Calling atheists and agnostics: question from my kids

[JoyfulMama]

We received an anonymous gift. One of my children was frustrated with not being able to thank the giver. We talked about why the gift was given anonymously, and then we thanked God for both the gift and the generosity of the giver.

THEN I was asked the following question: Do atheists and agnostics offer thanks when they receive an anonymous gift?

 

Please no debate here. Please keep things polite and kind in order to allow for understanding of differing belief systems.

[kalanamak]

No. I ponder about who might be the sender, and think about a sneaky way to send something back. I think nice thoughts about people in general.

 

I do use the phrase "count my lucky stars" quite a bit, but it is just a saying.

[Barb_]

I would imagine I would smile and thank the gift giver in my head, in the way you do when an unexpected check falls out of a mailed birthday card. If I were ever receive an anonymous gift, that is. Lucky you! How nice!

 

Barb

[LibraryLover]

The goodness of humans is endless. That's a lovely thing to be grateful about/for which to be grateful. ;)

Edited March 29, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Shawna in Texas]

Well, this probably won't be that helpful. :D It might create more philosophical questions.

 

If I were to receive an anonymous gift, such as, I don't know, maybe a box full of next years curriculum, or really expensive pillows (gosh, I need new pillows!), I would be very thankful for them. To express my thanks, rather than thanking God, or even a general thanks to the universe, which would be a habitual 'thank you', I would probably feel compelled to express my thankfulness by some sort of action. I would probably feel compelled to make someone else happy.

 

But, really, that need to want to give to someone else isn't a religious, or irreligious thing, hence the 'probably won't be helpful'. I didn't want it to come across as irreligious people only give because Christians can just thank God, when Christians give as well. Atheists just skip the 'thanking God' part.

[freethinkermama]

That's a good question!

I don't "give thanks", but I experience a profound gratitude that makes me want to spread what I have with others. I've been the recipient of anonymous gifts and been the giver myself. I feel fortunate to have friends and to be able to be a friend.

And, if I ever find out who was generous to me in anonymity, I will thank _them_. :)

[Audrey]

We received an anonymous gift. One of my children was frustrated with not being able to thank the giver. We talked about why the gift was given anonymously, and then we thanked God for both the gift and the generosity of the giver.

THEN I was asked the following question: Do atheists and agnostics offer thanks when they receive an anonymous gift?

 

Please no debate here. Please keep things polite and kind in order to allow for understanding of differing belief systems.

 

 

Not in a prayer sense, no. Of course, I would wonder who had sent the gift and in my mind I may thank the person and wish them well, but not knowing from whence it had truly come, there is no one to thank audibly.

 

However, I believe in paying kindnesses back to the universe in general - a "pay it forward" idea, so to speak.

[Anita in NC]

When we have received things anonymously I pass along the good deed. Sort of a pay it forward type thing.

 

People have paid for our meals before in restaurants. I realize that is something that they wanted to do for whatever reason and it was very kind of them to do.

 

I will then make a donation to a charity for that amount since I had already spent that money in my mind and in hopes that the donation can help someone else. Does that make sense?

[Truscifi]

Not in a prayer sense, no. Of course, I would wonder who had sent the gift and in my mind I may thank the person and wish them well, but not knowing from whence it had truly come, there is no one to thank audibly.

 

However, I believe in paying kindnesses back to the universe in general - a "pay it forward" idea, so to speak.

 

:iagree: with the bolded in particular. (bolding mine)

[yellowperch]

I would feel enormously happy that such generosity exists (especially if the gift were the new surf board I've been eyeing). I would consider myself tagged, if you will, with good fortune and therefore compelled to pass it on in someway or another. I think of it this way: if we really are all we have then we better take good care of each other.

[mhgillil]

I am a Christian now, but I grew up agnostic (and for a while in my teens, atheist) and I will agree with previous posters that I would do a pay it forward sort thing, or offer up a general "thanks" towards humanity and whatever else I thought might be out there.

[JoyfulMama]

Thank you all for the great answers! I will share them with my children over breakfast this morning.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I don't ascribe to any particular religion, but I do believe in some power greater than humans, so I would say a thanks to that power for putting the gift-giver in the universe. I also would be inclined to pay it forward.

[nd293]

Do atheists and agnostics offer thanks when they receive an anonymous gift?

 

I'd be deeply appreciative for the quiet good in the world, when so often we see more obvious evidence of the bad (e.g. on the news). I think that's a form of giving thanks. And I'd probably try and do something practical - pass the good on in some way - make a donation to a charitable organisation, etc - another way I'd show my appreciation to the unknown giver.

[Peela]

Yes, I would give thanks- not to the specifically Christian God, but to the Creator of the universe and every one of us, which I call different things on different days- Existence, Nature, God, Great Spirit, The Great Mother.

[Lady Florida.]

Yes one can be thankful without thanking a deity.

[radiobrain]

I agree with all of the previous posters.

[EKS]

Yes one can be thankful without thanking a deity.

 

This.

[Desert Rat]

I am thankful, but without thanking a diety. I pay it forward. We have had the opportunity over the last 18 months to receive the kindness of strangers while dh was laid off. A few times these were anonymous. We were enormously grateful! And while we couldn't "pay" it forward, I made sure my elderly clients had cookies and our neighbors got apple butter at Christmas time. So on.

The best way, I think, to show thankfulness is to be kind and generous to others. Keep the cycle going.

[jujsky]

If someone offered me an anonymous gift, I would feel gratitude, would carry that feeling on with me for days, and would probably do my best to do a random act of kindness to someone else in an effort to pay it forward.

[JoyfulMama]

Yes it is possible to be thankful for something AND be an atheist/agnostic.

 

Yes one can be thankful without thanking a deity.

 

This.

 

Respectfully, this was not what the question was. I in no way tried to insinuate that you had to believe in a diety to be thankful. I thought I had made that clear.

[chiguirre]

Do atheists and agnostics offer thanks when they receive an anonymous gift?

 

 

 

Personally, no, because there's no one there to thank. I would feel gratitude just as I do for other good things I receive (a beautiful day, a cold glass of water when I'm thirsty, goodnight kisses from my kids, etc).

 

I'd do my best to brighten someone else's day when I get a chance.

[EKS]

Respectfully, this was not what the question was. I in no way tried to insinuate that you had to believe in a diety to be thankful. I thought I had made that clear.

 

You asked if we offered thanks. That is a state of being thankful. I thought it was just a question of semantics. Did you mean do we actually say "thank you" to someone or something?

[Jenny in Florida]

The goodness of humans is endless. That's a lovely thing to be grateful about/for which to be grateful. ;)

 

Yep.

 

Although I'm more agnostic than athiest, because I do tend to think there's "something," kind of like the Force. I try to add goodness to the world's supply, and I'm grateful when a little bit of it makes its way back to me.

[Jenny in Florida]

To express my thanks, rather than thanking God, or even a general thanks to the universe, which would be a habitual 'thank you', I would probably feel compelled to express my thankfulness by some sort of action. I would probably feel compelled to make someone else happy.

 

This, too. I'm kind of a "pay-it-forward" sort of person. I've been helped so many times over the years by other people, and I make a point of being that person for others.

[Karen in CO]

This, too. I'm kind of a "pay-it-forward" sort of person. I've been helped so many times over the years by other people, and I make a point of being that person for others.

 

Me too. Instead of just thanking God when something good happens, I am thankful. It is a part of who I am. I show my thankfulness by helping others which also a part of who I am.

[JoyfulMama]

You asked if we offered thanks. That is a state of being thankful. I thought it was just a question of semantics. Did you mean do we actually say "thank you" to someone or something?

 

My wording could have been clearer, but then I may not have needed to ask the question. Those who don't believe in a diety wouldn't offer thanks to a diety, but the question was to look beyond that difference. ;)

I would think most people would be thankful to receive an unexpected gift. Do you do anything as a result of being thankful, may be a better way to phrase it.

Many have answered, and I appreciate all of the answers. I am not trying to divide those who do and don't believe in a diety, and certainly not implying that only those who believe in a diety can be thankful. Wow, what a horrible way to think of humankind.

[OH_Homeschooler]

It would put me in a good mood. I'd probably gush all over Facebook and Twitter and message boards, and that would hopefully put other people in a good mood. When people are in a good mood, they are nicer to others.

[Jennifer3141]

It would put me in a good mood. I'd probably gush all over Facebook and Twitter and message boards, and that would hopefully put other people in a good mood. When people are in a good mood, they are nicer to others.

 

This too. :)

 

I wouldn't "thank" anyone per se, because I'd have no idea who to thank. I would be thankful for whichever friend did that and send them some mental "woo." :D

[LidiyaDawn]

You asked if we offered thanks. That is a state of being thankful. I thought it was just a question of semantics. Did you mean do we actually say "thank you" to someone or something?

 

I think those are two different things - actually OFFERING thanks (an action) and BEing thankful (a state of being/feeling) …. and I don't in any way think the OP was implying that non-Christians couldn't BE thankful. This was an anonymous gift, so there was no specific human to which they could OFFER their thanks… they OFFERED their thanks to God for the anonymous gift, and her children (note that - it was the KIDS who were curious about others) wondered if people who do not believe in God had some other way of OFFERING thanks for an anonymous gift like that….

 

thanking the universe… thanking humanity in general… choosing to "pay it forward"… those sorts of things.

 

Bringing in other beliefs, some answers might have been along the lines of reciting a chant, singing a song, lighting a candle, thanking a different deity, etc etc --- but generally, Atheists and Agnostics don't have a deity.

 

I think it's great when kids aren't afraid to ask questions! :D

[Night Elf]

Yes it is possible to be thankful for something AND be an atheist/agnostic.

 

This exactly. The question surprised me because it intends an assumption that without a God telling you how to act or what to think, it's not possible to be good person or experience moral feelings. That's a mind-boggling concept for me.

 

FWIW, I love seeing many people respond that they would pass the favor along. So is thanking God a good replacement for such an act? I would be surprised to see anyone reply yes to that question, or at least it would make me sad.

[Mejane]

FWIW, I love seeing many people respond that they would pass the favor along. So is thanking God a good replacement for such an act? I would be surprised to see anyone reply yes to that question, or at least it would make me sad.

 

I wondered this as well.

[astrid]

I wondered this as well.

 

 

....as did I.

 

Be appreciative, be thankful, and always pay it forward mindfully and sincerely.

 

astrid

[OH_Homeschooler]

This exactly. The question surprised me because it intends an assumption that without a God telling you how to act or what to think, it's not possible to be good person or experience moral feelings. That's a mind-boggling concept for me.

 

This thread didn't bug me but the bolded part is a big pet peeve of mine. I hate it when people ask how atheists could possibly have any sense of morality. It's easy, IMO: Just follow the golden rule. That covers pretty much everything!

[LidiyaDawn]

The question surprised me because it intends an assumption that without a God telling you how to act or what to think, it's not possible to be good person or experience moral feelings. That's a mind-boggling concept for me.

 

 

 

How are people getting this out of the OP's kids' question? (and it's the KIDS that were wondering something) …. she didn't say anything like that! She asked, basically, if there was something that Atheists/Agnostics would do *in place of* thanking a deity for an anonymous gift. The underlined, I think, is important here --- she didn't ask "so do Atheists know how to thank their friends for gifts?" :tongue_smilie:

[Night Elf]

How are people getting this out of the OP's kids' question? (and it's the KIDS that were wondering something) …. she didn't say anything like that! She asked, basically, if there was something that Atheists/Agnostics would do *in place of* thanking a deity for an anonymous gift. The underlined, I think, is important here --- she didn't ask "so do Atheists know how to thank their friends for gifts?" :tongue_smilie:

 

Whether it was an adult or children who asked the question is entirely irrelevant. :001_huh:

 

The OP asked this question: "Do atheists and agnostics offer thanks when they receive an anonymous gift?"

 

To me, this is the same question as, How can an atheist/agnostic be thankful if they have no one to thank for the gift?

 

Honestly, if someone answered a simple 'No' without any other explanation, how would the religious person interpret that? Back when I was a full religiously minded person (and I'm not up to talking about my current status), I would have immediately felt compelled to think very poorly of that person. It seems negative like the person isn't grateful and obviously doesn't even care, and therefore the whole gift-giving was a total waste of time, effort, and thought. So the question cannot be a simple yes/no question. It begs an explanation so the person doesn't appear ungrateful.

 

My response was to provide that thought that someone could indeed be thankful for the help without having someone or some One to personally thank.

[~Amanda~]

This would be a "pay it forward" moment. I can't thank the giver, but I can offer the same service in return to someone else

[Satori]

I'd be very grateful and would be saying "thank you, thank you" silently in my head to the anonymous giver. I'd probably tell a few people about the unexpected generosity.

 

I'd feel great that there are such wonderful people out there, and in turn, I'd "pay it forward". Moments like this make me continually trying to be the type of person I would like the whole world to be.

[LidiyaDawn]

How are people getting this out of the OP's kids' question? (and it's the KIDS that were wondering something) …. she didn't say anything like that! She asked, basically, if there was something that Atheists/Agnostics would do *in place of* thanking a deity for an anonymous gift. The underlined, I think, is important here --- she didn't ask "so do Atheists know how to thank their friends for gifts?" :tongue_smilie:

 

Whether it was an adult or children who asked the question is entirely irrelevant. :001_huh:

 

The OP asked this question: "Do atheists and agnostics offer thanks when they receive an anonymous gift?"

 

To me, this is the same question as, How can an atheist/agnostic be thankful if they have no one to thank for the gift?

 

Honestly, if someone answered a simple 'No' without any other explanation, how would the religious person interpret that? Back when I was a full religiously minded person (and I'm not up to talking about my current status), I would have immediately felt compelled to think very poorly of that person. It seems negative like the person isn't grateful and obviously doesn't even care, and therefore the whole gift-giving was a total waste of time, effort, and thought. So the question cannot be a simple yes/no question. It begs an explanation so the person doesn't appear ungrateful.

 

My response was to provide that thought that someone could indeed be thankful for the help without having someone or some One to personally thank.

 

I think knowing where the question comes from is important in the overall picture, and I think the entire post (and subsequent posts) make the situation more clear than just pulling out a few words.

 

(I'm not just looking at from a Christian perspective, for what it's worth - I grew up mostly in an Atheist family…so I can view it from 'that side' or whatever too. I wouldn't have been offended as an atheist/agnostic, nor would/do I think badly of anyone as a Christian.)

 

The bolded questions that you wrote there are two ENTIRELY different things to me….

 

I just don't see the hidden negative implications or whatever (and the OP even clarified that there weren't any)…I see some curious kids, wondering if there's an abstract 'something' that people without a deity might thank for an anonymous gift. Like I said earlier - thanking the universe, mankind, the spirit of generosity, whatever…. (as there's no human to thank)

 

What if the OP's kids had asked what/who a Buddhist might thank for an anonymous gift? Or what/who a Wiccan might thank? Or a Taoist? Or a [insert whatever here] ….It's just an innocent kid question about where the thankfulness is *directed* when there isn't a person or a deity to direct it toward.

[secular_mom]

I wondered this as well.

:iagree:

Paying it forward just keeps the good energy flowing.

[Night Elf]

The bolded questions that you wrote there are two ENTIRELY different things to me….

 

Differing opinions. Our beliefs and opinions are formed by our experiences. My understanding of the question is different from yours. I'd be very surprised if many threads on this board all had the same responses.

[Lady Florida.]

You asked if we offered thanks. That is a state of being thankful. I thought it was just a question of semantics. Did you mean do we actually say "thank you" to someone or something?

 

This was how I read it too, which is why I gave the answer I did.

 

My wording could have been clearer, but then I may not have needed to ask the question. Those who don't believe in a diety wouldn't offer thanks to a diety, but the question was to look beyond that difference. ;)

I would think most people would be thankful to receive an unexpected gift. Do you do anything as a result of being thankful, may be a better way to phrase it.

Many have answered, and I appreciate all of the answers.I am not trying to divide those who do and don't believe in a diety, and certainly not implying that only those who believe in a diety can be thankful. Wow, what a horrible way to think of humankind.

 

 

Unfortunately there are many who do think that way (the bolded). Many of us atheists often hear, among other things, "How can you see beauty in nature if you don't believe it was designed?", "How can you be moral without a god?", and "How can you be thankful without a god to thank?" I did not intend my answer to be snarky, but was coming from an I've-heard-this-question-a-million-times mindset. I apologize if it sounded snarky.

 

Thank you for clarifying. I will say that I try to pay it forward. And as others said, I would just say a silent thank you to the anonymous donor.

[Audrey]

This was how I read it too, which is why I gave the answer I did.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately there are many who do think that way (the bolded). Many of us atheists often hear, among other things, "How can you see beauty in nature if you don't believe it was designed?", "How can you be moral without a god?", and "How can you be thankful without a god to thank?" I did not intend my answer to be snarky, but was coming from an I've-heard-this-question-a-million-times mindset. I apologize if it sounded snarky.

 

Thank you for clarifying. I will say that I try to pay it forward. And as others said, I would just say a silent thank you to the anonymous donor.

 

 

Kathy, I know exactly what you mean. There are many people on this board who, if they asked the same questions JoyfulMama asked, I would suspect their motives and would probably either refuse to rise to their bait, or if I was in an extra-p*ssy mood would reply with snark guns a'blazin'.

 

However, I do not believe the OP is not one of those types. I do believe her question is innocent.

[freethinkermama]

The "being thankful" and "giving thanks" is a question I wrestle with, and there's more than semantics.

 

When I was a Christian, I'd say "Oh, Thank God," or I'd pray and say "thank you." And at Thanksgiving, I'd give thanks to God for the good things I had been "blessed" with.

 

Now, as an atheist, I still experience gratitude and a feeling of "thankfulness" to . . .reality, or whatever. There's really no word for it because "thank" is a transitive verb that takes an object (which is the grammarian's way to say, you need to thank _someone_, you don't just "thank" :)).

 

However, I still feel that same gratitude, there's just no recipient, necessarily. So, for me, it's almost sort of a trap (though I certainly don't believe the OP intended it so). To come back with the comment, "How can you be thankful, if you don't have anyone to be thankful to?" is reasonable, but can also be a way of saying, "see, even the un-believers have a God given sense of gratitude, and want to give thanks, even though they refuse to believe" if that's the way one wants to spin it.

 

Again, not to cause wrinkles, but just trying to unpack this idea some more from my own head because it has been something I've been thinking about.

 

A friend of mine, last year, at Thanksgiving on her FB page said, "I'm sad for those who don't believe in God. They must be so sad not to have anyone to be thankful to."

 

I've not completely "outed" myself and my atheism yet, but I took the opportunity to say. "That's sweet. But we're just fine, and we're quite happy anyway! Thanks for thinking of us." She, of course, was shocked (we had been Bible study leaders together), but it was a good way to out myself little by little and hopefully be a little reminder that "unbelievers" aren't some horrible, sad people. We just don't believe. ;)

 

That's more than the OP intended, but I was thinking about the same issues others brought up.

 

Cheers!

[freethinkermama]

I think I understand what you are saying. I have thoughts like these as well.

 

But really a good feeling is a good feeling whatever a person wants to call it. If something goes your way you feel happy about it and you can say that is some sort of thankfulness, happiness, contentment, etc.

 

And no unbelievers (hate this term) aren't evil freakish people. They want the same things as anyone else. Heck, I'd love to believe there was a god. That would probably make my life easier. But I don't and that is just the way it is.

 

Re: "'unbelievers'" (hate this term)"

 

Hee. Yeah, it's one of "those" words that people have a lot of feelings about. I prefer "apostate" and wear it proudly. I don't mind "unbeliever," though. I do like atheist because it scares people, and they always seem surprised someone who "seems like a Christian" wouldn't even be a deist. (I started a new job several weeks ago, and this was a comment from a co-worker).

 

But, overall, I like what Sam Harris says about the word "atheism".

 

"Atheism is not a philosophy; It is not even a view of the world; It is simply an admission of the obvious.

In fact, “atheism†is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a “non-astrologer†or a “non-alchemist.â€

We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle."

 

The quote goes on, but I think it would bring down the Wrath to continue it.

[Audrey]

I now tell people "I'm not religious". That oddly satisfies people and freaks them out less.

 

 

I do that, too. It seems to keep the "I'll pray for you"s down to a minimum.

[JoyfulMama]

Kathy, I know exactly what you mean. There are many people on this board who, if they asked the same questions JoyfulMama asked, I would suspect their motives and would probably either refuse to rise to their bait, or if I was in an extra-p*ssy mood would reply with snark guns a'blazin'.

 

However, I do not believe the OP is not one of those types. I do believe her question is innocent.

 

THANK YOU, AUDREY!!!!!

 

I am always very nervous about posting on here, as I know there are a WIDE variety of folks, which can be great, but can also cause threads to go astray...

 

Thank you all for your input.

[freethinkermama]

I think it was a good question!

[secular_mom]

A friend of mine, last year, at Thanksgiving on her FB page said, "I'm sad for those who don't believe in God. They must be so sad not to have anyone to be thankful to."

 

I am thankful to my husband for his commitment and hard work as a Sailor, husband, father, son, brother, nephew, uncle, cousin, grandson, etc.

I am thankful to the farmers who grow our food, and the harvesters (sometimes they are different people), the people involved in packaging and transporting our food, the stockers who stock the store shelves working such a hard shift (my husband did this before we were married). I am thankful to so many people for so many things it's impossible to even list them all here, much less thank all those individuals that I'll never have contact with. It's not that there is no one to thank, it's just that we aren't always able to direct our thanks to the source.

[Lady Florida.]

I do like atheist because it scares people,

 

I like the term atheist, but not for the shock value. I recently had a nice PM conversation with someone on the board about this. I would love to see the term become a normal, not shocking, description. After all, I'm just telling people I'm a non-theist.

 

I think Sam Harris is right, but in the U.S. at least, people are often identified by their beliefs. I'd love to be able to tell people I'm an atheist and have them not even blink. And I think (or hope) the more the word is used, the more acceptable it will become.