fhjmom Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Would you choose not to use a curriculum or book if you disagree with actions of the publisher? Not to reignite the kurfluffle, but we have been using the AIG "God's Design" series for two years. I had planned on finishing the next two sets in the series as well. The series was not written by Ken Ham but is very much YE, which is one reason I chose it. I like the material; I am just uncomfortable with the way Ken Ham handled himself in the whole ordeal, especially since the latest information about AiG backing out of mediation has come to light. Please, I do not want to get into debating the specifics of Ken Ham's actions. The important point here is that he did act in a certain way, he is the "face" of the publishing company, and I do not I do not agree with how he acted in a situation unrelated to the curriculum in question. I am asking if actions by an individual who plays a major role in a publishing company would cause you to not use a book/curriculum published by that company, even if the curriculum itself was a good fit for your family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindyD Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I really don't care. I'm going to use the best option for my family. This has all got blown way out of proportion imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I've struggled with this, too. I'm planning on using their history curriculum, but it's written by Diana Waring. I figure since I'm borrowing it and not buying it, I'm ok. LOL (And, I happen to have the Chemistry/Ecology set for sale, if you want to buy it from me and not AiG directly--Just thought I'd throw that out there ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I bought MFW ECC package and it has a science book of theirs in the package. But I reasoned I was buying it from MFW. (It's the ecosystems) It looks sorta hard for the level its recommended for. A friend used it and hated it. (Way before any of this stuff came up) I would think you could find it used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganClassicalPrep Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I guess it would depend on how MUCH I disagreed with the actions of the publisher. I have (and currently) boycott certain companies because I disagree with statements made in public. Recently a certain company was quoted saying some information I disagreed with greatly. Given the Christian-orientation of the company in mind, I was already aware of their stance, but once it was made public and really put out there, I felt I had to act. I haven't frequented that company since then, and due to my information- neither have a number of other people. But this particular issue (I'm trying very hard to keep this thread sane!! :tongue_smilie:) happens to be one of my hot-button issues. One of those issues that changes how I vote, etc. When it comes to curriculum, I will try to support companies that align with my beliefs, but... if it truly is the BEST for my family, and I can't find anything that compares, AND the issue isn't one of my big ones, I'd probably use it anyway. Could you get it used? That way it wouldn't be supporting the company. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) FWIW- I have never used anything from AIG, but had been looking at some of thier materials for next year back when the whole dust-up started. I wasn't really excited about any of the curricula I was looking at from any company, and the whole Ham thing made decide to remove AIG from the list of prospective providers. As time has gone on I have become increasingly glad with my decision and, unless there was something only AIG was offering that I was completely unable to create on my own, I have zero intention of purchasing from this company. ETA- I would feel this way about any publishing company with which I felt negatively about their practices. Edited May 27, 2011 by BLA5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrogMom5 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It depends on the level of disagreement. I have and do boycott companies whose statements or actions I vehemently disagree with. You do have to balance the educational needs of your dc in the decision too. Can you find something similar? How would you feel if you just bought a used copy? Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I really don't care. I'm going to use the best option for my family. This has all got blown way out of proportion imo. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I wouldn't change for that. I would want the best possible materials, regardless of the source. If they INCLUDED in the materials things that I regarded as harmful, I would think twice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMom2One Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I've wondered about this myself recently as I looked over some science materials as I plan up ahead and had some thoughts that I'll share here since you've brought it up. This whole thing reminds me of discussions my dd and I have had recently as we've been studying church history. The point has been that numerous times over the ages there has been corruption within the church. Even so, the corruption does not negate the true message of the Bible, does it? And it doesn't mean that God's intention for the church has changed. Just because something is done wrongly in the name of Christianity does not mean that it cancels out everything that is right and good. And likewise, isn't it a shame when people reject Christ because of what men have done in His name? In the same way, I believe it's a shame when Christian educational materials are rejected because of the bad behavior of the writer or publisher. The behavior is what was wrong, not the educational materials. If the curriculum speaks the the truth and teaches the message you want to pass on to your dc, I would not reject it because of the sinful mistakes of one man. My hope is that through prayer over time, this man will be able to make things right again, come clean, be forgiven and restored. Blessings, Lucinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kphmschool3 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I think that it is important to remember the we will never agree completely with any one persons many opinions and or actions.... If the curriculum is solid and without fundamental flaws conflicting with your own personal beliefs there is no reason to dismiss it. Who is perfect anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If I disagreed with the publisher, I'd buy it used. However, I have ethical issues with one brand of baby carrier and refuse to even buy/wear it used, because I'd have too many people seeing the logo or asking, "What kind of carrier is that?" "Where did you get that?" to want to promote that company in such a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosy Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It would depend on the situation. Can I find something that would work reasonably well in its place? How much do I disagree with their actions? Can I get the curr. used, so I'm not directly supporting the publisher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yes, if I disagreed with the actions of the publisher, I would boycott their products. I place a high value on the ethics of a company. When an individual represents the figurehead of a company his/her actions matter to me. I have and do toss away a few homeschool catalogs, which I did not request, because of the stance of their leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolamum Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It would depend on exactly what I disagreed with. As in, was the person using the money to support some cause I was TOTALLY against. OR, is it just a difference of opinion and does that opinion come out in the curriculum. If I was happy with the curriculum and I didn't feel using it was going to be against my religious beliefs then I'd keep using it. That said, the only way it could go against my "religious" beliefs would be to mock God and/or his existence. There would be a few other but those would be differences of opinions and chances are I wouldn't be using the curriculum to start with based on all that. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If I disagreed with the publisher, I'd buy it used. However, I have ethical issues with one brand of baby carrier and refuse to even buy/wear it used, because I'd have too many people seeing the logo or asking, "What kind of carrier is that?" "Where did you get that?" to want to promote that company in such a way. I think that's a great solution. I've had to mark a bunch of excellent science material off my list because I don't want to support ID or creationist materials or walk-the-fence programs that simply don't mention evolution like Noeo. Anyhow, that's my quirk. I have bought some materials, like RS4K, used that I never would new and I think that's a good compromise. RS4K eventually got given away though. Nevermind the walk-the-fence thing, I couldn't handle making the little mini-books. :D But yeah, I know that I might be passing up some great curriculum my kids would love but there's a LOT of great stuff out there and I think it's important that I model the importance of principles and not supporting things I disagree with even when it might make things a little harder for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I don't think I've ever encountered the dilemma. When a publisher's actions are that unpalatable, I generally don't like their books, either. Kind-of win-win. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsieFamily Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I don't think I've ever encountered the dilemma. When a publisher's actions are that unpalatable, I generally don't like their books, either. Kind-of win-win. ;) :iagree: But I'm totally lost other than that. What did AiG do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd293 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 The actions of an author would matter more to me than his or her personal values - we all have the right to our own beliefs, but actions are external, they impact on others, and I expect everyone I connect with the act within the same basic parameters of behavior (which ultimately boil down to respect and tolerance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I would probably still use it. :iagree: In theory, I might say I wouldn't use it. In reality, I probably would. But I wouldn't be as quick to check out that particular curriculum, so I might overlook it in favor of something else. And like a PP said, if it were particularly egregious, I likely wouldn't agree with the curriculum in the first place. There are too many variables for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Well, this is one reason I have never used another curriculum, and have now rethought about Apologia, although I have only ever used it once so far. However, ultimately it comes down to what is the best option price wise and educational wise for my kids. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 No, I wouldn't. I'm very troubled by certain character traits in leadership and Mr. Ham exhibited one that's near the top of my list. Now I can't stomach the thought of purchasing anything that supports his company (or makes it look like I support his company, so I wouldn't even buy it used). It's such a personal decision, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I really try to avoid giving my dollars to people whose ideas and actions I find completely wrong or even abhorrent. I've had no trouble finding adequate substitutes, though it does take looking at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It would depend on how serious I found the action, compared to how important I found the material. The given example doesn't apply to me, so I'll make up my own. :) If SWB were to do something that raised my eyebrows, I'd likely continue to use WWE, FLL, and SOTW. If she were to do something that felt like a punch in the gut, I might quit using WWE and FLL, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to bring myself to give up SOTW. If she went completely off her rocker and turned the hs world on its head with Sheen like insanity, there's no way I could continue to support PHP. (And I would be very sad about it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I really don't care. I'm going to use the best option for my family. This has all got blown way out of proportion imo. :iagree: If I didn't want to support the company, I might just buy used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It depends. ;) Depends on how much I disagree with the publisher, and depends on how much I want to use the material. I'm not Christian so there are plenty of times when I have to weigh the pros and cons of certain products in the home school world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If she went completely off her rocker and turned the hs world on its head with Sheen like insanity, there's no way I could continue to support PHP. (And I would be very sad about it.) Sheen like insanity. :smilielol5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yes I would. I bought one book from a particular author/publisher, then found out she spends time trying to get her worldview taught in public schools. I don't believe a view like hers belongs in public schools and will no longer buy her materials. ETA: If I already had the book when I found out, I'd probably go ahead and use it, but just not buy anymore. In my case, we had already finished the book when I found out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It would depend on how serious I found the action, compared to how important I found the material. The given example doesn't apply to me, so I'll make up my own. :) If SWB were to do something that raised my eyebrows, I'd likely continue to use WWE, FLL, and SOTW. If she were to do something that felt like a punch in the gut, I might quit using WWE and FLL, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to bring myself to give up SOTW. If she went completely off her rocker and turned the hs world on its head with Sheen like insanity, there's no way I could continue to support PHP. (And I would be very sad about it.) :lol: I love this example! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 No... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If there were no other alternatives I felt were pretty "equal" -- I'd be hard pressed to ignore it. However, at this point, I have absolutely no qualms not even looking at it. There are enough YE, Christian, science curriculas out there that I could ignore away. I have a more difficult issue trying to sort out the proper Bible curricula that doesn't "mandate" a YE view for creation as the only "Biblical" worldview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I am asking if actions by an individual who plays a major role in a publishing company would cause you to not use a book/curriculum published by that company, even if the curriculum itself was a good fit for your family? It would depend on how the publishing company responded. If they did nothing, then yes, I would stop using the curriculum. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If I already owned the material, I would continue using it. But to allow some of my hard earned dollars to support someone I strongly opposed just would not happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I agree with a lot of posters. If the curriculum works for you and your family, you should keep using it. However, if you don't like what the company or spokesperson does, says or supports...then you must buy it used. As you go on, maybe you will change your mind...in either direction. This has happened to me occasionally. There are certain companies that I liked their products, but didn't like what they were about. I would buy used, as I can't in good conscience funnel $$ their way. On the converse, some products I can buy used and don't. I will buy directly from the author/publisher to show that I do support them. FWIW, I live near the creation museum, and have always wanted to go, just to see how that sort of thinking works....as I don't get it. However, I can't bring myself to give any $$ to KM. It is expensive, but if he offered a free day to skeptics...I would go in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 You know, this line of thinking is being put forward by some against using SOTW even as a resource in a larger curriculum. That ought to give us pause about this tack. It certainly gives ME pause about this tack. SOTW is the most engaging world history series for younger kids that I know of, and it is easy to use with a YE Creationist mindset. I know this, because I have one. A strong one. Nothing inconsistent between that and SOTW, for sure. So, I have a bias against that kind of 'stand'. I think that people should use the materials that are best for their children, objectively based on the content of those specific materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMomof4 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yes, if I disagreed with the actions of the publisher, I would boycott their products. I place a high value on the ethics of a company. When an individual represents the figurehead of a company his/her actions matter to me. I have and do toss away a few homeschool catalogs, which I did not request, because of the stance of their leadership. :iagree:There are so many choices out there, I would not support someone who's actions were so out of line with what they are supposed to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It depends on how strongly I feel about the issue. "I" would not support AIG. I am having further reservations about Apologia, but at this time I am sticking with it. Part of the reason I can stick with Apologia right now is because I emailed the author and publisher asking them to please remain neutral in the Kerfuffle. I watched them very closely. Now, my local homeschool conf. has a kids track that is hosted by people from AIG, my kids will not be attending. I agree...if you really like the materials and they work for your famliy, buy used. Also, sometimes these situation launch us into finding even better options ;). Take care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) I am asking if actions by an individual who plays a major role in a publishing company would cause you to not use a book/curriculum published by that company, even if the curriculum itself was a good fit for your family?No. I would still use the curriculum. I only read the OP. I am answering the question based on this one sentence, trying to ignore who the publisher is for this purpose. This answer is probably not a popular position. I know it isn't among my friends. The ethics of companies never affect my purchases of any other product. It is just too stressful to research those things. Edited May 27, 2011 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 You know, this line of thinking is being put forward by some against using SOTW even as a resource in a larger curriculum. That ought to give us pause about this tack. It certainly gives ME pause about this tack. SOTW is the most engaging world history series for younger kids that I know of, and it is easy to use with a YE Creationist mindset. I know this, because I have one. A strong one. Nothing inconsistent between that and SOTW, for sure. So, I have a bias against that kind of 'stand'. I think that people should use the materials that are best for their children, objectively based on the content of those specific materials. I'm sorry but I just have to ask; what specific objections are people raising to SWB and/or her company? I am :confused:, and trying not to be :001_huh:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I'm sorry but I just have to ask; what specific objections are people raising to SWB and/or her company? I am :confused:, and trying not to be :001_huh:. Kerfluffle oriented spinoff stuff. Classical ed supposedly inconsistent with Christianity and Reformation. (Uh, have they ever READ Luther? Or Erasmus? Or even Paul?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Okay. Wouldn't those be the same folks that were all upset about the treatment of Biblical figures in SOTW1? IMHO people of that opinion are not going to support using PHP materials even without the Kerfluffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I think that people should use the materials that are best for their children, objectively based on the content of those specific materials. :iagree: I really don't care. I'm going to use the best option for my family. This has all got blown way out of proportion imo. :iagree: See? I should have read the responses. Using the smiley was so much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 IF I felt strongly enough to question the publisher/manufacturer I'd probably not use the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Okay. Wouldn't those be the same folks that were all upset about the treatment of Biblical figures in SOTW1? IMHO people of that opinion are not going to support using PHP materials even without the Kerfluffle. NM. Edited May 27, 2011 by Carol in Cal. View is so disagreeable that I don't want to give it airtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yes. This is why we don't use CLE. Actually, my son is the one who made this decision - the reading program offended him so much that he didn't want to use their materials for anything else. He's 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yes. This is why we don't use CLE. Actually, my son is the one who made this decision - the reading program offended him so much that he didn't want to use their materials for anything else. He's 9. I think that is different because the curricula was the offense, not a comment or action by someone in the publishing company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacus2 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It would depend on how strongly I felt about the issue. I absolutely refuse to look at or consider BJU materials because of their behavior towards my grandparents years ago. If I already owned materials when something new was brought to my attention, I would likely continue to use what I had, but not purchase future materials from that company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If you already own the materials I would use them. I wouldn't purchase more depending on your level of disagreement. Just trying to stay neutral here and not start blathering my opinion all over another thread about this issue :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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