier…like working full time…once the kids are done with school. :D

 

:lol::lol::lol:

I'll have to use that one next time I get the chance.:D

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The miles racked up on my car tell a completely different story, and more importantly, so do the happy faces of my children.

 

Love this line! So true.

 

It's the grace of God and the opportunity to experience the blessings of family in a more intense way through homeschooling. I wouldn't have missed it for anything. (And for the record, I do NOT look down my nose at parents whose kids are in school.)

 

I feel this way too.

 

Hold your children close and teach them well, for in a little while they'll be grown. Then maybe you can get a real job.

 

I will use the line mentioned before about retiring to a nice full time job after educating my kids.

 

I consider myself a feminist too and I'm a SAHM. I'm also NOT a conservative.

 

:iagree: I know people across the political spectrum who have shared this same sort of view. It's sad. So sad. This view transcends politics.

I'm curious what the view on SAHparenting is in other countries.....

 

I worked part time when my kids were little. While we needed the money' date=' it was also a huge break for me. Not only did I get paid decently--my other benefits included:

 

-listening to my own choice of radio stations w/out worrying about little ears

 

-going to the bathroom ALONE

 

-and when I needed to, not waiting until I was desperate!

 

-eating my lunch when it was hot!

 

-and not having to cut up anyone else's food or share my own.

 

I was paid very, very well, and I worked far less at my (paying) job than I ever did at home.

 

:D[/quote']

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I feel sorry for the kids of people who think staying-at-home is somehow less important than any other job out there.

 

That. Yes. I think I'll steal this for my facebook status.

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When my oldest was 3 or 4, I worked one night a week as a nurse. I had a friend that I paid to watch him the next day so I could sleep. One day my son and I were talking and he said something about the fact that my friend L was "just a mom". I thought he was upset about that and went on to explain that before kid she was a teacher and taught school for a few years. When I got done he said, "I wish you were just a mom." It really taught me a lesson about what kids value. I am so blessed to be able to stay home full time and homeschool my kids.

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I think the comment was along the lines of economics more than anything. Wouldn't it make sense that a SAHM knows more about economics than anyone ? I mean , we are living on one paycheck. Of course her's is a little bigger.:lol: Her comment just proved how clueless people are.

Edited by scooby-do
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It really taught me a lesson about what kids value. I am so blessed to be able to stay home full time and homeschool my kids.

 

:iagree: I have felt very blessed for that too. The last couple of years I've had a part-time job, and we all wish I was "just a mom."

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:iagree:That is it exactly. What a shame for women in general . . . we've come so far and yet we've simply set a new restriction for each other.

 

True. I get very tired of being asking what I do, and when I say I'm a SAHM I get ignored from conversations and treated like someone of sub-standard intelligence. I get this even from other women!

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One wonders how the women's movement found it appropriate to demand the right to vote. After all, most women were SAHMs in those days, and how could they possibly have enough life experience to know how to vote?

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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

I've noticed that I get a lot more "street cred" when I mention that I did actually work full-time for years before staying at home. It seems like it's a lot more acceptable to make the choice to SAH once you've "been there" or something. :001_huh: Like now that I've done that working thing I can make an informed, socially acceptable choice. (Working was SO much easier than staying home. Holy moly.)

 

:iagree::iagree: I never quite put my finger on what you expressed here, but something I have sensed for a long time. Well said!

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Anne Romney does get to truly 'choose' to stay home or not. Lots of women don't. If they want to support their family, they have to work. Many women on this board are working to make ends meet. Many of us just want to work outside the home.

 

And, as a feminist, I have never felt like my decision to stay home and teach my kids has been denigrated by other women. I think SWB has been a vocal feminist role model, showing how a woman can make a great career for herself and still homeschool her kids if she desires.

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Not too many years ago, it was common sense that the best possible family dynamic included a mother in the home raising her own children.

 

I believe women should have the same choices as men have for careers. However, I think that women should seriously reconsider an outside career if they choose to have young children.

 

My mother did day care in our home, and I witnessed first hand the disconnect between many of these kids and their mothers. I am a public school teacher and can say that most of us know that SAHM is the best situation whether our polictics will allow us to admit it or not.

 

I think Jesus' mother stayed home with Him.

 

Look, many of these women feel guilty about NOT staying at home with their children and many WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE JOB FOR A MONTH. I tell my wife that I have no interest taking her job.

 

Some outside mothers balance their family responsibilities well, but I still think it is common sense that their kids would benefit from a Mommy at home.

 

Most mothers in two parent families who claim that the have to work to make ends meet are not being honest. Most of these mothers work to afford the types of luxuries they want and really can't handle raising their own children.

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True. I get very tired of being asking what I do, and when I say I'm a SAHM I get ignored from conversations and treated like someone of sub-standard intelligence. I get this even from other women!

 

Just tell them you are in human resource management specializing in chaos control.

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Hmm...I think *men* should seriously reconsider an outside career if they choose to have young children. I have witnessed first hand the disconnect between many children and their fathers. This isn't healthy whether society will admit this or not. Some outside fathers balance their responsibilities relatively well but it's just common sense that the children would benefit more from having their fathers be more accessible, especially during the teen years. Most fathers in two parent families who claim that they have to work to make ends meet are not being honest. Most of these fathers work to afford the types of luxuries they want and really can't handle raising their own children. Sad.

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Not too many years ago, it was common sense that the best possible family dynamic included a mother in the home raising her own children.

 

I believe women should have the same choices as men have for careers. However, I think that women should seriously reconsider an outside career if they choose to have young children.

 

My mother did day care in our home, and I witnessed first hand the disconnect between many of these kids and their mothers. I am a public school teacher and can say that most of us know that SAHM is the best situation whether our polictics will allow us to admit it or not.

 

I think Jesus' mother stayed home with Him.

 

Look, many of these women feel guilty about NOT staying at home with their children and many WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE JOB FOR A MONTH. I tell my wife that I have no interest taking her job.

 

Some outside mothers balance their family responsibilities well, but I still think it is common sense that their kids would benefit from a Mommy at home.

 

Most mothers in two parent families who claim that the have to work to make ends meet are not being honest. Most of these mothers work to afford the types of luxuries they want and really can't handle raising their own children.

 

:iagree: However, the sad truth is that many many mothers really cannot choose to stay home.

 

Yes, there are a lot of mothers who work to afford luxuries. I know some and they look down at me for "wasting my education and life." But like I said, there are many mothers who do not have a choice. My sister is one of them and it breaks her heart.

 

 

 

 

Hmm...I think *men* should seriously reconsider an outside career if they choose to have young children. I have witnessed first hand the disconnect between many children and their fathers. This isn't healthy whether society will admit this or not. Some outside fathers balance their responsibilities relatively well but it's just common sense that the children would benefit more from having their fathers be more accessible, especially during the teen years. Most fathers in two parent families who claim that they have to work to make ends meet are not being honest. Most of these fathers work to afford the types of luxuries they want and really can't handle raising their own children. Sad.

 

This would only work if women were paid equal to what men are paid. There are women who make more than men, but *overall* that is not the case.

 

Also, young children need their mothers. It's that simple. Do they need fathers? Yes. Yet, those early years are focused around the mother.

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:iagree: However, the sad truth is that many many mothers really cannot choose to stay home.

 

Yes, there are a lot of mothers who work to afford luxuries. I know some and they look down at me for "wasting my education and life." But like I said, there are many mothers who do not have a choice. My sister is one of them and it breaks her heart.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This would only work if women were paid equal to what men are paid. There are women who make more than men, but *overall* that is not the case.

 

Also, young children need their mothers. It's that simple. Do they need fathers? Yes. Yet, those early years are focused around the mother.

 

I agree. I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of suggesting raising children is best accomplished by one person, whether that be mom or dad.:D

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If you *really* want to see how undervalued being a SAHP is, talk to a SAHD.

 

Wolf and I made the decision that he'd quit his dead end job he loathed, and come home to start his own business, and I'd return to health care, which I loved.

 

I worked 3-11 to accomdate both hsing, and his starting his own biz. It worked fantastically for us, up until I was hurt.

 

But you wouldn't *believe* the carp ppl spouted at us! I had other women at work tell me their dh's were too much of a man to let their wife support them, the list goes on.

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No, I certainly did not think that one person should raise the children.

 

Once in one of my low level classes I was looking over the class rosters of students when a young lady in one of the low level classes was standing at my desk. She said something like, "Look Mr. Antey," and pointed out that most of the students in the advanced class roster had parents with the same last names, while most of the students in the low class had parents with different last names.

 

Most people have an intuitive idea of this seeming truism, but it was like an epiphany that day because it was so clearly evident on those class rosters.

 

I think two parent families are the most optimal and that within that dynamic, Mom at home is the most optimal of the most optimal. If my wife earned 250 thousand a year we might reconsider, but I can tell you I have nowhere near the acumen that she does to do the job she is doing in our home taking care of me and our boys.

 

Some moms including single moms, moms with disabled husbands, husbands who are less employable than wives, etc. are limited in their choices and can do a great job of raising their children. I have seen it many times.

Edited by Nick Antey
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I agree that being a SAHM is a valid choice for a woman and should not be belittled.

What the issue actually is, is that an SAHM and wife to a multimillionaire might not be the ideal person to understand the economic issues that middle class women face. Which was supposed to be the point of the argument.

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I have a friend who has been pressuring me to go back to work because "what if your dh leaves you like mine left me?". I find it insulting.

 

On the other hand, when I was a working mom I got heaps of aggressively insulting comments from sahms. "I didn't have children so I could stick them in a warehouse all day" was probably my favorite:). Though I guess I heard that one more when I quit work and was on their "team." I honestly think a lot of young women are insecure and the only way they can get comfortable with their own choices is to invalidate any other choice. Happy working women with attached happy children seem like almost an affront to sahms, and I think a lot of working mothers just need to believe that those of us at home are rotting.

Edited by Danestress
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I agree that being a SAHM is a valid choice for a woman and should not be belittled.

What the issue actually is, is that an SAHM and wife to a multimillionaire might not be the ideal person to understand the economic issues that middle class women face. Which was supposed to be the point of the argument.

 

:iagree:

 

That was what Hannah Rosin was talking about, and that's what her whole quote was about. Just one sentence of a longer quote.

 

And I agree with it. She had a large family, but I am absolutely positive that she had a substantial amount of help. The fact that the family's nannies and lawn care people were illegal immigrants came up during his campaigns here in MA. Man, I wish I had that problem!

 

I don't know if Hannah Rosin has children, but she was not talking about being a SAHM or about being a mother. She was talking about having a job. The issue is that in colloquial English, work has multiple meanings. She was talking about people who need to have a job to survive: something that Ann Romney has never needed to do.

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The Womens' Movement was about giving choice to women -- NOT making women feel less-than for staying home.

It hasn't been about giving women a choice since the late sixties. I came of age in the 70's in a liberal/feminist household, and the message was very much - prove you're as good as/better than a man by brining home a huge paycheck and telling men what to do. (re: p*nis envy). sahm were ridiculed by WOMEN even then.

 

I had a working mother and grandmother - and no WAY was I going to do that to my kids. I hold my kids in high regard and wanted them to grow up knowing they are very important to me.

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I agree that being a SAHM is a valid choice for a woman and should not be belittled.

What the issue actually is, is that an SAHM and wife to a multimillionaire might not be the ideal person to understand the economic issues that middle class women face. Which was supposed to be the point of the argument.

 

I consider that to be insulting too. Furthermore, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who understands the economic issues faced by women in each and every level of the present economy.

 

The point was brought up that women are concerned about the economy (which is frankly a no-brainer, but whatever). The spokesperson wanted to censor this comment on the basis of whom it came from. Mind you, said censorer has also not had the life experience that most American women have had, in case that affects her right to comment.

 

It's just an example of political rhetoric, and I'm glad it was spoken so clumsily, because had it been stated artfully, more people would have taken it to heart.

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I agree that being a SAHM is a valid choice for a woman and should not be belittled.

What the issue actually is, is that an SAHM and wife to a multimillionaire might not be the ideal person to understand the economic issues that middle class women face. Which was supposed to be the point of the argument.

they had their share of basement apartments when they were students. frankly - Ann Romeny was reporting what WOMEN were TELLING her - the women (who aren't millionaires) were concerned about jobs and the economy. are you saying that the women she was talking to on the campaign trail don't have a valid opinion?

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And I wanted to say that I've met Ann Romney and she is an incredibly nice, sweet person. And I have nothing against Mitt Romney, and he did a lot of good things for MA when he was governor. I'm a Democrat, but I would vote for him again over some other Democrats around here.

 

But the issue here was that Mitt was trying to joke about some of the gaffes he's made by saying that his wife is level headed and gives him lots of good advice about the economic issues that middle class people face. But she also has a history of making miss-the-point gaffes about economics: when Romney ran for Senator of MA he was neck and neck with Kennedy for a while until she gave an interview talking about she understood financial struggle because while Mitt was at Harvard Business School, they had to cash in some of his trust fund to continue paying their bills.

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