Too tough of a punishment? or a natural consequence?

[threelilbirds]

Update post #56

with the help of my grandmother, I was able to get myself and 2 of my boys disneyland season passes. I had been saving money take a trip down there, and had about 150 dollars in my wallet. I just found my wallet in my room on the floor, and 70 dollars was missing, I asked them about it, and finally got out of DS 5 that he took it out, and was put it in his bedroom. (he has done this before, and been explained to that he should not take money out of mommy or daddys wallets)...well, I found the $20 bill, but there is still a fifty missing. The major problem is, He has such a bad attitude about it, I am trying to get him to help me clean up his room, to help find it, and he is giving SUCH attitude for a 5yr old boy...grrrrrrr...

So, I promised DS 10 that we would go, his birthday, great grades and hard work in school.

Is it too bad of a punishment to make DS 5 stay home this time? We will be going again this year. so its not a once in a lifetime thing or anything..but I just feel so guilty leaving him home..:confused:

Edited June 7, 2011 by threelilbirds

[5KidzRUs]

I would take him - but figure out some way to punish him for taking the money first.

The first thing I thought of when I read your post is I would go into his room with a garbage bag. I would start putting all his items in it one by one until the money was found. Then I would figure out a torturous way to make him earn his items back. Hopefully he will be indignant that you TOOK his items and he might learn a bit of empathy.

Don't deny him Disneyland though - trust me, he will be reminding you of it when he is 25 - how you ran off to Disney and abandoned him at home! LOL!

Edited June 6, 2011 by 5KidzRUs

[4everHis]

If you know he'll have a chance to go again(though I wouldn't tell him that), I'd leave him home with the clear understanding that it isn't even about the $$$. He lied and is a thief. Missing a day at DW seems small in comparison to juvenile detention.

[threelilbirds]

If you know he'll have a chance to go again(though I wouldn't tell him that), I'd leave him home with the clear understanding that it isn't even about the $$$. He lied and is a thief. Missing a day at DW seems small in comparison to juvenile detention.

 

Well, and this is kinda how I feel. I have been having problems with his behavior for while now. I feel like he needs to have some sort of consequences for his bad behavior, and see that wehn he is good, THAT is when he gets rewarded with disneyland..

[Trish]

If you know he'll have a chance to go again(though I wouldn't tell him that), I'd leave him home with the clear understanding that it isn't even about the $$$. He lied and is a thief. Missing a day at DW seems small in comparison to juvenile detention.

 

I'm sorry, but staying home from Disneyland for the day is too big a punishment for a disciplinary infraction by a 5-year-old. If he were 10, or even 7, I might feel differently. Five years olds are just getting used to the concept of fantasy vs reality, lying vs telling the truth, etc. They don't have "bad attitudes" (as if they can control them at that age), they have emerging personalities that they are just beginning to learn to understand.

 

Punishment, yes. Make it fit the crime. Put some favorite toy away for a week or something. But this is a teen-sized punishment for a 5-year-old. I remember "stealing" a toy from a store when I was 4. My mother walked me down the street so we could return it. Which is good and correct, I remembered it. But I had no clue what "stealing" was. I thought they toys were just there for the kids! No concept of paying or anything else.

 

I don't think the OP will want the memory of her time at Disneyland WITHOUT her 5-year-old. JMO.

[Peela]

I am wondering what the time gap is between now and going to Disneyland. If the whole stealing thing can be dealt with beforehand, I think I too would want to take him.

I think thats a tough call to make, because its your kid and his personality. Some kids might just get bitter over that, and angrier. And its a big consequence for a 5yo- and 5yos don't have much of a sense of time so the relationship between stealing and going to Disney might not be grasped well. Or it might. Depends on your kid.

I would consider deeply if you are punishing him in a way that will be effective for him, or just to do something in the hope he changes.

I would also keep my wallet and all money in the house out of his reach, and also give him some money of his very own (once this issues has blown over) . If your wallet is on the floor, he is not being too sneaky! He is attracted to money- that is natural- and is at an age where it is very difficult to control his impulses- but of course he needs to learn.

I will say- in my home, he would go to Disney and alternative avenues would be found for the consequences of taking mummie's purse- immediately. Not that that issue wouldnt be dealt with seriously- it would- but I wouldn't link the 2 and I don't think it is a "natural consequence"- I think it is a punishment.

[threelilbirds]

I seee what you mean, but I dont agree with the emerging personality part..to an extent. I would understand if it was just the taking the money part, but helping find it, and then the attitude that he is still giving me, blatant disobeying, the dirty looks, etc..its really bad right now from him. Im just not sure what to do..I feel like he needs to be punished for his attitude about the whole thing also..

 

I'm sorry, but staying home from Disneyland for the day is too big a punishment for a disciplinary infraction by a 5-year-old. If he were 10, or even 7, I might feel differently. Five years olds are just getting used to the concept of fantasy vs reality, lying vs telling the truth, etc. They don't have "bad attitudes" (as if they can control them at that age), they have emerging personalities that they are just beginning to learn to understand.

 

Punishment, yes. Make it fit the crime. Put some favorite toy away for a week or something. But this is a teen-sized punishment for a 5-year-old. I remember "stealing" a toy from a store when I was 4. My mother walked me down the street so we could return it. Which is good and correct, I remembered it. But I had no clue what "stealing" was. I thought they toys were just there for the kids! No concept of paying or anything else.

 

I don't think the OP will want the memory of her time at Disneyland WITHOUT her 5-year-old. JMO.

[Caitilin]

I agree with Trish that this is too large a punishment for a child that age, but I do see what you mean about wanting to have a meaningful consequence for him. Is there anything specific that you were planning on doing while there that he could be required to opt out of? Buying Mickey ears, or whatever you might do? Skip a ride that others get to go on? That would be serious but not *so* large, KWIM? Best to you as you decide!:001_smile:

[threelilbirds]

We are supposed to go tomorrow..

 

I am wondering what the time gap is between now and going to Disneyland. If the whole stealing thing can be dealt with beforehand, I think I too would want to take him.

I think thats a tough call to make, because its your kid and his personality. Some kids might just get bitter over that, and angrier. And its a big consequence for a 5yo- and 5yos don't have much of a sense of time so the relationship between stealing and going to Disney might not be grasped well. Or it might. Depends on your kid.

I would consider deeply if you are punishing him in a way that will be effective for him, or just to do something in the hope he changes.

I would also keep my wallet and all money in the house out of his reach, and also give him some money of his very own (once this issues has blown over) . If your wallet is on the floor, he is not being too sneaky! He is attracted to money- that is natural- and is at an age where it is very difficult to control his impulses- but of course he needs to learn.

I will say- in my home, he would go to Disney and alternative avenues would be found for the consequences of taking mummie's purse- immediately. Not that that issue wouldnt be dealt with seriously- it would- but I wouldn't link the 2 and I don't think it is a "natural consequence"- I think it is a punishment.

[Mommy22alyns]

Maybe I'm mean, but I wouldn't take him. This isn't a once-in-a-lifetime trip; he'll have the opportunity to go later this year. I just don't see taking him to Disneyland tomorrow when he just stole money and lied about it.

[clarkacademy]

I would never reward stealing in any way. Stealing can become a major problem. If you told he is not going then stand by it so he learns you mean business. To cock an atitude after getting caught, wow. There is no way he would go with me to the store let alone Disney. Stealing is major if he gets away with it now you have taught him that it is OK.

 

When he steals from a store he won't just lose disneyland. Do him a big favor now and show him this will not be tolerated EVER.

[5KidzRUs]

Curious, did he say why he took the money?

[MindyD]

That's tough. You're not doing him any favors by letting any of this slide because all of these behaviors and attitudes will cause big problems for him in the future. If this is an on-going problem I'd consider leaving him home. If he won't behave well at home, how much harder will it be at Disney World when it's hot and crowded? I'm not sure though, 5 is still young... I'm no help. :) Whatever you choose, I doubt he'll be scarred for life. And even if he does remind you for the rest of your life how you left him at home, I'll be he'll never forget WHY he get left in the first place either.

[Impish]

Too big a consequence for a 5 yo, imo. I just wouldn't buy him anything there, and explain that you don't have the $ since he took it and lost it.

[ChristusG]

I think the punishment is probably too big for the age.

 

Were you allowing the kids to purchase any souvenirs tomorrow? If so, I'd take that opportunity away from him. Tell him that since he stole and lied, he lost the priveledge of getting a souvenir.

[JennyD]

I'm sorry, but staying home from Disneyland for the day is too big a punishment for a disciplinary infraction by a 5-year-old. If he were 10, or even 7, I might feel differently. Five years olds are just getting used to the concept of fantasy vs reality, lying vs telling the truth, etc. They don't have "bad attitudes" (as if they can control them at that age), they have emerging personalities that they are just beginning to learn to understand.

 

Punishment, yes. Make it fit the crime. Put some favorite toy away for a week or something. But this is a teen-sized punishment for a 5-year-old. I remember "stealing" a toy from a store when I was 4. My mother walked me down the street so we could return it. Which is good and correct, I remembered it. But I had no clue what "stealing" was. I thought they toys were just there for the kids! No concept of paying or anything else.

 

I don't think the OP will want the memory of her time at Disneyland WITHOUT her 5-year-old. JMO.

 

:iagree:

 

Even apart from being out of scale, I think it's also way too delayed/removed from the actual misbehavior to be at all effective. I find that if it isn't immediate, it's useless. And the next day, forget it. Each day is like a whole new era.

[JessieC]

I'm sorry, but staying home from Disneyland for the day is too big a punishment for a disciplinary infraction by a 5-year-old. If he were 10, or even 7, I might feel differently. Five years olds are just getting used to the concept of fantasy vs reality, lying vs telling the truth, etc. They don't have "bad attitudes" (as if they can control them at that age), they have emerging personalities that they are just beginning to learn to understand.

 

Punishment, yes. Make it fit the crime. Put some favorite toy away for a week or something. But this is a teen-sized punishment for a 5-year-old. I remember "stealing" a toy from a store when I was 4. My mother walked me down the street so we could return it. Which is good and correct, I remembered it. But I had no clue what "stealing" was. I thought they toys were just there for the kids! No concept of paying or anything else.

 

I don't think the OP will want the memory of her time at Disneyland WITHOUT her 5-year-old. JMO.

:iagree:

 

He is too young for this punishment. Make him pay you back with 50 chores over the next 50 days instead.

[jewellsmommy]

I would take him - but figure out some way to punish him for taking the money first.

The first thing I thought of when I read your post is I would go into his room with a garbage bag. I would start putting all his items in it one by one until the money was found. Then I would figure out a torturous way to make him earn his items back. Hopefully he will be indignant that you TOOK his items and he might learn a bit of empathy.

Don't deny him Disneyland though - trust me, he will be reminding you of it when he is 25 - how you ran off to Disney and abandoned him at home! LOL!

 

 

:iagree: Take every toy if you have to. Tell him that you will show him grace and allow him to go to disney, but that he will have to earn his toys back.

[Skadi]

If it were a relatively isolated event, I'd say let it slide and take him anyway. But since this has been an ongoing problem, he didn't show remorse after being found out, has even gone so far as to be disrespectful while you're trying to find it, and this isn't a once-in-a-lifetime trip...I say he shouldn't get to go. He needs a huge wake-up call about stealing and lying, not to mention being disrespectful to you. Family trips are a luxury, not something he is automatically entitled to.

[K&Rs Mom]

Maybe I'm mean, but I wouldn't take him. This isn't a once-in-a-lifetime trip; he'll have the opportunity to go later this year. I just don't see taking him to Disneyland tomorrow when he just stole money and lied about it.

 

:iagree: I'd feel differently if it was a huge vacation, but since he'll get another chance before long this sounds like a perfect opportunity to show him he can't act this way and still get what he wants.

[threelilbirds]

Thank you for all of the replies..I am still on the fence, I am going to talk with my hubby tonight about it when he gets home. We have season [passes, so it is not something that he will never be able to do again. So I dont feel it is too big of a punishment.

BUT...I am still on the fence...lol. Not sure that I WANT to leave him home, because I was looking forward to enjoying the day with him..but as a parent, I think that you need to be firm sometimes, and do things you dont want to do. He is still being very disrespectful tonight also, and it IS an ongoing discipline problem...

[LittleIzumi]

Too big a consequence for a 5 yo, imo. I just wouldn't buy him anything there, and explain that you don't have the $ since he took it and lost it.

:iagree:

[WiseOwlKnits]

Since you have season passes, I would leave him home. I can tolerate a lot, but not lying. And especially not a cocky attitude on top of lying.

[Trish]

Maybe I'm mean, but I wouldn't take him. This isn't a once-in-a-lifetime trip; he'll have the opportunity to go later this year. I just don't see taking him to Disneyland tomorrow when he just stole money and lied about it.

 

I gather the reason she found the money is that he 'fessed up. "Stole money" is such a harsh term to use for a 5-year-old. I think they have very little concept of money and its importance. Does he know the difference between $70 in large bills and $10 in small bills? I doubt it.

 

So the "money" is the same as any other thing mom and dad say not to play with, but as someone else mentioned, impulse control is something children develop over time. You don't tell them ONCE and they instantly get it, and the importance of it. You tell them 10 times, you may tell them a hundred times. With maturity, they get it.

 

A small punishment now would go a long way. I think a huge punishment now (and leaving him home for Disneyland would be huge to a 5-year-old) would be damaging in terms of the point she is trying to get across. I might do something like, ask him what he did wrong, why it was wrong, and why he shouldn't do it again. Have him rehearse those answers if he doesn't know right away. Tell him he needs to get the right answers before taking the trip.

 

That's it.

[trailofsparks]

If you know he'll have a chance to go again(though I wouldn't tell him that), I'd leave him home with the clear understanding that it isn't even about the $$$. He lied and is a thief. Missing a day at DW seems small in comparison to juvenile detention.

 

This was my first thought. BUT never brand a kid by calling him a thief; he stold money and if he continues on that path, he could become a thief. Imo, 5 years is old enough to reap these consequences, since you have taught him before. Also, his attitude while looking through his room would bother me. He is not remorseful, it seems. This would concern me.

 

When my children were young, dh and I really came down on them for lying. Now all of them are honest - even when it "hurts" them. At times it was hard to meet the consequences, but I am so glad we did. We have lots of trust in our family.

[Aelwydd]

If it were a relatively isolated event, I'd say let it slide and take him anyway. But since this has been an ongoing problem, he didn't show remorse after being found out, has even gone so far as to be disrespectful while you're trying to find it, and this isn't a once-in-a-lifetime trip...I say he shouldn't get to go. He needs a huge wake-up call about stealing and lying, not to mention being disrespectful to you. Family trips are a luxury, not something he is automatically entitled to.

 

:iagree:

 

I'd be very concerned about the pattern here, and the fact he is not showing any remorse. To me, $70 is a huge deal. It's a bitter punishment to be denied Disneyland at age 5, but man, you do not want to appear to tolerate or abide stealing at all. Were it my son, I'd do the trash bag thing suggested by another poster, AND I'd cancel Disney for him.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Thank you for all of the replies..I am still on the fence, I am going to talk with my hubby tonight about it when he gets home. We have season [passes, so it is not something that he will never be able to do again. So I dont feel it is too big of a punishment.

BUT...I am still on the fence...lol. Not sure that I WANT to leave him home, because I was looking forward to enjoying the day with him..but as a parent, I think that you need to be firm sometimes, and do things you dont want to do. He is still being very disrespectful tonight also, and it IS an ongoing discipline problem...

 

I think the cancelling of Disneyland when you have season passes is a different (and not as big) a thing as the cancelling of Disneyland when you only go on rare occasions as a huge treat or family trip. I would cancel.

[Joanne]

Where is your $50?

 

I'm not a believer that a 5 year old who steals is in a linear progression to juvie. It is very, very common for young children to steal money from mom and dad (or siblings).

 

I think the real issue is the continuing disrespect of family and rules, of which the money is only one part.

 

I think a case could be made either way on the trip, but I frankly lean towards "no", especially with the attitude you say he has this evening.

[Wamommy]

Way too harsh of a consequence for a 5 year old. I have a 4.5 year old and he is still a baby. He has no clue that 50 dollars is any different than $1. I would be torturing myself if I went to Disneyland and left him home. I think you should think of another consequence.

[simka2]

I am just going to give you my perspective since we have been thru this. I have a ds who got into a habit of stealing things. I was devestated and afraid. I didn't understand how he could continue to do it even though he knew it was wrong. :confused:

 

Thankfully my dh went thru a similar phase as a child and it did not have any refelction on the wonderful man of God he is today.

 

Here is what worked for us. Dh took my son aside and TALKED with him. He RELATED to him. He CONFESSED that he had done similar things as a child. AFTER that he gently explained the hurt and broken trust this causes. THEN they discussed an age appropriate way for him to make restitution. Finally, they hugged and joked and we all moved on with our wonderful lives. :D

 

I won't lie and say this was an immeditate miracle fix. This was a "phase." Eventually, his maturity level grew enough for him to exhibit the proper amount of self-control.

The long term win: He is not afraid to "fess up" when he fails. He is confident in our love and willingness to walk with him thru it all.

 

Please take him. Yes he should have a consequence. The biggest being NO extras at the park. But, it is not worth passing up on the family memory. You do not know what tommorrow will bring. Enjoy your children! :001_smile:

[QueenCat]

If you leave him home, does that mean dad has to stay home too? And older son now only has mom instead of the whole family there to celebrate his birthday? If so, I would take him, so the whole family is there for the birthday celebration. Consequences can come in another way.

[Unicorn.]

Maybe I'm mean, but I wouldn't take him. This isn't a once-in-a-lifetime trip; he'll have the opportunity to go later this year. I just don't see taking him to Disneyland tomorrow when he just stole money and lied about it.

 

:iagree: Leave him at home! Tell him he can't go, because he knows he isn't too take money from others. Natural consequence. 5 is not too young to learn not to steal.

[Jean in Newcastle]

He doesn't have to understand all the intricacies of property and stealing. Mommy told him not to do something. He disobeyed Mommy.

[kolamum]

If missing a day trip will help him understand the severity of the wrongs done, I'd do it.

 

I once heard the suggestion to break a "liar" by doing the following. Tell them you're going to take them to McDonald's for fries. Pump up the whole thing BIG TIME. Remind them constantly. Load them up. Take them. Drive right past McDonald's and go run an errand instead. When he points you what you did say, "Yeah, I know. I lied." Do not take them there. Explain that the hurt and disappointment he feels right now by how you treated him is exactly how he makes the family feel when he tells lies. The person who did this said it was REALLY hard to keep on driving and not stop while their child was crying. Me? I've never been brave enough. ;)

 

 

If you do take him to DW, will there be spending money involved? I'd not permit him to have any. If he asks why I'd state it's because 1, he lied. 2, he stole. 3, he disobeyed. 4, he refused to make things right.

 

Honestly, if the trip is soon I don't think it's too much. Lying and stealing, especially if chronic problems, need to be nipped in the bum quickly. If this will do it then isn't it better to have him heartbroken for a day then in jail down the road?

 

:grouphug: Parenting isn't for wimps, but man it can be hard at times!

 

 

PS, he's probably giving you attitude because he doesn't get that what he did is wrong. Which means you might need to come up with a way to SHOW him how wrong what he did was. Does he have a favorite toy you can pinch and "lose" for a time? I pinched my eldest's beloved blanket when he was 4 or 5. I hid it and informed him that "I took it without asking and am not sure where I put it down now!" I shrugged told him I was sorry and walked off. He was devastated and began looking and when he asked me to help I only did so half heartedly. Once he understood how it feels to be on the other side of the table I told him I was sorry I took the blanket without asking and then properly looked and gave it back.

[Peela]

I once heard the suggestion to break a "liar" by doing the following. Tell them you're going to take them to McDonald's for fries. Pump up the whole thing BIG TIME. Remind them constantly. Load them up. Take them. Drive right past McDonald's and go run an errand instead. When he points you what you did say, "Yeah, I know. I lied." Do not take them there. Explain that the hurt and disappointment he feels right now by how you treated him is exactly how he makes the family feel when he tells lies. The person who did this said it was REALLY hard to keep on driving and not stop while their child was crying. Me? I've never been brave enough. ;)

 

 

 

I have read this strategy many times on this message board and it has never failed to appall me.

This kid is 5 years old. I couldn't do that to anyone. I think the fact you can't shows you still have a soft heart.

[DarlaS]

I have read this strategy many times on this message board and it has never failed to appall me.

This kid is 5 years old. I couldn't do that to anyone. I think the fact you can't shows you still have a soft heart.

 

:iagree:

 

Kind of ranks right up there with biting a toddler to let them know what it feels like--and frankly it's just as misguided.

 

I'm an adult. I can handle the disappointment of one of my kids telling me a lie. I'm not a 5 yo anymore. It does NOT feel the same when you lie to them. It's not the same at all. :confused:

[Moxie]

I have a 5 year old. I can't imagine that he could do something so bad that I'd consider leaving him out of the family fun for a day. He is only 5!! I'm not in favor of punishments that exclude someone from the family. It feels too much like rejection to me. And I don't think there is any way a 5 year old would understand "I don't get to go to Disney today because I did XYZ". I don't think their brains work like that at such a young age.

 

ETA: I really like the idea of packing up his toys until you find the $ and he earns the toys back through work.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Moxie

[SweetMissMagnolia]

oh man tough decision--if i understood right-you have season pass so that means you can go multiple times during the season--I might consider leaving him home the first time....or at least letting that punishment be menitioned and if he gave you back the money then maybe let him go? tough call--did you get the money back?

[QueenCat]

I have a 5 year old. I can't imagine that he could do something so bad that I'd consider leaving him out of the family fun for a day. He is only 5!! I'm not in favor of punishments that exclude someone from the family. It feels too much like rejection to me. And I don't think there is any way a 5 year old would understand "I don't get to go to Disney today because I did XYZ". I don't think their brains work like that at such a young age.

 

 

:iagree:Same here.

[Pretty in Pink]

I think that is a pretty harsh punishment for a 5yo. At that age they are not clearly thinking through to the consequences of their actions. Is money generally tight around your home, and are your children aware of that fact? Does your 5yo get the opportunity to manage his own money on a regular basis? He may be feeling stingy about money. I would talk to him about what happened rather than punish him this time, unless his stealing money from your wallet is an ongoing habit.

 

ETA: May I ask how you have handled the situation thus far? Were you very stern if you scolded him? Did you raise your voice? Have you already threatened to take away the Disney trip? Have you both had an opportunity to spend time away from one another and cool off?

Edited June 6, 2011 by Pretty in Pink

[Joanne]

I once heard the suggestion to break a "liar" by doing the following. Tell them you're going to take them to McDonald's for fries. Pump up the whole thing BIG TIME. Remind them constantly. Load them up. Take them. Drive right past McDonald's and go run an errand instead. When he points you what you did say, "Yeah, I know. I lied." Do not take them there. Explain that the hurt and disappointment he feels right now by how you treated him is exactly how he makes the family feel when he tells lies. The person who did this said it was REALLY hard to keep on driving and not stop while their child was crying. Me? I've never been brave enough. ;)

 

 

.

 

Or, like many other things in parenting, simply do the best you can while you wait for the child to outgrow this developmentally expected stage. ;)

 

You can't discipline a child into a later stage of development, maturity, or functioning.

[Pretty in Pink]

Or, like many other things in parenting, simply do the best you can while you wait for the child to outgrow this developmentally expected stage. ;)

 

You can't discipline a child into a later stage of development, maturity, or functioning.[/QUOTE]

 

Very wise words.

[SweetBean]

Maybe I'm mean, but I wouldn't take him. This isn't a once-in-a-lifetime trip; he'll have the opportunity to go later this year. I just don't see taking him to Disneyland tomorrow when he just stole money and lied about it.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[LibraryLover]

I have read this strategy many times on this message board and it has never failed to appall me.

This kid is 5 years old. I couldn't do that to anyone. I think the fact you can't shows you still have a soft heart.

 

 

I agree. The tactics of discipline sometimes suggested here, and elsehwere, are often horrible, and I can see why so many kids give up even trying to be 'good' at an early age. I am not surprised when some older kids are impossible/get into trouble. They do not trust their parents, and many lack connection.

[SweetBean]

I once heard the suggestion to break a "liar" by doing the following. Tell them you're going to take them to McDonald's for fries. Pump up the whole thing BIG TIME. Remind them constantly. Load them up. Take them. Drive right past McDonald's and go run an errand instead. When he points you what you did say, "Yeah, I know. I lied." Do not take them there. Explain that the hurt and disappointment he feels right now by how you treated him is exactly how he makes the family feel when he tells lies. The person who did this said it was REALLY hard to keep on driving and not stop while their child was crying. Me? I've never been brave enough. ;)

 

 

I wouln't do this because it would be modeling bad behavior.

[LostSurprise]

I think the focus of this thread is what we thing the OP should do. Not commentary about other parents' opinions.

 

I wouldn't consider it 'theft' at that age unless he completely understood that he was taking something away from you (happens often, he hides it, tries to use it unseen by you). As a family you share many things, and 5 is too young to understand every boundary within a family--what can be borrowed and what is off limits.

 

I may or may not consider it lying. Its easy for children of that age to lie under pressure. For some it takes strength and maturity to tell the truth and disappoint you. Its not a manipulative thing for every child.

 

However, his bad attitude when confronted with the issue, his unwillingness to put it right...is a bad thing. Most 5s I know are happy to help. Did you loose your temper with him? If you merely expressed disapproval and asked for his help to make it right, then he should probably skip Disney. It's not a one-time thing and he needs to know how serious this is.

 

If this was my family I would evaluate how I handled the news. Was I angry? Did I yell? Did I push him into rebellion instead of leading him into repentance?

 

If I did I would allow him time to calm down and I would sit and explain how the situation made me feel. I would try to give him examples he could understand. Then I would offer him an opportunity to make it right. If he did, I would allow him to come. If he continued to exhibit attitude I would look sad and remind him that we all make lots of mistakes (even Mommy and Daddy) and if we can't make them right it's hard for people to trust us. When people trust us they know they can play with us...that we'll treat them fairly. Then everyone has fun.

 

In my experience 5 year olds are not babies. They do understand fairness. What they lack is a mature understanding of boundaries (this is okay but that isn't) because of their lack of situational experience. They also don't always understand other points of view. To him it might be no big deal, and you being upset doesn't seem fair. Some personalities react to that with anger. What you have to figure out is whether this is a trait in your son---whether he consistently has problems with admitting his own mistakes (and apologizing and making things right) which might mean you need more consistency on this issue or if this is a one-time situation where your emotion affected his response.

 

Clear as mud? ;)

[katilac]

Another consideration: how would this affect the trip for the other child? I know my kids would be so distressed at leaving a sibling behind that they would not enjoy themselves, so for that reason alone I would discipline in a different way.

[shinyhappypeople]

So I DONT have a lot of money..with the help of my grandmother, I was able to get myself and 2 of my boys disneyland season passes. I had been saving money take a trip down there, and had about 150 dollars in my wallet. I just found my wallet in my room on the floor, and 70 dollars was missing, I asked them about it, and finally got out of DS 5 that he took it out, and was put it in his bedroom. (he has done this before, and been explained to that he should not take money out of mommy or daddys wallets)...well, I found the $20 bill, but there is still a fifty missing. The major problem is, He has such a bad attitude about it, I am trying to get him to help me clean up his room, to help find it, and he is giving SUCH attitude for a 5yr old boy...grrrrrrr...

So, I promised DS 10 that we would go, his birthday, great grades and hard work in school.

Is it too bad of a punishment to make DS 5 stay home this time? We will be going again this year. so its not a once in a lifetime thing or anything..but I just feel so guilty leaving him home..:confused:

 

I'd take him, BUT he gets a boring sack lunch from home and no souvenirs. Let him know the reason he's not getting any extras is because took and then LOST $50. You'd saved up that $50 to buy him treats. Be totally calm and matter-of-fact. When he gets mad I'd just shrug and say, "Why are you mad at me? I'm not the one who took the money."

 

:grouphug:

[Satori]

I'm sorry, but staying home from Disneyland for the day is too big a punishment for a disciplinary infraction by a 5-year-old. If he were 10, or even 7, I might feel differently. Five years olds are just getting used to the concept of fantasy vs reality, lying vs telling the truth, etc. They don't have "bad attitudes" (as if they can control them at that age), they have emerging personalities that they are just beginning to learn to understand.

 

Punishment, yes. Make it fit the crime. Put some favorite toy away for a week or something. But this is a teen-sized punishment for a 5-year-old. I remember "stealing" a toy from a store when I was 4. My mother walked me down the street so we could return it. Which is good and correct, I remembered it. But I had no clue what "stealing" was. I thought they toys were just there for the kids! No concept of paying or anything else.

 

I don't think the OP will want the memory of her time at Disneyland WITHOUT her 5-year-old. JMO.

 

:iagree: Poor little guy.

[HS Mom in NC]

If this is a repeat, sorry.

 

I would explain to the 5 year old that there are 2 choices:

 

1) Fix the situation by willingly cleaning his room to find the rest of the money

2) Stay home from Disneyland

 

If he's willing to make it right, it's a good thing for him. If he's not going to, or he's going to have a bad attitude about being given a chance to fix it, I would probably leave him home since you're getting season passes which I assume means there is another Disneyland trip in the future.