TXMary2 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 believe people can change? If so, do you believe in forgiveness and second chances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Sure. But people have to want to change and if there is addiction or long standing habits (even of thinking) involved, then it can be difficult for them to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Rare but possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Yes, people can change… I've noticed though, that sometimes it's ME who has to do the changing, not them. (Just talking about my & my own life here - I was just thinking about this the other day.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Just wanted to point out that forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean second chances. You can forgive someone but realize that they don't have the capacity to be the way you need them to be or do what you need them to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Just wanted to point out that forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean second chances. You can forgive someone but realize that they don't have the capacity to be the way you need them to be or do what you need them to do. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhgillil Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 As a cynic, I am tempted to say no. =) But, really, yes, I believe that people can change, but I do believe it is rare. More often than not, what is perceived as "change" is really just a temporary masking that the person has constructed. I do believe in forgiveness and I do believe in second chances. Forgiveness does not necessitate a second chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I think they can on a smaller scale....I know I have "softened" over the years. I 'think" I have grown more kind, been able to see other points of view, able to try to understand where others may be coming from, less likely to have to be "right".........so I believe those types of changes can be done.....but somethings, more hard-core type stuff, ie phedophiles....with that type of stuff, I am not taking the chance...maybe they did change,but I am putting myself or my children in that situation regardless if a change is announced or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrogMom5 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Second chances, it depends. It's hard work to change, I know, and most people don't want to do it. If someone is sincere, then forgiveness should be given. Second chances depends on what they did. Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 I think they can on a smaller scale....I know I have "softened" over the years. I 'think" I have grown more kind, been able to see other points of view, able to try to understand where others may be coming from, less likely to have to be "right".........so I believe those types of changes can be done.....but somethings, more hard-core type stuff, ie phedophiles....with that type of stuff, I am not taking the chance...maybe they did change,but I am putting myself or my children in that situation regardless if a change is announced or not. This is more what I am talking about. I am not talking about sociopaths, pedophiles etc. People with addictions can go in to recovery, but I am not talking about that either. I am more talking about holding a grudge against someone for a belief they used to hold. Do you believe people that change their mind about things (or seem to) should be given the benefit of doubt or do you just always think of them as the way your first impression of them was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) OP: Has someone wronged you and now is asking for forgiveness? (rhetorical question--I don't expect an answer.) If so, is it that the person has a long history of wronging you and needs to change? OR, was this an anomaly--something done out of character? For example: (and not saying this is your issue, but it's an obvious example) Sometimes people cheat on their spouses over and over again with many partners. There is something in their personality that makes them want to do this and they don't really see it as morally wrong. This sort of person would need to change their basic personality in order to stop cheating. Sometimes people cheat once with one person. They are people who usually have values and morals, but for some reason took leave of their senses and willfully did something that they know is very, very wrong. This person doesn't need to change their basic personality. This person knows they were wrong and made a horrible mistake and will most likely never, ever do it again. They do not need to "change." Rather, they need to come back to their senses. There is hope in this situation. Much hope. If someone has wronged you, is there a history of it? Or was it completely out of character? If there's a history, they might not be able to change. If this was a single mistake, then they probably will not keep wronging you. Edited March 30, 2011 by Garga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Wait a sec--I didn't read your response right above mine. So, you're wondering if someone changes a belief that it's real? Or should you keep thinking that they still believe their first belief? People's beliefs can certainly change. I thought having childbirth w/o medication was downright stupid. Until I had two kids w/o pain medication. By choice. I thought breastfeeding was creepy. I've spent a total of 4 years of my life breastfeeding. I thought that homeschoolers were wack-a-doodles. But here I am. Before I had kids, I used to talk about how children should be raised and make a fool of myself in front of my friends w/ kids. (Because I was wrong about many things regarding raising children.) I really hope that my friends know I've changed my beliefs about raising children and aren't holding grudges for my silly ideas about raising kids. In my 20's I thought things were black and white. But now that I'm in my 30's, I'm seeing that it's mostly grey. I think people's beliefs can change when they find out their original beliefs were wrong or incomplete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 believe people can change? If so, do you believe in forgiveness and second chances? I know that people can change and I know that forgiveness and second chances exist. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Wait a sec--I didn't read your response right above mine. So, you're wondering if someone changes a belief that it's real? Or should you keep thinking that they still believe their first belief? People's beliefs can certainly change. I thought having childbirth w/o medication was downright stupid. Until I had two kids w/o pain medication. By choice. I thought breastfeeding was creepy. I've spent a total of 4 years of my life breastfeeding. I thought that homeschoolers were wack-a-doodles. But here I am. Before I had kids, I used to talk about how children should be raised and make a fool of myself in front of my friends w/ kids. (Because I was wrong about many things regarding raising children.) I really hope that my friends know I've changed my beliefs about raising children and aren't holding grudges for my silly ideas about raising kids. In my 20's I thought things were black and white. But now that I'm in my 30's, I'm seeing that it's mostly grey. I think people's beliefs can change when they find out their original beliefs were wrong or incomplete. :iagree: Before I had kids I was the perfect parent, Before I had to earn a wage I was the perfect worker, Before I was a Christian I was a perfect Christian, Before I was a homeschooling Mom I was the perfect homeschooler... And I could give a list a mile long of things my kids were never going to do :lol: Honestly, in my teens and twenties I was a very shallow self centered person. I was angry much of the time and not at all pleasant to be around. Into my thirties I softened - starting seeing that there are shades of gray. Now in my forties I think I'm more comfortable in my own skin than any other time in my life. I am comfortable with what I believe - I'm not threatened by people who feel differently than I on any subject. I believe I should be slower to anger and impatience and not so quick to judge another person's situation - trying to remind myself I'm only seeing a sliver of that person at any given time. I try to take people and things as I find them - regardless of what I might have read or heard before hand. My father changed. When I was young he was a violent, self destructive abusive alcoholic. In his fifties he met my stepmother and he stopped drinking, started working and was just a lot more pleasant to be around. He was still painfully shy in some situations but I could see him trying. I'm glad I let him know that as he died quite suddenly at 63. I hope people can change. I believe I have. I hope I continue to do so as I get older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 This is more what I am talking about. I am not talking about sociopaths, pedophiles etc. People with addictions can go in to recovery, but I am not talking about that either. I am more talking about holding a grudge against someone for a belief they used to hold. Do you believe people that change their mind about things (or seem to) should be given the benefit of doubt or do you just always think of them as the way your first impression of them was? Well, if people only based their 'beliefs' about me on their first impression of me then they'd believe I love the god of the bible and that I am a Christian and all sorts of other nonsense that no longer applies. People continue to learn as they age, with new knowledge people do change what they know/believe. If you believed there was a snake underneath a rock in your yard, but someone flipped it over and showed you that there was no snake under the rock, would you STILL believe that there was a snake under the rock? Or would you adjust your beliefs to account for the new information? (not trying to be snarky, so please don't read it that way) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I believe that people can but they rarely do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Wait a sec--I didn't read your response right above mine. So, you're wondering if someone changes a belief that it's real? Or should you keep thinking that they still believe their first belief? People's beliefs can certainly change. I thought having childbirth w/o medication was downright stupid. Until I had two kids w/o pain medication. By choice. I thought breastfeeding was creepy. I've spent a total of 4 years of my life breastfeeding. I thought that homeschoolers were wack-a-doodles. But here I am. Before I had kids, I used to talk about how children should be raised and make a fool of myself in front of my friends w/ kids. (Because I was wrong about many things regarding raising children.) I really hope that my friends know I've changed my beliefs about raising children and aren't holding grudges for my silly ideas about raising kids. In my 20's I thought things were black and white. But now that I'm in my 30's, I'm seeing that it's mostly grey. I think people's beliefs can change when they find out their original beliefs were wrong or incomplete. Yes, like this. No one has wonged me, that I am holding a grudge against. I am thinking of myself. What I believed in my 20's is diferent from what I believed three years ago, now what I believe is different from three years ago. I am still black and white about some issues, but mostly I have stopped caring about some things because I have discovered they don't matter to me personally. As I age I am less passionate and judgemental about things, but in places like this (WTM forum) I think we put people in boxes and leave them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter's Moon Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I believe they must WANT to change. Just like a court forcing an alcoholic to AA usually doesn't work, a family member or friend forcing a person to change with guilt won't work (Not saying this is what you are doing.) As for forgiveness and second chances, I believe they can either be done together or separately. You can forgive someone but know not to give them a second chance. Or you can forgive someone and give them the second chance if you feel they won't disappoint/mess up/etc. I've forgiven people, but I've known enough about them and the situation not to give them a second chance. (I don't mean cutting them from my life, just not listening to their promises.) Forgiving them has helped me maintain the relationship, just with some distance. They know they've been forgiven, but they also know if they mess up again the forgiveness may not come as it did before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 This is more what I am talking about. I am not talking about sociopaths, pedophiles etc. People with addictions can go in to recovery, but I am not talking about that either. I am more talking about holding a grudge against someone for a belief they used to hold. Do you believe people that change their mind about things (or seem to) should be given the benefit of doubt or do you just always think of them as the way your first impression of them was? People change their views all the time. My MIL firmly believed that women who wore pants were not *good* christians. She had held that belief for over 40 years, but shared with me that after DH and I started dating that God began to work in her on this issue. Before we'd even celebrated our first anniversary she had done a 180 on this topic. (And her original opinion of me! :D ) If I had not been willing to accept the possibility of MIL changing her mind I would have missed out on this wonderful relationship I now have with my second *mom*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I've changed too much in the last 3 yrs, witnessed changes in others that I never would have dreamed possible to say no. Forgiving doesn't = back in my life though. There are some ppl I just flat out consider unsafe that I will never again have in my home. Addiction issues. Its something we both agree on, our children's safety is not to be risked for someone that may be sober. I've also forgiven and repaired relationships I thought would never, ever happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 believe people can change? Yes If so, do you believe in forgiveness and second chances? Yes Oh wow my dh and I have changed so drastically. It took lots of change and forgiveness for us to even still be married.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Yes, people can change. Yes, I believe in forgiveness, and sometimes in second chances, depending on what the original offense was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girls' Mom Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 believe people can change? If so, do you believe in forgiveness and second chances? Yes, yes and yes! My dh is one. Our marriage is still a marriage because of a second chance and total forgiveness. And he is NOT the man he was 5 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwickimom Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) ABSOLUTELY. People are capable of the most amazing things and I truly believe they can change. I have seen it. Everyone deserves second chances, and sometimes thirds and fourths. :) Edited March 30, 2011 by kwickimom typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 but in places like this (WTM forum) I think we put people in boxes and leave them there. Well, it's really hard to know if someone on a forum has changed their opinions if they don't say so. And if someone was so offensive that you put them on your ignore list and never choose to read their posts then you won't know that they have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cera Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I know that people can change and I know that forgiveness and second chances exist. ;) :iagree: I think people can change if they desire to do so and are willing to work to achieve it. As for forgiveness and second chances, I try to extend to others what I want for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelotmom Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) Just wanted to point out that forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean second chances. You can forgive someone but realize that they don't have the capacity to be the way you need them to be or do what you need them to do. :iagree: A lot people seem to see forgiveness as pretending it never happened. My understanding of forgiveness is that it's more about giving up a desire for retribution. If someone abused me, for instance (because I've seen that particular situation on more than one occasion, where someone says "If you were truly a Christian, you'd let me have access to my grandchildren regardless of whatever I did to you because you forgive me). I may forgive them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to let them babysit my kids. That's not punishment - it's protection of people I'm responsible for. For me, second chances depends totally on what the original issue was and what reason I have to believe that they've actually changed. This is more what I am talking about. I am not talking about sociopaths, pedophiles etc. People with addictions can go in to recovery, but I am not talking about that either. I am more talking about holding a grudge against someone for a belief they used to hold. Do you believe people that change their mind about things (or seem to) should be given the benefit of doubt or do you just always think of them as the way your first impression of them was? Yes, I definitely believe this. If someone came to me and said "Hey, I was a jerk to you in the past. I've come to think differently since and I'm sorry about that" I'd certainly give them a second chance, and I'd have respect for them for saying it. (Though again, it depends somewhat on the situation. If this happens from the same person on different issues frequently, or they're the type who waffles a lot, I'll be wary of how serious they are.) Edited March 30, 2011 by ocelotmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 believe people can change? If so, do you believe in forgiveness and second chances? Yes, I believe people can change. I believe forgiveness is actually more for the person who was wronged than the person who committed the wrong. I certainly believe in second, third, fourth chances--but there's a difference between being wise about boundaries with someone who has done something to you, and being stupid about it. I do believe I need to demonstrate the grace I'd hope to receive if I had done something wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 believe people can change? If so, do you believe in forgiveness and second chances? Yes I do, and yes I do. However, and yes this is a BUT, just because I forgive doesn't mean something hasn't changed between us. IOW, I don't believe that every type of situation that ends in forgiveness automatically assumes the entire event should be forgotten and things return to the way they were before. Hurts can run deep. Hence my sig line. I've never understood how someone can say something really hurtful on purpose and expect an apology to erase it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Well, it's really hard to know if someone on a forum has changed their opinions if they don't say so. And if someone was so offensive that you put them on your ignore list and never choose to read their posts then you won't know that they have changed. That's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciyates Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I am so happy about the changes I have seen in myself over the years. I am not the person I was and that is a good thing. I try to forgive and mostly forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLG Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Heck yes! Takes way too much energy to be angry, hold grudges and worry about other people's opinions. Anyone can change if they want to and are sincere. Forgiveness is mandatory in this life - it's a two way street! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Yes, I do believe that people can change, absolutely. Forgiveness does not necessarily grant a second chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Inna* Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Yes. I believe in both. Yes, yes and yes! My dh is one. Our marriage is still a marriage because of a second chance and total forgiveness. And he is NOT the man he was 5 years ago. Same here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Sure. But people have to want to change and if there is addiction or long standing habits (even of thinking) involved, then it can be difficult for them to change. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassyscrapperinid Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Yes, I believe in forgiveness. But forgiving someone doesn't equate with forgetting, IMNSHO. I forgive someone because I don't enjoy carrying all that garbage around with me. I remember because I don't enjoy falling into the same pit - over and over again. :iagree: definitely... if I could keep that in mind, forgiving would be easier. As far as if people can change- ummmm yeah, people can change but in my experience it rarely happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I marvel at this question. I can not name one dog, let alone one person I know that hasn't developed or devoloved during his/her lifetime. (Some go in both directions, but it still doesn't come out to a net zero of "no change.") What does stay exactly the same? Even a car rusts and changes, which is far less than any human being. For those of you who do know such people (and I believe you do), wow, they must really be wooden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinF Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Of course people can change. They do it all the time. The real question is whether they want to change badly enough, I think. Yes, I believe in forgiveness. But forgiving someone doesn't equate with forgetting, IMNSHO. I forgive someone because I don't enjoy carrying all that garbage around with me. I remember because I don't enjoy falling into the same pit - over and over again. This is my opinion exactly. I would also point out that I don't forget so I can keep someone else from falling into the pit that I just got pulled out of so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Yes, of course people can change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratia271 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 believe people can change? If so, do you believe in forgiveness and second chances? I believe people can change, and I believe in forgiveness and second chances. When it comes to broken relationships, change has to come because the individual sees the need to change and wants to change for that reason. Attempting to change for someone else doesn't work long term IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) I am in the minority on this topic. I think people are constantly changing and are rarely stagnant. These same people can continue to be tempted by the same things throughout life though, and thus continue on the same path. ie Lets make up a story about a kid who is raised to think stealing is okay by his parents. He may come into a conscious as he ages and realize that stealing is wrong, and may be even feel guilt about it. But....he may continue to steal....just with guilt this time. A definite, moral change, but by not choosing to alter his path, no change in behavior is seen. What if this kid turns 18 and realizes, that now if he gets caught, there will be more severe consequences? Between the guilt and the potential consequences, he stops stealing. I think that for change to occur, the the temptations must either change in and of themselves.... or be removed entirely (even if this is just by the consequences out weighing the benefit). Edited March 31, 2011 by Tap, tap, tap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readinmom Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Yes, I believe in second chances and forgiveness. Whether or not people can change, I don't know...sometimes the changes that I want to see in other people are just that. The things that bother me most about them, but might not be significant to them at all. We are the only ones in the family with younger children, and my in-laws rarely have contact with them. It bothers me because it hurts my kids, but I don't think at this point in their lives it makes a difference. They're too busy doing their own thing. I forgive them, but I don't think it will ever change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YarnAddict Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Sure. But people have to want to change and if there is addiction or long standing habits (even of thinking) involved, then it can be difficult for them to change. Yes, that. :iagree: I have a family member who is an addict and he is currently incarcerated. He says he has changed, but I will ALWAYS have my guard up. I am praying I find forgiveness in my heart for him, but I know forgiveness doesn't have to equal me being stupid... I'll always be watchful. He can change if he wants to, but it won't be easy. Sorry for the mini-vent there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~FireFly~ Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'm waiting and praying for 18yos to change, to want to change, because I can want him to change all I want, but if he doesn't want to change it's not going to happen. Our family has been round and round with him and his lifestyle (not safe). Forgiveness is for the person forgiving as much as for the person asking for it. Thank you all for this thread/topic. Hope things work out for the original posted. Peace and Blessings, ~Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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