I spent 20 years as certain as I could be that I was right, but still considered that I could be wrong. Now, I think I'm right too, but it's not worth my time. It's like asking myself, "what if the color that I understand blue is not the same blue that others see, but our brains imagine the same blue differently." Why waste my time on this when I already spent half of my life on it? But, sure, let's just say that every time I see a religious post on the board I spend 5 seconds thinking about an so-called "after life", I suppose that's fair enough :) I don't believe any of us will ever "know" what's after life. I don't think there's anything.

I grew up in the West. 13 streets, 13 churches. Met an atheist for the first time at 13. Didn't meet another until college--as far as I knew. Just because you only met one Christian in school didn't mean there weren't tons of theists all around you. Christians aren't the only theists around.

*NOT TRYING TO DERAIL!* Promise! Just wanted to nod. I wonder about that too. When I was in the hospital once, a woman came by to give comfort care foot massages. It was a wonderful half-hour we spent. Chatting about everything and the joy of a foot-rub on top of it. As much as I would try to be grateful for a religious person, whose job is religion, to come and comfort me, it would never be far from my mind that their major concern for me is to get me converted to their god so their god won't send me to everlasting (or perhaps only temporal--whatever, who cares? :)) punishment. It's something I've been dealing with and thinking about lately, that's just why I mention it here. It a country that is strongly religious, it can be hard sometimes to be not. But, maybe comfort masseuses, rather than chaplains, would be a good option for non-religious folks in hospitals :)

Ah! That's enlightening, then! I'd have to think more on that. If the groups have the money to do that, fine. They should be provided with the appropriate space for whatever they can host. And no one should be forced to attend.

It's a "deal with the devil" for sure ;)

Hmm. Well, atheism and agnosticism aren't faiths. However, where this move comes from is a large faith-free event that was nixed at the last minute at Fort Bragg. There was an enormous Evangelical event (called "Rock the Fort"), which received military money last year and brought in Billy Graham. Several soldiers who did not were reprimanded. This year, an atheist soldier got the backing of Fort Bragg to host an atheist/skeptic/faith-free event, inviting atheist thinkers, musicians, and comediens from all over the world, and then it was basically called off because of last-minute restrictions put on the show. They weren't given any funds (which the Evangelical group was), and they were provided with a venue that wouldn't support the numbers of people that were to show up, etc. You can read all about it at Rockbeyondbelief.com A link which provides the best details is here http://rockbeyondbelief.com/2011/03/07/demand-equal-treatment-for-the-armys-non-religious-soldiers/ This move (to get the atheist/agnostic group labeled as a faith group) is simply to get the recognition that religious groups get (which up to this point has been preferential). If religious groups can get funds from the military to promote their faith, surely non-religious military people shouldn't be denied the same sorts of events that promote skepticism and reason. I seriously doubt you'd find a single atheist/agnostic among those starting this group who would say that their non-belief is a religion. They just have to go by these guidelines in order to have the same support religions have. My 2 cents

Ooh! The Well Trained Mind is my homeschooling Bible :) It was exactly what I wanted, but didn't knew existed. I had no word for Classical Education when I first had children, but by the time mine were old enough to formally school, SWB held my hand through that book!

My guess? We're going to hell. Of course, perhaps I'm wrong and the OP will come in and explain it herself. I'm not coming back in to this thread either, I'm packing for my trip down below :)

Thanks! My kids love these cams--this time of year, especially! :)

Edited to answer the question here-- to make a long story short--I was 13. Shoot, also, I see this is for present believers. Sorry to have intruded. Two years ago, I would have still been a believer, so perhaps this is still . . .something useful. Here's the rest of my winding post :) I did not grow up in a Christian home. My mother took me to a mainline church several times a year, and when I was born again my understanding was that she wasn't a Christian. My best friend shared the gospel with me, and I tearfully accepted Jesus Christ as my savior. I clearly remember praying, "Thank you, Jesus. I know that you died for my sins and I could never deserve that." It was the culmination of many years of questions, including "Jesus, why did you die on the cross? What does it mean that you died for me? Would I have died on a cross if you had not?" It was a life-changing moment for me. From that day forwar, I was a fervent, passionate follower. I felt like a door had been suddenly opened on me, and was filled with a Spirit that helped me do the right things and comfort me when I was sad. At 13 years of age, I began going, to my friend's church, Wednesday church. Reading my Bible daily and praying. I was so amazed by the simplicity of the gospel, I was sure that everyone would immediately believe in Jesus if only they heard the way I had. If I had had access to religious tracts, I would have been an ardent tracter. I spent the next 20 years loving and serving Jesus. As an missionary, Bible study leader, and mother.

This is a common evangelistic proposition invented by Pascal, called Pascal's Wager, or Pascal's Gambet. You can Wiki. There are all sorts of sites that discuss the merits and flaws of the proposition.

Ah, Pascal's Wager. Passe, I'm afraid. And, if the Egyptians were correct, your soul will be eaten by Ammit when you die. I'm sure you feel no more threat of that than I do being thrown into the fire by your god. :) You may draw whatever conclusions you like there.

I'm an atheist, and I conduct myself morally because I feel compassion and a sense of responsibility to other individuals, living beings, and our planet. If someone can't do that without a god, I feel relieved for them to follow one. They obviously need an exterior conscience, and other human beings need to be protected from them. That's my response every time I'm asked this question. I don't know what happens when people die, but I tend to think it's the end. That's what I put in the poll.

There's a lot to unpack here, Ravin. I have plenty of thought, but need a little time to think through them and come up with any sort of coherent response :) I'll come back to it. But I want you to know that I'm certainly thinking, and have some of the same issues.

Is anyone getting the new Gmail motion? ;) check out Google!

I feel for you, Shari. I was really glad my children were young enough that when we left, they got over it pretty quickly. There were some sad weeks, and one of my children was worried about going to Hell (and we were a saved-by-grace sort of family!--doesn't matter though, Hell is scary and it's a great stick). What surprised me what that my oldest was relieved. "Oh, good," she said, "I had a hard time believing all of that anyway." Two years previously, I'd have been beside myself with grief to think my children wouldn't believe. Now, I'm just relieved.

I can appreciate that perspective. To me, the difference is the Biblical God can simply alleviate the suffering of millions of dying children right now by simply willing it. You can't. Even if you took all of your money, and left your home and tried to get to those children and save them, you couldn't. "God" can.

Yep. That was what I believed too. :D

I tend to think so too. I tend to think it would be more of an "experiential" event, not necessarily rationality that would get them there (to theism or deism, I mean). But, I could be wrong.

Sorry, doesn't change my point. But, now I know, if you're mean, you're not a Christian. Got it!

It's not always easy to "walk away"! Plenty of apostates I've talked to have said it's the hardest thing they've ever done. Depression, fear of hell, loss of friends, an entire foundation of one's life--gone. It's terrifying. It's not easy. That's not something most devout people willingly go through. Many leave because they realize their religion is not true and they can't force themselves to believe again. That's hard, that's scary. People who have really based their entire existence on their faith rarely saunter away. While people may also point to things that pushed them out the door: hypocrisy, pain, etc. the point comes down to "I don't believe anymore". I think that's what people forget. Not, "I don't believe in Jesus because my Sunday School teacher was mean." But, "I don't believe in Jesus because, despite what Josh McDowell and other say, there's no real basis for believing in the Bible or his supernaturalness. Oh, and I began to question that based on the behavior of people who claimed to know him."

*feeling the love * :001_smile:

That must be a rhetorical question. ;)

nm

Thanks for replying. :)