Should I report this family to Children's Services?

[Joanne]

I have never seen an adult outside supervising the kids. One child is mentally challenged; he has no idea about the rules of the road when riding his bike and has almost been hit twice (times that I have witnessed.)

 

Another child always pushes the child in the wheelchair onto the bus. If the special needs bus arrives before the other school bus, an adult is not available to get the child in the wheelchair off the bus. (This happened again today, although this time the bus driver did not go knock on the door. She waited about 5 minutes and then drove away with the boy still on the bus.)

 

The mentally challenged child goes into homes and takes food from the refrigerator. While this has not happened to us (we have a big dog), I am good friends with one of the families (more than just neighborhood friends if that makes sense.) so I know this is true.

 

Paragraph 1: This is not reportable. School aged children being outside is not neglect.

 

Paragraph 2: There is public school bus protocol (and reporting) involved here. Trust me when I tell you the documentation of such events is huge.

 

Paragraph 3: Then the person who had the food stolen needs to make a report that a special needs teen stole food.

[jennsmile]

You are absolutely correct. There are many assumptions on my part. If I knew for a fact that all of what I have heard second hand were true, I would have called by now. The cognitive ability was also told to me by a neighbor whose friend works in our school system. I was told he is a "crack" baby. So, yes, this is another assumption as well.

 

I can tell you that when he was almost run over by the car, there was absolutely no recognition on his part how close he came to getting hit. The driver got out of his car to yell at the kid, and the kid just smiled and waved (and not in a snide way).

 

I don't know much at all. The vast majority is "through the grapevine". All I know for sure is the following:

 

I have never seen an adult outside supervising the kids. One child is mentally challenged; he has no idea about the rules of the road when riding his bike and has almost been hit twice (times that I have witnessed.)

 

Another child always pushes the child in the wheelchair onto the bus. If the special needs bus arrives before the other school bus, an adult is not available to get the child in the wheelchair off the bus. (This happened again today, although this time the bus driver did not go knock on the door. She waited about 5 minutes and then drove away with the boy still on the bus.)

 

The mentally challenged child goes into homes and takes food from the refrigerator. While this has not happened to us (we have a big dog), I am good friends with one of the families (more than just neighborhood friends if that makes sense.) so I know this is true.

 

Not being there to pick up a child off the bus won't get a call to CPS. Likely the child is returned to the school where then teacher or somebody then calls all the numbers they have for the family trying to get somebody to pick up the kid. While it is annoying and time consuming unless it is several hours rarely are the authorities called. Usually somebody get the kid right before they make the call. At least that is my experience in being married to an educator.

[3Blessings]

I didn't look thoroughly at all your responses, but wanted to warn that my understanding from 3 states I have lived in is that you are required to report by law. You don't need to worry about your name being given since reporter's names are not disclosed.

 

Having said that, it is highly unlikely that you would be held responsible for not reporting. When I was an educator, however, it took a lot of hesitation off my mind when I knew that I had no choice. If I had serious concerns or a confirmed case of abuse or neglect I had to report. It is my understanding that neighbors are also required reporters. It is worth finding out for peace of mind.

 

I would report it. The school likely already has, but perhaps it would add to the urgency of the situation if you spoke up as a concerned neighbor.

[snowbeltmom]

Not being there to pick up a child off the bus won't get a call to CPS. Likely the child is returned to the school where then teacher or somebody then calls all the numbers they have for the family trying to get somebody to pick up the kid. While it is annoying and time consuming unless it is several hours rarely are the authorities called. Usually somebody get the kid right before they make the call. At least that is my experience in being married to an educator.

Up until yesterday, the special needs bus has arrived after the regular bus, so another child has been home to get the other child in the wheelchair off the bus. My concern is that the kids are home alone since no one has been available to get the child off the special needs bus if it arrives first.

[SweetMissMagnolia]

As much as I believe in parents' rights, that sounds like a problematic situation that deserves at least a look. I would not blame you if you called.

:iagree:

[zaichiki]

I just don't know if I have enough concrete information, or if it would matter since based on some other responses it sounds like the school and the bus driver would have been obligated to report what they witnessed first hand.

 

I think this is the point.

 

You should *not* call to report what happened with the diapers, the neighbor's refrigerator, or the school bus. The school, the bus driver, and the neighbor are the ones who need to report those things. It sounds like you want to call and report things other people have told you.

[zaichiki]

He was in someone's house without them knowing him (just having seen him).

 

It sounds like this is not ongoing and that the neighbor took steps to deal with it. If it happened again, I would strongly encourage the neighbor to call the police and/or CPS. But I don't think it's the OP's place. She wasn't involved in any way. She only knows what the neighbor shared about the situation.

[snowbeltmom]

I think this is the point.

 

You should *not* call to report what happened with the diapers, the neighbor's refrigerator, or the school bus. The school, the bus driver, and the neighbor are the ones who need to report those things. It sounds like you want to call and report things other people have told you.

First of all, I really don't want to call. Until I read some of the others' responses, I did not realize that the bus situation would have to be reported by the bus driver.

 

I am concerned that the bus driver will drop off the child if the other child who is mentally impaired is home to get him off the bus when based on the last two days, it is possible that an adult is not home in the afternoons. I had no intention of mentioning the diapers to C.S. I would mention the near-misses on the bike that I have seen.

[KungFuPanda]

Can you type up an anonymous statement of what you personally witnessed and sign it Neighbor A, and get the other neighbors who are concerned to do the same? You could mail it in anonymously. The people sound off and I wouldn't want them going nuts on me or my family, but someone has to check on the kids. It's beyond strange to leave a wheelchair bound child to fend for himself, or not to supervise a mentally impaired child.

 

If things are fine, and quirks can be explained that's great. However, if something happens and nobody reported the suspicious activity, that would be horrible.

[EmilyK]

I'm curious if those of you who wouldn't report would change your minds if these were all things that the OP had first hand knowledge of. In other words, is it the fact that she doesn't know these things first-hand, or that the things that have been mentioned don't rise to the level of reporting?

 

If so, is there anything that you could hear from another person (and not personally witness) that would cause you to call? Or a level of trusted source that would change the answer?

 

I'm still trying to sort out what I think about thoes questions, so they aren't asked with a hidden agenda. I'm a mandatory reporter but there's much less info out there about standards for neglect as opposed to abuse.

 

I guess a final question / musing -- this may not be the situation here, but what if something really bad was going on in a family, but they insulated themselves from contact as described here (or even more so), so it was harder to get a sense factually of what's going on, does that change what individuals / society should do? What if no one person has enough direct access to facts to know something bad?

 

I don't think schools are omniscient about this.

 

OK, one more -- does it change the "wrongness" or your sense that something may be up if you know / hear rumor that the family may be receiving compensation for having the children in their family (e.g., foster care or special needs adoption)? This is not related to the OP but to a situation I was aware of in real life.

[Joanne]

I'm curious if those of you who wouldn't report would change your minds if these were all things that the OP had first hand knowledge of. In other words, is it the fact that she doesn't know these things first-hand, or that the things that have been mentioned don't rise to the level of reporting?

 

If so, is there anything that you could hear from another person (and not personally witness) that would cause you to call? Or a level of trusted source that would change the answer?

 

I'm still trying to sort out what I think about thoes questions, so they aren't asked with a hidden agenda. I'm a mandatory reporter but there's much less info out there about standards for neglect as opposed to abuse.

 

I guess a final question / musing -- this may not be the situation here, but what if something really bad was going on in a family, but they insulated themselves from contact as described here (or even more so), so it was harder to get a sense factually of what's going on, does that change what individuals / society should do? What if no one person has enough direct access to facts to know something bad?

 

I don't think schools are omniscient about this.

 

OK, one more -- does it change the "wrongness" or your sense that something may be up if you know / hear rumor that the family may be receiving compensation for having the children in their family (e.g., foster care or special needs adoption)? This is not related to the OP but to a situation I was aware of in real life.

 

Reporting on assumption, hearsay, and rumors is beyond irresponsible. There is nothing in the details that are a direct observation of neglect or abuse. In order to declare abuse or neglect, you have to assume and make leaps.

 

Abuse and neglect are abuse and neglect whether "compensation" is involved or not.

 

And, in this case, the school bus driver is involved everyday. People seem to miss that there is protocol, documentation and follow up each and every time the child does not have someone to greet himand bring him home.

[snowbeltmom]

Reporting on assumption, hearsay, and rumors is beyond irresponsible. There is nothing in the details that are a direct observation of neglect or abuse. In order to declare abuse or neglect, you have to assume and make leaps.

 

Abuse and neglect are abuse and neglect whether "compensation" is involved or not.

 

And, in this case, the school bus driver is involved everyday. People seem to miss that there is protocol, documentation and follow up each and every time the child does not have someone to greet himand bring him home.

 

I don't mean this to sound defensive, I am just trying to figure this out. You don't think that permitting the 16 year old to ride a bike when it is obvious to anyone who has observed him on the road that it is amazing that he has not been hit by a car is not a form of neglect? Is this type of situation something that would not concern Children's Services? (I have no idea of the answer?)

 

Also, it is very possible that the only person available to greet the child in the wheelchair is the mentally impaired boy who is also responsible for his care once he gets inside the house. Again, this is purely speculation based on the fact that no one answered the door when the special needs bus arrived home first. But even if the kids are home alone, would C.S. consider this a form of neglect or would they say it is not a problem since the oldest boy is 16?

 

Maybe both of the situations that I have direct first-hand knowledge that concern me would not be a concern to Children's Service?

Edited January 11, 2012 by snowbeltmom
added another question at the end

[ma23peas]

My first response would be to go to my local precinct/sheriff...talk to someone in charge...they are able to look up the names of the owners and do a background search, also check into the schools for any pattern of problems. If they find anything out that may need to be checked into, they can contact cps or make a neighborly call...

 

I had a concern about a neighbor and our sheriff's office did a background check and gave me specific things to look out for and tips on how to help this family..they are there to protect and serve...let them help you.

[In2why]

I'm curious if those of you who wouldn't report would change your minds if these were all things that the OP had first hand knowledge of. In other words, is it the fact that she doesn't know these things first-hand, or that the things that have been mentioned don't rise to the level of reporting?

 

If so, is there anything that you could hear from another person (and not personally witness) that would cause you to call? Or a level of trusted source that would change the answer?

 

I'm still trying to sort out what I think about thoes questions, so they aren't asked with a hidden agenda. I'm a mandatory reporter but there's much less info out there about standards for neglect as opposed to abuse.

 

I guess a final question / musing -- this may not be the situation here, but what if something really bad was going on in a family, but they insulated themselves from contact as described here (or even more so), so it was harder to get a sense factually of what's going on, does that change what individuals / society should do? What if no one person has enough direct access to facts to know something bad?

 

I don't think schools are omniscient about this.

 

OK, one more -- does it change the "wrongness" or your sense that something may be up if you know / hear rumor that the family may be receiving compensation for having the children in their family (e.g., foster care or special needs adoption)? This is not related to the OP but to a situation I was aware of in real life.

 

 

Yes there are rare situations where I would report even if I didn't have first hand knowledge. One of my closest friends was losing her mind because something was happening in her brothers family. It was an ongoing situation, and she felt that if she called it would tear apart the family, and that if anyone found out she called she would lose not only her brother, but her parents. She kept trying to do what she could to help inside the family. When the 3 year old showed up with a homemade crack pipe in his bookbag, I told her she had to call or I would. She wouldn't, I did I explained what I knew, and that I hadn't seen it myself but that the person who knew felt they couldn't call. The kids were removed from the home when CPS went to the house, and the kids are doing much better with their other grandparents. You don't have to prove what you saw, just your suspicions if the report seems reasonable and not out of spite. It isn't our job to prove anything. Or our responsibility.

[Slipper]

I don't mean this to sound defensive, I am just trying to figure this out. You don't think that permitting the 16 year old to ride a bike when it is obvious to anyone who has observed him on the road that it is amazing that he has not been hit by a car is not a form of neglect? Is this type of situation something that would not concern Children's Services? (I have no idea of the answer?)

 

Also, it is very possible that the only person available to greet the child in the wheelchair is the mentally impaired boy who is also responsible for his care once he gets inside the house. Again, this is purely speculation based on the fact that no one answered the door when the special needs bus arrived home first.

 

If there are two 14 yr old kids in two different cars - and one is a typical kid and one is a kid with limited comprehension - it is against the law to have a disabled child in a car alone regardless of age. (Same for the elderly). If a person does not have the mental capability to deal with an emergency situation, they cannot be left alone. (Personal experience reporting a disabled teen in a car - CPS was called even though the parent in question thought it was okay because he was a teenager).

 

IF the 16 yr old cannot adequately look after himself (and that includes riding in the street), he cannot be unattended.

 

There are a lot of 'rules' about looking after and taking care of kids who are disabled. Regardless of age, if they can't look after themselves, it is neglect.

 

It is possible that he can wheel his brother in the house and that might be his 'chore'. :) My younger daughters look after my oldest frequently regarding bathing, feeding, brushing her teeth, dressing her, etc. But, there should be an adult there to oversee things.

[Trish]

Joe Paterno would be relieved he didn't have to report hearsay.

[In2why]

Reporting on assumption, hearsay, and rumors is beyond irresponsible. There is nothing in the details that are a direct observation of neglect or abuse. In order to declare abuse or neglect, you have to assume and make leaps.

 

Abuse and neglect are abuse and neglect whether "compensation" is involved or not.

 

And, in this case, the school bus driver is involved everyday. People seem to miss that there is protocol, documentation and follow up each and every time the child does not have someone to greet himand bring him home.

 

 

I don't agree. Children live locked in closets because people didn't see it with their own eyes. A 4 year old girl was found eating skin flakes off her body, so emancipated they couldn't figure out her age with a dead baby under the shed here recently in our small town. The parents kept her locked in a playpen while they went to work and even out of town. They lived in a trailer park, someone had to hear her crying, before she gave up crying. Someone who had been in the house to celebrate the new baby they just had and were eager to show off should have questioned the.noise.and smell they reported as a dog locked.in the room. Someone had to have had a feeling but no proof.

[kalanamak]

Reporting on assumption, hearsay, and rumors is beyond irresponsible.

 

 

To me, "beyond irresponsible" is, e.g., driving drunk. Reporting on suspicion, not assumption, while being *honest about what you know and don't know* might save a life no one else cared to bother with. I know the "story" behind the Kitty Genovese Effect is debated, but I still think it a true human tendency, and I therefore purposefully act when I think everyone else has assumed someone has already acted on it.

[amey311]

I didn't look thoroughly at all your responses, but wanted to warn that my understanding from 3 states I have lived in is that you are required to report by law.

 

Morally or legally? THere are certain professions that are considered "mandated reporters" who are legally obligated to report evidence of abuse or neglect. Medical professionals (nurses, doctors, EMTs, etc), frequently teachers, children's camp directors often, etc. A neighbor isn't considered a mandated reporter.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandated_reporter

[jewellsmommy]

To me, "beyond irresponsible" is, e.g., driving drunk. Reporting on suspicion, not assumption, while being *honest about what you know and don't know* might save a life no one else cared to bother with. I know the "story" behind the Kitty Genovese Effect is debated, but I still think it a true human tendency, and I therefore purposefully act when I think everyone else has assumed someone has already acted on it.

 

 

I so very much agree!!!!! :iagree:

[Lawana]

To me, "beyond irresponsible" is, e.g., driving drunk. Reporting on suspicion, not assumption, while being *honest about what you know and don't know* might save a life no one else cared to bother with. I know the "story" behind the Kitty Genovese Effect is debated, but I still think it a true human tendency, and I therefore purposefully act when I think everyone else has assumed someone has already acted on it.

:iagree:

If the intent is to preserve the safety of the children, and the information gathered is based partly on observation, and partly on "hearsay," from what one might consider credible sources, I can't see how reporting can be deemed "beyond irresponsible." You simply can't assume that everything that is "supposed" to happen, will, in fact happen. Tragedies happen most frequently when not just one, but multiple layers of "supposed to's" are compromised.

 

OP: If you file an anonymous report, how can it come back to bite you? And if nothing comes of it, at least you will rest in the knowledge that you did what you could.

[StephanieZ]

At the end of the day, my personal moral code requires action here. There is a law higher than the gov't and higher than parent's rights . . . it is the moral duty to protect the innocent and the helpless.

 

If you are so averse to or afraid of the government that you can't or don't want to involve them, then you have a moral duty to personally make sure those kids are OK.

 

If you agreee with Joanne that it is unacceptable to report this situation, but you still have grave concerns, then you MUST be willing to knock on that door. Taking muffins or cookies. Talk to those kids and the parents. Keep knocking. Keep talking. And, personally step in to make sure that the kids are OK. Or, talk some minister or other responsible party into doing the knocking and the talking. And, then, at the end of it all, you live with the knowledge that you took that responsibility for YOURSELF, and you rejected the potential of other help (gov't).

 

If you find out 2 years from now that they've been living in abuse, can you live with yourself? Personally, I COULD NOT live with myself if I suspected something, on such reasonable basis, and I did not investigate it sufficiently myself to relieve my suspicion OR at the minimum, do what I could to involve other appropriate agencies or people to protect the children.

 

The gov't is there to make it easier to fulfill this moral duty.

 

You know, life sucks sometimes. Sometimes duties we don't want fall in our laps.

 

A small story: Last Thursday morning (dh's morning off), one of our staff members called my husband at home to get his OK to take in a batch of 3 kittens to our vet hospital's adoption program. The staff member assured him that "oh, yes, they're eating on their own." (If they are too young to self-feed, then we have to have a volunteer staff member to take them home overnights to bottle feed round the clock, so we won't OK taking them in until that was OKed.) So, anyway, the kittens turned out to be too small to self-feed. By Friday, it was clear that they wouldn't make it if someone didn't take them home. The LAST **** thing I want or need is a litter of kittens to bottle feed. Can't handle more pets (4 dogs and 4 cats already, all rescues that I can not stand to give up when we have fostered), don't have time, got lots going on, don't have time to spend an hour every 3-4 hours to bottle feed, medicate, clean, etc. Well, guess what, noone else would volunteer. There are a thousand kittens and puppies that die every week just b/c they don't have someone to look after them. I could come up with a hundred more reasons why these were not my responsibility . . . nonetheless, THEY WERE ON MY WATCH. Once they were in my care, well, home they went, formula mixed, medications compounded, late Sunday night futile trip to the hospital to try to save the third kitten that a staff member had taken home with her (ultrasound, x-rays, oxygen . . . died anyway, much tears), pneuomonia battled in our surviving two, poop washed, uncertain outcome, weeks to come of the same before we know if they are out of the woods . . . This is the VERY LAST THING I wanted. I DID NOT WANT this responsibility. I have enough! More than enough!

 

But, there they were. Helpless. And, on MY WATCH. In need of something it was possible for me to do. So, here I am. Doing what I can. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do just because it is the right thing. I know I can't save the world, but I can do what I can do.

 

I'll stay away from this thread now, just b/c it is making me so frustrated.

 

Good luck with your decisions, OP. I can read that your heart is in the right place, and I think you will do the right thing. Do your best to do what you believe is right; that's all you can do. (((hugs)))

[kitten18]

To me, "beyond irresponsible" is, e.g., driving drunk. Reporting on suspicion, not assumption, while being *honest about what you know and don't know* might save a life no one else cared to bother with. I know the "story" behind the Kitty Genovese Effect is debated, but I still think it a true human tendency, and I therefore purposefully act when I think everyone else has assumed someone has already acted on it.

:iagree:

[Lawana]

At the end of the day, my personal moral code requires action here. There is a law higher than the gov't and higher than parent's rights . . . it is the moral duty to protect the innocent and the helpless.

 

If you are so averse to or afraid of the government that you can't or don't want to involve them, then you have a moral duty to personally make sure those kids are OK.

 

If you agreee with Joanne that it is unacceptable to report this situation, but you still have grave concerns, then you MUST be willing to knock on that door. Taking muffins or cookies. Talk to those kids and the parents. Keep knocking. Keep talking. And, personally step in to make sure that the kids are OK. Or, talk some minister or other responsible party into doing the knocking and the talking. And, then, at the end of it all, you live with the knowledge that you took that responsibility for YOURSELF, and you rejected the potential of other help (gov't).

 

If you find out 2 years from now that they've been living in abuse, can you live with yourself? Personally, I COULD NOT live with myself if I suspected something, on such reasonable basis, and I did not investigate it sufficiently myself to relieve my suspicion OR at the minimum, do what I could to involve other appropriate agencies or people to protect the children.

 

The gov't is there to make it easier to fulfill this moral duty.

 

You know, life sucks sometimes. Sometimes duties we don't want fall in our laps.

 

A small story: Last Thursday morning (dh's morning off), one of our staff members called my husband at home to get his OK to take in a batch of 3 kittens to our vet hospital's adoption program. The staff member assured him that "oh, yes, they're eating on their own." (If they are too young to self-feed, then we have to have a volunteer staff member to take them home overnights to bottle feed round the clock, so we won't OK taking them in until that was OKed.) So, anyway, the kittens turned out to be too small to self-feed. By Friday, it was clear that they wouldn't make it if someone didn't take them home. The LAST **** thing I want or need is a litter of kittens to bottle feed. Can't handle more pets (4 dogs and 4 cats already, all rescues that I can not stand to give up when we have fostered), don't have time, got lots going on, don't have time to spend an hour every 3-4 hours to bottle feed, medicate, clean, etc. Well, guess what, noone else would volunteer. There are a thousand kittens and puppies that die every week just b/c they don't have someone to look after them. I could come up with a hundred more reasons why these were not my responsibility . . . nonetheless, THEY WERE ON MY WATCH. Once they were in my care, well, home they went, formula mixed, medications compounded, late Sunday night futile trip to the hospital to try to save the third kitten that a staff member had taken home with her (ultrasound, x-rays, oxygen . . . died anyway, much tears), pneuomonia battled in our surviving two, poop washed, uncertain outcome, weeks to come of the same before we know if they are out of the woods . . . This is the VERY LAST THING I wanted. I DID NOT WANT this responsibility. I have enough! More than enough!

 

But, there they were. Helpless. And, on MY WATCH. In need of something it was possible for me to do. So, here I am. Doing what I can. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do just because it is the right thing. I know I can't save the world, but I can do what I can do.

 

I'll stay away from this thread now, just b/c it is making me so frustrated.

 

Good luck with your decisions, OP. I can read that your heart is in the right place, and I think you will do the right thing. Do your best to do what you believe is right; that's all you can do. (((hugs)))

 

:grouphug::grouphug:You are a truly noble soul. Thank you.

[Joanne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joanne

Reporting on assumption, hearsay, and rumors is beyond irresponsible. There is nothing in the details that are a direct observation of neglect or abuse. In order to declare abuse or neglect, you have to assume and make leaps.

 

Abuse and neglect are abuse and neglect whether "compensation" is involved or not.

 

And, in this case, the school bus driver is involved everyday. People seem to miss that there is protocol, documentation and follow up each and every time the child does not have someone to greet himand bring him home.

 

To me, "beyond irresponsible" is, e.g., driving drunk. Reporting on suspicion, not assumption, while being *honest about what you know and don't know* might save a life no one else cared to bother with. I know the "story" behind the Kitty Genovese Effect is debated, but I still think it a true human tendency, and I therefore purposefully act when I think everyone else has assumed someone has already acted on it.

 

Please read my post in context. I was responding to a post asking questions in theory -I responded to THAT. I wrote words related to the OP several times.

 

Of course, you can still disagree, but please understand that I was responding to that poster; not the OP.

 

 

I don't agree. Children live locked in closets because people didn't see it with their own eyes. A 4 year old girl was found eating skin flakes off her body, so emancipated they couldn't figure out her age with a dead baby under the shed here recently in our small town. The parents kept her locked in a playpen while they went to work and even out of town. They lived in a trailer park, someone had to hear her crying, before she gave up crying. Someone who had been in the house to celebrate the new baby they just had and were eager to show off should have questioned the.noise.and smell they reported as a dog locked.in the room. Someone had to have had a feeling but no proof.

 

Red herring.

[Amy in NH]

I am kind of wondering if there really are any adults there at all.

 

:iagree:

[SKL]

Of course I could be misunderstanding, but my reading of the OP made me think those kids might be living without an adult in the home, or with an adult who is not involved at a minimal level in their care. That is the only reason I said I wouldn't blame the OP for calling. Of course I don't KNOW there is no adult there, but I'd want someone to check on it.

 

The 16yo occasionally doing something dangerous does not prove anything by itself. But you'd think that once in a while the parent would be out there chasing the kid down, correcting him, or telling him to come inside.

 

I don't know. I'm scared of CPS based on some things I've heard. But sometimes it's better to be safe than sorry.

[Tree House Academy]

If this were me...I would knock on the door and talk to the kids until I see a grown-up human being. I would also contact the school. For the LD and disabled kids to get services in the school system, they have to have an IEP...and a PARENT has to approve and sign said IEP.

 

In many ways, I fear the 16 year old might be the "adult" in that family right now. :( I sure hope I am wrong!

[zaichiki]

Of course I could be misunderstanding, but my reading of the OP made me think those kids might be living without an adult in the home, or with an adult who is not involved at a minimal level in their care.

 

I was wondering if the parents have a typical work schedule and the kids are latch-key kids for a couple of hours after school.

 

I also wondered if they could have hired help in the mornings and afternoons? And maybe the hired help was late a few times? I remember a neighbor who had a child with severe special needs and had nurses help out with readying child for school in the mornings. I remember how crazy it was for mom on the days the nurse didn't show or was late (for whatever reason).

 

If it was me, OP, I'd watch the house. I'd be curious about what times the cars come and go and who is in and out. I'd wonder who picked up the child in the wheelchair from school these last two days and what time they came home. Can you see the driveway from your house?

 

I'd also wonder if the 16 year old STILL raids fridges in the neighborhood, or if this has been handled.

[NorthwestMom]

OP, I have made the call to CPS under VERY similar circumstances. On our street, we have a family whose profoundly disabled autistic teenager would strip down to his diaper and walk out the front door and down the street and no one in his family would notice. We live near a very busy cross street. The first time he ended up in my yard I called 911 because I had no idea who he was (having recently moved in), and they were able to identify him from my description, call his house phone, and had someone walk down to pick him up. The second time, I was able to convince him to walk home with me and discovered, via the wide open front door, that his home was a Hoarders disaster with paths through the garbage.

 

I called and made a report. I reported both wandering events and the condition of the house. I left my name and phone number since the family would figure out who did it anyway.

 

Amazingly, this child DID have a case worker who actually called me back and we had an excellent conversation. The cleanliness was a lost cause, but I emphasized to her the danger of the road and the likelihood of injury or death since the boy functioned at a toddler level if not lower. I was able to recommend a door alarm so the family would know when he escaped and miracle or miracles, CPS had her install one and he has not been out alone since.

 

There would have been no way for the school he attended to know that he roamed outside at home. That is something only the neighbors can tell. PLEASE take the time to call. I am a former Special Education teacher and these kids are my peeps. They need the village to help keep them safe. They will not be removed unless it is dire. PLEASE PLEASE call. If that child gets hit by a car you will never forgive yourself.

[HeidiKC]

I don't know much about this stuff, but here are some things I'm thinking:

 

- yes, the bus driver is probably a mandated reporter...but if I suspected neglect (or even witnessed it), I would not just assume a mandated reporter was aware of it and reporting it and let myself off the hook. Yes, in this case you would HOPE the bus driver realizes this situation is not ok and is reporting it. But what if that bus driver isn't on top of his/her game? Don't assume this person is taking care of it. OR anyone at school. Hopefully and most likely they are, but you don't know...and if they have reported, it might also help if CPS has additional information from you about what you've observed

 

- If you're worried about being anonymous, can't you just at least call and ASK if you can make an anonymous call? And if so, can you convince your neighbor (fridge incident) to do so as well?

 

- I agree that you should only report the facts as you've witnessed them, but I don't think it would hurt to tell them about the fridge incident as long as you are sure that neighbor is a reliable source of info. You can just tell CPS that the neighbor isn't comfortable calling, but that you thought they should know. They can then do with the info as they like.

 

- I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It must be so confusing, stressful and heartbreaking. Good luck and thanks for caring about the kids.

[Joanne]

I don't know much about this stuff, but here are some things I'm thinking:

 

- yes, the bus driver is probably a mandated reporter...but if I suspected neglect (or even witnessed it), I would not just assume a mandated reporter was aware of it and reporting it and let myself off the hook. Yes, in this case you would HOPE the bus driver realizes this situation is not ok and is reporting it. But what if that bus driver isn't on top of his/her game? Don't assume this person is taking care of it. OR anyone at school. Hopefully and most likely they are, but you don't know...and if they have reported, it might also help if CPS has additional information from you about what you've observed

.

 

You misunderstand. This is not about the bus driver being a mandatory reporter. It's that if a special needs child can't go home/or get dropped off, there is automatic documentation, forms, protocol. If this goes on regularly, it AUTOMATICALLY gets escalated. It's not just on the bus driver having a "concern", it's that the bus driver must report it to superiors every time - simply to keep their job.

 

 

I agree on the bold; if they are on the CPS radar, more info and reason for concern helps.

[swellmomma]

Those of us who are not jumping on the "call" bandwagon are not in support of the situation. We are not offering to high five the family for their stellar performance.

 

But the OP, and subsequent posts, are full of a lot of assumption, hearsay, and even some unlikely events.

 

Exactly! Also I never said not to call, I said that CPS will not investigate based on hearsay typically, obviously there could be exceptions but generally speaking they won't. They also are more likely to contact the school first and speak to the boy etc before talking to the parents. I do not see his mental capacitiy being as low as the OP is speculating based on the things he does (sibling off bus, etc). I do believe it is lower than 16 but dimished mental capacity of a few years is not going to have cps pounding on their door. They will interview the children at school and talk to the teachers etc first. They may or may not investigate. My point was that it is unlikely CPS would investigate at all given that the vast majority of the "facts" posted were hearsay, and then things like a 16 yr old riding his bike on the street. Since it was already explained there is no other place to ride bikes I am wondering where else he is to ride. EVen the little kids in other families would be riding on the road would they not?

 

And FTR when it comes to teens riding on the road, in my town there is virtually no sidewalks, everyone rides on the road. I have come close to hitting several NT teens who are in the road dangerously. headphones on, not paying attention etc. Several who ride their bikes right down the center of the road so that you can not even get safely around them. If I called children's services for every teen I see riding dangerously on teh road I would be calling on a dozen families a year. That is the only real thing you have to report on as the rest is speculation and hearsay. I just don't see that as something that they will investigate.

 

That does not mean I am saying don't call. Nor am I saying the parents are doing things right, in fact I think they are making several mistakes. I just don't see it as a reportable offense.

[nd293]

I would call.

[JFSinIL]

I'd print out what you wrote here and take it to them, and ask if the family is on their radar. Your notes as an observant neighbor might be the straw that breaks the camel's back, if reports from the school/bus driver are being dismissed.

 

It might be a "nice" neighborhood to this family. After all - you are there ;-)

 

Maybe the parent is a doctor - with long hours and unable to supervise the kids? Still - unacceptable.

 

Here, the bus driver is not allowed to leave the bus for anything. An aide, if one is on the bus, can go to the door. Also - I have to sign a form stating that my son (now 20) is allowed to get off the bus himself and use his key to get in if I am not home. When he was younger, I had to sign a form stating that a responsible adult or older sibling (teenage) was home if I was not going to be there to let him in. What district is this, anyway?

[snowbeltmom]

Thank you all for trying to help me figure this all out.

 

I think my first step is going to be speaking with the bus driver. I am wondering if there is a law that stipulates that an adult needs to be home to supervise the child in the wheelchair before the bus driver can drop the child off.

 

If the law considers the 16 year old competent to supervise the other SN child, then it would not matter that an adult is not home in the afternoon. Then the situation would become a parenting issue (which would obviously mean that I just mind my own business), not a C.P.S. issue.

[snowbeltmom]

...

 

Here, the bus driver is not allowed to leave the bus for anything. An aide, if one is on the bus, can go to the door. Also - I have to sign a form stating that my son (now 20) is allowed to get off the bus himself and use his key to get in if I am not home. When he was younger, I had to sign a form stating that a responsible adult or older sibling (teenage) was home if I was not going to be there to let him in. What district is this, anyway?

 

I posted before I saw your response. I am wondering if the 16 year old is considered the responsible older sibling. If that is the case, then whether or not the parent is home in the afternoon does not matter (which was my main concern).

 

The only problem then is when the SN bus arrives first and no one is available to get the child off the bus. That situation would not be considered a safety issue.

 

The SN bus also has an aide on it. I am pretty sure it was the actual bus driver that went to the door, but I guess it could have also been the aide.

[TXMomof4]

Can you call for the police and call for a welfare check? I had a 5 yo and toddler that were regularly roaming the neighborhood when an 8 yo cousin was supposed to be watching them. After several incidents I called CPS and was instructed to call the police and request a check. That will get an immediate response and they can then pass it forward to CPS if they deem it necessary.

[momdm]

This does not look like a normal behaviour hence I would call. No harm in calling.

[silliness7]

Please be careful. This is all assumption.

We have no idea where the mother was. And there is no proof of anything. I wonder how the OP knows the 16 year old has the mental abilities of a toddler? He rides a bike, waits for a bus, and helps another sibling in a wheelchair. MY toddler can't do those things. I think the mental age is assumption, too. (Sounds like OP doesn't really know the family well enough to know a detail like this.)

 

 

I was also wondering how the OP knows the mental age of the 16yo since she hasn't had a conversation with these people - except about the dogs. And in light of *that* phone call I would not attempt to go over there and knock on the door. They sound scary!! But yes, I did read the OP and I didn't think that knocking on the door twice 2 years ago to say "welcome to the neighborhood" was sufficient.

[snowbeltmom]

I just got off the phone with Children's Protective Services. I began the conversation by stating that I am extremely nervous, have never made a phone call like this, and I am not sure I should be calling at all - that this may be just a difference of parenting styles. I told her that I would like to tell her my concerns, but if she doesn't think it is a problem to not open an investigation.

 

I told her what little I knew for sure, and that my main concern is that there may be no adult supervision when the child in the wheelchair gets off the bus in the afternoon.

 

I told her that the 16 year old boy definitely has cognitive delays, and I gave some specific examples that I have witnessed first-hand (that I didn't mention in this thread.) I told her what I had heard as hearsay about his cognitive ability, but she can easily verify his mental capacity with the school.

 

She asked me to tell her about the hearsay as well, which I did.

 

At the end of the conversation, she told me I did the right thing by calling. I asked her if she had had any other reports on this family, but she said she could not provide me with that information.

 

I really hate that I had to do this, but if I did nothing, and something happened to one of the kids, I would never had been able to live with myself.

[jplain]

:grouphug: I think you did the right thing.

[kitten18]

:hurray::grouphug: Good for you. I hope you feel some relief, you did the right thing!

[Joanne]

I just got off the phone with Children's Protective Services.

 

Good for you that you transcended your fear and called.

 

My prayer is the family gets the help they all might need.

[HeidiKC]

You misunderstand. This is not about the bus driver being a mandatory reporter. It's that if a special needs child can't go home/or get dropped off, there is automatic documentation, forms, protocol. If this goes on regularly, it AUTOMATICALLY gets escalated. It's not just on the bus driver having a "concern", it's that the bus driver must report it to superiors every time - simply to keep their job.

 

 

Gotcha! That makes sense. I missed that.

[Slipper]

I think you did the right thing. I'm glad the person you spoke with was understanding and sensitive to your own fears about making a report. CPS, as a general rule, are not in the business of tearing apart families and they will help this family if there are problems. (I realize that sometimes they aren't all that great, but I'm going with what I've typically seen from them).

[magnificent_baby]

Can you call for the police and call for a welfare check? I had a 5 yo and toddler that were regularly roaming the neighborhood when an 8 yo cousin was supposed to be watching them. After several incidents I called CPS and was instructed to call the police and request a check. That will get an immediate response and they can then pass it forward to CPS if they deem it necessary.

 

 

I was just going to suggest this as well. I listen to the local police scanner on occasion, and there are numerous calls for checking the welfare of children. Perhaps you could call next time you see the 16 year old on his bike in the street, and explain to dispatch that your concerns about his safety (mental capacity, appearance of no parental supervision, etc.)

 

Where I live, callers can request to "not be seen" so that the police do not show up at your door, asking for more info or taking a report. Not sure what kind of records are kept as far as who calls in, or how accessible this info is to the public though. At least you would be doing something.

 

 

What a difficult situation. :grouphug:

[magnificent_baby]

Sorry, I did not know that you called before I posted above.

 

Good for you, I think you did the right thing!! :grouphug:

[twinmami01]

I agree. You did the right thing. At least you can rest easy and know that you did what you could. At this point, its in the hands of the authorities. Its better to be safe than sorry.

[Joanne]

I think you did the right thing. I'm glad the person you spoke with was understanding and sensitive to your own fears about making a report. CPS, as a general rule, are not in the business of tearing apart families and they will help this family if there are problems. (I realize that sometimes they aren't all that great, but I'm going with what I've typically seen from them).

 

This is true. It's the horror stories we hear about (and, IMO, they get exaggerated). CPS, in general and as a rule, prefers to keep families together and get them help.

 

The kids' families I counseled last year typically had numerous chances to avail themselves to resources before the kids were removed. I did not come across one random, "take the kids" situation.