Deciding to require DS to respond "yes ma'am/sir"

[yucabird]

To me, hearing my girls call me "Mama" or "Mommy" is too precious to be substituted with "ma'am". To my ears it sounds very cold and I don't think I've ever used it except with with strangers or in joking.

 

Oh, goodness, my girls call me Mommy; they just answer questions by saying, "Yes, ma'am", etc.

 

For example, they'd ask, "Mommy, can you read me a story?" NOT "Ma'am can you read me a story?" The latter would be COLD, COLD, COLD. I don't know anyone who would require their child to refer to them just as Ma'am.

[In2why]

I find it very odd that someone wanting to be called by the name they prefer is unacceptable. To me that means you are making someone else's name choice all about YOU and what YOU want even though it's THEIR name and therefore THEIR choice. Honestly, why should YOU get to decide what someone else is called?

 

Tara

 

 

Because I am the parent, and it is my kid.

 

I get to decide that my child isn't allowed to call an adult by their first name. If you didn't want to be called Ms. Tara, then you would be called Ms. Liberator.

[ByGrace3]

The cultural differences are great on this issue. I was raised in the Northeast, where responding "what" or "yeah" was seen as completely appropriate and not disrespectful in the least. We moved to the South when I was eleven, and I attended a school where ma'am and sir were expected by most, and at the very least a "yes" and not "what" or "yeah". I also attended college in the deep South and it was certainly used (while not demanded) by most. My profs used it with the students and in turn and by example, the students returned this "respect". I adapted. While in the North and with norther friends, such speech was not necessary, however, I will admit habit set in quickly for me with sir/ma'am. Most of my friends now either go by Mr. or Mrs. last name/ first name. We introduce all by such, if they were to ask to be called something else, I suppose I would allow it since it was requested and we would respect that person by honoring that request. However, if it were me, I would allow a child to call me by the title chosen by the parent in respect of them and how they are choosing to raise their children. Super close friends hold the title of aunt/uncle. This helps us balance the formality of Ms/Mrs./Mr.

My kids say ma'am and sir. In fact, when we call them the answer is "yes ma'am/yes sir I am coming" I actually didn't teach that, never required the second part, but my sister does of her kids and mine just picked up on it :tongue_smilie:

While my kids say ma'am and sir, it is certainly not overdone/driven into the ground around here. We tend to go with the no Yeah, no What, yes and no always come WITH something, yes mommy, yes daddy, no thank you, yes please. My objective is respectful and polite children. What is polite and respectful where I live may not be where you live, but I would hope we would all have grace with children not from around here :tongue_smilie:

Around here to reinforce polite behavior, we say "try again please" I say it a lot with littles, but they get the point. We also model the behavior. They will respect you in the manner or lack thereof that you respect them. . .

[kchara]

Because I am the parent, and it is my kid.

 

I get to decide that my child isn't allowed to call an adult by their first name. If you didn't want to be called Ms. Tara, then you would be called Ms. Liberator.

 

:iagree: How is it not equally rude to insist that a child call you something that obviously seems inappropriate to that family? It is completely inappropriate for *my* children to call an adult anything other than sir/ma'am, Mr. Miss, or Ms. Lastname. If they are very friendly, and I mean VERY friendly, then it might be Mr., Miss, or Ms. Firstname. But I think it's completely rude and out of line for someone outside of our family to insist on removing a standard we have set for our kids.

 

The only exception we have to that rule is when we're around enlisted military members. In that case, they call the adult by their rank. For example, when DH was active duty, they called his good friend who was around a lot Sergeant C_____, not "sir," for the reasons already given. (Sir is reserved for officers, and enlisted as a general rule don't appreciate being called sir or ma'am. Since DH and I were both enlisted, we understood and respected this unspoken rule.) Now that both he and DH are no longer active duty, he's Mr. C_____. If/when they meet people in DH's National Guard unit, they would address them by their rank.

[RoundAbout]

:iagree:

And isn't the POINT of manners to be courteous to your interlocutor? If you call that person something which they perceive as disrespectful, how can that BE proper manners?

 

 

 

Exactly. The point of manners is to not cause offense in uncertain circumstances. If someone is actually telling you exactly what they prefer to be called then that should take precedent over the generic protocol. I understand the point of training children but part of that training should include the fact that people have different preferences.

 

There is definite cultural bias here - sir/ma'am is not universally polite. As I mentioned, in Hawaii its normal for children to refer to an adult woman as "auntie'" even if they just met and insisting on "ma'am" would probably come across as extremely unfriendly.

[arghmatey]

The polite thing to tell a child would be, "Oh, you are so polite to call me ma'am! You may call me Jessica / Miss Jessica / Mrs. Blahblah if that's okay with your mother."

 

The ever so gracious mother would reply, "Yes, of course."

[RoundAbout]

:iagree: How is it not equally rude to insist that a child call you something that obviously seems inappropriate to that family?

 

Because the whole point good manners are about maximizing the comfort of others over oneself. We rely on the protocol of etiquette when we don't know what to do, so as to not cause offense, but if someone is telling us what they prefer - especially something so intrinsic to oneself as a name - it should be respected.

 

 

Using a relevant example from our own lives: my husband is a military officer and his subordinates must call him 'sir.' Sometimes in social situations their spouses also call him 'sir'. He finds this inappropriate so corrects them "My name is FirstName." If they continue to call him 'sir' it makes him uncomfortable, which is exactly what good manners is supposed to prevent. Even if meant respectfully, continuing to use 'sir' in this context ends up being quite rude because you're making someone else uncomfortable in order to spare yourself discomfort (assuming the spouse is uncomfortable with using the first name). I think the root of the misunderstanding is that people who insist on sir/ma'am really don't understand how uncomfortable it can be for some people.

[Tap]

I learned 'yes/no sir' from living in the south as well as calling someone by Mr. Lastname. I moved to the PNW in my teens. I can not tell you how many times, I was scolded, quite harshly scolded, for calling someone Sir, Mr./Mrs. Lastname, and the most offensive was Ma'am.

 

I still do it on occasion, but only to someone significantly older than I am, who understands the respect behind it.

 

There are different offenses taken by people for different things:

 

IN our area: Saying 'yes, ma'am', is a way to pretend you are being professional, but in a very obvious, snide way. It is like you are making a point to be rude by adding the word ma'am. It is not seen as endearing, thoughtful, considerate, or professional. It is seen as absolutely, bold faced, purposefully rude.

 

Mrs. Last name is often met with a response of "I'm not Mrs Smith, that is my mother-in-law". By using Mrs. Lastname, it is like you are aging the person one generation or more. It is like you just aged them 15 years. Not everyone is this way, but I have heard it soooo many times, I no longer call people that out side of a professional setting and Never taught my kids that. I figure if an adult wants to be called that, they will tell the child "call me Mrs Smith, not Nancy please".

 

Miss Firstname, is okay but usually only for very young children. It is heard in other circles, but predominately in the very young. If an adult uses "Miss Suzie" to address another adult, it is usually in a mocking way. Even a teen saying it, is often snarky.

 

In our area, calling someone by their first name is polite. Mr/Mrs is reserved for being professional only. Sir and Ma'am...downright rude.

 

Saying Yep and Nope, is fine in general. It is about the tone....not the words used.

 

 

 

It doesn't bother me as long as someone is being respectful in tone. I tell kids "you can call me Tap, if it is okay with your mom". I don't care what someone calls me as long as it isn't rude.

[jewellsmommy]

Well in the south, I seem to be an anomaly :D. I detested being made to say yes ma'am to my mother. I could say it to strangers or other adults that I knew. But, with my mom it was just a power card she pulled occasionally. We have a great relationship, it's just hard to explain.

 

As a parent, we have taught yes, thank you or yes, mommy or yes, grammy etc. For people we know, it's Miss First Name or Mr. First Name. If they don't know the name, obviously sir or ma'am is fine. If a child says yes ma'am to me that's fine. I am not picky about that.

 

The 'yes, mommy' drives my mother nuts! :D She thinks that it is too "mommy dearest" in her words. :001_huh:

 

Perspective is such a funny thing. :lol:

 

ETA: My irl friend has given me cr*p for teaching my children this. She does not get my aversion to yes, ma'am. Oh well. I have found that adults are often far more rude than children.

Edited April 16, 2011 by jewellsmommy

[lula]

My kids don't say ma'am or sir but they are polite for our social norms. I have a friend from the South and her kids call me Miss Lula which drives me absolutely bonkers, seriously grating. I don't correct them because that is the norm for their family however I don't like it when she tries to get my kids to use the ma'am and sir just to get a drink. (especially since we were both raised in the same area and she knows the norms of where I am from) I have instructed them to call her "Miss Stacy" since that is what she prefers and my kids have learned that as her name. At my house in general a polite tone and facial expression are the requirements not the exact language.

[Tranquility7]

Anyway, the OP wanted to know "how" to teach ma'am and "sir" not whether teaching them was a good idea or not.

 

LOL yes, that is what I asked! In fact, I deliberately did NOT explain *why* we decided to teach it to DS, precisely because I didn’t want to get into a debate about it. :lol: That said, as the OP, I do appreciate all the insight everyone has contributed to this thread. I’m just not going to enter the fray myself.

 

 

I'm curious, OP: why do you want your child to speak to you this way? What does it represent for you? What would it mean to you if he used this form of address? Why is it important? As a northerner, I'm interested in the cultural significance of this sort of thing.

 

Great questions :D And while I am *very* tempted to answer them, as I said above, I just can’t enter this debate. I really am just seeking some practical insight from those who do teach this.

 

 

Either way, I would feel pretty sorry for that kid.

 

Oh believe me, if you saw our family, you would definitely *not* feel sorry for our kiddos!! :D We have too much joy and laughter and fun in our family for anyone to feel sorry for any of us (especially our littles).

[Rosie_0801]

These threads make me laugh. I cannot feel there is an inherent respectfulness to the word "Sir" after hearing "Sir! You're an idiot!" yelled across the classroom when I was at school. (And yes, he really, really was an idiot!)

 

I was brought up to call adults Mr or Mrs Lastname unless they told me to do differently. It seems a good compromise to me. I remember my friend laughing at me once, in the back seat of her mum's car (thanks so much, how humiliating!) for calling her mum Mrs Lastname. I said "Well she has never told me to call her anything else!" So when I went over to her place, I very nicely said "Hello Mrs Lastname, hello Phil." :lol: It felt totally weird to call an adult "Phil" especially when I called his wife Mrs, but everyone else was content. But then I'm a person who has been greeted by small girls screaming "HI PLATYPUS!" across markets and cinema foyers when I was out with friends. I suppose that taught me to be flexible regarding names. :lol:

 

My kids will call adults by their first name because it's been years since I've heard anyone introduce themselves using anything but their first name. I don't particularly like calling senior citizens by their first name, but obviously that's what they want to be called or they would have provided their surname. I will teach my kids to notice if an adult lets them know what their surname is, and to use it until directed otherwise.

 

Rosie

[unsinkable]

I would not like to be called Ma'am either, but would not correct someone's child (especially a little kid) for doing what the parent expected of them. My discomfort with it is my problem.

 

I never said I would correct a child (or little kid) for doing what the parent expected of him. :confused:

 

ETA: I actually don't care what people/kids call me. I dislike my first name (it's a popular dog's name) and when you put Miss in front of it, I think it sounds ridiculous. So whatever. Just don't call me late for dinner.

Edited April 16, 2011 by unsinkable

[NanceXToo]

I want to be called Tara because that is my name and that is how I think of myself. It has nothing to do with any presumed relationship with your family. In my case you would be interpreting incorrectly if you assumed there was anything more to it than that.

 

Tara

 

This is how I see it, too. If someone wanted to be called by their first name, it's just because, well, that's their name and what they prefer to go by. Not because there's some sort of implied closeness with a family or child.

 

Around here, when I hear "ma'am", it's usually in a customer service context.

 

Me, too. And it always makes me feel somewhat... old. LOL.

 

I was raised in the south AND in the military, and we were always taught to say sir/ma'am to ANY adult. The first time I ever heard a negative response to it was from an army sargent who quite hostilely said, "Don't call me 'sir', I work for a living." I was baffled at this statement (and still am).

 

I would interpret that to mean that he sees rich lordly type men who don't ever have to bust their butts being called "sir" and that's not him.

 

I find it very odd that someone wanting to be called by the name they prefer is unacceptable.

 

It's respectful of the child to call the adult what the adult wants to be called.

 

You're begging the question. What constitutes "proper" manners differs according to culture and context. If I can presume to speak from Tara's perspective: to her, calling her by a name she dislikes is the opposite of "proper manners" - it's rude. To you, deviating from your chosen set of titles is rude.

 

It's fine for you to have your own expectations for your family, and if you only interact within a culture that shares those expectations, you'll be fine. But around here, where cultures and standards differ, you'll go further if you concede that you are talking about your own preferences, not some objective standard of "proper manners."

 

:iagree::iagree: and :iagree:

 

I was brought up to call adults Mr or Mrs Lastname unless they told me to do differently. It seems a good compromise to me.

 

This is how I was brought up, too. That you call them Mr./Mrs. Lastname, but if they ask you to call them by their first name instead, you do, and if you got to know them better but weren't asked to call them by their first name, they might become Mr./Mrs. Last Initial.

 

I let my kid's friends and the children of people in my homeschool group call me by my first name. It's my name. It's what I go by. It's not (to me) rude or disrespectful or implying any sort of intimacy- it's just my name. Some of the parents direct the kids to call other moms Miss Firstname and that doesn't really bother me (although it does sound a little preschool teacherish lol). If any of them did call me "ma'am" and I only saw them now and then, I wouldn't correct it, although it would feel a little awkward to me. If I spent frequent time with them, I wouldn't want to be called that all the time and would tell them they could call me by my first name.

 

If their mother insisted "Oh, no, they're not allowed to call you by your first name, they have to call you ma'am"... well, that would feel odd and uncomfortable to me rather than "polite."

[creekland]

Wow - reminiscing one of our first parenting problems as I was raised in the north where using ma'am/sir outside the military or service industry was absolutely awful. Hubby was raised in the south where it was 100% expected.

 

We ended up teaching our kids that "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" to be polite locally. They have no problem at all with this and adjust EXTREMELY easily to their local when we travel.

 

And, fortunately, we live in the north. ;)

 

I would have a tough time getting over the [personally perceived] rudeness otherwise. I'm pretty sure hubby has adapted as he no longer uses ma'am or sir around here either, but we all do when we visit his parents (myself too).

[susankenny]

Well, my kids say it. Not all of the time - but they say it. I say it all of the time too - even at the grocery store to the person checking me out. I also say it to my children... telling them "no sir" or "yes ma'am". I also call my daughter and other children, Miss "First Name"...and not because she's in trouble, or I'm upset...it's just matter of fact, "Come on Miss Lucy, it's tome to get going".

 

When we lived out west everyone called the adults Mr. & Mrs. Last name. I found that uncomfortable. I am Miss Susan. Not Mrs. Kenny. I had to re-teach my kids that etiquette when we were there, as they weren't used to addressing adults that way. I think it's all relative to the part of the world you live, and I'm in a small town in the deep south.

 

 

Susan

[5knights3maidens]

Not for me. I'm mom, momma, or mommy. If someone elses child wants to say that to me that's fine.

[happyhomemaker25]

I find it very odd that someone wanting to be called by the name they prefer is unacceptable. To me that means you are making someone else's name choice all about YOU and what YOU want even though it's THEIR name and therefore THEIR choice. Honestly, why should YOU get to decide what someone else is called?

 

Tara

 

 

Mainly because my kids would be uncomfortable and confused at addressing an adult by their first name alone. They have never done this.

It would really throw them off. Around here (in my area) you don't refer to adults by their first names.

Everyone would think YOU were strange and probably because they would be afraid of slipping up and calling you by a name you don't like or having their kids be uncomfortable addressing you by your first name they'd just choose not to have a relationship with you.

I'm reading this and it seems snarky, but I'm not trying to be. I'm just addressing what your asking. I've typed it three times.

[susankenny]

Not for me. I'm mom, momma, or mommy. If someone elses child wants to say that to me that's fine.

 

LOL. We are all still mom, momma, and mommy.

 

 

Susan

[Melinda in VT]

When we lived out west everyone called the adults Mr. & Mrs. Last name. I found that uncomfortable. I am Miss Susan. Not Mrs. Kenny. I had to re-teach my kids that etiquette when we were there, as they weren't used to addressing adults that way. I think it's all relative to the part of the world you live, and I'm in a small town in the deep south.

 

I've never lived in the south, and I've never understood why grown women want to be called Miss.

 

I agree, it's all relative. I think it's best just to assume the best of intentions all around.

[lionfamily1999]

OP, we start around four. Luke still says, "Yes, man" regardless of sex, but the effort's there :D

 

It starts with leading (Yes what? Yes ma'am/man/sir). Eventually they get used to it and just do it. It's the same with Ms/Miss/Mrs/Mr, we introduce our children using that for the adult and then when speaking to the children we reinforce it (Did you hear what Miss ______ said?).

[susankenny]

I've never lived in the south, and I've never understood why grown women want to be called Miss.

 

I agree, it's all relative. I think it's best just to assume the best of intentions all around.

 

Well, I agree. If you've never lived where it's the norm, how could you understand?

 

Susan

[Melinda in VT]

This is how I see it, too. If someone wanted to be called by their first name, it's just because, well, that's their name and what they prefer to go by. Not because there's some sort of implied closeness with a family or child.

 

Around here, everyone goes by their first name, except the middle school and high school teachers.

 

When everyone calls you by your first name, there is no implied intimacy in the usage. I prefer to be called my name because it's my name and it is how I think of myself. My kids' friends aren't chummy with me because they call me Melinda.

[Haiku]

It is about teaching my child proper manners.

 

Which is making it about what you want.

 

When did it become mannerly to call someone something they don't care to be called?

 

Tara

[leeannpal]

I am from the deep South (Alabama), and my husband is from New York. We are not requiring our daughter to say yes sir/ma'am. We now live in a small town in Georgia, and I have noticed that the practice seems to be dying off. I rarely hear it anymore except in a customer service capacity.

 

I, personally, do not see the use of sir/ma'am to be inherently polite or impolite.

[Haiku]

Mainly because my kids would be uncomfortable and confused at addressing an adult by their first name alone. They have never done this.

 

 

My kids have lots of adults in their lives, and these adults go by many different names/titles. My kids have no problem remembering what to call them.

 

Tara

[Kimber]

I'd start with a conversation about why it's important, and then tell him that this is what we're going to expect from now on. When he forgets, as all kids do, I'd gently remind him.

 

Our kids were little and so we didn't have the conversation, but we still have gentle reminders.

 

I am from the South and when I was little it was the cultural norm. It's a dying tradition, but we still see the value of it.

 

I've read the criticisms of some of the posts about the use of sir and ma'am, and those that criticize it miss the nuances that go along with the words. They're just words, like any other.

 

I can say "yes ma'am" and put some one in their place at the same time. I can say the same two words and imply undying gratitude at the same time. I can say the same two words and say I love you with all my heart (to my mother, of course) at the same time. They're just words, but there is a lot of tradition and culture wrapped up in those words.

[kchara]

Because the whole point good manners are about maximizing the comfort of others over oneself. We rely on the protocol of etiquette when we don't know what to do, so as to not cause offense, but if someone is telling us what they prefer - especially something so intrinsic to oneself as a name - it should be respected.

 

So, as an adult, it's OK to get offended because a child is being taught what is considered in that family to be respectful to adults, but it's OK to offend the child's parents by overstepping bounds and telling the child *not* to call said adult by the title the parents have put forth? :confused: Sorry, in this situation, it seems the adult is being the rude one. The child is learning manners and protocol, the adult should know and acknowledge the attempt at manners, rather than make the parent's job more difficult by adding another name into the mix, when the parent has clearly laid out the standard for that family.

[Ester Maria]

I taught my children to address adults as Miss/Mrs/Mr (and in some instances, Dr./Prof.) Lastname, unless instructed differently - but not to "add" little pieces of sir or ma'am whenever they respond to something, because it seems somewhat "forced" to me.

 

With regard to Italy, pretty much the same: Sig./na/ra or Prof./ssa, Dott./ssa Lastname + being with them on Lei or even Voi in some places (but definitely not on tu), unless instructed differently. Also without "forcing" the title all the time - they pretty much know the balance to insert it occasionally, but without sissignoring all the time.

 

When it comes to ME, I DETEST when other people's children (and, I hate to say it, much more Americans than Europeans) take upon themselves the freedom of calling me my first name or, in languages such as Italian and French which differentiate formal from informal forms, take the freedom to be on tu with me instead of on Lei / Vous. I find it rude, poor mannered and crossing certain limits with me.

 

Same for adults, actually. I do not want to be called a bunch of -issima first + all my titles after that, but taking the freedom to call me my first name if we are not informal one with another is just bad manners in my book.

 

Regarding children, children are by definition from the informal context. Mamma is fine, and it is nice when it is added now and then, but not in every sentence, please. Whenever I hear yes, ma'am or something like signora madre :lol:, I sense something defiant and slightly ironic about it - just like when I get a Lei from my children. But those are my children, not other people's children, with whom I am not informal and some boundaries have to be there.

 

Italian is a LOT more formal language than English, particularly regarding correspondence, it is a fine line how to remain respectful, but without going overboard; I taught my children all those tricks so they tend to be more polite in English too, but some things like constant yes, sir/ma'am sound almost like a caricature to me and I do not like them. To each her own though.

[amydavis]

I'm one of the parents that requires a ma'am or sir, and I wanted to clarify something. I noticed more than one person say how sad/bad it seemed, because they can't imagine not being called mom/mommy. Well, my children most certainly call me mom/mommy. My youngest still says mommy, and the older ones have crossed over more to the mom realm.

 

Families that require ma'am/sir are requiring that the children answer questions with yes/no ma'am/sir. That isn't what the children address us by - two different things. Also, my children don't call other adults ma'am/sir, they call them Ms. Susie or Mr. Joe, etc.

 

In my opinion, calling someone simply by their first name implies that the two parties are equal. And, in my opinion, children are not equal to adults. That may very well be a regional thing. It's not saying that children have no value (in fact, their value is immeasurable) but it is being aware that respect is due to your elders. And, you don't have to be elderly to be an elder. So, they would call other adults by their name, but with a Ms. or Mr. attached. They would answer any questions from these adults with a yes/no ma'am/sir. Once again, that shows respect by clarifying that you are addressing someone that you should show respect.

 

My main point in this is...obviously our children still call us mommy! And the ma'am/sir replies are not the same as customer service. You cannot compare the two, because their usage is so different. If an agent is annoyed by you, then sure, their use of ma'am/sir is going to be dripping with sarcasm/anger....along with every other word they utter. The problem isn't the ma'am or sir (which are simply being used to avoid having to scroll back through the info and find your name), but their attitude. The same with any kid, whether being required to say yes ma'am or yes mommy or yes. If they are aggravated, their tone may show disrespect. That is the tone...not the words. Which, we don't tolerate disrespectful tone, either...but that is another thread. So, I'm just saying, not an accurate comparison, to pit a child acknowledging something to his parent and a customer service rep who doesn't know you at all.

 

ETA: The OP simply wanted to know how to go about instilling this habit in her child. How that turned into a couple of people proclaiming that they feel sorry for children being raised in families with this set of values is beyond me. Stereotype, much? So, since I set certain standards in my home, that differ from yours, suddenly I'm some iron-fisted ruler, and my poor children should be pitied? For lack of a better word....gross.

Edited April 16, 2011 by amydavis
Fixed the spacing.

[pfamilygal]

Another Southerner here. We just model it for our children. If they forget, I simply say, "I need to hear a 'yes, ma'am.'" When they were very little we started with "Yes, Mom," and "Yes, Dad."

[simka2]

I hesitated to even respond on this thread, but I will give my 2 cents. Many years ago I watched a young minister move with his family from the south to the midwest. He INSISTED that his kids address people as Ma'am and Sir. Many of the parishioners were very uncomfortable with this. They would gently try to tell the kids, "Sweetie, Mrs. so in so, is perfectly fine." Eventually, the minister became so angry that his parishioners were going against his parental guidlines that he rebuked them from the pulpit. He told them he was going to raise his kids with the manners he saw fit and they needed to stop contadicting him.

 

He made it a hill to die on. :glare: He did not last long. It was very sad for me to watch, as these were some of the most loving and generous people I knew. Manners and respect go both ways. It is not respectful to insist that people take on a title they do not wish to assume. (not that the OP is going to do this)

 

In our family we have decided to work towards respect and general manners. Respect for themselves, their family, their community, and their world. We prefer they use Mr and Ms, or Coach _____. I'm trying to give them the best middle ground I can with a heart of respect, so they can to adapt to whatever culture they are placed.

[RoundAbout]

So, as an adult, it's OK to get offended because a child is being taught what is considered in that family to be respectful to adults, but it's OK to offend the child's parents by overstepping bounds and telling the child *not* to call said adult by the title the parents have put forth? :confused: Sorry, in this situation, it seems the adult is being the rude one. The child is learning manners and protocol, the adult should know and acknowledge the attempt at manners, rather than make the parent's job more difficult by adding another name into the mix, when the parent has clearly laid out the standard for that family.

 

I think for most of us on this side its our natural habit to say "Please call me FirstName" not some attempt to deliberately undermine the training of another family. However, to be truly proper, such training should require that you call people what they ask to be called. That's what good manners is about, the protocol is important, but its for when you don't know someone's preferred title.

 

Our children's librarian introduced herself as Miss Firstname even though she's elderly and married. So that's what we call her. My best friend introduces herself to my child as Firstname, so we use that. My child's Hawaii music teacher called herself 'Auntie Firstname', and his ski instructor is 'Coach Lastname.' My child has no problem keeping this straight.

Edited April 16, 2011 by RoundAbout

[Murphy101]

Umm... sorry, but no. That is just a big NO in my bluntly honest opinion. I haven't read any of the other posts, and I'm not about to argue this, but that's just wrong as far as I'm concerned.

 

In my culture (and I am from the South), saying "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" was reserved for adults in authority positions outside the family. While they are words of respect, they are also words that indicate a distance in relationship.

 

If I heard a child saying "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" to his parents, I would think that child were either a) in biiiiiiiggggg trouble with said parents, or b) said parents were iron-fisted authoritarians.

 

Either way, I would feel pretty sorry for that kid.

It's not like that in my house. My children still call us mommy and daddy. Whether they say "yes mommy/daddy" or "yes ma'am/sir" usually has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Both are habits we have instilled since babyhood. They older they get, the more they use mom/dad. My 2 year old says "yes ma'am" to everyone. It's the cutest thing ever to hear and it is very obvious to anyone she is not an oppressed kid.;)

 

I agree though that not using first names for people outside the family does indicate distance in the relationship. For example, the cashier at the grocery store is NOT my friend. I find it inappropriate for them to call me by my first name. To ME, first names imply some sort of closer relationship than professional or acquaintanceship.

 

To ME, someone getting offended by my kid saying ma'am/sir is on par with getting offended over my insisting they say please, thank you, or excuse me. It just doesn't make sense to me. Sure my kids don't HAVE to say it and you might not care if they say it, but it is still a very good habit for any person to develop, IMO. Heaven knows we don't have to worry about people these days being too courteous.:001_huh:

Edited April 16, 2011 by Martha

[I.Dup.]

We do and I wouldn't have it any other way (and I'm a CA girl! ;) ) but my husband is from the south and this does seem to be a cultural thing. We live in the Pac. NW now and people are always VERY impressed and delighted when our children call everyone "ma'am" and "sir"...it's kindof funny how tickled they get (and I can tell they like it, they are always very complementary on how polite our children are).

 

I played the "yes ma'am" game with them at first, just to get them used to it. I'd tell them to do random things and require them to say "yes ma'am!" and then I'd give them a skittle or something each time. Now if they forget I just say "excuse me?" like another poster suggested. Usually it's my oldest who forgets and it's because she's in the type of mood to not want to do anything respectful to anyone :thumbdown: so this has been a really good thing for us! It actually started because my dd (who has always had a hard head) refused to answer me "yes mommy" when I told her to do something. I'd say "say yes mommy" and she would say "yes mama" or "yes mom" or "yes mammy" or anything OTHER than "yes mommy" and it was because she was in a rebellious kind of mood. But there's not much altering "yes ma'am" :lol:

[I.Dup.]

Umm... sorry, but no. That is just a big NO in my bluntly honest opinion. I haven't read any of the other posts, and I'm not about to argue this, but that's just wrong as far as I'm concerned.

 

In my culture (and I am from the South), saying "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" was reserved for adults in authority positions outside the family. While they are words of respect, they are also words that indicate a distance in relationship.

 

If I heard a child saying "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" to his parents, I would think that child were either a) in biiiiiiiggggg trouble with said parents, or b) said parents were iron-fisted authoritarians.

 

Either way, I would feel pretty sorry for that kid.

 

Wow.

[I.Dup.]

I'd also agree with all the other posters who said our children still (of course) call us "mommy" and "daddy" or "mama" or whatever they want, but when we are addressing them or asking them to do something, we see it as the polite thing for them to answer us in a polite way. They also never get confused about anyone's real name, lol.

[annandatje]

We have decided DS (5) needs to start answering us with "yes ma'am" and "yes sir". Anyone else teach their kids to respond to them this way? I don't mean just to a random stranger, but actually to you and dh? How do you teach it? Just by prompting? We know *no one* who teaches their kids this (even though we live in the South!) but we think it will be a good change.

 

Any thoughts or insights on how to make this change happen would be much appreciated...

 

What made you decide that your children should address you as "ma'am" or "sir?" Were they exhibiting a pattern of disrespectful behavior that you believe use of titles will resolve or lessen? My guess would be that modeling the behavior would be sufficient. However, personally I would consider it a complement to a strong foundation in etiquette, not an essential core element.

 

For what it is worth: our firm has to "unteach" young adult (usually Southern) employees who consistently address clients and partners with "ma'am" or "sir" because it is viewed as subservient and unprofessional.

[Mrs Mungo]

We are military, so most of the kids we know speak to adults this way. My own kids only answer me with "yes, ma'am" when I have directed them to do something. "So-and-so, please take out the garbage," gets a "yes, ma'am." BUT, I also say yes, ma'am/sir to my kids all the time. If they ask if they can have a cookie or ask to play outside, I often answer with a "yes, ma'am." Or if they bring me something I might say "thank you, sir!" It's definitely not an iron-fist thing in our family.

 

That said, I agree that you generally train the kids to call adults what the adults want to be called. My sisters and aunts are called "Firstname," that's what my family does. My MIL's sister is addressed as "Aunt Firstname," never just "Firstname." Most members of our Army family are called "Miss/Mister Firstname." A few prefer to be just "Firstname," and a few prefer "Miss/Mister Lastname." We had tons of people in Hawaii who preferred "Auntie/Uncle Firstname." Their tennis coach asks to be called "coach." We honor those preferences.

[Cricket]

I think it is sad that so many people feel that "ma'am" and "sir" is bad. I'm not saying you can't feel that way, but I'm still sad about it. I love when I'm called "ma'am." I find it sweet and respectful. It is not offensive to me at all. My family came from the deep south though. We said "yes, ma'am" and "yes, sir" to my parents. Like others have said, I wouldn't make it a big deal with your dc, especially if it is a foreign thing right now. Make it a game like a pp said.

[cin]

i haven't read all the responses, but when I read the title of the thread, I chuckled to myself and thought....

 

I just wish I could get my kids to ANSWER me. At this point, I'd almost take yo mama!

[susankenny]

I hesitated to even respond on this thread, but I will give my 2 cents. Many years ago I watched a young minister move with his family from the south to the midwest. He INSISTED that his kids address people as Ma'am and Sir. Many of the parishioners were very uncomfortable with this. They would gently try to tell the kids, "Sweetie, Mrs. so in so, is perfectly fine." Eventually, the minister became so angry that his parishioners were going against his parental guidlines that he rebuked them from the pulpit. He told them he was going to raise his kids with the manners he saw fit and they needed to stop contadicting him.

 

He made it a hill to die on. :glare: He did not last long. It was very sad for me to watch, as these were some of the most loving and generous people I knew. Manners and respect go both ways. It is not respectful to insist that people take on a title they do not wish to assume. (not that the OP is going to do this)

 

I completely agree that a family moving should adapt to the social norm with this type of thing. But that works both ways. I think one should also not move to the south & make it a "hill to die on" when a child addresses them as ma'am or sir. It works both ways. Ykwim?

 

Susan

[simka2]

I completely agree that a family moving should adapt to the social norm with this type of thing. But that works both ways. I think one should also not move to the south & make it a "hill to die on" when a child addresses them as ma'am or sir. It works both ways. Ykwim?

 

Susan

I don't know that I agree "completely" with the above. I think respect is being paid to the person who is being addressed or responded to. If that person, regardless of location, finds "Ma'am" or "Sir" untenable, that is their choice. That I believe goes "both ways." So, if I am in the South and the prevading culture is one of Sir's and Ma'am, then it would be wise for me to instruct my kids to initially address people as such. That said, I would also need to instruct them to respect the individual wishes of the person they are communicating with.

[VeteranMom]

I model it for my kids and that's how they are picking it up. We use "sir" and "ma'am" most when we are out in public and someone is serving us. We might not know the person's name and we use sir and ma'am as a way to address a person.

[TheAutumnOak]

Families that require ma'am/sir are requiring that the children answer questions with yes/no ma'am/sir. That isn't what the children address us by - two different things. Also, my children don't call other adults ma'am/sir, they call them Ms. Susie or Mr. Joe, etc.

 

In my opinion, calling someone simply by their first name implies that the two parties are equal. And, in my opinion, children are not equal to adults. That may very well be a regional thing. It's not saying that children have no value (in fact, their value is immeasurable) but it is being aware that respect is due to your elders. And, you don't have to be elderly to be an elder. So, they would call other adults by their name, but with a Ms. or Mr. attached. They would answer any questions from these adults with a yes/no ma'am/sir. Once again, that shows respect by clarifying that you are addressing someone that you should show respect.

 

 

 

:iagree: Totally

[J-rap]

We don't, but we have some good friends from the south who have taught their children to say it. It sounds very nice and natural with them. I like it. My friend says this is much more common in the south.

[edithcrawley]

I live in the Midwest, and Ma'am and Sir are really only used here in either a customer service context or "Sir, you left your keys behind" context. The kids at church (under 8), address me as Miss Jennifer, and the ones older than that just use my first name. Adults that aren't known as well are called "Mr./Mrs. Lastname" unless they state otherwise. If their last name is particularly complicated, then they'll be called "Mr./Mrs. C" (unless they wish to be called something else). I grew up calling most of my friend's parents "Mr./Mrs. Lastname"

 

Teachers (above preschool/kindergarten) are referred to as "Mr./Mrs./Professor/Dr. Lastname"

 

Around here, most people don't use names in conversation that often unless they need to get somebody's attention at the beginning.

[Haiku]

There seems to be an idea that calling adults Mr./Mrs. Lastname is inherently more polite and that allowing children to call adults by there first names indicates an inherent lack of respect.

 

This simply isn't true.

 

I grew up calling my mom's two best friends Joanne and Tina. I called my dad's best friends Derry and Dave. I was not rude, impolite, or somehow convinced I was an adult. It's just what we did.

 

I really don't like the idea that one way of doing things is inherently superior and that everyone else's way is somehow lacking.

 

If, in your culture, it's polite for kids to call adults Ma'am/Sir and Mr./Mrs. Lastname, that's fine, but in our culture, my kids call my friends by their first names. Implying that somehow your kids are more mannerly and that those of us who wished to be called something other than Sir/Ma'am/Mr./Mrs. Lastname are thwarting the process of instilling manners is both incorrect and pompous.

 

Tara

[stripe]

Implying that somehow your kids are more mannerly and that those of us who wished to be called something other than Sir/Ma'am/Mr./Mrs. Lastname are thwarting the process of instilling manners is both incorrect and pompous.

Indeed. There are many different cultural norms on this.

 

There's also some assumption that calling your parents "ma'am" and "sir" will automatically inculcate more respect, which may or may not be the case.

[susankenny]

I don't know that I agree "completely" with the above. I think respect is being paid to the person who is being addressed or responded to. If that person, regardless of location, finds "Ma'am" or "Sir" untenable, that is their choice. That I believe goes "both ways." So, if I am in the South and the prevading culture is one of Sir's and Ma'am, then it would be wise for me to instruct my kids to initially address people as such. That said, I would also need to instruct them to respect the individual wishes of the person they are communicating with.

 

Well, I don't even think you need to ask your kids to say it. I certainly do not find it rude if kids don't call me ma'am. I also do not expect my kids to address adults that way at all times. My statement is more-so in regard to other children addressing you with ma'am & then you correcting them because it's out of your cultural comfort or norm.

 

I know that's been shared several times on this thread that adults would tell children to not address them in such a way. I think that is creating an unnecessary "hill" so to speak.

 

Susan