NY Times Student Opinion page: Would You Want to be Homeschooled?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My land. The comments. Read 'em and weep.

[Harriet Vane]

Read it and wept. Why oh why does everyone assume homeschoolers never socialize?

[zookeeper]

The comments are all about socialization. :001_huh:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My favorite comment was from the kid who had homeschooled for two hours and nearly died from the isolation. What does that even mean? LOL

[higginszoo]

Read it and wept. Why oh why does everyone assume homeschoolers never socialize?

This, and these are high school students in the replies, I assume?

I think that I might be too hard on my fifth grader when it comes to things like grammar, spelling, punctuation by ps standards. ;)

In the right sidebar, they have some views that dissent from the majority, mostly by homeschooled teens. The difference is amazing and definitely reinforces my homeschooling decision (though by the teen years, we've given our children the ability to make their own educational choices, and one is leaning toward ps.)

Edited November 12, 2011 by higginszoo

[Jan in SC]

I think I might "sugar code" my children today! :lol:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

This, and these are high school students in the replies, I assume?

I think that I might be too hard on my fifth grader when it comes to things like grammar, spelling, punctuation by ps standards. ;)

 

The homeschoolers show up and take over by the end of page 3. Talk about a contrast!

 

Here's a sampling of the comments by public-schooled teens:

 

In my opinion, i would never turn to home schooling. When you are home schooled, you automaticly loose the whole social experience of school. In the real world you need to be social. Otherwise you’re going to get know where. I understand that the learning education might be to an advantage while homeschooling because its all one on one and you are the only student reciveing all the help you need whenever you need it. I would never home school my child because I would be holding them back from friends and the social life they will need in the feature. I would never even consider home schooling.

 

 

 

I don’t think homeschooling can prepare children for a real world because when your home schooled, you’re away from the real world and you probably wouldn’t know how to communicate with other people. School is where you learn how to work with others and communicate but if you don’t have no one else but your parents with this type of education, it would be hard when they release you into the real world. But if you’re home schooled, you wouldn’t have to be pressured with drugs. I also disagree with the writers mother when she says that working at one’s own pace and following one’s genuine interests is the best way to learn.

 

 

I would never want to be home schooled because you are not able to socalize with your friends at school. If you dont meet or talk to anyone, people might start to make fun of you because you have no friends that hang out with you. You might be smarter if you are home schooled but you still will not know how to make good friends if you get accepted into a college where you are met with other kids. If your are home schooled and you go to college you will fell as if the class is going too slow or if you know something before other kids then you will be frusterated that you are learning the same thing and nothing new. Overall I think that home schooling is not something that you should consider because you are not social with other kids, and later on in college you will not learn as much as you should be learning.

 

 

 

No I would not like to be home schooled because then I wouldn’t have a chance to meet any of my friends that I know now and I wouldn’t be going to the awsome school that i’m at now. I also think I wouldn’t be able to stand my mom for the six hours.

 

 

 

I would not want to be homeschooled because I would like to be friends with people. I would also want to play sports in highschool. It is better to get out of the house then to be locked in.

 

 

no, because is boring

 

 

I think I wouldn’t want to be home schooled because then I wouldn’t have any friends and I wouldn’t have a life and just stay home all the time. I also need to get into a good college to have a career and I think if I’m home schooled than I wouldn’t be able to do that at all because now for college even if you have a high average and you wouldn’t be able to get into a good college because you need to be involved in school such as clubs and after school activities. Although if I was home- schooled it would probably be because I am an actress or movie star.

 

 

 

When you think about it, home schooling only encorages children to stay at home, instead of preparing them to leave. It gets them used to the comfortable living arangements at home more than usual. Other then that, if they do go outside, they have no personal confrontations with other children, so they will not easily develope speaking to other people, which means no friends, no girl/boyfriend, no husbands or wives, their lives would be pretty much empty.

 

 

I think homeschooling is dumb. I think homeschooling doesn’t prepare kids for the real world. they don’t learn how to socialize with other people. Some parents may sugar code the kids. So they might not know everything there suppose to know. no i do not agree.

 

[Aelwydd]

Well, for public schooled students, being home schooled would mean a disconnect with many, if no most, of their ps friends. That being the case, of course most ps students would cite socialization at the main drawback.

 

And to be frank, my ds doesn't get nearly as much socialization now as he did when in ps. He does have his hockey friends, and his cousins, but most school days he doesn't get to interact with other kids, unless we take him to the park or whatever.

 

The reduction in socialization has benefits as well as drawbacks though. He isn't nearly as likely to get bullied, obviously. And also, he's been very healthy!

 

The point is, I don't think most home schooled kids get as much interaction with other kids their age as ps schooled students. But, that doesn't mean that they don't get enough socialization.

 

But, if you're asking the average ps student, or person who attended ps (which this article is doing), of course they are FTMP going to feel that hs'ing represents a huge setback in terms of meeting and learning alongside many other people.

 

FTR, I'm exceedingly grateful I was NOT hs'ed. My parents could not have given me as good an education, largely because they were and are impulsive, scatterbrained, and not inclined to reasoning. I love them, but they would have ruined my education.

[Mommyfaithe]

Who taught these kids to write?? Oh my! I wept. I wept that there wasn't a logical argument in the bunch. I wept, that no one is educating the children. I wept for my kids, who have to strive in a world with those socialized children.

Jesus wept. I weep too.

Faithe

[arghmatey]

I weep for the poorly educated.

 

Should I weep for my "sugar code"ed children, too?

 

Sorry, I'm lmao at the comments.

[Denise in Florida]

It was interesting to read the responses from school aged kids.

 

My girls both enjoyed homeschooling (or at least that is what they tell me :001_smile:) and their friends seem to have transitioned to dual enrollment classes well. But they tell me that there are many 'socially awkward' homeschoolers around. When I ask them to describe what that means, it seems to come down to over sheltering due to relgion rather than home education. There are many homeschoolers that blend right in and do very well, but there are some 'train wrecks' as my dd calls them.

 

We as homeschool moms tend to roll our eyes at the 'socialization' question but there is a kernel of issue there that needs consideration.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

But, Denise, only one of the students commenting even claimed to know a homeschooler. All of those comments were based on assumption and stereotype.

 

I'm willing to talk about awkward homeschoolers as long as we also talk about awkward public-schoolers.

 

I'm willing to talk about ill-prepared homeschoolers as long as we also talk about ill-prepared public-schoolers.

[happyhomemaker25]

To be fair when I was in highschool and met my first homeschooler I thought his parents were crazy. I felt so sorry for him. It was after we were both graduated and I was watching him live his life so effectively that I started thinking they might have done something right. At 18 years old he was a man. He was not stuck in Peter Pan mode.

When I began thinking about getting married and having kids I decided I would homeschool. I was in my twenties then and had seen a little bit more of life after highschool.

But yes, the comments are very frustrating.

[happyhomemaker25]

But, Denise, only one of the students commenting even claimed to know a homeschooler. All of those comments were based on assumption and stereotype.

 

I'm willing to talk about awkward homeschoolers as long as we also talk about awkward public-schoolers.

 

I'm willing to talk about ill-prepared homeschoolers as long as we also talk about ill-prepared public-schoolers.

 

This. My oldest will be a socially awkward person period. One of my sons might as well. My daughter has no social boundaries and my son is very self centered to an extreme. I'm sure people will blame it on her being homeschooled, but I can't worry about that. They would be this way in school or not. I went to a college prep public highschool and there were plenty of kids there who were socially awkward and still are as adults. It's a mark of genius I think. LOL

Of course, as a Christian I'm ok with some social awkwardness in my kids. I don't want them to be conformed to this world. :001_smile:

[bethben]

I too thought the homeschool students were more articulate and more varied in what they said and what they were involved in. Even the public school students (whom many of them couldn't seem to write well at all - sad sad sad) admitted that a homeschooler would get a better education but be unable to "socialize". What is the point of adolescence? To learn how to be a teenager or to learn how to be an adult? It seems that the version of socialization we keep butting our heads up against is really focused on getting our children to learn how to be adolescents rather than adults. Would you rather have your child learn how to relate to a wide variety of ages like adults do or learn how to relate to their own age peers. We spend most of our lives as adults. Think about it. For a real boost to why to continue homeschooling read The Dumbest Generation.

 

Beth

[Mergath]

I had to laugh at the person who said that public school prepares you because it's just like real life. Boy, are they going to have a shock after graduation.

[Guest submarines]

Their responses (at least the first page) are so uniform, both in style and reasoning, that I'm tempted to think it was a social studies assigment they had completed after a class discussion.

[Denise in Florida]

But, Denise, only one of the students commenting even claimed to know a homeschooler. All of those comments were based on assumption and stereotype.

 

I'm willing to talk about awkward homeschoolers as long as we also talk about awkward public-schoolers.

 

I'm willing to talk about ill-prepared homeschoolers as long as we also talk about ill-prepared public-schoolers.

 

 

I totally agree. It is tempting but inaccurate to describe either group using anecdotal stories. :001_smile: I knew this public schooler/homeschooler who .....

 

I'm glad you linked the story because it is good to see what perceptions are out there.

 

I just meant: Many sterotypes have a kernel of truth. There really are some socially awkward homeschoolers (and public schoolers) out there. We do our kids a disservice when we just discount the concern without taking a reality check. Personally I think most of the women here do research and go the extra mile to raise well rounded kids. But not all moms (homeschool or publicschool) do.

[regentrude]

Really, the first few sounded as if those were high school students who were given this as a writing assignment in school. Assuming that most of them have no experience with homeschooling, I am not surprised to hear their opinioins - how are they supposed to know that, and how, homeschoolers socialize? Most likely, this assignment has been given as a short time essay, not as a research paper, so they just offer their opinion there and then, without having investigated the subject.

It does not bother me one single bit.

[Annie G]

My favorite comment was from the kid who had homeschooled for two hours and nearly died from the isolation. What does that even mean? LOL

 

Wasn't that hysterical???

[Lady Florida.]

I think I might "sugar code" my children today! :lol:

 

 

Don't you know your homeschooled children are "loosing" out on "makeing" friends? :lol:

[Denise in Florida]

This. My oldest will be a socially awkward person period. One of my sons might as well. My daughter has no social boundaries and my son is very self centered to an extreme. I'm sure people will blame it on her being homeschooled, but I can't worry about that. They would be this way in school or not. I went to a college prep public highschool and there were plenty of kids there who were socially awkward and still are as adults. It's a mark of genius I think. LOL

Of course, as a Christian I'm ok with some social awkwardness in my kids. I don't want them to be conformed to this world. :001_smile:

 

Yep, my girls have their quirks that would be there no matter what.

 

I know anecdotal evidence is the weakest kind, but... I know personally some moms who think 'socialization is a myth my kids will be fine' when in truth their kids are not fine and they need broader interactions, less sheltering and more parental guidance. They need to learn to accept differences and express their beliefs in a less creepy manner.

 

and yes, I am aware of the irony of using an anecdotal argument after telling Tibbie that we should not do that. aarrrghh *** insert headdesk smilie here***

Edited November 12, 2011 by Denise in Florida

[OLG]

Their responses (at least the first page) are so uniform, both in style and reasoning, that I'm tempted to think it was a social studies assigment they had completed after a class discussion.

:iagree: And maybe suggested by the teacher's union??

[happyhomemaker25]

Yep, my girls have their quirks that would be there no matter what.

 

I know anecodatal evidence is the weakest kind, but... I know personally some mom who think 'socialization is a myth my kids will be fine' when in truth their kids are not fine and they need broader interactions, less sheltering and more parental guidance. They need to learn to accept differences and express their beliefs in a less creepy manner.

 

I guess I should mention as well that my oldest daughter has attachment issues. So, I know that mine is unique. I don't know what the boy's issue is, I'm really hoping it's a nine year old boy phase. LOL

We do socialize quite a bit though, so I guess I'm not worried about that.

[Tabrett]

Really, the first few sounded as if those were high school students who were given this as a writing assignment in school. Assuming that most of them have no experience with homeschooling, I am not surprised to hear their opinioins - how are they supposed to know that, and how, homeschoolers socialize? Most likely, this assignment has been given as a short time essay, not as a research paper, so they just offer their opinion there and then, without having investigated the subject.

It does not bother me one single bit.

 

This is what I was thinking, too. If the students are being graded by a public school teacher, I think they would write what the teacher wants to hear. What a great way of social engineering.:glare:

 

But, when my oldest started attending public high school, the students who became her friends were all shocked that she had been HS'ed. They were supprised by how normal and social she was. My dd thought it all very odd that people were supprised.

 

It is hard to make a judgement when you have never encountered a HS'er and all you have to go on is sensational news stories and shows like the Duggars. I have a feeling that most people who don't know HS'ers base what they know about HS'ing from the Duggars and I'd will admit they are unsocialized and odd based on the world's view of normal.

[AvasMom]

Wow. How sad that these kids can't write better than this. Two of my dd's three best friends are public schooled and I know they write very well. They are both GT though so I guess they aren't representative. I hope the majority leans more toward them than toward these kids!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

It was interesting to read the responses from school aged kids.

 

My girls both enjoyed homeschooling (or at least that is what they tell me :001_smile:) and their friends seem to have transitioned to dual enrollment classes well. But they tell me that there are many 'socially awkward' homeschoolers around. When I ask them to describe what that means, it seems to come down to over sheltering due to relgion rather than home education. There are many homeschoolers that blend right in and do very well, but there are some 'train wrecks' as my dd calls them.

 

We as homeschool moms tend to roll our eyes at the 'socialization' question but there is a kernel of issue there that needs consideration.

 

There are awkward homschoolers because homeschoolers are on a bell curve of social skills just like public school students are. Though the sample of homeschoolers is admittedly smaller. If a homeschooler is awkward, it apparently is because they are isolated. If a public schooler is awkward it is because. . . I don't know. . . what causes nerdiness? The definition of nerdiness in school seems to either be related to something like Aspergers (which again, never seems to be a consideration if you are homeschooled) or because they have the temerity to actually be interested in math and science (the typical geek).

[lmrich]

My son is now in public school and misses the socialization that he had time for when homeschooling.

[Mama2Many4]

In my opinion, i would never turn to home schooling. When you are home schooled, you automaticly loose the whole social experience of school. In the real world you need to be social. Otherwise you’re going to get know where. I understand that the learning education might be to an advantage while homeschooling because its all one on one and you are the only student reciveing all the help you need whenever you need it. I would never home school my child because I would be holding them back from friends and the social life they will need in the feature. I would never even consider home schooling.

 

— Macie P.

 

Yes, because we all know that PS is doing such a bang up job turning out literate adults ready for the "feature".:001_huh:

 

:lol:

[lauracolumbus]

Their responses (at least the first page) are so uniform, both in style and reasoning, that I'm tempted to think it was a social studies assigment they had completed after a class discussion.

 

I thought they were so similar as well, but didn't think about it being an assignment. Interesting...

 

Laura

[Catwoman]

I tend to agree with the idea that this was a school assignment.

 

Let's face it, how many of those kids do you think actually read the New York Times, accidentally happened upon this topic, and were compelled to post a comment on it?

 

Oh, sure, they might read the NYT in the "feature," but right now... probably not so much... they're probably too busy making friends in the "real world" of public high school. ;)

 

If it truly was a school assignment, and all of those kids were in the same class, their grammar and spelling teachers should be lined up and shot. :tongue_smilie:

[Chris in VA]

Do you think the percentage of kids who are awkward socially is higher in homeschooled kids? If so, could that be because some kids are pulled out of public school or just homeschooled from the beginning b/c their parents notice the awkwardness (and I don't just mean awkward, I mean not fitting in socially, whether due to personality or disability or learning diff or whatever) and are able to homeschool in order to help it, heal it, or just deal with it at home to provide a more successful outcome? (Sorry this is so...awkward! lol)

 

I don't know the percentages at all. Just asking.

[mktkcb]

I started reading, but quit after the first response LOL!. I think I'll just keep listening to my oldest dd, who never went to any school but mine and a few outside classes, and who is a junior mechanical engineering major at the local Uni right now, and who is officially smarter than me, and very socially adept. She gave my dh and I an unsolicited lecture over dinner last night about the culture of laziness she sees every day in college, and how homeschooling raises the bar, and parents just expect more, and....... on and on she went. lets just say that after a normal week of nagging, hounding, pleading, and dragging my youngest ds (9th grade, gifted/mild adhd/aspie) through schoolwork and dealing with all the attending whining, complaining, and meltdowns that come with a 2e kid, it was SO nice to hear :). I said "Thank you dear sweet daughter, do you realize how much you have raised my self esteem?" Being just a teensy bit aspie herself, her intent was not to encourage me in any way, but just to vent. She gave me a slightly confused look and said "You're welcome." She makes me smile.

[Heather in AL]

Their responses (at least the first page) are so uniform, both in style and reasoning, that I'm tempted to think it was a social studies assigment they had completed after a class discussion.

 

:iagree: After reading just a few of the responses, I smelled an assignment in there somewhere.

 

I also thought at first that it was a high school assignment, but I sincerely hope it was middle school kids writing most of that, as it hurt to read. :confused:

 

It makes me so sad to see just how poorly the education system is preparing the masses for 'the real world'.

[Rivka]

Yeah, I assume that public schooled kids who read the New York Times of their own volition have better English skills.

[ereks mom]

Who taught these kids to write?? Oh my! Faithe

 

:iagree:

[bookfiend]

I'm surprised the NY Times hasn't pulled this page out of sheer embarassment over what these comments reveal about their public schools.

[catz]

Yeah, I assume that public schooled kids who read the New York Times of their own volition have better English skills.

 

:iagree: Reading what those kids regurgitated in barely intelligible English was quite depressing.

[TCB]

To be honest, the opinions expressed hardly seem to matter. The spelling, grammar and puctuation, in most of the replies from the PS kids, is so terrible that I would be filled with fear if my kids were in PS and I read them. I find it hard to believe that it can really be that bad. Heaven help us it if is.

[mcconnellboys]

The thing that makes me cry is that the responses are so poorly written, one can hardly read them. I guess they've been socialized at the expense of being educated....

[QuirkyKapers]

I noticed the grammer and the uniformity of the replies in so many. All about not learning to be in the real world, not being able to socialize with friends etc. I actually wondered how many of these kids heard this from their parents. Sad really. I never though about it being a writing assignment but I could see that.

[happyhomemaker25]

Do you not love the ignorance displayed in the content of these responses?

Sounds like a lot of them were coached on what to say about socialization.

I don't want to be homeschooled because homeschoolers never have any friends.

One kid said you can't get married if your homeschooled.

Homeschooling just teaches your kids to be at home. :confused:

My kids are cracking up at these responses.

I love, love, love that they all think high school is the "real world".

[dakarimom5]

I don't know how to multi-quote but I agree that this was probably a high school assignment. I also agree that is is a sad but true example of what ps children are learning. My DSD is a junior and her papers I have proof read for her are that bad.

 

BTW, I randomly clicked on a page and read the comments made by a homeschooler named Alex. If any of you are his mom I would like to say that I hope my boys turn out like him. And I would love to know what curriculum you used!!;):lol:

[SonshineLearner]

Some people like being in a box, some people don't :) These people like a box and they enjoy rehashing the same topic over and over. That's great for them; they'll make great soldiers for the government. You know, the people who do as they are told, because that's what everyone else does. I want my child to think for himself. To realize his individual potential; to make decisions based on morals and ethics he's logically thought through. We are Christ followers (Christians) and I want him to choose to make his decisions based on what God considers important. We're doing our best to emphasize that God wants him to use his brain to attain knowledge of all that God has created. (All subjects:))

When and if he ever goes into a "school" situation, I still want him to enjoy learning because it's important, not just to get a grade. Grades are based on what you learn in a particular environment; what I want is for him to expand his knowledge based on his individual ability.

:)

[jillian]

At our "real world" high school, twice in the last month they have been on lock down. Drug sniffing dogs brought in and drugs found. Darn...too bad my unsocialized kids missed that "real world" experience.

 

Dd (9) started reading responses and ended up getting on a rant, lol.

In my "real world" high school (that I graduated from and is one of the best in districts in the state and one of the best schools in that district) we regularly had teachers and students assaulted (probably all those non-existent drugs).

[Lady Florida.]

 

And to be frank, my ds doesn't get nearly as much socialization now as he did when in ps. He does have his hockey friends, and his cousins, but most school days he doesn't get to interact with other kids, unless we take him to the park or whatever.

 

 

 

I have a confession to make. My ds, who has never set foot in a classroom unless you count 4 months in a church preschool, will be taking a class or two in ps next semester. He wants the opportunity to meet more kids his age. We do have teens in our hs group, and he does have neighborhood friends, but he's a very social type. I don't blame him for wanting to be around more teens. We had a long discussion and dh and I decided to let him give it a try. Thankfully, Florida allows homeschoolers to take classes in public school. I spoke with the assistant principal, and we are to get with her at the beginning of December when they start second semester registration.

 

We'll see how it goes. He doesn't want to go to school and give up the freedom of homeschooling, so this seems like the best option. I'm a little saddened by it, but that's just me being selfish, and I understand why he feels the way he does. Maybe he'll like it, or maybe he'll find it isn't what he thought it would be. He presented his case in a reasoned manner so we said yes.

[Iucounu]

The commentary in this thread is not completely error-free. 'Nuff said.

[GingerPoppy]

Not completely error-free, but that's hardly the point--unless the point is that many homeschooling moms were public school graduates? :D

 

I think the stark difference between the homeschoolers' comments and those of the public schooled kids speaks for itself. Just because homeschooling doesn't produce perfection doesn't mean it isn't a much better choice for some people--it can still produce superior results. It certainly appeared to produce superior results in the NYT comment section. (But, of course, it's not for everyone.)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The commentary in this thread is not completely error-free. 'Nuff said.

 

Stick around a little longer, because there is a bit of a cycle. This is Public School Stinks Week, but Homeschoolers Are Clueless Week will probably roll around again soon. It usually does this time of year, when the bloom is off the co-op rose. We can be pretty hard on public school, but we are brutal when we start criticizing fellow homeschoolers.

 

(Off to disable the pm feature...) :leaving:

[SW in IL]

Admittedly, I only read the first half dozen or so responses on that web page, but the thing that struck me most was the inability of these students to write:

 

"you’re going to get know where" (no where)

"with. it might" (what happened to capitalization?)

"either by themselves of within a group of people" (of should be or - probably a typo)

"but if you don’t have no one else but your parents" (where did she learn to write?)

"when they go and applies to works or colleges. the children who go home-schooling"

 

I consider myself a failure at homeschooling my son, but even he can and does write using proper English - and according to the GED evaluation test he took a few months ago, he's writing on a 7th grade level.

 

 

And, since when is public school, the real world?

"when your home schooled, you’re away from the real world"

 

Shaking my head,

Sue