happyhomemaker25 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 The grammar, though hard to read at times, did not really bother me as much as the lack of well thought out responses. My kids do well with grammar while doing school work. They have horrible grammar any time they do free writing. I'm still trying how to deal with this as some say, "It's ok to not correct their free writing." The homeschoolers responses for the most part were well thought out and organized. They were also not full of fallacies. That's what I noticed. Of course my Critical Thinking and Logic studies in highschool were taught more like ethics classes so that could be the case here as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennsmile Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 You can comment on the article. All it takes is your name and email. They don't ask for your age. My comment appears on page 4. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 But, Denise, only one of the students commenting even claimed to know a homeschooler. All of those comments were based on assumption and stereotype. I'm willing to talk about awkward homeschoolers as long as we also talk about awkward public-schoolers. I'm willing to talk about ill-prepared homeschoolers as long as we also talk about ill-prepared public-schoolers. I think it's important to acknowledge that it is such a widely held stereotype. WE might have a different experience of our own homeschooling, but that isn't what most people believe or assume about what homeschooling is like. I think we can't just shrug it off and say "oh look how terrible their writing is" as if that makes their perceptions less valid (and strokes our superiority complexes, to boot). The truth is that those comments ARE how MOST non-homeschooling people see homeschooling. And, if we are very honest with ourselves, we have to admit that the majority of our children to not get the same amount of face time with peers as a public schooled child would get. Note that I didn't say "socialization." I do understand the definition of socialization -- both positive and negatives attributes -- and I am not confusing socialization for what occurs in a public school setting. However, most people will call mere face time "socialization." That is the basis for those comments. In addition, those comments are supposed to be from teens. Most of them do not know homeschoolers or have experience with homeschooling. All they have ever known is public school. Their common misconceptions of homeschooling aren't positive, so why would they offer a thoughtful defense of homeschooling? Why would they even consider giving up the peer relationships and daily face time they currently experience as their norm? That WOULD be stupid, as one commenter so aptly noted. It wouldn't make one bit of sense to them, given their lifelong indoctrination to public schooling. Conversely, I'm sure there are plenty of our homeschooled kids who don't know anything else and who would think it was stupid to give it up for the big, bad unknown of public school. I know my own kid falls in that category. I suppose I've indoctrinated him well, too. Bottom line: What they have to say is very telling of the perceptions of homeschooling. Until we can find a way to change that, homeschooling is always going to be equated with unsocialized kids who are unprepared for the real world. That may not be an accurate perception, but it is the predominant perception nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I think it's important to acknowledge that it is such a widely held stereotype. WE might have a different experience of our own homeschooling, but that isn't what most people believe or assume about what homeschooling is like. I think we can't just shrug it off and say "oh look how terrible their writing is" as if that makes their perceptions less valid (and strokes our superiority complexes, to boot). The truth is that those comments ARE how MOST non-homeschooling people see homeschooling. And, if we are very honest with ourselves, we have to admit that the majority of our children to not get the same amount of face time with peers as a public schooled child would get. Note that I didn't say "socialization." I do understand the definition of socialization -- both positive and negatives attributes -- and I am not confusing socialization for what occurs in a public school setting. However, most people will call mere face time "socialization." That is the basis for those comments. In addition, those comments are supposed to be from teens. Most of them do not know homeschoolers or have experience with homeschooling. All they have ever known is public school. Their common misconceptions of homeschooling aren't positive, so why would they offer a thoughtful defense of homeschooling? Why would they even consider giving up the peer relationships and daily face time they currently experience as their norm? That WOULD be stupid, as one commenter so aptly noted. It wouldn't make one bit of sense to them, given their lifelong indoctrination to public schooling. Conversely, I'm sure there are plenty of our homeschooled kids who don't know anything else and who would think it was stupid to give it up for the big, bad unknown of public school. I know my own kid falls in that category. I suppose I've indoctrinated him well, too. Bottom line: What they have to say is very telling of the perceptions of homeschooling. Until we can find a way to change that, homeschooling is always going to be equated with unsocialized kids who are unprepared for the real world. That may not be an accurate perception, but it is the predominant perception nonetheless. Truth. It's also the perception that I held until I actually met real homeschoolers. It took getting to know several surprisingly normal homeschoolers and their families before I even realized that my assumptions were way off of reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Where are all these poorly socialized homeschoolers? I honestly don't know any. I will have my grown dds read this; it will give them a good laugh. Funny how after my older two were so 'isolated' and ill equipped to deal with society, that they are now adamant they will homeschool their own children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) The NYT has a "class" feature for the newspaper. I use it for current events study. Chances are, with that amount of youthful commentary, it is a class assignment. It is here: http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/ ---- As a side dish, I'm pausing to take in some of that invisible bean dip myself. :) (Yep, it's a live running stream on the left of the NYT, hence the heft of commentary..probably due on Monday or something for class) Edited November 12, 2011 by one*mom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Stick around a little longer, because there is a bit of a cycle. This is Public School Stinks Week, but Homeschoolers Are Clueless Week will probably roll around again soon. It usually does this time of year, when the bloom is off the co-op rose. We can be pretty hard on public school, but we are brutal when we start criticizing fellow homeschoolers. (Off to disable the pm feature...) :leaving: True dat! We definitely hold our own to a higher standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I know it's tempting, but it's also a bit ridiculous to draw conclusions about public school vs. homeschooling based on these comments. Some teacher(s) apparently assigned students to leave response comments. We don't know anything about the level or representativeness of the kids who responded, but if they're all from one or two classes you would hardly expect them to be a cross-section of the full range of public school performance. Also, the public-school commenters were speaking off the cuff about a subject they've probably never given much thought to before. The homeschoolers have a lot of knowledge about the topic, plus experience defending it, plus, probably, their mothers muttering about socialization in the background. I mean, I agree that there is no comparison between the two sets of arguments, but let's not kid ourselves that it proves the superiority of homeschoolers overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Yes, most people hold strange opinions about homeschoolers. Either all homeschooled kids are geniuses or they are all weirdoes. My DH and I have been debating on and off making that step from afterschooling to homeschooling and when I mentioned it to a very good friend of mine, she reacted as if I was going to permanently damage my children. According to her she has never met a “normal†homeschooler (she claims to have met many) and they are all weird beyond redemption. Let’s just say no argument is going to change her opinion. I have another friend who once told me how pleasantly surprised she was to meet one of her friends homeschooled kids. She couldn’t believe that those kids were “normalâ€, fun and outspoken. She was so thrilled she said she was going to suggest to her daughter to homeschool her grandkids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerPoppy Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Also, the public-school commenters were speaking off the cuff about a subject they've probably never given much thought to before. The homeschoolers have a lot of knowledge about the topic, plus experience defending it, plus, probably, their mothers muttering about socialization in the background. Probably true, but what kind of assignment is that? "Ok, kids. Here's a random topic. Now log on at NYT and start talking out of your butt about it." Honestly, for an assignment they could have read an article from both sides, had a homeschooler visit the class for an "interview", or ANYTHING that would promote some critical thinking. Otherwise, what exactly is the point? What did it prove? What did they learn? NOTHING. Also, if it was my class, I'd be beyond embarrassed at the level of grammar/punctuation/capitals/spelling. I would insist on editing before posting... after all, commenting on the internet is one form of "publishing", especially for a school assignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momacacia Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 :lol: Thank you for my laugh of the day. I thawt the reesponsis wer hillaireeus. I wunder if theyll b graded for speling and punktuashun? (I'm sorry, so very sorry. I could not resist! :lol:) (Note to Self: schedule extra time for 7yo's Phonics Road this week!!! Yikes!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 The original piece these comments are based on painted a bleak portrait of homeschooling. The comments to that article were nasty enough, but these are a whole other animal. It sounds like the teachers had class "discussions" about how terrible homeschooling is, then directed the students to post accordingly. I know the NYtimes is a liberal publication (= UFT bias) but really, this is just disgraceful. "No human interaction..." I don't know whether to :lol: or :banghead:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 And this is why my 6 yr old has been overheard to tell other kids her age "I'm homeschooled, but it doesn't mean I'm not socialized!". I have to wonder how many 6 yr olds even CARE about "socialization"? Sigh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Read. Wept. That kind of crap makes me want to run aroud, scream, and pull my hair out by the fistful. Did anyone else note a LOT of spelling and grammar mistakes in the responses? Yeah. :glare: Since when did "socialization" become the number one reason to go to school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Their responses (at least the first page) are so uniform, both in style and reasoning, that I'm tempted to think it was a social studies assigment they had completed after a class discussion. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I had to laugh at the person who said that public school prepares you because it's just like real life. Boy, are they going to have a shock after graduation. That's what got me. So many comments were that hsing doesn't prepare one for "real life." Because the real world is all about being in a space with only people in your same age group all day? The real world is all about socializing with your friends all day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Btw, the responses from the public-schooled kids did not surprise me. My 17 yo has mostly PS friends, who do tell him he's missing out on socializing whenever the topic comes up. They say that right after telling my son how dog-eat-dog it is and how depressing it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I wonder if since the majority of the adults are former public schoolers and they have that in common that the former home schoolers don't, does that common bond in itself play a part in shaping the real world? If so, do the homeschoolers fit in well or do they have to learn to adapt to it after they graduate from homeschool? I noticed that the public school kids who wrote in couldn't seem to imagine any other life other than being in school eight hours a day for twelve years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Since when did "socialization" become the number one reason to go to school? I read quite a few of the responses and I don't recall any of them saying anything about the academics. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I read quite a few of the responses and I don't recall any of them saying anything about the academics. :lol: That was my thought. It reads like the only reason to go to public school is to be socially advanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I have a confession to make. My ds, who has never set foot in a classroom unless you count 4 months in a church preschool, will be taking a class or two in ps next semester. He wants the opportunity to meet more kids his age. We do have teens in our hs group, and he does have neighborhood friends, but he's a very social type. I don't blame him for wanting to be around more teens. We had a long discussion and dh and I decided to let him give it a try. Thankfully, Florida allows homeschoolers to take classes in public school. I spoke with the assistant principal, and we are to get with her at the beginning of December when they start second semester registration. We'll see how it goes. He doesn't want to go to school and give up the freedom of homeschooling, so this seems like the best option. I'm a little saddened by it, but that's just me being selfish, and I understand why he feels the way he does. Maybe he'll like it, or maybe he'll find it isn't what he thought it would be. He presented his case in a reasoned manner so we said yes. Aww, it's not a bad thing you have to "confess" about. I totally understand. Truthfully, I think of hs'ing as a tool to achieve my goals (well-rounded, well-educated adult); as opposed to thinking of hs'ing as a kind of monolith in itself--that is, something to uphold, or pledge fealty to. Ok, I hope that wonky analogy makes some sort of sense. Basically, the idea is finding the educational model that works for you and your family. If that model includes some classes at a ps school-so what? That's great! It means you are flexible and willing to use all available resources, not just those that align with some prescribed protocol of "school that is only at home, by home, and for home!" type of thinking. I realize that a lot of hs'ing parents are defensive about charges of socialization, but frankly, it's never bothered me. Partly because, as I said before, I'm very aware that my son doesn't get the same amount of interaction, socially, as he did when in school. And, again, as I also said, that doesn't mean that what he has now isn't enough. It just means less. Less socialization has had both benefits and drawbacks. For my son, who is an asthmatic prone to viral infections, it means he has been very healthy, and his meds have not had to be increased, thanks to a reduced exposure to other sick children. It means less opportunities for him to be bullied (although he was always a confident, self-assured child in ps). The drawbacks are like you have said--less opportunity to meet new people and new friends. So, we do what we can to compensate, and focus on the other positives. My son is like yours, he misses socializing with his friends, but he also really enjoys the freedom of hs'ing. Nothing's perfect, but I believe the best results come from being adaptable and using all the tools at your disposal. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) I'm not surprised that the writing level of many of the respondents is rather poor. However, I'm not about to draw a comparison between the mediocrity of a non-selected populace to the very precise self-selection of the home schooled respondents. It is unlikely that the ps'ers were all responding out of true interest, as many here have speculated, and were actually compelled to comment as part of an assignment. However, I doubt that many, if any, of the home schooled students, were being likewise compelled to write as a matter of assignment. Therefore, comparing these two groups is really not a sound basis for drawing conclusions about which model consistently produces better educated individuals. For example, I was ps'ed for my entire education, and by 10th grade, I was writing at a better, and more advanced level, than the comments from these self-identified hs'ers. I still have graded papers from hs to prove it! :D Honestly, what I find more interesting than these comments is the original article that spawned the commentary. It's a very thoughtful and forthright analysis of the author's experience being homeschooled. I found it to be very encouraging and interesting. Edited November 13, 2011 by Aelwydd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Aww, it's not a bad thing you have to "confess" about. I totally understand. Truthfully, I think of hs'ing as a tool to achieve my goals (well-rounded, well-educated adult); as opposed to thinking of hs'ing as a kind of monolith in itself--that is, something to uphold, or pledge fealty to. Thank you. I think a few things are at issue with me having trouble accepting this. I taught for 15 years in our local school system, until I became pregnant with ds. The fact that I know our system was the number one reason for our decision to homeschool. Nevermind that it's been almost an equal number of years since I left, and that I'm hearing good things about some local schools. I still have the "I've been on the inside and don't want my kid there" mindset. The other thing is that I've become used to not planning our lives around a school schedule. I plan our school schedule around our lives. Even if he takes only one or two classes, the former will now be the case. I know it's right for ds, and I'll know I'll be fine with it. I also know it will take some time for me to be fine with it. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 sameness in the content of the responses. Almost to a poster, they're responses reflect the same opinion (homeschooling bad - no socialization). It makes me wonder about the conversation within the classroom that prompted this assignment. I'm assuming here that this was an asssignment, and possibly an assignment given to kids who struggle with written expression, at least lower performers. How awful is it that these students are being encouraged to think badly of homeschooling while being so poorly served by public education? Painful and ironic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 is disturbing. It's almost as if the teacher provided the opinion and the students simply regurgitated. Sad really, and a lost educational opportunity to really discuss the purpose of education. I know it's tempting, but it's also a bit ridiculous to draw conclusions about public school vs. homeschooling based on these comments. Some teacher(s) apparently assigned students to leave response comments. We don't know anything about the level or representativeness of the kids who responded, but if they're all from one or two classes you would hardly expect them to be a cross-section of the full range of public school performance. Also, the public-school commenters were speaking off the cuff about a subject they've probably never given much thought to before. The homeschoolers have a lot of knowledge about the topic, plus experience defending it, plus, probably, their mothers muttering about socialization in the background. I mean, I agree that there is no comparison between the two sets of arguments, but let's not kid ourselves that it proves the superiority of homeschoolers overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.