If you wear perfume to church...

[Parrothead]

I never gave it a second thought until about three years ago when I wondered why this dear lady at our (very small) church always sat way in the back on a bench along the back wall instead of in the pews with everyone else. Then one Sunday the chaplain said something about her fragrance allergy. I thought that was so odd, but I stopped wearing scents to chapel because of her. I didn't think it was a big deal to stop. It's not like I stink if I don't wear it. I don't understand why everyone is so offended by the suggestion. It's like peanut allergy. I'm not going to insist that my child eat his PBJ sandwich in front of another kid whose anaphlaxically allergic. If it's a small thing to change to keep someone else from suffering, then we ought to be compassionate enough to be willing to change a little.

It was not a suggestion.

[Word Nerd]

How would one "directly address the problem". The damage is DONE. Are you going to ask the woman to go home and shower? I don't think so.

 

I wouldn't anything, because...what's the point? It's done.

 

Kind of like this conversation. ;) This has all been covered. And covered again.

 

Most people would be happy to accommodate requests like these if they are kindly and respectfully informed about a problem, but they don't react well to lectures and passive-aggressive behavior.

[Joanne]

Fascinating.

 

I have personally grown increasingly sensitive to scent. It started about a decade ago when I noticed a correlation between perfume (mine) and headaches (definitely mine). It's grown to sensitivity to other strong odors. Including candles, which makes me sad because I love candles.

 

I can still smell coffee without issue, thank goodness!

 

I've even had migraines for the first time due to (I think) increased allergic reactions.

 

But I STILL didn't know that scent was a problem, the public places were going scent free, that people assumed "everyone" knew.

 

So next time, I should ask the offenders to leave the service and wash up? Should I hand out wipes? Unscented soap and warm wash cloths? Just wondering what you think the appropriate "direct" response should be. Should we have just stayed there and sneezed and sniffled through the service, possibly whipped out an inhaler when necessary? I certainly don't want to offend anyone whose scent has polluted my air space, so please let me know what I should have done.

 

Terri

 

I'm sorry you go through so much discomfort. If you want to know the truth, Easter is my least favorite day at church. The noise, parking, cacaphony of color, sound, people. It's ALL too much.

 

 

 

 

But it is. . . news to me. I've known people who just don't like to be around perfume, including my dh, but I never realized it was a life or death problem. Where would I have gotten that information unless someone I knew had that allergy? No one I know does or they have not mentioned it if they do. And I am under 50.

 

 

It is news to me, too.

 

Most churches and performance centers (theatres, concert halls) as well as hospitals I've been to within the last few years have all had signs up in the bathrooms to kindly not use scent when coming. I think this is pretty standard practice to help inform people that a great many people are highly sensitive to the products.

 

I just had a thought though, our church used insense quite a bit during holy week. It's not normally used here. That was probably tough for a lot of people with sensitivities. My children noticed the smell and didn't like it, but they don't have allergies. I guess for these infrequent, special occassions those with allergies would have to be aware and sit at the back, near an open window, or avoid the service. I wish there was a way to accommodate everyone.

 

I will be 46 this weekend. I have lived in major metropolitan areas (Phoenix, Houston) and have NEVER seen this.

 

Even with my own changing body, I didn't know. I am reasonably well-informed about many contemporary issues, including health problems.

 

OP, I think, for me, it's the "no excuse" phrase that seemed a bit.........I don't know. I think when we live with an elevated/not normative situation, we normalize it and fail to understand the percentage of others who don't; who have no clue that the preponderance of scent and scented products is an issue. I know I get that way with my dd's "hidden" disability.

 

Finally, one of my male teen students does not wear deodorant. It's a huge issue for me, comfort wise, and I am going to have to say something to him or the Principal.

[TranquilMind]

A little bit is no big deal for most people (and, truly, if it is then maybe the allergic person needs to do something like a surgical mask). It's the people who practically bathe in it that is the problem. I think perhaps some people don't realize how much perfume they are wearing because they get used to it and just don't smell it themselves anymore.

 

Yes, few seem to be hearing this.

 

This complaint was NOT directed at the normal little-dab-behind-the-ears perfume wearer. This is NOT the problem here. People seem to want to divert off into other issues.

[TranquilMind]

Kind of like this conversation. ;) This has all been covered. And covered again.

 

Most people would be happy to accommodate requests like these if they are kindly and respectfully informed about a problem, but they don't react well to lectures and passive-aggressive behavior.

 

You are one of several who have mentioned that this has been covered. That would mean people are aware of this issue generally. I agree.

 

Obviously, many just don't give a rip. Which is why it keeps coming up over and over, I guess.

 

The "lectures" and annoyance only result after the two thousandth kind request has been pointedly ignored resulting in health consequences, in my experience.

 

I'm confused that some seem to be up in arms about how she presented it, as a rant. People do that here over all kinds of issues. What is the particular problem with her very legitimate issue.

 

To say that you (general you) just don't care if someone DIES or goes to the ER because of how it was presented seems really ridiculously selfish to me. If you know, you are on notice. If it doesn't apply to you, disregard. If it does, don't do it. Unless you just don't care because your right to wear perfume trumps another's right to breathe.

[4everHis]

You should have politely asked an usher for help. That's what they're there for. Then, today, you should call the church office and find out who to speak to about a "scent-free" zone.

 

 

 

:iagree: I had no idea it could be life or death.

 

FWIW, I tend to shut down and tune out when someone yells at me, which is what happened in the OP. Like a PP said, you win more flies with honey.

 

For future reference, if your post had been worded something like: "I'm so frustrated! My kids have scent allergies and we had to move three times at church yesterday because people wore too much perfume. How would you handle this? I don't want to have to move around like this every week!" you would have received a lot of sympathy and suggestions.

 

EXACTLY! Like I tell my kids, "It's not WHAT you said, it's HOW you said it." Makes all the difference in the world.

[gardening momma]

From the board rules

Use Your Inside Voice

Posting a message in all caps is the cyber-equivalent of yelling please don't do it. It's rude. Really.

Not all instances of all caps are yelling. If the entire message is written in all caps, it could be construed as yelling. But sometimes it's used for emphasis. Case in point, the Sticky "Think before you post" has an entire sentence in all caps, but it's not yelling. It's emphasis, like the OP's all caps words in her original post.

[Word Nerd]

You are one of several who have mentioned that this has been covered.

 

 

I meant that question has already been answered in this thread (i.e., how else could the OP have handled the situation).

[sparrow]

You are one of several who have mentioned that this has been covered. That would mean people are aware of this issue generally. I agree.

 

Obviously, many just don't give a rip. Which is why it keeps coming up over and over, I guess.

 

The "lectures" and annoyance only result after the two thousandth kind request has been pointedly ignored resulting in health consequences, in my experience.

 

I'm confused that some seem to be up in arms about how she presented it, as a rant. People do that here over all kinds of issues. What is the particular problem with her very legitimate issue.

 

To say that you (general you) just don't care if someone DIES or goes to the ER because of how it was presented seems really ridiculously selfish to me. If you know, you are on notice. If it doesn't apply to you, disregard. If it does, don't do it. Unless you just don't care because your right to wear perfume trumps another's right to breathe.

 

I don't think people would have had a problem with just venting. It was how she said she behaved and spoke at her church. I'm not a religious person, but I think church is not a place to get in a snit and make a production of moving your family and making sure people know why you're moving. Why is there a problem with quietly finding a place to sit and talking with church leaders today about making a scent-free zone?

[susankenny]

I don't think people would have had a problem with just venting. It was how she said she behaved and spoke at her church. I'm not a religious person, but I think church is not a place to get in a snit and make a production of moving your family and making sure people know why you're moving. Why is there a problem with quietly finding a place to sit and talking with church leaders today about making a scent-free zone?

 

:iagree:Her children definitely learned something that day, just not from the pastor.

 

 

Susan

[eternalknot]

What...she's not allowed to vent about perfume now? I think she was just getting it out and hoping for some empathy. Obviously, there isn't a lot to go around for people who can't tolerate the overwhelming scent some others think they must wear everywhere they go.

 

I missed that in the rulebook.

 

I agree that her first post was worded as a vent, and that she was just getting it out and hoping for some empathy. I'll only speak for myself, but my response was more to her second post. It didn't seem like a call for empathy in the slightest. Her words suggest one thing, but her actions seem to imply another:

 

I have admit that, every time we moved on Sunday, I said "perfume" louder as I instructed the family to collect their things and move. I like to think that people would want to know that their perfume is causing us discomfort, but you're probably right--they don't want to know.

 

Terri

 

I think many of us do empathize with being around overwhelming scents - whether floral, musky, or bodily. But I think many of us empathize MORE with being unaware of something and having it brought to our attention in a passive-aggressive manner rather than productively. Really, we've all seen people like that and once they've huffed off we laugh at their ridiculousness - we don't reflect on what we may have done to set them off :confused: it's like sending naughty kids to their rooms to "think about what they've done" LOL. (Read: pointless and delusional on our parts) Let's be real - that kind of passive-aggressive action is about us (making us feel better) than it is about educating anyone.

 

It could be uncomfortable, but I reckon many people would want to know their aroma was too strong - whether bodily or scented. I don't think they do it purposefully. Sense of scent is like any other sense - it can become desensitized, and even lost.

 

I'm heavy on the garlic when I cook because I've lost my taste for it and I have to keep adding more to taste it (meanwhile the rest of my family hasn't lost their taste for it, so our tolerance levels differ considerably). If I add too much garlic, it's not because I don't care about my family - it's because I instinctively tailor the dish for myself, and my own senses. If I'm made aware of other peoples' needs ahead of time, I can be pro-active. In fact, I want to be. I imagine most people do.

 

If nobody says anything until after the fact, I'm limited in what I can do in the moment but I can make note for next time. I understand you may want/need to pass on my dish this time (or move pews), but I can't fix a problem that I don't know exists. And that I don't know it exists isn't a personal thing, so don't take it that way. Educate me. If you truly want a solution, do so in a manner that suggests so.

Edited April 10, 2012 by eternalknot

[TranquilMind]

This is how I felt with peanut butter sandwiches and my child playing around other children. You absolutely can't understand, unless you have a child who might die because of your convenient sandwich. And nope, I could care less about smell, compared to sneezing my head off. Now yes, take a shower... but just get clean :) And my husband continues to wear aftershave that makes me "after sneeze" ;) BUT, at least he doesn't wear it around me, if he knows we'll be in the same car. It took a long time before he realized that yes, he'll have to go and scrub it off. And no, he can't leave the restroom door open if he has open Irish Clean soap.... Nope... scents are a problem for me!! :(

Now see, I could eat peanut butter sandwiches all day long. Or eat peanuts.

 

But I won't do it if I'm going somewhere where I would be enclosed with people, because it might be a problem for somebody like your daughter.

 

That's selfish for me to demand that my right to eat peanuts takes precedence over your daughter's right to breathe.

[Joker]

Now see, I could eat peanut butter sandwiches all day long. Or eat peanuts.

 

But I won't do it if I'm going somewhere where I would be enclosed with people, because it might be a problem for somebody like your daughter.

 

That's selfish for me to demand that my right to eat peanuts takes precedence over your daughter's right to breathe.

 

I know about peanut allergies but I have never based what I eat depending on where I will be going afterward. I have had pb on toast before church and never thought twice. I have gone to Five Guys and munched on peanuts before a dr's appointment and never thought I shouldn't because someone might be allergic. I also don't expect those in the same places to avoid what my family or I are allergic to. There are too many things that are a threat to someone to avoid them all.

[shinyhappypeople]

I never gave it a second thought until about three years ago when I wondered why this dear lady at our (very small) church always sat way in the back on a bench along the back wall instead of in the pews with everyone else. Then one Sunday the chaplain said something about her fragrance allergy. I thought that was so odd, but I stopped wearing scents to chapel because of her. I didn't think it was a big deal to stop. It's not like I stink if I don't wear it. I don't understand why everyone is so offended by the suggestion. It's like peanut allergy. I'm not going to insist that my child eat his PBJ sandwich in front of another kid whose anaphlaxically allergic. If it's a small thing to change to keep someone else from suffering, then we ought to be compassionate enough to be willing to change a little.

 

But would you stop eating peanut butter altogether on the remote chance that you might inadvertently cause a reaction in an allergic person? I know that I won't stop eating it "just in case."

 

I think most of us are sympathetic to the OP's situation. However, I just don't agree with how she handled it -- passive-aggressively at church (even though *no one* was intentionally harming her or her kids) and "yelling" online at us evil scented people :tongue_smilie:

[TranquilMind]

I'm 45 and have NEVER seen this. I live rural now, but lived for 20 years in the Dallas area, attending plenty of theaters, halls, etc. At our church, before we have a big gathering, we are sometimes reminded to "go gently on the perfume" out of respect for those who might be bothered. I wouldn't think that meant to never wear anything scented, but to not go overboard.

 

I would think it would be odd to have SEVERAL people in one group who all went overboard. If people wearing perfume or scented lotion even in moderation bothered me, I would consider that my problem to deal with, and would talk to whoever was in charge to help me find a better place to sit.

 

I think that wearing scented products in moderation is considered accceptable in our society. Going overboard is considered a faux pas and would not be inappropriate to address in a kind manner (I would only do that with someone I know well, not a stranger). But again, it would be odd to find SEVERAL in a group, the way the OP described who were actually overboard.

I'm over 50 and I have never seen such signs anywhere. I certainly wouldn't say "most" venues have these.

 

How I wish...

[chepyl]

I see them around too. :001_smile: But I will agree with the other posters that perhaps it is a regional thing.

 

I have never seen signs like this. Our church actually provides lotion in the women's restroom.

[Abigail4476]

Wow. I don't mind civil discussion about this topic, but the first post is so off-putting that people are bound to feel more disagreeable than necessary. (Me included)

 

I have allergies and there are very few scents I can tolerate and even fewer that I can actually wear. My sister was gifted with a big bottle of Dolce & Gabbana cologne last year because it broke me out in a rash everywhere I sprayed it and caused about 3 days of allergic misery. I had a moment of insanity, apparently, and walked out of the store (with a headache already beginning) thinking it might have been all the *other* perfumes that were the problem. :tongue_smilie: I loved the way it smelled so much that I temporarily convinced myself it would be "okay." :D That said, I LOVE perfume (both on myself and other people) and I will continue to wear it in public. Most people don't douse themselves in perfume; most people seem to be reasonable about it, and there are a lot of other people I wish would visit the perfume counter.

 

I wouldn't dream of asking my friends or family not to wear scents or lotions they enjoy. I certainly wouldn't be angry with them for going out in public smelling their best, even if it made my throat itch. :001_huh: Other people aren't responsible for my allergies; I am. It's up to me to limit my interaction with allergens; not control what other people do so I can be comfortable. I find that entire philosophy offensive. My son ALSO has asthma, which has multiple triggers. We carry around his inhaler in case of a reaction. It's our job to manage that; not anyone else's. His illness is limiting to him and us; not to the general public.

 

I disagree. I prefer perfume over the smell of bodies. That said, I do realize some people are over-zealous with it.

 

I won't be curtailing my own perfume use, though. Lucky for you I don't go to your church. ;)

 

Me, too. I'm not really into *natural* smells. Usually natural odors scream "go take a bath" to my nostrils. :D

 

Personally, I don't respond to rudeness. I respond to civility. The OP's post certainly didn't invite discussion, let alone compliance. If she treated people in our church rudely because of wearing perfume, our pastor would ask her to leave--because of the rudeness; not because of the request.

[Katiebug_1976]

STOP IT. There is no excuse, absolutely none, for imposing your scent on fellow church-goers. My family and I moved seats THREE times, which means we sat in four different spots, on Easter morning. I was so peeved after we'd been chased out of the third spot that I could not focus on the sermon. I just sat there pondering whether the ladies who reeked of perfume were selfish or just thoughtless.

 

On a typical Sunday morning, we sit in the less-populated balcony solely to avoid perfume, as most perfume makes two of my children sneeze and sniffle so much that they have to leave the service. When one of my daughters was younger, the perfume also could trigger her asthma. With the extra crowd at Easter, more people sat near us, and we ended up playing musical pews to avoid their perfumes.

 

You know what? If you don't reek of body odor, NO ONE CARES how you smell, especially the people sitting behind you in church.

 

Vent over.

 

Terri

 

:iagree: I'm right there with you! Strong perfume gives me such a headache. I just can't stand it!

[plansrme]

I wasn't going to check back on this thread, but I couldn't resist and now wish, again, that I hadn't. So here are my observations:

 

1. I just love that you all have imagined that I got into a snit, flounced and made a scene. It sounds so entertaining! I am so sorry to disappoint, but it wasn't quite that big of a production in real life. Moving 5 people from one pew to another (before the service started--not that anyone seemed to care about that) just is what it is. In each case, I (because I always smell it first) motioned for everyone to move with the single quiely-uttered word, "perfume." The perfume was always coming from in front of us--it isn't as if I did this in front of whomever was wearing the perfume. You all have imagined so much more. No old ladies were harmed or insulted in this adventure. If they overheard that one word, yea! Maybe they'll think to just say "no" to that second spritz/dollop next week. But I did not confront or embarrass anyone. Sorry!

 

2. I cannot believe the venom being justified on account of TWO words in all caps! Really, if I'd not written "STOP IT" in all caps, y'all wouldn't be crawling all over me? The "flies with honey," "that's just what Jesus would have done," etc., all that? I find that difficult to believe. What is the Latin phrase for attacking the messenger, rather than the message? I'll look that up tomorrow.

 

3. And the number of posters who have proudly pledged to wear extra perfume to make children miserable, in church, just to irritate me, is truly alarming. That is just never appropriate.

 

4. Discretely directing my family to another pew was passive aggressive. (But see #1 above, about how I was in a snit and made a scene--love the impossibility there, but I digress. . .) Yet, rather than just moving (passively), I should have handled it directly (not passively) by--what, again? I'm still not sure how the vote came down between suggesting that the ladies in question take a shower versus my handing out warm moistened hand towels. And what in the world was an usher supposed to do about it? Should he be the one handing out hand towels?

 

5. Could I get some clarification on just who can and who can't vent? Do I need an avatar? Signature line? Do I need to respond to more threads with this: :grouphug: Or is it just enough for me to know that whoever it is, it isn't me, 'cause I'm not in the clique? I'm going with "not in the clique."

 

For those of you who were able to read the original post in the spirit in which it was intended, thank you. I feel better and, for better or worse, wiser now. And if this ridiculous--truly ridiculous-- thread makes someone think twice about perfume use next time, thank you for being considerate.

 

Terri

[Marylou]

Why do people want to attract flies?

[besroma]

Why do people want to attract flies?

 

:lol: Hahahahaha! I needed that! :D

Edited April 10, 2012 by besroma

[DianeW88]

*shrugs* I like fragrance. I wear it often and will continue to do so. I always wear it to church because it makes me feel more dressed. It's one spritz and it's not a big deal. If folks are offended by it, they can move. Nobody ever has.

[SKL]

I wasn't going to check back on this thread, but I couldn't resist and now wish, again, that I hadn't. So here are my observations:

 

1. I just love that you all have imagined that I got into a snit, flounced and made a scene. It sounds so entertaining! I am so sorry to disappoint, but it wasn't quite that big of a production in real life. Moving 5 people from one pew to another (before the service started--not that anyone seemed to care about that) just is what it is. In each case, I (because I always smell it first) motioned for everyone to move with the single quiely-uttered word, "perfume." The perfume was always coming from in front of us--it isn't as if I did this in front of whomever was wearing the perfume. You all have imagined so much more. No old ladies were harmed or insulted in this adventure. If they overheard that one word, yea! Maybe they'll think to just say "no" to that second spritz/dollop next week. But I did not confront or embarrass anyone. Sorry!

 

Terri

 

"I have admit that, every time we moved on Sunday, I said "perfume" louder as I instructed the family to collect their things and move."

 

Your own words were interpreted a certain way by many people. Does that mean we are out to get you, or could it mean that your words did not aptly express how you really felt?

 

I read the words in quotes above to mean that you were grumbling on purpose, louder and louder, to let the stinky offenders know that they had upset you. (Also the fact that you were so angry that you could not concentrate on the sermon - over something nobody did on purpose to hurt you - supported this interpretation.) If that is not what you meant, perhaps your wording could have been more clear. We are not mind readers.

[HeidiKC]

i wish the anti-deodorant folks would get the same memo.

 

:lol:

[HeidiKC]

I stand by my original post, though--there is no excuse for wearing strong perfume in church. If you are doing so knowing that it bothers other people, that is rude and inconsiderate, and you deserve to be called on it; if you are doing it out of ignorance, well, now you know.

 

Here's the problem - "there is no excuse for wearing strong perfume in church". And you put those people into two categories - those that know (and are rude), and those that are ignorant (and now know). Well, I doubt very many people "know" that they are wearing strong perfume. Most people want to avoid wearing strong perfume, although a few might choose to. And you say that now all the other strong perfume wearers who were ignorant now know. HOW do they (I?) know???? You're not saying anyone that wears perfume, just "strong perfume". I think the majority of perfume wearers want to avoid smelling too strongly of perfume. I like to wear just a little perfume, and I THINK it is very faint and probably not detectable more than 2' away from me. But how they heck do I know? For all I know you're calling me out, too. I don't SEEM to be one of these people you refer to.

 

So I think that's the biggest problem. Old ladies with poor sense of smell have no idea they are overdosing, and probably neither do so many others. I'm not sure how helpful your e-mail has been in educating any of the offenders. If you said anyone that wears perfume at all, then I could see it differently. But you're just calling out strong perfume wearers.

 

I do sympathize, but I must say you seem extremely angry at a group of people on this board - and those people obviously intend you no harm and probably still don't recognize themselves. It's not very pleasant to read a rather nasty post, not sure at all if we're your intended audience. But I doubt any of us here are the perfume wearers you encountered on Easter.

 

I think the most effective thing would be to speak to the church leadership about the issue. Nicely.

[SKL]

But how they heck do I know? For all I know you're calling me out, too.

 

After reading this thread, I begin to wonder if I am offending someone by using bath soap / shampoo / conditioner that has a scent. Or my zit medicine, for that matter. Or my laundry soap or dryer sheet.

 

If you're extremely sensitive, I don't think I can help fix the problem even if I want to. Everything has some scent.

 

I do have a friend who uses perfume to mask the fact that she didn't shower. It is so strong, it somehow penetrates my closed door. That is NOT an acceptable use of perfume. I think most people know that, but I'm not sure how prevalent this practice actually is.

[JennifersLost]

Boy - I live in a small town in Canada and no-scent notices are posted on EVERY public venue and school in town. It's surprising to me some people have never heard of it.

 

I got physically ill for years in restaurants, churches, malls, theatres, etc. until I finally realized perfume was the culprit. I learn building by building the ones I can and can't attend. I'm already fretting about my ds's graduation next year because I can't see any way I'll make it through 3 hours in a small auditorium.

 

I think one thing that people don't get is that in a church it doesn't matter if every person wearing perfume only wears a dab - it's a closed room and all of it mingles in the air and gets stronger from the combined body heat, too. There's nowhere for it to disperse to.

 

And like another poster said - it's not just women dabbing perfume on their wrists - it's all the fabric softeners, perfumed laundry, perfumed deodorant, perfumed hair products, and on and on. It's too much.

[PrairieSong]

I think one thing that people don't get is that in a church it doesn't matter if every person wearing perfume only wears a dab - it's a closed room and all of it mingles in the air and gets stronger from the combined body heat, too. There's nowhere for it to disperse to.

 

And like another poster said - it's not just women dabbing perfume on their wrists - it's all the fabric softeners, perfumed laundry, perfumed deodorant, perfumed hair products, and on and on. It's too much.

 

Count me as one who had no idea this could be such a serious health issue. I have NEVER seen a notice in any building or church bulletin asking others to be scent-free.

 

What I wonder is, if it is not just perfume/cologne, but all the other things you mentioned, laundry products, shampoo, conditioner, etc., what are people expected to do? I don't think everyone is going to stop using all those products.

 

Honestly, I will probably still occasionally wear my one spritz of citrus-scented body spray...unless I somehow am made aware that someone else at my church has a serious allergy. I am NOT trying to be insensitive at all, but I think it is the allergic person's responsibility to make this known to others. Isn't that reasonable?

[Georgiana Daniels]

The tags on this thread are hilarious!

 

Scent-free zones are rare. I attend a scent-free conference, and thanks to this thread I now know why. It never occurred to me how sensitive a topic it is.

[Denisemomof4]

 

Obviously, many just don't give a rip. Which is why it keeps coming up over and over, I guess.

 

 

 

To say that you (general you) just don't care if someone DIES or goes to the ER because of how it was presented seems really ridiculously selfish to me. If you know, you are on notice. If it doesn't apply to you, disregard. If it does, don't do it. Unless you just don't care because your right to wear perfume trumps another's right to breathe.

 

It is not that others don't give a rip. This thhread is shocking to me. I will be 49 in a few weeks, have never seen scent free signs anywhere in public, even in major cities, nd had NO CLUE how serious this situation cou,d be. I am certain most people in my life are not aware of this situation either. I even have a friend who get headaches from scents. Still, I had NO IDEA.

 

Of course nobody would wear a strong scent on purpose knowing someone could die because of it. But I am confident many, if not most, scent wearers have no clue.

[Butter]

But would you stop eating peanut butter altogether on the remote chance that you might inadvertently cause a reaction in an allergic person? I know that I won't stop eating it "just in case."

 

That all depends. Yes, if I was asked to. No, if I'm just going to the store and being around the general public. A few years ago we lived in a place with a little boy at the church who was allergic to so many things (PB included, but there was a list of like 10-12 other things, too). When he got old enough for nursery (18 months), the parents met with the leaders and it was decided he'd go to nursery and all the parents of kids in nursery would be asked not to feed their kids any of his major allergens before church and wipes would be used on hands and what not. One of my kids was in the nursery. Was it inconvenient? Yes. Was it worth it? Yes. Maybe the odds of a major reaction were slim for him if a kid had something for breakfast, but better to try to prevent it than to have to treat it.

 

As for perfume allergies, I've been in churches where people were asked (by the leadership) to refrain from using scents. MOST people are perfectly willing to comply. I have seen a few people get downright angry at the request. I don't get that. It's always the ones who practically bathe in it who get the most angry it seems. It's like the little boy with all the food allergies. I never would have even thought about not feeding my own kid that stuff when he'd be around that boy. But I was asked not to. It seems like common courtesy to comply with such a request that is truly not the end of the world for me, but failure to comply could be the end of the world for the allergic person.

 

BUT, being passive aggressive isn't going to help. If the parents had made snarky comments about what our kids were eating, we'd never have even thought that they meant we should stop. We'd have thought the parents were weird or crazy. It's appropriate to have the leadership make an announcement or post a notice. It's even appropriate when you have to get up and move to say something (nicely) about how their perfume is lovely, but unfortunately you are sensitive to it. Nothing will change if you aren't polite.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

Well my momma always said you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

 

I understand allergies. But the original post was way over the top. People aren't out to get you with their perfume. Wearing perfume is socially acceptable. You have the allergy.

 

Fluorescent lighting gives me migraines. Should I stomp into every store, church, school or public facility of any kind that has fluorescent lighting and rant and rave and accuse them of being insensitive to my migraines? No. Fluorescent lighting is common. I am the one with the problem so I cope with it or I don't go to those places.

 

Your pastor may very well be willing to establish a no perfume zone but I sincerely hope you ask in a much nicer way than how you presented it here.

 

 

.

 

 

Ummm, THIS!!! :iagree:

[FiveOaksAcademy]

And if this is how you handle the situation ... By being rude to those who may not even realize it is a problem... Then you deserve to be called rude and have your requests ignored.

 

I prefer to handle things in a more civilized manner. YMMV

 

:iagree: again

Edited April 10, 2012 by FiveOaksAcademy

[Lolly]

A little bit is no big deal for most people (and, truly, if it is then maybe the allergic person needs to do something like a surgical mask). It's the people who practically bathe in it that is the problem. I think perhaps some people don't realize how much perfume they are wearing because they get used to it and just don't smell it themselves anymore.

 

My dd carries a surgical mask. Unfortunately, the particulate size is not adequate to keep the offending particles out. She has researched it and can tell you what sized particles are in perfumes and smoke. She has not been able to find a mask to purchase that can work. She wears the ones she can find when she is entering a store. (No smoking policies seem to cause everyone to stand in a semi-circle around the entrance.)

 

This dd has passed out twice in college classes due to cigarette smoke on people clothing. Perfumes are a problem, but do not have as fast a reaction time for her as smoke. We no longer attend church. We only attend movies during slow times when we will be able to get up and move easily to avoid scents as people come in and sit down. She has waited in lines at the grocery store for long periods of time only to have someone come up behind her who has smoked recently who causes her to have to quickly vacate her buggy in the line and leave the line. It is that or crumple to the floor. We may be halfway through a meal in a restaurant and have to change tables because someone has decided to share their lovely fragrance with the world. I regularly loudly announce "smoker" or "perfume" when walking in public. As a group, my family then all heads up to sniff out the direction of the offensive odor and heads the other way. We move like a school of fish. I'm sure it is an odd thing to see. Generally, the allergic dd is in the center position so that we can sniff out the bad smells and herd her away from them before she gets a whiff. She has quite a nose though, and often notices before we do. I can now smell a smoker (without a cigarette in hand) from about 10 away.

 

So, yes, if you were not aware, perfumes (and smoke) can cause a huge problem for other people. Particularly if you work in a medical field, please be aware of this and stop wearing them. We have also had to request different nurses while being treated because the one originally assigned was wearing perfume. Body odor, while offensive at times, does not tend to cause allergic or asthmatic responses. Yes, it can make you gag; but I have never heard of it sending someone to the ER.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Lolly

[TN Mama]

No, it is a legitimate question. Really...what should she have done while in the circumstance...except leave? She was really asking, if I read it correctly.

 

Maybe leave quietly instead of saying "PERFUME" as they were leaving their seats?

 

I understand being sensitive to smells and how frustrating that might be, especially at church. What I don't understand is how the op (and others) think that passive-agressive behavior is ok.

Edited April 10, 2012 by TN Mama

[plansrme]

Essentially a double post from last night--thought I had been timed out. Sorry 'bout that.

Edited April 10, 2012 by plansrme

[PrairieSong]

To the OP: I am very sorry that your family has this problem. It sounds awful. The thing is, the original post was worded in such a way that you were telling all of us to stop wearing perfume...and perhaps this was an exaggeration to make a point. But anyway, me not wearing perfume is not going to help you at all. I would definitely stop if our church made an announcement or had a sign, but they don't. I have never seen one of these anywhere, ever.

 

And...the reason people thought you were being rude is because you yourself said that when you and your family moved you said the word "perfume" louder each time. Well, we weren't there. We can only imagine how it happened and go by what you said.

 

I hope you can work things out with your church and get a scent-free zone where you can sit and be comfortable without having to worry about the perfume allergy. This will take some education, and not just a one-time announcement. You would have to post signs in obvious places. There still might be some who forget, or who are newcomers, or just visiting. I doubt that the vast majority of people are doing this on purpose. They just don't know. I certainly didn't. Good luck and God bless you.

[Soror]

Perfume bothers me as well, although not the extent of the OP. I have a guy we sit next too and he cannot even come when there is incense or he has an asthma attack. I like sitting next to him as his wife tends to warn everyone about perfume making the area (usually) much better.

 

I gotta say though as much as one might have detested the OP's delivering of the message it doesn't make sense to call it 'unChristlike' but then take on an eye for an eye attitude. You annoyed me so I want to cause you discomfort and harm, just out of spite. Perfume is not in any way a need.

 

To each their own though, I'm just thankful it is not life and death for me and generally easy enough to avoid.

[stripe]

If there is a request made to tone it down, I find it sad that some say they wouldn't care, just because of how it came across.

 

A sarcastic comment muttered under the breath while LEAVING church seems an ineffective method of achieving anything. It's also not a "request." The service is over, and the person already showed up with perfume on. Having the church leadership consider ways to handle this would be more likely to lead to churchgoers having time to think of how to address this. Ditto for churches that use incense as part of the ceremony, or flowers.

[Joanne]

Maybe leave quietly instead of saying "PERFUME" as they were leaving their seats?

 

I understand being sensitive to smells and how frustrating that might be, especially at church. What I don't understand is how the op (and others) think that passive-agressive behavior is ok.

 

Exactly. The OP's church rresponse gives no real information or education to people who truly do not know the extent of the problem. Had she been near me, I would have assumed she had a superficial preference and a bad day.

[ZooRho]

After reading this thread, I begin to wonder if I am offending someone by using bath soap / shampoo / conditioner that has a scent. Or my zit medicine, for that matter. Or my laundry soap or dryer sheet.

 

If you're extremely sensitive, I don't think I can help fix the problem even if I want to. Everything has some scent.

 

I do have a friend who uses perfume to mask the fact that she didn't shower. It is so strong, it somehow penetrates my closed door. That is NOT an acceptable use of perfume. I think most people know that, but I'm not sure how prevalent this practice actually is.

 

For me that is it, it isn't always the minor use, although depending on the brand it could be.

 

But it is the smelling of it way before someone gets there or lingering way after they are gone.

 

Sadly my son is one of those that douses himself. He does tone it down around me some. He had to wash clothes when I wasn't around because the laundry soap /softener does me in.

[shinyhappypeople]

That all depends. Yes, if I was asked to. No, if I'm just going to the store and being around the general public. A few years ago we lived in a place with a little boy at the church who was allergic to so many things (PB included, but there was a list of like 10-12 other things, too). When he got old enough for nursery (18 months), the parents met with the leaders and it was decided he'd go to nursery and all the parents of kids in nursery would be asked not to feed their kids any of his major allergens before church and wipes would be used on hands and what not. One of my kids was in the nursery. Was it inconvenient? Yes. Was it worth it? Yes. Maybe the odds of a major reaction were slim for him if a kid had something for breakfast, but better to try to prevent it than to have to treat it.

 

 

I'm on the same page as you, actually. If I *know* someone we'll be having contact with has an issue, then I'll do my best to make reasonable accommodations. But, I'm not going to stop "just in case." Make sense?

[shinyhappypeople]

So, yes, if you were not aware, perfumes (and smoke) can cause a huge problem for other people. Particularly if you work in a medical field, please be aware of this and stop wearing them. We have also had to request different nurses while being treated because the one originally assigned was wearing perfume. Body odor, while offensive at times, does not tend to cause allergic or asthmatic responses. Yes, it can make you gag; but I have never heard of it sending someone to the ER.

 

:grouphug:

 

I had no idea that someone could be that sensitive to scent! Does she have the same reaction to scents from fabric softeners, scented candles or other things like that?

[bkpan]

Now see, I could eat peanut butter sandwiches all day long. Or eat peanuts.

 

But I won't do it if I'm going somewhere where I would be enclosed with people, because it might be a problem for somebody like your daughter.

 

That's selfish for me to demand that my right to eat peanuts takes precedence over your daughter's right to breathe.

 

I think that you need to give some thought to your logic here. What you are saying is that basically you will never allow yourself to eat peanuts or peanut butter when you will be leaving your home and going to ANY enclosed building. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?? And really, people are allergic to many things other than peanuts. How are you going to be sensitive to ALL of them?

 

Think about it.

[Word Nerd]

I have admit that, every time we moved on Sunday, I said "perfume" louder as I instructed the family to collect their things and move. I like to think that people would want to know that their perfume is causing us discomfort, but you're probably right--they don't want to know.

 

 

Saying you have to admit you said "perfume" progressively louder so that those careless people around you would know you were all uncomfortable (and later that you were so angry you couldn't even listen to the sermon) paints a very different picture of what happened than this:

 

In each case, I (because I always smell it first) motioned for everyone to move with the single quiely-uttered word, "perfume." The perfume was always coming from in front of us--it isn't as if I did this in front of whomever was wearing the perfume.

 

The reason people thought you were in a passive-aggressive snit is that that's how you originally portrayed the incident.

 

I'm sorry that scents cause you and your family so many difficulties (sincerely), and it's certainly a valid concern that many—obviously!—still need to be educated about. But if your posts in this thread are any indication, you seem to have some communication issues that are likely making things more difficult for you than they need to be.

[bkpan]

Wow. I don't mind civil discussion about this topic, but the first post is so off-putting that people are bound to feel more disagreeable than necessary. (Me included)

 

I have allergies and there are very few scents I can tolerate and even fewer that I can actually wear. My sister was gifted with a big bottle of Dolce & Gabbana cologne last year because it broke me out in a rash everywhere I sprayed it and caused about 3 days of allergic misery. I had a moment of insanity, apparently, and walked out of the store (with a headache already beginning) thinking it might have been all the *other* perfumes that were the problem. :tongue_smilie: I loved the way it smelled so much that I temporarily convinced myself it would be "okay." :D That said, I LOVE perfume (both on myself and other people) and I will continue to wear it in public. Most people don't douse themselves in perfume; most people seem to be reasonable about it, and there are a lot of other people I wish would visit the perfume counter.

 

I wouldn't dream of asking my friends or family not to wear scents or lotions they enjoy. I certainly wouldn't be angry with them for going out in public smelling their best, even if it made my throat itch. :001_huh: Other people aren't responsible for my allergies; I am. It's up to me to limit my interaction with allergens; not control what other people do so I can be comfortable. I find that entire philosophy offensive. My son ALSO has asthma, which has multiple triggers. We carry around his inhaler in case of a reaction. It's our job to manage that; not anyone else's. His illness is limiting to him and us; not to the general public.

 

 

 

Me, too. I'm not really into *natural* smells. Usually natural odors scream "go take a bath" to my nostrils. :D

 

Personally, I don't respond to rudeness. I respond to civility. The OP's post certainly didn't invite discussion, let alone compliance. If she treated people in our church rudely because of wearing perfume, our pastor would ask her to leave--because of the rudeness; not because of the request.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Great post!

[Word Nerd]

I gotta say though as much as one might have detested the OP's delivering of the message it doesn't make sense to call it 'unChristlike' but then take on an eye for an eye attitude. You annoyed me so I want to cause you discomfort and harm, just out of spite. Perfume is not in any way a need.

 

 

Making a snarky comment on a web forum about being tempted to do something out of spite isn't the same as actually doing it in real life, though.

[bkpan]

I wasn't going to check back on this thread, but I couldn't resist and now wish, again, that I hadn't. So here are my observations:

 

1. I just love that you all have imagined that I got into a snit, flounced and made a scene. It sounds so entertaining! I am so sorry to disappoint, but it wasn't quite that big of a production in real life. Moving 5 people from one pew to another (before the service started--not that anyone seemed to care about that) just is what it is. In each case, I (because I always smell it first) motioned for everyone to move with the single quiely-uttered word, "perfume." The perfume was always coming from in front of us--it isn't as if I did this in front of whomever was wearing the perfume. You all have imagined so much more. No old ladies were harmed or insulted in this adventure. If they overheard that one word, yea! Maybe they'll think to just say "no" to that second spritz/dollop next week. But I did not confront or embarrass anyone. Sorry!

 

2. I cannot believe the venom being justified on account of TWO words in all caps! Really, if I'd not written "STOP IT" in all caps, y'all wouldn't be crawling all over me? The "flies with honey," "that's just what Jesus would have done," etc., all that? I find that difficult to believe. What is the Latin phrase for attacking the messenger, rather than the message? I'll look that up tomorrow.

 

3. And the number of posters who have proudly pledged to wear extra perfume to make children miserable, in church, just to irritate me, is truly alarming. That is just never appropriate.

 

4. Discretely directing my family to another pew was passive aggressive. (But see #1 above, about how I was in a snit and made a scene--love the impossibility there, but I digress. . .) Yet, rather than just moving (passively), I should have handled it directly (not passively) by--what, again? I'm still not sure how the vote came down between suggesting that the ladies in question take a shower versus my handing out warm moistened hand towels. And what in the world was an usher supposed to do about it? Should he be the one handing out hand towels?

 

5. Could I get some clarification on just who can and who can't vent? Do I need an avatar? Signature line? Do I need to respond to more threads with this: :grouphug: Or is it just enough for me to know that whoever it is, it isn't me, 'cause I'm not in the clique? I'm going with "not in the clique."

 

For those of you who were able to read the original post in the spirit in which it was intended, thank you. I feel better and, for better or worse, wiser now. And if this ridiculous--truly ridiculous-- thread makes someone think twice about perfume use next time, thank you for being considerate.

 

Terri

 

My guess is that you are just not truly aware at the level of hostility in every one of your posts, including this one. I like that you mention being considerate. It would do you well to reflect on this.

[Hope in God]

Wow, there is a lot of pages and I'm a late comer so I haven't been here the whole time or even read all the posts.

 

I will sympathize with the OP about allergies. My 3 little ones have a lot of allergies but none of them are anaphalactic or environmental. Before I entered the world of allergy I was not unsympathetic, but more unconcerned about allergies. They weren't my problem. I just didn't know how difficult it can be and therefore I couldn't really empathize with people who had these concerns. What I have learned is that:

 

1) Allergies are very stressful. Before I was able to pinpont what was causing my children the problems that they were having I was anxious and stressed all. the. time. My little ones were always crying about tummy pain and always feeling sick and sad. It was terrible to see them constantly suffer!

 

2) Because allergies cause so much anxiety people can get, er, upset easily. Staying up all night planning how to avoid allergens can leave a person tired and unhappy. I think the OP was feeling frustrated when she posted. Who wouldn't be?

 

3) When all your best efforts to avoid allergic situations are twarted it is a very defeating experience and begs the question 'why me?' Why can't I escape this issue for just 1 day?

 

I'm sure environmental allergies are even more difficult because how on earth can you control your environment? I can control what goes into my kids mouths but how do you control what goes into their noses??

 

OP, I feel yor pain. I would do my best to educate those around me and, as some pp said, to get a scent free zone in your church. People will complain initally but it will eventually just become the norm. We have "Scent Free Zone" signs in every medical building or clinic where I live and if people come in with purfume they will read the sign and know for the next time. It is all about educating.

 

On a side note, though my kids are allergic to gluten (wheat), dairy, soy, corn, rice, almonds, cashews, tomatoes, citrus, they can have peanuts (go figure eh?). Even with this limited diet I really do try to consider where I am going before giving my kids peanut butter for lunch just in case there is a child that they may be in close contact with that has a peanut allergy. I will not give them peanuts before going to community functions or classes where I'm not sure that there may be a peanut allergy.

 

A couple stories:

 

My friend was walking another child to school with her kids and a dog came by so the kids pet the dog. While they were petting the dog the dog licked the child which immediately started an anaphalactic reaction in this child because he had a severe milk allergy and the dog had just eaten a milk bone. Luckily they had the epi pen.

 

Just last year a teenage girl died at the mall during school lunch break because she kissed her boyfriend and he had eaten peanuts a number of hours before. She had left her epi pen in her locker at school.

 

I can't imagine, as a mom, what kind of nervous wreck I would be if my kids had allergies like these so I try to have compassion for other people who are going through these things.

[Parrothead]

 

You annoyed me so I want to cause you discomfort and harm, just out of spite. Perfume is not in any way a need.

 

Just let me clarify that what I said was snark. And it was in response to rudeness. I personally don't take rudeness and raving seriously. That was what I was trying to convey. If one wants to rant and rave and make unreasonable demands I'm not going to listen. (Apparently I'm not alone.) I'm going to go about my business and do what I have to do.

 

No, I would not intentionally harm someone's child. Yes, I know allergies can be life threatening. I carry my own epi-pen so, yeah, I know.

 

And while we are on the subject of being taken seriously I do not expect anyone to take me seriously when I'm being rude or behaving badly.