Workplace Rudeness

[8circles]

Well I would go and find out what the problem was because I believe in sticking up for my friends too. Problems never get solved if no one tries.

 

Rosie

:iagree::iagree::iagree:I couldn't agree more. I think that there are entirely too many silent people in the world.

[Aelwydd]

Thanks again for the contributions. I may ask about the policy change. I still have to be careful about that though, because it could be misconstrued as a passive aggressive way to get back at the manager.

 

Also, I'm not feeling well right now, and this is all making my throat ache worse (have a swollen lymph node right now). And I have several hours more at work, so I gotta go.

 

Please continue to offer advice, but I respectfully request that the thread not be turned into a huge debate.

[Rebecca VA]

Sigh. Maybe the supervisor isn't as sensitive as you are. Maybe she was tired. Maybe it was a little late to ask for special requests. Maybe she figured your friend wasn't very hungry since she was just snacking on chips and didn't ask for anything special.

 

We get it. You're sensitive and your heart bleeds for the downtrodden. Your supervisor is clueless. Possibly you can -- in a kind and matter-of-fact manner -- let her know that Z was starving during the meeting and it would have been so nice if the company had provided her with some special food. Otherwise, you're just plotting to treat your supervisor unkindly and accusing her of hateful motives, which is really unfair.

[MrsBasil]

I like the idea of asking if there is a new policy in place, just because it sounds like you and your co-workers are accustomed to being able to custom order to some degree. I mean unless the HR manager has a different policy and she's never run a meeting with that group before and it was just a clash of styles, but still. If the policy actually changed, a quick heads up would be appropriate since it sounds like your colleagues are used to being accommodated to some degree wrt dietary needs?

 

But, forgive me if I get this wrong, you are leaving the company shortly, Z is staying and she doesn't wish to make waves?

 

I'd probably seethe inwardly, be professionally friendly to the HR manager as necessary, and be done with it out of respect for Z's wishes. I'd be dying to ask though. :grouphug: I'd also let Z know that it bugged the snot out of me and that I wanted to ask about a policy change and see what she thought about that.

 

As a Christian, I'd try to pray for the HR person every time I felt tempted to be, um, not the friendliest person towards. :) That's my short temper and personal hang ups talking though.

[unsinkable]

Or she could use a spork to pick up some turkey.

 

Would anyone think it was funny if I said this wouldn't work b/c the word spork has the word pork in it?

 

No?

 

Kthxbai

[elegantlion]

I agree. Just rude. And as a host, if I coordinated a meal that any attendee could not eat, *I* would be mortified and would quietly correct it through whatever means necessary. In this instance, it seems like just placing an order would not have been out of the ordinary so no undue spotlight on "Z".

 

 

:iagree:

 

:iagree:

 

I really like the idea of asking if there had been a policy change for future knowledge. When they ask why you're asking, you can explain what happened.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I think it was rude, especially since changes were allowed previously. In some places I've worked, someone would have been in the kitchen with Z making sure she had something she could eat.

 

I don't think it's rude to ask about policy changes, because who knows who is used to ordering differently.

 

I surely hope you weren't in a diversity training. :tongue_smilie:

 

The HR person should have addressed her issue at that moment, "Sorry we've had some policy changes." "Z and I already discussed this." Whatever, but yes it was rude.

[Murphy101]

I have said more than once that the way the manager treated her was hurtful to Z's feelings.

 

If you don't consider rude treatment and hurt feelings to be a form of emotional harm, then please consult a dictionary. Harm is harm, and it can take various forms. Also, please be aware that there is such a thing as a "hostile working environment." What the HR manager did constituted such.

 

Oh the drama.

Not making prearrangements and not getting what she prefers to eat at ONE event does not constitute a hostile work environment.

Nor should someone claiming to be a professional have some big hurt going on over it.

That is just ridiculous.

 

You were not there. I'm not asking for an insertion of your opinion about what happened, because I already know what happened. The question I asked was how to deal with it,

 

You shouldn't deal with it. It isn't your problem. No one is saying it didn't happen. What we are saying is there are many reasons why it might have happened. None of them have anything to do with you.

 

In any case, again, not asking for opinions about whether the manager was rude, because I was there, and she was.

 

Even if she was rude, so was your friend. She should have made previous arrangements or not commented in it.

 

You say it is normal for everyone to special order.

You say Z has gone to these meetings at this hotel before without a problem?

Then why didn't Z just go ahead and special order instead of drawing attention to herself? Why did she wait until the person next to her commented to decide to order? That seems annoying to me and at least as thoughtless as HR.

 

Maybe it was a time thing? It sounds like everyone was already eating and maybe ordering at that time would have unnecessarily prolonged the lunch meeting?

 

Idk. It doesn't really matter to me if HR was rude. I don't expect professionals to care about my diet or my hurt feelings during a business meeting. Even so, this is ONE meeting. I would not let this one event bother me much. *shrug*

[myfunnybunch]

before anyone even accepts I have grounds to be upset.

 

Just caught up on this thread, so sorry for chiming in so late. This is the part that has me :confused:.

 

Why do people in this forum have to accept that you have grounds to be upset? Take the advice that's helpful and ignore the rest. You don't have to justify yourself. Hmmm. Adding here to say that re-reading this sounds..rude...or snarky, or something, especially when said to someone who's upset, but that's not my intention. Read this as matter-of-fact directness.

 

As for the original problem...I get that Z is your friend. I'll take your word for it that the HR manager was rude. I get that your feelings are hurt for your friend. My personal opinion in the matter is that your friend is an adult. For many reasons, I'd be very careful with the idea that she needs you to speak up *for* her.

 

But to address the original question....Really, no matter how the problem is addressed, whether you speak up or not, you're going to have to treat working with the HR person the way any professional does when they have to work with someone they don't like: Be professional. Do your job politely. Keep your personal feelings out of it.

 

Cat

[Murphy101]

Okay, she got the chips off the buffet.

My error.

Sorry.

 

If Z was used to ordering whatever at these meetings, then why didn't she go ahead and do that from the start?:confused: THAT is was I mean by Z making her own arrangements.

 

The only thing HR did was shake her head and continue her own meal.

 

I believe you when you say she was rude.

 

I just don't think this ONE event matters that much.

[PiCO]

You say that I don't need to convince anyone, but have you seen the number of posts here flatly denying what I've shared? I came for advice, but instead I'm being made to feel like I have to justify why I'm offended first, before anyone even accepts I have grounds to be upset.

:grouphug:

Just wanted to say- I agree with you that everyone seems to be ignoring your stated reason for posting. I was giggling about all the strange (to me) posts at first, but now it's starting to seem like the twilight zone. That happens here every now and then...

 

Anyway, I think the HR lady was a jerk- she should have addressed the issue and gave her reason, not a quick shake of her head indicating that no one should get the poor woman some food. But- I don't think you're in a good place to say something about it to the HR lady, because it didn't happen to you... might make it look like your friend was complaining to you about it.

 

I do think you should tell your friend to ask about the company's policy, if it bothers her. Or you can ask your friend if she would mind if you ask.

[texasmama]

It is probably best since you are an employee headed out the door to another job and your friend Z is capable of standing up for herself or for getting clarification on this issue to let Z handle it in the way she feels most comfortable. In your shoes, I would continue to offer support to my friend Z but not get involved in company policies or issues. Nothing good typically comes of that, IMO.

[I talk to the trees]

It appears like you want to be offend on your friends behalf.

 

Tons of people have dietary restrictions. Some relate to religion some don't (vegans, gluten intolerance, allergies). Anyone providing food for a group of people is treading a narrow margin of what any one person can or cannot consume.

 

My guess it that the HR manager didn't want to provide special food for your friend because she/he would than be opening the flood gates to all the other requests for special food from others with special food needs. If she honored one special request why wouldn't she need to honor any others?

 

I agree with the prior comment that you may be infantilizing your friend. I assume she's a big girl, it this was an issue for her, I'm sure she'd handle it on her own.

 

My thoughts exactly!

 

I have food allergies. Many (if not most) of the foods that are available at meetings, parties, etc.... are things that I am unable to eat. I have no problem with this at all. In fact, I would feel very rude and uncomfortable asking someone to provide something special just for me. If there is something provided that I can enjoy, great! If not, so what?

 

OP, I think you're trying to read way too much into the situation. Perhaps it was an awkward moment, but it sounds like you're projecting your discomfort onto your friend. I'm guessing she's adult enough to take care of it herself!

[unsinkable]

I am actually offended by the word Jewess.

 

I didn't think that word was used anymore.

 

:confused:

[Murphy101]

I am actually offended by the word Jewess.

 

I didn't think that word was used anymore.

 

:confused:

 

Yeah. Well. Glad you went there instead of me. I wasn't going to even tread there!:confused:;)

[MariannNOVA]

It wasn't "rude." It might have been, I dunno, thoughtless or something, but I don't see anything "rude."

 

I've read the responses to here (very interesting thread, btw). I would call it 'odd.' I don't see anything rude either. Just 'odd.' Like the earthquake we had in northern virginia in the summer.:001_huh:

 

Dh's admin is arranging for food on an almost daily basis at the firm where dh works. She emails and follows up via phone with each attendee (or their admin) regarding dietary restrictions. Until DH began this procedure, no one ever did anything to accomodate anyone. It is now standard procedure.

[EmilyK]

I have come around on this and am now getting why you are upset.

 

If you're having a hard time letting this go, I would go to the HR woman and say that you were bothered by this situation and want to know if the custom ordering policy is being changed or if this was something specific to that meeting. I think if I were the HR person, who presumably thinks her behavior was OK, I would think you were too sensitive, but if you were calm and "no big deal" in your attitude, I think it would be hard for her to make a big deal of it back. I have done that sort of thing with bosses over the years and most are happy you talked to them directly rather than stewing it over silently or fomenting with other employees. As a boss now, I know I would feel that way. I hate it when I find out someone has been stewing over something I could have cleared up easily.

 

I assume this is a regional or other difference, but I work in a downtown office and am more or less in charge of various lunch meetings in our office or at local clubs etc. In most/all cases, there is an extra charge and a disruption if there are special order during the lunch. If it is a set lunch, we email folks in advance so they can let us know if they can't eat it. Buffets we probably wouldn't and assume that someone can make do. Most of these meetings are 1 to 2 hours and are very jam-packed so we have lunch there so there can be a minimum of disruption and delay from ordering. Here there are a lot of people who are GF or vegetarian/vegan, but few with religious restrictions. I was surprised when I first moved here and had a lunch meeting on Good Friday, then realized no one else had ever heard of fasting on that day.

 

Apologies if I am misremembering an earlier post, but I'm not sure it is the preferred nomenclature to describe the HR person as a Jewess. Maybe someone who is Jewish could correct me on that. Just FYI in case you were going to say that in the conversation with the HR woman.

[Aelwydd]

 

Apologies if I am misremembering an earlier post, but I'm not sure it is the preferred nomenclature to describe the HR person as a Jewess. Maybe someone who is Jewish could correct me on that. Just FYI in case you were going to say that in the conversation with the HR woman.

 

I don't know, you may be right! I have one really good Jewish friend I met several years ago, and she always jokingly told me, "It's not hero, it's heroine, and I'm not a Jew, I'm a Jewess." She was the first Jewish person I ever got to meet (I grew up in a small NC town, so not a lot of ethnic diversity at the time).

 

If it's an inappropriate term, I'll edit to remove it, and apologize for my ignorance.

 

ETA: I edited it, because I don't know if it's offensive, and I don't want to offend any Jewish or other folks here!

[Unicorn.]

I will agree with you. I find it extremely rude. If the HR person was Jewish, I'm surprised she ate the meat w/ only one set of tongs being used. My vegetartian friends wouldn't eat cheese if the same tongs were used for meat. I think I would have gone and asked the kitchen for something for her anyway, and even offered to pay out of my pocket.

[2cents]

I'll just be quick and say that I think any requests for special food concerns should be made by the person who needs them and if possible in advance.

 

I wonder if the HR person was just afraid that making a big deal about that would get the meeting off track. IMO, unless it is a life threatening condition, I think that HR was doing the right thing. The op's friend didn't seem very bothered and I would let her address if with hr if that is her desire. I wouldn't read anymore into it than this. Based on what the op described, there is IMO no reason to assume any kind of religious intolerance going on.

[TravelingChris]

I am not an HR person and have never been one nor do I expect to ever be one either. If I was a person in charge of a luncheon buffet, I would make sure there were a variety of foods there so anyone could eat something- salad fixings, meats, cheeses, bread, etc. It seems like Z could have eaten cheeses (separate tong), salad, bread, chips, etc. I certainly wouldn't be catering to non-medical preferences. As someone else said, I wouldn't be changing to halal meals or vegan or kosher. I would simply make sure that what ever is there would be acceptable normally to all. I wouldn't allow people to order different meals because as others said, special plate meals are normally nicer than a buffet. Z shouldn't get special treatment, just acceptable treatment same as others. What I see could happen if too much is made of this is no meals for anyone. How would that help anything?

[Lovin Learnin]

No, it had not been addressed, and again, please stop injecting pure conjecture into this thread.

 

I have already addressed the "expense" justification multiple times.

 

I mentioned that Z and I talked during lunch after the meeting. Please rest assured there was no "special accommodation" by HR--she was as flummoxed about the whole thing as I was. Nobody has told her anything.

 

Ok, calm down Rebeka. I was not making a judgement on what happened I just offered a possible explanation. I did not read the entire thread since it was already 7 pages when I posted. Sometimes when you are looking to vent it helps to see the situation through someone else's eyes. That is what I tried to offer in my last post.

 

Based on what you wrote above it is your friend's responsibility to approach HR with any special food requests prior to an event. Either that or she should plan to bag her lunch. Of course, she can always chose to handle it the way she did, which was to eat the chips that were available. Until she has a formal conversation with management about her dietary needs I feel she shouldn't criticize. Nor should you.

[unsinkable]

So, when we had to do a round the table "how are you, what's going in your life" break the ice chit chat, someone asked my friend why she only had a bag of chips. She matter-of-factly replied that she's Muslim, and doesn't eat pork (it's one thing she's strict about). And even though there were non-pork options on the table, they all were "contaminated" in the sense that the same pair of tongs was used as with the ham.

 

So she simply said she doesn't eat pork and everyone at the table just magically understood that the tongs that touched the ham must be thought of as having touched everything else? Because I wouldn't have thought that automatically (now that I've read this thread I might, however. :D)

 

The whole table was quiet when she said this, and the HR manager, who happens to be Jewish, said nothing. Just picked up her own sandwich and took a bite. One of the other folks next to my friend offered to order something from the kitchen, but the HR manager overheard, and shook her head to override him, and went on as if my friend never spoke.

 

if the HR rep said NOTHING, I don't see how you can infer anything. Really. I know you were there and I wasn't but simply shaking her head could have been misunderstood.

 

 

.

[Cheryl in NM]

Sweetheart, if you just wanted input on how to deal with the HR manager you would not have given us the whole situation. You wanted commiseration as well. You were just surprised by those that didn't agree with you.

 

You could have said something like:

 

"HR manager was rude to a friend of mine in a meeting. Friend is upset, but doesn't want to speak up because she doesn't want to be seen as a problem. I am upset because I witnessed it. I'd like to say something to the mgr, what does the hive think?"

 

Those are the only pertinent details to what you asked for.

 

It doesn't have anything to do with dietary restrictions, your friend being Muslim, or finances.

[RanchGirl]

Well, you need to read the thread again, because I addressed your points a, b, and c. The kitchen staff are familiar with Z's dietary restrictions, because we've all taken meals in the restaurant there before.

 

No one at the table was "fired up." We were all surprised, because her ordering something on the side from the kitchen, is something we've all done on previous occasions. With the express approval of other management.

If you got suddenly denied something at work that was regularly enjoyed by your coworkers, and it was done in a meeting in front of other people, with no explanation, well...maybe you wouldn't see that as rude, or weird. But I do. I think it's bad manners to eat in front of somebody and deny them anything else, without so much as a kind word of explanation.

 

I think it's worse manners to do it in front of other people.

 

I read the thread before posting. Nobody denied your friend anything, they just didn't bend over backwards to give her special treatment. I think it does sound like you got fired up, and if this was someone with a different reason, say on a special weight loss diet or food allergies or something,you wouldn't be nearly so upset. And if I was your friend, I would be absolutely mortified at all the special treatment demands others are making on her behalf. She needs (and is certainly capable of and would most likely prefer) to deal with this stuff herself.

 

I get that you don't want people to disagree with you, but that doesn't change my opinion.

[annandatje]

As the title of the thread indicates, I'm about to gripe about work. So, if that sort of thing bores/annoys/offends you, you should probably bail at this point.

 

Anyway, my gripe is this: I made a new friend at my work who happens to be Muslim. Besides her name, you really wouldn't know she's Muslim though, because in her own words she's very "modern," meaning she is very Western in her appearance and her speech.

 

The reason I mention it is we had a recent department meeting, where about 10 of us had to meet with an HR manager for mandatory training. The meeting was held in a hotel board room and there was a bunch of food laid out. However, for the meats, there was only one set of tongs.

 

So, when we had to do a round the table "how are you, what's going in your life" break the ice chit chat, someone asked my friend why she only had a bag of chips. She matter-of-factly replied that she's Muslim, and doesn't eat pork (it's one thing she's strict about). And even though there were non-pork options on the table, they all were "contaminated" in the sense that the same pair of tongs was used as with the ham.

 

The whole table was quiet when she said this, and the HR manager, who happens to be Jewish, said nothing. Just picked up her own sandwich and took a bite. One of the other folks next to my friend offered to order something from the kitchen, but the HR manager overheard, and shook her head to override him, and went on as if my friend never spoke.

 

I'm offended and irritated because it's not like my friend ever asks for any special allowances for her religion. And as religious laws go, the no-pork one actually makes sense, in that my friend at least won't ever be getting brain worms.

 

But mostly what I don't understand the HR manager--whose job is to actually be sensitive about these things, and who I figured as being Jewish herself, would be particularly sympathetic to my friend's dietary restrictions--saying no to my friend being allowed another option.

 

To end this rant, I thought it was a jerky thing to do, and just plain rude. I almost spoke up but I didn't want to embarrass my friend, who took it in stride and didn't protest. But, now I'm having to control myself from giving this HR manager the evil eye every time I see her.

 

So please help me :chillpill: and figure out a way to deal with this woman without showing how much I dislike her.

 

Your friend sounds like an intelligent capable woman who can fight her own battles. By interfering, you risk the possibility of your friend being viewed in a negative manner even though your heart is in the right place.

 

Facts: Your friend has dietary restrictions. This was not a surprise luncheon.

 

Opinion: Your friend has responsiblility for handling her own dietary restrictions. There could have been any number of reasons why the HR manager gave a nonverbal no. While sensitivity in HR manager may be a strength, it certainly is not her "job."

 

Additionally, simply because a person is Jewish does not mean that they follow kosher dietary laws. To make a ridiculously broad generalization, Orthodox Jews generally keep kosher. Conservatives may keep kosher only on holy days. Reformed Jews and nonobservant cultural Jews are not required to keep kosher.

[angela in ohio]

Sigh. Maybe the supervisor isn't as sensitive as you are. Maybe she was tired. Maybe it was a little late to ask for special requests. Maybe she figured your friend wasn't very hungry since she was just snacking on chips and didn't ask for anything special.

 

Yes, I don't understand why she was just eating chips if she planned to ask the kitchen for a special salad. Why hadn't she asked for it already? Was she waiting for the HR person to notice that she wasn't eating and offer something else? I think her best bet would have just been to be direct and ask for a salad up front.

[Aelwydd]

Sweetheart, if you just wanted input on how to deal with the HR manager you would not have given us the whole situation. You wanted commiseration as well. You were just surprised by those that didn't agree with you.

 

 

Wow, that was just condescending. Please don't "sweetheart" me.

 

Also, I've said numerous times on this thread that I gave a summary, not a novel, but that I posted to get advice on dealing with the rude person.

 

What I'm "surprised" about is bascially having people tell me what I actually saw, and what I actually think.

[TravelingChris]

Well the problem is that most of us aren't willing to call the HR person necessarily rude. We can think of alternate explanations for her behavior.

 

But almost all of us have said that you, as a third party, should do nothing. Since you are leaving the company, you won't know the results. Instead of anything good happening, the opposite may happen. No more luncheons, direct rules that no special meals will be ordered (rather than the current situation where some supervisors do order them and others don't), or just a general impression that both you and Z are complainers. Since you are leaving, that won't impact you. It could stop Z from getting a promotion or special duty. I wouldn't do it. It just isn't that important to risk negative feelings.

[duckabell]

I have a couple of Muslim friends and it isn't just pork they avoid but any meat that's not prepared in a certain way. My friends know that if they are going to an event with meat that is not prepared in a certain way they either will have to eat seafood or vegetarian unless there are preparations made ahead of time. Perhaps it wasn't just pork that she was avoiding.

[Cheryl in NM]

Wow, that was just condescending. Please don't "sweetheart" me.

 

Also, I've said numerous times on this thread that I gave a summary, not a novel, but that I posted to get advice on dealing with the rude person.

 

What I'm "surprised" about is bascially having people tell me what I actually saw, and what I actually think.

 

I didn't mean "sweetheart" in a condescending manner, I promise. I've been reading through this thread (I've read every post) and I've formulated posts in my head and every one of them started with "sweetie" or "sweetheart" Since you are from the south I thought you would take it in the intended, helpfulness and concern. I am truly sorry I offended you with it.

 

You presented a "hot-button" issue. A Muslim friend with dietary issues . What does this have to do with your question? Nothing, it was mentioned to get our reaction. When you present the situation it is assumed that you want feedback on the situation. If you don't, then just present the facts. The facts here, according to you, are: The HR manager was rude and your friend is afraid to say something.

[Rebecca VA]

I agree. Adding that the supervisor is Jewish simply inflamed the situation.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The facts here, according to you, are: The HR manager was rude and your friend is afraid to say something.

 

And that somehow you think it's your job to fix it for her. Did she ask you to fix it for her?

[Anne in CA]

I haven't read all the responses, but I want to say that I think the HR manager was beyond rude.

 

I have worked in the catering department of a 3 Star Hotel for 15 years. It is not an exaggeration to say that I could bet my own life that in five minutes the Muslim woman could have had a nice lunch with no additonal charge, made in a noncontaminated enviornment, by people delighted to do it. The HR manager is certainly aware of this, even though I don't know her personally I know how this works.

 

And to all posters who think that people with special dietary needs need to make them known in advance to an event at a nice hotel, that is not today's market. Every day I work I have multiple gluten free, no corn products, nut allergy, ect with no advance notice and we graciously accomodate such people at no additonal cost to our guest. Last year we lost money on an event in which more than 30 people needed gluten free meals and we said NOTHING to the host. We made the meals in less than 15 minutes and served them with appologies for the wait. We even had gluten free deserts for each of them. Believe me the HR person knows this when she agreed to host the event.

 

In my opinion someone needs to report the HR manager to someone with autority and make sure that someone is aware that this person has a personal issue with taking care of employees.

[nono]

Well, I'd be ticked as all get out if someone only served roast beef on a Friday in Lent. Heck, I went to a college that had a huge Jewish community, and our dining hall always had non-meat entrees on Fridays in Lent.

 

BUT, I see you're in TX, not in the Northeast. Having run events for non-employees to attend, we always had special tables for differing religious practices. I see that as a good thing. Instead of trying to strip away one's religious practices, we always sought to help those visiting us uphold their beliefs.

 

Anyway, :grouphug:. Only you can choose if/what to say.

[Lovin Learnin]

I haven't read all the responses, but I want to say that I think the HR manager was beyond rude.

 

I have worked in the catering department of a 3 Star Hotel for 15 years. It is not an exaggeration to say that I could bet my own life that in five minutes the Muslim woman could have had a nice lunch with no additonal charge, made in a noncontaminated enviornment, by people delighted to do it. The HR manager is certainly aware of this, even though I don't know her personally I know how this works.

 

And to all posters who think that people with special dietary needs need to make them known in advance to an event at a nice hotel, that is not today's market. Every day I work I have multiple gluten free, no corn products, nut allergy, ect with no advance notice and we graciously accomodate such people at no additonal cost to our guest. Last year we lost money on an event in which more than 30 people needed gluten free meals and we said NOTHING to the host. We made the meals in less than 15 minutes and served them with appologies for the wait. We even had gluten free deserts for each of them. Believe me the HR person knows this when she agreed to host the event.

 

In my opinion someone needs to report the HR manager to someone with autority and make sure that someone is aware that this person has a personal issue with taking care of employees.

 

I hear you and I believe you. But the truth of the matter is that the person who needed the special meal never said a word. SHE did not request a different meal, people around her did. That is a lesson I make my kids learn. If you want to be heard you need to speak up. I really struggle with expecting others to know your needs if you don't make your wishes known.

[CarolfromIL]

I think to be fair, HR should anticipate all religious holidays and have a Rabbi, Monk, Priest, etc. on call to consult dietary needs during meetings. Maybe the Rabbi should personally cook the food?

 

Seriously, working in a large corporation, you need to stand up for yourself..... Not sit and fret if the HR manager is rude or not. Business is not about making friends ---- grow a thick skin. If the friend or you are upset, take the issue to your HR V.P or an officer in the company----though you will likely be labeled a trouble maker......just being honest.

[Mama Geek]

The only only thing forcing companies to make sure there is something for everyone will result in is no more employer provided lunches. Companies don't have to provide meals of any sort for anyone and yes it is nice if they go out of the way for special dietary needs, but as soon as you start requiring it, that is a different story.

[In2why]

No, I am not "assuming" anything. Please re-read this thread again, specifically the last few pages. It is people here ignoring what I wrote, and injecting their own opinions and/or interpretations, when I haven't asked for, nor needed them.

 

Do you have a comment to make about how to deal with a rude manager? Please share. But, I don't appreciate having people who weren't even there tell me a, the lady wasn't rude, and b, it wasn't hurtful to Z.

 

She was, and it was.

 

 

If it were me I would let it go, but based on your posts and feelings shared you probably need to quit your job in protest and make sure that everyone knows exactly why you quit. Might seem an over reaction but I did exactly that when I had a boss who expected me to prick his finger every morning to test his sugar levels and then insisted on screaming at me to bring him toilet paper while he sat on the "throne".

[In2why]

I could see the HR person starting to worry that everyone would want their own individual meal made by the kitchen, and then things could get out of control. Who wouldn't want a fresh salad from the kitchen, made to their specific tastes, than something off of a lunch buffet? I would have had to have veggies and a drink, because I wouldn't eat lunch meat (sodium) or cheese (dairy allergy.) It's no big deal, though, because I can eat something else later.

 

That could get expensive, though, and I can see her not wanting to start a trend that way.

 

The thing about leadership is that people have to make decisions based on a lot of different information that not everyone else has, and so their decisions, biewed through our limited info, can look bad. Perhaps someone else has complained that they want individual ordered meals, too, or a few people, and she had to tell them no. Without asking the HR person, we just don't know.

 

I would encourage my friend to just ask the HR person why it happened, if it bothers her enough to do so.

 

 

This probably should be a spin off, but this thread also made me wonder if this issue isn't the reason quite a few companies no longer try to mix business and socializing. To be totally safe as a company and not have to worry about offending anyone I would job stop serving food or having meetings off the work premises.

[In2why]

You're right, and I came to check on my break.

 

You say that I don't need to convince anyone, but have you seen the number of posts here flatly denying what I've shared? I came for advice, but instead I'm being made to feel like I have to justify why I'm offended first, before anyone even accepts I have grounds to be upset.

 

If I asked for an interpretation of events, that'd be one thing. But I didn't. I just asked for advice in how to deal with workplace rudeness.

 

 

I think you get insulted easily. I apologize because that was not my intention and I will bow out of this thread, because I can feel myself getting argumentative. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[RanchGirl]

Didn't your first post ask if people thought the manager was being rude? I see it's been edited now, but I thought that was part of your original question. I think it's bordering on comical that you are so perturbed about this perceived slight to your friend that you're going to speak to management on her behalf. If I were in her place I would...

 

(1) Request the event planner put in my special dietary request in advance of catered company events

(2) Get up and ask the caterers/servers if they could make me a special meal

(3) Eat other items at the table, not just chips (bread, cheese, etc.)

(4) Bring my own meal

OR

(5) not eat anything.. sometimes I'm just not hungry at lunchtime.

 

What I wouldn't do, is make a fuss at the table, gripe about my manager with co-workers afterward, or expect others to solve my issues for me.

 

As for the new question in the edited post, how to deal with the manager, my advice is to stop giving her the evil eye and pretend all this ridiculousness never happened.

[Jennifer3141]

I see what the OP means. I used to do HR and I would have been embarressed that I didn't consider this when I was planning the meal (if the HR person had anything to do with meal planning!). If I had been this company's HR eprson, I would have gotten up and asked to speak to a catering employee and asked for help. And then I'd make a mental note to myself to handle this better next time.

[YLVD]

So what if her family were killed by Muslim extremists? Does that mean that the families of the Oklahoma City bomber's victims have carte blanch permission to act rudely to all Army veterans?

 

As for the cost, I know for a fact that that's not the reason. We have meetings in this hotel all the time, and know the chef and most of the kitchen staff. If we ask for it, they are very happy to give it. Which is the way all quality full service hotels work btw, since I worked for several while finishing my degree. When a business is contracting to use your meting space, and to have catered food, the hotel staff is not going to get petty about a $10 charge with one of the meeting planners or managers. Actually, that's a good way to get your head bitten off by your front desk manager. Drinks, food, room upgrades--these are things that are frequently handed out to corporate customers without additional charge, especially when they are making big purchases like meeting space, room blocks, and so forth.

 

:iagree:

 

I agree with you on all of this.

[Anne in CA]

I am really surprised how many people are saying the muslim woman should stand up for herself and OP should stay out of this. In my workplace we have a harassment free workplace policy that would mean a write up for the HR person in question, this was not a percieved slight IMO. This woman is a bully and should be put in her place. In my place of work she could be reported to any manager, BY ANY WITNESS for refusing to accomodate a completely reasonable need. It's not like the woman was even asking for anything. To deny someone so humble is extra nasty, IMO.

 

It seems to me many people who home school are pretty street smart about taking care of themselves. Anti harassment policies are for people who are timid about standing up for themselves. Even grown women, especially a woman from a culture that reveres authority, can have a hard time speaking up for themselves.

[Kate in Arabia]

I think the time has already passed for you to have done anything on a casual level; I mean, you could have asked as you were walking out of the meeting if there was something wrong or a new policy or whatever vis a vis special orders. If you go to hr now about it I think it would exacerbate or amplify a possibly innocuous or isolated event.

 

In your friend's place, I would keep the incident in mind but wouldn't do or say anything unless I noticed a continuing pattern of behavior with this person. I wouldn't even think badly towards this person unless I had additional reason(s) to do so, there are just too many unknowns to me (judging only by what you've said here), the main one being why she gestured no. The boss who insisted I go to a bar for a drink was insensitive that one time, but otherwise she was a lovely lady, kwim? Now if she made going to the bar a frequent thing then I would have said something to her; or if she slighted me in other ways I would have gone above her to complain; but as it was, that was an isolated event and I never said anything.

 

hth!

[lula]

I am not sure if it was rude or not rude but if you were there and perceived it as rude I will take your word for it. However, I do think from an HR perspective that special requests should come from the person who needs the special request. (this IMO would not involve only dietary needs but also mobility issues, etc.) I don't think that HR refusing a request that does not come from the woman herself is harassment and on it's face even if she refused the request I am not certain it would be harassment depending upon other factors, food availability, procedure, etc. (which it seems like there may have been options but I wouldn't feel comfortable calling it harassment without further inquiry.)

 

Also, is it a good precedence to have requests occur at an event and then scramble for the request? Was it clear that she wanted another meal? If your friend has been a part of similar experiences before and knew of the event couldn't a request have been made in a more timely fashion? As the HR person I would have been annoyed at having a request made by a long-standing employee at the actual event, if the employee had had prior notice of the event. How had this been handled in the past? Has she made requests in the past? I don't think it is a good precedent to infer diet from one's religion. After all, not all Muslims keep the same dietary requirements and even if they did it feels kind of invasive for an employer to make such decisions in effect for the employee without the employee bringing it up or requesting it.

 

 

If the person without the need does not make the request I don't think HR should consider it. It feels out of line to make a request for another person when the request involves a special or "not part of the norm" requirement: leave it up to the person with the request or need to make the request. So in this case, as HR, I would have been fine if the woman made the request herself but I would not have followed through on the request if someone else made it.

 

This sounds odd but it actually comes after much experience dealing with law school students with mobility issues, special accommodation needs in classrooms, food prep etc. The practice was that in the school or professional setting, where a system is in place to make a request, it is overstepping for another to make the request or assume that one should be made. This rule ensured that only the person in need or desiring a special consideration be granted one and it not happen to single out the person, create a passive aggressive communication situation or potentially insult another person by requesting help or treatment that they did not desire or need. For example in this case nobody else could have asked for the special meal except for your friend. Assumptions based on religion would not have been made. This also ensured for example, that other Muslims in the future would not have had their dietary needs assumed or made for them "just in case" etc. Let me stress that this was in a peer group situation (all law students) who were dealing with professors, administrators etc. much like an employee situation where you are dealing with a boss, HR, etc.

 

With this as background I think that your friend if she so desires should ask for accommodations for her dietary requirements for herself and she should address this current matter privately. Perhaps, there should be general discussion on how such or similar situations should be handled in the future.I don't think it is too much to ask that the person who has a request do the asking.

 

As a side note people tend not to like to hear that food is "contaminated" perhaps there could be better phraseology? (this coming from a person who raised to call certain things "unclean" or "unfit" and learning how hard it is for others to hear that when they are eating the item)

Edited October 7, 2011 by lula

[RanchGirl]

I am really surprised how many people are saying the muslim woman should stand up for herself and OP should stay out of this. In my workplace we have a harassment free workplace policy that would mean a write up for the HR person in question, this was not a percieved slight IMO. This woman is a bully and should be put in her place. In my place of work she could be reported to any manager, BY ANY WITNESS for refusing to accomodate a completely reasonable need. It's not like the woman was even asking for anything. To deny someone so humble is extra nasty, IMO.

 

It seems to me many people who home school are pretty street smart about taking care of themselves. Anti harassment policies are for people who are timid about standing up for themselves. Even grown women, especially a woman from a culture that reveres authority, can have a hard time speaking up for themselves.

 

Time to call in a lawyer. Maybe the ACLU will take the case?

[silliness7]

2 pages in and 13 to go...

 

I'm wondering if she wanted another meal and it was no big deal because people request special stuff all the time and that's the hotel's job and it wouldn't cost the company any extra money (sorry about the run-on)

 

Why would she need the approval of the HR person for that? Why would a shake of her head mean she couldn't get a different plate?

 

I used to do business lunches in a different life. If something is wrong with your food you talk to the people serving the food, not your boss or the HR person.

 

I wonder if there were conversations behind the scenes prior to the event. Something doesn't add up.

[silliness7]

Uh, no? They make the food. Banquet staff are the ones who lay it out.

 

In any case, the food layout is for a group, not an individual. This is why it is (or has been) acceptable for individuals in a meeting to place special orders if they need it. There's a lady in accounting who breastfeeds, and she eats a gluten-free diet. Nobody messed with her last month when she asked the server for a dish completely different from the rest of us at the table. Nobody even cared (why would we?!).

 

Is there some reason why people here don't want to believe me when I say that the only thing "special" about Z's request is that it got denied??

 

Did she have to ask HR or the boss for permission before asking the server for a different dish?

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 pages in and 13 to go...

 

I'm wondering if she wanted another meal and it was no big deal because people request special stuff all the time and that's the hotel's job and it wouldn't cost the company any extra money (sorry about the run-on)

 

Why would she need the approval of the HR person for that? Why would a shake of her head mean she couldn't get a different plate?

 

I used to do business lunches in a different life. If something is wrong with your food you talk to the people serving the food, not your boss or the HR person.

 

I wonder if there were conversations behind the scenes prior to the event. Something doesn't add up.

 

That's why someone (and I think that Z is the best person to do it but the OP could do it if she really wanted) should ASK to find out the background instead of just assuming what is going on.