What to do: family member stealing from elderly.

[Guest Katia]

I know I'm not on this forum a lot anymore, but I really need some input in a situation I find myself in.

 

My father is in his mid-80s. Since my mother passed, he tried living alone for several years, but just couldn't stand being alone. So...the deal was that he would live with me for 6 months of the year, and then live with my sister for the other 6 months. We all agreed to this, because we all love my dad.

 

He lived with me for 6 months, where we cover all of his living expenses. Well, really, what is one more person in the house? He doesn't eat much and doesn't require much. He pays for his own medical expenses, clothing, and anything else he 'wants' to buy. He's not rich; has only a small pension from his 40 years of work, and social security. If he chose to give us money for groceries, we accepted it, but never asked him for money.

 

If you read any of my old posts, you would see that he did buy me new living room furniture (that I didn't need or want, LOL), but he makes his own decisions regarding his money. In my opinion, that is how it should be. It's his money, right?

 

Well......after his 6 months with me, we moved him out to my sister's house. Right away, she started telling him that she needed him to pay for certain bills, because they couldn't afford it, and he had the money and he didn't really 'need' it for anything. Therefore, he should give it to her. Because, after all, he was living with her. While I totally don't agree with this, I can understand that she might want him to help share expenses. Really, how much extra water, electricity, etc. can an old man use by himself?

 

Almost immediately, she started calling me telling me that his bank account was continually overdrawn, that he didn't understand how to deal with his money, and that we should 'take over' his account. I managed to talk her through this for over 5 months, and several times, my husband actually deposited money into my dad's account so that it would balance. When I talked to my sister, she made it sound like he was just an old man that didn't understand money. When I talked to my dad, he said that she took his debit card and used it whenever she wanted to, and then whenever he used any money (like to buy food or a DVD) his account would overdraw and she would blame HIM. For using his own money!

 

So......he moved back with us just this month. He should have had enough money in his account to pay for his moving expenses, but he was so upset to find that he could only pay for part of the move. DH wasn't concerned and paid for the rest, because we wanted him with us. We figured we'd call his bank and find the problem once he was with us. And we did, unfortunately.

 

My sister decided to use his account, without his conscent or knowledge, to pay for over $600 of her bills that month (electric, phone and cable), and THEN she took a blank check of his and wrote it to herself (signed his name) for $500. She tried to lie about all of this and make it seem like the rental place had taken the money from his account, but we called the bank and got copies of all of this. When confronted, she admitted she had used his money, BUT, she said she needed it and he didn't. Therefore, it was ok for her to take it.

 

I see this as her stealing from my dad. More to the point, my dad sees this as her stealing from him. He doesn't even want to talk to her anymore, and refuses to ever go back to her house again. I can understand why he feels that way. It seems he was right that for 6 months, she was taking all of his money and then blaming it on him, just trying to get full control of his account.

 

Now....I don't really know what to do. Well, I do in a way. Dh helped my dad to open a new bank account, helped him to transfer his deposits to his new account, and we closed his old account (that sister had access to). So, she can't steal any more of his money.

 

But, she is my only sister and I love her very, very much. I'm having trouble even knowing how to talk to her about this. She really needs to pay that money back to Dad to make this even close to 'right', but she has no money; that's why she took it in the first place. Now, I have a father that doesn't want to talk to her and he doesn't want me to talk about him or his 'business' to her. And if I do that, there will be even more hurt feeling all around.

 

I know she was wrong. I know she stole from him. And I don't feel it's my place to judge her. But...she's our only 'family', you know? How do we reconcil this? Especially when she feels she was ok to take his money? Ack! I am in a pickle and maybe I'm too close to the situation to see the obvious solution.

 

Any insights or advice?

[Trish]

I'm so sorry! What a tough spot to be in.

 

But, it isn't your job to fix the relationship between your sis and dad. That's between them. And if your dad doesn't want you to get involved, maybe you shouldn't. You're a good daughter for doing all you do for him, and you have a forgiving heart to not overly judge your sister when that has to be sorely tempting.

 

Eh, I'm an oldest, I like to "fix" things but maybe just take the lead from your dad, for now, since he's of sound mind.

 

I'll pray for your family situation!

[Parrothead]

Do what your dad wants. He is the injured party.

 

Send your sister a nice card for Christmas and don't discuss this situation with her.

 

I hate to say it, but with the attitude of "he doesn't need it anyway." She is never going to see where she was wrong.

 

Oh, and don't send your dad to your sister's house in six months.

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I hope someone here can think of something, because I can only see two choices. Sweep it under the carpet at least as long as Dad is around, or tell her she's d*** lucky Dad isn't pressing charges and how sorry you are she's chosen to break the family with her fraud and theft.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Rosie

[Iucounu]

I'd personally report the crimes. Stealing from a parent is loathsome.

[gardenmom5]

It IS your place to protect your father from being taken advantage of - even if it's your sister. Your father admits she is stealing from him. THAT will be very helpful. (my brother was taking terrible advantage of my mother, but she wouldn' do anything that "might make him upset" by telling him where to shove it.)

 

Honestly, if you have the check your sister wrote on his account and forged his name, and deposited in her account - I'd contact the police and bring charges for theft and ID fraud. (and then there is the stolen debit card . . . ) But I don't consider being "family" an excuse for tolerating this type of behavior.

 

contact an attorney asap to get a trust/PoA set up to protect him from your sister in the future. what assests he has, need to be watched in case he needs greater care than you can offer in the future. I assure you, if she's like this now, she'll be FAR worse when he's gone.

[tex-mex]

Wow. That is a tough situation.

 

I'm glad your dad realizes it needed to stop and you all made a new bank account. Your sister cannot have access to his funds based on her behavior. Period. She cannot be trusted.

 

This happened to my mother with her brother (my uncle) back in the early 70's when she was newly divorced and with us three kids on her own. Her brother had access the account with her permission -- one time she discovered he had stripped all of the money out of her account. It was a huge war -- uncles and aunts took sides. Grandparents were involved. It got ugly. They did not speak for years. Mostly everyone sided with my mom over it as they saw it as theft. Taking advantage of a sibling who was helpless.

 

Recently, had this situation with hubby's family. Only the opposite. FIL gives and gives financially but uses it as manipulation to get his kids to be under his control. If they balk or do things he does not approve, out comes the money card. Power can be ugly. Temptation can be dangerous. I suggest your sister never be allowed access as executor of her dad's estate if he dies -- trust has been broken.

Edited December 17, 2011 by tex-mex

[kalanamak]

Do what your dad wants. He is the injured party.

 

Send your sister a nice card for Christmas and don't discuss this situation with her.

 

I hate to say it, but with the attitude of "he doesn't need it anyway." She is never going to see where she was wrong.

 

Oh, and don't send your dad to your sister's house in six months.

 

:iagree:

 

I take it he has only the two of you sibs? If I were your dad, and had any assents to leave behind in a will, I'd tot up what she took, subtract my share of electricity, etc, and then subtract THAT amount from the half the sister would get and donate it "in her name" to a lovely, uncontroversial charity, like spaying cats. A polite message to her from beyond the grave.

 

Aside from that I'd try to be civil, but never trust her as far as I could spit. It would be hard to be unemotional about it, because I'd feel, on some level, like a failed parent. It would depress more than anger me.

 

For you ... pass the bean dip (and don't trust her as far as you can spit), because I'm quite sure she feels she's done no wrong, and confrontation over it would only make a painful rift.

 

IMO, HTH, and :grouphug:

[mktkcb]

As gently as possible....yes, it is your place to judge her. You don't have to be mean or harsh about it, but judge? as in "have a thoughtful decided opinion about"? Of course. It was wrong. She knew it. Everybody knows it. I don't see any reason why you should have to discuss anything pertaining to your dad with your sister. She's the one who "made the bed", so to speak. Let her lie in it. Your dad has made a reasonable request. Honor it. You seem to be more worried about hurting the feelings of the perpetrator, than you do about respecting the feelings of the victim. Honor your dad's wishes, and if you sister gets her feelings hurt, oh well. It was HER decision to screw up. Oh, and she's not your only family. Your dad is family too. Find some honorable friends to be family-ish with. Sounds like your sister sort of tore up her family card. Now if she decides to grovel, pay back, etc. then of course forgive.

[endurancerider]

Honestly, your sis should be grateful that your Dad isn't pressing charges against her for theft, check fraud, and identity theft. She probably needs someone to tell her like it is, that she is so way out of bounds that she can't even see the line of right from wrong where she is. Maybe this is or isn't your place, depending upon your relationship with her.

 

That being said, I'm sorry that you are stuck in the middle of this situation but happy that your Dad is in a safe environment living with you again.

[Jennifer3141]

:iagree:

 

I take it he has only the two of you sibs? If I were your dad, and had any assents to leave behind in a will, I'd tot up what she took, subtract my share of electricity, etc, and then subtract THAT amount from the half the sister would get and donate it "in her name" to a lovely, uncontroversial charity, like spaying cats. A polite message to her from beyond the grave.

 

Aside from that I'd try to be civil, but never trust her as far as I could spit. It would be hard to be unemotional about it, because I'd feel, on some level, like a failed parent. It would depress more than anger me.

 

For you ... pass the bean dip (and don't trust her as far as you can spit), because I'm quite sure she feels she's done no wrong, and confrontation over it would only make a painful rift.

 

IMO, HTH, and :grouphug:

 

:iagree::iagree:I totally agree and it would be hard for me to want to keep the peace over this. How will you ever be able to trust your sister again and isn't trust a part of loving someone??

[Parrothead]

Oh, I need to add that you/he need to get a copy of his credit report and make sure she hasn't gotten credit cards or loans in his name.

 

The only way to fix that, if it has happened, is to file a police report. The creditors and the credit reporting agencies will need that report to clear his name.

[tex-mex]

Honestly, your sis should be grateful that your Dad isn't pressing charges against her for theft, check fraud, and identity theft. She probably needs someone to tell her like it is, that she is so way out of bounds that she can't even see the line of right from wrong where she is. Maybe this is or isn't your place, depending upon your relationship with her.

 

That being said, I'm sorry that you are stuck in the middle of this situation but happy that your Dad is in a safe environment living with you again.

:iagree::iagree:

[Murphy101]

I agree with everyone else. Take precautions to protect your father (finance and care concerns should it include her ever again. And he shouldn't ever have to live with her again. I'd likely have an extremely difficult time ever speaking to her again about anything more important than the weather. I would just never be able to trust her again. Love her? Yes. Trust? She pretty much trampled on that beyond repair.

[Impish]

Do what your dad wants. He is the injured party.

 

Send your sister a nice card for Christmas and don't discuss this situation with her.

 

I hate to say it, but with the attitude of "he doesn't need it anyway." She is never going to see where she was wrong.

 

Oh, and don't send your dad to your sister's house in six months.

:iagree:

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I hope someone here can think of something, because I can only see two choices. Sweep it under the carpet at least as long as Dad is around, or tell her she's d*** lucky Dad isn't pressing charges and how sorry you are she's chosen to break the family with her fraud and theft.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Rosie

:iagree:

I'd also talk to your Dad about you guys having POA, and NOT including your sister.

[plansrme]

But I don't consider being "family" an excuse for tolerating this type of behavior.

 

Remember having to write sentences as a punishment in school? "I will not forget my homework, I will not forget my homework," that kind of thing? Please write the above a thousand times. Then write it another thousand.

 

I would have nothing to do with this sister unless she repents and repays. I know you love her, but she is a thief and cannot be trusted with your father. Love her from very, very far away.

 

Terri

[tomandlorih]

Honestly, your sis should be grateful that your Dad isn't pressing charges against her for theft, check fraud, and identity theft. She probably needs someone to tell her like it is, that she is so way out of bounds that she can't even see the line of right from wrong where she is. Maybe this is or isn't your place, depending upon your relationship with her.

 

That being said, I'm sorry that you are stuck in the middle of this situation but happy that your Dad is in a safe environment living with you again.

 

 

Oh, I need to add that you/he need to get a copy of his credit report and make sure she hasn't gotten credit cards or loans in his name.

 

The only way to fix that, if it has happened, is to file a police report. The creditors and the credit reporting agencies will need that report to clear his name.

 

:iagree: AND :grouphug: Glad your dad is safe with you again.. but you need to cover all bases to keep HIM safe. BTW, IMHO, "judging" someone (in the bad sense) is when you condemn someone for something that may go against what you believe but you could be wrong. In this case, what she did is definitely and clearly illegal and she could do jail time. Clear case of right and wrong.. not your own personal opinion. Doesn't mean you don't love her and aren't sick inside that someone you love could do this to someone else you love. :crying: :grouphug:

[Iucounu]

Call me crazy, but I think the sister actually deserves punishment. She took advantage of the weak by exerting undue influence. This is not a petty matter that I could look past. Nor do I think that one could not love the sister from afar while she's in jail, doing community service, etc.

 

I would have no qualms whatsoever in reporting a family member for victimizing someone in this way. And unfortunately, I happen to know that this sort of crime is widespread due to easy opportunity for exploitation, yet often goes unreported for the exact reason that those who learn about it are often loath to make a report.

 

Victimizing a family member, especially a parent in old age, is more wrongful than victimizing a random person-- and I'd most certainly report a family member for victimizing someone else in this serious way. I also think the OP has to tread very carefully in what she does, to avoid acting as an accessory after the fact. She certainly shouldn't do anything that could arguably reduce the chance of the sister being brought to justice.

 

OP, I think you need to consult an attorney on issues related to protecting yourself from fallout over this, and also the best way to protect your father. I'd hate to hear of your sister winning a will contest after your dad passes away. I also think you should encourage your dad to see an attorney.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Iucounu

[Trish]

Oh, I need to add that you/he need to get a copy of his credit report and make sure she hasn't gotten credit cards or loans in his name.

 

The only way to fix that, if it has happened, is to file a police report. The creditors and the credit reporting agencies will need that report to clear his name.

 

:iagree: On top of that, you might want to think about one of those services that monitors your dad's credit report so that no one can open an account, get a loan, or get a credit card in his name without him (and you) knowing about it.

[brehon]

Your sister stole from your dad. Full stop. You can love your sister and absolutely be repulsed by her actions and behaviour. Whether or not your dad presses charges (and, believe me, he more than has reason to) is really up to him.

 

My advice, FWIW, is to protect your dad now. You and your dh took a great first step in helping him set up a new banking account your sister won't have access to. Talk with your dad about having him draw up a DPOA and an MPOA. He should also review his will and perhaps talk to an estate attorney about whatever his intentions might be. One doesn't need to be rich and have lots of assets to benefit from this kind of legal advice. Regardless of whether or not your dad wants to update/review his will (and I'm not suggesting he should cut anyone out -- attorneys recommend reviewing one's will every few years) he really needs to have some protective measures in place. Hence the DPOA and MPOA. He should also name an executor (if he hasn't already) in his will. Doing this now while he's still mentally competent will be infinitely easier. This will keep your sister from stealing any more of his money if he becomes mentally incapacitated/when he passes.

 

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

[Denisemomof4]

Do what your dad wants. He is the injured party.

 

Send your sister a nice card for Christmas and don't discuss this situation with her.

 

I hate to say it, but with the attitude of "he doesn't need it anyway." She is never going to see where she was wrong.

 

Oh, and don't send your dad to your sister's house in six months.

 

:iagree:

 

Definitely honor your father's request not to talk about him or his business to her. I can't imagine how hurt he is. I do hope he can stay with you and not have to go to your sister's house again.

 

You love your sister. In time you will forgive her and move one. Always remember, though, her character and her morals. Don't trust her. That was a really crappy thing of her to do, and she is NOT entitled to his money. I don't understand this sense of entitlement I see all too often.

[Lisbeth]

I always say this, but people need to be trained how they are to treat others. For some, this means they will try as much crap as you' ll tolerate. I believe this requires a harsh response. Taking advantage of an elderly parent is to me a shockingly low thing to do. - I am very protective of my parents and it would be a "heck has no fury" situation. I have zero capacity for standing by while the weak are abused...especially MY weak, ya know? There needs to be consequences. Sorry you are in the middle of this.

[TravelingChris]

I agree with all the others= you need to judge her. There is no question that she stole from your father. She thinks it is justified but it isn't. Since your father doesn't want to press charges, don't. But he can't be going back to her to live. She is unreliable and a thief. I concur with others that he needs to get his credit checked and continue to get it monitored.

[Grover]

Oh my goodness, I can't believe anyone would do that to their parent!

 

I agree with those who say she's very lucky your dad doesn't want to press charges - and I think you need to respect that, but I'd never be able to trust her again, and I think you need to be making sure she can't do anything like this again, including credit checks, POA and anything else your dad needs to do.

[Farrar]

Call me crazy, but I think the sister actually deserves punishment. She took advantage of the weak by exerting undue influence. This is not a petty matter that I could look past. Nor do I think that one could not love the sister from afar while she's in jail, doing community service, etc.

 

If she wants to be able to save the relationship with her sister (which it sounds like she does) then I don't think that's really a very good move. If, after she takes some of the steps suggested here, the sister keeps trying or finding ways into the dad's bank account, then that might be a point at which to involve the authorities, but sometimes, even when someone does something loathsome, I think it's best to back off and protect oneself instead of seeking revenge or trying to continue the hurt.

 

I would bring it up with the sister. Not saying anything feels passive aggressive. I think the OP has to say something. For one thing, it seems unlikely the father will go live with the sister again. There has to be explanations. I would try to be calm and simply tell the sister you love her, but you feel like you understand what she did and believe it was a violation of your father. Then just try to de-escalate the drama that's sure to occur. In the short term, it seems like the relationship will have to suffer, but maybe the sister will get it later on. All you can really hope for.

[Remudamom]

She's a thief. She belongs behind bars. She's ****ed lucky your dad isn't taking action against her.

[Stacy in NJ]

to think about 6 months from now. I imagine you want your Dad's and sister's relationship mended so that he can return to live with her in 6 months. If there is no reconciliation than he's with you permanently.

 

To resolve the situation you will eventually need to confront your sister. Can you propose some financial deal between your dad and sister? Can he pay her an agreed upon "rent". She shouldn't under any circumstances have easy access to his accounts, though.

 

You may have to come to terms with the fact that he's going to be with you full time. The bad feelings may run to deep.

[justamouse]

Oh, I need to add that you/he need to get a copy of his credit report and make sure she hasn't gotten credit cards or loans in his name.

 

The only way to fix that, if it has happened, is to file a police report. The creditors and the credit reporting agencies will need that report to clear his name.

:iagree:

[Bang!Zoom!]

Hold the phone sister-girlfriend...

 

This is all assuming something doesn't happen to you tomorrow and your Dad is left to fend for himself.

 

Things happen.

 

Dad needs a lawyer. Now.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Hold the phone sister-girlfriend...

 

This is all assuming something doesn't happen to you tomorrow and your Dad is left to fend for himself.

 

Things happen.

 

Dad needs a lawyer. Now.

 

:iagree: He has to be protected, for the rest of his life.

 

I'm so sorry your beloved sister has done this terrible thing. :grouphug:

[tex-mex]

to think about 6 months from now. I imagine you want your Dad's and sister's relationship mended so that he can return to live with her in 6 months. If there is no reconciliation than he's with you permanently.

 

To resolve the situation you will eventually need to confront your sister. Can you propose some financial deal between your dad and sister? Can he pay her an agreed upon "rent". She shouldn't under any circumstances have easy access to his accounts, though.

 

You may have to come to terms with the fact that he's going to be with you full time. The bad feelings may run to deep.

Um. Hello???

 

The sister has lost all possibility of having the father living with her. She cannot be trusted. What took place is not only elder abuse but a crime, legally. The father should think of a retirement home before going back to live with that daughter. And yes, an executor (the OP or her kids) needs to be listed ASAP on a will, living trust, and POA.

[Cammie]

In many states what she did is enough for an elder abuse charge. But, in the spirit of family harmony I wouldn't go there just yet. Sounds to me like you have done all the right things and if you take the extra precaution of monitoring his credit reports that would be great. I would let her know that he has decided to monitor his reports (might act as a deterrent).

 

Sounds like your sister must be in a pretty desparate situation. Perhaps, to get over this current problem, your dad can consider it a "loan" and work out repayment options with your sister. I get that she doesn't have much but she should be able to come up with $50 a month in an effort to restore the relationship.

 

She may be also planning what she is going to do with any inheritence. Let her know that dad is so angry he will not leave her anything if she doesn't fix this soon. That should light a fire under her.

 

Good luck.

[Denisemomof4]

I just want to point out that I think you being POA is a good idea, but it will cause major stress and upset because your sister will likely question Every Single Thing, harbor resentment and anger, etc.

 

Ask me how I know.:glare:

 

If your father chooses to remove your sister from his will entirely, then there will be no issue for you. She can get mad all she wants but oh well.

 

My sister is still causing problems with my parent's trust years after their deaths. I wish she would get over her greedy self.

[StephanieZ]

IMHO, you should not reconcile with your sister. You should cut her loose. She was stealing from you dad, and maybe worse yet, in order to cover her tracks, she was trying to make him (and everyone) think he was losing his marbles.

 

I think this is absolutely horrible. I think you should and MUST judge her. You owe it to your dad to stick up for him. You owe it to yourself to stand up for what is right.

 

She stole.

 

If your dad is OK without the bit she stole, then you don't HAVE to pursue it with the police right now. But, I do think it is imperative that you preserve all the evidence of what she did -- and make sure she knows you've done so, and that you will turn her in to the cops if she ever steals another nickle from him.

 

And you need to make sure she NEVER again has any access to his accounts. You should be able to set up his financial accounts to send you duplicate COPIES of his statements every month. For evermore, you need to review these statements every month to make sure she (or anyone else) doesn't steal from him again.

 

This is a sadly common form of ELDER ABUSE and is just as illegal and immoral as child abuse IMHO.

 

Your poor dad. How incredibly heartbreaking to be betrayed by a child who you raised and loved and trusted.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. It must be devastating for you as well.

[Mary in VA]

It IS your place to protect your father from being taken advantage of - even if it's your sister. Your father admits she is stealing from him. THAT will be very helpful. (my brother was taking terrible advantage of my mother, but she wouldn' do anything that "might make him upset" by telling him where to shove it.)

 

Honestly, if you have the check your sister wrote on his account and forged his name, and deposited in her account - I'd contact the police and bring charges for theft and ID fraud. (and then there is the stolen debit card . . . ) But I don't consider being "family" an excuse for tolerating this type of behavior.

 

contact an attorney asap to get a trust/PoA set up to protect him from your sister in the future. what assests he has, need to be watched in case he needs greater care than you can offer in the future. I assure you, if she's like this now, she'll be FAR worse when he's gone.

 

:iagree:I think you need to legally document EVERYTHING your sister did and do what you can to protect your dad financially. Consulting an attorney would be the first thing on my list!

 

Mary

[Stacy in NJ]

You don't know what the OP intends with regards to the future care of their father. It might be absolutely clear to you that the father won't return, but that might not be her judgement.

[HS Mom in NC]

Here the State of AZ takes elder abuse very seriously and usually aggressively prosecuted.

 

Your sister should be prosecuted. I think you should report it immediately. Yes, you can judge someone for doing this. It's pretty universally accepted that taking advantage of those most vulnerable in society is deeply offensive to God-and a parent who cared for her no less!

 

Anyone who would steal from an elderly parent might do something else illegal. By the way, does she have a substance abuse problem? A compulsive spending problem? A gambling problem?

 

Your sister will probably feel alienated from the family. Life is full of consequences. I'm sure she'll blame you for being unreasonable, unfair, judgmental, blah blah blah. So what? Who cares what an elder/parent abuser thinks about anything?

 

Once she gets out from behind bars she can still come to family functions, but she can't have anything to do with anyone's finances other than her own ever again. She can never be a caregiver for an adult dependent ever again.

 

I once told my kids, after a particularly interesting episode of Judge Judy, "If you go around breaking the law, know that I love you just the same as if you didn't break the law, but God gave us government to prosecute lawbreakers. My advice is to confess to what you did and take the punishment you deserve without complaining about it or making excuses. Call me if you ever lose your mind and do something that gets you arrested but understand this, I will not bail you out. I will sit in the courtroom, I will still love you, but I will not bail you out."

 

Then I asked them why they thought I would take this view. They understood it perfectly. My middle daughter (about 10 at the time) said, "Well, if you won't listen to what Mom and Dad taught you about right and wrong, maybe you'll listen after you're stuck in jail."

[butterflymommy]

If she really was using the money for her utilities etc. during the time he was living there, I would take it more or less in stride. We're not talking about huge amounts of money here, and even if she did this without any of his consent (you weren't there at the time, maybe he did agree to help with utility bill?), it still went to his room and board by paying for the household to be maintained.

 

For him to have comparable care would be upward to $1000 a week for 24 hour live in home health aides. If you look at it in that light, it may not seem so bad. I'm not saying it was ok, or that he should move back there, but I don't see this as a really serious case of elder abuse. :grouphug:

[Iucounu]

If she wants to be able to save the relationship with her sister (which it sounds like she does) then I don't think that's really a very good move.

The illegality trumps any such considerations. The OP's sister is a criminal, and it's no good to help such a person escape justice. Your logic could work the same way for any crime-- as long as it's a family member and one wants a future relationship, better keep it hidden... The appropriate response to such criminal acts is to report them, not tell the criminal that you love them and will keep their crimes hidden.

[Iucounu]

If she really was using the money for her utilities etc. during the time he was living there, I would take it more or less in stride. We're not talking about huge amounts of money here, and even if she did this without any of his consent (you weren't there at the time, maybe he did agree to help with utility bill?), it still went to his room and board by paying for the household to be maintained.

 

For him to have comparable care would be upward to $1000 a week for 24 hour live in home health aides. If you look at it in that light, it may not seem so bad. I'm not saying it was ok, or that he should move back there, but I don't see this as a really serious case of elder abuse. :grouphug:

What's the principle here, that it's not theft to fraudulently take money from someone you've allowed to stay with you, until the amount becomes greater than theoretical room and board would have been? :confused:

[Murphy101]

If she really was using the money for her utilities etc. during the time he was living there, I would take it more or less in stride. We're not talking about huge amounts of money here, and even if she did this without any of his consent (you weren't there at the time, maybe he did agree to help with utility bill?), it still went to his room and board by paying for the household to be maintained.

 

For him to have comparable care would be upward to $1000 a week for 24 hour live in home health aides. If you look at it in that light, it may not seem so bad. I'm not saying it was ok, or that he should move back there, but I don't see this as a really serious case of elder abuse. :grouphug:

 

What's the principle here, that it's not theft to fraudulently take money from someone you've allowed to stay with you, until the amount becomes greater than theoretical room and board would have been? :confused:

 

:glare::confused::001_huh: yeahhhhh. Um NO!

 

I don't give a flyi leap what his room and board could have been elsewhere or what she used the money for.

 

She STOLE it.

She LIED about stealing it.

She trying to make it seem he was mentally incompetent to cover her tracks and grounds to take control of all his money from him.

And I don't think it was all that small an amount of money either. ($1100+ in less than 6 months is no small amount to most elderly people or us either!)

 

I think what she did was abusive, dangerous to his care, and I think it wound be abusive to tell him he ever has to live with her again or trust her to take proper care of him.

 

Holy smoley... Can't believe it's even a consideration that it wasn't all that big a deal or ok to send him back.

[BillieBoy]

Wow,

I have to put in my 2 cents here. This is wrong, wrong, wrong. In Washington State there is an agency through our State Social Services that is called Adult Protective Services. It operates similar to Child protective services, but for the elderly.

 

Calls are totally anonymous. I knew/know of a similar situation with an elderly female neighbor where we used to live, except it was her caretaker that was taking advantage of her. The court ended up appointing her a financial guardian, picked from a volunteer pool of CPA's and attorneys. Now all her monthly expenses are carefully monitored for any funny business and all major purchases have to go through the guardian. They can not flat out refuse, it is still her money, but they are now aware and can make note of it. At her age and state, this was the best option to keep her assets safe.

 

Perhaps, you could look into it. It keeps things neutral with no sibling involvement.

 

I feel what your sister is doing is wrong and it should not continue. I would never allow my parent to be taken advantage of, even if they thought it was okay.

 

Sorry to rant....:blushing: I just feel strongly about anyone being abused, and this is clearly is abuse.

[Smiles2share]

She not only stole from your dad, but she also stole from your family as well. In saying that "He didn't need it" and taking the money she is stealing from any money that will be left once he passes away and that is usually shared between siblings depending on the will.

 

Even if things are going smoothly in 6 months I would say that he should never live there. I know you love your sister, but people change all the time and if she thinks taking the money is ok when she "needs" it, then no telling what her thought pattern will be in 6 months. It could escalate to physically harming him. I hate to say that because I can tell this is hard enough for you already, but you see it all the time in the world.

 

So sorry that you are dealing with this and that your heart is probably breaking.

 

Blessings to you, your family, and your father. Grace and Mercy to your sister.

[Catwoman]

I see this as her stealing from my dad. More to the point, my dad sees this as her stealing from him. He doesn't even want to talk to her anymore, and refuses to ever go back to her house again. I can understand why he feels that way. It seems he was right that for 6 months, she was taking all of his money and then blaming it on him, just trying to get full control of his account.

 

Sorry to say this, but your sister sounds like a real weasel.

 

But, she is my only sister and I love her very, very much. I'm having trouble even knowing how to talk to her about this. She really needs to pay that money back to Dad to make this even close to 'right', but she has no money; that's why she took it in the first place. Now, I have a father that doesn't want to talk to her and he doesn't want me to talk about him or his 'business' to her. And if I do that, there will be even more hurt feeling all around.

 

I know she was wrong. I know she stole from him. And I don't feel it's my place to judge her.

 

I'll try to put this as gently as I can -- you know she was wrong, yet you're making excuses for her.

 

Just because she didn't have money, did not entitle her to steal it from your father.

 

And don't forget -- she didn't just lie to him about it; she lied to you and your dh as well.

 

Personally, I would be livid and I would probably never trust this sister ever again. If she would lie to and steal from her own family, she is not a nice person.

 

Sorry you have to deal with this. For me, it wouldn't be about the money; it would be about the deceit.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Aggie]

Not only do I agree with turning her in, but I would tell all my kids, in time, what she did so they don't fall prey to her conniving ways. If she doesn't have any qualms about stealing from her own father, no one is safe around her.

 

This, imo, is not something that should be kept between you, your dh and your dad. :(

[gardenmom5]

Oh, I need to add that you/he need to get a copy of his credit report and make sure she hasn't gotten credit cards or loans in his name.

 

The only way to fix that, if it has happened, is to file a police report. The creditors and the credit reporting agencies will need that report to clear his name.

:iagree: excellent suggestion.

 

ID theft among family members happens more often than people realize.

[gardenmom5]

Sounds like your sister must be in a pretty desparate situation.

 

 

Perhaps, to get over this current problem, your dad can consider it a "loan" and work out repayment options with your sister. I get that she doesn't have much but she should be able to come up with $50 a month in an effort to restore the relationship.

 

 

.

 

Not necessarily - all she has to be doing is living beyond her means. $150k per year wasn't enough for my brother (I've seen his tax returns). He kept trying to get power over my mothers money until everything hit the fan four weeks before she died/etc. now that she is deceased, he's trying to get a larger share of her estate and has gone so far as to talk to lawyers about it. (equal just isn't enough for him. Fortunatly we set things up more than two years before her health failed to prevent and control this garbage.)

 

 

seriously, thinking the sister will payback a "loan" is naive. the sister thinks this money was "owed to her" for caring for her elderly father that she INVITED into her home. she has no remorse, and isn't going to change, so she must be contained to prevent her doing more damage.

eta: my brother whined to my mother about needing money . . . .

Edited December 18, 2011 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

The illegality trumps any such considerations. The OP's sister is a criminal, and it's no good to help such a person escape justice. Your logic could work the same way for any crime-- as long as it's a family member and one wants a future relationship, better keep it hidden... The appropriate response to such criminal acts is to report them, not tell the criminal that you love them and will keep their crimes hidden.

 

hmmm, seems that attitude was why incest/child-abuse stayed in the family closet for so many years . . . .

[MtnTeaching]

Your poor dad. How incredibly heartbreaking to be betrayed by a child who you raised and loved and trusted.

 

He works for years, sacrificing for and raising his daughters. Then, when he needs them most, one of them takes advantage of him, steals from him, and shows no remorse.

 

That must feel like a real kick in the pants to him. No wonder he doesn't want you to get involved.

 

:grouphug: to you both and to your dh who sounds like a stand-up guy.

[Kathryn]

I'd report her to authorities. What she did isn't just hurtful, it's a CRIME, one that you are now covering up. Not only that, she has no remorse. You have every right to judge what she did. Absent reporting her, I'd tell her that the only reason I wasn't reporting her was out of respect for dad. I'd tell her how disgusting her actions were, and when she admitted them and made restitution, I'd be happy to be cordial again. I'd tell her we'd be monitoring his credit. I'd never make him go back to her. And I'd discuss with him the need to further protect himself with medical and financial powers of attorney that specifically address WHY she has no right of determination in what happens with his life or finances.